re: 91 Honda Civic Alternator Problems
agardonia
04-23-2005, 02:33 PM
91 Honda Civic DX
1.5 Liter 4 cylinger
Manual Transmission
4 Door Sedan
Mileage: 172,000
NO P/S, or P/W, or P/L, or Sunroof
Has A/C, Rear Defrost
I have a 91 Honda Civic, that has approximately 172,000 miles on it. I replaced my motor at 158, 000 miles because a rod was thrown through the block. At about 162,000 miles, the alternator went bad (original one from the car) so I replaced it. However, since I have replaced it I have been through 3 alternators in a month's time. The first 2 I bought from AutoZone and were made by DuraLast. Both had faulty voltage regulators. The odd thing about both of these alternators was that when you started the car up, without any lights, a/c, rear defrost, radio, or wipers, the voltage regulator would not kick in to charge the battery. However when you turned anyone of these items on after starting the car, the voltage regulator would kick in and it would all run fine, but you shouldn't have to do that. Both of the AutoZone alternators tested fine at the store on the testing unit when operating under a load, but when there is no load, they would only crank out 12 - 12.6 volts, instead of the 13.1 - 14.5 volts that is normal.
I finally got fed up with AutoZone, took the alternator back and got my refund, and went to O'Reilly's where I bought an Ultima Alternator. My father and I ran very in depth tests of the alternator, the battery, the alternator connector plug, the alternator ground, when we installed the Ultima Alternator. Upon starting the car, everything functioned properly. The voltage regulator was kicking on without having to be induced, so we figured it was just a bad batch of alternators from AutoZone. However, 2 days later, I began having the same symptons again, so I took it up to O'Reilly's and they confirmed that it was the voltage regulator in the alternator.
I use this car for work, but it is becoming extremely stressful, and I can not figure out what the problem is. I have called both Honda and several mechanics and they say that I am getting bad alternators. But I am skeptical, because 3 different alternators (2 being from AutoZone, and 1 being from O'Reilly's) have gone bad. I am leaning toward more of bad battery cables, or a faulty alternator wiring harness, or possible bad relay. If anyone has any ideas as to what the problem might be, I would welcome them. I am at a loss, and can not think of anything else. Any help would be greatly appreciated
Andrew
1.5 Liter 4 cylinger
Manual Transmission
4 Door Sedan
Mileage: 172,000
NO P/S, or P/W, or P/L, or Sunroof
Has A/C, Rear Defrost
I have a 91 Honda Civic, that has approximately 172,000 miles on it. I replaced my motor at 158, 000 miles because a rod was thrown through the block. At about 162,000 miles, the alternator went bad (original one from the car) so I replaced it. However, since I have replaced it I have been through 3 alternators in a month's time. The first 2 I bought from AutoZone and were made by DuraLast. Both had faulty voltage regulators. The odd thing about both of these alternators was that when you started the car up, without any lights, a/c, rear defrost, radio, or wipers, the voltage regulator would not kick in to charge the battery. However when you turned anyone of these items on after starting the car, the voltage regulator would kick in and it would all run fine, but you shouldn't have to do that. Both of the AutoZone alternators tested fine at the store on the testing unit when operating under a load, but when there is no load, they would only crank out 12 - 12.6 volts, instead of the 13.1 - 14.5 volts that is normal.
I finally got fed up with AutoZone, took the alternator back and got my refund, and went to O'Reilly's where I bought an Ultima Alternator. My father and I ran very in depth tests of the alternator, the battery, the alternator connector plug, the alternator ground, when we installed the Ultima Alternator. Upon starting the car, everything functioned properly. The voltage regulator was kicking on without having to be induced, so we figured it was just a bad batch of alternators from AutoZone. However, 2 days later, I began having the same symptons again, so I took it up to O'Reilly's and they confirmed that it was the voltage regulator in the alternator.
I use this car for work, but it is becoming extremely stressful, and I can not figure out what the problem is. I have called both Honda and several mechanics and they say that I am getting bad alternators. But I am skeptical, because 3 different alternators (2 being from AutoZone, and 1 being from O'Reilly's) have gone bad. I am leaning toward more of bad battery cables, or a faulty alternator wiring harness, or possible bad relay. If anyone has any ideas as to what the problem might be, I would welcome them. I am at a loss, and can not think of anything else. Any help would be greatly appreciated
Andrew
91civichatch2571
04-24-2005, 11:58 AM
sounds like you may have messed up some wiring when you swapped engines since thats when all the problems started. maybe either that or theres a bad ground/connection somewhere. did you do any wiring when you replaced the motor? is it just another dx motor?
