Codes 171 & 174 TSB # 03-16-1 update


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mavrik66
05-07-2008, 01:33 PM
I did this myself, I bought the kit off Ebay, $90, they are not OEM. I had a budget. It me me about 3 hrs. It was not very hard. While its apart. change your plugs too. I wish I'd thought about that

CanadianCrusher
05-07-2008, 06:19 PM
Great Info, thanks to all ! I am ordering the kit today.

I am also having an exesive amount of Oil coming out of the tailpipe
and assumed it was the rings until the CEL came on and I did some investigating.

Could the problem be bad enough that its the cause of this.

Thanks in advance for your responses!


:)

penguinix
05-16-2008, 10:31 AM
Everyone, I filed a complaint about this on NHTSA.GOV

If everyone that has this problem complains, then maybe they will force Ford to do a recall. It won't do any of us that have fixed it any good, but will help out future owners.

Also, here is a funny story. I was at a repair shop for another vehicle a month or so ago (emergency repair!!). I noticed a 2002 Windstar up on the rack and I overheard the manager talking to a customer on the phone saying they would need to clean the injectors and "check the O2 sensor". When he got off the phone, I asked him if it was about the Windstar. He said yes and I told him about this issue (and gave him the TSB codes). They went and looked it up and were amazed!!! I have since talked to several other owners who have paid TOO MUCH to get this fixed, so I know from personal experience it is widespread. I have made it a personal campaign of mine to inform everyone that I see that has one about what's going on... and let them know that Ford is refusing to help with this issue.
Penguinix

My complaint # is 10216496
and the NHTSA site

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/

mundy5
05-16-2008, 11:17 AM
penguinix,

i understand how you feel about this. i felt the same way about this when i first read this sticky post. but the reality of the matter is that b/c this does not directly affect the safety of the vehicle like fire, stalling, loss of steering, etc, they will not do a recall on this item. they also have the time factor on their side. most if not all of the issues come up after their bumper to bumper warranty which they will attribute to normal wear and tear.

so as much as i would want to join you in this fight, i am afraid it might be a very difficult argument to prove.

if your argument that the number of owners that have to do this repair is so high is valid, then a whole lot of other "design" flaws should be recalled such as the heater/blend door actuator that is made of plastic gears (unbelieveable). I would much rather prefer the metal wire design myself.

this would also work with alternators and other parts. i don't know of any car that has the original alternator after a certain # of years. they all fail eventually.

penguinix
05-16-2008, 01:56 PM
I agree with you mostly. However, in my case here is my argument. When it was doing this (before I fixed it), we could be sitting at a traffic light and it the RPM's would drop, then surge to the point that it would actually make the van buck and try to jump forward. If someone didn't have their foot on the brakes, that could be dangerous or cause an accident. I know you don't usually sit at a traffic light without using the brake, but to me it's a valid point... what if it did that while driving.

My second point is that I DID begin reporting this to my dealer while my van was still under warranty, and had taken it to them multiple times.. At the start i only had 27,000 miles on it. They wouldn't even look at it and apparently didn't bother to check TSB's. I discovered the real problem after the warranty had expired and they wouldn't fix it then.

I feel like I had a valid argument for them repairing it, but it was refused. So, thus my campaign.. safety issues or not.

Penguinix

bassjam
05-16-2008, 08:03 PM
Gitzy,

You should get your codes read.

The DPFE is on the intake on the front right of the engine. It has two rubber hoses that connect to the EGR inlet tube and an electrical harness with 3 conductors. It is a small box about 3 inches by 2 inches. It is either aluminum (old design) or black plastic (new design). It is held on by 2 hex head bolts
I have gotten at least 3 DPFE's from Advane Auto. They only last for about 1 to 3 months. Is there another problem with my van or should I get one from Ford? James

derffred
05-16-2008, 09:30 PM
Hmmm, I would be surprised if you keep getting faulty sensors.

