Well, I was driving to school (during lunch), and I saw this silver new celica with the action rice package... its some lil asian guy(no offense intended) who could barely see over the steering wheel(im only 5'7, so i know hes damn short!) He looks at me, and revs at the light. Light turns green, I spun even tho i only revved to 1,800 rpm and feathered the clutch hard, his door was at my front bumper until i shifted into second, spun like crazy(like 2 secs, damn 175's cant handle the 128 lb ft of torque lol, yea..) Then i started to gain on him, up to about 75 his front bumper was at my rear bumper... Then i put on my hazards and slowed down cuz i was slightly pulling... He then flicks me off, and spins his tires around the corner. So?? He was upset his "fast" looking action package weighed him down and just made him LOOK fast? sheesh c'mon people, lighten up!

good kill,oem rice is still rice:D

funny - maybe stress release and racing would be the right forum :D

good tho

Is the "Action Package" the Celica GT-S? Cuz if it is, you must either have some major mods on your car, or else the Celica driver was really shitty. A stock Celica GT-S should beat a stock Prelude VTEC (4th or 5th gen) given equal driver skill.

You're obviously not running on a stock motor. Celica GT's run 15.8 at the 1/4 and GTS's run low 15's, high 14's.... Depending on the year.
A good driver behind the seat of an Integra GSR could easily take a GTS because the GTS takes serious driving skills to run good times. It's not the hp that makes the GTS fast, it's the close ratio'd six speed gearbox. Plus, the 2002 Celica GTS' come with a premature 7700 rpm limiter, meaning it doesn't reach it's peak horsepower. And when you have a six speed tranny, and you don't reach peak hp, you have six REALLY low performing gears. It's easy to drop from 14.9 to 15.5 in a GTS if you don't shift right.
Plus he might've had a GTS automatic, if he does, then it's possible for you to pull on him in a stock dx motor with a 5 speed because you NEVER see good horsepower with a GTS paired with an automatic tranny.
And to the person who said a GTS can take a Prelude 5th gen... With equal drivers it depends on the Prelude. The Type SH is slower because of the heavy, power pulling torque transfer system. A regular Prelude DOHC Vtec 5th gen will tie up with a 2000 model GTS (1/4=14.8) but a Prelude of the same gen will take a 2001-2002 GTS because of the rpm limiter. Plus... a moron could drive a 5 speed Prelude and still pull consequetive 15.4's on the track. Put that same moron in a GTS and he'll pull high 15's, maybe low 16's on the track.
Nissan tried to copy Toyota's concept of the GTS with their Sentra SER Spec V. It performs really crappy at the track because of HOW short the gears are, you don't get to use maximum horsepower of the engine with the six speed. I have a feeling if you had a Spec V with the 5 speed transmission from the regular SER, you'd pull high 14's stock.

Originally posted by Honda Boy
his door was at my front bumper until i shifted into second, spun like crazy(like 2 secs, damn 175's cant handle the 128 lb ft of torque lol, yea..) Then i started to gain on him, up to about 75 his front bumper was at my rear bumper... Then i put on my hazards and slowed down cuz i was slightly pulling...

Okay? First off, the only Honda motor with 128 lbs. of torque is a GSR motor. And if you have a GSR motor in a dx hatch or 2 door coupe, then it's a no brainer that you got him. Plus, on stock tires, only a GSR motor will pull a second gear chirp that aggressive.

Good kill tho...

The whole hp to weight theory doesn't apply to Celica GTS' because they live off of their six speed tranny. If they had a five speed they'd get smoked so hard....

dude i used to get third gear chirps on my stock tires

I can easily chirp the tires through three maybe four gears, but then again. . . . . . .

Nice kill, I hate Toyota Celicas, they are ugly.

i am pretty sure i remember honda boy saying he had a swap back when he was HYBRID boy. And the action package that everyone thinks is the celica GTS is just a bigger spoiler, new groung effects, and different rims. that is what he ment by weighing him down. and no one gives a rats ass about what the celica GTS can do!!!:flipa: :flipa:

this thread needs someone to come in and get the facts straight.

Unfortunately I'm not the one to do it but I'm pretty sure you can get the action package put on ANY trim celica as an option. So it could have been a GT or GT-S.

I have a b18b1 LS engine, and all i have installed is my cold air intake and my exhaust, i dont have a spare tire, no backseat, and some interior parts stripped. MOST ls civic coupes run mid-lkow 15's stock, ls hatches do high 14's low 15's, and gsr hatches/coupes run at least low 14's. And the rreason why i spin like mad in second gear is because my tires are skiny as fuck, give me some 195 x 15's and ill barely chirp.

it was a 6 speed gt-s rice package one with the 200lb body rice kit ...

For perspective, the first article that Car and Driver ran on the Celica GT-S with actual track testing, they were only able to squeeze a 16 flat in the quarter.

i've heard that the celica's are not all that and pretty much are all show..does anyone know the hp on them?

supposed to have 180

the gt has 140 hp and the gts has 180 hp. I heard the action package usually only comes in the gt models and you have to special order a gts with the action package. i dont know if its true or not.

and all those freaks in their celicas drive like they have a turbo underneath their hood:hehe:

tru dat.. i'd say 99% of the action packages are gt's .. but it is possible to get the gts with the action package.. tho very rare..

theres an action package GT-S here in lawrence for sale and they want 26k for it. rediculous

That Celica kidrocket told about has been sitting on the lot since the beginning of last fall, at the same price. We picked up the SS for $26k when it was four months old, which would you have chosen?:D

Justin

Originally posted by Honda Boy
...who could barely see over the steering wheel(im only 5'7, so i know hes damn short!)Maybe he was too short to push the pedal all the way down... :lol2:

You guys talk a lot of sh*t about Toyota. First off I don't know what you've heard, but you got it backwards. The Celica action package is a dealership offer for the GT-S, and you can get it ordered for the GT.... Not the other way around. I've already seen like four GTS in one day with action packages, seen the engines, seen the badging. Oh and the GTS that Car and Driver ran 16 flat on, had a premature 7500 rpm limiter that was a glitch in the car's ecu. How fast would GSR's be if you had to shift at 7300 rpm in every gear?
Oh and like I said, it's not the hp that makes a GTS fast, it's the close ratio'd six speed tranny.
A Celica GTS stock with the 78-7900 rpm limiter that it's supposed to have will run an easy 14.9-15.0 flat in the 1/4 with interior and stock tires. My guess is that the guy didn't know what the heck he was doing. This is why I almost beat an Integra GSR in the 1/8th when I was stock with my slow a$$ car... The other guy said he was dropping the clutch at 2,000 rpm flat because he didn't want to peel out for a long time. (what a dumba$$)
In a Celica GTS if you don't drop the clutch at anything about 4500 rpm, you're looking at 8.2 0-60 and 15.9/15.8 1/4 mile time. oh and the Celica GT runs 15.8 at the 1/4. .1 of a second slower than the 160 hp Civic Si. I said I didn't like the GTS because it's over-rated, but I never said that it's slow. It's slow the majority of the time because no one knows how to drive it. The only Honda/Acura that can take it STOCK FOR STOCK... Is an RSX Type S, (maybe) Integra Type R, NSX and S2000.
They CAN be very fast if you put the right driver behind the wheel of one. My friend's ran consistent 15.1's stock at the track. Once on a real good day, (temperature, engine condition) he ran 14.9, his is a stock 2000.
The Car And Driver times for the 2000 factory sold Celica GTS is 0-60 in 6.8 and 14.8 at the 1/4

Yeh i agree with S2corolla. Hey i work at Toyota and they do have the action package gt-s model. I'm not a big fan of new skool cars ...ANY cars but i do love the ALL TRAC CELICA and the 2tc and 3tc engines:D OH those are my favorite toyotas. Yes the celicas arent' that quick and yes the price on the action package is pretty damn high and the dealer that i work at doesn't carry them. Well you can only order it cause they don't want to take up space on the lot ;) I belive that Honda Boy beat that celica cause of his swap. Thats whats so great about swappin is that you have the rite car cause of its weight and the rite engine cause of its power to help the lighter weight car be much quicker. Hey i know this Puerto Rican dude that has the twin cam gt-s '89 corolla. Its my friend's friend and he wanted me to race him. Lets just say i had to give up on 2nd gear:( I have no clue what that guy did to his car but that shit was quick!!! Oh and his bro has a i think a '78 corolla 2tc engine in it and he runs 11's constantly. SO yeh corollas aren't bad at all...i don't like the new ones though..just my opinion ..no offense S2corolla. :) Well anyways nice race Honda Boy.:)

dude I watched my friend burn a celica GT in his bone stock 1990 integra GS auto, riding 3 deep, and im sure that teg doesnt run a 15.8

Yeah don't worry about it. I'm in the process of getting an Integra GSR or a 5th Gen Prelude. I was gonna get an RSX Type S, but with 4,000 down I'd rather have REALLY low monthly payments, the RSX can wait until I pay off whatever DOHC Vtec I get. I mean don't get me wrong, it would be nice to get a Celica GTS or a Se-R Spec V.... But I drove both, and I drove a GSR a lot, and I drove a Prelude a couple of times. Nothing gives you a better feeling that chirping second gear in a B18C or an H22A. Seeing a 5.0's headlights in the side mirror as you pull third gear in a GSR is a great feeling. Getting slapped in the face by the Se-R's 6100 RPM limiter isn't a good feeling. Having an Integra GSR staying a car length ahead of you during an entire race behind the wheel of a GTS isn't a good feeling either. I mean every time I shifted my friend, the owner of the GTS said, "Don't worry you'll get him in this gear..." But no, that GSR stayed ahead. The whole way...
But driving a GSR and taking out an IROC is a great feeling. Racing a Prelude against a b16 hatch and winning is a great feeling.
Chirping third gear with the sound of the third rocker arm letting that cam lobe open her up is a GREAT feeling.

all u guys w/hondas are the same, u swear hondas are the best...i own a 01 gts, and reality is gsr, si(oh please),or preludes could not even touch a celica...i know this from experience.i've seen s2000s get smoked by a gts,not once ,but twice.if u ever go out to races...u know what im talking about.gts puts 3hps shy to the wheels than a honda itr,in a car body lighter than a civic coupe.ur talking about a yamaha developed 1.8l vvtli engine w/11:5 compression matted to a close ratio 6speed tranny vs. an ancient b series motor...unlesss it is turbo or spend mad $$$ on internals, its not gonna happen!!!:o :finger4:

you make me laugh. A stock celica couldnt run 14 flat with god behind the wheel. thats what the S2k runs. and if youre comparing a modded celica, whoopdy shit, there are modded hondas that will beat S2ks as well.

If Si's are not worthy to waste gas on, ive walked on several GT-S celicas, one of them was modded quite nicely too.

Us guys w/ hondas?

stick around and youll learn that probably only about half of us in here drive hondas, and aside from a few bad seeds, we dont care who makes it if its fast.

Originally posted by kidrocket
you make me laugh. A stock celica couldnt run 14 flat with god behind the wheel. thats what the S2k runs. and if youre comparing a modded celica, whoopdy shit, there are modded hondas that will beat S2ks as well.

If Si's are not worthy to waste gas on, ive walked on several GT-S celicas, one of them was modded quite nicely too.

Us guys w/ hondas?

stick around and youll learn that probably only about half of us in here drive hondas, and aside from a few bad seeds, we dont care who makes it if its fast.

I think i know why the s2000 got smoked. Well i've been hearin that they are very hard to launch? Anyways if you can drive an s2000 theres no way a celica can beat it. I work at a toyota dealer and i've driven the gt-s before its pretty quick but not fast.

that may be, but that doesnt make the celica fast, it makes the S2K driver stupid.

