I'd rather go with the stronger trans available, then work with what I got. Autos, you can build boost on a launch, and launch pretty good and consistant. manuals can be so much more simpler, in some situations (and remember simplicity is key :P), but I love having a t5 (man.) in my stang over the c6 (auto), because of the simplicity, weight and all, Granted I could no longer launch off lots of boost but could make up for it with a nice 2 step.

I think Trucks that doing a lot of towing (loads bigger than they should), should be using a 5 speed, I know it helps out for me. although auto makes things a little more convienient. also depends on if your E-Brake works good or not :P and if its a front wheel drive car and its purposes, I dont think one can judge them all the same. to each care there own for there own purposes.

Last Week I must drive my MT over 120Miles with a broken Clutch cable. I think AT is not so bad! :naughty:

Manual trans. by far. I'll never own an automatic sports car in my life. Auto is good for trucks or luxury cars but not for sport coupes/sedans. I love shifting gears, never get tired of it. ;)

i think jay leno said it best:
having an automatic gearbox is like having a mistress who can cook.

I'm a lazy driver i perfer Auto's lol i guess that is why my lude is my everday car and my Skyline isn't lol as that's mannual!
In an auto you can't really embarrase yourself, but in a mannual you can, by ahhh hitting the side of the gear, or completely missing the gear all together lol (guilty on a couple of occassions lol)

oi. I rented a mazda 6 to go 1200 miles (there and back). I hated that thing, it was automatic, but you could barely control the speed. You either went 20, or 40, or 80, there was no inbetween. The only way to control it on the freeway was with cruise.

Depends. If I have to drive a car powered by a 4 cylinder engine, then I definitely want a stick shift; no doubt about it. Given a suffiiently torquey V6 or V8, I prefer an automatic.

Overall, I prefer a well designed 4 speed automatic for everyday driving. The good ones deliver just as good highway mileage (if not better), are maintenance-free (no clutch to replace), and upshift to 2nd when starting on snow and ice to help with traction (like starting off in 2nd gear with a stick shift does) and let you hold it in a gear. They also prevent you from shifting into the wrong gear and overreving your engine and you can keep both hands on the wheel in case things get dicey.

The best part is when I'm out with my wife, I can have a few drinks and she can drive me home without me having to teach her how to drive stick. :D

When I see a stang gt or camaro z28 or ws6 or anything like that in an automatic, it feels like my soul was stabbed with a rusty spork.

I have an integra non vtec because I'm a poor high school student, it's slow, but I love manual now and forever.

When I see a stang gt or camaro z28 or ws6 or anything like that in an automatic, it feels like my soul was stabbed with a rusty spork.

Most musclecars back in the day had automatics, simply because they were best for drag racing. An automatic musclecar with a $50 shift kit in the trans will out accellerate and be more consistant than a manual version. (especially the old manual trans with external shift linkages, sometimes called "mystery shifters" for not knowing what gear you were going to get when you shifted).

There's as much difference between a mildly modded automatic transmission in a musclecar and a stock automatic slushbox as there is between a new GTO and a stock Cavalier. They may look similar, but that's about it.

Most people say, "Driving a car with a manual transmission puts you in better control, yada yada yda, blah blah blah, ad infinitum"

All of you have an arguement as to why, but none of you can present any facts. Here is a fact. Driving an automatic actually gives you less tasks to perform and allows you to concentrate more on the act of driving and therefore have better control. One reason that driving schools use autos. Driving a stick will let you have better control of engine rpm and gear ratio which is useful in a racing environment. Unfortunately, most people don't know the difference between a double downshift and a double espresso so that line of reasoning just doesn't wash.

You have neither the resources nor proper documentation to prove that moving a shift lever somehow improves your ability to view and comprehend other drivers on the road.

Last I checked, your hand movements have very little to do with your visual comprehension. Your visual ability and comprehension skills effects what you do with your limbs, not the other way around.

Bottom line is that on the street there is no difference in "control."

