I was talking to my dealer at the local Pontiac place, and he was telling me how GM wasn't going to produce an '06 GTO. He says that they are going to dump the Monaro style and develop it's own look, he is guessing it will be based off the current Corvette body. Says that it will be back in '07 with a full makeover, but doesn't know anything about the powerplant in this one.

Anyone else hear anything about this?

Look at this.
http://channels.netscape.com/ns/autos/package.jsp?name=autos/buick_pontiac_end1

i dunno, they won't can the GTO until they bring out another sports car. For example, the Firebird and Camaro reigned for about 3 decades, canned them, released the GTO. If they cut the GTO, then they will most likey make another Camaro (supposedly already in the works) and maybe a new Firebird (PLEASE!!!!).
As for Buick, once the Riviera was dropped, it was all down hill. The need to get back to their roots, like Caddy is doing. Remember the Grand National? Yeah, that was a car. They need to appeal to the crowd that they sold to back in the day -> the people who wanted a classy, yet powerful car. Usually the guys who couldn't afford Cadillac...lol.

The problem is GM is not in the business to make cool cars, they are in the business for the quick dollar. This is why they are losing market share. they have lost their consumer base to other companies who are giving consumers what they want.

GM's suffering from too many "bean counters", old marketing ideals and bad management. (compounded by greedy unions who are sucking the company dry with rediculous pensions, high salaries for uneducated workers and health care plans that govt officals would be jealous of) Nevertheless, the new GTO and it's lack of sales are a result of bad marketing..

They've taken a car with a great heritage and tried to apply that heritage on a car that's meant to be competitive with a "luxury sport sedan" like a BMW. The original GTO wasn't this. It was a big powerful engine in a lighter, smaller chassis and sold for cheap. GM got the LS engine right, but the car itself is bland and too expensive. It should be today what the fox body mustang was in the late 80's. Cheap and fast. If the GTO had the cost of a sunfire and held the performance, they'd have a winning combination that would sell like hotcakes. But, this is not what they did.

I wouldn't be suprised one bit if GM did drop the GTO. Like I stated above they are in the business for the quick dollar and if they don't see the potential, they'll drop it fast. They don't care about heritage because heritage doesn't cash in at the bank. "Marketing" may state otherwise, but don't believe it. All they are about is your $$.

The GTO can't be sold here in 2007 because of new regulations so 2006 will be the last model year for it.

The GTO wasn't meant to compete with a luxury sports sedan. It is the most affordable 400 hp car on the market. Sales through April of the GTO are up over 78 %.

The GTO can't be sold here in 2007 because of new regulations so 2006 will be the last model year for it.

The GTO wasn't meant to compete with a luxury sports sedan. It is the most affordable 400 hp car on the market. Sales through April of the GTO are up over 78 %.


I disagree with you. 1- Watch the GTO commercial. the GTO goes up against a BMW at the traffic light, not a Mustang. (there's a reason GM chose to use a BMW, not a mustang.) 2- The GTO is 40K+ (luxury sport sedan pricing), not 25k (mustang pricing) 3- conservative graphics/ lines. Not aggressive like the T/A was. Again, appealing to the market of a luxury sport sedan consumer base 4- I have friends who design at GM. When they tell me GM's plan for that car (it was intended to go up against BMW), I believe them.

Now, the GTO should NOT be this. It "should" be an affordable 400hp car. (40K is not bargain pricing) It should be selling for 25K loaded. If it did I'd bet that car would sell like the dickens. It "should" have aggressive scoops, graphics, a "judge" package and killer rims. This type of thinking worked in 1964 for Pontiac. They couldn't build enough of them. If they did this today I believe it would work.

But then again in '64 America wasn't over saturated with lawyers and people looking to sue everybody for anything. Gm may not be able to afford legal defense against them being sued for making available a car with loads of power to the youth market. It woudl be deemed "socially irresponsible" and maybe this is why it's out of the price range for the average american.

The GTO is just plain ugly. While I am glad it was not retro, This is not what i was hoping for. When i was buying my 2003 grand am Gt, All I heard was people commenting about how ugly it is, and then when they saw the price, the foul language started. Gm has made serious errors with their designs and Pricing. The Chevy SSR is a great little truck/car, but at 44k? Hell no. 30k and it would be selling like crazy!! They still have 04s sitting on the lots here on Long Island. If the GTO had been priced around 28k, it might have had a chance...

The GTO is just plain ugly.

I think the GTO is very stylish, so much so I bought one. I didn't have an issue with the price either, I feel you get a lot of car for the money. It is well built inside and out and is quite inside. The GTO handles extremely well and the power, well, what could be said...

Go spend a couple hours with a GTO and I think you will have a change of mind.

FYI, There will be an 06 GTO, the contract with Holden was for three model years. There will be no 07 but you will see an early 08 on the Sigma platform and it will be built in Detroit. This is sugbect to change of course.

There will be a 06 GTO. But there may not be an 07. There was supposed to be a Zeta (cheaper version of the Sigma) baste U.S. built 07 GTO, but the dumb@ss:banghead: bean counters at GM decided to move resources to get there next-gen SUVs and pickups out sooner: story March 21, 2005 Zeta Not the End of RWD Performance (http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives/2005/03/zeta_not_the_en.htmls ) There will be no new GTO till 08 assuming GM keeps making them. That’s all I know for shore.

I hope in 08 there will be an American made 27,000$ GTO that looks like this:
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/images/large/1154-1.jpg
More images of the 1999 GTO concept (http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.php?file=car.php&carnum=1154)
And More (http://www.seriouswheels.com/top-1999-Pontiac-GTO-Concept.htm)
:feedback:

^ thats the ugliest car I have ever seen, yes even worse then the asteck.

^ thats the ugliest car I have ever seen, yes even worse then the asteck.


I agree! FUGLY....

Holden's Zeta chassis isn't a cheaper version of Cadillac's Sigma chassis. They are different.

I think the 2006 Pontiac Solstice looks far better than that 1999 GTO concept.

check here

Pontiac sports car (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=377526)

The 2004 Pontiac GTO Raim Air 6 also looks better than that 1999 concept.

RedLightning
You have got to be kidding Me. It's the same idea as the new Mustang or do you think it looks like crap to?

SuperRoo
You probable would have said the same thing about this (http://ultimategto.com/cgi-bin/showcar.cgi?type=show&pic=/pow/pow0432a) car in 1969.

Holden's Zeta chassis isn't a cheaper version of Cadillac's Sigma chassis. They are different.
Everything I've read says. that It's a Sigma that uses cheaper parts and is cheaper to build.


The 2004 Pontiac GTO Raim Air 6 also looks better than that 1999 concept.
http://www.tuningnews.net/news/041104a/pontiac-gto-ram-air6-01.jpg
It's nice...But it looks like a Grand Am whith a body kit.

The Sigma chassis likely does cost more to build than the Zeta chassis. Only three cars use the Sigma chassis (Cadillac's CTS, STS, and SRX).

The GTO Ram Air 6 looks better than the 1999 GTO concept.

Zeta has been cancelled for North America.
GM sold more LS1 F-Body's than GTO's, and they spent FOUR times as much marketing the GTO. Not surprised it will be gone already.
Firebird is dead, forever. Camaro probably isn't. Firebird's namesake has been retired, Camaro's has not.

I like the idea of the new GTO. Fits in the Pontiac line like the older GTO's did. Except with power. And they were built to compete with luxury sedans. Which they do, and rather well. If you haven't driven one, you should. Even just the LS1 version. Great ride, power is great even in the heavy car. Handles nicely, VERY comfortable.

Zeta hasn't been cancelled.

Holden will make new rwd coupes and sedans by this time next year. Read about it in the new issue of Motor Trend.

A new Zeta has been put on hold for North America.

Zeta hasn't been cancelled.

Holden will make new rwd coupes and sedans by this time next year. Read about it in the new issue of Motor Trend.

A new Zeta has been put on hold for North America.
Like I said....Zeta has been canned for North America.

http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20050319-054012-7778r.htm

Other continents though, still supposed to be a go.

I do hope that Import Chevy GTO is sunk.

The people who put this together are "trying to get a quick buck" off a great car.

If I had the money I would buy the tooling for the cars crush it at a REAL Pontiac outing and melt it all into a Pontiac Gen 3 block not a Chevy block but one of the new Gen 3s.

I would also buy as many New Chevy GTOs I could and have a rolling car crusher on the back of 1985 6x6 and go find the people who bought one of these Chevy GTOs and crush the bastard right in from of their house!!, and I would want the Chevy GTO to see what I did it it's sister. so it knows what kinda crap want-to-be car it is!

ramairgto72,

Chevrolet didn't make the GTO.

Have you driven a 2005 Pontiac GTO?

ramairgto72,

Chevrolet didn't make the GTO.

Have you driven a 2005 Pontiac GTO?

The heart and sole of any car is the engine, it's not the heater, or the wheels, or the gas tank, it's the engine, and the engine sitting in the engine bay is a CHEVY, the heart and sole of the car is a CHEVY...........C-H-E-V-Y.

If you paint cow spots on a pig, it's still a pig.

I don't care to drive the GTO, in fact I had a some-what replay of whats going on here, with the sales guy trying to get me into one, he had the miss-fourtune of telling me that:
"This GTO is everything the old ones were and more"

I have driven alot of nice cars, however I will not lower myself to the level of driveing that car, it's everything Deloren would not want it to be....I chevy powered car with GTO on it.

Thats great if Chevy wants to make a GTO, the name can be given to any car, just don't lean to the Pontiac side.


You know if they had put in a 3800 Gen IV I would have been half ok with it.

I know you know what i'm saying, I know you don't want to accept what I'm saying, but look at it this way, if you got a Hemi Cuda and put a 454 chevy in the engine bay, and took it to car shows, what kinda response would you get from the Mopar car guys, it's the same with this Chevy GTO, it's a CHEVY engine under the hood!

On top of that the old GTO was made for the motor head working the mill, this GTO is for the money makers.

By the way I feel the same way about every Firebird, T/A made with that cookie cutter engine.

http://www.geocities.com/ramairgto72 and www.geocities.com/the400andoverclub

The heart and sole of any car is the engine, it's not the heater, or the wheels, or the gas tank, it's the engine, and the engine sitting in the engine bay is a CHEVY, the heart and sole of the car is a CHEVY...........C-H-E-V-Y.

If you paint cow spots on a pig, it's still a pig.

I don't care to drive the GTO, in fact I had a some-what replay of whats going on here, with the sales guy trying to get me into one, he had the miss-fourtune of telling me that:
"This GTO is everything the old ones were and more"

I have driven alot of nice cars, however I will not lower myself to the level of driveing that car, it's everything Deloren would not want it to be....I chevy powered car with GTO on it.

Thats great if Chevy wants to make a GTO, the name can be given to any car, just don't lean to the Pontiac side.


You know if they had put in a 3800 Gen IV I would have been half ok with it.

I know you know what i'm saying, I know you don't want to accept what I'm saying, but look at it this way, if you got a Hemi Cuda and put a 454 chevy in the engine bay, and took it to car shows, what kinda response would you get from the Mopar car guys, it's the same with this Chevy GTO, it's a CHEVY engine under the hood!