Kunundrum
04-24-2005, 12:24 PM
Do you have a stereo in the car ?
agardonia
04-24-2005, 12:42 PM
No, I didn't do the engine swap, my mechanic did it. He also replaced the front two drive axles, and recharged the a/c. If it were a bad ground or something, I don't think the car would even start. It has no trouble starting, just for some reason the voltage regulator in the alternator isn't kicking on when you start the car. But if that's the case, then it must be the alternators, because the third one I got overall, but first from O'Reilly's, the voltage regulator was working when we fired it up, so it has to be a bad batch of alternators. So when I get paid Friday I am ordering a brand new alternator from Honda (http://www.hondapartsdeals.com). It's only $166, but it's brand new and not remanufactured, and they don't want any core charge.
The Honda dealership (Jay Wolfe Honda) wants $259.63 for a brand new one, plus $30.00 for a core fee. That's just absolutely ridiculous on the price. I may see if Jay Wolfe Honda will match it though. I'm gonna try the one off the website first.
The engine is just a standard 1493 CC (1.5 Liter Honda Motor). This car has been nothing but a problem since putting the new motor in February 17th. I have replaced the catalytic converter, spark plugs, plug wires, distributor, distributor cap, rotor, alternator (times 3), oxygen sensor, pcv valve, fuel filter, air filter as needed, regular oil changes, and 3 new tires over the last 2 months.
Car still idles rough at very low speeds, and when stopped, but it only does it when driving around town, on the highway the car is great. Occassionally it backfires in 1st or 5th gear only. Never in any of the other gears. It has poor engine response to rapid throttle increase in 1st gear, but the other 4 gears get decent response. It is very hard to start out in first gear when I am on a hill. It has no power whatsoever and takes forever to get up the hill
I have an 11.9 gallon fuel tank, and the car is rated at 35 miles per gallon (416.9 miles to a tank), but the gas mileage is way across the board. One day I get 259 miles to a tank of gas, the next day I get 320, then another day I will get 380 to tank of gas. I don't get it. It's driving me insane. I use the car for delivery and I need to be getting consistent gas mileage but it's up and down like a rollercoaster. I've tried STP fuel injector cleaners, Heet, and STP gas treatment additives, all to no avail.
As for a stereo, the car has a JVC AM/FM/CD/MP3 Player Head Unit 200 watts (50 watts x 4 channel), and 4, 6.5" Pyle Speakers. 2 in the front, and 2 in the rear. I have no amplifier, no subwoofers, or anything else connected to the car. The car is stock, has no light kits, or aftermarket electrical accessories attached to it.
I'm open for suggestions.
Andrew
The Honda dealership (Jay Wolfe Honda) wants $259.63 for a brand new one, plus $30.00 for a core fee. That's just absolutely ridiculous on the price. I may see if Jay Wolfe Honda will match it though. I'm gonna try the one off the website first.
The engine is just a standard 1493 CC (1.5 Liter Honda Motor). This car has been nothing but a problem since putting the new motor in February 17th. I have replaced the catalytic converter, spark plugs, plug wires, distributor, distributor cap, rotor, alternator (times 3), oxygen sensor, pcv valve, fuel filter, air filter as needed, regular oil changes, and 3 new tires over the last 2 months.
Car still idles rough at very low speeds, and when stopped, but it only does it when driving around town, on the highway the car is great. Occassionally it backfires in 1st or 5th gear only. Never in any of the other gears. It has poor engine response to rapid throttle increase in 1st gear, but the other 4 gears get decent response. It is very hard to start out in first gear when I am on a hill. It has no power whatsoever and takes forever to get up the hill
I have an 11.9 gallon fuel tank, and the car is rated at 35 miles per gallon (416.9 miles to a tank), but the gas mileage is way across the board. One day I get 259 miles to a tank of gas, the next day I get 320, then another day I will get 380 to tank of gas. I don't get it. It's driving me insane. I use the car for delivery and I need to be getting consistent gas mileage but it's up and down like a rollercoaster. I've tried STP fuel injector cleaners, Heet, and STP gas treatment additives, all to no avail.