Originally posted by kidrocket
that may be, but that doesnt make the celica fast, it makes the S2K driver stupid.

Yeh thats very true.:D

Originally posted by S2Corolla
You guys talk a lot of sh*t about Toyota.

I jus talk shit about Corollas and Celicas. Toyota makes good cars, but get real, the Supra is the only car that Toyota makes that can truly be called a sports car, besides the recent line of Toyota cars are just plain ugly.

Oh, and I am a little shady on your 1/4 numbers there. I HIGHLY doubt that they can 14.8 in the 1/4 mile and 6.8 0-60. Someone at Car & Driver must be smoking crack, because I have race A LOT of Celcia GTS's and they don't stand a chance, and the numbers you are posting are around what my car runs, slightly slower, and those GTS's can't even keep up with me.

Where did I leave that BS flag.

Here comes the Toyota brigade again:rolleyes:.

People, people...just freaking race and tell us about it, k? Instead of bickering about what this and that car runs...

Personally, I've never driven a GT-S, but I know someone who bought one of the first ones here in Phoenix when the GT-S came out. He's looking to trade it in now...he complains about how slow his car is.

Okay Polygon, you've gone too far with that post. First off... You talk a lot of trash about being unbiased and what not, but let's get something straight, your ugly (IMO), well if I wanna state my OPINION, your a$$ ugly junker is just some turbocharged beast that's supposed to go heads up with 5.0's. The GTS has been called a great car on Sport Compact Car and most other compact car tuning magazines. If you know so much, tell me where you work that you have such a Godlike grip over the rating of automobiles. I've seen slightly modded GTS' run mid 14's at the track with full warranty still covered, on STREET TIRES. Just like most other people see Integra's running mid 14's on street tires. I know it's hard to believe TRD did it again with all your hardheaded "I love Honda and nothing else" motif, but if you take a look at history, Honda was pooped on by most car lovers back in 94' and around that time. Toyota's barely making it's move in sport COMPACT cars and you guys talk trash? I wanna see a STOCK Integra of any type other than Type R take a Celica GTS, or a stock Civic or a stock Prelude. It is NOT going to happen.
Talking trash about a Corolla is one thing. But talking trash about a Celica is different. The Celica GT runs high 15's, which last time I checked, is the same stock time area as the GSR and the Si... Hmm... Makes you wonder.
Oh and carrrnut, you talk like you're some unbiased car God. You just talked down on the Celica, have you ever seen a professional driver race one?
I saw a Celica GTS, barely broken in on stock internals and stock EVERYTHING, stock tires... etc... Break off a modded H22A Prelude that WAS 5 speed. What are you going to say to that? The Prelude driver was sorry? How the hell would you know? Were you there? I saw the Prelude jump the Celica GTS off the line, and in between mid 2nd gear and high 3rd gear the GTS caught up to and pulled on the Prelude.

I agree with liquid8 on this one, and it's not because of my Toyota car. I've shown nothing but respect to GSR's and Si's, and then when Celica's brought up, nothing but flames.
You guys are all pathetic, and that's my honest to God opinion. You all are on this board too much, so I really doubt any of your knowledge on cars, which doesn't come from the internet or your friends' rides, but from being out there at the track, being at the race meets and being in my car port, messing with my car.
I'm not even going to post my opinion about the GTS becuase you all have this Honda attitude that makes you all disgusting. I think it's a mistake that Sport Compact Car made this forum for all of you because in an earlier post you guys said the drivers of their magazine are smoking crack? Yeah, great way to show appreciation for their gift to auto enthusiasts.
You think this whole message forum was made for Honda enthusiasts to walk on like it's their red carpet? Well kidrocket, this is for you :flipa: and the same to anyone who disses a car they know NOTHING about.
Oh and kidrocket, I'll race you if you really wanna know how great your Civic Si is. And when I beat you, know that I've never kept up with a Celica GTS passed 20 mph, even after the ported and polished cylinder head.
So if I beat you, and a Celica GTS smokes me? Wouldn't that mean, that they can smoke you beyond any recognition? I believe so, so race me, and keep the facts straight, don't BS if you lose, and don't BS to keep from racing me.
Oh and Polygon, I've seen LeBaron's exactly like yours with the 2.2 turbocharged inline 4 engine, 5 speed, lose to bone stock Civic EX's, so don't talk about a car based on driving skills okay? Get that out of your head because the main reason there are more fast Honda's is because more people race Honda's, so there are more good drivers behind the wheels of Honda's than Toyota's, if Toyota was as much mainstream as Honda, then they would be dead even when it comes to ALL DRIVERS....
God you people make me sick.

To Liquid8 and S2Corolla:

What the hell crawled up y'alls asses??? You are both surprised that a honda forum is more biased towards honda products? What kind of ignorance does that show? You both act like the Celica GTS is the do-all, end-all of sport compact cars. Fact of the matter is, why is someone going to buy one of those over-priced POS's when they can buy a cheaper car and give it a run for it's money? All I ever see of Celicas are those that are sitting on a lot, cause no one gives a crap about them. You both need to get a true sense of reality.

Also, S2Corolla, do you know how stupid you come off as when you're challenging someone 1500+/- miles away? Everyone knows that's not going to happen, so why even bother pulling that crap out of your ass? That comment in no way makes you come off as the better or higher person.

Stick to what is possible and truthful in the future, or don't whine when others voice their opinions...:rolleyes:

when did i ever claim that my car was the supreme being?

dont think your car is the shit either with a paltry 15.5 though.

And did i imagine the GTSs that ive walked on? i dont think so.

when did i ever attack your car either? all i said was there is no way a stock GTS could walk on an S2000 with a competent driver, because a chimp could beat that car with an S2000. That is not because i am honda biased, put that GTS up against an S4 or a mustang GT or some other car in the same class and the result will be the same.

you challenging me online means absolutely dick to me. youre just words on a page to me.

Oh and i PMed you a long ass time ago and you havent read it yet

so:flipa: :flipa:

im sad to report that ive seen a ITR lose against a celica GTS 4 times, run after run. :( dont hate on toyotas, they are way more popular than honda when it comes to building up a fast car in japan (the mother country)

Okay, I'm going to try and end this arguement with one last post.

First off, I apologize and I retract my previous statement. Kidrocket, you're right, I didn't check my private messages and I apologize for the :flipa:, but you have to understand, you said so yourself in the PM, a car is a car regardless of badging. Have you seen one post on this thread giving a positive response to the GTS? If you go into a Corolla/Celica message board, there is no bad talking Honda there. I know because I've been a member of my home on the internet, www.cthreeracing.com for nearly a year, and there has never been a thread bashing Honda that wasn't cleared up. Some people come on and bash on Honda, and even I, a driver of a Toyota defended Honda in all aspects.

To adress the earlier issues using intelligent words rather than rash, and quick responses without analyzing the posts, I'll speak of the whole Celica GTS vs. S2000 issue.
The S2000 is without a doubt a sports car, not a sports compact car, it's like comparing a steak dinner to a combo at Jack in the Box, so I won't even bother bringing that up... But I will point out the fact to all of you Honda enthusiasts, that you all should know as well as I do, what is the outcome of an S2000's performance if the driver doesn't drop the clutch above 5800 rpm?

Now about the GTS pricing and issues evolving around the GTS' owners. As I said in an earlier post, Honda is mainstream, the only thing that isn't mainstream about honda is the B20 swaps and their aftermarket backbone. People buy GTS' and most of the time are satisfied with their performance and styling for the first two months, but are angered by the fact that it doesn't have any aftermarket support and the fact that you have to be a quick and skilled driver to pull those low 15, high 14 time slips that they're supposed to be known for. Now the pricing of GTS' is completely based on area. I've found GTS' six speeds with action packages and accessories, with only 4,000 miles on them for 17,000$ sticker price. And I HAVE seen GTS' six speeds running for 27,000$, but the reason those are the ones you see the most is because who would be dumb enough to buy that car for 27,000$? A week after a GTS hits the used market for under 19,000$ it is sold almost immediately. If you see an Integra Type R 2000 for 17,000$ how long is that going to last? But if you see a bonestock Integra Type R for 28,000$, its going to be there a while, unless it's a 2001, which they only made 500 of, then it will probably be priced higher and last shorter.

Now I have seen Type R's beat GTS' just as much as I've seen GTS' beat modded Preludes, it's all in the driver. I drove a GTS, and I will admit, I sucked with it the first few runs, but after I got a feel for the launch and shift points, I just saw the speedo moving up rapidly. Some people just don't try to learn, they think that they have a 6 speed 180 horsepower sport compact car, they can just step on the gas and take out Vipers. Well I speak in favor of all track lovers when I say, that's BS, you HAVE to know how to take off perfectly, to gain traction at the right time, and peel out for a considerable amount of time, and considering the GTS doesn't have LSD and it has more hp than torque, it's very easy to lose too much traction off the start.
Hopefully, you'll all read this post and understand it fully.

S2
that was a very intelligent and thought out reply, and you are right. until joyride on this page, i dont think there is anyone supporting the GTS. I do like that car quite a bit, but i have quite a tough time believing it is equal to the S2K. thats all i was trying to say earlier.

I will also admit that i know very little about the GTS, as i dont drive one, and they are relatively new platforms. The honda VTEC platform has been around since the 80s. I would expect some more advanced technology by now.

This forum would not be half as fun if we didnt have nonhonda drivers posting either.

To all of you who speak BEFORE you pull your head out of your ass:

I have owned as many Toyotas in my day as Hondas (3 each).

This street/track forum is for posting races WE (regardless of vehicle WE drive) engage in/encounter as we drive our vehicles. You just look like an ass if you sit there saying you saw this, you saw that, this car ran this ran that, when it supposedly happened months/weeks ago. If it was that special, why didn't you post it then(newbies are excused)? You guys notice, I moderate this forum, and I haven't posted a race in a while...I haven't been in or saw any races worth posting about yet.

If you guys actually race or spectate as much as you guys claim, freaking post them and make this forum a livelier place. Otherwise, these are just words and don't really count for much.

As for me posting races...I have decided to go for a b20b hybrid in my four-door:D...can you say sleeper? I was debating whether or not to get a b16 and mod it or a b18 for a thousand more less modded. Well, I found out I can get the Frankenstein for about the same money as buying a b18 outright. I called HASPORT (if you haven't heard of them, you don't care about fixed-up Hondas:p) today and they told me with stock pistons, they were able to extract 175HP to the wheels from a b20b with a b16 head. It comes without saying I'll be posting races more frequently next month:D.

P.S.

The first line of this post is meant for EVERYBODY, including me...I get THAT stupid sometimes too.

Originally posted by liquid8
I wanna see a STOCK Integra of any type other than Type R take a Celica GTS, or a stock Civic or a stock Prelude. It is NOT going to happen.


Well I own a stock Civic thats 10 years older than the Celica, and faster. Does that count?
or does your narrow minded America is the only civilised country in the world mind not accept that?
And its not the only Civic model thats faster, in fact every Civic generation since the EF has a model thats faster than any model Celica expect the mighty GT4.

The new Celica is a nice car, it certianly looks better than most Civics, and its deffintly a move in the right direction for Toyota, its certianly a better car than the old model. However it really needed another 6mnths work done on the engine and suspension. The VVTi-L is not as good as it could be, and needs work. And the suspension is still too tuned towards the wanna be road warrior, offering lots of understeer and a softish ride to keep all the wanna be racers happy on thier morning comute to work.
But Toyota is a very smart company once you get past all the accoutants and marketing consultants, and I have very high hopes for the performance of the next model Celica.




Now, please forget everything I just ranted about, and read what Carrnutt said. :D

Well I have to address a few things here.

