I was wondering how copyright laws worked in this case

OK, so it's illegal to make a direct resin copy of a kit part and sell it, but at some point does it become so modified that the law no longer applies? And forget about the licensing agreements needed with the 'real' companies like Ford or Volk or whatever for now.

For example, is somebody modifies a convertible version of a car into a coupe, can they cast the body and sell it? Or if you modify athe original part to the point that it's no longer recognizable as the original car, but it started out as that basic part, such as a custom hot-rod or an engine and tranny setup for a car?

Also, if you want to do that, do you have to secure permission from the original manufacturer, or can you just sell it and give them credit for the original and royalties? I am trying to compare this to music and movies, but the two are kind of different: With music, I don't think you have to have permission as long as you credit and pay the original artist, because you are technically using the published music and lyrics (Like Weird Al doesn't need permission to do parodies, or another ban doesn't have to get permission to do a cover or a song, as long as they give credit and royalties). With movies it might be different, you are modifying the material they have actually produced, such as the case with that guy editing movies of their dirty content (Which now appears to be OK, but I don't know if the new law would only apply to objectionable content, or if you could just totally re-arrange a movie on your own).

I don't really have anything planned for this, just kind of curious about it (And it might come in handy if I ever make something good enough that people would want copies of).

This is a good topic. I am currently making molds to make new resin parts of some hard to find items and some custom pieces I have scratch fabricated myself. I don't want to get sued or anything over it if I decide I want to start selling some of these items on Ebay. Anyone know a little more about this?

hmm i think you might be able to find a loophole like this. if you make say, an MSD ignition box, it may look like an MSD box, but just call it an ignition box. or, i scratchbuilt a manifold for a buddy of mine who is replicating his car. it is an edelbrock performer manifold. i could simply say it is an aftermarket intake for a 5.0 mustang kit. i beleive that would work. You should get in contact with fly on the wall. he is SAS and he makes aftermarket seats such as corbeau and such. he should be able to shed some light

2 examples:

For my first example, my personal work (completely scratch built) is making a transkit for the corolla. It will include an engine bay and motor to install in the model. Since it doesn't exist in 1/24 form, will there be a problem with Toyota for refering to it as it's proper name 4A-GE?

Second example, replicating rims. Since it's something that a maufacturer had originally produced but I'm copying, will I be in trouble for selling it? And would I have issues calling them by their proper name (such as Volk TE-37, Mugen MR5, etc)?

Well, those two are separate issues that what I mean: If you scratch build something, unless it's a copyrighted design (Not that common I believe), you can sell it without any problems if you don't call it the actual name (For example, an R/C company called their body a 'Stratocruiser' because they didn't want to pay to use the Stratus name, and Tamiya pulled the Chevy and Ford logos on their plastic R/C truck bodies some years ago).

I was more asking about modifying an existing product and selling copies of that, the licensing issues with real companies notwithstanding. Such as, selling a body kit using the production facia as a base and your own custom work on top of it, or selling a body with your own personal custom body kit installed.

You will have issues if you do a straight copy of a part and sell it, and call it the real name. If it's completely custom, and uses a generic name, you should be OK.

That sounds like that would be fine. For a brief period of time, I was designing body kits for one of the local tuner shops. They had explained to me that a copied product needs a minimal 15% change for it to be considered a different body kit. That's why you can see many many similar designs with an extra vent thrown in or slightly different version. We know it's the same, we know which is the original, but because it's just slightly different, they can sell it as their own. It seems relevant in this case. I'm glad you shared your input too. Anyone else that can ad something to help out? Guess I won't be selling rims.

15% is usually the legal number. 15% change for products and trademarks.

For example, is somebody modifies a convertible version of a car into a coupe, can they cast the body and sell it? Or if you modify athe original part to the point that it's no longer recognizable as the original car, but it started out as that basic part, such as a custom hot-rod or an engine and tranny setup for a car?

I wouldn't try out the first example. If you're gonna cast that body with just a top on and nothing else, I think it's on the edge. The second one shouldn't be a problem at all. There is no way they can prove you used their original part as base. If you destroy it in time of course :cwm27:

2 examples:

For my first example, my personal work (completely scratch built) is making a transkit for the corolla. It will include an engine bay and motor to install in the model. Since it doesn't exist in 1/24 form, will there be a problem with Toyota for refering to it as it's proper name 4A-GE?

Second example, replicating rims. Since it's something that a maufacturer had originally produced but I'm copying, will I be in trouble for selling it? And would I have issues calling them by their proper name (such as Volk TE-37, Mugen MR5, etc)?

As long as you don't call it Toyota, I think you can sell the engine. For example, Sakatu has S2000 engine kit, and it's properly licensed with a Honda sticker on each kit. But if you describe your engine model as a four cylinder motor suitable for Carolla and alike between year this and that, that's probably acceptable.

As for the wheels, again if the wheels don't look like existing ones, and don't use the company names, you should be able to sell. And the buyer will determine whether they want your wheels that "look close enough" to the brand name ones. :)

Mabye just changing the name would also br sufficiant. It's what the sculptors here in the US do when they make a model of a comic book character and sell them without the license. (these are the same people that rabidly shout out about the evils of the overseas recasters...very hipocritical but they don't want to hear that)

Now you an probably get away with this for engines and such, but enitre car kits...probably have to change the name and a little of how it looks. "Hey, that almost looks like an Impreza...but not quite."

:biggrin: