okay heres the story. i was driving home last night at about 2:00am, there was nobody else on the road. i come up behind a newer z28 doing about 55-60mph, so of course i pass him to keep my speed of 75-80mph. well no problem there, the guy just kept driving 60 the whole time i passed him, then suddenly he decides that he didnt like me passing him so here he comes. ive dropped to about 70mph just cruising cuz we were watching a movie, all of a sudden i notice him right behind me and passing me. i let him get beside me, then drop to 4th when he is right next to me and floor it. well of course hes already got a 10-15mph advantage on me so theres no way in hell im gonna keep him from getting around me. but im behind him, trying my best to keep up. at the end of this straight stretch there are 2 long sweeping corners, 1st to the right then to the left. when he gets to the 1st corner he is about 5-6 lengths ahead of me, i see him tap his brakes to slow down enough to enter, when i get there i just keep my foot on the floor. by the middle of the 1st corner i have made up all 6 lengths and am right on his bumper. u can tell hes having problems, his car look really unstable and jerky, hes going about 95mph and im just sticking to his bumper. when we get out of the corner theres a short straight before the next one, he pulls maybe 2 lengths in front of me there, but i easily made it up when we entered the corner. im still just trying to stick to his bumper, hes really having problems there are little pieces of dirt and gravel shooting out from under his tires and i swear i saw his back end break loose for a split second. he moves over into the left lane (inside) to try and lessen the corner, so i see this as my chance to take him, i put my foot down and begin to pass him on the outside. when we get to the end of the corner his front end was about 3 feet behind my front end, i was doing approximately 110mph and hes about 100-105mph. now were on a long straightaway, it takes him a moment to make up the 10 or so mph i have on him, but then he begins to pull again and gets back in front of me. he pulls a few lengths ahead, then hits his brakes and quits, i get up behind him then i quit too. before the end of the straight stretch he turns off into a driveway, which sucks for me cuz there was a killer set of corners coming up and he was going down. :devil:

wait till i get some real hp so he cant leave me on the straights cuz i was smoking his ass in the corners.

way to go, at a distance of 3 feet that stupid slowmaro owner could have hit one patch of gravel and finished you both off as well as any passenger inside either car.
than would it really have been worth it to see who is the better driver?

Not a bad run. The z28s are pretty fast in a straight line, but get them into a curve and they handle like a barge. Now if it was me in my Cobra then it would have been a different story. The mustang cobras are not only fast in a straight line, but have special suspension and are very capable curve carvers. You never would have gotten with in ten car lenghts of me. You better slap on some hp, to play with the sports cars.

Actually a camaro has better grip than your year mustang does stock, so learn what your talking about. The 99+ cobra's have the IRS or independent rear suspension, and they are the only car in that class that has that.

professor, you are the kinda guy that buys every motortrend magazine and than thinks he knows how all those cars drive because that's what those guys say, right?
i have two friends with identical 94 pontiac trans am's, one is a formula the other is a t/a. both are 6 speed, both ride on a 245 width tires and neither one can handle worth it's weight pennies. they are big, heavy boats with nothing but straightline speed as the primary goal.
i have owned myself a 90 Gt mustang, and it was very, very nimble and quick when driven under the right circumstances.
his mustang is not only 4 years newer, but i know they outhandle the f-body chebbies because i have driven both and bagged on both thoroughly.
on top of that, he doesn't just have a regular mustang. it's a cobra, ford's way of saying WS6.
so maybe quit reading books and get into the driver's seat of some real automobiles. see for yourself which suck and which don't and than base your statements on personal experience rather than someone elses.

Trust me i know mustangs, this is my fourth. Where do you get your info about better grip? The camaro sucks on the skid pad. Besides, the the IRS on the 99 and newer cobra is plauged with wheel hop problems. So, with a decent suspension a live axle is the best. So, before you make stupid comments, do some research.

Originally posted by 94svt5.0
Trust me i know mustangs, this is my fourth. Where do you get your info about better grip? The camaro sucks on the skid pad. Besides, the the IRS on the 99 and newer cobra is plauged with wheel hop problems. So, with a decent suspension a live axle is the best. So, before you make stupid comments, do some research.

u should also do some research if u think youre gonna outcorner my car unless u got heavily modified suspension.

I'm sorry, but the only mustang related vehicle that could ever out handle an impreza is an S7, and that thing ain't no mustang, it's got a mustang block, and thats it.

nah the SVT cobra R can out handle the stock impreza. but then agian. only 500 was made. and nice race delaysion. can always count on you for nice detailed races.

I donno about Mustang Vs. 'Maro handeling, but I'm afraid that unless your in an SVT the subbie has um in the corners. Now straight line there may be trouble :D That all goes by the wayside if you have done suspension work and have put new rubber on it:rolleyes:

Originally posted by TatII
SVT cobra R

man i was cruising friday night and i saw this mustang coming down the road with a bunch of stickers and a butt ugly spoiler and i laughed and said "look at the ricey mustang" but when it got closer i realized it was a cobra r and the stickers were nitrous express... glad i didnt try to pull out with him and play with him when i thought it was a riced out one!

Originally posted by ldelaysionl


man i was cruising friday night and i saw this mustang coming down the road with a bunch of stickers and a butt ugly spoiler and i laughed and said "look at the ricey mustang" but when it got closer i realized it was a cobra r and the stickers were nitrous express... glad i didnt try to pull out with him and play with him when i thought it was a riced out one!

Lol, kinda what happened to a friend of mine in his WRX. We saw a riced out Supra and went up to play with him. To bad for my friend the TT badge wasn't rice :D

trust me my 94 svt cobra could out run the subaru. No need to state that i would easily smoke it on the straights, and the svt supension would stay with it in the curves, keeping the subaru in the rearview. The nitto 555 zr stick like glue, got 265/35/18 in the back and 245/40/18 in the front. Now the WRX would be a bit more of a challange, but the straight aways would still make the difference.

i have no doubt that if it was curvy enough u wouldnt keep up with me. i have asked several people since yesterday and even a fellow mustang owner and even he admits that his mustang wouldnt keep up with me through corners even if he had good lowering springs and shocks and badass tires.

ldelaysionl: what mods have you done to your car now? oh yea, nice race.

94svt5.0: if you guys raced in the same place ldelaysiol did with the camaro, i do not think you would have won. According to www.edmunds.com, your car has 240 hp and 285 lb/ft stock. With your mods, you probaly have another 15-20hp? A stock LS1 z28 has over 300 hp and runs low 13's stock(with a good driver). So I'm pretty sure the LS1 z28 is faster than your corbra in a straightline. Therefore, the WRX would close in on you much quicker and would have an easier time passing you. The WRX also would have an advantage over you because of his AWD in the loose conditions.


my 2 cents.

Originally posted by fatninja19
ldelaysionl: what mods have you done to your car now? oh yea, nice race.

94svt5.0: if you guys raced in the same place ldelaysiol did with the camaro, i do not think you would have won. According to www.edmunds.com, your car has 240 hp and 285 lb/ft stock. With your mods, you probaly have another 15-20hp? A stock LS1 z28 has over 300 hp and runs low 13's stock(with a good driver). So I'm pretty sure the LS1 z28 is faster than your corbra in a straightline. Therefore, the WRX would close in on you much quicker and would have an easier time passing you. The WRX also would have an advantage over you because of his AWD in the loose conditions.


my 2 cents.

ey ? didn;t understand any of that

o by the way idelyson's car is a 2.5 RS

my car is the 2.5 non-turbo, my only mods performance wise are intake and exhaust.

i have no doubt at all that on a straight enough road this guys cobra would kick my ass, but i also have no doubtr that on a twisty enough road it would be the other way around, even with his "special cobra suspension"

Originally posted by ldelaysionl
my car is the 2.5 non-turbo, my only mods performance wise are intake and exhaust.

i have no doubt at all that on a straight enough road this guys cobra would kick my ass, but i also have no doubtr that on a twisty enough road it would be the other way around, even with his "special cobra suspension"

damn straight

all mustangs all heavy and if a 22B can easily out do a porsche 911 in a bunch of corners on a country without even trying then so could a 2.5RS .....do you have a LSD idelaysionl?