1. I am allowed to have my own opinion, and I don't think I have my head up my ass. I think the new line if Toyota cars, trucks, and SUVs are ugly. That is my opinion and damnit I am entitled to it. Go ahead and say my car is ugly; I don't really care, because I think it looks a lot better than a Toyota Celica.

2. When I said that there is no way a Celica GTS could run 14s in the 1/4 mile I was talking about a STOCK Celica. Shit S2 and liquid, you guys take to defense too quickly. You call me biased but it is alright for you trash on anyone else who doesn't share your opinion, that my friends is bullshit. I am not that biased but I can't like every car out there, sorry.

3. I doubt very highly that you have seen a GTC Turbo 2 loose to a bone stock Civic, there is no way, unless the driver is dumber than a rock or there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with the car. I KILL, and when I say that I mean litterally KILL Celica GT and GTSs all the time. I don't even waste my time with stock Civics. There were only about 200 of my car made in 89 and I have yet to see one in the condition mine is in. I have only seen three other GTCs. One that was completely junked out, one that was a 90, and one that was the automatic. You bring any stock Civic, Celica, Corolla, or Prelude out here and I will hand your ass to you. And I have never posted a race of me killing Mustang 5.0s. And for you information, there are people that run low 9s in the 1/4 mile with LeBaron GTCs with little modification.

Don't call me ignorant, because I do know my shit about cars. You know NOTHING about mine, so that makes you the ignorant ones.

Well, I was talking about USDM Integra's or Civic's, why do you think I didn't mention the Civic Type R? If you like to bring up JDM or over seas cars, then I'll bring up the Corolla T Sport, and I would've called it the HONDA Integra Type R, not the Acura Integra Type R, because if I'm not mistaken, I mean I could be wrong, but isn't Acura purely American, or left hand drivers' sided vehicles? I thought the NSX, Integra and such were Honda car's in Japan???

Oh and carrrnut, the reason I didn't post anything earlier is because I don't like posting race stories, track stories, I just defend whatever manufacturer is frowned upon whenever someone comes on and says, "I beat a Celica so Celica's are super slow, grandma cars!!!"
That's when I have to step in. Believe me if some gear-headed Mustang driver came in and said, "I beat a Civic with an ironing board on his trunk, Civics are gay and so are all of you!" I would be standing on Honda's side.
I hate the fact that you guys never mention the fact that there are Honda drivers that can't drive for crap, just like there are Toyota drivers who can, and vice versa. Don't diss a car because you beat it. Diss the driver. And if you get beat, give credit to both the driver and the car, because it takes two to tango, and if one isn't right then te other won't work right either.
Plus, I'm not going to post a Toyota kill in a Honda board. But I stand neutral in all ways possible. This might be a Honda board, but Toyota drivers should be able to post in this board without worrying about flames from here and there. This isn't some gang wars town with "Only the strong survive" spray painted on our winshields. We are ALL car enthusiasts, and a true enthusiast knows the golden fact, "A car is a car, regardless of badging, given the right driver and the right wrenchtime, anything can pull hard."

not all celicas suck.....the new ones do, I'll give you that, but I have a 1990 celica gt that was running 15.5's with the stock 2.2 before I did the engine swap... I blew it up, cause it had 180000 miles on it.... So I decided to transplant in a japanese spec 2.0 liter 3s-gte out of a celica alltrac. I have upgraded the intercooler to front mounted, installed larger intercooler tubing to the intake and from the turbo, also put in the jap spec wiring harness, along with the jdm computer, installed a manual boost controler, cold air intake, and metal head gasket. My car has a aerospeed bomb muffler on it, along with polyuerthane suspenion components... I have gutted the cat, and had the throttle body enlarged with an oversized throttle plate. I have a TRD short throw shifter and TRD 10" clutch kit. only problem is I'm still running on just slightly wider than stock tires. I have posted high 13's, low 14's and routinly blow the doors off of new celicas...along with my girlfriends 98 prelude S ;) If my 60ft time didn't suck so bad, I'm conviced I'd be running low 13's. I hope ya'll don't think all celicas suck..... :p

Originally posted by 1990bluecelicagt
not all celicas suck.....the new ones do, I'll give you that, but I have a 1990 celica gt that was running 15.5's with the stock 2.2 before I did the engine swap... I blew it up, cause it had 180000 miles on it.... So I decided to transplant in a japanese spec 2.0 liter 3s-gte out of a celica alltrac. I have upgraded the intercooler to front mounted, installed larger intercooler tubing to the intake and from the turbo, also put in the jap spec wiring harness, along with the jdm computer, installed a manual boost controler, cold air intake, and metal head gasket. My car has a aerospeed bomb muffler on it, along with polyuerthane suspenion components... I have gutted the cat, and had the throttle body enlarged with an oversized throttle plate. I have a TRD short throw shifter and TRD 10" clutch kit. only problem is I'm still running on just slightly wider than stock tires. I have posted high 13's, low 14's and routinly blow the doors off of new celicas...along with my girlfriends 98 prelude S ;) If my 60ft time didn't suck so bad, I'm conviced I'd be running low 13's. I hope ya'll don't think all celicas suck..... :p

How did u manage to get an awd engine on a fwd?

Originally posted by mellowboy


How did u manage to get an awd engine on a fwd?


Its the G.box not the engine that makes it 4WD.

The 3sgte he swaped in is basicly the Turbo version of the 3sge thats in the JDM version of the Celica. So its a very easy swap to do. and very effective.
Makes for a damn fast Celica to.

yeah, what he said, it will bolt up to a celica gt auto or manual tranny, or a gt-s a/t or m/t, but not to the celica ST tranny's.... It isn't recomended on an auto, so I put a celica GT-S 5 speed in out of a 93 model because it has closer ratio gears in some of them. Plus all mine is jap spec, so its making some ponies, and you gotta put good stuff in that won't break :p

To clear up the whole AWD engine confusion. The 3SGTE was also used in the 90-93 (don't remember the generation years) MR2 Turbo. Stock that car ran 13.9, it was Toyota's sporty, two door, two seater car, you know how the MR2 is now. It has that sporty, pretty boy appearance. The engine can be used for multiple platforms, it can be rear wheel drive if you drop it in a non turbo MR2, but it will be rear mounted too, and all you have to do is get custom fabricated motor mounts to mount it backwards and make it front engine front wheel drive. And if you can get your hands on a Celica GT4 drivetrain you can make it all wheel drive with the G.box, or you can spend about 39,000$ to find and buy an official 1993 Toyota Celica GT4 All Trac... (Good luck on that one) Those can easily be tuned up to 400+ horsepower on stock internals.

umm yeah sort of.
Not the right place to say this but..


The 3sg(t)e was untill recently Toyota's main stream DOHC 2l engine.
It showed up in a variety of differnt cars and platforms from the mid 80s in the first of the FWD Celica untill the last of the MKII Mr2s.

It can and is often used in frount engine RWD conversions by fitting either a Celica or Supra 5sp g.box, and is very popular down here in Kit Cars.

It basicly the same accross all models and all years, (its a Toyota after all) and needs no special modifaction to be taken from an MR2 and put in the frount of a Celica. Although the sumps and mounts are a little differnt.
The MR does not have the engine turned around, it's simply moved to the back of the car. Infact most of the rear suspension is of a similar design to whats in the frount of the celica.

And you can not make the MR2 or FWD Celica into a 4WD by simply useing the GT4 g/box. You also have to find a rear or frount diff (for the MR2) and have to worry about the wee problem of cutting the body shell to hold the drive shaft and differnt rear subframe. It can, and has been done, but IMO is a waste of time.
Also the GT4 was made and sold in quite large numbers in Japan. A used import can be had down here for as little as US$2,000 for a road legal running car. Thank you FIA Homolgation rules. :)


Now, back to the topic:



Celicas sucks asssssssssss....... :rolleyes:

would you like to race mine since they suck...I happen to like my celica very much, because it is comforatble, women like it, its quick, and its just fun to drive and a challenge to find parts for....but hey if they suck, you wanna race?

Originally posted by 1990bluecelicagt
would you like to race mine since they suck...I happen to like my celica very much, because it is comforatble, women like it, its quick, and its just fun to drive and a challenge to find parts for....but hey if they suck, you wanna race?



aha? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Is it jsut me or is the maturity level of this thread suddenly heading in a really really bad direction.

Have a read of the whole thread, and go learn about a thing called sarcasim...... :rolleyes:

man, I was just playin....I'm just saying I drive my celica cause its fun to drive...it has a great well built interior, and its a good looking car....but I love honda to death now also....like I said, my g/f drives a 98 prelude S I talked her into selling her 2000 civic dx w/ intake exhaust and header and getting the prelude, cause the H22A is an awesome engine with loads of potienial....not ragging on honda or anything, but my celica is quick :p I'm just trying to get into the 11's like everyone else :p

First Off:: POLYGON
U have NO right:mad: calling a Celi Gts ugly... including the one with the Action pkg... jus take a look at u're car.. not too eye appealing now is it..??

2nd::

Honda Boy...
that driver of the GTS probably couldn't drive he should have atleast kept up with u.. and could've beaten u as well.:D

[QUOTE]Originally posted by StageOneGalant
[B]First Off:: POLYGON
U have NO right:mad: calling a Celi Gts ugly... including the one with the Action pkg... jus take a look at u're car.. not too eye appealing now is it..??

QUOTE]

He can damn well say anything he wants to, it's his freedom to do so. Opinions hurt nobody, except the weak minded. What else do you think a forum is for, besides opinion an fact? And for the record, I agree with Polygon wholeheartedly. I'd much rather have polygon's sleeper than that action package crap.

Originally posted by BlkCamaroSS
He can damn well say anything he wants to, it's his freedom to do so. Opinions hurt nobody, except the weak minded. What else do you think a forum is for, besides opinion an fact? And for the record, I agree with Polygon wholeheartedly. I'd much rather have polygon's sleeper than that action package crap.

Thanks man, that felt good to hear. And congrats on a very fine car.

Oh, and Mr. Stage 1. Maybe you should re-read all three of my posts in here before you get your hose in a bunch.

well... since the thread isn't about a celica vs an integra...


honda boy has a hybrid, which is most definitely quicker than the car that the motor came out of. his car would easily beat a celica (new one) at all.

and from what i have seen with great drivers, a new celica runs around 15 even (this is last year at the track) compared to type r's that run in the 14s...

and on the thing about the s2k...
whoever said "what would happen if you didn't launch the s2k above 5800"...

do me a favor and go out and ask anyone to half assedly launch any car and then try to run a good 1/4. if a car is designed to be driven a certain way at certain rpms, then that is it. if you need to launch a s2k at 5800, then so be it. that would be like saying, "hey, shift your celica at 6500, before your peak power, and tell me what it's like"

the answer is the same... it is a less than stellar outcome...

surprise...

Originally posted by S2Corolla
To clear up the whole AWD engine confusion. The 3SGTE was also used in the 90-93 (don't remember the generation years) MR2 Turbo. Stock that car ran 13.9, it was Toyota's sporty, two door, two seater car, you know how the MR2 is now. It has that sporty, pretty boy appearance. The engine can be used for multiple platforms, it can be rear wheel drive if you drop it in a non turbo MR2, but it will be rear mounted too, and all you have to do is get custom fabricated motor mounts to mount it backwards and make it front engine front wheel drive. And if you can get your hands on a Celica GT4 drivetrain you can make it all wheel drive with the G.box, or you can spend about 39,000$ to find and buy an official 1993 Toyota Celica GT4 All Trac... (Good luck on that one) Those can easily be tuned up to 400+ horsepower on stock internals.

13.9 from an MR2 is very optimistic. Fastest I've heard/seen them run stock is about a 14.3....What do you say, MAURICE??

im w/polygon, celicas are ugly and only girls should drive them.

regardless of facts good kill.............