On top of that the old GTO was made for the motor head working the mill, this GTO is for the money makers.

By the way I feel the same way about every Firebird, T/A made with that cookie cutter engine.

http://www.geocities.com/ramairgto72 and www.geocities.com/the400andoverclub


The salesman is correct, this is the old GTO plus more.

The LS2 is NOT a Chevy engine, it is a GM corp engine. The LS2 powers not only the Vette and the GTO but also the SSR and the 06 CTS-V (that is a Caddy).

Get off you hi-hourse will ya.

ramairgto72,

Why not drive the car before writing it off?

The salesman is correct, this is the old GTO plus more.

The LS2 is NOT a Chevy engine, it is a GM corp engine. The LS2 powers not only the Vette and the GTO but also the SSR and the 06 CTS-V (that is a Caddy).

Get off you hi-hourse will ya.

Well, hmmmm

It's funny how upset your getting about this, your WRONG, the LS2 is a CHEVY engine, the engine is not the same as a 1970 5.7 SBC true, the LS2 is the same SBC just changed over the years, it's the orignal SBC but changed and revised for the times. The new LS engines are in the same family as the SBC. If it's not a SBC tell me why the rods from that engine will go in any SBC????? HMMMMMMM

And your wrong again, if you goto your Chevy dealer you will find that that engine is listed as a Chevy part number, I should know I was with my friend when he bought one.

The CHEVY GTO is a Chevy.

Your unwillingness to see the truth tells me that you might have that Chevy GTO or your thinking about getting one....

"Hi Hourse", it looks like your the one with the big problem about the truth, the truth is the engine in the Chevy GTO is part of the chevy SBC family, you tell me i'm wrong! The Chevy GTO is nothing but a cheap way of GM getting money from people who don't know anything about heritage! Sticking a "one size fits all" engine into everything they make is not a real car but a fancy package with the same insides, same engine different outside.

You the type of guy that would buy a 1969 GTO rip out the Pontiac engine and put a Chevy in it, let me tell you , when you do that you kill the car, you think it's just me? try useing a Chevy engine at Norwalk during the nationals, they will not let you run!

Your in denial!

It isn't a "Chevy GTO."

It is a Holden Monaro with some changes to meet U.S. regulations. It is made in Australia by Holden. It has an LS2 first used in the 2005 Chevrolet Corvette.

Here is a video of a Holden HSV sedan from last year since you won't drive a new GTO. HSV is Holden's performance division.

http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/vy2/video/premiere.wmv

HSV is Holden's performance division.

Check out HSV here. HSV is Holden's performance division

http://www.hsv.com.au/index_new.html

There is a "Cars I love/Cars I hate" forum.

check here

car forum (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=558)

Hate cars/like cars.......
So you think I should find another place to wrtie about the GTO? Makes me feel a little unwanted lol.

Your correct Holden did make the whole thing up, and it's even more silly to see truck like models useing the same idea.

I'm not going to get into a "what was made where" with you, I know the cars an import (that even makes it more a non GTO). Your totaly missing what i'm saying, I don't know if you don't what to see it because it may change your view of cars, but it's CHEVY POWERED! The sole and the sum of the car is chevy, even tho it's built over seas it's run by a Chevy engine and trans.

Lets try to look at this another way, if I took out my engine and put a Chevy engine in my car, do you still see it as a GTO or a bastard Chevy?
If I was to take off the front nose and the rear bumper with that chevy engine in the bay, some people would be hard pressed to tell me that was a Pontiac.

A cars heart and sole is it's inner workings just like us, if I remove bobs brain and put it in Eds, BOB is not BOB anymore hes ED however he still looks like BOB.

And thats what GM did, they sold out the GTO by not only puting a foreign body into the mix, they put a Chevy engine into the bay.

If this was 1970 and GM did that to a Pontiac people would seu and when they did that to the Olds Rocket by placeing a SBC in place with the Olds Rocket air cleaner they sued.

It's a Ausi/Chevy GTO and I don't care how "COOL" it drives I will never buy one, unless i'm stinking rich and I would buy them all and destroy them and make them into man hole covers.

Hate cars/like cars.......
So you think I should find another place to wrtie about the GTO? Makes me feel a little unwanted lol.

Your correct Holden did make the whole thing up, and it's even more silly to see truck like models useing the same idea.

I'm not going to get into a "what was made where" with you, I know the cars an import (that even makes it more a non GTO). Your totaly missing what i'm saying, I don't know if you don't what to see it because it may change your view of cars, but it's CHEVY POWERED! The sole and the sum of the car is chevy, even tho it's built over seas it's run by a Chevy engine and trans.

Lets try to look at this another way, if I took out my engine and put a Chevy engine in my car, do you still see it as a GTO or a bastard Chevy?
If I was to take off the front nose and the rear bumper with that chevy engine in the bay, some people would be hard pressed to tell me that was a Pontiac.

A cars heart and sole is it's inner workings just like us, if I remove bobs brain and put it in Eds, BOB is not BOB anymore hes ED however he still looks like BOB.

And thats what GM did, they sold out the GTO by not only puting a foreign body into the mix, they put a Chevy engine into the bay.

If this was 1970 and GM did that to a Pontiac people would seu and when they did that to the Olds Rocket by placeing a SBC in place with the Olds Rocket air cleaner they sued.

It's a Ausi/Chevy GTO and I don't care how "COOL" it drives I will never buy one, unless i'm stinking rich and I would buy them all and destroy them and make them into man hole covers.

The new Pontiac GTO/Holden Monaro uses a Tremec 6 speed manual and a GM Hydra-Matic 4L60-E four-speed automatic.

The "heart" of a car is its engine, but humans are far more important than cars.

The new Pontiac GTO/Holden Monaro uses a Tremec 6 speed manual and a GM Hydra-Matic 4L60-E four-speed automatic.

The "heart" of a car is its engine, but humans are far more important than cars.

I really don't care about the trans...

However i'm correct about the engine, you think so also.

As for as "humans are far more important than cars."

If you could save a train car rolling down a hill to a dead end that meets a 200 foot drop off ,with a group of "insurgents" in it or a train car with a 1969 T/A in it(yes, I will make you save a Pontiac), what one would you save by flipping the lever to change the track?

Before you say they are worth more to question I have first hand info that your wrong, we need a human sized meat grinder so that American pets get cheap food.

If you could save a train car rolling down a hill to a dead end that meets a 200 foot drop off ,with a group of "insurgents" in it or a train car with a 1969 T/A in it(yes, I will make you save a Pontiac), what one would you save by flipping the lever to change the track?

Before you say they are worth more to question I have first hand info that your wrong, we need a human sized meat grinder so that American pets get cheap food.

Everyone will become dumber for reading that.

:sly: :lol2:

It's a fact that apes and "dumb" people tend to want to fight, insult or call names when they are faced with a problem they can't solve. I have offered information and you offer insults. It hurts when your wrong and you respond the only way you can, it's ok I understand now, try not to beat on your chest to much, and if your going to crap in you had and toss it, try to clean it up :)

By the way man, your car really sucks, are you trying to an American James Bond, oh I know since your still not walking up-right and still dragging your knuckles your trying to look upper class....

It's people like you that key nice cars, or ones that are better then yours. Jaguar Dum-Type ?

The Jaguar D-Type won the 24 Hours of Le Mans in 1955, 1956, and 1957 against Maseratis, Ferraris, Aston Martins, and other race cars.

I don't key cars. I like my 1991 BMW 318is except for the lack of torque.

You and I both know people are worth far more than cars.

Also, I can hardly wait to drive the 2006 Pontiac Solstice regardless of its I-4 engine.

I have offered information ...

The only "information" I've seen from you is miss-information!

ok....on the whole not making an 06 gto.....to me, i have read so many thnings in magazines, gm web, gm mail, and sites....there is supposed to be an 06 GTO but not an 07, this is becuase the 07 replica of the 69 camaro is supposed to come out. Thats all i heard from the info.

There will be a 2006 GTO.

check here

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=417082

It doesn't seem as if there will be a 2007 GTO, but if it came back it would be built here and wouldn't have retro styling.

I have no idea if there will be another GTO in 07, but let me share this.

In the Australian Press a few weeks back there was a story about the current Monaro which is a coupe version of popular sedan called the "Commodore". The current model Commodore will be the last using that platform. The new Commodore due Sep 05 will be built on a new platform. So what you say? It is unlikely that a Monaro will be developed from this new platform which in terms means that a GTO devloped Monaro will not happen.

Here's the Juicy bit. Holden (OZ GM arm) engineers are assessing the Corvette. They are deciding whether to build from the ground up, using the Corvette platform, a new Monaro, with a wilder edge and sportier image. The question begs, that if it goes ahead, will the next GTO come from the new Monaro.

I think it will, as they only sell about 4-5000 Monaro's a year. Seems like an exepensive exercise for that quantity.

Mmm, the plot thickens

Just found the story:

10jun05

The Holden Monaro could become mightier when it emerges from the VE Commodore development program. It could become a rival to the Chevrolet Corvette.

The potential to take on America's classic King of the Hill sports car has emerged as Holden's product planners go back to basics for the Monaro successor.

"Really, the current Monaro is just a two-door Commodore," GM Holden chairman Denny Mooney says.

"There are other alternatives, still with VE architecture. We could do a real performance coupe.

"I'm not saying we want to do a Corvette, but it could be quite a different product."

News of the Corvette potential for the Monaro comes as other engineering chiefs at Holden talk about their ambitions for the brand.

Some are even keen to produce a Commodore to rival the BMW M5, using performance parts from the GM world.

Mooney has flagged the move for the Monaro, even though the car is not confirmed for showrooms either in Australia or in America, where it is sold as the Pontiac GTO.

He is more confident that Holden will have a new-generation Monaro as opportunities for the Australian mechanical package re-emerge, but is vague on the details.

It was previously suggested that hopes of a tie-up with GM's global product development were over, but Mooney denies the death of the international VE.

"I still think it is highly likely we will see rear-wheel-drive vehicles in North America with significant design input from our organisation. Our architecture is still being looked at very favourably," he says.

The future of the Monaro is tied to some degree with overseas developments, but Mooney won't be specific on US production potential or a continuation of the Pontiac GTO.

A final decision on the Monaro could come as late as the second half of next year. That would still give Holden time to fast-track the coupe.

"It will be in the next 12 months. Our vehicle development cycle is getting a lot shorter," Mooney says.

The only "information" I've seen from you is miss-information!

More like info you don't like hearing...

I had to go back and look, but I found out why you have a bug so deep. YOU BOUGHT ONE OF THOSE UGLY CARS LOL, thats why your pissed LOL, well sir you bought a BASTARD it's not a Pontiac and it's dam sure not a Pontiac GTO, you bought a Aussi made Chevy powered GTO.

And I'm darn sure you will NEVER be respected in Pontiac or even Chevy circles! As much as you would like to brag about your Mustang looking Auss/Chevy, you can't it's to simple, the only way you can is by making up or finding you little area where others have been sucked into a GTO lie and have bought this fugly want to be.

You know if you would have just come out and said "Yea I was miss led, I thought I was going to fit in with the other GTOs" sure I would have gone a little easy on you.

But no tuff guy, I spout miss information, why dont you go out on a limb and tell me why this car IS A REAL PONTIAC GTO and make me eat my words.

