Toyota won't help out domestic car manufacturers


clawhammer
04-26-2005, 05:44 PM
TOKYO (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp. said Tuesday it will not raise its car prices to help U.S. rivals, breaking with its chairman's comments a day earlier that voluntary price increases and other steps were in order to help restore health to the U.S. auto industry.

"Our basic stance is that prices are something for the market to determine," a spokesman at Japan's top auto manufacturer said. "We are not thinking about changing (vehicle) prices in order to help the U.S. auto industry."

Japanese brands collectively grabbed a record 30 percent share of the U.S. auto market last year, and some executives have become more sensitive about how their companies' success would play out at the political level.

At the annual motor show in Detroit earlier this year, Toyota President Fujio Cho and Honda Motor Co. Chief Executive Takeo Fukui said Japanese brands' expansion in the United States should not go unchecked, with Fukui volunteering that the combined share should be kept under 40 percent.

"I'm worried not only about GM but about the entire U.S. auto industry," Toyota Chairman Hiroshi Okuda told a news conference Monday as the head of Japan's biggest business lobby, the Japan Business Federation.

"Automobiles are the symbol of American industry, and if things go wrong there may be some kind of impact.

"As an automaker, we have to think about what countermeasures we can take," Okuda said, adding that technical alliances and voluntary price rises are possibilities.

A top Honda executive, however, mirrored Toyota's official stance that raising car prices to help the competition in North America was out of the question.

"I realize that GM, as well as Ford, are suffering financially," Executive Vice President Koichi Amemiya told a news conference at which Honda reported a fourth straight year of record earnings.

"But that doesn't mean you ignore the customer and raise your prices," he said.

Hit by falling U.S. sales and growing costs for employee health care, General Motors Corp. (Research) last week recorded a first-quarter loss of $1.1 billion, its worst result since the world's biggest auto manufacturer nearly went bust in 1992.

Its automotive operations lost almost $2 billion, most of that in North America as it offered thousands of dollars in sales incentives per vehicle to lure customers back. Even then, GM surrendered more sales to Asian brands, especially in the light trucks segment, its main cash cow.

Its rival Ford Motor Co. (Research) had a 38 percent drop in quarterly earnings and cut its North American production to reduce bloated inventories of unsold vehicles.

In contrast, Toyota and Honda, the world's most valuable auto manufacturers, are expected to report their best-ever earnings for the year that ended last month.

Japan's second-ranked Nissan Motor Co. reported its best operating profit for the fourth year in a row Monday.

GM Chief Executive Rick Wagoner has repeatedly complained that the yen is too weak against the dollar, giving Japanese auto makers an unfair edge.

Toyota and Honda have argued that they are building more than half of their cars sold in the United States locally, creating jobs for Americans.

Toyota said it was constantly studying what the appropriate price of its cars should be based on the competitive environment, costs and profits, but that it had no decision now on any changes to its prices in North America.


My opinion:
GM screwed things up, they should fix it themselves, without going to congress crying.

Musashi3000GT
04-26-2005, 06:14 PM
I dont see it along the lines of "toyota wont help out domestic car companies" but rather

"U.S. car companies want to raise prices on the same shit they are already selling, Toyota and Honda disagree, the consumer is more important then some corporate fatass promotion."

but thats just my opinion. I like a nice car sold at a fair price.

Amish_kid
04-26-2005, 06:16 PM
I don't see why they should have to help them out, if it was reversed Gm wouldn't lift a god damed finger so fuck them.

CivRacer95
04-26-2005, 06:18 PM
I dont see it along the lines of "toyota wont help out domestic car companies" but rather

"U.S. car companies want to raise prices on the same shit they are already selling, Toyota and Honda disagree, the consumer is more important then some corporate fatass promotion."

but thats just my opinion. I like a nice car sold at a fair price.

:1: Exactly how I feel.

TheStang00
04-26-2005, 07:26 PM
well i think ford will recover, they have made huge changes over the last year and being a ford guy like i am i am really excited to see all the things they are doing, i think they are really moving forward, their vehicles are becoming increasingly reliable and their new body stiles look better than ever. and they have made a complete switch over to over head cam engines, getting rid of the old technology and preparing more for the future.

drftk1d
04-26-2005, 07:31 PM
funny how gm and toyota share platforms...

shit, even the saturn vue redline has a honda motor.

doesnt look like General Motors is really in a position to be asking other manufacturers to help them further.

uranium235powered
04-26-2005, 07:36 PM
IMO, US manufacturers should "LOWER" the prices of their cars if they want to grab more customers. If they increase the acr prices, they'll lose even more customers. Sell the Ford GT and the Dodge Viper at more affordable prices like at around $80,000. Produce more powerful handling RWD cars at reasonable prices. Offer a lifetime warrenty even when customers mod the shit out of their cars at no extra charge.