Originally posted by NSX-R-SSJ20K
do you have a LSD idelaysionl?

center viscous coupling lsd.

ummm, maybe i missed something, but since when could subaru wagons out handle anything?
like, is there any websites i can look up that would help me find the difference between a subaru wagon with awd and a toyota corolla wagon with awd?
it just must be because i have never, ever heard or seen anything like that happen in my entire life that i ask this...i know those cars are race-bred for rallying and stuff but pavement is alot different from snow and gravel.

what car(s) do you own chebbie?

Originally posted by chebbiesux
ummm, maybe i missed something, but since when could subaru wagons out handle anything?
like, is there any websites i can look up that would help me find the difference between a subaru wagon with awd and a toyota corolla wagon with awd?
it just must be because i have never, ever heard or seen anything like that happen in my entire life that i ask this...i know those cars are race-bred for rallying and stuff but pavement is alot different from snow and gravel.

perhaps u should attend an autocross, where some people refer to the "stock" class as the "subaru" class. ;) or just drive one for yourself.

With my mods the car is making about 300 hp @ flywheel, i have out dragged camaros plenty of time. I also no a guy with around the same mods on his 94 cobra and it runs 12.8 in the 1/4. Do your reading guys, the cobra suspension is much better then some lowering springs on a GT mustang, and the brake system is the very same one used on the cobra R. The subaru would probably hang in the turns, but the power difference, would make the difference.

Originally posted by chebbiesux
ummm, maybe i missed something, but since when could subaru wagons out handle anything?
like, is there any websites i can look up that would help me find the difference between a subaru wagon with awd and a toyota corolla wagon with awd?
it just must be because i have never, ever heard or seen anything like that happen in my entire life that i ask this...i know those cars are race-bred for rallying and stuff but pavement is alot different from snow and gravel. i don't want to give you a heart attack or anything but rally's are run on pavement, oh yes its possible. check it our for yourself, http://www.rallyzone.com/ the Catalunya Rally was held just last weekend and its on pavement. from my experience with 4WD and AWD they handle like a dream especially when the elements are nasty.

Originally posted by chebbiesux
ummm, maybe i missed something, but since when could subaru wagons out handle anything?
like, is there any websites i can look up that would help me find the difference between a subaru wagon with awd and a toyota corolla wagon with awd?
it just must be because i have never, ever heard or seen anything like that happen in my entire life that i ask this...i know those cars are race-bred for rallying and stuff but pavement is alot different from snow and gravel.

Lol, I understand chebbie:p It is supprising but the little buggers can handle like a champ. The WRXs aswell. They have been put through a hard youth in rally compatition and have grown up to be quite the car. Oh, and there are alot of rally races that are all asphalt too.

Originally posted by 94svt5.0
With my mods the car is making about 300 hp @ flywheel, i have out dragged camaros plenty of time. I also no a guy with around the same mods on his 94 cobra and it runs 12.8 in the 1/4. Do your reading guys, the cobra suspension is much better then some lowering springs on a GT mustang, and the brake system is the very same one used on the cobra R. The subaru would probably hang in the turns, but the power difference, would make the difference.

Look out! 300HP!

And only 265 of rubber on rears? Is that supposed to be a lot?

Originally posted by Gtr2.7L


Look out! 300HP!

And only 265 of rubber on rears? Is that supposed to be a lot?

Rofl :hehehe: Its ok, he's handicaped... He doesn't have a GTR :D :D

nah j/k You just spoiled 'cause you have one:rolleyes: You have to remember, not every one else packs heat and puts it to the ground with devastating quickness;)

Hmmm, I dont remeber saying i made more hp then everybody else, but o well. So how much hp is the Gtr putting to the road?

280 :devil: www.exvitermini.com

for a stock one.....haven't seen many of those though:) Most of my friends have the intake, exhaust, boost controller mods (about 800 USD) and are putting down about 350 to the road (397-402 at the crank)....

didn't mean to bust your chops 5.0....I was just shocked to learn a '94 stock Cobra only put down some 240HP!

Hey, uhhh, GTR2.7L... your from Japan... do you think you can send me a R34... any model would be fine... always wanted to try one out. I'll send you money!:D

I can pick you up a used R34 for about 30,000....less than 25k miles. But you'll have to pay
Motorex the 25k for U.S. conversion and shipping. Let me know....

ya, stock 94-95 cobras only make 240 hp, but that was decent for 1994. The 96-98 cobras make 305hp and the 99-2002 make 320 hp. But, for 2003 the cobra makes 390hp. By the way there are very few stock cobras out there. The 94-95 are easily modefied due to the large volume of parts.

strange, someone named riceboy driving a firebird...

5.0: you have 300 hp with just a chip, h-pipe, and a cold air intake???? it sounds unlikely that you gain 60 hp with those three mods... but then again, what do I know? I drive a MPV.hahahahaha

its a rough estimate.

Originally posted by fatninja19
5.0: you have 300 hp with just a chip, h-pipe, and a cold air intake???? it sounds unlikely that you gain 60 hp with those three mods... but then again, what do I know? I drive a MPV.hahahahaha

it's quite easy to get large gains on those huge engines... so i'm not surprised if it's like that at all.

THERE IS NO WAY IN YOUR LIFETIME THAT A FORD, NO NO EVEN BETTER A MUSTANG WILL OUTHANDLE A SUBARU.

IF YOU WANNA TRY YOUR STANG AGIANST MY WRX ON THE HWY AND CORNERS BE MY GUEST. JUST FOR YOU YOULL GET ALL THE BOOST IN THE APEX AND THEN ON THE STRAIGHTAWAY.

A FOD RUSTANG CAN NEVER TOUCH AND ALL WHELL DRIVE CAR IN THE CORNERS..NEVER.

Originally posted by Super Spec V
THERE IS NO WAY IN YOUR LIFETIME THAT A FORD, NO NO EVEN BETTER A MUSTANG WILL OUTHANDLE A SUBARU.

IF YOU WANNA TRY YOUR STANG AGIANST MY WRX ON THE HWY AND CORNERS BE MY GUEST. JUST FOR YOU YOULL GET ALL THE BOOST IN THE APEX AND THEN ON THE STRAIGHTAWAY.

A FOD RUSTANG CAN NEVER TOUCH AND ALL WHELL DRIVE CAR IN THE CORNERS..NEVER.

Now I'm no mustang addict, in fact (sorry guys, just my opinion :D ) I don't like them that much. But a Cobra will give a WRX a run for it's money in th 1/4 (I've ridden in a friends WRX racing many many many mustangs) if you want to mod the 'stang and do it right they will pull on the WRX. Now as for handeling, I was arguing with SkylineUSA about this and he provided evidence that an LX could handle the slolom in times that would keep up with an R34 GTR, so I beleave it could keep up with the scoob:bloated: If driven right that is;)

YOU CAN PUT THE BEST DRIVER THERE IS INA RUSTANG, AND A FRESH NEWBIE WHO JUST GOT HIS LICENSE IN A SCOOBY, AND THE GUY DRIVING THE RUSTANG WILL LOOSE.

IN THE CORNERS A RUSTANG HAS NO CHANCE IN HISTORY TO COM CLOSE TO A SCOOBY.

IF YOU UP THE POWER ON A SCOOBY TO THE SAME AS A RUSTANG, THE RUSTANG WILL LOOSE IN THE QUARTER.

:smoker2:

Originally posted by Super Spec V
YOU CAN PUT THE BEST DRIVER THERE IS INA RUSTANG, AND A FRESH NEWBIE WHO JUST GOT HIS LICENSE IN A SCOOBY, AND THE GUY DRIVING THE RUSTANG WILL LOOSE.

IN THE CORNERS A RUSTANG HAS NO CHANCE IN HISTORY TO COM CLOSE TO A SCOOBY.

IF YOU UP THE POWER ON A SCOOBY TO THE SAME AS A RUSTANG, THE RUSTANG WILL LOOSE IN THE QUARTER.

:smoker2:

I could sit here and argue with you about this all day, so I'll just say this.

Prove it I'd like to see some test results.

*Edit*
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/Grip-Box.pdf

Just for the sake of ease of comparison, lets take the 600ft Slalom results. Now if you are prepaired to tell me that your rex with no suspension work will take a Hennessy Venom 650R or even a F355 then... Well I donno what to say, besides BS!!