I do not know if you have done this but there is a good chance that your EGR ports (under the upper intake cover, plastic plenum) are plugged with oily carbon crap.

The only way to clean them is to take off the plenum and use dental picks and a vacumm cleaner along with a cleaner to break up the carbon I used Seaform Creep spray can on mine it worked great! Also clean the port that goes from the EGR Valve to the intake (use a round wire brush for that)

Once you have it all back together put half of a can of Seafoam in the Brake booster hose into the intake while the van is running (you may need to increase the idle a little while having the hose off so it does not stall. after it is in the engine turn off the engine and let it sit for 15-20 min. start the van and rev to 2500 rpm until all of the white smoke is gone from the exhaust could be 1 minute maybe more and do not do it in your driveway you neighbours will hate you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ivYCV4x2z0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef3HNvxblxQ


hope that helps you.


Also I had another cause for getting 171 and 174 codes.....

I found out that a thin white hard plastic hose that was snapped was for the "Evaporative Emissions Control System" (EVAP) located between the intake plenum going to a unit atached to the firewall
in the Haynes book it states.....
Poor Idle, stalling and poor drivability can be caused by an inoperative vapor management valve, damaged canister,split or cracked hoses or hoses conected to the wrong ports So I think that was a major problem I had!

flewellen1
07-29-2008, 11:26 AM
Found a total fix for my 2001 Windstar CEL.

I SOLD THE VAN!!!!!!!!:p

kdinolfi
08-02-2008, 11:55 PM
What is the TSB # 03-16-1 and what problems does the windstar demonstrate if it had this?

Off_Timing
09-04-2008, 07:09 PM
Ok, so I did the TSB fix 2 days ago. The van's been used multiples times since.

I thought I read somewhere (here??) that the CEL will eventually turn off after the TSB fix is done...or am I mistaken?

I read the codes, and I'm still showing 171 and 174.

Should I just erase the codes?

It's a 2000 Windstar with a 3.8L engine, 101K kms.

Thanks.

derffred
09-04-2008, 07:21 PM
to be sure get the codes erased and drive the van about 3 or 4 trips, if it comes back on you still have a problem then, my guess would be a vacumm leak if you still have a problem

mundy5
09-04-2008, 08:11 PM
Off_Timing, I believe that once the codes are recorded, they do not erase on their own so your gut is correct. you need to have them cleared and wait a few days.

Off_Timing
09-04-2008, 08:42 PM
Thanks guys....I'll erase it and keep my fingers crossed.

pcitizen
09-04-2008, 08:48 PM
I have not seen codes clearing themselves. After performing the TSB I cleared the codes.

jcostilo
10-26-2008, 01:52 PM
I am looking for a detailed explanation of what is wrong with my van. My 2000 Ford Windstar 3.8L check engine light came on. Here are the codes P0401, P1400, P017, And P0174. I have seen the individual problems posted, but wanted to know if there could be one problem causing all codes.

derffred
10-26-2008, 03:43 PM
p401 and p400 are both to do with your egr valve
here describes the P400

Answer to P0400 EGR FLOW MALFUNCTION
P0400 EGR FLOW MALFUNCTION is a blockage code, not a compenent failure. What the computer is letting you know is that something is preventing the EGR valve from opening and closing. A sensor mounted just above or near the EGR valve checks pressure to veryify that the EGR valve is indeed doing it's job. When the EGR failes to do it's job, that's when P0400 code surfaces. The typical cause of this code is cracked vacuum hoses or clogged hoses and or components with nasty carbon buildup inside of them. Each and every vacuum line to the EGR system needs to be checked! Carbon clogging also occurs inside the throttle body where the maze of vacuum lines originate. The task of unclogging those holes on the throttle body can become tideous, but needs to be performed in order to open up the vacuum flow. Rarely does a component failue throw a P0400 code, but when it does, it's one of three things. 1) EGR valve diaphragm is cracked and leaking vacuum, 2) The EGR plenumn sensor has failed 3)The amount of voltage getting to the sensor is not enough with a certain window, and will throw a P0400 code.


