Manuel vs. Auto

In your mind, if you get an auto tranny, then are you a phag? I mean really...what's soooo wrong with an auto? I see for racing it might not be as GOOD, but can you give me some subtle hints why?

Try this for the Mustang GT '02

Personally, I prefer manual. There are a lot of reasons for this. One is just the cost. Automatics are more expensive to buy and more expensive to fix. They're not built as strong as a manual. Fords automatics are also infamous for having problems. I think manuals are just plain more fun to drive (except for in bumper to bumper traffic jams).

If you have a car that does a 10 sec 1/4 or better, an auto is the way to go.

Now for road course racing manual is the way to go.

If you have a girlfriend, I would want an auto:D

So Autos are not gay, but your better know how to drive a manual :p

My daily driver has a six speed and I love it, except for when I'm sitting in traffic. My weekend car has a C4 automatic and it's deadly when it comes to the stop light wars and it has that instant kick down which catches people off guard.

Automatics are good for bracket racing because they offer consistancy. Manuals are good for real drivers who like to take a car to it's limits or anybody who does open track / autocross racing.

Automatics are actually really good for racing,but i rather have a manual when it comes to a girlfriend..if she dont know how to use it..she cant touch it..

Originally posted by CobraMan
Automatics are actually really good for racing,but i rather have a manual when it comes to a girlfriend..if she dont know how to use it..she cant touch it..

Amen to that...

I've loved my standards and still do.

Power: More engine power hits the ground. (period)
--No fluid-powered clutches caught and released using up HP/TQ, just straight up human foot-lbs. used.

Control: Make your point.
--Don't worry about shift points whether mech. set or computer, just make them up as you go. It depends on the traffic, the engine temp, air temp, fuel your on, corner your in, etc. Even computers can't shift like an Andretti.

It's a guy thing: *grunt*
--I gotta agree: It's better if the girl just watches in awe as you drive. (If she can pull her head off the seat)

Originally posted by Baonus
Even computers can't shift like an Andretti.


Yeah, you're right. Computers shift faster.
No human can shift faster then a computer.
The problem with automatics is chosing the right torque converter for your application and having your shift points adjusted properly.

For drag racing, auto is king.
For auto crossing, manual rules.

Personally I love my auto, granted a stick is more fun to drive! I still love the disadvantage, the look on someone's face when I win a race and then tell them I have an auto is priceless! Although I often wonder how much faster my car would be if it were a stick?

I wouldn't go as far as saying AOD's are week, no worse then a stock T5 which have their problems too. AOD's can be built up for pretty cheap too, if done before they totally grenade. A good stall converter is mandatory. A manual valve body, Lentech makes a great one with an OD lockout, that will firm up shifts far better then any shiftkit. A solid one piece input shaft will greatly strengthen that area, cause of less moving parts of the stock 3 piece shaft. Then a trans cooler for added protection, and a remote filter to clear debris isn't a bad idea.

4 speed top loader, straight in line driving or cornering! Adjustable shift points for different conditions!

Originally posted by Blackbird01




For drag racing, auto is king.
For auto crossing, manual rules.

Yep, I have a C4 in my stang as well as some of the other guys on here. I said a C4........ not an AOD. There is a difference in the kind of automatics. If you were asking about a stock automatic compared to a stock manuel, then the manuel is usually the way to go(faster), BUT BEWARE of a FULL RACE Automatic with a high stall, racing bands and clutches and especailly a TRANS BRAKE!!!! You are in for a treat there.

what is a trans brake? I feel I should know this and such, but....

Auto isnt as fun, but can defentally make racing better, I always want to shift though and fell like I could be doing more. Hope this goes away when I get my shift kit...

First of all, My C4 has a manuel valve body, meaning, I have to manually shift from 1st to 2nd to 3rd (only a 3 speed). The Trans Brake is a device in your transmission that locks the tranny up at a stand still in 1st gear while you rev your motor to your stall speed. I have a 3,000-3,500 10" stall converter in my C4.

When I line up to race, I hold a tiny red button on my shifter, labeled, "Trans Brake". This allows me to rev my motor up to 3,000RPM's without holding the brake pedal(the car won't roll while the trans brake is enguaged). when the light turns green, I release the red button and BOOM!!! I get a broken neck and the car launches HARD at 3,000RPM's instead of the 2,000RPM's like using your foot brake. Other cars have higher stalls and launch at even a higher RPM range.

