protective coatings for paint job


sharpeyes1
01-07-2005, 03:37 PM
Hello. I just bought a car and the dealer is offering me a package for $800 in which a protective coating is applied to the car paint job. Is this something that is really needed? If it is useful, is this something I can do myself, or have it done for a cheaper price at a third party source? Any suggestions is appreciated.

Barry

Markgase2000
01-08-2005, 12:26 PM
It depends on what driving conditions you are subjected to. If they are reffering to 3m clear rock gaurd you will be paying way to much. For 800 bucks you should at least get "paint sealant , leather/vinyl protectant , fabric protection , rust inhibitor , undercoat and the 3m clear rock guard. That is what detailers call a full Protection package and it is backed up with warranties and guarantees. If you have an experienced application specialist do this for you on the side the only thing you will be missing is the warranty and guarantee. 800 dollars for clear rock guard by itself is a rip off when I discussed how to charge 3m rock guard with a 3m rep they suggested 200-300 to charge a customer and also to make it cheaper through the full pro pack with all the warranties intact. Some 3rd party sources can make better deals but alot of body shops and detail shops wont back up a product as far as a car dealerships installer will.

sharpeyes1
01-08-2005, 11:03 PM
It depends on what driving conditions you are subjected to. If they are reffering to 3m clear rock gaurd you will be paying way to much. For 800 bucks you should at least get "paint sealant , leather/vinyl protectant , fabric protection , rust inhibitor , undercoat and the 3m clear rock guard. That is what detailers call a full Protection package and it is backed up with warranties and guarantees. If you have an experienced application specialist do this for you on the side the only thing you will be missing is the warranty and guarantee. 800 dollars for clear rock guard by itself is a rip off when I discussed how to charge 3m rock guard with a 3m rep they suggested 200-300 to charge a customer and also to make it cheaper through the full pro pack with all the warranties intact. Some 3rd party sources can make better deals but alot of body shops and detail shops wont back up a product as far as a car dealerships installer will.

Thanks for your info. It was very helpful.
Barry

Robb01
01-10-2005, 06:27 PM
You need to ask specically what will be done. Most dealerships try and sell you that package and all they will do is spray a protectant on the interior, and apply a sealant to the exterior. They are not concerned w/ quality or the appearance of your car. The sealant and protectant cost ~10 and the cost of the labor is minimal as well. It is one of the biggest ripoff's ever. If what they are doing is installing a clear bra then that is different and well worth the 800. Your paint should already be warrantied w/out their additional work anyways. I would take it to a detailer that i trusted and whose work i had viewed. There is no reason you should pay 800 for about 30 bucks worth of work. Hope this has helped.

sharpeyes1
01-13-2005, 11:29 AM
Thanks for the info.

The $800 job was just for the extra sealant and protectant. I have since talked to many other new car owners, car sales people, body shop owners, & detailers, and the universal opinion is: * DON'T GET IT -- IT IS A MONEY MAKER FOR THE DEALERSHIP! * Any wax job, repeated 2-3 times a year, will do the same job as the car sealant. You need the wax anyways, because despite what the ads say, the sealant will not keep the car shiny and will not stay on.

The dealership did offer me the 3m clear film protection in a straight swap. I've checked the different forums, and the product does seem to do what it claims to do. I also dropped into one of the shops that apply this, and it looks pretty good, although there is a visible seam from the edge of the film across the front of the hood (very slight). In one of the older cars, there was also a noticeable yellowing, although the store owner says that they have fixed the problem with the new 3m films. In the end, I think it is worth the slight deterioration in looks to protect the paint and lights of the car (I can always peel it off when I sell the car -- who knows, the prospective buyer may even appreciate the fact that I have it on the car). The price I was quoted for the deluxe package that includes light protection was over $1200, so overall, the dealership price was good (their warranty is also better). I know you can do it yourself for much less, but this is one instance where I think I will pay the extra money for someone else to do it. I hope this info helps others!

Markgase2000
01-14-2005, 09:20 AM
3m has warranties against the yellowing. My paint sealant will keep a car looking shiney for years if the paint is properly cared for. Even when the paint is getting improperly washed on a regular basis (heavy brush and detergents) it still shines. Also the UV inhibitors last forever unless you chemically remove them. Ive had arguements with many on this sealants capabillities but even though Im not endorsing it I still stand by it. If you go to my dealership and spend 800 bucks on a protection pack I am your warranty guy If theres a problem with it I can fix it however I feel like the Maytag repair man because it rarely ever happens. Its very important that there is no moisture on the surface when sealing paint other wise it would be a waste of time , so if you buy a car and 2 hours later you get it most likely they didnt put enough time into the package like rob said but if they do take time its usually worth it.

Anthony Orosco
01-14-2005, 10:50 PM
I am a certified Xpel installer (3M clear bra) and I get anywhere from $600 to $1200. We get that amount because we don't settle for a bad install.

The dealer may charge less because they may not have a qualified installer which may result in ghosting, air bubbles or excessive stretch marks, especially on darker colors.