the p171 &p174 say system too lean but is often caused by a vacumm leak

you may also have blocked egr ports (under the upperi intake) see previous posts in this thread

helmdoggie
10-27-2008, 10:06 AM
Alright I finally did the repair. I put new seals and the isolator bolts in, everything else looked ok. I went to the local ford dealer and bought the parts. They were about $84.00 all together. I want to thank everyone for their contributions to this thread. After reading through it a couple of times I felt like I had a good knowledge of the problem and knowing problems that popped up for other people. It was almost like I had done the fix before. I also used the lekemby website. For anyone that is thinking about doing this themselves, it is fairly easy. It looks far worse than it is. I numbered all of the wire harnesses and drew a picture of where all the vaccuum hoses went. (And by the way I still forgot to connect one, I found it after the test drive.)After you are past that it's pretty smooth sailing. I took the cowling off and it does give you a ton of space to work in. I used carb cleaner on a rag to clean the intake and mineral spirts on the plastic plenum. All in all it took me about 3 hours and that included lunch and a run to the parts store for a vacuum connector that I must have broke a couple of years ago when I replaced the power steering pump and mysteriously the heater/ac would only work in defrost. So acutally I fixed two things at once. My wife couldn't be happier. I was going to replace the plugs while I had the cowling off but after reading on this forum and looking at it I think its going to be easier to do from underneath the van. I guess my next fix is the front door lock. Thanks again to everyone.

BoogiesAdda
11-06-2008, 08:58 PM
$324 is what i paid

Tampabayer
12-23-2008, 09:17 PM
I have a 1998 Windstar ( 3.8L) and was getting those 2 codes PO171 and PO174 which turned out to be a small vacumn leak. Mine was right brfore my PCV valve. The rubber hose colapsed some and there was a little hole. It was constantly stalling out and running rough. After I replaced the 4 inch hose, I disconnected my battery so the PMC would be reset. Runs like a champ now.

jmjax13
12-29-2008, 05:43 PM
This forum has been very helpful! Awesome!

I thought I would let you all know that my local O'reilly auto parts has a kit for the isolator bolt and valve cover issue. It contains all gaskets, isolator bolts (green sleeved), valve cover and gasket...this kit has it all...It cost me $97.99 plus tax....I just thought I would through it out there.

Hope this helps!!!

garync1
12-31-2008, 11:52 AM
This forum has been very helpful! Awesome!

I thought I would let you all know that my local O'reilly auto parts has a kit for the isolator bolt and valve cover issue. It contains all gaskets, isolator bolts (green sleeved), valve cover and gasket...this kit has it all...It cost me $97.99 plus tax....I just thought I would through it out there.

Hope this helps!!!
I paid 87.00 I think for my bolts and port seals and another 150.00 for the upper intake cover.. So you got a good deal..

semcolil
01-01-2009, 08:59 PM
i went through a lot of crap for days on the 174-172 code...i finally took a fuel rail presure check found out my pressure was 21psi. min is 28. i changed the fuel pump and screen and never had the 174 172 code agin .the fuel system is not on the obd2 codes so i was getting a lean on bank 1 and bank 2 becaulse of low fuel pressure. i hope this info saves people more money and time than me. CHECK FUEL PRESSURE FIRST!!!1996 WINSTAR 3.8 AUTO

jmjax13
01-06-2009, 10:37 AM
This is the kit like I purchased

http://www.1aauto.com/1A/-/GMC/-/1AEVC00013/

joconnell
01-06-2009, 10:48 PM
I need advice on how to change the bearings or bushings on the front end.:banghead:

p15218
01-25-2009, 02:57 PM
I did the gasket bolt replacement about 2 years ago (2006) and last week the coolant pipe that runs over the intake manifold sprung a pin-hole leak. Apparently another common failure. Of course, the whole plenum has to be removed to change this part. If you're doing the ol' 171 / 174 fix on the plenum, you might want to consider replacing this #$&@* pipe. The pin-hole appears about 1" from where the pipe is connected to the intake manifold, facing foward, sprays towards the EGR valve.
Oh, and thanks again to the author of http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html as it came in handy again!
Bob

Brandynr
02-11-2009, 02:16 PM
Figured I'd throw my experience with this TSB in here. I, apparently, was very lucky.