Alot f people don't know how to build a tq.. the stall should be at the rpm were your arein mid ramp to peak torque you must chooose a prper str.. you wat lock up stall so thereis no slipage after 1rst.. ,, you want a shiftkit so you can enjoy manualy shifting and iits more positive than a clutch and proper gearng..

who say auto crossing belongs to the manual with the prper set up it dead even.. dragging its all auto.. and if winning isn't fun, not missing gears isn't fun , bogging or blowing offf the tires isn't fun then stick to you human erord manuals.. all fast dragger and amny auto scca car now use auto its superio.. and nohuan can outshift a computer with a shiftkit not even Mario

i laugh all three of my Gm s are auto's and people say aww its an auto too bad.. i say too bad for you .. i hit 1.5x in my Ws6 in the 60' everytim. everytime, i laugh at awd cars... they have no chance

Its usually frowned on to bring a thread back, that the last post was 9 months prior.

i prefer automatic alltough manual is more sportivice and in racing more fun:)

Originally posted by 94svt5.0
Its usually frowned on to bring a thread back, that the last post was 9 months prior.

I'm going out on a limb here and replying to this thread again even though I hadn't originally planned to. The direct words from 94svt5.0 say it all. If you want to be apart of a thread similar to this start a new one, there's no need to keep an old post current just for sake of it.

lIKE I SAID .. I FOUND ON A SEARCH OF THE wEB NOT fORUM.. SO I DIDNT REALLY LOOK AT THE DATE ..WAS JUST CURIOS WHAT PEOPLE THOUGHT OR THE OFFICIAL POINT OF VIEW... THE MODERATORS SHOULD OCK THREADS OVER 1 MONTH OR SO.. AND I BELEIVE ITS THEIR RESPOSIBILITY

in response to your fun factor .. you can hand shift an auto with a shiftkit.. and thats controll and alot of fun.. since i have a trango i know.. its the best of both worlds.. then when ia race is to happen.. you leave it in 3rd not od and watch out cause wining is more fun

I prefer Manual. It gives you more of a feel for the engine and the power it has.

No offence but do you know how many 450hp Viper i'vetoated from 0-60 then they just hang thier about 6-7 caars back... your Viper ( a Very Mean car , the only car meaner looking than a Ws6) would luanch perfect everytime and would.if you could imagine it be about .5-.7 faster if a god trany and a proper stal were put in... ike i've said ..with a shiftkit you have control you can hold your geear toany rpm.. dom=nshift intantly..and never , ever miss a gear or be slow in getting it into gear .. its..) for me) boom, boom, boom.. just like that.


mind you you i have a 99 Svt cobra and a 95 gts 5.0 and they are fun .. but i've missed.. struggled to get it in gear and blown many a launch even though i know very welll how to ( i'd better after 20 years) The Gm Ls1 with the 4l60e is the difinitive tranny for example use 7-8 out of 10 auto out acclerate ..thier 6 sped brother and the bleed more hp and have lower gearing.. 3.23 vs 3.42


well as long as yur happy if i had a viper ..i'd be happy. i wouldn't even race.. its like my Zr1 i seldom race it. its too mature.. unles i'm pushed by a Viper or other exotic then i'll do em
and the irony here is i had an auto transplanted into my Zr1
an Art Carr 4l80 e.. with costum planatary ratio's

Spyk,

Nice set of cars you have there. I totally agree with you in your posts. I just prefer a stick when road racing. It might be less effective, but it just seems a lot more fun:D

Try a no od auto 4sped with a shiftkit.. the good one ( transgo)
and you b surprised at how fun .. but i certanly respect you chioce like i sid i have 2 manuals myself ..and honestly they are fun and you 'feel" more in control.. but the ? arises are you?

you have a skyline.. sweet.. love them, what model... you just like my car because the spec v is known as the skylies baby brother...j/k

i love my spec v.. i'd buy another..since i colect.. but if you notice they aren't hig priced cars hel the Zr1 had mile on her i picked it up for low 20's
and its mint'' when we took the heads off the bottom end looked brand new.. this guy b4 me changed oil with amsol every 2500 miles it was driven hard but that ok asyou know aslng as proper maintenace is done cars driven hard are usually faster than babied cars with low miles..

take care and thanks

I use Amsoil as well, change filter every 2k, oil every 10k. Very good stuff.