A lot of people, almost all, have a very vague conception of what controlling a car really is. Just because you can get behind a car and drive a manual doesn't mean you're "in control". I've seen some of the worst drivers get behind the wheel of a manual car, drive it terribly, and yet according to most of your speculations they were somehow "in control." With a manual transmission you are indeed in control of something, however, you aren't anymore in control of the car than a person driving a car thats automatic. What you happen to be in control of is simply your transmissions gear at any given RPM.

Next, people will say that moving the lever once every 5-10 minutes makes them concentrate on the road more, and that if they coun't do that, they'd fall asleep. Lord knowls using the brakes, steering, using the throttle, etc can't keep them awake. But by God, move a short stick an inch and a half every few minutes and you're magically kept awake!

And if you can't move that lever an inch, nothing else in the car can ever be "fun," either.

Tell you what, take the clutch pedal out of a car and make it an automatic. See how much control you have driving down the road. I'd be willing to be that you could still corner, brake, stay in your lane, accellerate, and get where you were going.

Now, take the brake pedal out, or the steering wheel. See how far you get.

Moving the clutch pedal is a VERY small part of being in control. Ask anyone racing fast go karts that don't have shifters at all. Fun AND in control.

And until you can quantify that "funner" then you need to stop using it as a "fact." Do you run around going "oh, look, I SHIFTED! Look! I did it AGAIN!" I'd like you to ride with me on my commute in my 5 speed PT and point out how it made it "funner" to drive. Or ride with me in my Fiat 124 Spider and point out how the transmission had anything to do with why the car is fun. Or ride in my Range Rover or my old Jag and point out where I was not in control. And I wish you could ride in my 400 hp V8 RX7 autocross car with the mildly modded automatic and point out not only where it was slow, but where I had less control OR had less "fun."

Hmmm. I checked on my commute. Shifting took up a grand total of 2 out of 20 minutes.

Buy what you like. if that happens to be a manual trans, great. ALL the cars I've bought new have had manuals, and I've decided to go with a 5 speed manual in the custom '63 Comet I'm building. But don't use spurious lines of reasoning to justify it OR put down other choices.

Automatic.
Simply because I've yet to experiance a Manual.

Tiptronic - the best of both worlds

I prefer AT, because it allows both my hands to be free for more accurate steering and traction sensing through the steering column. If I'm driving hard through turns, I like the greater amount of steering control afforded by constantly having both my hands on the wheel.
Although, I have occasionally driven cars with a Tiptronic shifter, and it is nice to have the option to switch to manual, for control over the gears. To me, the best setup to have is the one which allows me the greatest amount of options so that I can adapt to any driving condition.

Most musclecars back in the day had automatics, simply because they were best for drag racing. An automatic musclecar with a $50 shift kit in the trans will out accellerate and be more consistant than a manual version. (especially the old manual trans with external shift linkages, sometimes called "mystery shifters" for not knowing what gear you were going to get when you shifted).

There's as much difference between a mildly modded automatic transmission in a musclecar and a stock automatic slushbox as there is between a new GTO and a stock Cavalier. They may look similar, but that's about it.

Most people say, "Driving a car with a manual transmission puts you in better control, yada yada yda, blah blah blah, ad infinitum"

All of you have an arguement as to why, but none of you can present any facts. Here is a fact. Driving an automatic actually gives you less tasks to perform and allows you to concentrate more on the act of driving and therefore have better control. One reason that driving schools use autos. Driving a stick will let you have better control of engine rpm and gear ratio which is useful in a racing environment. Unfortunately, most people don't know the difference between a double downshift and a double espresso so that line of reasoning just doesn't wash.

You have neither the resources nor proper documentation to prove that moving a shift lever somehow improves your ability to view and comprehend other drivers on the road.

Last I checked, your hand movements have very little to do with your visual comprehension. Your visual ability and comprehension skills effects what you do with your limbs, not the other way around.

Bottom line is that on the street there is no difference in "control."

A lot of people, almost all, have a very vague conception of what controlling a car really is. Just because you can get behind a car and drive a manual doesn't mean you're "in control". I've seen some of the worst drivers get behind the wheel of a manual car, drive it terribly, and yet according to most of your speculations they were somehow "in control." With a manual transmission you are indeed in control of something, however, you aren't anymore in control of the car than a person driving a car thats automatic. What you happen to be in control of is simply your transmissions gear at any given RPM.