THERE IS NO NEED TO PROVE OR ARGUE ABOUT ANYTHING. ANYONE WHO HAS DRIVEN HIGH PERFORMANCE CARS AND KNOWS WHAT TAKING CORNERS IS ALL ABOUT KNOWS THAT NO RUSTANG CAN KEEP UP WITH A SCOOBY IN THE CORNERS.

YOU WANT PROOF COME TO SHANNONVILLE RACEWAY WHEN WE RACE MOSPORT AND YOU WILL SEE PLENTY FORD MUSCLE HEADS THERE WITH THIER RUSTANGS VERY VERY VERY FAR AWAY BEHIND THE REST OF THE PACK. MY PROOF IS KNOWING CAUSE I GO THERE TO RACE. I HAVE WITH MY 99 2.5RS, MY 92 GOLF 2.0L 16V, AND WITH MY 91 BMW 3.25, AND ALL OF THE CARS THAT I DROVE THERE HAD NO PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER BLOWING PAST RUSTANGS.

SO MY LAST WORDS TO YOU ARE:

BRING ON YOUR MUSTANG TO THE CIRCUIT WITH WHATEVER KIND OF SUSPENSION YOU WANT (BRING YOUR FREINDS RUSTANGS TOO), AND I WILL BRING THE SCOOBY CREW WITH OUR CARS AND WE'LL SEE WHO IS THE LAST ONES TO THE FINISH LINE.

OH THAT IS IF YOU DONT WIPE OUT AFTER THE 2ND OR 3RD TURN TRYING TO KEEP UP WITH US.

Originally posted by Super Spec V
THERE IS NO NEED TO PROVE OR ARGUE ABOUT ANYTHING. ANYONE WHO HAS DRIVEN HIGH PERFORMANCE CARS AND KNOWS WHAT TAKING CORNERS IS ALL ABOUT KNOWS THAT NO RUSTANG CAN KEEP UP WITH A SCOOBY IN THE CORNERS.

YOU WANT PROOF COME TO SHANNONVILLE RACEWAY WHEN WE RACE MOSPORT AND YOU WILL SEE PLENTY FORD MUSCLE HEADS THERE WITH THIER RUSTANGS VERY VERY VERY FAR AWAY BEHIND THE REST OF THE PACK. MY PROOF IS KNOWING CAUSE I GO THERE TO RACE. I HAVE WITH MY 99 2.5RS, MY 92 GOLF 2.0L 16V, AND WITH MY 91 BMW 3.25, AND ALL OF THE CARS THAT I DROVE THERE HAD NO PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER BLOWING PAST RUSTANGS.

SO MY LAST WORDS TO YOU ARE:

BRING ON YOUR MUSTANG TO THE CIRCUIT WITH WHATEVER KIND OF SUSPENSION YOU WANT (BRING YOUR FREINDS RUSTANGS TOO), AND I WILL BRING THE SCOOBY CREW WITH OUR CARS AND WE'LL SEE WHO IS THE LAST ONES TO THE FINISH LINE.

OH THAT IS IF YOU DONT WIPE OUT AFTER THE 2ND OR 3RD TURN TRYING TO KEEP UP WITH US.

Ok, first of all, you keep saying "RUSTANG" what mustang are you talking about? GT, Standard V6, LX, Cobra, Saleen...???

Second of all, I do know what taking corners is all about, it's about road holding and turn in. These things can be boiled down into numbers in the 600ft slalom (check my edited post above).

Fancy a hill climb?
Virginia Hill Climb:
1. Amir Rosenbaum, 3.25.371 F40
2. Guy Cunningham, 3.26.082 Mustang
3. Dennis Chiodo, 3.32.063 Viper ACR
4. Ori Rosenbaum, 3.32.348 Viper
5. David Wilson, 3.33.441 F355

Now incase you failed to understand this, I am not "dissing" the scoob, I like them! But the facts stand that these blind and unsubstantiated claims don't stand. If you want to show me some lap times of professional drivers in a WRX vs those of a professional driver in a Mustang (GT, LX, Cobra, whatever) then you are having an intelligent debate about somthing and if you end up showing me that I'm wrong so be it.

Oh, and just a tip, if you don't use all caps and refrain from making broad generalzations, it tends to lend creed to your arguement.

I WILL DO MY BEST TO PROVIDE YOU WITH LAP TIMES AND SLALOM TIMES, HOWEVER I STILL BELEIVE AND COULD BET MY BALLS THAT A MUSTANG WILL NEVER BEAT A SCOOBY IN SLALOM OR CIRCUIT. NASCAR YES BUT ALL OTHERS NO.


BTW SORRY FOR THE CAPS BUT I NEED THEM ON FOR WORK PURPOSES. IM ALWAYS SWITCHING BETWEEN THE FORUM AND MY JOB, SO I JUST LEAVE THEM ON.

I'm sorry, but your wrong. You put a professional driver in ANYTHING! I don't care if it's a tercel with bald tires, they will still beat a shitty driver in a WRX, or any other car for that matter.

Simply because as soon as they get to the first corner the shitty driver is just gonna spin out and go off the track.

Spec V, did I read correctly that you think a WRX can out do the cobra in the 1/4?. Stop stateing opinion and look at the facts. Compare same years, the 2002 WRX runs a 14.1 in the 1/4, while the 2002 cobra runs a 13.5 in the 1/4. These are times submitted by Car and Driver magazine. The cobra out powers the WRX in almost every category. Granted though the all wheel drive system on the wrx would have advantages in isolated circumstances such as snow, rain and mud. Who takes a sports car out in these conditions. So super spec, stop your uneducated rambling. Bring facts and we will talk.

wrx's aren't THAT fast.
it's obvious you have never driven an actually powerful vehicle if you think a 227 hp 4 door sedan is an incredibly fast car.
my buddy's t/a ran a 14.6 (94 t/a 5.7 with intake and headers, 6 speed) and when we raced a wrx on the street we wiped the floor with it. it stayed with us until the light went green.

and until you get some proof otherwise, you better refrain from calling us morons

Originally posted by chebbiesux
wrx's aren't THAT fast.
it's obvious you have never driven an actually powerful vehicle if you think a 227 hp 4 door sedan is an incredibly fast car.
my buddy's t/a ran a 14.6 (94 t/a 5.7 with intake and headers, 6 speed) and when we raced a wrx on the street we wiped the floor with it. it stayed with us until the light went green.


You said it man, some people are as bad about WRXs as some are about Skylines. Just think it can eat everything :rolleyes: Hell, even a Torus SHO can keep up with a WRX. Even off the line, SHO pulls through 3rd, gone in 4th :D:p (Oh yes, and I've seen it happen... Several times:silly2: )

FIRST OF ALL I NEVER CALLED ANY ONE A MORON, AND SECOND OF ALL I WAS REFERRING THE WRXS CAPABILITIES IN HANDLING VS THE COBRA NOT 1/4 MILES TIMES, AND WHAT I SAID WAS THAT IF THE WRX HAD THE SAME POWER IN TERMS OF HP AS A COBRA, THE COBRA WOULD LOOSE, SO YOU GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT AND STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH.

SECOND OF ALL IF YOUR COBRA IS SOO FAST OR YOU STANG OR WHATEVER YOU HAVE, AND YOU EVER PLAN TO MAKE A TRIP TO ONTARIO FOR A DRAG IMPORT LET ME KNOW CAUSE I HAVE A SUPRISE FOR YOUR MUSTANG WITH MY WRX. IF YOU THINK YOU HAVE ENOUGH WITH YOUR STANG AND TA, THEN MAKE SURE YOUR READY CAUSE IN A FEW WEEKS ILL BE MORE THAN READY FOR YOUR STANG TA, CIVIC, WHATEVER YOU BRING WILL GET POPPED.

Seriously, how old are you Spec V? man stfu, your given us rex owners a bad name. You made the stupidest comment ever in saying "If the wrx had the same power in terms of HP as a cobra, the cobra would loose" Buddy, the same could be said for a corolla, or a civic. If THEY had the same hp they would be kicking ass as well. Some people should think before they type....:rolleyes:

Grow up spec V...........please!

