downshift 1st gear?


SubaruRally
04-27-2005, 10:36 PM
I was talking with somepeople about downshifting and someone mentioned that you are not supposed to downshift to first gear.. i usually dont downshift to first anyways but i want to know if it is bad for your car or just something they are making up?

drftk1d
04-28-2005, 12:12 AM
the gear braking is really intense in 1st. doubt thats something you'd want.

kfoote
04-28-2005, 09:46 AM
The bigger issue is that 1st is usually much shorter than 2nd, and you have to be careful not to mechanically overrev the engine. Most auto manufacturers design their crs so that they do not go into 1st very easily unless the car is stopped or going very slowly. The actual act of downshifting into 1st isn't bad when done correctly, but can be very expensive if you get it wrong.

tr0ike
04-28-2005, 02:00 PM
The bigger issue is that 1st is usually much shorter than 2nd, and you have to be careful not to mechanically overrev the engine. Most auto manufacturers design their crs so that they do not go into 1st very easily unless the car is stopped or going very slowly. The actual act of downshifting into 1st isn't bad when done correctly, but can be very expensive if you get it wrong.

I discovered this when I was first learning stick ... my gearbox can be extremely difficult to shift into first, even from a complete stop sometimes .. so the excrutiating GRINDING noise from trying to pop it into first @ 40 MPH (in neutral of course, just wanted to coast) taught me better!

It is annoying when I get behind someone slow, or cruise up to a light/traffic and need to shift from 2nd to 1st, but it takes 5 seconds ..

samandiar
05-02-2005, 05:05 PM
I discovered this when I was first learning stick ... my gearbox can be extremely difficult to shift into first, even from a complete stop sometimes .. so the excrutiating GRINDING noise from trying to pop it into first @ 40 MPH (in neutral of course, just wanted to coast) taught me better!

It is annoying when I get behind someone slow, or cruise up to a light/traffic and need to shift from 2nd to 1st, but it takes 5 seconds ..
i feel for you, my camry is the same way

drdisque
05-02-2005, 06:33 PM
in my dad's car, A Cadillac CTS (the only manual car I drive regularly), you don't even need to use 1st unless you are stopped.

samandiar
05-04-2005, 03:09 PM
my car doesnt have enough torque to pull very well in 2nd from low speeds

clawhammer
05-04-2005, 10:58 PM
Isn't part of the problem that first gear doesn't have a syncro, so you need to match the revs?

samandiar
05-05-2005, 02:19 AM
im pretty sure it has a synchro, seeing as double-clutching isnt required to downshift to it at low speeds, and it doesnt seem to help at slightly highr speeds

kfoote
05-05-2005, 10:39 AM
Isn't part of the problem that first gear doesn't have a syncro, so you need to match the revs?

Some do, some don't. This varies car to car. Even in the cars that do have 1st gear synchros, it's still not easy to get it into first when the car is moving.

TheStang00
05-05-2005, 07:28 PM
Isn't part of the problem that first gear doesn't have a syncro, so you need to match the revs?

thats reverse

mason_RsX
06-12-2005, 08:14 AM
I was always told that first takes the most strain because of how the ratio is set up...so I was always taught only put it into 1st if your say in ice going pretty slow and need to stop quickly...

sunstreaker.ASU
06-24-2005, 10:21 AM
yeah, downshifting into first is not a really good idea. I actually had to downshift into first the first time I drove on the Nurburgring because the track was really long, my car had a stock brake set-up, and this was the second time I tracked the ring and I had to downshift into first because the guy ahead of me braked way too shallow and my brakes were virtually gone, faded and I had to resort to downshifting into first, but I was going too fast and the transmission locked up the wheels and I plowed right off the track.

kfoote
06-24-2005, 12:56 PM
yeah, downshifting into first is not a really good idea. I actually had to downshift into first the first time I drove on the Nurburgring because the track was really long, my car had a stock brake set-up, and this was the second time I tracked the ring and I had to downshift into first because the guy ahead of me braked way too shallow and my brakes were virtually gone, faded and I had to resort to downshifting into first, but I was going too fast and the transmission locked up the wheels and I plowed right off the track.
:bs:
1. Downshifting into first will not lock up the wheels if you're heel-toeing as you claimed you always do in another thread here. Even if you're not heel toeing, it won't permanently lock up the wheels in a FWD/AWD car enough to "Plow right off the track". The car is obviously FWD or AWD because a RWD car would spin off track, not plow off track if the drive wheels lock up.

2. Though I have never driven the Nurburgring, with my other racing experience I am familiar enough with the track to know that there is no corner slow enough to require first gear in a car that would have a stock brake setup, Unless you're driving a heavily modded car with a non-stock transmission that is for track use only (in which case there would have been enough prep in the car to not have brake fade unless you're a complete and total idiot). The slowest corner I have ever driven on is still a 2nd gear corner, at speeds > 30 MPH in the dry and 25 MPH in the wet on tires that were not suitable for the conditions.

3. In any moderately modern car, downsifting into first to slow the car down will result in a blown engine (or at least major internal engine damage) if you're going faster than 25 MPH, and if you have brake fade and you're concerned as to whether or not you're going to make the corner, you're going faster than 25 MPH.

sunstreaker.ASU
06-24-2005, 01:48 PM
The Wehrseifen turn at Nurburgring, you are going up hill and if you don't know the course very well, you won't brake hard enough for the blind left. It is a sharp left hand turn that requires earlier braking because you have to line up for the quick right hander that comes immediately after the blind left. I had two witnesses in the car. I was right on the tail of the guy ahead of me and believed that I could stay on the gas a bit longer coming into the turn, the guy ahead of me decided to brake early and I was so close that I freaked and stomped on the brake but he was braking much harder than I was coming into the turn and I couldn't stop fast enough so I just shifted into first without trying to match the revs. I didn't match revs cause I didn't think about it because I was so scared about plowing into him. I jammed the gear in and the engine's revs shot up and the tranny locked for a spilt second, it must have since the wheels were sqealing. When this happened, the guy ahead of me started his turn and I couldn't follow him into the turn even though I had the steering wheel turned. I just slid past the entry point of the corner mashed on the brakes and slid off the track.

kfoote
06-24-2005, 03:24 PM
The Wehrseifen turn at Nurburgring, you are going up hill...
try again.
http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/photolap.html
http://forum.rscnet.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=283846
http://www.silhouet.com/motorsport/tracks/nurb5.g

continentalenglish
09-22-2010, 05:13 AM
When I slow down to an intersection while in 3rd gear I dont downshift into 2nd or 1st although I probably could shift into second I just stay in third and let the car slow down, then I speed up again after passing the intersection. Is this hurting my transmission? Should I be downshifting into second?

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