Tell me why the engine is a REAL pontiac engine, Tell me how American the car is being made by the Aussi's (Putting Americans out of work) Tell me why the word PONTIAC does not show up on the outside of the car, or the inside till somebody had a egg about it, or tell me why the car is not an Import!

The engine is the same family as the SBC the design is what the SBC should be right now looking at the history of changes till now. If your not calling it a chevy then tell me where the background came from this engine, If it has no background try looking at the bearings in the engine as a start.

Prove me wrong, anybody can insult and give quick rips, but the info I have given is solid, and you that bag with the F150 pimped are more then welcome to prove me wrong.

SO let's see, GM builds cars in Australia, badges them Pontiac and people complain its not a true american car. What about the monte carlo? Its built in Canada. Others are built in Mexico. Wouldnt they be imported also, taking away american jobs. Seems as if some people need to come forth to the 21st century. In the world now, I'm sure V-8's are going to become a rare breed. When we all have 6 cyl. and 4 cyl. cars, or dod v-8's then we can all drive imports, because even if built here, many, many parts on them are built in Mexico, Canada, or overseas.
Why?? Because they can build parts, ship them and install them, for the price to build them here. Oh and the overseas car makers are just as bad, Volkswagen, supposedly german I think, gets engines from Mexico, and other parts are built in Japan. We can't all drive great cars like we had in late 60's and early 70's. Is a fact that we must live with.

And on the subject of the 06 GTO, it will be built, much like 05 with some minor changes and colors. Just so ya know!! :evillol:

SO let's see, GM builds cars in Australia, badges them Pontiac and people complain its not a true american car. What about the monte carlo? Its built in Canada. Others are built in Mexico. Wouldnt they be imported also, taking away american jobs. Seems as if some people need to come forth to the 21st century. In the world now, I'm sure V-8's are going to become a rare breed. When we all have 6 cyl. and 4 cyl. cars, or dod v-8's then we can all drive imports, because even if built here, many, many parts on them are built in Mexico, Canada, or overseas.
Why?? Because they can build parts, ship them and install them, for the price to build them here. Oh and the overseas car makers are just as bad, Volkswagen, supposedly german I think, gets engines from Mexico, and other parts are built in Japan. We can't all drive great cars like we had in late 60's and early 70's. Is a fact that we must live with.

And on the subject of the 06 GTO, it will be built, much like 05 with some minor changes and colors. Just so ya know!! :evillol:

So what your saying is that "everybody does it". It's people like you that will cripple America.

By the way a car designed and built in another country shipped here tot he USA and has a Chevy engine put in it does not make it a PONTAIC GTO. It's a Fake, it has more to do with an Aussi GTO then a Pontiac GTO.

Last time I looked you could buy a Real GTO for less then that bastard GM is fooling people with, tell me why i'm wrong!

It's not a Pontiac GTO, you know it would be harder to hold my position if the car was made at a REAL Pontiac plant, but it's not, it's not even a PMD idea.

Next time you look at what the goverment takes out of your pay check, dont bitch because you would have just helped an American GM worker get his food stamps!

So what your saying is that "everybody does it". It's people like you that will cripple America.

By the way a car designed and built in another country shipped here tot he USA and has a Chevy engine put in it does not make it a PONTAIC GTO. It's a Fake, it has more to do with an Aussi GTO then a Pontiac GTO.

Last time I looked you could buy a Real GTO for less then that bastard GM is fooling people with, tell me why i'm wrong!

It's not a Pontiac GTO, you know it would be harder to hold my position if the car was made at a REAL Pontiac plant, but it's not, it's not even a PMD idea.

Next time you look at what the goverment takes out of your pay check, dont bitch because you would have just helped an American GM worker get his food stamps!


America has been crippled for long time due to NAFTA. I'm not saying its right to rebadge a foreign car and try to pass it off as a true american. But like I said Chevrolet Monte Carlo is built in Canada, shipped here and sold as an american car. Shouldnt it be a Canadian car, they are after all another country. All camaros and firebirds in 80's and 90's were built in Canada, yet it was American muscle people said. HA!! All auto makers make their cars everywhere, and pass them off as being from the country where they are headquartered. Toyota builds cars and trucks here, yet people dont see them as American. Maybe GM needs to re-evaluate where they build and how they market their vehicles.
I dont bitch about what the gov't takes from me, if it helps the less fortunate GM worker who is overpaid and underworked. Why do you think the manufacturers build in other countrys, because they get top quality, for less money to build. AM I to feel sorry for UAW NO WAY, is just like other unions. The unions built the country, and the unions are going to break it. :banghead:

Fist i'm all about kicking the American worker in the ass and telling them "do better work for less" or even "stop working the unions". We can do better work then anybody in the word as Americans, however we built our companys on the working class family that has a house, and kids that only are able to work in the ten years.

Companys did a very bad thing, they sold us out, the took our jobs and gave it to people who live 10+ to a house, or in countrys that have no real winter so no heating bills and in places where an american $20 feeds a family for 12 for a month!

We were sold out, we cannot work for that kinda of money because of the last 100 years of the way we built America.

My best friends 71 Monte (on my webpage www.geocities.com/The400AndOverClub ) was built in Canada! Sure thats great is it an American Legend like the GTO? NO, NO, and NO, Chevy has allways tossed just about any engine in it's cars, but not the SS or other High Outputs, and you woud have to know the history of the GTO to know why this Pisses people like me off, Chevy has allways been but buddies with GM and in the past Deloren has lost alot of his ideas to chevy because of this. If you dont think so I have a few places for you to read, it even started in the 50s with Chevy stealing the staped rocker arm from Pontiac and the use of Fuel injection, disks in the rear gull wing doors, and the F body was going to be only a Pontiac thing comming from the Banshee idea, but he HAD to do a F body for Chevy so he could have an F body for pontiac. This gos on and on with engines and even the use of con rods, it seems that Chevy got endless supply of this stuff and pontiac did not.

And now we have a car thats NOT American it's a dam import with the next gen on Chevy Small Block in it sold as a Pontiac GTO!!

Come on man can't you see this??? Chevy has allways been the "cant do wrong" son of GM and it's allways craped on Pontiac.

Every TRUE Pontiac person with tell you that Pontiac super cars died in 1979 (the 301 is a dog and does not count).
Any V8 powered car without a Pontiac engine in it is not a TRUE PONTIAC.

If Bob replaced his brain with Ed's they would still look the same but Bob would be Ed and Ed would now be Bob. The heart and sole of a Car is what moves it, thats the engine, it's not the looks it's the power, the drive force!

Do what you will what what you read, I know you fight be with this but deep down you know i'm correct no matter how many people ignore it, because ignoring it done not make it go away or make it correct!

Fist i'm all about kicking the American worker in the ass and telling them "do better work for less" or even "stop working the unions". We can do better work then anybody in the word as Americans, however we built our companys on the working class family that has a house, and kids that only are able to work in the ten years.

Companys did a very bad thing, they sold us out, the took our jobs and gave it to people who live 10+ to a house, or in countrys that have no real winter so no heating bills and in places where an american $20 feeds a family for 12 for a month!

We were sold out, we cannot work for that kinda of money because of the last 100 years of the way we built America.

My best friends 71 Monte (on my webpage www.geocities.com/The400AndOverClub ) was built in Canada! Sure thats great is it an American Legend like the GTO? NO, NO, and NO, Chevy has allways tossed just about any engine in it's cars, but not the SS or other High Outputs, and you woud have to know the history of the GTO to know why this Pisses people like me off, Chevy has allways been but buddies with GM and in the past Deloren has lost alot of his ideas to chevy because of this. If you dont think so I have a few places for you to read, it even started in the 50s with Chevy stealing the staped rocker arm from Pontiac and the use of Fuel injection, disks in the rear gull wing doors, and the F body was going to be only a Pontiac thing comming from the Banshee idea, but he HAD to do a F body for Chevy so he could have an F body for pontiac. This gos on and on with engines and even the use of con rods, it seems that Chevy got endless supply of this stuff and pontiac did not.

And now we have a car thats NOT American it's a dam import with the next gen on Chevy Small Block in it sold as a Pontiac GTO!!

Come on man can't you see this??? Chevy has allways been the "cant do wrong" son of GM and it's allways craped on Pontiac.

Every TRUE Pontiac person with tell you that Pontiac super cars died in 1979 (the 301 is a dog and does not count).
Any V8 powered car without a Pontiac engine in it is not a TRUE PONTIAC.

If Bob replaced his brain with Ed's they would still look the same but Bob would be Ed and Ed would now be Bob. The heart and sole of a Car is what moves it, thats the engine, it's not the looks it's the power, the drive force!

Do what you will what what you read, I know you fight be with this but deep down you know i'm correct no matter how many people ignore it, because ignoring it done not make it go away or make it correct!

No matter how we look at it, it's what we got and if we don't like it, don't buy it. I drive a Crown Vic cruiser that was made in Canada to catch foreign cars all day and then come home and hop in my Aussie GTO clone to drive up the Coast Highway and watch the sunset. Then I park it in the garage of my home with all the wood imported from Mexico and South America, (not my choice but I don't pick the builders) watch the widescreen imported from Japan and listen to the scanner from Malaysia while I put on a pair of boxers made in Sri Lanka and who knows where. Man, it's hard to buy American entotal anymore. Even your Fruit of the Looms may not be made here.

The American car workers screwed themselves by putting junk in our driveways and we accepted it readily. The unions fought for better wages and less work and the prices went up. We paid it willingly. So we had junk with a high price tag and in comes the imports. It took years to even come close to their quality considering the price.

I've owned over 30 American made muscle cars, and loved every one. I can tell you that if the fit, finish and quality on those cars were as good as the 2005 GTO, we'd have kicked the imports asses right out of the country instantly. But they were not and even the latest Camaros and Trans Ams were not built to the fit and finish of the Pontiac import. Hell, the latest batch of American made cars at the dealer don't have the fit and finish the Aussies gave this.

It may not be classic in style and it may not have the traditional Poncho blue engine under the hood, but it does what my 66, 69 and 70 Goats did. Kick ass when it wants to.

be safe out there and above all, have fun.

I know what your talking about, since TVs have not been made here since the 70s (i think) it's kinda hard not to buy American, however just because you cant buy a TV in America you can do something about a car.

We are kinda getting off the whole sub about the point I was making. The "fit, finish and quality" are things to look for sure, but we are not talking about that here, my point of all of this is:

"It's not a Pontiac GTO"

How could an American Legend made in out of the US and powered by the GTOs arch enemy "Chevy" be a GTO?

before you wast your time trying not to tell me why this engine is not a chevy engine you should read some history on it and look at the changes to the SBC in the years going into this engine, it is what the SBC should be for 2005, sure lots have changed but it's still what the plan was, I just read some of this in my Hot Rod mag, I stoped getting it because I hate seeing A holes putting Chevys into every dick and jane car on the road.

I dont know of any engine that has been out of factory casting since 78 that has such a aftermarket like the PMD V8, they even have new cast blocks in Alum. as well as steel. Aftermarket heads that flow better then RAM AIR 5s!

