Oz GP


RallyRaider
03-05-2005, 01:37 AM
Who saw 1st qualifying? What a farce...

ales
03-05-2005, 01:43 AM
It was always going to be that way :( Luckily, you didn't have to wake up at 4 am to watch it after going to bed 2 hours earlier.

RallyRaider
03-05-2005, 01:54 AM
It was always going to be that way :(

Thanks to Max yes, but it shouldn't be. Who am I kidding, only constant we can expect in F1 rule changes is stupidity. Funny how we had a system that worked just fine for 45 years, until those who know best abandoned it. If they are so damn clever why must they now tweak the format every year?
The bizarre rulings continued in the support races. In the V8 Supercar 19 lapper they weren't allowed to change tyres, so most of the field had to stay on wet tyres as the track almost fully dried. Abject lesson in how to take the "sport" out of Motorsport. :thumbsdow

ales
03-05-2005, 02:01 AM
A large part of the blame for the current qualifying format should be placed and Jordan's and Stoddart's doorsteps as they blocked the proposed change for the better. Ultimately, they went on and changed it for the worse. All that was needed, IMO, was a small tweaking to the 12-lap system to encourage the teams to use all the 12 laps and all 60 minutes of the session. It was so bleeding obvious that the aggregate system was never going to work I just don't know why they implemented it.

Are the V8 supercars usually allowed to change tyres (haven't been following much since the Ambrose whitewash started)? I do remember seing pitstops, so I presume this was an OZ-GP-support-race-special rule? Sounds pretty stupid.

RallyRaider
03-05-2005, 02:08 AM
Problem ain't the agreggate, rather the single lap system. Whilst there is no way to make it completely fair, under the old system (pre 1996, even pre 2003) the teams and drivers were able to control their own destiny. How exacty can you blame Stoddart and Jordan for the current system?

Only thing worth watching in V8 Supercars is Ambrose! :lol: And he is off to NASCAR next year. :mad: I think the rule about tyres was just for this event, probably due to lack of pits space.

ales
03-05-2005, 02:13 AM
I seem to recall that Jordan and Minardi blocked the attempt to get rid of the single lap qualifying system because they didn't want to lose the TV exposure (the reason the single-lap system was introduced in the first place). And I agree, it is a problem, but aggregate times make it 2 times worse!

No more Ambrose? Yay! :D

RallyRaider
03-05-2005, 02:22 AM
I seem to recall that Jordan and Minardi blocked the attempt to get rid of the single lap qualifying system because they didn't want to lose the TV exposure (the reason the single-lap system was introduced in the first place). And I agree, it is a problem, but aggregate times make it 2 times worse!

I thought it was Ferrari boycotting changes at Siverstone last year? Anyway, not relevant as it should never have been changed in the first place. Max hasn't even achieved his original aim of making the show more TV friendly.

Again the aggregate part isn't an issue for me, rather the lottery that occurs when we have weather like today. One good thing was to see Kimi and Montoya's Michelins faster than Rubens' Bridgestones in the wet at the end.

No more Ambrose? Yay! :D
Are we the complete opposite in everything? :lol:

ales
03-05-2005, 02:36 AM
What the aggregate times do, though, is take away the possibility to recover from a mistake or bad luck on the first day of qualifying in the second session. There is no way that Fisico will lose the pole with the gap he has unless he stuffs it, and there is no way for Schumi, Massa, and Sato to move up the grid from their positions. So I totally agree that this format should never have been introduced, but even less so should it have been change for the worse.