I bought a '00 Windstar used from a dealership in Feb. of '08. When I bought it, the salesman told me that the CEL was on, and that it was reporting the O2 sensors as being bad. I agreed to replace those on my own, and he knocked some of the price off.

Prior to purchasing the parts, I did my homework and discovered that the TSB was the problem, not the O2 sensors. Went back to the dealership, and they covered the cost of it completely.

My only question is, they did not replace the valve cover. Is this something I should do at some point? It's been a year since I had the work done, and I do not know if the problem will occur again or not.

gasman1075
02-11-2009, 02:52 PM
Yes the valve cover needs to be replaced if you still have the old one
The valve cover is is a major part of the problem and you can tell if it has not been done with a visual inspection if you know what to look for check this web sight for the info,it has a ton of info on this TSB
http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html



Figured I'd throw my experience with this TSB in here. I, apparently, was very lucky.

I bought a '00 Windstar used from a dealership in Feb. of '08. When I bought it, the salesman told me that the CEL was on, and that it was reporting the O2 sensors as being bad. I agreed to replace those on my own, and he knocked some of the price off.

Prior to purchasing the parts, I did my homework and discovered that the TSB was the problem, not the O2 sensors. Went back to the dealership, and they covered the cost of it completely.

My only question is, they did not replace the valve cover. Is this something I should do at some point? It's been a year since I had the work done, and I do not know if the problem will occur again or not.

Brandynr
02-11-2009, 09:36 PM
Thanks. I'll have to get that done.

visface
02-17-2009, 06:50 PM
I did the TSB fix and also replaced a leaky bypass tube, disconnected the battery. Runs great no codes but now my info center says CHECK COMP. Anybody know what CHECK COMP Means ?

bulrid8
02-21-2009, 09:32 PM
I did the fix today. Not bad at all. Took about 2.5 hours to do. I bought the kit off ebay that came with all the parts, including valve cover. My EGR ports were clogged up completely.

Van runs like new again. Lets see if it stays that way!:banghead:

Freakzilla69
03-04-2009, 11:57 AM
to be sure get the codes erased and drive the van about 3 or 4 trips, if it comes back on you still have a problem then, my guess would be a vacumm leak if you still have a problem

When you make those 3 or 4 trips I hope your tag isn't expired for not passing emissions. The police seem to have no sympathy for DIY mechanics.

They say you can do the repairs yourself but you can't legally test drive it to see if the SEL comes back on.

BS

Freakzilla69
03-13-2009, 12:20 PM
I've replaced the entire emissions system and rebuilt the top of the engine from the block up.

It runs like a champ but I'm still getting 171 and 174. Oh well, at least I spent enough money on parts for the emissions waiver, $800. The IMRCs went a long way towards that total.

The only thing I know of that is wrong with it is no air comes out of the dasboard vents. Could that have anything to do with it?

Do I need to take it to the dealer to have it reprogrammed?

kingfishracin
03-16-2009, 06:13 PM
I am getting ready to tackle this thanks to all the great info on this site. I just got the parts estimate from my Ford dealer, $217.38. This price includes the coolant crossover tube. Do I need to get the parts from Ford or would after market be o.k. ?

bulrid8
03-17-2009, 03:11 AM
I am getting ready to tackle this thanks to all the great info on this site. I just got the parts estimate from my Ford dealer, $217.38. This price includes the coolant crossover tube. Do I need to get the parts from Ford or would after market be o.k. ?