As for a stereo, the car has a JVC AM/FM/CD/MP3 Player Head Unit 200 watts (50 watts x 4 channel), and 4, 6.5" Pyle Speakers. 2 in the front, and 2 in the rear. I have no amplifier, no subwoofers, or anything else connected to the car. The car is stock, has no light kits, or aftermarket electrical accessories attached to it.
I'm open for suggestions.
Andrew
DONESCAPE03
04-06-2010, 05:22 PM
If your mechanic cannot resolve the problem, you probably should buy a newer car-or get a new mechanic.
All the rebuilding has cost you some cash, and although it's great to keep the older cars on the road and I tend to do the same if I can - you can't continue throwing good money after bad. Trade it in while it is still running and get a lower mileage vehicle - or you will keep throwing money at this one, it's a choice that I think you should look at. I know it's a huge headache, but you will be happily and reliably on your way to work on a daily basis if you make the move.
Otherwise, I would look for a better alternator. The OEM is probably your best bet. But I would also suspect that you have something either drawing too heavy a load on the regulator, or some of your connectors could have overheated and built up resistance and overloaded your regulator.
AS far as the power loss issues - I would have the catalytic converter looked at - if it has one. If you are in a low gear under hard acceleration, you will get backpressure build up in the exhaust, suffer power loss and missifres, and your mileage will fluctuate depending on how the cat is working - and potential damage. But that is only an opinion. I am not a mechanic. But my truck has 3 catalytic converters and the 2 in front went bad and clogged the rear one. It built up backpressure, ran poorly like you describe and eventually blew the EGR right off the motor. I had to pay out 1,000 in parts. I am replacing the converters myself since Ford wanted 3,400.00 and was charging 2500.00 in parts alone. It's amazing how much damage a poorly functioning catalytic converter can do if you don't catch it. And the replacement is no easy task. At least on the ford escape. You will probably only have 1 cat located just before the muffler. A relatively easy fix.
Hope this helps
All the rebuilding has cost you some cash, and although it's great to keep the older cars on the road and I tend to do the same if I can - you can't continue throwing good money after bad. Trade it in while it is still running and get a lower mileage vehicle - or you will keep throwing money at this one, it's a choice that I think you should look at. I know it's a huge headache, but you will be happily and reliably on your way to work on a daily basis if you make the move.
Otherwise, I would look for a better alternator. The OEM is probably your best bet. But I would also suspect that you have something either drawing too heavy a load on the regulator, or some of your connectors could have overheated and built up resistance and overloaded your regulator.
AS far as the power loss issues - I would have the catalytic converter looked at - if it has one. If you are in a low gear under hard acceleration, you will get backpressure build up in the exhaust, suffer power loss and missifres, and your mileage will fluctuate depending on how the cat is working - and potential damage. But that is only an opinion. I am not a mechanic. But my truck has 3 catalytic converters and the 2 in front went bad and clogged the rear one. It built up backpressure, ran poorly like you describe and eventually blew the EGR right off the motor. I had to pay out 1,000 in parts. I am replacing the converters myself since Ford wanted 3,400.00 and was charging 2500.00 in parts alone. It's amazing how much damage a poorly functioning catalytic converter can do if you don't catch it. And the replacement is no easy task. At least on the ford escape. You will probably only have 1 cat located just before the muffler. A relatively easy fix.