Next, people will say that moving the lever once every 5-10 minutes makes them concentrate on the road more, and that if they coun't do that, they'd fall asleep. Lord knowls using the brakes, steering, using the throttle, etc can't keep them awake. But by God, move a short stick an inch and a half every few minutes and you're magically kept awake!

And if you can't move that lever an inch, nothing else in the car can ever be "fun," either.

Tell you what, take the clutch pedal out of a car and make it an automatic. See how much control you have driving down the road. I'd be willing to be that you could still corner, brake, stay in your lane, accellerate, and get where you were going.

Now, take the brake pedal out, or the steering wheel. See how far you get.

Moving the clutch pedal is a VERY small part of being in control. Ask anyone racing fast go karts that don't have shifters at all. Fun AND in control.

And until you can quantify that "funner" then you need to stop using it as a "fact." Do you run around going "oh, look, I SHIFTED! Look! I did it AGAIN!" I'd like you to ride with me on my commute in my 5 speed PT and point out how it made it "funner" to drive. Or ride with me in my Fiat 124 Spider and point out how the transmission had anything to do with why the car is fun. Or ride in my Range Rover or my old Jag and point out where I was not in control. And I wish you could ride in my 400 hp V8 RX7 autocross car with the mildly modded automatic and point out not only where it was slow, but where I had less control OR had less "fun."

Hmmm. I checked on my commute. Shifting took up a grand total of 2 out of 20 minutes.

Buy what you like. if that happens to be a manual trans, great. ALL the cars I've bought new have had manuals, and I've decided to go with a 5 speed manual in the custom '63 Comet I'm building. But don't use spurious lines of reasoning to justify it OR put down other choices.


that the Best explanation ive ever heard about a Automatic Verses a Manual.
im gonna save this and send it to my friends :)
Automatic for life :evillol: i love smokin people in my 90Corsica 3.1 Auto. love hearing that Honda shift behind me and look at his face at the next light. well that if he would even look at me after that :smokin:

ill never drive anything but a automatic. i tried a manual and it drives me nutts, i just wanna drive i dont liek shifting up and down and clutch in and out. if i was racing in nascar mybee when the only place your going is none stop fast but in the city i see no point.
i say it all in the driver. i race everyone but i never go more than 10 miles over speed limit but to that point i almost win every time. no need to go faster i like having my insurance being only 45 dollers a month. it all sounds liek online talk but ive got about 30 wins and 2 loss record lol. my car is almost done in the garage 1990 for thunderbird SC with 220 HP automatic, im sure nothin can touch me in that :P . its all in the driver it dont matter what you got if you cant drive it.
i would love to have someone put me ina race car on the track i can almost garantee wins but seems like everyone on the local track do Manuals. but yea. i see nothing special in Manuals. just a bunch of wasted timem shifting when you dont really need to be doing in the conditions we drive in. me go sleepy now...

Tiptronic - the best of both worlds

:1:

A MT gives you more controll and enjoyment when driving your car.

A MT gives you more controll and enjoyment when driving your car.

=Chris V]A lot of people, almost all, have a very vague conception of what controlling a car really is. Just because you can get behind a car and drive a manual doesn't mean you're "in control". I've seen some of the worst drivers get behind the wheel of a manual car, drive it terribly, and yet according to most of your speculations they were somehow "in control." With a manual transmission you are indeed in control of something, however, you aren't anymore in control of the car than a person driving a car thats automatic. What you happen to be in control of is simply your transmissions gear at any given RPM.

Tell me where I was not in control of this automatic equipped car:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/adesso/rex2.wmv

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/adesso/rex3.wmv

And point out where amnaul would have given me more control.

I prefer good manual trans cars, and all the cars I bought new have had manuals. But both of your statements are false as general, blanket statements.

^ Manual is better. I beleive it gives you more controll on turns, where you can keep a car in a gear at a high RPM so you have less gear transition time. I'm not saying autos are bad. A bad driver is a bad driver no matter what type of transmision you have (no arguements there). And I'm not bashing on autos, just stating my opinion on manuals.