I would like to let everyone know that if you dont like what im saying then pm me and we can discuss it there, not here in the forum. the forum is a place where discussions and disputes happen, a place where people come to learn, ask questions and post opignions, not a place where people get bashed. if you wanna bash me then do it in the pm, at least there i will have respect for you, because it would be the same as approaching me one on one, not in the forum like a little pussy, hoping that someone will take your side on what you say.

If you have a problem, then tell me dont me a suck about it.

You tell me to grow up. I have long before you have. And i have balls unlike you.

so dont be bitches with pussys. Be men with balls.

Originally posted by Super Spec V
I would like to let everyone know that if you dont like what im saying then pm me and we can discuss it there, not here in the forum. the forum is a place where discussions and disputes happen, a place where people come to learn, ask questions and post opignions, not a place where people get bashed. if you wanna bash me then do it in the pm, at least there i will have respect for you, because it would be the same as approaching me one on one, not in the forum like a little pussy, hoping that someone will take your side on what you say.

If you have a problem, then tell me dont me a suck about it.

You tell me to grow up. I have long before you have. And i have balls unlike you.

so dont be bitches with pussys. Be men with balls.

I'd have to agree with auswrx, you are giving rex owner's a bad rep. You don't sound too bright either, because if it weren't for bitches with pussys, men wouldn't have any use for their balls. Unless they were gay. So stop crying about how someone expressed their opinion about you. Here is me expressing my opinion right now. Talk about cars and stop whining.

You too, you too are a MUT.

Get a life.

You brand car owners like cow afarmers. (hey dont buy cows from them they got a bad name) shut up.

You dont even know me.

nad for your info im probally more educated than you are. I have a respectable job with IBM Corp, and probally making more money than you are you shit head, so dont judge a book by its cover.

You guys make me laugh (give wrx owners a bad name) you people are too serious about this shit.

Maybe you both need to get a job and a life too.

BTW what do you know about pussy, you've probally never fuc*ed one before. Unless you got lucky with your little cheese dick.

Originally posted by Super Spec V
You too, you too are a MUT.

Get a life.

You brand car owners like cow afarmers. (hey dont buy cows from them they got a bad name) shut up.

You dont even know me.

nad for your info im probally more educated than you are. I have a respectable job with IBM Corp, and probally making more money than you are you shit head, so dont judge a book by its cover.

You guys make me laugh (give wrx owners a bad name) you people are too serious about this shit.

Maybe you both need to get a job and a life too.

BTW what do you know about pussy, you've probally never fuc*ed one before. Unless you got lucky with your little cheese dick.

And you're talking about judging a book by its cover? Just because you are the head janitor oops, im sorry, custodian, at IBM, doesn't mean you are somebody. AND how do you figure you are more educated than me? To quote you, you dont know me. Also, I'd appreciate it if you didnt talk about my dick again, I know it probably excites you. But lets try and post stuff about racing in here, and keep your personal life out of this.

OK I GIVE UP.

IVE REALIZED THAT WHEN YOUR BORN AND RAISED IN A TRAILER PARK YOU TEND TO HAVE ALOT OF ISSUES WHEN YOUR OLDER, SO IVE ACCEPTED THE FACT THAT YOUR A LOG ROLLER AND NEED TO RENOVATE YOUR TRAILER....I MEAN CAR....I MEAN HOUSE.

See super spec, that is why people are calling you an idiot, instead of supporting your argument with meaningful facts you make childish dick jokes.

You say your smarter then everyone here because you make more money, wait no, we have no proof of that seeing as how you don't actually know anyone who you are referring to so how about we say you make a lot of money?

Big whoop-dee-freaking-doo.

Bush makes more then everyone here combined and he's still probably one of the top candidates for stupidest man alive.

Oh yeah, and a wrx could beat a cobra in the 1/4 if it had the same power? who cares, hell a geo metro would beat a cobra if it had the same power simply because it weighs less.

Gentlemen Gentlemen! Lets keep this war a war about cars :D

Super Spec V: Perhaps you should practice what you preach and continue any disputes about anything other then cars in PM, as you suggested.


Now about handeling, I posted info before about it, read up on it, tell me you think you can outhandle 355s and Venom 650Rs. If you do that then I will know to take anything you ever say agian with several grains of salt.

Anyhow, this is silly. Everyone has stated their opinion, some people have brought facts to the table, I suggest that the certian person who has not backed up his wild claims should being forth some evidence to substantiate them:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Gonthrax
Now about handeling, I posted info before about it, read up on it, tell me you think you can outhandle 355s and Venom 650Rs.

i sure as hell couldnt. my car handles good and all, but i know its limitations. its a good car, buts its not the all mighty god car. i could post a list of 30 cars that would outhandle an impreza on dry pavement right now off the top of my head, and im sure a lot more if i thought about it.

although i do disagree with u saying a taurus sho will pull away from a wrx, as i have raced a new sho and the previous one and beat both by over 3 tenths at the strip. maybe u were talking about a modded sho? :confused:

Originally posted by ldelaysionl


i sure as hell couldnt. my car handles good and all, but i know its limitations. its a good car, buts its not the all mighty god car. i could post a list of 30 cars that would outhandle an impreza on dry pavement right now off the top of my head, and im sure a lot more if i thought about it.

although i do disagree with u saying a taurus sho will pull away from a wrx, as i have raced a new sho and the previous one and beat both by over 3 tenths at the strip. maybe u were talking about a modded sho? :confused:

Actually it was bone stock, I saw under the hood. The owner is a really good driver though, and the WRX driver hadn't learned how to pop through the gears as well as he could:rolleyes: The SHO guy said he ran high 14s at the strip so I'm pretty sure it was driver related. Just thought it was kinda funny, my friend is afraid of all SHOs now :D

Originally posted by Gonthrax


Actually it was bone stock, I saw under the hood. The owner is a really good driver though, and the WRX driver hadn't learned how to pop through the gears as well as he could:rolleyes: The SHO guy said he ran high 14s at the strip so I'm pretty sure it was driver related. Just thought it was kinda funny, my friend is afraid of all SHOs now :D

alright i can see how that happened... that is kinda funny. :cwn27:

Originally posted by ldelaysionl


alright i can see how that happened... that is kinda funny. :cwn27:

It was ragged out too, one pipe was hanging... Sounded like crap. I had a good laugh out of it :hehehe: Even better laugh when it happened agian ;)

wait.. let me get this straight. spec v is saying that a scooby with the same amount of hp as a cobra will take it in the 1/4??? haha kinda wrong there buddy... after a certain amount of time wouldn't the awd system just rob it from highspeed? the power from the engine in the scooby would distribute throughout the wheels and it would lose high end acceleration right? and the cobra would have all it's power going to the rear wheels and it would get alot better high end acceleration right?? so how the hell is the scooby gonna beat it?? ahhh i dunno
just my 2 pennies.. i might be wrong

what the hell does scooby mean.
if my car was called a scooby i'd be pretty pissed off

Originally posted by chebbiesux
what the hell does scooby mean.
if my car was called a scooby i'd be pretty pissed off

subaru---scoobydoo...get it?

your all pretty funny as far as the subie goes they make decent cars as far as handling they all perform but this idiocy has to stop a wrx yes might pull on a stock gt maybe get lucky and hang with a cobra but the fact is that car makes 227 hp from 2 small litres that is a work of art but theres no substitute for raw power and besides a wrx looks like another bug eyed underpowered jap racer please all go home and buy a subie

"wait.. let me get this straight. spec v is saying that a scooby with the same amount of hp as a cobra will take it in the 1/4??? haha kinda wrong there buddy... after a certain amount of time wouldn't the awd system just rob it from highspeed? the power from the engine in the scooby would distribute throughout the wheels and it would lose high end acceleration right? and the cobra would have all it's power going to the rear wheels and it would get alot better high end acceleration right?? so how the hell is the scooby gonna beat it?? ahhh i dunno
just my 2 pennies.. i might be wrong"



Well I don't know the weight of each car but if the scooby is lighter it could do it. And the wrx does low 14's now but with the extra hp someone might be able guess what it would do.

subarus... camaros... mustangs...

pleaseeee you're all forgetting whos the king of all handling cars...

pssh Skyline? yeah right.. he wishes..

haha Diablo? nope.. he falls behind as well..

hehe mclaren? slow poke!