People that put chevys into Pontiacs should be sent into chipper shredders and sold as dog food. Sure it's not as stupid cheap as SBCs , building a Pontiac is around the same price as building a BBC. What you do get out of it is when you show it off it's not like the cookie cutter SBC engine, my god it's sick seeing the SAME THING UNDER EVERY CHEVY.
Those of you who have Edelbrock elite valve covers GET RID OF THEM SEEN IT 1,000,000 times everyone has a set!!!

To the AussiChevGTO
http://www.geocities.com/ramairgto72/GIFS/Chevy.mp3

no better words have been spoken about this car!

People that put chevys into Pontiacs should be sent into chipper shredders and sold as dog food.

Are you serious?

The engine is certainly a Chevy. Anyone who would argue that point would be having a hollow conversation. The point I am making is that it's one helluva car, no matter how you slice and dice it. The Firehawk enthusiasts love their cars and how do you tell them that St. Therese is not in the US therefore their car is a foreign car and not an American Pontiac? Same with the Chevy Camaro SS? It's simply semantics and nothing more.

The point you're making could be made about Volkswagens made in the US. They don't have a German made engine and are not made in Germany so how could one dare to call them a Volkswagen? There are dozens of other examples of similar cars that don't fit the "purist" mold.

If Chevy wanted to create a car from the Ford F-40 body and call it a Corvette II, we'd hear the same argument from Chevy people. The only way to solve it is for the makers to build a car from the ground up that meets your particular wants and needs with all Pontiac parts. And, that just isn't going to happen. We'll be lucky to see the Pontiac badge on anything in a few years, other than the old iron that survived from the past.

Be happy that thye name survived anyway, in whatever form. It could have been called something else or been a 4 cylinder econobox, which would really be embarassing.

Are you serious?

I guess not, well maybe a little :)

"It's not a Pontiac GTO"
You are right, this isn't a GTO.
Even though the logos and badging say otherwise.
http://www.roguegeek.com/the-journals/images/2003/01/03/gto.jpg

I 100% understand your stance on this. But whether or not you agree with it or not, it IS a Pontiac GTO.

See it's not about any other car i'm talking about it's a Pontiac GTO, I don't really care if joe blow got his car made in spain.

I'm talking about an American Legend built to out run everyones car. It was a car that you would buy to shut down a Dodge or a 442 and GMs Teachers pet Chevy.

No what you argue is that "they brought it back" now lets think about what they did make, or should I say the Aussis make, they have a car thats been used as a Van , wagon, hatch (i think) and car, and then they stuff a Chevy V8 in it and call it the next Pontiac GTO.

Come on, please see a problem with this, it's not an American idea not made in America it's powered by a Chevy engine, and it looks like a 90s mustang!

No real Pontiac GTO person would ever say that this is a real Pontiac GTO.

The problem I have is that I have no written rules on what a Pontiac GTO has to be to be a Pontiac GTO! The only thing I can do is look at what it took in the first place to become a GTO.

The GTO was born out of a car with 2 trim levels, a Tempest and a Lemans and then Deloren got and Idea lets make the family car fast, so he took a page from oversease and slaped a big engine in it and called it a GTO.
The thing they want to call a GTO right now has no other "trim levels" and is soled as what it is.

Deloren, when faced with faster engines and crying insurance companys sent his team into comming up with another option, when his team came back with a HO 350 he said that "no way was aything smller then a 400 going into my GTO" this was after the 389 mined you.
I will say this "its fast" but really is that a big deal? You can order a VW wagon with a turbo?!?! So whats the big wow factor? It's really nothing, and it's a sad reason to call this car a GTO.

I am not happy they brought it back, however if they did built it here and Pontiac made the car and it was powered by a redsigned engine based off the orignal Pontiac V8 I would be very happy and support it all the way.

The new mustang looks like an old mustang the new chevy pickup thing looks like an old chevy pickup and is chevy powered and the new dodge charger looks a little like the old one and is powered by a dodge engine, none of these cars were other countrys ideas none of these cars are made outside the US and all of them have a an engine that belongs to it's name.

I dont see the charger with an AMC engine in it, nor do I see the Ford with anything less then a ford engine!
However look out the AussiChevGTO is made in another country and has a much pontiac hated chevy engine in it.

Like I said 3M backed Pontiac Arrow heads dont make it a Pontiac and it sure dosnt make it a Pontiac GTO.

For me as a Pontiac GTO owner I see this as the RAPE of the GTO, I see it as a sad sales ploy to get people to drive this car, and my god you don't race looks you race and drive engines, and what you have in this car is a chevy engine it's the sole of the car, it's what the car is, "a Chevy".

If you look deep into yourself you know the only thing that this car has to do with the real Pontiac GTO is being fast, and fast alone does not give this car the right to be called a Pontiac GTO.

No real Pontiac GTO person would ever say that this is a real Pontiac GTO.
Except for the new GTO owners.

Hell, I know of guys that have both the "real" GTO and the new "fake" GTO. Granted, maybe it shouldn't be called a GTO...I can agree with that. But they (GM) gave it the GTO namesake. It upset people, it made people happy to see it return.

It is all opinion man. I respect yours, and I understand it. But at the same time, you have fought this as hard as you can. Anyone that posts in the GTO section here knows how you feel. And that is fine, but you are seriously beating a dead horse here. Everyone believes what they want to believe, and neither me or you can change that.

You are right, this isn't a GTO.
Even though the logos and badging say otherwise.
http://www.roguegeek.com/the-journals/images/2003/01/03/gto.jpg

I 100% understand your stance on this. But whether or not you agree with it or not, it IS a Pontiac GTO.

If you think so you can be bought cheap, very cheap!
Sitckers dont make a car, a Aussi car with a Chevy engine and GTO written on the side is made for people who can be bought cheap!

1. Not made in America
2. Not a car designed by PMD
3. Not a Pontiac engine

So your saying it's this car is worth the Pontiac GTO badge and the Legend of the past?

Many people in the Pontiac world hate Chevy, they hate them for more reasons then I care to write here, but in a few words here I will tell you some. After the GTO came out Chevy had a hard time catching up, sales even after Chevy got it's own fast car out were lower then the GTO, so what do you do when you cant beat them? You goto dad (GM) and have them cut spending on PMDs fast stuff, like intakes, heads and most of all rods and cranks.

The reason Pontiacs have a bad rep for failing is because PMD never got the funding for it's better rods, sure some of the better engines got them, but 90+% got cast rods good to only 5500RPMs.
A small war with Chevy and Pontiac we on, and Pontiac got the crappy end of the stick.

And now you want this car to join the ranks of the GTO powered by the Mother F'n Chevy block??????????

This car is Bought or liked by
1. people who dont really know what it is.
2. people who cant get a Vette.
3. people who have F body Pontiac with Chevy engines.
4. people who know better but "want a GTO"
5. people who like chevys and are planting the flag of victory.

For those who like this car "your an Info commercials dream".
If your a Pontiac person and support this car
"YOUR A SELL OUT TRAITOR"!!

I am getting a little tired of repeating myself, but as long as sombody comes off with "Its a Pontiac GTO thats the end lets move on"
I will reply. It's not really a last word thing, it's just not a Pontiac GTO, it's at best a bad sales ploy.

I'm talking about an American Legend built to out run everyones car.

So an original Pontiac GTO could out run a 1969 Chevrolet Camaro ZL-1 or a 1967-69 Chevrolet Corvette L88?

If you think so you can be bought cheap, very cheap!
Sitckers dont make a car, a Aussi car with a Chevy engine and GTO written on the side is made for people who can be bought cheap!

1. Not made in America
2. Not a car designed by PMD
3. Not a Pontiac engine

So your saying it's this car is worth the Pontiac GTO badge and the Legend of the past?

Many people in the Pontiac world hate Chevy, they hate them for more reasons then I care to write here, but in a few words here I will tell you some. After the GTO came out Chevy had a hard time catching up, sales even after Chevy got it's own fast car out were lower then the GTO, so what do you do when you cant beat them? You goto dad (GM) and have them cut spending on PMDs fast stuff, like intakes, heads and most of all rods and cranks.

The reason Pontiacs have a bad rep for failing is because PMD never got the funding for it's better rods, sure some of the better engines got them, but 90+% got cast rods good to only 5500RPMs.
A small war with Chevy and Pontiac we on, and Pontiac got the crappy end of the stick.

And now you want this car to join the ranks of the GTO powered by the Mother F'n Chevy block??????????

This car is Bought or liked by
1. people who dont really know what it is.
2. people who cant get a Vette.
3. people who have F body Pontiac with Chevy engines.
4. people who know better but "want a GTO"
5. people who like chevys and are planting the flag of victory.

For those who like this car "your an Info commercials dream".
If your a Pontiac person and support this car
"YOUR A SELL OUT TRAITOR"!!
I kind of respected your opinion until your last paragraph. See, I happen to have bought one of these vehicles and also happen to like it. I also happen to have bought Corvettes, older GTO's, Mustangs, Road Runners, Chargers, a 57 Bonneville and a helluva lot more cars than most people will ever get a chance to buy. To respond to what I now consider your "drivel"

1. I know what it is. It isn't an original GTO but it is fast as hell and eats Mustangs and BMW's at my whim. That's enough for me.
2. I bought a Corvette but having no back seat really sucks for everyday driving. 25K extra isn't all that much is all you want is fiberglass abd extremely high insurance bills.
3. Never had aan F body Pontiac, but had F Body Chevys with Chevy engines
4. I didn't simply want a GTO; just wanted a fast car that looks like a sleeper, good fit and finish and fast as hell; mission accomplished for 30K. The fact that it says GTO on the side works for me.
5. I don't dislike any particular car brand. People drive what they like and that doesn't make them a traitor or a leftist. Karl Marx and Adolph Hitler were great at spouting how when people didn't think exactly how they did that they were traitors and totally wrong. Think about how that makes a person look. Maybe re-read some of your posts?

Relax and enjoy the world. You're not changing anything with your venomous attitude. The real GTO is gone forever and won't come back in any form you will ever like.

Dont compare me to Hitler, just dont, this has nothing to do about him or me, so shut it.

When I talk about "TRAITOR" I'm talking about the person who is a real Pontiac person who is "pontiac all the time" and for anyone to say "oh yea i'm all Pontiac" and to go and buy one a AussiChevGTO is a "TRAITOR" to the auto flag they fly.

What I did not mention is a person who flys "no flag" and just buys because he or she "wants"!?!

But even that being said it's still something that this person "WHO KNOWS" what it really is shows a shadow of themselfs as a person with NO MORELS on how an American Legend should be, and if remade how it at least should be powered by the engine or it's family of engine.

I have been posting alot around here, and it seem after all is said people go right back to GM, crap like "GM made it so it has to be" "It has GTO on it so it's real".

I am not saying that this car is not fast, I'm not saying it's a bad car, I will say it's ugly, but I can't say this is a Pontiac GTO, because it has nothing to do with any of them, nothing, not one thing, not the engine not the looks, not even thought up in America, not even built in America.

The person who buys this car fulling knowing what it is is has no integrity as a car buyer, and I would go even more and say they are foolish to think they would be even liked by American Labors who know nothing about the GTO Legend, but know it's made overseas.

It's sold by GM as a GTO, however it's generaly not accepted by anybody in the car hobby.