Proper maintenance is the key:)

You can look at my auto tranny below. That is one of the most expensive bullit-proof AOD set-ups you can have. But the control and feel of the a stick will never be there. The fun factor will also never be there either. I wish I had taken the money spent on the auto and put in a Tremec.

Tremec TKO, based of the four speed toploader, hell yeah:D

I f your loking for the best tranny in its class Art is the man

he is a genious with them ad bulletproof.. my old 4l60e was god real god the 4l80e is like ajet vs a propeller plane


did he change your internal ratio's..???

Originally posted by GTStang
You can look at my auto tranny below. That is one of the most expensive bullit-proof AOD set-ups you can have. But the control and feel of the a stick will never be there. The fun factor will also never be there either. I wish I had taken the money spent on the auto and put in a Tremec.

So take it out, sell it to me, and go buy yourself a Tremec. :D

I f your loking for the best tranny in its class Art is the man
Actually I would go with a Lentech myself. Heard nothen but good things about them!

hIFLOW... YOU'D DO BETTER GETTING AN OLDER C4 MILES DON'T MATER ( SINCE HE'LL REBUILD ID IT0 SHIPIT TO HIMM .. AND DEPENDING ON YOUR HP YO MAY NOT NEED AS MUCH AS THE OTHER GUY AN WILL BE CHEAPER.. I WOULD NEVER TAKE OUT MY TRANNY AFTE HE BUILT IT A INSTALLED IT...

ALS ANOTHER MOVE WOULD BE TO GET A 99 WRECKED LIGHTNING TRANNY.. I BELEIVE THEY FIT FOR YOUR 5.0 THAT WOULD BE THECHEAPESST AND BEST WAY TO GO ...FOR THE MONEY

ALL FORD AUTO'S 5UCK.. EXCEPT THE LIGHTNINGS THAT WHY THEY HAUL BUTT WEIGHING LIKE 400LBS OR IS IT 5000LBS

OH YEAH THATS THE FORD EXAMPLE.. PUT A 6 SPED IN THE LIGHTNING AND YOU'D BLOW LAUNCHES , BOG , MISS GEARS , GRIND AND SO ON

Art Carr... Lentech they're all good. Few things though, anything with an OD is inherently weaker. So why would you want one? cuz when you got 4.10 rear gears like I do or even 3.73's and if you want to drive on a highway reasonably. A C4 3-speed isn't gonna work. Also I believe but could be wrong that Art Carr does not make full AOD trannies. When it comes to Ford AOD trannies... Lentech is the name.

If you have an automatic, then people are going to assume you arent an enthusiast...thats all. Its common knowledge that manuals give a person better control over the car. Of course, there are exceptions like cars that only come in auto, or cars that are too powerful for a manual.

gT YOU MIGHTBE RIGHT I KNOW aRTDOES GM MORE THANFORD... BUT WITH JUST THE TRANNY .. NO ENGINE ORK AND A STALL ..STILL STOCK GEAR NO SHIFKIT OR DR'S I DROPPED.6 IN THE 1/4 NOW YOU May say yeah well the 03 cobra with its t-56 can roock when the they did a same day same drver test on the Ws6 not the ss the WS6 fully loaded 02 stock as a bone automatic did constitant13.02 13 .5 13.01 and so on the one time best for the 03 c=Cobra was 12.85 and that was never repeated or lower

i get that alot oh your. Ws6 is an Auto hehehehe its more of a performance car than the manual.. its perception.. 4 banger setthe stage a 6's if you had an autoo4 or 6 you were lke 1.5 seconds slower..so the manual became the benchmark...in my boo wining a race eting mony is the most fun of alland i can handle better by not being distacted by the shifting .jmo

Originally posted by Fliquer
If you have an automatic, then people are going to assume you arent an enthusiast...thats all. Its common knowledge that manuals give a person better control over the car. Of course, there are exceptions like cars that only come in auto, or cars that are too powerful for a manual.

That is totally not true! If your an enthusiast then your an enthusiast, no matter what you drive. If someone thinks less of you cause you own an auto then they are not a real enthusiast!

A better control over the car, How so? I can shift my car just like a stick, have just as much fun, and can be a lot more consistent. I have a ton of control and can manipulate the tranny to shift exactly where I want it to.