It is worth getting some referrals and if the guy asking $1200 comes highly recommended then it is worth every penny. Also this is not something you can just take off with ease. It is very difficult to remove and you can run the risk of "popping" the paint. Once an edge is lifted though you can't stop and set it back down. You need to keep on lifting. I highly suggest you leave the removal to a qualified pro.

Anthony

Markgase2000
01-14-2005, 11:37 PM
Wow 1200 bucks is alot of money they didnt say anything about it costing that much. Is it full body coating?

Anthony Orosco
01-15-2005, 03:21 AM
A full install of Xpel consists of front bumper, hood (24 in kit) fenders, side views, headlamps and we throw in the door edges for free.

Now obviously a Porsche Turbo is going to cost more that a truck install. So the more difficult the install the higher the fee is. It takes about 4 to 8 hours, again depending on the degree of difficulty.

You can buy a kit yourself, pay about $140, install it yourself, then screw up a piece and then have to buy a whole new kit. Suddenly your into it for $300.

Anthony

Markgase2000
01-15-2005, 05:33 AM
Thanks Anthony thats alot more than they were offering here. They were gonna send me some samples in bulk sheets and let me cut it and install it. But I would much prefer access to kits (especially on porches or other nice cars) cus the more money the cars worth the less I want to change things at a drastic level. Well unless my boss insists I do it , but then its do or die basically. Thanks Anthony.

sharpeyes1
01-16-2005, 01:19 PM
Hi again. The shop I visited to look at the 3M film installation is actually the shop used by the dealership, and is called "Clear Armor". In fact, my car is taken to their shop where the car is cleaned and the film applied. Apparently, I am getting the "premium" kit which comes with front and rear bumper protection, as well as door handle well and door edge protection. In addition, I am also being provided with the "light" kit in which thicker 3m film is stuck on the headlights of the car to protect them. Finally, the dealership is also giving me a 5 year warranty as opposed to the shop's 4 year warranty. I'm not quite sure what the angle is, but this is one instance where I seem to be getting a better deal from the dealership than from going to a third party for something.

Markgase2000
01-16-2005, 01:28 PM
Maybe ask to see a car they have done before and make your call on that.

sharpeyes1
01-17-2005, 12:31 AM
Hi again. I did go to their shop to look at their handiwork, and it did look pretty good (see post #5). As it turns out, the receptionist at the BMW service desk tells me her husband is one of the certified installers at this shop, and she will see to it that I get him to do it for me as supposedly his handiwork is very good. So at this point, I pretty much am committed to getting it done through the dealership. I'll post my opinions of the results after the car gets treated this week.

Barry

Markgase2000
01-17-2005, 09:39 AM
I am a certified Xpel installer (3M clear bra) and I get anywhere from $600 to $1200. We get that amount because we don't settle for a bad install.

The dealer may charge less because they may not have a qualified installer which may result in ghosting, air bubbles or excessive stretch marks, especially on darker colors.

It is worth getting some referrals and if the guy asking $1200 comes highly recommended then it is worth every penny. Also this is not something you can just take off with ease. It is very difficult to remove and you can run the risk of "popping" the paint. Once an edge is lifted though you can't stop and set it back down. You need to keep on lifting. I highly suggest you leave the removal to a qualified pro.

Anthony
I had a question about certain types of applications , what if the car has a low quality paint finish , can this affect the adhesion of this product? I am asking because ever honda we have had traded in at our dealership has the clear rock guard and its always bubbly and and ghosting with edges comming off. I think the product is good quality I just got a feeling they either applied it over shipping wax or just didnt care when they applied it. What do you figure? After seeing that so frequently it kinda discourages me from learning to apply these products myself.

Anthony Orosco
01-24-2005, 12:22 AM
I had a question about certain types of applications , what if the car has a low quality paint finish , can this affect the adhesion of this product? I am asking because ever honda we have had traded in at our dealership has the clear rock guard and its always bubbly and and ghosting with edges comming off. I think the product is good quality I just got a feeling they either applied it over shipping wax or just didnt care when they applied it. What do you figure? After seeing that so frequently it kinda discourages me from learning to apply these products myself.

Low quality paint finish has no real effect BUT it can be a problem removing the film at some later date. It can "pop" the paint if removed.

Most guys get into this because of the good money one can make but they skip the learning curve required to do a professional job. Ghosting and "fingers" (material not laid down completly) are caused by a bad installer, not the product.

If one learns the craft, does it right, there is a big demand for that type of work.

Anthony

Markgase2000
02-20-2005, 03:46 PM
Low quality paint finish has no real effect BUT it can be a problem removing the film at some later date. It can "pop" the paint if removed.

Most guys get into this because of the good money one can make but they skip the learning curve required to do a professional job. Ghosting and "fingers" (material not laid down completly) are caused by a bad installer, not the product.

If one learns the craft, does it right, there is a big demand for that type of work.

Anthony
We may have started off on my wrong foot but this advice was a great reference for others who want info on these films. Im glad you didnt hold a grudge and still share your wisdom with me. Can you name off some low quality films that you consider "garbage" so we can avoid them?
I found xpel on a car at work that wasnt applied properly does the warranty still apply if the car had the film for a few years and was traded?

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