I got my kit off ebay. Around $100 total. All top quality parts and includes new Valve cover.

I didn't replace the cross over tube, but you can buy that from the dealer for around $40.

Little update: Still running great and have not had a CEL, since the fix.

GaryYarber
03-18-2009, 04:20 AM
I have a 1996 Windstar 3.8 engine. The check engine light is on and the OBD2 meter shows trouble codes P0171 and P0174. A local garage did a diagnostics run down and told me the upper intake manifold gaskets ( between plenum and intake manifold) needed to be replaced. Which I did but I still have the trouble codes. Any ideas on what could be causing these codes. Also, does anyone know if the TSB#03-16-1 applies to the 1996 3.8 engine?

Mookie6250
07-23-2009, 12:51 AM
I have a 2001 ford windstar. Student of uti. Threw up DTC's of p0156 p0171 p0174. Ford Kept telling me that the p0156 (O2 Bank 2) could be making the lean codes pop up but that doesnt make sence considering that there are two lean banks and only one sensor code, which is a circuit fault. Apon looking into this a little more i see people talking about TSB's for the 171 and 174. Is this most common problem setting off codes? What years does this TSB cover? Anyone have a link for the TSB? Help is very much appreciated!

stryder1
07-24-2009, 11:12 AM
If you look a this article at the bottom of it are links to the actual TSB's. I was getting these codes about a year ago with a 2000 Windstar and since I followed the article and replaced the parts, I have not gotten the code since (knock wood).

http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html

bdahl385
07-27-2009, 04:28 PM
I have a 2001 ford windstar. Student of uti. Threw up DTC's of p0156 p0171 p0174. Ford Kept telling me that the p0156 (O2 Bank 2) could be making the lean codes pop up but that doesnt make sence considering that there are two lean banks and only one sensor code, which is a circuit fault. Apon looking into this a little more i see people talking about TSB's for the 171 and 174. Is this most common problem setting off codes? What years does this TSB cover? Anyone have a link for the TSB? Help is very much appreciated!

I would be very leery of any Ford service shop that doesn't automatically know the 0171 / 0174 DTC history on this vehicle. I would care to bet that every 1999-2003 vehicle will eventually need the new isolator bolts to fix this DTC, it should have been a recall but it wasn't because it is not safety related.

Top_Notch
08-01-2009, 09:37 PM
8-1-2009

I just completed this procedure on my 2000 Windstar with 95k miles. I've had the CEL on for the last 2 years and the car ran fine except for the transition between closed and open loop when it was cold. It would buck, stutter, and hesitate, then run fine the rest of the trip. The last straw was that the coolant pipe from the lower manifold sprung a pinhole leak and the leaky intake caused the motor to start ingesting coolant. So, since I had to pull the intake anway, mine as well fix everything at once. I ended up doing the plugs, wires, IMRC clips, rocker cover, coolant tube, EGR port cleaning, intake port bolts, and gaskets.

The hardest part of this job was rounding up the parts. Seriously! I ended up making multiple parts runs to save some money. Sure, one could get everything at the Ford dealer, but then again one could just drop the van off and pay a huge bill to have everything fixed.

I first started by trying to find the isolator bolt kit at Murrays/Kragen as suggest by another in this thread, but they had no idea what I was talking about. I suppose I could have purchased other parts there as well, but I was too miffed.

I ended up buying the isolator kit from Rock Auto ( http://www.1aauto.com/1A/-/GMC/-/1AEVC00013/ ). Note that Summit Racing also carries the kit Rock Auto sells at a lower price. ( http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RNB-615-177?part=RNB-615-177&view=16383&N=700+115 ) I also made a trip to the Ford Dealer to pick up IMRC clips (got bent over on those at $6.50 each) and the coolant bypass hose. I then decided I should do plugs and wires while I was at it, so I stopped at Autozone to pick up the double platinum Autolites (as my research suggested) and a set of plug wires the next day. One final trip was made to Walmart for engine degreaser, towels, coolant, dielectric grease, anti-seize for the plugs, and carb cleaner. All in all, I was in for about a little over $200 worth of parts.