Some people look at cars like looking at porn, "it's all the same to them as long as it's sex"

Sorry guys my GTOs need a plot!

So an original Pontiac GTO could out run a 1969 Chevrolet Camaro ZL-1 or a 1967-69 Chevrolet Corvette L88?

Ok so now find me saying "They were faster" in my post???

By the way the vette is not a muscle car, it's a sports car, and you are talking about a L88, not your run on the mill is it? However I will toss in the RAM AIR 5 engine, it had some small numbers but they did make it.

As part of my bitching you helped me make one of my points. "where are all the super Pontiac engines?"

It's because Pontiacs fast cars were beating the pants off Chevys cars first in speed and then in sales, then Chevy made some very fast engines, when Pontiac steped up with it's RAM AIR 5 engine it was cut short of any real production, why? because it was as fast if not faster then what chevy had, and Chevy was not going to let it happen.

Look at the history, I read it, so you can to! It made sense that this would happen, they only real bad thing Pontiac did was not do what Yenco wanted and that was smaller crank mains (like the SBC) on our 421, 428, and 455 engines, and yes we lost Yenco to Chevy, but he was at Pontiac for some time.

Chevy has allways played dirty in the times of Pontiac Power, they did not want Pontiac #3 to out do Chevy, and they won. No we have a Chevy engine in the Bread and Butter of Pontiacs History, you have an engine that is hated in Pontiac history in a remade GTO.

How in Gods name can anybody with a sense of car history like this car? It's everything the GTO should not be, and IT'S A SICK TRICK TO GET PEOPLE TO BUY A CAR!

Dont compare me to Hitler, just dont, this has nothing to do about him or me, so shut it.

When I talk about "TRAITOR" I'm talking about the person who is a real Pontiac person who is "pontiac all the time" and for anyone to say "oh yea i'm all Pontiac" and to go and buy one a AussiChevGTO is a "TRAITOR" to the auto flag they fly.

What I did not mention is a person who flys "no flag" and just buys because he or she "wants"!?!

But even that being said it's still something that this person "WHO KNOWS" what it really is shows a shadow of themselfs as a person with NO MORELS on how an American Legend should be, and if remade how it at least should be powered by the engine or it's family of engine.

I have been posting alot around here, and it seem after all is said people go right back to GM, crap like "GM made it so it has to be" "It has GTO on it so it's real".

I am not saying that this car is not fast, I'm not saying it's a bad car, I will say it's ugly, but I can't say this is a Pontiac GTO, because it has nothing to do with any of them, nothing, not one thing, not the engine not the looks, not even thought up in America, not even built in America.

The person who buys this car fulling knowing what it is is has no integrity as a car buyer, and I would go even more and say they are foolish to think they would be even liked by American Labors who know nothing about the GTO Legend, but know it's made overseas.

It's sold by GM as a GTO, however it's generaly not accepted by anybody in the car hobby.

Some people look at cars like looking at porn, "it's all the same to them as long as it's sex"

Sorry guys my GTOs need a plot!
Just one last thought...where were all the people like you when Pontiac really needed the sales that might, read that "might" have extended the life of the "original" GTO in some form way back when? Probably not old enough to buy one and help keep that iron churning out of Michigan plants?

You think it's not "generally not accepted by anyone in the car hobby." You sure make broad sweeping statements that don't hold water. I just came back from a meet and there were about a hundred vehicles there including vintage GTO's and 3 brand new ones. And they all got respect and raves from fellow enthusiasts. YOU seem to be the only one on here who rants and raves about the new model, so just don't buy one, just don't drive one and get a life free of stress. And watch for the Aussie wonder that cleans your clock at the next traffic light! LOLOL

Asking.....not flaming.

Are these real Pontiacs in your opinion??

http://home.comcast.net/~mrluos/Ponchos13.JPG

i dunno man, i think you are blowing this out of proportion. Sure, the new GTO isn't a real GTO. Fine, done, you said it. Move on. My father was always a GM guy, camaros, vettes and what not. I always considered myself a GM guy too. I drive a CANADIAN pontiac, but every time i get in it and step on the gas i feel like singing god bless america. Why is that? Because being part of a tradition is more then just boundries, borders and tariffs. If you try to tell me my blood isn't anymore red white and blue then sombody with a "real" poncho, i take offense. I wanted a modern looking, fast car with "american" flavor. Sure its made in canada, sure the engine is a chevy. Don't tell me its not a real trans am and isn't part of pontiac history. We have reached a point in time where everything is imported, deal with it. Whatcha gonna do, start a petition to stop GM from being profit conscious? Please, be realistic. Id be willing to bet, if the newer GTOs didn't look so shitty, you wouldn't be HALF as argumentative. What do u really care anyway? GTO heritage is now on a tanget. You are fortunate to own one that STARTED the tradition, so hold your head high, suck in that beer gut--you are a TRUE PONTIAC MAN. Congradu-fuk*n-lations.

GM owns pontiac, so what wrong with that? Sure, times change, companies get consolidated, profits have to be boosted. GMs most important brand was always chevy, you can't really blame GM for trying to make money...even if they went about it the wrong way. Life isn't fair, so why should the automobile industry.

I can see it now GM top brass sitting in an meeting
"well gentlemen, joe blow from virginia has a problem. He doesn't think the new GTO is worthy of true pontiac heritage. Joe blow is also very upset that his cat pissed in his cherrios. Something about honey nut cherrios not being real cherrios and suggests General mills and General motors are in conspiracy with the government, dubbed...operation General Generic. He is calling for the recall and distruction of all new GTOs and Honey Nut Cherrios. So gentlemen, we are going to invade australia, this way we will own it, it will be offically american and joe blow can have his REAL American GTO. We will also kill all bees so there will be no more honey to make honey nut cherrios, so the "true" cherrio will be the only cherrio.
Ok gentlemen, get on it! And no one tell joe blow where apple jacks are made!"

Very nice, I allways like it when the subject is shifted off the car into something different like me or my some dads car made in canada, it tells me that you know the car is not a GTO and not American, even tho you try to hammer the nails in you keep missing the target and getting your finger!

"fortunate to own one" I built my car from a striped parts car, it cost me alot less to build this car then it dose to buy the fake one! You can get a GTO people a real one for alot less and still be able to make more power then the new one, so dont cry me rivers about me being "Fortunate", I built it with very little money, I just didnt buy new stuff all the time, I worked the "price beat" thing with anybody who had the parts I needed, and made dew with used!


"broad sweeping statements that don't hold water" Not everybodys going to tell you what they really want to, I know all about the "pillow talk" at car shows, so feel good about yourself but your wrong, right now in the HPP mag a big back and forth battle is waged with this same subject, Car and Driver noted that the GTO was missing the word Pontiac from anyplace on the car and noted the heat from people not liking the car, infact anyplace I have read about that car you will find a "zinger" about what it's NOT, it's not just me!

I have held all of you on the ropes easyly with questions you cannot answer, and when I ask you why this car should be a GTO all you come up with is "It's fast", To bad so sad that dont cut it!!

If engines were no big deal call up Norwalk about the Pontiac thing this year, guess what, if your running anything other then a Pontiac engine you cant run!!!

Seems that my BS is on your shoe!

Any F body with anything less then a Pontiac engine is not a Pontiac!! yes your T/A and your AussiChevGTO is a Chevy! From what I have read about the 79 T/A people got very pissed about the 403 Olds even lawsuits were filed, just like when Chevy outted the olds rocket and pussyed in a SBC!

Your anger tward what I say is missplaced it should be aimed at GM, they sold you short with your cars, and besides your little world and the other little worlds of other owners, it's not accepted as a Pontiac!!

The GTO at the end, 1973 1974 they were very ugly and as it's written that most wanted it to die because of this and the insurance rape. The Can Am looking car wasnt to bad, but the Nova with a shaker is dam ugly, but still better then this AussiChevGTO.

It died because of gas prices and lack of people wanting ugly cars! Besides insurance rates were crazy. So Pontiac turned to the F body with it's SD and HO engines , very good engines but because of insurance and such you got 8 to 1 very crappy but better then chevy power.

Anyhow, making me out to be a nut, or saying that a car you know was made in Canada or even that it's quick is not going to make it a Pontiac GTO! It's a sukers car, it has nothing to with any GTO ever made or even any car made by GM or America!!

You cant have it both ways, you cant say you own a Pontiac but you buy chevy engine parts!!!

Your all sold on a Lie with a paint job!

I am looking down on your cars that are Chevy powered, you got the crap end of the stick, you got a cookie cut engine under every hood, with a lie on the fender where Pontiac is hung.

So far the only reason you have for this car to be a real GTO is "it's fast". tell me another! Because I can list a bunch why a 70 GTO is a GTO!

As far as getting beat, your the second to say this, For those who think this I say
"A good soldier checks his barrel before he fires his weapon" and "Presumption is the mother of all Fuc ups"
I have around 475hp a 12bolt with 4:11s and a 3400 Stall, with a ported and Polished Edl. 1407 750.#13 "worked" RAMair3s 292 with 501 lift on both sides, look the cam up I dont lie! I'm not the fastest, i'm not the slowest and I dont have much of a chance on the Highway of out running a Ford escort with 4:11s but from block to block and 1/4 I have a dam good combo.

As far as the engine in the works, it's a Alum PMD type IA2 650+inch engine!

I cant think of anybody who will walk up to my car and say "dam it's not made by the Aussis" or "that GTO would be more of a GTO with a Chevy engine".

I can see people walking up to the Bastard GTO and saying "Dam it's made by the Aussuis" and "That Bastard would be better with a Pontiac engine" along with "LOL who bought this Crap" and "Nice Ford" and "Is Honda making RWD cars now?" and "My bud lost his job overseas because of cars like this".

It's a Chevy, your non Pontiac powered F bodys are Chevys! The heart and sole of a car is it's engine, not its lights not it's seats and not the driver, and not the name on the side, it's the engine!

Love it or hate it (LOL) you know i'm correct!!

I'm not saying "bend over and take it" I'm saying "It happened now clean yourself up"!

LOL

Very nice, I allways like it when the subject is shifted off the car into something different like me or my some dads car made in canada, it tells me that you know the car is not a GTO and not American, even tho you try to hammer the nails in you keep missing the target and getting your finger!

"fortunate to own one" I built my car from a striped parts car, it cost me alot less to build this car then it dose to buy the fake one! You can get a GTO people a real one for alot less and still be able to make more power then the new one, so dont cry me rivers about me being "Fortunate", I built it with very little money, I just didnt buy new stuff all the time, I worked the "price beat" thing with anybody who had the parts I needed, and made dew with used!


"broad sweeping statements that don't hold water" Not everybodys going to tell you what they really want to, I know all about the "pillow talk" at car shows, so feel good about yourself but your wrong, right now in the HPP mag a big back and forth battle is waged with this same subject, Car and Driver noted that the GTO was missing the word Pontiac from anyplace on the car and noted the heat from people not liking the car, infact anyplace I have read about that car you will find a "zinger" about what it's NOT, it's not just me!

I have held all of you on the ropes easyly with questions you cannot answer, and when I ask you why this car should be a GTO all you come up with is "It's fast", To bad so sad that dont cut it!!

If engines were no big deal call up Norwalk about the Pontiac thing this year, guess what, if your running anything other then a Pontiac engine you cant run!!!