I drive around like i have a turbo under the hood...........

thats because i do!!!!:D :D

i won't comment on any of that stuff... i drive a 2000 toyota celica gt-s.. i'm not even gona get to involved cause this post is way out there somewhere... no reality left... one thing tho, the S2000 is a great car, better than a gt-s and i like it... S2000 vs GT-S = S2000 most likely wins... Si runs what? 16? GT-S can run 14s... don't believe it? think i'm lying... heres' proof, a celica website of celica 1/4 miles time and it includes their mod list and everything... and the thing that celicas are ugly? please man, you're making yourself look retarded.... the celica isn't the shit... no doubt, a celica isn't the fastest car out there... but it's not slow... once the turbo and superchargers get out will you still call it slow? anyway here's the website... Camaro SS and Mustang GT are out of the celica's class no comparison there... if you're still think the cleica is slow i have two videos of celica gt-s racing an Integra Type R maybe you'd like to see that.. actually lemme post the link right now

http://subzero.mine.nu/celica/beginning.mpg = Toyota Celica GT-S vs a RSX Type S

http://subzero.mine.nu/celica/race%206.mpg = Toyota Celica GT-S vs Honda Prelude

www.newcelica.org once ya get there let it load and to the right it should say dyno list, 1/4 mile times etc, look around.... hopefully some of that info will clear up the uneducated confusion

i've also got the turbo awd. i don't even want to get started on toyota vs honda but..... okay a honda civic is an economy car. it has very good gas mileage and the reason for that is b/c it burns very little fuel, and by burning low amounts of fuel you get less power, and less power = grocery getter. sure there are fast hondas such as the s2000 and the nsx. but someone earlier was talking stock vs stock. okay well lets compare honda's best vs toyota's best (the mkiv tt supra) and the toyota would win hands down. on a drag strip or a road course. i've seen s2000 run 15's in the 1/4 mile and thats with a decent driver at the wheel. so that seems to show that s2000's can be hard to drive perfectly as well. i've seen countless civic's and crx's with intake, exhaust, altezzas (toyota styling right there), rims, lowered and running at best a low 16 in the 1/4. but at least they still have their good gas mileage.

also about vtec...that seems to be worshiped by so many honda people like its a turbo or something. vtec is merely two cam profiles, one for getting very good gas mileage, econodriving, and another that is just as aggresive as many other stock cams on other cars. the vtec system is just something that gives you good gas mileage without making the car drive like a dog all the time. so don't over glorify it to be a godsend.

and honda civic's are everywhere, they are the mustangs of imports....unfortunately they are slower. sure they have lots of aftermarket parts to make your think your car will be different. but in all reality your car will be just as common as the next guy who has put the same crap in his car. there is something to be said about rarity. and in my city i can see about 30 civic's in an hour while as i might see 3 or 4 new celica gts'. and i have only seen one with the action package. and besides it seems like a lot of the honda boys are just jealous b/c they can't get factory bodykits. b/c thats all i see is honda guys taking off their honda bodypanels and getting aftermarket. the list goes on and on at how honda is just crap.

shit wrong links...


http://www.celica.net/videos/Road_Racing/2000_GTS_vs_Type-R.mpg

can't find other link right now

im sorry i cant contain myself and stop laughing....homeboy with the lebaron saying a celica is ugly. please!

LOL Krossfyter

Ok to begin about Polygon's statement "I dont even race stock Civics" Duh neither would I. Just like Celica Alltrac said, they are an ECONO car. Why waste my gas to race an econo car? Take any stock civic 95 and older, vs my stock 90GT, and I'll show you whats up. You guys and your oversized bicylce tires (stock)... Dont even hate on Celicas. Polygon says his 1990 GTC is faster than stock Toyota Supras... What is he thinking? "Hello, im God behind the wheel of a Lebaron! I can smoke ANYONE, maybe i'll appear in F&F 2 when it comes out".. To all ya'll haters, watch out for Celicas.. Were on the rise. And about Toyota being "Mainstream" ... Look on the nations streets and highways.. 90 Hondas for every 15 or 20 Toyotas... You guys are mainstream.. More made, cheaper to produce.. Thats obviously why more people have Honda. But you get what you pay for. Thats your problem!

You guys make me laugh.. I hate these "My car is better than yours" things.. Why even bother with these simple mindless threads ? I only saw this on the "Celica.net" and decided to come over and see what all the "talk" was about.. Let me tell you I was thoroughly entertained by people's stupidity and ego's.. lol. Well, I thought since everyone else gave their opinions, why not give mine as a fellow import enthusiast?

First off, let me remind you guys that a Honda Civic is a Japanese economy car - now don't blow your lid before you get your panty's in a wad. There (as we all know) multiple trim levels in the Civic.. DX, HX, LX, EX... wow, as far as I am concerned, these are grocery getter's stock (weather 5 spd or auto). Now let's talk about what Honda has done here - transformed the Civic unto 2 different levels: The SI and Type R. These are great sport compacts ! The Type R is one of the top cars on my list of cars I desire - too bad they weren't released on US Soils.. I laugh at all of the Civic "Type-R" stickers I see.. The SI is a great platform and has wonderful aftermarket support - and I will say that at the drag strip I had a chance with a boosted SI - It surprised me what My 2001 GT-S did that night ! I actually beat him - with a 14.93 quarter mile mind you, at 96 MPH. You know, that car would have been fast if it didn't have 18's on it.. Oh well, there is rice for you. And you know what ? I have been beaten on several occasions by SI's and Type-R Integras.. why ? Because I suck as a driver ? Is my car slower because of a 11.5/1 compression ratio ? Who know's.. and who cares anyway ? We all know that VTEC was superior back in the late 90's.. but with its aging technology (8-10 yrs ?) it was bound to be surpassed. WOW ! Imagine that ! I Toyota Celica owner giving prop's to the lego car of the world a Honda Civic ! Geez... :eek:

Toyota and Yamaha got together and designed a whole new engine platform for Toyota.. the flagship is the 2ZZ-GE. Toyota took Honda's idea, and made it better.. Incorporating (already used in Lexus cars..) Variable Valve Timing - (sure VTEC does this somewhat, but not at this superior level). The CPU continuously advances/retards the ignition timing to Toyota's direct-ignition coil packs. This is where VVT-i derives from - and Yamaha/Toyota also incorporated the "L" in there.. Lift ! The magical word heard about to all Celica enthusiasts. Using a more sophisticated method of oil pressure to "kick in" (per se) the larger cam lobes opening the valves more for better breathing of the engine. There is more to this 100 HP per Liter engine - but I wont get into it. You guys probably won't read anyway -- and Yep, Toyota used the idea of Dot Matrix alloy for cylinder sleeves from Honda.. but who really cares ? If you look at the 2ZZ-GE and the B18C (I think..?) on paper.. they are nearly identical in bore x stroke, but does this really matter to you ? NO: your stuck inside this surreal world of "My car is the best car on the planet." I don't see any Honda Civic pumping out 100 HP per liter STOCK, besides the Type R. Go ahead.. run a Civic EX 5 Spd. off the lot against a 6 Spd. GT-S off the lot.. suprised ? Now add a CAI and a true cat-back to both.. suprised ? Celica GT-S: mid/high 14's on a good day.. Civic ? Stuck in the 16's.Take a stock EX to a road course and take a Celica GT lets say.. who will win ? I think the Celica will be more sure-footed.. Id put my $$ On the Celica. Now lets get the Type R Integra in the mix and we have a real race ! To sum this all up.. sure, we all love our cars and have ego's.. but you know, sometimes you just have to face the truth and wake up. No mater where you go.. someone else has something better and faster... so please all of you "one track minds" out there - do some HOMEWORK and quit bashing because it is an opposing car manufacturer... oh yeah, G-R-O-W U-P !

HyOctane

BTW: I didn't know that awesome cars were only good in the quarter mile.. I though a true sports car was well rounded, good 1/4 time, good slolam time, good 200 Ft. Skidpad, short 60-0 distance, and safety ? Hmm.. I must be misteaken.

wassup hyoctane?? hey man i couldn't have said it better myself... props to you on that one

Jesus this thread is still at the top of the list? this is my first time online since may, and this piece is still up lol.

OK here goes. Hondas and Toyotas are both great cars. end of story. each company has some tight cars and some lemons. i cant believe i sat through that many pages of posts that all say the same thing, with the companies names reversed

Originally posted by HyOctane

I don't see any Honda Civic pumping out 100 HP per liter STOCK, besides the Type R.


Really? I see one everyday. Infact I see at least one everyday. Theres normally two parked at work, and god knows how many are on the roads around here.
The SiR is made in quite high numbers, there would certianly be more of the them than the new Celica, and everyone of them, from the EF to the EK is faster.



And as for honda only making economy cars? well guess what, Toyota do exactly the same thing. The celica is really nothing more than a glorified Corolla. Just like an Integra is nothing more than a glorified Civic.
Infact the new Corolla wagon is avlaibe in Japan (as the Caldina?) with the 180hp Celica engine. Hows that for a fast shopping cart. :D


And you cant list very high sales numbers as a reason for a company to suck. As a method for evaluating the sucess of a bussiness generaly the company with the highest sales is considered the best.
And quite simply Honda beats Toyota in North America. Toyota has an edge in Japan, (leading there for a VERY long time) as well as being a sales leader in most of the south pasfic, (where it competes head to head with GM and Ford, and often wins). Im not to sure about Europe, where Honda's involvment with Rover, and a lot of local produdction gives them a better public image than Toyota. And I believe they might be ahead in sales numbers.
And then there is the small fact that Honda has been such a succesful manufactor that they are the only Large Independant Manufactor left in Japan, and one of a dwindling number left in the world. Toyota had a large chunk baught out by GM some time ago.


all that said though, I can't wait for the next generation of Toyota's VVti-L engines to come out. Toyota has a strong history of building excellent engines, although they often start with an inferior product. i.e. the old 2tge is a good engine, but totaly crap when compared to its replacement the 4age (one of the best 4cly engines ever made)
I think you will find the new Celica/Corolla engines will follow the same path as the 2tge. Good engines released to test the market, that will soon be replaced be something quite awsome.

But I will still buy a Honda over a Toyota. Simply because I happen to prefer Honda's enginering style over Toyotas. Not because one is better than the other. (and for the record I own both)

My God Mpooie.. you have TOTALLY lost point in my post. How about I clarify myself.. I dont see any USDM Honda Civic's pumping out 100 HP Per liter. Please read what I said.. Did I ever say anything about Toyota not making econmy cars ? Nope.. I was specifically pointing at the Civic and the Celica.. and were talking United States Domestic Market. You guys are lucky over in Europe/Japan.. In the US they have some stupid backwards ways to keep emissions down (daym tree huggers...). Anyhow, who cares about numbers of cars sold, etc.. ? Both Honda/Toyota make wonderfully reliable cars - I Almost purchased an Integra Type R in yellow.. but the interior egronomics of most Honda's are awfull IMO, and the Integra's body style was aging - so I was shuned away..

[EDIT]: Oh, BTW.. Toyota is it's own seperate intity.. It is a sole proprieter by itself and It was never bought by GM or other manufacturer.. although it maybe traded on the US Stock Market. So I have to say this again.. Do your homework

HyOctane

Originally posted by HyOctane
but the interior egronomics of most Honda's are awfull IMO, and the Integra's body style was aging - so I was shuned away.. but keep up your ignorance and you will never know what you are missing.. BTW Lets take your SiR to the twisties and see how it does compared to an AllTrac or a new GT/GT-S.. ugh, you people make me sick...


Yeah, for some reason Honda Keeps designing cars for short ppl.
It dosnt bother me, but then im not the tallest guy on the planet.
The estior styling of a car has never really bothered me. Infact I cant really think of any expcetionaly good looking Japanese cars. Prehaps the 240Z, or the old MK1 MR2.