The actual job was surprisingly easy although it took me a long time. I was only able to work on the van after work for an hour or two at a time due to my schedule. Nontheless, I had everything done in less than two weeks. I did remove the cowl, which makes access a breeze, including to the rear plugs. I ended up having to scrape the intake to remove hard sludge (The ports had hardened oil on them), oil (everywhere), antifreeze, and dirt from the manifold. This took me at least 2 hours alone. (I am meticulous and had everything spotlessly clean before continuing)

One note on the Rock Auto parts kit is that the parts are made in China but everything worked fine. The only issue I had was the studs to hold the wire keepers were too large to fit the clip. I ended up routing the plug wires the best I could so that they would be secure. Even though I have a decent collection of tools, the job itself is surprisingly easy and only required the most basic of hand tools. I did use an engine scanner for initial diagnosis and to verify the engine codes, but you can get that done for free at Autozone. I will note that since I worked on the van over a 2 week period, I was always spraying bolts with penetrant before I took them out the following day.

My advice to anyone reading is that this job can be done by any semi-competent back yard mechanic. I would advise you to replace the coolant tube if it has some time/mileage on it just as a safeguard. The Rock Auto kit came complete with gaskets, valve cover, Fuel Pressure vacuum hose, new PCV and PCV hose. The kit had more gaskets than I needed. I torqued all the bolts "by feel" as my torque wrench doesn't go to 7-12 ft/lbs. Just snug everything up and you'll be fine. I did follow the proper sequences though.

No more CEL and the van runs great.

To save everyone some time, here are some part numbers you may need:
XF2Z 8548 AA Tube assembly (coolant hose) ($59.44 )
F5RZ 9F955 AB IMRC bushing ($6.65/each)

Note that I did read that Kragen/Murrays may sell the IMRC bushings in a bulk pack for much less than Ford does. (I lost the Murrays part number, sorry.) I ended up not checking Kragen/Murrays for the clips as the store is out of my way, but if you are doing the IMRC clips (my IMRC rod was laying on the intake so it needed some clips!), I'd suggest to stop anywhere else first before going to the dealer. Just my .02

Thanks to those who contributed to this thread!

rmestep
09-04-2009, 09:33 PM
for the repair kit go to advance or autozone, both have it for $98 !
It comes with all gaskets and bolts for the entire tsb repair. Just ask for a dorman valve cover repair kit with a part number 615-177. It also includes pcv valve and hose, and the fuel pressure regulator vacuum line. It is way cheaper and easier then asking for individual parts!!
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/catalog/parts/partsShelf.jsp?displayName=Valve+Cover+Repair+Kit&currentPage=1&categoryDisplayName=External+Engine&navValue=15302519&itemId=2519-0&parentId=53-0

Hopefully that will work

bassboy
09-05-2009, 01:04 AM
I would just like to say a BIG thank you to all who have given such informative information regarding this matter of the 171 & 174 codes.
After getting a quote of .....(wait for it)......$2000 to perform the opperation on my 2002 windstar from Express oil, I, armed with my $97.99 am heading out to Autozone in the morning.
After reading the encouraging threads and the fab http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html fromPcitizen.
I'm quite looking forward to getting my hands dirty for a saving of $1900.
Weather permitting, it'll be spanners at dawn (sat)
I will let you know how it turns out.
Be gone pesky light.:smokin:
P.S delay in starting , got the run around by the auto shop which ended up with me not getting the kit untill now (sunday) but they sold it to me for $84.99 which was a price I found on line. Oh well, I'll just have to wait till the missus is off work to look after the little one.