Im talking about the 54 Chevy Belair weighing in at just under 87 Tons with 200hp with 3 On the Tree!

All that power, and No Seatbelts.

Bow down people... Bow Down.
:hehehe:

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh All right, who dug this thing up?

hahahahhahahha

stock for stock the wrx would get wooped, but if with a larger turbo, it is a monster. i need to go to the trak to get some slips.....im waiting on some egt and fuel pressuer guages......but im absolutly sure i could run somewere in the 12's. the grip on a rex is what give it the advantage, wile lots of wrd cars spin there wheels the rex is on its way. now the rex does have a horibly slow trap speed, i think this is due to the awd. but you have to give our little car credit, 2.0 litters, under 25,000 it pack a big punch. i think some of you guys are comparing it with cars way outta its leage. but thats what makes ure cars great, they hold up well with cars of a much larger displacement and higher price. and to that other guy, the wrx comuntiy takes pride in there cars and how we as car owners are represented. we like to keep a classy image, if you start making a buch of ridiculus remarks it reflects on the way other people veiw wrx owners. just keep you cool. :sun:

Hey, I like the WRX. Its just not matching up to all the hype that goes on about them. My wife wants me to buy her one of the WRX wagon type models. Ought to do all right on these ky hills in the snow.

Originally posted by ldelaysionl
before the end of the straight stretch he turns off into a driveway, which sucks for me cuz there was a killer set of corners coming up and he was going down. :devil:

wait till i get some real hp so he cant leave me on the straights cuz i was smoking his ass in the corners.


STI engine and some nitrous !!!!


o yea very nice!! :hehehe: that woulda been tight it woulda been takumi style :hehehe:

How much does a 02 camaro z28 cost? under 25k right??

Plain and simple, cobras are slow, they have to go up against z-28's instead of ss's and the cobra will beat the wrx in the 1/4 but not in the twisties!

Originally posted by erricer
Plain and simple, cobras are slow, they have to go up against z-28's instead of ss's and the cobra will beat the wrx in the 1/4 but not in the twisties!

Really. The funny thing is there not making the camaro anymore. Somthing about not being able to sell any. Now, the 2003 cobra walks all over the ss, the tables are turned.

Originally posted by 94svt5.0


Really. The funny thing is there not making the camaro anymore. Somthing about not being able to sell any. Now, the 2003 cobra walks all over the ss, the tables are turned.


well, its not the Camaros fault that its getting cut... its the car salesmen at the Chevy dealerships. The Chevy finacial system is all screwed up. the basicaly turn down would-be Camaro owners cause they dont think they make enough $$$.

I've heard reports of people walking into Chevy dealers and asking about the Camaro and being led away from it towards a Cavalier or a Monte... they didnt PUSH it like Ford does the Mustang. As for Ford, you walk up asking about the Mustang they'll bend over back wards to get you into one... they dont care they love selling them to younger kids to keep up the Young guy/muscle car image. Unfortunately Chevy thought differently and thus sales suffered and now they're pulling the plug.

So lets not blame the actual car, yes the Camaro is badass in any form V6/z28/SS.. I actually can afford the payments of a new Camaro!.. just my insurance would triple.... stupid insurance.

The Mustang has always been cool, except from 74-86, they were just plain ugly then... then again all cars were.


my .14 cents.

actually the cobra costs about 7k more more fully loaded than a ss the reason that no camaros are sold is not because of the salespeople lol where did you here they turn down people wanting camaros ? lol i guess they do the same with those wanting corvettes camaros are simply ugly for years the camaro has been outsold by the mustang sometimes by a margin of 3:1 either way i like both but would take new mustang before a camaro

Originally posted by 94svt5.0


Really. The funny thing is there not making the camaro anymore. Somthing about not being able to sell any. Now, the 2003 cobra walks all over the ss, the tables are turned.

No the funny thing is that the camaro is still faster than your slowbra! And another funny thing is the 2003 isn't walking all over the ss, Ive seen 2003 cobras run anywhere from high 12's to low 14's. My point is that ss's run 13.5's all day long and they dont have blowers either! Slap a blower on a ss and see what happens!

Oh didnt think about that did yah! duh:finger:

Originally posted by erricer


No the funny thing is that the camaro is still faster than your slowbra! And another funny thing is the 2003 isn't walking all over the ss, Ive seen 2003 cobras run anywhere from high 12's to low 14's. My point is that ss's run 13.5's all day long and they dont have blowers either! Slap a blower on a ss and see what happens!

Oh didnt think about that did yah! duh:finger:


Get your facts straight. The 2003 cobra would walk, yes I said walk all over the ss. The 2003 cobra runs mid to high 12s all day every day, with street tires and a driver who knows what their doing. Yes a driver can make a mistake and run slower, but if its as slow as you listed, then what you think was a 2003 was really not. Pretty much any time a modded camaro beats a mustang with snake emblems its being labeled a 2003, sad. I did not realize the ss were that slow 13.5, they better watch out for my cobra. Your sounding like a ricer, " Its not fair it has a blower" What the heck is that? Next thing you know camaros will only run cobras if they unhook 4 plugs.

Actually I've seen the 2003 Cobra run a low 15.... That buster burnt out all the way through first and second...hahahhahaha. It's not the car that isn't consistant... it's the driver.

It's so stupid one someone says shit like... well if my engine was that big.... or..... if it had a blower like yours..... thats a stupid argument.

The SS should also be able to run low 13's at near sea level with a decent driver.

All in all, the Camaro has more "bang for the buck" than the Cobra.

Originally posted by banditkiller
actually the cobra costs about 7k more more fully loaded than a ss the reason that no camaros are sold is not because of the salespeople lol where did you here they turn down people wanting camaros ? lol i guess they do the same with those wanting corvettes camaros are simply ugly for years the camaro has been outsold by the mustang sometimes by a margin of 3:1 either way i like both but would take new mustang before a camaro

i've heard it from a few people i've talked too, they said they were turned away from the Camaro by the salesmen towards other vehicles... it does sound strange but its true none the less. Chevy hasnt been the smartest the last ohh say 10 years with its cars...

lets face it...

Ford gives its customers what they want, while chevy just keeps taking away what chevy fans want, no more v-8 impala, no more v-8 monte carlo, no more camaro. Sorry but ford has a lot going for it right now.

with that said... i still have faith in Chevy... they'll come up with something... i hope... If not, im getting me a GTO!

Originally posted by 94svt5.0



I did not realize the ss were that slow 13.5, they better watch out for my cobra. Your sounding like a ricer, " Its not fair it has a blower" What the heck is that? Next thing you know camaros will only run cobras if they unhook 4 plugs.

first of all you could supercharge a bone stock Z28, much less an SS, and have a car that would absolutely spank a new cobra, and look better doing it. and you could get such a supercharger for less than 4 grand and still come in at a lower price than the new cobra. I'm not knocking the new cobras by the way, I think they're nice. all I'm saying is that if anyone talks like a ricer it is you, I've been reading some of your posts on some of the other topics as well, and seems you are a little wishy washy. As a matter of fact, I just got through reading one of your other posts where you said "straight line racing is boring" and how handling is the real challenge. make up you damn mind and stop being "that guy" who always makes himself look like an ass.

Take a look at this.
This is straight from the Ford and Pontiac websites.

Here is the price of the V8 Trans Am. Yes it has ram air and its probably around 30,000 without it. Wow big deal.
Trans Am Coupe w/ Ram Air $31,915* as shown
Here is the price of the V6 Firebird.
$20,650*

Here is the price of the V8 Mustang (GT)
MSRP $23,845*

Thats 3,000 bucks more then a V6 Firebird for a nice V8 Mustang. Duh I wonder why Firebirds and Camaros are being done away with. If GM would get their high and mighty rich heads out their asses they'd realize if they want sales, lower the fucking prices you idiots.

I gurantee the GTO is going to be around the same price too. GM doesn't learn shit and I bet they'll fuck that up so badly they end up getting rid of the GTO again as well. I don't like Fords but goddamn the people there are a hell of a lot brighter then the people at GM are.

Perhaps Firebirds are more expensive because on the Chevy site, it says that the Z28 Coupe starts at $23,430. Ford says the GT costs $23,845.