^ Manual is better. I beleive it gives you more controll on turns, where you can keep a car in a gear at a high RPM so you have less gear transition time.

I did that with the automatic in those vids, above. So how again would a manual have given me more control?

Again, there may be fractionally more control over teh gear you are in or the slippage of the clutch in SOME situations. But 90% of controlling a car has nothing to do with the transmission. And most of what DOES involve using the transmission can be done as easily with an automatic, as I showed in those autocross runs, where I was in just as much control of teh car, it's placement, it's speed, it's turn in, it's braking, and how it went through the course (and by extention, how it goes down the road) as if it had a manual. In fact, that partiualr car HAD a manual trans in it for the first season I autocrossed it, when it still had the rotary in it.

So not only do I have a good idea of how the identically set up car works with both the rotary and V8, I have a good idea of how much control over the car I had with the identically suspended car in similar conditions with a manual and an automatic.

;)

As I mentioned before, here is a fact. Driving an automatic actually gives you less tasks to perform and allows you to concentrate more on the act of driving and therefore have better control over the car. Control over the car means getting it from point A to point B. One reason that driving schools use autos. Driving a stick will let you have slightly better control of engine rpm and gear ratio which can be useful in a racing environment, but not completely necessary. Unfortunately, most people don't know the difference between a double downshift and a double espresso so that line of reasoning just doesn't wash, as a reason for stating you have more control over a car driven on the street.

A good manual transmission feels good. So does a good automatic. A bad automatic feels like shit. So does a bad manual. Blanket statemens about either are nonfactual, and not even subjectively true. ;)

i drove semi's for a while back in the day, and when you got 27 gears to shift through all day, the last thing you wanna do is keep shifting all the way home, i go with auto, oddly enough though, i do usually manually shift my auto :p

and that reminds me of those fast and the furious movies, they show people shifting so often i thought the evo came with a peterbuilt transmission.

for me, the simplicity of a manual trans is best. i like four speeds 'cause im lazy like that.

I did that with the automatic in those vids, above. So how again would a manual have given me more control?

Because, unlike your automatic a manual doesn't have to go through an electronic committee to shift. In a manual you can go straight from fourth to second and keep the RPMs up all the while for a great exit speed. With an automatic you shift and then the computer sits there and thinks about whether it wants to let you do that or not and most of the time the answer is not. Also, even when it lets you the shift isn't always immediate.

Granted I know that you're going to say that you can fix an automatic to work how you want and blah blah blah. I don't want to have to fix the tranny to do what I want. My manual does that without any trickery. Oh, and you still have parasitic drain with an auto, so whatever. Also, 99.9% of automatics that come in cars are crap for performance, and you can't argue with me there.

I still stand by my opinion that automatics are for lazy people and manuals are for true enthusiasts.

my current is an auto because its a hand down from my father, but i much prefer a manual, unless its a truck/suv, high-class luxury (rolls royce-level, not benz's), and vans.

manual is just more fun, period. the only time i'd prefer an auto is when i'm stuck in rush hour traffic here in NYC. i'm dead tired from lack of sleep for morning commute, or dead tired from overtime on the evening commute. thank god my daily driver's an auto for that.

i drove semi's for a while back in the day, and when you got 27 gears to shift through all day, the last thing you wanna do is keep shifting all the way home, i go with auto, oddly enough though, i do usually manually shift my auto :p

and that reminds me of those fast and the furious movies, they show people shifting so often i thought the evo came with a peterbuilt transmission.

isnt it funny, they will be shifting every time the camera goes to them in F&F.

I'm not old enough to drive but to hell with it - AT because it seems easier

Because, unlike your automatic a manual doesn't have to go through an electronic committee to shift.

Neither did my automatic. I thought you knew more about cars than that! Electronic automatics didn't start happening until the '90s. Before that, they were hydraulic/mechanical. The AOD in my RX7, the C6 in my 429 Torino GT, and the TH400 in my '66 Chevelle 454 and Lemans 455 had zero electronics in them, STOCK. Until you learn that, and figure out what a shift kit does in one, you need to refrain from casting your opinions in stone. Seriously.