We do seem to have reasonably similar views on rallying :uhoh: :cwm27: :22yikes:

ales
03-05-2005, 02:45 AM
Anyway, the results and some predictions of mine

Pos No Driver Team Laps Time/Retired Grid Points

1 6 Giancarlo Fisichella Renault 1:33.171

2 16 Jarno Trulli Toyota 1:35.270

3 7 Mark Webber Williams-BMW 1:36.717

4 11 Jacques Villeneuve Sauber-Petronas 1:36.984

5 15 Christian Klien Red Bull Racing 1:37.486

6 14 David Coulthard Red Bull Racing 1:38.320

7 8 Nick Heidfeld Williams-BMW 1:39.717

8 3 Jenson Button BAR-Honda 1:41.512

9 19 Narain Karthikeyan Jordan-Toyota 1:44.357

10 9 Kimi Räikkönen McLaren-Mercedes 1:44.997

11 10 Juan Pablo Montoya McLaren-Mercedes 1:45.325

12 2 Rubens Barrichello Ferrari 1:45.481

13 18 Tiago Monteiro Jordan-Toyota 1:46.846

14 5 Fernando Alonso Renault 1:47.708

15 21 Christijan Albers Minardi-Cosworth 1:49.230

16 20 Patrick Friesacher Minardi-Cosworth 1:50.864

17 17 Ralf Schumacher Toyota 1:51.495

18 1 Michael Schumacher Ferrari 1:57.931

19 12 Felipe Massa Sauber-Petronas

20 4 Takuma Sato BAR-Honda

If tomorrow's qualifying session takes place in conditions equal for everyone, then I don't see Fisico losing the pole, Mclaren drivers moving up more than 1 position unless someone in front of them makes a total mess of it, and the same gors for the last 3. If that is the case, then the race could well be Fisichella's to lose as the ones behind him don't have the cars as fast as his, and those behind them will probably be stuck in traffic too much and wear their tyres much more than the leader because they will need to overtake. Unless the two silver bulls take each other out in the first corner. And of course Renault's starts will make sure Fisichella doesn't lose the lead at the start of the race. Should both Mclarens survive the race, they may well end up on the podium. As far as I know, dry conditions are predicted for tomorrow.

RallyRaider
03-05-2005, 02:52 AM
That's true I guess, aggregate doubles the chance of a mixed up session like today. However it is the single lap format that make things a lottery if the weather intervenes. Mistakes should be part of the game, but poor Massa stuck on dry tyres in a sudden downpour is downright unfair. I almost felt sorry for Schumacher too. Almost :lol:

Good thing we agree on rallying, it is the most important after all. :)

ales
03-05-2005, 02:58 AM
I disagree that it's the most important thing! :D

RallyRaider
03-05-2005, 02:59 AM
Yeah Kimi should be able to put .7 of a second on Karthikeyan tomorrow and move up to ninth, that is about it though. As for the race, Melbourne is has been almost as bad as Monaco for overtaking lately, will the hard compound tyres change that? McLaren have been way down the list in top speeds so far this weekend so overtaking the faster outright Red Bulls and Sauber may not be so easy.

RallyRaider
03-05-2005, 03:00 AM
I disagree that it's the most important thing! :D
That's a relief!

ales
03-05-2005, 03:07 AM
My point exactly. If Fisi keeps his cool, the race will be much easier for him than anyone else.

RallyRaider
03-05-2005, 03:15 AM
In the wash a Fisi win would be a great result, still he hasn't got it in the bag just yet. ;) Webber P3 is welcome for the home town boy too. So it's not all bad news.

Okay so Melbourne isn't Webber's home town but you know what I mean. :)

ales
03-05-2005, 03:24 AM
I'd realyl like Mark and Nick to do well, but so far the Willaims car hasn't looked too impressive, unfortunately. Although Fisico will also be the only one apart from Massa on slick(ish) tyres that are not new, but I don't think it will prove to be too big a disadvantage.

RallyRaider
03-05-2005, 03:39 AM
Yeah, unlikey one extra heat cycle is going to make much of a difference to the new long life tyres. I am actually looking forward to finding out how tyre management affects the race, could make for some interesting changes in relative speed at different times. On the other hand, with the testing and computer silmulations available these days, all variables are probably well and truly sorted by all the teams.

ales
03-05-2005, 05:12 PM
Some great track action at the start of Q2! In my dreams. What the heck is the advantage of running an effectively installation lap (Sato, Schumi) as opposed to not bothering to go out at all (Massa)?