Seems that my BS is on your shoe!

Any F body with anything less then a Pontiac engine is not a Pontiac!! yes your T/A and your AussiChevGTO is a Chevy! From what I have read about the 79 T/A people got very pissed about the 403 Olds even lawsuits were filed, just like when Chevy outted the olds rocket and pussyed in a SBC!

Your anger tward what I say is missplaced it should be aimed at GM, they sold you short with your cars, and besides your little world and the other little worlds of other owners, it's not accepted as a Pontiac!!

The GTO at the end, 1973 1974 they were very ugly and as it's written that most wanted it to die because of this and the insurance rape. The Can Am looking car wasnt to bad, but the Nova with a shaker is dam ugly, but still better then this AussiChevGTO.

It died because of gas prices and lack of people wanting ugly cars! Besides insurance rates were crazy. So Pontiac turned to the F body with it's SD and HO engines , very good engines but because of insurance and such you got 8 to 1 very crappy but better then chevy power.

Anyhow, making me out to be a nut, or saying that a car you know was made in Canada or even that it's quick is not going to make it a Pontiac GTO! It's a sukers car, it has nothing to with any GTO ever made or even any car made by GM or America!!

You cant have it both ways, you cant say you own a Pontiac but you buy chevy engine parts!!!

Your all sold on a Lie with a paint job!

I am looking down on your cars that are Chevy powered, you got the crap end of the stick, you got a cookie cut engine under every hood, with a lie on the fender where Pontiac is hung.

So far the only reason you have for this car to be a real GTO is "it's fast". tell me another! Because I can list a bunch why a 70 GTO is a GTO!

As far as getting beat, your the second to say this, For those who think this I say
"A good soldier checks his barrel before he fires his weapon" and "Presumption is the mother of all Fuc ups"
I have around 475hp a 12bolt with 4:11s and a 3400 Stall, with a ported and Polished Edl. 1407 750.#13 "worked" RAMair3s 292 with 501 lift on both sides, look the cam up I dont lie! I'm not the fastest, i'm not the slowest and I dont have much of a chance on the Highway of out running a Ford escort with 4:11s but from block to block and 1/4 I have a dam good combo.

As far as the engine in the works, it's a Alum PMD type IA2 650+inch engine!

I cant think of anybody who will walk up to my car and say "dam it's not made by the Aussis" or "that GTO would be more of a GTO with a Chevy engine".

I can see people walking up to the Bastard GTO and saying "Dam it's made by the Aussuis" and "That Bastard would be better with a Pontiac engine" along with "LOL who bought this Crap" and "Nice Ford" and "Is Honda making RWD cars now?" and "My bud lost his job overseas because of cars like this".

It's a Chevy, your non Pontiac powered F bodys are Chevys! The heart and sole of a car is it's engine, not its lights not it's seats and not the driver, and not the name on the side, it's the engine!

Love it or hate it (LOL) you know i'm correct!!

I'm not saying "bend over and take it" I'm saying "It happened now clean yourself up"!

LOL
Read the back of the 05 and 06. They do say PONTIAC, So you're wrong, again.

You're entitled to you opinion but do us all a favor aand don't tie up every post on the board that someone asks about an 04 through 06 with your rhetoric, OK? And we won't bother responding to your posts and we'll all enjoy the board.

Enjoy your ride and enjoy the 4th. And today, remember those who assured you the right to drive what you want, those who gave us all the ability to have Independence Day, and those who made the supreme sacrifice in some land far away and continue to do so today.

Be safe

Very nice, I allways like it when the subject is shifted off the car into something different like me or my some dads car made in canada, it tells me that you know the car is not a GTO and not American, even tho you try to hammer the nails in you keep missing the target and getting your finger!

"fortunate to own one" I built my car from a striped parts car, it cost me alot less to build this car then it dose to buy the fake one! You can get a GTO people a real one for alot less and still be able to make more power then the new one, so dont cry me rivers about me being "Fortunate", I built it with very little money, I just didnt buy new stuff all the time, I worked the "price beat" thing with anybody who had the parts I needed, and made dew with used!


"broad sweeping statements that don't hold water" Not everybodys going to tell you what they really want to, I know all about the "pillow talk" at car shows, so feel good about yourself but your wrong, right now in the HPP mag a big back and forth battle is waged with this same subject, Car and Driver noted that the GTO was missing the word Pontiac from anyplace on the car and noted the heat from people not liking the car, infact anyplace I have read about that car you will find a "zinger" about what it's NOT, it's not just me!

I have held all of you on the ropes easyly with questions you cannot answer, and when I ask you why this car should be a GTO all you come up with is "It's fast", To bad so sad that dont cut it!!

If engines were no big deal call up Norwalk about the Pontiac thing this year, guess what, if your running anything other then a Pontiac engine you cant run!!!

Seems that my BS is on your shoe!

Any F body with anything less then a Pontiac engine is not a Pontiac!! yes your T/A and your AussiChevGTO is a Chevy! From what I have read about the 79 T/A people got very pissed about the 403 Olds even lawsuits were filed, just like when Chevy outted the olds rocket and pussyed in a SBC!

Your anger tward what I say is missplaced it should be aimed at GM, they sold you short with your cars, and besides your little world and the other little worlds of other owners, it's not accepted as a Pontiac!!

The GTO at the end, 1973 1974 they were very ugly and as it's written that most wanted it to die because of this and the insurance rape. The Can Am looking car wasnt to bad, but the Nova with a shaker is dam ugly, but still better then this AussiChevGTO.

It died because of gas prices and lack of people wanting ugly cars! Besides insurance rates were crazy. So Pontiac turned to the F body with it's SD and HO engines , very good engines but because of insurance and such you got 8 to 1 very crappy but better then chevy power.

Anyhow, making me out to be a nut, or saying that a car you know was made in Canada or even that it's quick is not going to make it a Pontiac GTO! It's a sukers car, it has nothing to with any GTO ever made or even any car made by GM or America!!

You cant have it both ways, you cant say you own a Pontiac but you buy chevy engine parts!!!

Your all sold on a Lie with a paint job!

I am looking down on your cars that are Chevy powered, you got the crap end of the stick, you got a cookie cut engine under every hood, with a lie on the fender where Pontiac is hung.

So far the only reason you have for this car to be a real GTO is "it's fast". tell me another! Because I can list a bunch why a 70 GTO is a GTO!

As far as getting beat, your the second to say this, For those who think this I say
"A good soldier checks his barrel before he fires his weapon" and "Presumption is the mother of all Fuc ups"
I have around 475hp a 12bolt with 4:11s and a 3400 Stall, with a ported and Polished Edl. 1407 750.#13 "worked" RAMair3s 292 with 501 lift on both sides, look the cam up I dont lie! I'm not the fastest, i'm not the slowest and I dont have much of a chance on the Highway of out running a Ford escort with 4:11s but from block to block and 1/4 I have a dam good combo.

As far as the engine in the works, it's a Alum PMD type IA2 650+inch engine!

I cant think of anybody who will walk up to my car and say "dam it's not made by the Aussis" or "that GTO would be more of a GTO with a Chevy engine".

I can see people walking up to the Bastard GTO and saying "Dam it's made by the Aussuis" and "That Bastard would be better with a Pontiac engine" along with "LOL who bought this Crap" and "Nice Ford" and "Is Honda making RWD cars now?" and "My bud lost his job overseas because of cars like this".

It's a Chevy, your non Pontiac powered F bodys are Chevys! The heart and sole of a car is it's engine, not its lights not it's seats and not the driver, and not the name on the side, it's the engine!

Love it or hate it (LOL) you know i'm correct!!

I'm not saying "bend over and take it" I'm saying "It happened now clean yourself up"!

LOL
Well…I have come in the thread late but wanted to say couple of things. After glancing at most messages, I’m not sure what the subject is? Ok, no 06 GTO? I sure don’t know if they are going to still make it. Actually, hope they keep making something with GTO name to keep awareness up. Then those that buy the new ones may take a look back through history and learn about the old ones. I personally had 3 GTO’s in my life. Two were 1968’s and one was a 1970 with ram air III. All were 4 speeds and one had tri-power (3x2 carbs for those asking). They would all haul a** and one of them would take everything on the road at that time. (It had a few aftermarket parts to help) Of course I was very young and tended to race others a lot.

Have to agree that the Pontiac motor was one heck of a motor. Add headers and a cam; maybe shave the heads and instant serious horsepower. I miss the days when each division of GM made their own motor. Some of Pontiac’s best motors were the 389, 400, 421 and 428. I experienced them all in the drivers seat. Compared to the new ones, these old GTO’s did not handle well, had poor traction and not many frills. But step on the gas and you were sucked back in your seat with violent force. Floor it from a stand still and car would go sideways instantly and you would have to let off the gas to end wheel spin. A very unforgettable experience. Yes, this type of driving sounds dangerous and irresponsible but I was young and had a GTO, what do you expect? People my age were in to cars and not drugs, etc. Ok, enough history lessons. Those days are gone.

New GTO’s: I would like to have one even knowing what the old one’s were like. They don’t have Pontiac motors anymore but thankfully they are still making cars with horsepower and have performance in mind. Maybe GM will copy the ford mustangs and do an old body style look alike. Hoping for something similar to a 66 or 67 GTO. They had a very classy look. Think about this: Since GM looked back and grabbed the GTO name again; at least they are looking back. I will say if you never drove one of the old ones, you have missed something special.

yes your T/A and your AussiChevGTO is a Chevy!
That is a Grand Am by the way. I was just asking....not asking you to insult me though.

I have said it before, and I will say it again. I understand your logic in this. I just don't agree. I am not angry, I love my cars. They both say Pontiac on them. Whether or not they are 'real' Pontiacs is up for debate. As far as I am concerned, they say Pontiac on them, can't get much more 'real' than that.

I like Pontiac now, I like Pontiac then.

i love my chevy powered pontiac. I didn't get ripped off. Then again, im not a 50 year old guy with some personal vendetta against GM and chevy. Im a 25 year old guy who wanted a fast ride, that could kick the crap out of everything else. What makes me so different then a 25 year old 30-40 years ago who bought a GTO for the SAME REASON. No one here is hiding behind a lie. No one here is in tears because thier cars have a chevy engine in them. Basicly, no one here cares that YOU and the other 1/24th of all pontiac owners has a problem with GM. We understand your points, many of which are good. Now take you beef, back to your little old school fan club so the "rest" of us pontiac guys can enjoy each others cars, aussie, canadian, mexican or american made.

You correct I was 1/3rd wrong, but the first run did not have anythng saying Pontiac on it :)

Well as far as my "rhetoric" as long at I go by the rules I can poast anything I want, I'm not butting in with name calling or being a jerk, this has been just about everyone else, I have a cool head about this and am not causeing a problem, I think you have about 3 people talking about no 06 and the last few pages have been about this FaKe GTO.

I'm just making a point, not causeing a problem, if it feels like a problem to you report me! Just because you dont like the truth you get your feelings hurt, heres a bandaid, feel better?

How am I wrong again? Nobody has come up with answers to my questions on whay this should be a Pontiac GTO, just "it's fast" and "thats what GM is calling it" !!

magnumforc nice try to display me as the "bad guy" however I have been the only one posting without attacking a "person" so ummm your wrong again?!