As for how my SiR will compare against a GTs or a GT4? well Iv walked on both in a straight line, and round corners. :D (im talking a 1990 model GT4, not a newer one). But then I think you fail to realise just how differnt from a standard model Civic my car is. So calling me ignorant makes you a hypocrite. :finger:

oh yeah.. Am I a hypocrite ? I Did retract my statement above when I edited my post after thinking for a second that I have not had my hands on/experienced a SiR as they were not released in the wonderfull world of the USDM.. BTW, our world of auto's suck over here.. lol..

HyOctane

Originally posted by HyOctane
BTW, our world of auto's suck over here.. lol..



Yeah, as far as Japanese performance cars go, you guys really did get screwed.
No one seems to know why though. Emissions laws in Japan are just as strict, as are the safety laws.
The only reason I think of is the Japanese didn't want to get in to hp wars with the Americans, and were quite happy to dominate a market segement the American maufactors were slow to pick up on. i.e. small econo cars.
And Toyota did a great job of leading the charge in to the US market, and could be hearlded as the ones who succeded in opening it up to Japanese Manufactors.

And while you guys are drooling over some of the Fast cars in Japan were drooling over the likes of Vipers and Corvettes. Cars we see only very very rarly down here. (being they are not made in RHD).
We had a 1990 Chevy Van StarCraft at work the other day, it was attracting huge crowds of ppl from the lunch bar next door. Meanwhile the Lotus Elise parked next to it attracted very little attention. While the Elise isnt a common car here, there are more of them than there are Custom Chevy vans.

That is crazy to think about man.. I had a cousin in the USAF and he was based in London - He said that people would do anything for a American pick-up truck.. go figure.. lol. They are a dime a dozen here ! As with Corvettes.. there are atleast 5 seen a day here.. and Vipers are pretty popular also... lol. But I would definatly buy a C5 Corvette and ship it over there.. trade it for a nice M3..

Oh.. I have always wanted to know.. How popular are Pugeo (sp?) 206's ? I see them in the rally races and I would LOVE to get my hands on one of those cars... I'll trade you a '90 Chevy custom van for one... lol

HyOctane

As for how my SiR will compare against a GTs or a GT4? well Iv walked on both in a straight line, and round corners. (im talking a 1990 model GT4, not a newer one). But then I think you fail to realise just how differnt from a standard model Civic my car is. So calling me ignorant makes you a hypocrite.

haha. what kind of conditions were you racing under? b/c the gt4 would murder a sir in wet or snowy conditions. thats what the car was designed for. also you are in a modded civic while as i bet the gt4 was stock. so what would happen if he modded his car as well? oh how the tables would turn in all conditions. and if you wouldn't mind me asking what have you done for mods? 1/4 mile times?

Originally posted by Celica Alltrac


haha. what kind of conditions were you racing under? b/c the gt4 would murder a sir in wet or snowy conditions. thats what the car was designed for.

Oh god.

ok.
Dry road, up a hill over a crest into a tight well cambered left hander.
And it was the first shape the GT4 came in, so about the same year as my Civic. (A newer one, (like your shape) should be faster than my car. But then with a 2.0L turbo it bloody well better be.

And my car is totaly stock. Totaly.
The pics of it are in my Sig.

This engine place in Canada can accept your 3S-GTE (GT-4 Engine) and do all of the internal workings, and garranty it will have over 400hp and run between 22 and 27psi. $3500.

Originally posted by krossfyter
im sorry i cant contain myself and stop laughing....homeboy with the lebaron saying a celica is ugly. please!

FUCKING HELL people! I can't like every car, sorry. CAN I HAVE MY FUCKING OPINON? No, well FUCK YOU! I like the looks of my car and I can guarandamntee you that I'm not the only one.

Originally posted by KansCelica90
Ok to begin about Polygon's statement "I dont even race stock Civics" Duh neither would I. Just like Celica Alltrac said, they are an ECONO car. Why waste my gas to race an econo car? Take any stock civic 95 and older, vs my stock 90GT, and I'll show you whats up. You guys and your oversized bicylce tires (stock)... Dont even hate on Celicas. Polygon says his 1990 GTC is faster than stock Toyota Supras... What is he thinking? "Hello, im God behind the wheel of a Lebaron! I can smoke ANYONE, maybe i'll appear in F&F 2 when it comes out".. To all ya'll haters, watch out for Celicas.. Were on the rise. And about Toyota being "Mainstream" ... Look on the nations streets and highways.. 90 Hondas for every 15 or 20 Toyotas... You guys are mainstream.. More made, cheaper to produce.. Thats obviously why more people have Honda. But you get what you pay for. Thats your problem!

1. My statement about Civics was in regards to someone else, read all the posts next time.

2. My car is a 1989 GTC, big difference, and you moron I never claimed I beat a beat a Supra you ignorant prick. Once again, you can kiss my ass because my LeBaron will walk all over BOTH your cars.

If you people are going to make ignorant comments to defend yourselves don't bother posting at all, I have thus far done so, but you people continue to push me over the edge. And honestly I would LOVE to see a stock Celica run 14s in the 1/4 mile.

Here is the just of it, and this is the last damn time I will say it.

Toyota makes good cars, IN MY OPINION; the current line is lacking looks wise. I don't care for the looks of the current Celica. I would gladly take one from the late 80's or early 90s they looked good. The Celica is NOT a sports car, the Supra was Toyotas sports car and they dropped it, and it looked great besides. You people hate my car because it's a LeBaron, because of it's name. I wished to hell that Chrysler would have given a different name. In Mexico the LeBaron GTC was the Phantom R/T, sounds a lot better to me. You probably wouldn't rag on it if it had that name, and that is exactly why you make fun of it. Oh and let me remind you that the LeBaron GTC, GTC stands for Grand Touring Coupe, and it was raced in GT races, so don't give me crap on that.

I like Toyota, I just wouldn't buy a car from them right now because I don't like the looks, and I am tired of Celica and Corolla drivers thinking that their car is the shit all the time and when anyone says that their not they have a damn tissy fit. That PISSES me off. I don't mind people ragging on my car, you guys can have your opinion, it is when you do it repeatedly and then get mad at me for having my opinion I just get sick of it.

Originally posted by Polygon
FUCKING HELL people! I can't like every car, sorry. CAN I HAVE MY FUCKING OPINON? No, well FUCK YOU! I like the looks of my car and I can guarandamntee you that I'm not the only one.






no one said you must like every car. no one said your not aloud to have an opinion.

you like you car...thats good. im not saying you shouldnt. im not saying you shouldnt do anything for that matter. im simply using a common literary style which employs such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect....its called irony jack ass... and your statement that a celica is ugly and the fact that you have a lebaron was IRONIC to me. thats all homeboy.
nothing to get pissed about.

Good kill to the original poster of this thread. But by no means does this mean all 7th gen Celica's will be that easy. Even those with an Action Package. Besides, the Action Package isn't the only stock 'rice' car out there. Yah, the latter 2G DSM's. Phat spoilers, aggressive front end, turbocharged, AWD. Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX and Eagle Talon TSi AWD. Wanna take on some of the more tuned ones? Oh wait, they're making 300+HP, doing 11's, and kicking ass on the autocross to boot. Guess they're too goddamn ricey for some of u Hondah boyz.

But wait, there's more. A fuckin Toyota with a hood scoop and melted jellybean look. Fuck me, a GT4 aka Alltrac. ST185, 3SGTE, AWD, turbocharged. In fact, a few magazines criticized the look of the Alltrac until the 2G DSM arrived with a similar look. Let's think about it kiddies, a Celica with a look that isn't in but will soon to be followed by other manufacturers. Well ain't that a muthafuckin bitch. Not to mention, the legendary 3SGTE. Capable of 400+HP with the right mods. If that ain't enough, its a WRC champion too. So your precious shit will get bitchslapped in the dirt too.

Ah, I remember reading about some peeps here talkin about the Supra. Only true Toyota sports car car, huh? Well, guess where that fuckin Supra came from? Ever heard of the MK I Celica-Supra? How about the MK II Celica-Supra? Know your history cause the Celica is rooted in automotive pride and heritage.

http://www.celicasupra.com/history.htm
http://www.geocities.com/~yoshi83/story.html

Some of you foos will suck a Supra owner's left nut just to touch his ride. Well, you can suck our left buttock if you even wanna even think of touching ne of our rides regardless of generations. You think just cause you haven't heard shit about any Celica's kicking ass that the Celica is a weaked toothless fucker that can't do shit against your rides. Well, guess again. Bring your shit to www.celica.net or www.newcelica.org and we'll bring ours. You'll find 7th gens pullin low 14s with only bolt ons. You'll find 3SGTE conversions for both the 6th and 5th gens. If that ain't enough, well look what we have here:

http://www.sfrscca.org/solo2/Results/2002/Championship/round8.html#sts

Yah, we reppin on the streets and we reppin on the track too. What the fuck is the most dominant car in that round? Celicas. Hell, there's even a lady Celica representin. Celicas in the autocross. Guess it pays to have some great handling that'll match an Integra Type-R.

Shit, Celicas can kick ass in the straights and in the turns. Plus, the AWD ones can whop ass in the dirt as well. We ain't gonna say we're all that, but we ain't taking shit from some ignorant fucks who wanna call our rides weak and ugly. But hey, you all wanna be in your own little private world thinking just cause one little kill over a Celica means that all Celicas are weak, then go for it. Cause when reality bitch-slaps you upside the head, its gonna hurt a lot more. Then you'll realize there's more to life than your little stolen Hondah emblems or your turbocharged LeBaron making 205HP (ROTFLMFAO!!!). Celicas, Supras, AE86's, MR2's, WRX's, GTi's, scary Neons with phat turbochargers, and of course, DSM's.

BTW, a message to Polygon. You have your opinion and you are free to express it all you want. But here's mine:

Your LeBaron is the most fugly piece of shit I have *EVER* laid eyes on.

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=212570&cat=20&val=100

Aww man, your ride must've been the shit back in the late 80s. But hey, it's all fine and dandy cause you modded that bad-boy, right? All 205HP with an estimated 2800lbs of that man-bitch of a car. LOLZ!!!

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=212570&page=2

Well looky here...here I was thinking *my* Laser's interior was bad. This is the little buttmonkey that said the 7th gen Celica was ugly? Tells me where your taste lies in. Yah, in the lines of "please take a razor and slash my vinyl to hell taste." I can see it now, "Please help me! The boxy interior is ravaging my mind. I see dead Volvos now...!"

Now what's up with this poll?
New intercooler & BOV/Wastegate.
New wheels.
Paint job.
HID "style" lights.

WTF?! HID "style" lights? Dude, that's just some halogens with Xenon gas and a slight bluish tint in it. Frickin $10 a pair if you look around. Just get it over with and buy the shit. Or even better, get it over with and sell your car or donate it to a fuckin charity...oh wait, just send it to the dump. Put that in your little poll. You know I'll vote for it.

But hey, it's just an opinion. I got mine and you got yours. Just that yours is as useful as a $10 glow in the dark Hondah emblem that's eventually gonna get stolen by emblem-fairy. :D

-Rich

Rich comin through!!!!!

atta boy!!!

dude that was heavy. props to Dragonknight for that one.

much respect, much respect.:D

whoa rich let it all out lol... :D :D

Originally posted by krossfyter




no one said you must like every car. no one said your not aloud to have an opinion.

you like you car...thats good. im not saying you shouldnt. im not saying you shouldnt do anything for that matter. im simply using a common literary style which employs such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect....its called irony jack ass... and your statement that a celica is ugly and the fact that you have a lebaron was IRONIC to me. thats all homeboy.
nothing to get pissed about.

A lot of people sure as hell act that way.