Both prices are "Starting Manufacturers Retail Price, excluding taxes, title and registration fees. Optional equipment not included."

BTW, the SS coupe starts at $28,755... even though its not much faster than the z28..

trans ams have always been more expensive than the camaro for some reason. for example, the price of a '69 camaro was between $2,638 for the straight 6 coupe to $2,940 for the V8 conv. (these are standard prices) the firebird of the same year ('69) starts at $2,821 for cpe to $3,045 for conv. the difference percentage wise is kind of like today's difference between the two except it has gone up a little bit.

by the way, a mustang in '69 started at $2,635 up to $3,588 if you wanted a 302 fstbk.... meanwhile camaro's standard V8 was a 327 and you could pick up a 327 camaro for about $2,800 bucks

but yes, trans ams are a little pricey these days, or should I say were, anyways, I would rather buy a new camaro than a new stang, and they ARE about the same price

Originally posted by MadZ


first of all you could supercharge a bone stock Z28, much less an SS, and have a car that would absolutely spank a new cobra, and look better doing it. and you could get such a supercharger for less than 4 grand and still come in at a lower price than the new cobra. I'm not knocking the new cobras by the way, I think they're nice. all I'm saying is that if anyone talks like a ricer it is you, I've been reading some of your posts on some of the other topics as well, and seems you are a little wishy washy. As a matter of fact, I just got through reading one of your other posts where you said "straight line racing is boring" and how handling is the real challenge. make up you damn mind and stop being "that guy" who always makes himself look like an ass.



Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, if you like the way a camaro looks, thats fine with me. You have my permission. What do you mean by wishy washy?? Please explain. Straight line running all the time is boring. When have I said otherwise? Please explain. Once again you illustrate you dont know what your talking about. Yes, I like to go to the dragstrip and run, but I would rather hit a set of twisties. So, quit jumping into threads and make comments and statements that just show you do not know what your talking about.

That shot my theory out the window. See I knew the Trans Am was a more expensive car regardless it being the same car as the Camaro, but damn I didn't know the base price for a Z28 was that much of a difference. Hell that Z28 is cheaper then the GT and has more power to boot. As for why the Trans Am costs more, think of Pontiac as a classier Chevrolet. Like Acura is to Honda in a way (even though Pontiac and Chevy are under GM).

Most of the stuff Optional on a Chevy is standard on a Pontiac. Little things like daytime running lights, I think thats standard on any Pontiac vehicle, whereas a Chevy vehicle may not have that unless you order it.

I thought the Z28 might be around 27,000....heh damn should of checked before I said anything.

Originally posted by 94svt5.0




Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, if you like the way a camaro looks, thats fine with me. You have my permission.

lol... I have your permission, well thanks, I appreciate it

did I mention I have nothing against fords, well there, I said it again
I like a nice looking mustang just as much as the next guy, not to mention they are some of the best sounding cars on the road. I'm just tired of the occasional ford guy who actually thinks he has the baddest car in the world. make of that what you will

I don't like camaros or mustangs. Big ass, gas-guzzling muscle cars where the only way they can get power are from cubic inches. And ever try driving one into a corner? You might as well have the chassis of a cadillac fleetwood. True, my car could not keep up with those big brutes in a straight line, but then again, straightline racing is for wussies anyway. Throw a couple of corners into the mix, and then we'll see what's up. Oh yeah and to the guy with the scooby, congrats on keeping up with a car with twice the power of yours....impressive:cool:

so.... what are you saying, your 2000 nissan maxima can out-handle my camaro?
and what is this misconception that everyone has about domestics being bad handlers? my car handles quite nicely actually. I'm sure there are many imports that handle better than me in tight turns, but last time I checked most road courses have many straight-aways as well (and I'm not talking about your wal-mart parking lot autoX here either) so what I lack in the twisties I will more than make up for on the straights. I also have failed to see any front engine four banger or six cylinder for that matter cars on any proffessional road racing circuits. (notice I said front engine, so leave porche and the like out of this)

Originally posted by MadZ
I also have failed to see any front engine four banger or six cylinder for that matter cars on any proffessional road racing circuits. (notice I said front engine, so leave porche and the like out of this)

Define, "professional road racing circuts"...........there are plenty of skyline GT-R's racing in japan touring car series to prove you wrong. By the way, the skyline is a 2.6L I-6, front engine.

MADZ, whats your car run in the 1/4?

I'm sorry, I'm not as proficient on my knowledge of japanese anything, much less their racing circuits. It's not like they ever come on espn or speedvision or anything. So....tell me, how many of these japanese road racing events have you actually watched. (my god, GT3 has brainwashed you all)

Oh, and I haven't raced my car at the track yet, but with a conv. I'd guess I would turn a low 14 in descent track conditions and temp.

I wasn't professing to watch these things in Japan, I was just acknowledging their existence. Plus, the Goody's Dash series (right here in the "good" ol' USA) is a circle track series that runs front engine 4-bangers.....they even have a couple of toyota celica's out there.

interesting, well, I was simply trying to make a point as well, and obviously since this arguement could go on for all of eternity, I'm going to try and keep it short... I personaly would rather road race my camaro than most of your typical imports. and with some good suspension work and tires I could probably make it handle just as well.
I know this sounds kind of childish, but someone prove to me how a 4 banger import set up for road racing turns a faster lap time at any given course than say a... late model f-body or mustang set up for road racing? and some import guys even have the nerve to say that vettes are sloppy handlers as well! post some links to vids, give me a valid arguement, something please. and believe me, I will be the first to admit when I'm wrong.

Well, I don't have any video proof, I can't d/l those things since I am working with 56k here, but I will bet my life (well, maybe a lot of money) that an impreza WRX (import 4-banger) could not only stick with the F-body through the twisties, but down the straights as well. And for about the same price as an F-body, too, as well as two extra doors.

WRX's are nice, but they have their limits. their high end would suffer a bit too with the AWD. I still think you guys underestimate domestic cars

Hey, I'd take an '03 'stang cobra just as much as the next guy:smoker2:

Originally posted by street_racer_00
Hey, I'd take an '03 'stang cobra just as much as the next guy:smoker2:

Good choice.

A stock WRX will not hang with a newer Z-28 in the straights or twisties, it would have a fair chance against an LT1 Z in the straights, but the Camaro will more than hold it's own in the corners. Given equal drivers the Camaro will win hands down.

Ok, this is why you are wrong: #1: the WRX and Z28's 1/4 mile times are almost even, both running low 14's in what I have read in motor trend, road and track, and autoweek. #2: Slalom times for the WRX have been significantly faster than the Z28, probably due to the fact that the WRX is a few hundred pounds lighter AND has AWD (all-wheel drive). Also, road test editors have said that recent generation Z28's have had a "fluffy" chassis feel, whereas they have said the WRX's handling is razor sharp. Top end, the WRX probably would gradually fall behind the Z28, but on a racetrack, it would have an advantage.

front engine 4 and 6 cyl cars that regularly compete (and are successful) in professional road racing:

toyota altezza/lexus is300
toyota supra
mazda rx7 (well its a rotary)
mazda mp3/protoge/p5 (fwd)
honda civic type r (fwd)
acura integra type r (fwd)
honda s2000
nissan skyline
nissan silvia
nissan pulsar gtir
subaru wrx/wrx sti
mitsubishi lancer evolution

those are the japanese cars i can think of right now, we can get into eurpoean cars too. (bmw's, audi's, volvo's)



a z28 will pull away from a wrx at higher (freeway) speeds. but the wrx will make up for it in all but the most open of road courses. u think we underestimate domestic cars, and while that may be true, i think some of u underestimate import cars as well. given equal drivers the camaro wont always beat the wrx. if the drivers arent very experienced the wrx will win hands down because its just easy to drive fast. very forgiving on mistakes. with more skilled drivers, it would be closer, but the wrx should still win on anything short of a circle track.



and anyone who says vettes are sloppy handlers have obviously never seen a c5 in action with an experienced driver :eek:

MADZ go buy some BESTMOTORING INTERNATIONAL videos and get the video where its titled: is the Porcshe 996 KING? in that video they raced the best from the rest of the world vs. the the 3 fastest cars in japan. all stock all raced by legendary racers. thats when you'll see the corvette C5R get its doors blown off. it was all by itself in last place by a good 4 seconds. the Corvette represented the united states. and teh FR drive train with 350hp. the Ferrari F360 modena presented Italy and the MR layout with 400hp. the Porsche 996 turbo represented Germany with its AWD layout with 420hp. they chose the 3 fastest japanese imports. which was the Skyline GT-R. 280hp (yeah right~) AWD. the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 7 280hp and also AWD. then the NSX type S zero. 280hp MR. well heres how the order went

1st: Porsche 996
2nd: Skyline GT-R lost by .2 seconds
3rd: Mitsubishi Lancer Evo 7. lost by .3 seconds behind the GT-R.
4th: NSX type S zero: lost by 2 seconds behind the EVO
5th: Ferrari F360 Modena: lost by 1 second behind the NSX.
6th: Corvette C5R: lost by a good 1+ second behind the Ferrari. i was sooo far behind. even the narrator said " the cars not slow but are the other cars too much for the corvette?" cause it was all by itself in last place.

now i swear to my grand fathers grave on this video and they feature legendary racers driving them such as Kuwasa (Gan San), Tuschiya Keichi (drift king) and still drives the ARTA NSX in the GT500 series.
Hatori (japanese F1 champ) and Nakaiya (ex japanese GT champion and owns his own racing school) sooo this video proves that you can have a 6 and even a 4 banger spank some major v8 ass. soo that should be a valid enough point.

I will definately have to watch that video. are you sure it was a C5R?

was there a japanese guy driving the vette? because I've seen some very biased japanese videos where they were showing there cars go against ferrari's and and other exotics and beating them. and supposedly the jap cars were stock (yeah right)

as for the video, I'll believe it when I see it.

Originally posted by ldelaysionl
front engine 4 and 6 cyl cars that regularly compete (and are successful) in professional road racing:

toyota altezza/lexus is300
toyota supra
mazda rx7 (well its a rotary)
mazda mp3/protoge/p5 (fwd)
honda civic type r (fwd)
acura integra type r (fwd)
honda s2000
nissan skyline
nissan silvia
nissan pulsar gtir
subaru wrx/wrx sti
mitsubishi lancer evolution



define professional. do people actually pay to see civics and integras and such race? this must be another jap thing.

and if these cars are so bad ass then why aren't there any in races such as 24 hrs at LeMans?

Chew on this.

1991: Mazda prototype 3-rotor wins overall
1999: Nissan R390 (3.5L 6 cylinder front engined GT1 car) finishes on the podium

Enough said.

hey, I just found that video listed on the net and they do not compare it to a C5R from what I just read.

click here buddy (http://www.granturismo.com/bmi/vol3.html)

:D

Originally posted by street_racer_00
Chew on this.

1991: Mazda prototype 3-rotor wins overall
1999: Nissan R390 (3.5L 6 cylinder front engined GT1 car) finishes on the podium

Enough said.

hey, thats nice and all, but I was talking about the cars listed in the previous posts
skyline
lancer
etc....
etc....

Z51 is just the name of the suspension package on the vette, far from a C5R, sorry to burst your bubble

and I'm sure thats not a biased source right? the whole video magazine series supports honda! c'mon! They probably still hold a grudge over the whole hiroshima thing or something...lol

yes the Z51 is not a ordinary C5. its better then a C5 due to a better suspension and lighter wheels. plus that magazine is not honda biase. since most of the cars are nissans. in japan you will rarely ever see fast honda's. and back in 95-96 the japanese cars did compete in the Le Man's 24 our race. the R33 skyline GT-R competed and so did the NSX. however the skyline had a mechanic problem and was forced to drop out of the race. and the NSX won its class. which Tuschiya drove. and they had another NSX competeting in the GT1 class that was suppose to rival the Mclaren. it was a 600 hp turboed version. however that too suffered mechanical problems and was forced to drop out. and it hasn't really been driven ever since. you have to still give the premium japanese cars some respect man. think about it. the R33 Skyline GT-R was the first homologation car to break the 8 minute barrier at the Nuremburg test course. it completed it in 7 minutes and 49 seconds. it even blows always the new M3 with the carbon fiber body parts. that M3 did it at a speed that was supposibly really fast. which was a time of 8 minutes and the standard M3 can do it in around 8 minutes and 30 seconds. the only cars that can beat the Skylines record was the more expensive exotics that dont' count as homogolation models. like the Porsche GT2 and so on.

the 2 fastest street cars at the nurburgring are porsches. both have well over 500hp. the 3rd car is a skyline. it beat out all the other street cars to attempt. lamborghini diablos, ferrari testarossas, c5 vettes, all beaten by a 280hp skyline.

if youll look at the speedvision touring car races here in america youll see hondas, acuras, mazdas, toyotas, and the like competing. look at the JGTC in japan or touring cars in europe for more.

u dont see that kind of stuff here in america cuz the touring cars havent really caught on here yet. just like rally. for some reason most people here still think watchin a rwd v8 taurus drive in circles all day is more exciting than watching actual production-based vehicles go around a road course or fly through the forest on icy roads in the middle of the night :confused:

and a z51 vette is a long way from a c5r.

In the defense of madZ, they could have used a Z06 or something faster than a "regular" c5, that might have made a difference.

thanks for posting this info. I had no idea that skylines had ever competed in the past.
wasn't trying to flame on yall about the whole C5R thing, I just found it hard to believe so I had to prove otherwise.
I'll still have to watch that video. I have a hard time believing that it's not a biased source.



Originally posted by ldelaysionl

u dont see that kind of stuff here in america cuz the touring cars havent really caught on here yet. just like rally. for some reason most people here still think watchin a rwd v8 taurus drive in circles all day is more exciting than watching actual production-based vehicles go around a road course or fly through the forest on icy roads in the middle of the night :confused:

I 100% agree with you here, I for one love watching rally, and get too bored watching nascar

I watch all kinds of racing all over the world, and I have to say the most exciting is rally racing. Nothing gets me more pumped up than watching those cars fly over those jumps at 100 mph and slide sideways through a path in the forest while the spectators are only some 20 or 30 yards away, even closer at some points, it's great!:frog:

well MADZ that was a mistake on my part. if completely forgot that the C5R is a totally different car then a ordinary C5. when you told me that Z51 is no where near as good as a C5R. i was thinking. hmmmmmmmmmm oh shit!! the C5R is the car that competes in the u.s. 12 hour lemans races!! ooops. sooo that was my screw up. however. they drivers are looking at these cars from a very very neutral perspective. Tuschiya praised the Vette for its power and handling. and Nakaiya actually writes his own Porsche magazine called Porsche fan. in fact they even did a special issue in BESTMOTORING all about american cars. the catch line for that title was. "how do american's make fast cars? simple you strap the biggest engine on to the lightest chassis possible. and it works!" they didn't translate that issue yet though.

plus you got to understand that the japanese cars in japan are on a totally different level then the japanese cars int he states. most of the cars you see in japan that are tuned has all show and almost no go. all there kits are real functional pieces that don't weigh the car down and add drag. instead it lightens the car and decreases the Co efficient of drag and adds down force. the people in japanese tuner shops even give out loans for people to modify their cars. in japan if you go to a skyline meeting. if your skyline doesn't have atleast 700hp they look at you with a weird face. plus i've seen videos of japanese highway battles. and they straped a camera on to a skyline and you see it acelerate and acelerate and acelerate on a narrow ass 2 lane highway until it breaks the 200mph point. all the cars and trucks by then was being pasted like it was goin the opposite direction. not to mention the monster drag skylines made for the 0-300km (0-186 mph) dash. the fastest i've seen it was a old gold R32 which did it in 13.75 seconds. thats why the imports in the states are garbage compared to the imports in the land of the rising sun. we can all only dream of participating in the stuff they do cause its absolutely insane. i can almost garantee you. you take any demonstic. trap a blower or whatever you want to it. and the imports in japan can run with the best if not beat it.

my 2 cents.

I think this is clearly a case of the grass being greener on the other side.
I bet japanese kids over there think that f-bodies and vettes are cool, just as you guys are drooling over skylines and sh*t.

I know I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I strongly believe it.