Answer me why a American Legend can be made in another country, and powered by a Chevy?

How could I even stop people from poasting, you and everyone else can ignore me, but your trying to get your point accross just like me, the only problem is that nobody can tell me any good reason why this car is a Pontiac GTO!

Get over yourself dude LOL!

As far as the 4th i'm have a ball, i'm not even at home posting this! I am also useing Free Speech or free typing here right now.

I also gave for this freedom, and I will use it..

I'm keeping this peaceful, and am asking good questions!

I'm 30 sport, and a chevy powerd car is a chevy!
You 100% wrong about the number of people who hate chevy powered Pontiacs, and your car is a CHEVY, your a chevy guy who drives a Chevy, you cant fly a Pontiac flag and buy Chevy parts for your engine!

Soooooo you getting all red nosed and trearie eyed is not helping things...

You drive a Chevy...

You drive a Chevy...
No.

I drive a GM product. Which includes Chevy, Pontiac, and others.

I'm 30 sport, and a chevy powerd car is a chevy!
You 100% wrong about the number of people who hate chevy powered Pontiacs, and your car is a CHEVY, your a chevy guy who drives a Chevy, you cant fly a Pontiac flag and buy Chevy parts for your engine!

You drive a Chevy...


So what you're basicly saying is guys who use other things in their cars is then considered that car? Say I got a 9'' Ford rear that its then a Ford? Or because a guy is driving a lets say 1960 Ford truck with a Chevy engine that its then a CHEVY? Because what you're saying then this is true. A car is by what the badge says, a Ford is a ford because it has a Blue oval even if the engine isnt made by Ford. A Chevy is a Chevy even if the engine is made by Cadillac.

When you were talking about the chevy and ford thing in the first place, first of all, why would anyone do that? If they did, they are complete idiots. I know its kind of off to that statement but when someone does that its all about customization, its almost what you made, just help from other peoples parts.
Also, Chevy, Pontiac, Olds., GMC, Etc... are all made from one Co. and thats GM. thats just the way it is now days. You cant get a car with a motor made by its product, its all its manufature choice...and like the northstar in the cady's only..nope, its now in the buicks. Chevy dosnt make the motor for others, GM makes the motors for everyone.

When you were talking about the chevy and ford thing in the first place, first of all, why would anyone do that? If they did, they are complete idiots. I know its kind of off to that statement but when someone does that its all about customization, its almost what you made, just help from other peoples parts.
Also, Chevy, Pontiac, Olds., GMC, Etc... are all made from one Co. and thats GM. thats just the way it is now days. You cant get a car with a motor made by its product, its all its manufature choice...and like the northstar in the cady's only..nope, its now in the buicks. Chevy dosnt make the motor for others, GM makes the motors for everyone.

True, what I was talking about is true though, guys actually put Chevy motors in their Ford cars. Now the engines are GM engines now even though they are mainly considered Chevy engines.

You correct I was 1/3rd wrong, but the first run did not have anythng saying Pontiac on it :)

Well as far as my "rhetoric" as long at I go by the rules I can poast anything I want, I'm not butting in with name calling or being a jerk, this has been just about everyone else, I have a cool head about this and am not causeing a problem, I think you have about 3 people talking about no 06 and the last few pages have been about this FaKe GTO.

I'm just making a point, not causeing a problem, if it feels like a problem to you report me! Just because you dont like the truth you get your feelings hurt, heres a bandaid, feel better?

How am I wrong again? Nobody has come up with answers to my questions on whay this should be a Pontiac GTO, just "it's fast" and "thats what GM is calling it" !!

magnumforc nice try to display me as the "bad guy" however I have been the only one posting without attacking a "person" so ummm your wrong again?!

Answer me why a American Legend can be made in another country, and powered by a Chevy?

How could I even stop people from poasting, you and everyone else can ignore me, but your trying to get your point accross just like me, the only problem is that nobody can tell me any good reason why this car is a Pontiac GTO!

Get over yourself dude LOL!

As far as the 4th i'm have a ball, i'm not even at home posting this! I am also useing Free Speech or free typing here right now.

I also gave for this freedom, and I will use it..

I'm keeping this peaceful, and am asking good questions!

You are not asking good questions anymore, you are being redundant and annoying. No one said you were wrong. The bottom line is that everyone HERE likes thier pontiac. Nothing you say is going to change that. If you don't like the GTO badge, take it off and but a monaro badge on it. Or, if you are so die hard pontiac, buy one and put an original judge motor in it. If its so cheap to build a old poncho motor, you will make a killing selling the LS2. Shit, i'll even buy it from you!

Answer me why a American Legend can be made in another country, and powered by a Chevy?

Boy are you hard headed! Pay attention now because you have been told this several thimes before in more than one thread.

Chevy does not make an engine! All GM engines are GM Corporate engines and GM only makes automatic transmissions.

The LS2 is made in Canada.
The auto trans in the GTO is made in Toledo.
The manual is made in Mexico.
The GTO is ASSEMBLED in Oz.

I also have a 2001 Buick GS, it was made in Canada. It has an L67 super charged engine in it which is also used the Park Ave, Impala, Monty Carlo, and the Grand Prix. So is my GS an American car and American powered?

I asked you in another thread what your definition of an American car is, but you never answerd me, why?

Maybe he just wants to have an arugment. Or debate if he thinks that choice of word is better.

Maybe he just wants to have an arugment. Or debate if he thinks that choice of word is better.

I think we'd be having this same issue were this a Ford board and he had an older Ford. With engines being made in various countries, entire vehicles being made in Canada and Mexico for importation into the US (Crown Vic for one, all Police vehicles come from Canada) and Ford engines being placed in all Ford "family" vehicles. The same 4.6 SOHC in the Ford is in the Mercury and the rest of the "family" of vehicles.(with the exception of the DOHC engines available in certain models, but still a Ford engine) Same with Chrysler and the Hemi. How could anyone have a Dodge with a Chrysler Hemi? For shame!

As many have pointed out, for economy, manufacturers do not necessarily make engines specifically for vehicle lines anymore. Making the same engine for different vehicles in different plants was one of the poor manufacturing procedures that got the American car maker into their problems back in the 50's-70's, not to mention their union issues and poor quality. Now, if GM made this "Chevy" engine in the old "Pontiac" plant, would it now be a "Pontiac" engine, simply because of where it was made? No, it would still be a GM engine and not a Chevy or a Pontiac because, as rzkz8k pointed out, again, all GM engines are now Corporate Engines. There are no longer specific line engines.

Bottom line is like it or leave it alone. 'Cause it ain't gonna change.

Amen, haha. Wow, thats extremely true dude. Thanks for pointing that out. As much as i tried pointing it out too.
Cody

Ok so now find me saying "They were faster" in my post???

It's everything the GTO should not be, and IT'S A SICK TRICK TO GET PEOPLE TO BUY A CAR!

You said the following in one of your posts:

"I'm talking about an American Legend built to out run everyones car."

Also, why should the GTO not be a car that handles well?

I'm 30 sport, and a chevy powerd car is a chevy!
You 100% wrong about the number of people who hate chevy powered Pontiacs, and your car is a CHEVY, your a chevy guy who drives a Chevy, you cant fly a Pontiac flag and buy Chevy parts for your engine!

Soooooo you getting all red nosed and trearie eyed is not helping things...

You drive a Chevy...

How is a Marcos TSO a Chevy?

Marcos sports car (http://www.seriouswheels.com/top-2005-Marcos-TSO-GT.htm)

http://www.marcos-eng.com/

How is a Mosler MT900S a Chevy?

http://www.moslerauto.com/

So happy to see everyone write in :)

Ok here we go..

The PMD engine is a Pontiac idea made by Pontiac, even it it was cast in Chevy plant A it's a Pontiac engine. The way you talk we might as well talk about what "was" the steel being melted from/of!

" I got a 9'' Ford rear that its then a Ford?"

As I said before, the engine is the heat and sole of the car, not the rear seat and not the 9".

"thats just the way it is now days."

So your saying that it happend, and nobody can do anything about it?! I find quitters talk like that, my words would be, "Thats F'ed up""What a lie" or "just about everything I have been posting" and not suport it in any way, like everyone should do to FAKEs and Phoneies that sell you out.

"redundant and annoying"

You sound upset, maybe you don't like hearing the truth?

"The LS2 is made in Canada.
The auto trans in the GTO is made in Toledo.
The manual is made in Mexico.
The GTO is ASSEMBLED in Oz."

Boy are YOU are hard headed! , I dont care if the Ls2 was cast on the moon, it's a Chevy engine by Chevy!!! Hello were your eyes open when you read what I wrote?

I care that the engine is a CHEVY by family and it's in a car being called a Pontiac GTO.

Since some of you are typeing out of anger and not reading what I write I will make my point clear.

I'm talking about ONE (1) car this AussiChevyGTO not any other car , OK kids?

All GTOs have allways been powered by a Pontiac engine, it's what made the car a Pontiac, the fact that it has a big fast Pontiac engine in it made it a GTO, even tho you could build a Lemans the same way. You all would love to put this car in the same area that every other car in GM is, it's not it's a car that burned Birghtly and burned out, twice as bright as any other GM car ever was, and since, it's more then any other "fast" car has ever been in GM because it was the FIRST MUSCLE CAR EVER, tho Chevy made faster cars, but they never had the "attraction" of a GTO. SS vs GTO come on guys what would you rather look at? the boxed face SS's or the 110mph sitting still looks for the endura front end of a 72 GTO?

An American car that became a Legend, now remade by the Aussis with a small block chevy???????????????


This car was GMs #3 underdog that changed everything about making a family car fast, not a fast car first, it was a family car (Tempest, Lemans) first, then it became the car we know it today a GTO.

This car did so well that Chevy sales droped , so GM responded by limiting Key HP parts so that Chevy in the end could get back it's sales. If GM is GM why would this have happened? why not Chevy engines in the GTOs in the 60's and 70's? I know all of you will back me up on this point because you know it to be true, you guys however are saying "well pontiac V8s are gone, so why not a Chevy engine?"
am I correct on this???

Because it's not what a Pontiac was or should be, Pontiac GTO ment that you had a ram air engine under the hood, it had different power making RPMs then a SBC, it's had tons of TQ off the line when chevys had to get up around 4-5Gs for the same power! Then they FOOL you by calling it a RAM AIR engine in this Bastard car, it has NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY PONTIAC ENGINE, it's a sales ploy, a BS hope you buy into it BS story!

The F'ed up part of this is real Pontiac people HATE CHEVY ENGINES, they are proud of the PMD V8 it was easyer to work on and parts were easyer to replace and at the time Pontiacs had better heads then chevys with Pontiac heads machined not "as cast" like chevy, and it was an underdog in the well funded Chevy engine world. Thats why I hate the engine!

It would be like if we ran out of soldiers and replaced them with Jar Head Marines in Army uniforms.

Some of you dont accept it because your argueing this because you have a Chevy powered Pontiac, and I dont expect you to diss your own car, so you guys with your little "team" go and hug and painting each others nails is no surprise to me, I kinda like seeing how you guys still cant answer my questions, you keep talking about other cars and they do it all the time now, "not yes this car is powered by a chevy and made outside the us on some Aussis bule print table, and sure it's a fake but it's fast , thats why we like it! I dont care about the real history of the GTO, it hasnt been made in years so it's ok it's not what it should be!"