I'm sorry if I came off a little brash, it is just that you are the fourth person in this thread getting on my case about my opinion.

Shit, Celicas can kick ass in the straights and in the turns. Plus, the AWD ones can whop ass in the dirt as well. We ain't gonna say we're all that, but we ain't taking shit from some ignorant fucks who wanna call our rides weak and ugly. But hey, you all wanna be in your own little private world thinking just cause one little kill over a Celica means that all Celicas are weak, then go for it. Cause when reality bitch-slaps you upside the head, its gonna hurt a lot more. Then you'll realize there's more to life than your little stolen Hondah emblems or your turbocharged LeBaron making 205HP (ROTFLMFAO!!!). Celicas, Supras, AE86's, MR2's, WRX's, GTi's, scary Neons with phat turbochargers, and of course, DSM's.

I never said that the Celicas are horrible, I just don't think they are a sports car STOCK like about 98% of the Celica owners think they are. You can mod it to be a pretty damn quick car, which is all I am saying. You are simply coming after me because I stated my opinion and I drive a LeBaron. People have said worse about Toyota in this thread than I have, why come after me? Because of the car I drive? Grow up.

BTW, a message to Polygon. You have your opinion and you are free to express it all you want. But here's mine:

Your LeBaron is the most fugly piece of shit I have *EVER* laid eyes on.

That’s fine, you can have your opinion, but you know damn well that it isn't the truth. You must not see too many cars.

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=212570&cat=20&val=100

Aww man, your ride must've been the shit back in the late 80s. But hey, it's all fine and dandy cause you modded that bad-boy, right? All 205HP with an estimated 2800lbs of that man-bitch of a car. LOLZ!!!

No that car is completely stock. You know nothing about the LeBaron. You know nothing about the engine, the turbo, or the drivetrain. And yes, I have had my car weighed and it weighs 2800 pounds.

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=212570&page=2

Well looky here...here I was thinking *my* Laser's interior was bad. This is the little buttmonkey that said the 7th gen Celica was ugly? Tells me where your taste lies in. Yah, in the lines of "please take a razor and slash my vinyl to hell taste." I can see it now, "Please help me! The boxy interior is ravaging my mind. I see dead Volvos now...!"

I will give you that, I don't care much for the boxy dash panel, but my seats are leather not vinyl, and there aren't any pictures of the seats so how would you know?

Now what's up with this poll?
New intercooler & BOV/Wastegate.
New wheels.
Paint job.
HID "style" lights.

WTF?! HID "style" lights? Dude, that's just some halogens with Xenon gas and a slight bluish tint in it. Frickin $10 a pair if you look around. Just get it over with and buy the shit. Or even better, get it over with and sell your car or donate it to a fuckin charity...oh wait, just send it to the dump. Put that in your little poll. You know I'll vote for it.

What is wrong with my poll? Let me explain something to you, the reason I say HID "style" is because that any and I mean any HID system you buy aftermarket is NOT a true HID system. You would have to buy the ENTIRE system which nobody sells. To get a true HID system you have to buy a car that comes with it like a BMW.

But hey, it's just an opinion. I got mine and you got yours. Just that yours is as useful as a $10 glow in the dark Hondah emblem that's eventually gonna get stolen by emblem-fairy. :D

What they hell is that supposed to mean? I don't even really like Honda. I really don't care what you think at this point because through your posts and the fact you left such a childish post at my site, you prove nothing but your own ignorance and stupidity and all of you that cheer him prove nothing but the same. You are such hypocrites, you are so damn quick to defend that you never read the entire post you simple see what you want to see and then get pissed of at people like me for posting my opinion, and then you lash out by saying my car is the ugliest car you have ever laid eyes on, which you and I know is bullshit. You then question the specs of my car when you don't know a damn thing about it. You go ahead and be an ignorant jackass, see if I care, you are just a damn biased Toyota fanboy.

Well I decided I wasn't going to post a reply but good lord this is ridiculous.

Ok, so you hate the looks of a car... that's fine, but when you go off about how a car peforms..... then that's wrong

There seems to be a lot of assumptions and just plain lack of knowledge going on right now.

First of all. Stock, the Celica owns the competition in its class in performance oriented every category (less 2002's straight line performance because of the screwed up rev limiter) and since we are busy listing MAGAZINE times I will follow suit

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/comparison/articles/47901/page007.html

In case you don't want to read it here's a quote from that article.

The "If action is what you want, you needn't look any further than the Celica. In the performance category of this test, the Celica earned an outstanding 95.8 percent score. Even the editors' evaluations of individual performance attributes read like a Hollywood awards show. Best suspension? Toyota Celica. Best Steering? Toyota Celica. Best brakes? (Dramatic pause) Toyota Celica. Would the lead engineer of the Celica's underpinnings please take a bow?

So armed, the Celica feels like the Jackie Chan of the group, going off mad-crazy kung-fu-style on the dim-witted Eclipse and Cougar. On canyon roads, this 2,500-pound welterweight tightly arcs through corners with minimal body roll. The steering is very quick and precise without being twitchy, and the thick three-spoke steering wheel rim fits naturally in your hands. Reducing speed is a simple matter of squeezing the powerful brakes; 60-to-0 stops take a mere 116 feet.

The Celica is at its best when being used (and abused) near its maximum limits. It thrives on being wrung out. This, oh so conveniently, is exactly the type of driving required for a racetrack. Powering out of turns, the Celica's Yokohama 205/50VR16 tires provide excellent grip. Of the six cars, the Celica feels most like a race car, and the lap times prove it. Its fastest lap was a 1:25.2, the only front-drive car to manage a sub-1:26 time. Its average lap time was also the fastest of the group. If this car had a limited-slip front differential (like the old Acura Integra Type R had), it would be nearly unstoppable"

Toyota Celica in 2000/2001 in Sport compact car netted a 14.9 stock in the 1/4 mile. (so those of you quoting 16 secs pull your head out now)

Numerous REAL people have hit 14.9 stock in the Celica. Check www.newcelica.org

Numerous people have hit low and mid 14's with simple bolt ons, yes that means intake and exhaust. We don't have honda's aftermarket. We have yet to get any serious straight line stuff except intake/exhaust/lsd

Now onto the more important stuff and what the Celica is actually made for . Twisties and road courses.

Anyone heard of a company called Hotchkis Tuning?

The Hotchkis Celica recently ripped apart just about every major Sport Compact Car record.

http://www.hotchkistuning.com/frames/toyota_celica/testing_results.htm

Here's the SportCompactCar web article ONLINE... you dont' even have to buy it.
http://www.everythingcelica.com/gal2/view_album.php?set_albumName=media_scc

It ran better times than the the Evo 7 on the same road course. This was with a 2002 Celica with the rev limiter at 7500 and no engine modifications just hotchkis tuning parts for the suspension system.
Pick up the latest issue of SCC and check out the Celica's rippin up the track. Here's a quote from the mag.

"In fact, Hotchkis tells tales of dicing toe-to-toe with a current-model BMW M3 at the same track we performed the test. To verify, we dug up the lap times produced by the Mitsubishi EVO VII we tested last month at the same track. Turns out, Hotchkis' Celica is damned fast, cranking out lap times nearly a second quicker than Mitsubishi's supercar (56.47 sec. vs. 57.44 sec). We're believers."

Here's a nice article. The 2ZZ-GE engine that powers the new celica just won engine of the year for the 1.4-1.8 litre class http://www.ukintpress.com/engineoftheyear/14-18.html

Really guys, this is not a flame, I just want this to be an informative thread. Even if you think the Celica is ugly, I think you can respect the raw numbers.........

Originally posted by gts24
Really guys, this is not a flame, I just want this to be an informative thread. Even if you think the Celica is ugly, I think you can respect the raw numbers.........

THANK YOU! Thanks for not coming across like a jack ass. I looked at all of your links because of that fact, and yes I can respect that. The Celica is a pretty fast four banger, I still would not call it a true sports car, hell I don't consider my car a sports car either. The Celica is a good car, yes it's pretty quick, and it can handle pretty well. I was never disputing those things; I was surprised at those 1/4 mile numbers.

Why didn't I bother looking at anyone else’s links? Because you had to make a post like a jackass, at least this person is trying to be civil.

everyone's intitle'd to their own opinion's is right... so here's mine...

That lebaron is one of the most disgusting, hideous ass, piece of sh!t goat haulers i've ever seen... yea, you could get compliments on it, but remember that the people with seeing eye dogs don't count... just my opinion...

and to whoever said something like who cares and wants to talk about a Celica... who the F*CK wants to talk about your lowly 98 Civic Ex and it's 106whp stampedding ponies?

here's the deal... it's been proven numerous times... and there was a video at newcelica.org with a celica GT-S with an intake and unbolted muffler (not exhaust, if you knew what the GT-S exhaust looks like you know what i mean) running 14.5 in the quarter... and numerous people are running 14's with mild bolt-ons, let alone with N2O... If you have knowledge then you could talk...but, most of you do not... Yes, Honda's VTEC and VTEC-i are great systems...just like toyota's VVTL-i... and just as easy as Honda's and Acura's could surprise you, so could toyota's 2ZZ-GE... there's more technology to this engine then you would think... oh yea... I own a 00 GT-S and it's fuel cut is a lil' above 8300... did the lowered limiter hurt the new GT-S...absolutely... but i could tell you i've won and lost my fair share of races with ITR's, GSR's, and H22 Preludes...hell i beat a S2K before, twice, but it was purely the driver's fault...so, just cause you take a car, doesn't mean that they're all slow or what not, could just be driver's error as a car could only do what he or she driving it could do...

and then someone made a comment on handling... well... not tuned to the likes of a ITR...the GT-S is still very formidable with moderate to mild understeer...not tons of it... now... tuned to something along the same level of the ITR's suspension and LSD, the GT-S went through the cones of a 700FT slalom at 76.9mph(and the car only had an exhaust and K&N filter performance wise), pulled 1.03 on a 200FT skidpad...and stopped from 60mph in 96feet with just stoptec calipers in the front and decent pads...don't believe me? go get the new issue of Sport Compact Car and check out the Celica shoot out and read what they said about it and the Celica overall... and the other 2 mildly tuned celica's put up damn good numbers as well...

does Honda build great cars, yes... does Toyota... yes... does other companies... yes, a couple...

Hell, like I thought, 98% of you Toyota boys are all the same.

Originally posted by 2ZZ-GE
and to whoever said something like who cares and wants to talk about a Celica... who the F*CK wants to talk about your lowly 98 Civic Ex and it's 106whp stampedding ponies?

If you don't want to talk about Hondas then what the hell are you doing here? Go back to the Toyota forums then.

The Lebaron Polyester...err Polygon wrote:

I'm sorry if I came off a little brash, it is just that you are the fourth person in this thread getting on my case about my opinion.

:monkeypis Wah, wah, wah, wah!!!

Don't even apologize for being brash. I sure as hell ain't. You state your shit and get it over with. You wanna apologize, then STFU.

You are simply coming after me because I stated my opinion and I drive a LeBaron.
So? You state your opinion and I'm gonna fuck it over like a 2 cent whore. Welcome to the real world. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. :rolleyes:

I will give you that, I don't care much for the boxy dash panel, but my seats are leather not vinyl, and there aren't any pictures of the seats so how would you know?
I'm talking about your dash. I thought the boxy comment would've made it obvious. :D

You would have to buy the ENTIRE system which nobody sells.
Look around PAL. They are out there. Mostly for offroad use only, but in good ol Utah that shouldn't be too much of a problem, huh? Oh yeah, there are also seperate HID systems in their own external casing that *are* legal for the road.