Thats probably all impossible, but its just my opinion of how they could get more buyers. But I'm still leaning towards the Japanese market...because of their styling and aftermarket. Just personal preference.

drftk1d
04-26-2005, 07:40 PM
the viper does cost about 80k...

Sticky
04-26-2005, 07:54 PM
GM would be doing better if they actually built cars people were intersted in buying. The Cobalt is a nice compact, and stacks up well against the competition it has. The Corvette is a good performance car. Everythign else other than their SUVs are still not where they need to be. The Monte Carlo and Grand Prix need to be RWD, not FWD; the GTO needs restyled and dropped in price.

GM has the engines to make some great cars, they just need to make some cars to put the engines in now.

chexmixa
04-26-2005, 07:55 PM
HEHE they didn't mention dodge in that whole mess. I know they aren't selling as well as toyota honda or nissan but thye are at least maken a profit lol.

TheStang00
04-26-2005, 07:56 PM
Produce more powerful handling RWD cars at reasonable prices.


thats the mustang... the mustang really doesnt have direct competition from any one car.

TheStang00
04-26-2005, 07:58 PM
HEHE they didn't mention dodge in that whole mess. I know they aren't selling as well as toyota honda or nissan but thye are at least maken a profit lol.


well ill tell ya what... that new charger looks like crap, dodge needs to rethink that one. the srt-4 is the only good thing that i can think of that they got going for em.

clawhammer
04-26-2005, 07:59 PM
IMO, US manufacturers should "LOWER" the prices of their cars if they want to grab more customers. If they increase the acr prices, they'll lose even more customers. Sell the Ford GT and the Dodge Viper at more affordable prices like at around $80,000. Produce more powerful handling RWD cars at reasonable prices. Offer a lifetime warrenty even when customers mod the shit out of their cars at no extra charge.

Thats probably all impossible, but its just my opinion of how they could get more buyers. But I'm still leaning towards the Japanese market...because of their styling and aftermarket. Just personal preference.
The problem is not the sports segment. That accounts for like .00001% of the market. The problem is with their family cars, trucks, SUVs and minivans. Those are the ones that aren't selling.

TheStang00
04-26-2005, 08:49 PM
i dont know how true the is for trucks, ford trucks were the best selling vehicle in 2004 by more than 300,000. they sold nearly 1 million of them, the next best selling car, which was the camry, sold 600,000 some cars. dodge trucks were third or fourth or something and they were also around the 600k mark

clawhammer
04-26-2005, 08:59 PM
I could get money that Ford will not sell 1 million F150s this year. Just a guess, it will probably be around 750,000.

uranium235powered
04-26-2005, 09:17 PM
The problem is not the sports segment. That accounts for like .00001% of the market. The problem is with their family cars, trucks, SUVs and minivans. Those are the ones that aren't selling.

I see your point. Maybe, GM should consider going back to making cars like the highly fuel-efficient Geo's. I'm not bashing, infact I might get a Geo Metro as a daily driver. The prices of gasoline is so high nowadays, I would think more people would go to these cars. Plus, insurance for a freaking 3 cylinder engine would be much cheaper than a Honda Civic, wouldn't it? Maybe alter the Geo's so that they would hold a little more roomier and a little decent styling, and throw in a highly fuel efficient 3 cylinder into the car, and off the showroom floor costing less than $10,000.

Andydg
04-26-2005, 09:33 PM
well ill tell ya what... that new charger looks like crap, dodge needs to rethink that one. the srt-4 is the only good thing that i can think of that they got going for em.

I agree on about the Charger not being so pretty but I bet it will sell very well. I still really with that Dodge wouldn't've called this the Charger though. But they also still have the Magnum, Ram, and the 300 all of which have been selling very well around this area.

chevytrucks92
04-26-2005, 11:04 PM
i dont know how true the is for trucks, ford trucks were the best selling vehicle in 2004 by more than 300,000. they sold nearly 1 million of them, the next best selling car, which was the camry, sold 600,000 some cars. dodge trucks were third or fourth or something and they were also around the 600k mark

Nope. The next best selling vehicle was the Chevrolet Silverado. It sold in the 600K units. And the Dodge Ram sold like 400K units.

Last month, Ford sold something like 80K F-150s and Chevrolet sold 71K Silverados. I think that was the most trucks Chevrolet has sold in March since 1978.

GMs problem isn't so much with their products as it is with their healthcare costs. They are projecting they have to pay over 5 billion (i think) dollars in healthcare costs this year.