RallyRaider
03-05-2005, 08:56 PM
Prabably because Schumacher (and I assume Sato as well?) changed engines overnight.

speed_star
03-05-2005, 10:11 PM
Webber got into Schuey!!!!!! :eek:

EDIT: Actually that was Schuey's bad.

RallyRaider
03-05-2005, 10:45 PM
Heideld rather, I'm guessing Schumacher was just looking for an excuse to retire and thus a fresh engine for Sepang.

Awesome race by Renault, Fisichella and Alonso, although Barrichello showed Ferrari are still very strong. Dissapointing for Montoya in the McLaren, Kimi did okay to scrape a point after starting from pitlane and modifying the car mid race, his first lap must have been something special. Webber was solid but nothing special.

Biggest surprise had to be Coulthard in the RBR Cosworth. Magic move on Webber at the first corner and solid pace all afternoon. I wonder if there is enough left in that engine for next race?

ales
03-05-2005, 10:52 PM
Webber finished 4th, the one involved in the Schumi accident was Heidfeld.

No surprise as far as the winner goes, great drive from Rubens and Alonso, star of the race for me, and I never thought I'd say that, are DC and Red Bull :eek: Both BAR cars came into the pits on the last lap clearly to exploit the loophole in the engine rule. Toyota must really chew the tyres considering how quickly Trulli went backwards after the pitstop, even though he spent the first part of the race in a very comfortable 2nd place.

Oh, and the 2005 regulations failed miserably. There were what, 2 overtaking maneuvres among the cars on equal fuel loads? Even if the car is much faster (Alonso vs JV), it's close to impossible to overtake. There were at least 3 pairs of cars fighting for position during the last few laps, but yet again, nothing happened. So we're stuck with this procession for yet another year it seems.

RallyRaider
03-05-2005, 10:57 PM
Webber finished 4th, the one involved in the Schumi accident was Heidfeld.

Webber was 5th, no better than in a Minardi three years ago! :p

RallyRaider
03-05-2005, 11:04 PM
Both BAR cars came into the pits on the last lap clearly to exploit the loophole in the engine rule.

How predictable was somebody doing that? Very blatant. :thumbsup:

ales
03-05-2005, 11:13 PM
My bad.

I find it so funny that Mclaren dump DC and Webber dumps Jaguar, and then DC/RBR finish in front of them in the first race. :D Ahh, the irony. Don't think it will last though. Then again, both RBR cars finished in the points, each in front of a Mclaren, and are now equal with Ferrari in the points standings. Mclaren still gets the award for the horniest look in F1 ;) When viewed from the front the horns seem to be attached to the drivers' helmets giving that grotesquely viking look. So cool, seriously! Quite where RBR found the pace is quite puzzling, though, and makes one wonder just what was going on at Jaguar.

ales
03-05-2005, 11:15 PM
Very predictable, and I expect any team out of the top 8 who have half a chance of a decent result in the next race to do the same.

camaroincal
03-05-2005, 11:47 PM
In the end, I'm just glad to be entertained by an F1 race in quite some time...

RallyRaider
03-06-2005, 02:03 AM
I wonder if Schumacher will be penalised for running Heidfeld off the track? Ten grid positions? Na, probably not. :p

Veyron
03-07-2005, 09:27 AM
When the hype, drama and other crap created by the teams and FIA before the season exceeds the excitement of the races....you know a series is in big trouble. <yyyyaaawwwnnn>

F1 has reached an all time mark on the boring meter, I'll check in occasionally to see if they've changed the rules...otherwise I'm not wasting my time to watch the races.

Bring back F1, racing to see who can save the most tire tread and engines is not racing. :rolleyes:

camaroincal
03-07-2005, 10:08 PM
Well, I watched this race and it was very entertaining. Lots of evertaking, a couple of "shunts", and some contreversy regarding loopholes in the rules. So far so good imo. Then again....My favorite team is Renault! :P

speed_star
03-11-2005, 04:58 PM
Yes it was Heidfield my bad! :uhoh:

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