People have said worse about Toyota in this thread than I have, why come after me? Because of the car I drive? Grow up.
No, cause I think you suck and there are too many Hondas on this board. But if I had the time, I'd equally roll you all over and smoke yer asses one by one. :bandit:

No that car is completely stock. You know nothing about the LeBaron. You know nothing about the engine, the turbo, or the drivetrain. And yes, I have had my car weighed and it weighs 2800 pounds.

1989 Chrysler LeBaron
I'm guessing Sport GTS.
174HP, 200lbs/torque, turbocharged.
5-speed manual.
2926lbs.
Rear suspension, live axle.

You call 205HP stock? Bullshit. Pulling 31HP outta thin air doesn't do shit for me. Though in this case, its outta yer ass.

You go ahead and be an ignorant jackass, see if I care, you are just a damn biased Toyota fanboy.
Wrong. I'm also a DSM bad ass sonnovabitch that'll rip your precious Lebaron on the straights and on the turns. :devil:

-Rich

Originally posted by Polygon


THANK YOU! Thanks for not coming across like a jack ass. I looked at all of your links because of that fact, and yes I can respect that. The Celica is a pretty fast four banger, I still would not call it a true sports car, hell I don't consider my car a sports car either. The Celica is a good car, yes it's pretty quick, and it can handle pretty well. I was never disputing those things; I was surprised at those 1/4 mile numbers.

Why didn't I bother looking at anyone else’s links? Because you had to make a post like a jackass, at least this person is trying to be civil.

That is my point. Information is out there.

I think you have a pretty nice car. The fact that you take care of your car and keep it presentable is the best quality of the car.


Alot of what a car is is what it's owner is about.......

Lets see. Ive seeen plenty of stock GTS Celicas running high 14s. Magazine numbers dont mean shit. Take a look over at

http://www.newcelica.org and http://www.celica.net and ask around for some timeslips. You will see. Also MR Lebaron I live in Utah too. And as soon as I get my turbo fixed on my MR2, I will show you what a "true toyota sports car" can do because youre always so damn quick to bash on a toyota but you never even mention the MR2 which in my opinon was the best damn and only TRUE SPORTS CAR that toyota ever made. In my opinion the Supra is like a Japanese muscle car, but hey even in its current state lets go ahead and race turns. Even at low boost levels my MR2 will rip most anything on the street in handling but thats ok you can continue to bash with your Lebaron that is just so bad. Oh and another thing, that really got me. You show me a Lebaron that can run 9s with LITTLE modification and I will give you a medal because that engine just isnt strong enough without a lot of modification to it, and the turbo, and the intercooler, and the fuel system, and the engine management system, and a bunch of other stuff too. So blah to you I say. Oh and I say a good driver in a Celica GTS 6 spd will take you out. Do the math for power to weight ratio and I bet the celica gts has a better power to weight ratio than you do.

Wah, wah, wah, wah!!!

Don't even apologize for being brash. I sure as hell ain't. You state your shit and get it over with. You wanna apologize, then STFU.

Was I apologizing to you? No, so maybe you need to shut up.

You state your opinion and I'm gonna fuck it over like a 2 cent whore. Welcome to the real world. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.

That's nice. Welcome to the real world huh? I know everyone has an opinion, but you don't have to be an asshole about it. Once again, grow up.

Look around PAL. They are out there. Mostly for offroad use only, but in good ol Utah that shouldn't be too much of a problem, huh? Oh yeah, there are also seperate HID systems in their own external casing that *are* legal for the road.

I am talking for a passenger car; I don't want some hillbilly halogen lights on the front of my car.

No, cause I think you suck and there are too many Hondas on this board. But if I had the time, I'd equally roll you all over and smoke yer asses one by one.

And why is that, because I drive a LeBaron. Get a life, there are people on here that will hand you your ass all day long on the track, and if you are stock, I'm one of them. Once again, grow up.

1989 Chrysler LeBaron
I'm guessing Sport GTS.
174HP, 200lbs/torque, turbocharged.
5-speed manual.
2926lbs.
Rear suspension, live axle.

Once again moron, that is a LeBaron GTS, that is the sedan. How many times to I have to tell you?

I am also a DSM bad ass sonnovabitch that'll rip your precious Lebaron on the straights and on the turns.

How would you know? For the last time get a life and grow up. From the looks of your attitude you won't be here long. I wish a mod would close this thread it has turned into nothing more than this fellows excuse to flame people and has no use anymore.

That is my point. Information is out there.

I think you have a pretty nice car. The fact that you take care of your car and keep it presentable is the best quality of the car.


Alot of what a car is is what it's owner is about.......

Thank you.

Originally posted by Luni420
Lets see. Ive seeen plenty of stock GTS Celicas running high 14s. Magazine numbers dont mean shit. Take a look over at

http://www.newcelica.org and http://www.celica.net and ask around for some timeslips. You will see. Also MR Lebaron I live in Utah too. And as soon as I get my turbo fixed on my MR2, I will show you what a "true toyota sports car" can do because youre always so damn quick to bash on a toyota but you never even mention the MR2 which in my opinon was the best damn and only TRUE SPORTS CAR that toyota ever made. In my opinion the Supra is like a Japanese muscle car, but hey even in its current state lets go ahead and race turns. Even at low boost levels my MR2 will rip most anything on the street in handling but thats ok you can continue to bash with your Lebaron that is just so bad. Oh and another thing, that really got me. You show me a Lebaron that can run 9s with LITTLE modification and I will give you a medal because that engine just isnt strong enough without a lot of modification to it, and the turbo, and the intercooler, and the fuel system, and the engine management system, and a bunch of other stuff too. So blah to you I say. Oh and I say a good driver in a Celica GTS 6 spd will take you out. Do the math for power to weight ratio and I bet the celica gts has a better power to weight ratio than you do.

1. I NEVER ripped on the MR2; it is a car that I happen to like! Where the hell is all this coming from? I only stated that I think that they CURRENT line of Toyotas don't look that great. I never bashed on Toyota as a car company and would own a few different ones if I had the money. Shit read peoples posts before you trying to shred them a new asshole, good lord!

2. I never said that a LeBaron will run 9s with little mods. I said you can get 1989 or 1990 GTC running low 12' with little mods. Once again read my damn post. Yes you would have to do a good amount of mods to run 9s. I never said you wouldn't. And you don't know anything about the engine so don't talk like you do.

3. You are doing the exact same thing as all these other Toyota boys are doing. You just see that I don't like the new Celica's looks and suddenly I have said disgraceful things about the entire company and all of their cars. You people need to grow up and learn to be a little civilized. I honestly don't know what else I can say to get through to you people because you aren't listening to a damn word I say. I give up; I can combat with three ignorant people at a time. I guess I shouldn't ague with fools because they will only take you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

Originally posted by Polygon

I don't even really like Honda.

then why are you on a honda forum?

Originally posted by Celica Alltrac


then why are you on a honda forum?

Because I post kills in here, I do like some Hondas though. I guess the same could be asked of at least half the Toyota people in here.

um.....b/c we are representing the cars you are bashing. oh i'm sorry did we make it hard for you to make fun of another car? well maybe we all should leave you alone so you can bash without having to face the facts.

Originally posted by Polygon


Because I post kills in here, I do like some Hondas though. I guess the same could be asked of at least half the Toyota people in here.
My dad owns a Honda Civic (with a Toyota 4x4). My mom owns a Honda Accord. My sister owns another Honda Civic. My baby sister now drives my Acura Integra. My cousin drives a modded Honda Civic. My cousin has a modded V6 Accord.

But being the equal opportunity ass kicker that I am, I'll fuck up any and every Honda on road that wants to fuck with me in my DSM or Celica. Of course, that goes for any Celicas that wishes to challenge me in my DSM. I've had more than my share of wins and losses against the 7th gens (more wins of course).

Bottom line is this, when a couple of Hondas and some Lebaron wanna start ragging on Celicas and Toyotas, I'll bring the heat. :flamer:

-Rich

Originally posted by Celica Alltrac
um.....b/c we are representing the cars you are bashing. oh i'm sorry did we make it hard for you to make fun of another car? well maybe we all should leave you alone so you can bash without having to face the facts.

Look, I wasn't the only one, and I only said that I didn't like the looks. You people are going off on me making claims that I have bashed on the power, handling, reliability, and have totally bashed Toyota as a company. That is what I can't handle, I have damn well said that the Celica is a well performing car; I just don't like how it looks. The front and the rear look great but I don't like how it looks from the side. People have said much worse than I have about Toyota. I have accepted the facts, I never disputed them. If you people just find to damn hard to ACTUALLY read my entire post that’s fine.

I am done with this thread, like I said you people aren't listening to me and you are just pissed off because I don't like the way your damn car looks so you freaking get after me about things I never said. I hope they close this piece of trash thread that has turned into you peoples damn flame war.

Oh, and props to DragonKnight, you actually made a somewhat civil post.

U can get the action package in gt or gts form.Yes the 2002 has a 7800 rpm rev limiter.No they r not slow!My gts runs side by side with my friends civic with a gsr engine(before he threw on the bottle).We dont have a quarter mile in my city but i run a 9 7 n the 8th.My g-tech says im runnon low to mid 14s in the quarter.As for looks i beleive the celica is one of the most beautifuly skulpted cars from the factory!This comes with a price though as for most body kits look like crap on the car.The only ones i like are the veilside,trd,and trial.IMO!Im not about to flame n e body!The straight fact is ive beaten all hondas including the rsx(exept the nsx)!ive beaten other toyotas(including the twin turbo supra)Its was one of those fast and furious boys that got daddy to buy him a car that he couldnt drive.Beaton some v8s..got my ass stomped by a 96 cobra svt.Been there done that.:smoker2:

Hmmm...

Well, honestly, I liked the looks of the last gen Celica over the newest design. The Celica is a decent little car, and I'd certainly take a chance to atleast test drive one. But let's be reasonable, here.

Sure, some guy comes storming in saying that he doesn't like the looks of the Celica... It's an opinion, and one I happen to share in this case. Do we all have to run straight to insults just because he doesn't drive a "Toy" or "Honduh"??? Some cars are faster than others. I think that's a given. Can't we all just play nice? Or am I going to get yelled at b/c I've cruised everything from an Oldsmobile Silhouette (complete with factory chrome wheels) to my *mostly* stock Suzuki GS500???

Please, aren't we all here to just enjoy talking about something we have a passion for?

Okies, here are the facts and precedents:

7th gen Celicas

Drag racing on the 1/4 mile
-Stock GT-S is capable of high 14s.
-GT-S is capable of mid to low 14s with *just* bolt on's.
-GT-S is capable of high 13s with max mods short of NOS and turbo. This is with unbolted exhaust and no rear seat.
-Fastest I've seen a GT with time slips was 14s with stripped interior and heavy mods.


Street racing
-GT-S is capable of taking on and *beating* Type-R's short of turbo.
-GT is capable of taking on and *beating* Civic Si's.
-(Of course, the same goes around against them).
-I've had my ass handed to me by the fastest 2000 Celica GT-S in the SF Bay Area against my Laser with mild mods. Though these days I'm running high 13s with a wee bit more than modded BCS and K&N drop in. Need to take a trip to Sac to produce a real time slip though. ;)

Autocross
-GT-S can take on STS and make it its playground. Right now they are holding over a huge chunk of STS in SFR.
-The white GT here in SFR has won the ES championship last year and is currently dominating GS now.
-Handling of both cars are close on par to the Integra Type-R.
-But where the GT loses ground in drag racing, it makes up in autocross with power at the right place combined with awesome handling and nominal brakes.

Granted that the 7th gen isn't gonna totally dominate in these 3 traits. But it sure isn't some pushover some here are portraying it to be. Far from it, with a good driver the car in either GT or GT-S is a considerable threat. With the proper tuning, it can be the dominant force on the track and on the streets.