You people know this is true, you have to, but your pride is showing, and you cant accept it!

GM took away the comp between it's own members (Chevy, Pontiac, Buick, Olds RIP) it was a crappy thing to do, they painted a very colorful picture "Chevy Orange" and ruined great auto names, what we have now at Pontiac is Chevys with Pontiac raps, not Pontiac Vs Chevy Vs Old Vs Buick, but just Chevy Vs Chevy. Thats it, it's pale and sick and without integrity!

But we are still not done with GM, it has a marketing plan to sell you "the great one" again:

GM guy: Lets use a car Idea from the Aussies and sell it over here.

GM Chevy guy: Sure thats a great car, lets put one of our SBCs in it, then it will fly!

GM guy : That sounds great, but how do we sell a import with our SBC in it? It's got to have a great gimic!

GM Chevy guy:(draws another chest full from his crack pipe) Lets call it the new GTO HAHAHAHAHA!

GM Guy: Thats a great Idea it's been so long since the cars been around people will buy it!

GM Chevy guy: I was just kidding, whos going to buy a Chevy powered imported GTO? Didnt GM get sued for useing a SBC in place of an Olds Rocket?

GM Guy: Yes we did, but who cares,times have changed, people dont care about the GTO legend, they just want a GTO, so they can say they have a GTO, people are stupid, they would buy it for the paint job!

GM Chevy guy: Ok, lets do this car...Umm man use more lube, i'm starting to hurt!

GM Guy: I'm allmost done!


Whats said hear is that everyone with a Chevy powered Pontiac is GM Chevy Guy, and your all getting it from GM Guy!

It boils down to "who cares".

I do.

I care that the name of a Pontiac GTO can be slaped on a import with a non pontiac engine in it.

Can't you see that GM used up a great name on an imported car with a chevy engine???

Just because it's fast does not make it a Pontiac GTO, GM may be calling it that, but you all should know better! So of you see my point but then turn and say "it's just the way it's done now" like thats ok,

Are you so shallow that you would by a fake legend because of speed, or name? Some of you who did must!

It's a sad day when an American can be bought on a fake GTO with fast 1/4 time.

well, since you put it that way.........i still don't care. Infact, im gonna have my 350 stroked to a 383, have pontiac engraved into the sides of the block and valve covers and buy a huge sticker to put down the entire length of the car that says "pontiac power".

Sounds like you like to bash guys that want a nice new car.
What do u REALLY expect a new GTO owner to say? Thats what i want to know. Do u REALLY think they bought thier new gto because of the name? Seriously, if the name was selling the cars thier would be a shit crock more of these babies around. People are buying this car based on price, performance and looks---not the badge. Its got the performance, but cost too much and looks too tame.

well, since you put it that way.........i still don't care. Infact, im gonna have my 350 stroked to a 383, have pontiac engraved into the sides of the block and valve covers and buy a huge sticker to put down the entire length of the car that says "pontiac power".

Sounds like you like to bash guys that want a nice new car.
What do u REALLY expect a new GTO owner to say? Thats what i want to know. Do u REALLY think they bought thier new gto because of the name? Seriously, if the name was selling the cars thier would be a shit crock more of these babies around. People are buying this car based on price, performance and looks---not the badge. Its got the performance, but cost too much and looks too tame.

If we keep this thread going it will pass the "New GTO love it or hate it" thread!

Import38, we found common ground!!
Yep I dont expect a new GTO to come out and say "well your right, it's not a GTO"
yep I think it cost too much and looks tame! Untill 1970? a GTO could be bought for a few hundred more then a LeMans, this is also what the so called GTO has a issues with, it's not really buyable to the lower middle class..Deloren wanted a fast car that could be bought by the average Joe or jane, and he made it possable for a tempast and Lemans package that could be ordered cheaper then the GTO and do just about the same 1/4 or better, I say better because in 71 and 72 the endura bumper was much heaver then the stamped steel Lemans.

I would think some people would by the car because it's "fast" but I think more people buy the name on the car, think about that, would you buy a colbolt or a GTO if they cost the same?

"Sounds like you like to bash guys that want a nice new car"
No I never said at one time that this car was "slow" or a bad performer. I said it's a lie. I also said that anybody that has a Chevy engine in a Pontiac is driveing a chevy, however I never "bashed" anybodys car, however if you think me calling your car a "chevy" is bashing, you have alot of hope left in you!

Your letting anger rule you with that BS engraved Pontiac stuff! Think about it, your half pontiac, you like the looks but you dont buy into the Pontiac engine! Pontiacs have allways looked better then chevys or just about anybodys cars.

The fact is, your cars heart and sole is a Chevy, it's a Chevy! Your car will allways be a "seen it" "done that" with a chevy engine. The engine is so over used it's sick, sure the car will be fast, but when dose just being fast make the car? If you were to put a true Pontiac engine into your car how many people do you think would be gazing under your hood and asking questions, compared to the same car you have parked next to you with a seen it 1,000,000 times 383?

Without getting snootie at me or getting pissed, answer that question . I would hope that you answer this question honestly..

And I would like to hear from all of you that have chevys in your Pontiacs, how many of you would like to have a real pontiac under the hood over your car?

Answer this honestly, you wont be giveing up anything to me by answering with "yes", and I will not toss it in your face later on, thats my word, and my word is solid!

ok, i want a pontiac. So, i shouldn't buy that pontiac because of the chevy engine? Then what do i buy? I don't like ford engines, i don't like crysler looks, and i certinaly will not buy and import, because im about tradition--and im talking american name--obviously not built in america. So what do i buy? Sure i may want to build a "real" poncho. But time limits doing that for the avaerage person who wants one "now". So my question to you is---WHAT WOULD YOU BUY? It can't be earlier then a 90's era car. U can't do an engine swap either. Your other limit is it has to be under 40 grand.

Let me know. We are all eagly waiting, ready to take notes. :rolleyes:

I'm glad you asked this,
I have allways like the looks of late 90's grand Prix, I would get a black one with the supercharged 3800 engine in it, the engine has all kinds of bolt on and aftermarkt engine parts including heads! The engine is 100% nobodys, it's not a chevy nor a pontiac, it is a true GM engine not made or stamped by anyone.

I could not argue that it is not pontiac or that it is.

The only problem I see with it, is being Fwd, however people are doing low 13's all day with the driverside headlight removed. I know they make a kit that replaces the pully on the supercharger that gives it extra boost. With aftermarket heads and hedders and a cam kit you will be eating up alot of cars that would race you just for an ego trip.

It's allso cool that you get some of your dash readouts reflected on the windshield so you dont have to look down. I would also lower it just a little and put some sloted rotors on it.

The plus side to this car is that it's not alot of doe to get one, figure going by the 40 grand you could invest in a new "built engine" as the bulk of the money and work up slowly with other mods.

A grand Am with the same engine would also work.

Another car would be the pontiac sun fire, it has a real pontiac 4 banger in it, and i'm sure with as little as 3G you could get a turbo kit along with some innercooling.

Another sleeper would be the Pontiac Montana trans port Van, gut that fat girl for weight and remove the rear seats and build a big Alum. water innercooler in the back for the engine, after you get a turbo kit.

Thats some crap getting beat by a van!

I was curzing with my buddie in his 72 Monte, it had a 355 and a "mild" cam, Edl, 650 carb and the 2.02 SBC factory heads.It was heavy but he had 4:10s and a 12 bolt with ladder bars, and his stage 2 shift kit in the Th350 made it "seem" quicker then it was. Anyhow we were out looking for a race, we ended up raceing a few cars that thought they had something and beat them easy, well this lifted JUNKie looking K5 pulled up on the passengerside (my side) and reved the piss out of the engine, and with no muffler on the end of his Y pipe it was loud. He says "i'm just have'n fun" and my buddie hammered it as the light changed.

That Blazer kicked our buts, it never spun a tire and left us, it was gone, my buddie took me home right after that. It was embarrassing, and it wasnt even my car!

I do know what your saying about your car, however you do have a chance now that your moveing on up with your plans for your car.

Sure the cast of adding a Pontiac in your car would be like building a BBC, and the chassie engine mounts would need to be changed as well as an adaptor plate to go from your trans to a Pontiac engine.

Sure it would not be cheap, and I really dont expect people to do that who dont have the time and money. I would never take up that project if that was my only car and I worked paycheck to paycheck.
However I can do it now, if I was to do it, I would get the last F body run T/A like Lotus's car and sell off the engine or make I cool urinel out of it. I would use one of my 400s nothing wild, 40 over with a roller cam WITHOUT a loped idle, I want it to be stock feeling, I would also try to use the factory air box. I would use black valve covers, and use a TPI kit for induction, I think I could use the same PCM with a chip, the only voodoo would be the pontiac fire order VS chevys.

It would grab a few heads as they walked by and expected to see the plane jane SBC and notice that my water cross over looks odd, they might even ask if I have an AIR GAP intake, and I will tell them "all Pontiac inatkes are air gap type.

I think most any pontiac looks great , even the hated Aztec. I just hate the chevy engine.

I have the movie of the T/A eating that import on avi or mpg if anybody wants it.

I'm not geoing to be around for a week, i'm sure some of you wish I was gone longer.

Drive it like you stoled it!

I disagree with you. 1- Watch the GTO commercial. the GTO goes up against a BMW at the traffic light, not a Mustang. (there's a reason GM chose to use a BMW, not a mustang.) 2- The GTO is 40K+ (luxury sport sedan pricing), not 25k (mustang pricing) 3- conservative graphics/ lines. Not aggressive like the T/A was. Again, appealing to the market of a luxury sport sedan consumer base 4- I have friends who design at GM. When they tell me GM's plan for that car (it was intended to go up against BMW), I believe them.

Now, the GTO should NOT be this. It "should" be an affordable 400hp car. (40K is not bargain pricing) It should be selling for 25K loaded. If it did I'd bet that car would sell like the dickens. It "should" have aggressive scoops, graphics, a "judge" package and killer rims. This type of thinking worked in 1964 for Pontiac. They couldn't build enough of them. If they did this today I believe it would work.

But then again in '64 America wasn't over saturated with lawyers and people looking to sue everybody for anything. Gm may not be able to afford legal defense against them being sued for making available a car with loads of power to the youth market. It woudl be deemed "socially irresponsible" and maybe this is why it's out of the price range for the average american.

look i am sorry but the GTO here is $33,000 sticker price. now 45k?? come on now look it up its on the pontiac web page!gm has to atleast have a test vehicle for altleast a year or so to get ppls opinion about the car. 2005 they did add hood scoops, bigger motor, duals in the rear, and you could get factory ground effects. so whats the big fuss over it. im a ford guy but paying 26k for a 300hp car that needs a little help on the exterior, compared to a 33k 400 hp car plus more engine upgrades and better interior, i think it is a good bargain. if you go out and look the next closest thing you can get in a 400hp car is the cobra, charger srt8, and the vette which costs way over 40k!

"gm has to atleast have a test vehicle for altleast a year or so to get ppls opinion about the car"

Well I hope the next time they do this, they try not going to the "Center for the Blind".