And GM has alot of new products getting ready to hit the market. The Pontiac Solstice had 1000 pre-orders made in 41 minutes the other night on "The Apprentice". The Monte Carlo and Impala get reskinned for 06 and get all new engines and revised interiors. They may be FWD, but they'll have a 303 hp SBC next year. And then the Trailblazer SS comes out next year with an LS2 available in rear or all wheel drive. And of course the new SUVs come out next year with the trucks the year after. They're the only automaker with a hybrid full size truck, and if they improve upon it with the new trucks, then I strongly think they'll make a run at the F-150 for sales king (just with the Silverado, when you comgine the Silverado and Sierra sales, more times then not they beat the F-150). And technically, GM sales more trucks then Ford as a whole, just not as many Silverado's as F-150s.

clawhammer
04-26-2005, 11:10 PM
Now that's sad. 12 mpg pickup sales are up just as gas prices jumped in the last month.

chevytrucks92
04-26-2005, 11:30 PM
Now that's sad. 12 mpg pickup sales are up just as gas prices jumped in the last month.

Well, they (GM) don't get 12 mpg though, lol. They're rated for 15-19 in 4WD and 16-20 in 2WD. Most of the car mags average 16 or 17 with them.

And mine gets 18 and 19 mpg, but its not a new one, but still. I could actually round it up from my fuel mileage last week and claim 20 (19.7 mpg is what I got-295 miles divided by 15 gallons of gas), and that's with a 13 year old, 135,xxx miles 4WD 350. It does have a couple bolt-ons that are supposed to help and I got a bedcover as well and don't have a heavy foot, but 18-20 mpg in a full size 4WD truck is fine with me.

Zgringo
04-27-2005, 12:09 AM
The one of the biggest problems GM has had, in the past Chevy division cried when another division would build something better than them. In 1954 Olds built a 2 seat sport car with a Rocket V8 and 4 speed automatic while Chevy had the inline 6 Vette and Chevy cried it would kill the Vette market so wouldn't allow it to be built. Then Pont. an Olds built the tri power cars that almost killed the Belair Chevy market and had to stop building them. Then GMC built the Syclone and Typhone and once again had to stop production. Couldn't have a truck and SUV that would post better numbers than Chevy's flagship, the Vette.
With the coming of the Jap cars, the first ones were just crap, but they learned there lesson quickly and now build some of the best and most modern cars and trucks in the world. But this was good as it made the American automobile mfg's revamp and reengineer there thinking if they wanted to stay in the market. Ford and Chrysler has done some big changes while GM was draging there feet, and just now starting to come around, but still crying that the imports need to raise prices so they could remain in the market. Ford an Chrysler dugin and have started to fight back at the import market. I just hope GM does the same.
I remember a old song that went, " Baseball, hotdogs, apple pie and Chevolet".

For you old car buffs, heres the most expensive car in the world. The Olds F-88 sold at last auction for 3.24 million dollars.

http://img259.echo.cx/img259/7326/f887gg.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)http://img259.echo.cx/img259/8674/f8815pj.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img259.echo.cx/img259/3635/f8828si.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

TheStang00
04-27-2005, 07:16 PM
And technically, GM sales more trucks then Ford as a whole, just not as many Silverado's as F-150s.


you have proof of that? cause the numbers i saw had the F-series blowing away chevy trucks, and other than chevy i cant think of that many other GM trucks, except GMC. but i guess there are a decent number of GMC trucks around :dunno:

chevytrucks92
04-27-2005, 11:12 PM
you have proof of that? cause the numbers i saw had the F-series blowing away chevy trucks, and other than chevy i cant think of that many other GM trucks, except GMC. but i guess there are a decent number of GMC trucks around :dunno:

Well, the F-150 did out sale the Silverado and Sierra last year, but typically that doesn't happen. Silveardo sales were in the 600K units and the GMC sold in the 200K.

As for other GM trucks:

-Chevrolet Avalanche (around 100K units sold I think)
-Cadillac Escalade EXT (not real sure how many it sales)
-Hummer SUT

And then SUVs count as well

-Chevrolet Tahoe (out sales the Expidetion by 20K units or so)
-Chevrolet Suburban (blows away the Excursion)
-GMC Yukon
-GMC Yukon XL
-Cadillac Escalade
-Hummer H2

Ford doesn't have as many products, and again, the only thing they outsale GM on is the F-150 vs. the Silverado. GM sales more large SUVs then Ford.

When you add all of this up, GM sales the most light trucks.

clawhammer
04-28-2005, 07:55 AM
It should be interesting to see what will happen to GM over the next few years. But they really need to make more fuel efficient cars, especially Hybrids.

Zgringo
04-28-2005, 12:53 PM
It should be interesting to see what will happen to GM over the next few years. But they really need to make more fuel efficient cars, especially Hybrids.

There's a old saying, "if you snooz, you lose". I hope GM gets there butt in gear. As a consumer, it makes for better cars for all of us when the competition is kept on there toes.

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