-Rich

GT capable of beating Si's? Is this with god behind the wheel? If the Si has a decent driver, a celica GT should be small potatoes
Ive never lost to a GT and ive walked on a few GTS's and my car is damn close to stock.

intake, exhaust and a shortshifter and some chrome 16s lol

personally i love the styling of the new gen celica, i would drive it. they are:cool: it would definitely have to be a GTS though

Well see Polygon I assumed that you were uneducated and full of shit because in a previous post, you stated the Supra as the only true sports car that Toyota made but the drivetrain layout of the MR2 technically gives it an advantage in that department, as the supra just weighs more and has more horsepower and a bigger engine. Sorry man I guess I just didnt like you rippin on a 7th gen celica, as I used to own one and Ive driven a stock Legaron GTC as it wasnt that quick at all, my MR2 would rape one, maybe not yours as you have mods but again it just seemed like you were ripping on a toyota and Im like, ok what do you drive. I apologize if my manner was rude, I guess Im just very blunt. Sorry. No offense. Really I didnt come here to start shit, I guess I was just defending toyotas. Sorry again.

Oh and Polygon you did say 9s. I can dig up the quote. I read this entire thread before I made my reply. My reply was "educated" as far as the content of this thread was concerned. Again I was misguided with my post. I really do apologize. I have this problem. I get on, I rip, then I read it later, without initial reguard to people in the thread. I really am sorry.

And not to be a dick or an I told you so but here is the quote and this is where I get my 9s from. And you wrote it yourself so here it is

Polygon wrote and I quote: (i cut and copied the entire thing lol)


Well I have to address a few things here.

1. I am allowed to have my own opinion, and I don't think I have my head up my ass. I think the new line if Toyota cars, trucks, and SUVs are ugly. That is my opinion and damnit I am entitled to it. Go ahead and say my car is ugly; I don't really care, because I think it looks a lot better than a Toyota Celica.

2. When I said that there is no way a Celica GTS could run 14s in the 1/4 mile I was talking about a STOCK Celica. Shit S2 and liquid, you guys take to defense too quickly. You call me biased but it is alright for you trash on anyone else who doesn't share your opinion, that my friends is bullshit. I am not that biased but I can't like every car out there, sorry.

3. I doubt very highly that you have seen a GTC Turbo 2 loose to a bone stock Civic, there is no way, unless the driver is dumber than a rock or there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with the car. I KILL, and when I say that I mean litterally KILL Celica GT and GTSs all the time. I don't even waste my time with stock Civics. There were only about 200 of my car made in 89 and I have yet to see one in the condition mine is in. I have only seen three other GTCs. One that was completely junked out, one that was a 90, and one that was the automatic. You bring any stock Civic, Celica, Corolla, or Prelude out here and I will hand your ass to you. And I have never posted a race of me killing Mustang 5.0s. And for you information, there are people that run low 9s in the 1/4 mile with LeBaron GTCs with little modification.

Don't call me ignorant, because I do know my shit about cars. You know NOTHING about mine, so that makes you the ignorant ones.

Oh and Another thing Polygon, again not to sound like a dick, but I do know alot about your engine. I have worked on it plenty of times. Its the same 2.2 liter turbo that goes in the Daytona, the Laser, and several other dodge/chrysler cars. I had a buddy that had a 86 Laser. I did alot of work on that car. I know how its setup. I have changed a timing belt, an oxygen sensor, motor mounts, a clutch, a starter, even dropped a transmission. I had to do the same damn shit on my 1993 Dodge Shadow ES which had the 2.5 liter NA but the engine setup was almost IDENTICAL and the same to work on. So dont judge me and what I know, You have no idea how much I know about cars and your engine and car in particular. Ive seen your valves, Ive seen your timing assembly, Ive wrenched on that damn motor too many times not to. Ive put up with too much crap from that engine lol oh believe me I know. And I know what it can do. Dont get me wrong. Its a great engine but it has to be fixed to be one. I mean stock, it has cooling issues. It has oil delivery issues, and some other issues as well. Unless they fixed those in the 89 or whatever year yours is, in 86 they were pretty prominent problems. It also had electrical problems.

Originally posted by kidrocket
GT capable of beating Si's? Is this with god behind the wheel? If the Si has a decent driver, a celica GT should be small potatoes
Ive never lost to a GT and ive walked on a few GTS's and my car is damn close to stock.

intake, exhaust and a shortshifter and some chrome 16s lol

personally i love the styling of the new gen celica, i would drive it. they are:cool: it would definitely have to be a GTS though
God has nothing to do with it. It's called power/weight ratio. Si coupe at 2600 lbs w/o any other option saved standard with 160HP. 7th gen GT with 140HP at 2300lbs with no options like sunroof, power locks windows, and spoiler. Do the math. That makes it pretty even in that situation. Plus, it has happened on several occasions. It isn't always horsepower cause I've learned that lesson the hard way against the GT-S (180HP @ 2480lbs w/o sunroof and other options). Plus, you think that's bad theres the MR2 Spyder (138HP @ 2195lbs). It'll outhandle any of these cars like nobody's business and still have that monster launch that only an AWD can match.

These cars demand more out of their owners. But once they learned how their car works, that's when the true monster is unleashed. Stop picking on rice boy pansies and idiots who don't have the faintest idea what Lift and gear ratio means in a race. Start working up against the real mofos who know their cars inside and out. I'm talking about those who have a rep for taking out WRX's and Mustang GT's. Like I said, it's more than horsepower numbers. Weight, gear ratio, the velocity of the car during Lift (VVTL-i hits a *lot* harder than VTEC and i-VTEC, I should know cause I've compared them all personally), and power band. These all play a factor on what a real race is all about.

Oh yeah, think that's crazy, wait until you get into autocross, road racing, and my favorite, rallycross. Turns combine all those acceleration factor with handling. That's when things get interesting when you figure out "lines". ;)

-Rich

trust me ive raced enough of them. statistically i should have come up against a great driver out of all of them. My friends teg LS walks on GTs and its stock with 145 thousand on the odometer. Theyre great little cars but theyre not that quick. and im not saying my car is that quick either but i work with what i got.

Dude I only lost to 1 Integra when I had my Celica GT 5spd. And it was a Type R. I beat a GSR off the line till about 60, I walked RS, LS, and GS integras. I never lost to a car in my class. I never unfortunately got a chance to race a civic SI in the Celica though. Dammit.

This is for the Polygon guy:
So how is the Celica NOT a sports car? The last time I checked, sports cars were coupes, were quick, and handled well. And lets see, the Celica GT-S is Sport Compact Cars, Road and Track, Car and Driver, and Edmunds.com (to name a few) favorite 'sports compact' in its respective category. And for the Supra thing, the Supra is a Celica, when it comes down to it. If there was no Celica, there would be no Supra. Thats what the first two generations of the Supra were named the Celica-Supra.

So let me ask again, how is the Celica NOT a sports car?

Yes, I am part of the 'Toyota Brigade' as you have named us. Come over to my home http://www.celica.net/ and post your opinion, I'm sure you'll get more than enough responses. And I promise not to lock your thread. :D

-Will "Talking Like Rich and Defending the Celica"

Careful mang, u might get banned. LOLZ!

Gotta admit, cars like the Lebaron, DSMs, Civics, Integras (including the Type-R), Celicas, Corollas, Neons, WRXs, LanEVO, Preludes, and most FWD's are not considered to be sports cars by Motortrend or most of the major automotive magazines. A better term for our FWD performance cars would be "sports compacts" by those who say that sports cars are cars like the 300ZX/350Z, Supra, Corvette, Porche, and other cars that are high horsepower and RWD by design. This is grassroots where cars like the Miata and MR2 are considered sports cars class, but not a FWD like the Integra. This is an old school concept and pretty dated.

With that in mind, it doesn't take away from the fact that cars such as our Celicas, my own DSM, and Integra Type-R's are cars that'll be a good match on the straights and on the turns with those cars that are considered "true sports cars." But there are still those who believe in that outdated concept. One that I could care less about since I'll rip them all apart in the dirt. :D

-Rich

dang.. i jus typed a whole 2 paragraphs and i lost it.

it went something like this... and was aimed towards the guy that cannt believe a Celica GT can beat the almighty VTEC powered Ess Eye

real life track times... mind you this is at close to 3000 ft elevation...
Civic Si w/ Nitrous 15.7 average
Many Civic Si bolt on 16.2-16.7 average
Integra LS 16.7-17.5 average
Integra GSR 16.1-16.4 average
My car(Celica GT) 16.1-16.3 average

I have never lost .. repeat NEVER lost to any kind of "bolt-on" teg LS.. have lost to a nitrous'd one though.

I have lost once to an Si... that was the nitrous'd one....
Even raced an Si from 80mph to 115mph and won by a little more than half a car length...

I have lost about 2 times to GSR's and also won 2 times

Now lets look at some stats..
00-02 Celica GT approx. 2400 lbs 140hp 125tq
99-00 Civic Si approx. 2600 lbs 160hp 111tq
96+ Teg LS approx. 2700 lbs 140hp 125tq?
96+ Teg GSR approx. 2700 lbs 170hp 130tq

Hmmmm... very similar power to weight ratios... with the LS having the worst..

I know one thing though... I think my car rocks! End of story.

Hondas are like tampons..every pussy needs one!!

:flipa: :devil: :flipa: :devil:

Numbers, numbers, numbers...

HP, Torque, Weight and everything else don't mean shit if the driver can't back it up. ;)

Y is this Forum still going? damn.. enuff. every1 is entitled to ther're own opinons......:bandit:

real life times? you have to be joking

did you not read my post about my friends Si running 14.9 with a few boltons?
sounds unbelievable but i watched it happen. that car went full circle to running 11s and now it doesnt run but thats another story

also, i walked on a newest gen lude and afterwards the dude told me he ran 15.3.

ive only done 3 "performance mods" (im excluding the pirellis)

well my friends GSR hits 16.4 at my track and he walks all over me on the street...
my friends z24 hits 15.7 at the track and I walk all over him on the streets, "that must mean I run better than 15.7"... NOPE!
I beat a 14 second car before... does that make my car a 14 second car? NO.

So basically, Your point iss??
I was just stating that it's not impossible for a 140hp car to beat the almighty DOK VTEK POWAH... know what I mean?

Ohhh. your friend hit 14.9 in an Si with a few bolt-ons? Well, dude on Celica board hit 14.7 with a few bolt-ons as well. Where's the almighty unbeatable VTEK poWaHz?

Look dude, just because you've never been beaten by another car doesnt mean you can cal yours quick and the other not when they are vrey similar in performance. Thats just ignant.

seems to me like you need to explore the automotive world more.

ok man i totally know what your saying.

i dont even consider my car that quick
Im just stating my personal experience with the GT celica.
I like the celica. i think the styling is one of its strong points, as well as a very strong and durable motor
I really dont hate on any car company, domestics included. I just hate the people that come in bashing Hondas with no particular reason or info to back it up. I.E. "hondas are like tampons every pussy needs one." i hope that trash gets banned. we dont need that. This was a healthy discussion until that shit was added. I hate when these threads turn into shit throwing festivals.
i really like the new celicas, in fact i was considering those, and GSRs when buying my car.

And about thinking my car is quick...
lol ive had my ass handed to me way too many times to think that.
i think my car is strictly middle of the road when it comes to performance, which is why it is a good starting point. I concede points when i know they must be given, such as, I know VVT-i (i think thats it) is a lot more advanced, and hits a lot harder than my VTEC. Perhaps the reason is because VTEC was conceived in the mid to late 80s, but nevertheless, toyota makes a very strong motor.

I see many of you have very low post counts. Instead of calling you newbs like a lot of cats, i say welcome to the board and i hope your AF careers are less confrontational.

Travis

also, i think i came on a bit strong with the god comment, and i apologize.