Cars that are too powerful for a manual? LOL that's a good one. From what I have learned autos are a lot weaker, especially with OD. I'm not saying manuals are bulletproof, but they can definitely handle more power then an auto.

absolutely ..if amanual has to muchpower the clutch burns up it it an aut you have breakage of hard part

when they laugh my Ws6 has an auto .. i know i've hookeda sucker and thats when the bet come.'well its only an Auto..ya know their slower hehehe:)


no offense fird boy but if weren't for you i would have all the mods i do today...lol

In bone stock form from the factory 98% of the time the standard is going to be stronger. Once you start investing money into tranny rebuilds and high performance clutches, It just comes down to preference.

Automatics do not suck at all, I've seen quite a few cars pretty much decked out for drag racing, converted from manual to automatic. That's saying something. Maybe its because the way they are geared they would have to shift unhumanly quick. Honestly I don't know the reason I've never dealt with cars as powerful as the one's converted.

btw supposedly the new Firebird Trans Ams are faster in automatic then in manual at drag racing.

bac in200 pontiac enthusiasr mag did a rest were 10 Ws6 stock wer 1/4 miled half wer auto's the othr 6 speed 9 now emeber the 6 spee has 3.42 rear end while the uto's had 3.23rear the conclusion 8 of ten au so remarkable cosering lower gearing lesgear andthe auto were untouched,, no impovwmwnoc over the Factory won by at least .2

please take your time while typing. you have some valuable information that gives me a headach when i try to decipher it.

I don't know Gm's gearing but remember it's a combination of rear gears and gear ratios of the transmissions themselves. Also remember a stock stick is going to be limited by traction on equal tires. If a stock auto and stock stick both have Drag Slicks the stick is going to win. The ability to drop the clutch a 3grand isn't going to be matched without a torque convertor.
Also no matter what you want to say it can not be argued that more power is loss through an auto than a standard. This is a fact that is as old as cars.

Cars that are too powerful for a manual? LOL that's a good one. From what I have learned autos are a lot weaker, especially with OD. I'm not saying manuals are bulletproof, but they can definitely handle more power then an auto.

Its not about tranny strength, its about balancing clutch and traction. Its pretty hard to move a 500lb/ft car from a stop without either burning the clutch or the tires.

A better control over the car, How so? I can shift my car just like a stick, have just as much fun, and can be a lot more consistent. I have a ton of control and can manipulate the tranny to shift exactly where I want it to.

First of all, I dont remember any '89 stangs having tiptronic "manual shift" automatics (did they?). Second, 99% of automanual transmissions will upshift automatically when you take your foot off the pedal, even in manual mode. When im carving corners, I need my engine to stay in its powerband. I can have the tranny upshifting each time I take my foot off the gas for a turn. You simply dont have the same control as you would in a manual tranny.

PS: I think its understood that track/drag setup aftermarket auto trannys dont count.

good point

Originally posted by SkylineUSA
If you have a car that does a 10 sec 1/4 or better, an auto is the way to go.

Now for road course racing manual is the way to go.

If you have a girlfriend, I would want an auto:D

So Autos are not gay, but your better know how to drive a manual :p


thats so true man. good post.

Originally posted by Fliquer
Its not about tranny strength, its about balancing clutch and traction. Its pretty hard to move a 500lb/ft car from a stop without either burning the clutch or the tires.


Now that's a different story. Its not that the tranny can't handle the power, its the clutch that can't. Same thing can happen with the converter of an auto under loads of power. I've read more then once about a persons converter being ripped apart, and not on drag cars. I'm saying stock for stock manuals are stronger, and make more power cause auto's eat up the power.

[B]First of all, I don't remember any '89 stangs having tiptronic "manual shift" automatics (did they?). Second, 99% of automanual transmissions will upshift automatically when you take your foot off the pedal, even in manual mode. [B/]

No, they didn't have tiptronic trannys. There are ways to make the auto hold each gear without upshifting on its own. So in reality it can be driven just like a standard, but without the clutch work. So if I want to stay in my powerband I can hold the gear I need to keep the desired RPM. This can be done on a lot of auto's, not only at the track on tricked out trannys.

I'm just trying to play devils advocate here, and bring up points that are being over looked from different angles.