Hope this helps
Mr Ezra
08-16-2011, 11:47 AM
Andrew
I just solved a very similar problem in my girlfriend's 91 Civic LX. it was on its 2nd alternator and it was starting poorly. The battery was completely discharged but no warning light the charge voltage on the Battery was kind of low so I determined that the regulator in the alternator was stuck on trickle charge (I have seen this before.) I replaced the alternator with a good quality rebuild from my favorite parts store. Seemed better at first but 2weeks later she's stuck calling me for a jump. At first it looked like the rebuild was bad on the alternator but something smelled fishy so I got the literature and checked the fuse (#14) was about to dissect and re solder the Main relay (that has worked for me too) and I noticed the small gage ground wire on the top of the motor showed symptoms of thermal fatigue (trying to burn up) and I could measuse a significant voltage drop on the top ground wire at idle. so I started moving stuff out of the way to replace the main ground cable from the battery and lo and behold although the cable connection itself looked good the terminal on the tranny was located on the Shift cable anchor flange and the flange itself was not sufficiently tightened to transmission housing, creating the myriad of intermittent problems and generally poor performance. tightened it up and it was like a new car everything works way better; the starter the alternator the EFI all like new! from all the posts and search hits on this subject my guess is that nerky little flange is creating a huge economic boon for the electrical rebuilders! (also had to replace the internal radio fuse):loser:
I just solved a very similar problem in my girlfriend's 91 Civic LX. it was on its 2nd alternator and it was starting poorly. The battery was completely discharged but no warning light the charge voltage on the Battery was kind of low so I determined that the regulator in the alternator was stuck on trickle charge (I have seen this before.) I replaced the alternator with a good quality rebuild from my favorite parts store. Seemed better at first but 2weeks later she's stuck calling me for a jump. At first it looked like the rebuild was bad on the alternator but something smelled fishy so I got the literature and checked the fuse (#14) was about to dissect and re solder the Main relay (that has worked for me too) and I noticed the small gage ground wire on the top of the motor showed symptoms of thermal fatigue (trying to burn up) and I could measuse a significant voltage drop on the top ground wire at idle. so I started moving stuff out of the way to replace the main ground cable from the battery and lo and behold although the cable connection itself looked good the terminal on the tranny was located on the Shift cable anchor flange and the flange itself was not sufficiently tightened to transmission housing, creating the myriad of intermittent problems and generally poor performance. tightened it up and it was like a new car everything works way better; the starter the alternator the EFI all like new! from all the posts and search hits on this subject my guess is that nerky little flange is creating a huge economic boon for the electrical rebuilders! (also had to replace the internal radio fuse):loser:
EF You
08-16-2011, 09:34 PM
nice first post Mr. Ezra!
OP, hes probably right. even if the car starts every time, it can still be the ground. heres why: the ECU and basically the entire fuel injection system wire harness has grounds that bolt to the thermostat housing. theres another ground that goes from the frame to the head and valve cover. the main ground strap goes from the battery, down to the frame, and then to the transmission case. all of the fuel injection system uses lower voltage/amps than the alternator and starter do, so they can all operate just fine with just that small ground going to the head and the grounds on the thermostat housing that run the ECU. however, that big ground strap is what the alternator needs because of the amps involved. if its starting to corrode on the inside of the sleeving, or its been over-amped it could be crumbling on the inside and you wouldnt know.
my suggestion is, before you spend a lot of money on the alternator from a dealership, go buy a new negative terminal/ground strap combo from the parts store and spend an hour changing yours out. if you want, change out the smaller ground on the head as well.
i had alternator problems on one of my EFs, and i ended up running heavier gauge wire from the alternator to the fuse box, a way bigger ground strap, and fresh ground wires from the frame to the head and it was a steady 13.5 volts at idle all the time.
OP, hes probably right. even if the car starts every time, it can still be the ground. heres why: the ECU and basically the entire fuel injection system wire harness has grounds that bolt to the thermostat housing. theres another ground that goes from the frame to the head and valve cover. the main ground strap goes from the battery, down to the frame, and then to the transmission case. all of the fuel injection system uses lower voltage/amps than the alternator and starter do, so they can all operate just fine with just that small ground going to the head and the grounds on the thermostat housing that run the ECU. however, that big ground strap is what the alternator needs because of the amps involved. if its starting to corrode on the inside of the sleeving, or its been over-amped it could be crumbling on the inside and you wouldnt know.
my suggestion is, before you spend a lot of money on the alternator from a dealership, go buy a new negative terminal/ground strap combo from the parts store and spend an hour changing yours out. if you want, change out the smaller ground on the head as well.
i had alternator problems on one of my EFs, and i ended up running heavier gauge wire from the alternator to the fuse box, a way bigger ground strap, and fresh ground wires from the frame to the head and it was a steady 13.5 volts at idle all the time.
crxcivic91
06-26-2012, 02:13 PM
I have a 91 crx i recently got up and running after sitting a short time, now i have a battery light on on the dash and it goes away after being reved up past 2500rpms, also the car will run for about a half hour and then will die and the battery is completely dead does anyone have any ideas that could help me?
CivicSpoon
06-26-2012, 09:51 PM
If you can get a ride, take you battery to your local parts store (pepboys, autozone, etc) and have your battery tested for free. Its possible the battery could have gone bad from sitting. If that comes out fine, it could be your alternator, which can also go bad from sitting. The parts stores should also be able to test your alternator for free. Personally I would stay away from pepboys alternators, if that is in fact the problem. I've seen them "go bad" within months. A bad alternator wont always throw a check engine light code.
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