I'd be willing to bet that 95% of the people who are drooling over skylines and lancer's and such had no idea that these cars even existed until the first "Gran Turismo" came out.

I'm not pointing fingers here either, so don't get your panties in a wad. some of you guys in this post seem to know what your talking about, but seriously, am I the only one that sees this?

I can't say I fall into that percentage, I haven't even played on a PS2, nevermind own one.

madz you are extremely right. it was Gran Turismo that introduced me to true JDM cars. there is nothing wrong with that. it just happen to take "discoverying them" to the next level. i actually studied these cars. usually when i have a favorite car. it always gets replaced by another one in a month or so. but thats not the case with the skyline. no matter how i look at it. i cna't seem to find a single weakness thats strong enough for me to de throne it. the nsx had been dethroned. the firebird had been dethroned, the VR4 had been dethroned, the 300ZX TT had been dethroned. and the supra mark IV TT had been dethroned. all of these cars took about a month of research for me to find a major flaw. but i've been drooling over the skyline since 98!!! and i still love it more and more. the more i find out about it. the more impressed i am with it. and that car continues to evolve every year. even if its in the same generation. they would always do stuff to it to make it even better.

madz you are extremely right. it was Gran Turismo that introduced me to true JDM cars. there is nothing wrong with that. it just happen to take "discoverying them" to the next level. i actually studied these cars. usually when i have a favorite car. it always gets replaced by another one in a month or so. but thats not the case with the skyline. no matter how i look at it. i cna't seem to find a single weakness thats strong enough for me to de throne it. the nsx had been dethroned. the firebird had been dethroned, the VR4 had been dethroned, the 300ZX TT had been dethroned. and the supra mark IV TT had been dethroned. all of these cars took about a month of research for me to find a major flaw. but i've been drooling over the skyline since 98!!! and i still love it more and more. the more i find out about it. the more impressed i am with it. and that car continues to evolve every year. even if its in the same generation. they would always do stuff to it to make it even better.

I actually discovered the skyline while looking for a website with aftermarket parts for my car, that was about a couple of years ago. And I discovered the Lancer Evo through the move "who am I" with Jackie Chan!

Originally posted by TatII
madz you are extremely right. it was Gran Turismo that introduced me to true JDM cars. there is nothing wrong with that. it just happen to take "discoverying them" to the next level. i actually studied these cars. usually when i have a favorite car. it always gets replaced by another one in a month or so. but thats not the case with the skyline. no matter how i look at it. i cna't seem to find a single weakness thats strong enough for me to de throne it. the nsx had been dethroned. the firebird had been dethroned, the VR4 had been dethroned, the 300ZX TT had been dethroned. and the supra mark IV TT had been dethroned. all of these cars took about a month of research for me to find a major flaw. but i've been drooling over the skyline since 98!!! and i still love it more and more. the more i find out about it. the more impressed i am with it. and that car continues to evolve every year. even if its in the same generation. they would always do stuff to it to make it even better.

skylines... you're forgetting that instead of an airbag, they have a giant metal pike that shoots out and impales you? call it a mean joke by Nissan but its a flaw in my book.

I don't care if the brake pedal is attached to a crossbow aimed at my head, I'd still like to own one.

eeerrr you didn'tk now that the skylines comes with airbags? as small as the steering wheel seems. there is still a air bag in there. if you look at all the wrecked skyline photos. you see the airbags. sooo nope. no flaw to me.

Originally posted by TatII
madz you are extremely right. it was Gran Turismo that introduced me to true JDM cars. there is nothing wrong with that. it just happen to take "discoverying them" to the next level. i actually studied these cars. usually when i have a favorite car. it always gets replaced by another one in a month or so. but thats not the case with the skyline. no matter how i look at it. i cna't seem to find a single weakness thats strong enough for me to de throne it. the nsx had been dethroned. the firebird had been dethroned, the VR4 had been dethroned, the 300ZX TT had been dethroned. and the supra mark IV TT had been dethroned. all of these cars took about a month of research for me to find a major flaw. but i've been drooling over the skyline since 98!!! and i still love it more and more. the more i find out about it. the more impressed i am with it. and that car continues to evolve every year. even if its in the same generation. they would always do stuff to it to make it even better.

well, now that I think about it, I guess there is nothing wrong with being introduced to it by a video game, I just get tired of some people pineing over a car that is half the world away and may never make it over to the states. everyone talks out there ass saying that they are going to buy one and do this and that, but the sad truth is that unless these cars come to the U.S., I'd say less than 1% of these people would actually buy one from overseas. There's just no market for them in the U.S. right now anyways. (maybe in about 10 to 15 years...maybe) But as of right now, anyone who actually has the money to afford one is probably at least in their mid-twenties and up and have no idea what a skyline is.

YOU CAN PUT THE BEST DRIVER THERE IS INA RUSTANG, AND A FRESH NEWBIE WHO JUST GOT HIS LICENSE IN A SCOOBY, AND THE GUY DRIVING THE RUSTANG WILL LOOSE.

IN THE CORNERS A RUSTANG HAS NO CHANCE IN HISTORY TO COM CLOSE TO A SCOOBY.

IF YOU UP THE POWER ON A SCOOBY TO THE SAME AS A RUSTANG, THE RUSTANG WILL LOOSE IN THE QUARTER.

:smoker2:
Okay slick you say that a "Scooby" will beat a Mustang in the quarter mile? are you talking about a V8 Mustang? Lets not get ahead of yourself, you realize that for a Scooby, as you call it, to make the same power as a Mustang it takes goobs of turbo boost on their a lack luster 4 bangers. Ooooooh yeah look at your Subaru its really a techno wonder you throw 15 pounds of boost at it and it makes at 250-300 hp oooh!! Well guess what, if you put that much boost into any 4 cylinder it will make that much power. What you fail to realize is that when a V8 Mustang owner decides to turbo charge or supercharge their V8 with a similar boost level they are going to get twice the power, simple laws of the internal combustion engine. Example the 4.6 cobra with 390 hp and barely 7 pounds of boost compared to the 2.5 Sti's whoping 14 psi and a measly 300 hp. This kind of V8 performance will blow the doors off your little glorified disposeable econo junk you call a performance car. You will never be able to ultimately make the kind of power that a V8 Mustang is capable of unless you plan on putting something different under the hood of your so called scooby. What does that all amount to? I'll tell you, your scooby eating dust. So dont even talk about the quarter mile cause you know you're talking trash. With all of this power abord the Mustang, even with slightly less cornering ability if any less, will make a Scoobie Snack out of the Scoobie in any kind of competition and you know it. In fact these two vehicles are not even in the same catagorey and really shouldnt be compared in the first place because on one hand you have a fine storied example of AMERICAN automotive performance(Mustang) and then there is hyped, underpowered, plastic winged junk from over seas that is here today and gone tomarrow(Subaru). You may think your hot stuff at your little corner contests but I go to drag races quite a bit and barely ever see a import, especially a subaru. You know why? They talk lots of trash but they are scared stupid and are ashamed of their huge wings, shift lights and gold wheels when they are running shameful 14's. Thats not performance, thats a joke and so is the import scene.

Yeah well the Cobra engine is quite a bit bigger then the STi's so that's to be expected. It doesn't impress me how either of them get the hp that they do. I doubt it can beat the Mach I but that Subaru can definately beat a GT Mustang. Which is one of those V8 Mustangs you seem to think can't lose.

Bunch of BS

You talk big but you don't seem to realize that STi can turn a 12 second 1/4 bone stock. That's just as fast as your Cobra.

The import scene is a joke? Any car can be fast, no matter where it's made, and if you're a car enthusiast you should be able to respect that. For you to be going off about imports like this for no reason shows you must be insecure about something, especially since you revived such an old thread. All you have done is show your ignorance and close mindedness.

Leave.

The STI has less power, but it also weighs some 500 lbs less WITH AWD. They have very similar quarter-mile times.

You sound just like a Supra fan-boy screaming about stock bottom end. It's pretty telling a car you call an "econobox" will outrun your "performance" car out of the box.

The Cobra is also no match for an STI on the track. All it takes is a quick look at the brakes (Cobras have floating calipers for god sakes) to figure that out. A couple of stops in a 3700lb Cobra at high speeds and you would be praying for that STI.