Originally posted by Spyk
absolutely ..if amanual has to muchpower the clutch burns up it it an aut you have breakage of hard part

when they laugh my Ws6 has an auto .. i know i've hookeda sucker and thats when the bet come.'well its only an Auto..ya know their slower hehehe:)


no offense fird boy but if weren't for you i would have all the mods i do today...lol

HU? What are you trying to say?

Originally posted by BigDanTheMan please take your time while typing. you have some valuable information that gives me a headach when i try to decipher it.

Ah yes, that says it all! LOL

Glad you added the last part cause with the shiftkit i'll bounce off the limiter if i have to while "carving a mountain road"

From our own board site(motortrend) Srt4 14.3at a cost out the doorfof23k

the Spec v NA out the door at 17.6k and what litle mods it takes to drop the car wich has oficially done 15.1 stock..just get it to breathe like i did and guess who is hellal you need is the Japanese Nismo chip worth 40 whp &
thats abot lesthan 1500 i/h/e

and the shitty Srt4istoast..i have different mods puting me at mid 14'sthat cosrt far lesssoitthe driver who winsremebersynergty of Car and driver the car doesn'twin when its close the driver wins
and much better quality

but withthe aforemetioned mods the Srt4 is toast for far less
hahahaa

Srt4iscshit compared to the stickered 16kSpecv..

as you were saying

and most of my mods were free mods or extremely trivialin cost..you youngins don't know jack
i'mlaughing atthe inferior intelect

we "younguns" are the future, we know how to type.

and the shitty Srt4istoast..i have different mods puting me at mid 14'sthat cosrt far lesssoitthe driver who winsremebersynergty of Car and driver the car doesn'twin when its close the driver wins

but withthe aforemetioned mods the Srt4 is toast for far less
hahahaa

Srt4iscshit compared to the stickered 16kSpecv..

I think the jist of what your saying is the Spec V is better than the SRT4? Dude, the neon runs 14.2 in the quarter STOCK! It retails for less than 20k. Add a boost controller, injectors, and maybe sparkplugs and youve got a mid to high 13 second sedan for the same cost as a V8 fbod. And a nismo chip is NOT going to net you 40 more wheel horsepower in a stock Spec V, thats just ridiculous.

A neon what runs 14.2?

WOW, when did this turn into the new Neon forum???

I thought I'd chime in on this with my 02, some people get autos for different reasons, not that they can't drive one or don't prefer a manual, an auto just makes more sense, for instance:

My wife drives my car from time to time and she can't drive a stick so I have to have an auto, also there are some things that I can do in normal city traffic that most manual driver's can't, like dial on my cellular.

So you see whoever made the statement that it's just a guy thing is just full of themselves and all that macho bravado really doesn't mean jack, it doesn't make you any less of a man or driver because you drive an auto.

you youngins don't know jack
We already have our redneck of the forums thank you, we don't need another.

no one should drive while using a cell phone and girls shouldn't drive at all. My pet peeve: girl on cell phone in suv.

there are exceptions to my girls on the road philosophy - I've seen some girls drive better then 80% of the guys i know, but i feel comfortable with that general, blanket statement.

Originally posted by BigDanTheMan
no one should drive while using a cell phone and girls shouldn't drive at all. My pet peeve: girl on cell phone in suv.

And note that the SUV never has any dirt on it ... thats the worst. People who buy cars that serve a specific purpose and never use em.

Have you seen that lifted silverado with the escalade front end around town? That guy refuses to take it off road cause hes afraid the paint will get scratched :rolleyes: Personally I think that thing is lifted too high, I stood next to it (being 6' 6") and I am eye level with the hood.

6' 6" and only eye level with the hood, That's alittle too high to believe.

well is is 6.6 at least, so that's true - and there are some dumb ass rich people in our town. I'll buy melt's story.

The current Ford AOD-E in the Mustang GTs just suck.

For a mustang, get a 5speed.

If you can afford it, get a 6.

:D

Originally posted by Los
The current Ford AOD-E in the Mustang GTs just suck.

For a mustang, get a 5speed.

If you can afford it, get a 6.

:D

Woooo, hold the phone! The AOD-E in all respects is a lot better the AOD and previous auto trans in the mustang. It has many features that the AOD was lacking. Just like any tranny they have their ups and downs, but you can't just say this one just plain sucks?

IMO, it doesn't matter how well or better the AOD-E is over the AOD. Compared to a 5 speed GT, it might as well be an AOD.

:o