In a manual you can go straight from fourth to second and keep the RPMs up all the while for a great exit speed. With an automatic you shift and then the computer sits there and thinks about whether it wants to let you do that or not and most of the time the answer is not. Also, even when it lets you the shift isn't always immediate.

Sorry, didn't happen in the car I posted. No computer. Instant shifts that woudl bark teh tires up or down when under ful throtle.

Again, you really don't know what you're talking about.

Granted I know that you're going to say that you can fix an automatic to work how you want and blah blah blah. I don't want to have to fix the tranny to do what I want.

And yet you have no pronblem with changing your suspension for more performance, and changing your ENGINE and ALL it's internal components for more performance... you look at a car and see the potential in teh engine and suspension when modded, but an automatic can ONLY be how it is stock, huh? What a hypocrite. Oh, adding different cams, a turbo (or larger turbo), intercooler, different ECU, higher compression pistons, larger swaybars, shorter, stiffer springs, adjustible struts, stickier tires, and all is perfectly viable, but putting a shift kit in an automatic doesn't count.

Again, you really don't have a clue.


I still stand by my opinion that automatics are for lazy people and manuals are for true enthusiasts.

And I stand by my opinion that you're extremely mechanically ignorant. You really don't know what you're talking about, and what you DO know, you're huypocritical about.

Look Chris, you're taking what I'm saying far too seriously. Like I said, it is MY OPINION. I am not trying to say it is fact. I know that automatics didn't really have electronics until the 80s. However, you failed to quote me when I said that 99% of automatics on the road today do and I would have to buy more than a shift kit to make them do what I want them to do. Also, they aren't the strongest things out there either. I like modding my car but with most of today’s automatics it is just too much damn work to make one comparable to a manual.

Once again this is just MY OPINION and I stand by it.

since when were we comparing modified manual cars with unmodified automatic ones?

WOW people can never NOT argue can we. I prefer a manual because when I press the brakes while I enter a turn then press the accelerator I dont have any lag. ALSO I am into drifting, drifting is easier in an auto. Also I like to use engine braking downhill or exiting the interstate.plus, if you burn up a clutch, its like $120 if you burn up an automatic tranny, its like $2000.

I like Manuals, for a few reasons.

1. They last longer than automatics. My tranmission is 40 years old, still works like new.

2. They don't rob horsepower. Automatics use 20-40 horsepower (typically) to work.

3. You can get better fuel milage (if you want it.)

4. You can always be in control, you can shift when, and how you want exactly... no waiting for the electonics to kick it in and what-all.

5. Manual cars are just more fun. It gives you more to do than just press on the gas and wake up when you arrive. :p

i love my manual, and would feel crippled without it. when it comes to performance on an all around street car, manual is a must. however, i would prefer an automatic for daily driving. its simple, when im in traffic, driving somewhere with friends, trying to talk on the phone, or smoking a cigarette, shifting and start/stoping is a pain in the ass. i can do any of these things while driving an auto safely, but in my manual, i just run out of hands!

i love my manual, and would feel crippled without it. when it comes to performance on an all around street car, manual is a must. however, i would prefer an automatic for daily driving. its simple, when im in traffic, driving somewhere with friends, trying to talk on the phone, or smoking a cigarette, shifting and start/stoping is a pain in the ass. i can do any of these things while driving an auto safely, but in my manual, i just run out of hands!

That's because the KEY is to CONCENTRATE ON DRIVING. At least in a manual, you have no choice but to pay attention to what you're doing with the car. In an automatic, you can smoke and talk on the phone and such and forget you're even driving, and plow into something.

forgeting that im even driving is a little extreme. ive forgoten that i was smoking a cigarette though and gotten ash everywhere.

BTW is that your video in your sig? wtf is that song called!?

BTW is that your video in your sig? wtf is that song called!?
Yes, it is mine. Song is "Ruin" by Lamb of God. The small one at the end is "Diabolical" by Mindless Self Indulgence

Yes, it is mine. Song is "Ruin" by Lamb of God. The small one at the end is "Diabolical" by Mindless Self Indulgence

AHHH ruin is my new fav song. thankyou sir.