PJM361
09-05-2009, 02:03 AM
I'm in the middle of doing this repair because I had to replace the power steering pump. So I had the cowl off I thought I might as well finally fix the problem. I've been clearing the codes & then driving around for 20 minutes before getting an inspection and it's past for the last 2 years. My van was running bad when these codes first came up but, it turn out to be a dirty Idle air control valve. Thanks to pcitizen for that great website. He mention the new valve cover doesn't have the little hole, is that the only difference? Can I just plug up that hole? Does anyone have pictures comparing the inside of the 2 valve covers? Thanks for all the help.
EDIT I just found this website hope it helps others.
http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/pcv_filter.htm

Freakzilla69
10-08-2009, 01:28 PM
I've been clearing the codes & then driving around for 20 minutes before getting an inspection and it's past for the last 2 years.

What year is your van and what state is the inspection for? I hope this works for me.

PJM361
10-08-2009, 03:54 PM
What year is your van and what state is the inspection for? I hope this works for me. 2000 & NY
As a warning for anyone with a Windstar keep an eye on your rear axle, ours cracked 3/4. Very dangerous if it separates all the way. I searched on the internet and it's not uncommon. But of course Ford won't do a recall so I had to pay to get it welded.

ghstface2412
10-09-2009, 11:05 AM
Wow I have a 98 windstar..and I have been having the stalling and popping when accelerate after stopping at a light along with a blinking cel....codes 171 along with 402 came up..I found this site and it's awesome!...all you guys are great..I changed the egr sensor..spark plugs wires..booster hose...valve covers..before finding this site...getting started today to do what you recommended..I will show my wife I can make that cel light turn off..( its been on a year) once and for ALL! Thanks to everyone who helped with this forum.

Black_Blade
10-27-2009, 06:46 AM
Finally got around to affording to do this repair to my 2002, in the last few months it began to run really rough at stop lights and also when the weather was damp (which unfortunately was most of the summer). So, I was thinking that the spark plug wires to be the culprit, but since I have had this SEL with the 171 & 174 codes, I thought to deal with this issue first and thus eliminate that as the possible cause of the the rough engine.

Well, got the SEL issue taken care of...and a thousand thank you's to pccitizen for his wonderful site dealing with this repair! It took me a bit over 5 hours to do it, in my parking slot. Lost some time in trips back and forth to basement for the odd tool--and rummaging thru stuff to find them (moved in to townhouse in June, but still have plenty of my stuff in cardboard boxes in basement) Also did an overdue oil change at same time...lol.

Now I see the rough engine is still present, so will have to look into new plugs and wires. The engine runs fine in dry weather, not that there is many days like that of course....:headshake

Nox
11-20-2009, 03:41 PM
This Thread must be the most viewed in the web....It even has links from other forums sites. Great information and thank you pcitizen!. I will be taking on this project very soon after I get through all of the posts. some times, the followup posts can be very valuable. Wish me luck!

veerg
11-21-2009, 07:45 AM
Good luck Nox. I did this in Nov 2007. No codes since then. My experience was limited to changing oil, brake pads, a steering pump and a water pump on my chev Lumina. I read all the posts and took on this challenge with the pcitizen procedure at hand. Just take your time. I had two problems. I gave up on removing the cowl. The other was the throttle cable. The way it is hooked. When you take it off, just make sure you see how it is hooked first. When hooking it back, it can take 10 secs if you know it or 15 mins if you have to fiddle around..........good luck again. By the way. I used the $79 kit bought on line. So far it is good.

Nox
12-04-2009, 06:26 PM
I have a serious question for all who have partaken in this Holy Thread. I am planning to do this job( upper intake isolator bolts- Codes 171 & 174 TSB # 03-16-1), BUT, I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO KNOW, should I just plan to do the lower manifold gasket change at the same time that I do this upper intake job? It seems like just a little further down the rabbit hole gets me down to the intake gasket....bottom line, I only want to do this once. I know there is a serious case of thread exhaustion here, but for those of you who have done this job, way, way ahead of me, I would like to know you opinion. By the way, I have 160K on my 2000 SEL, so just sayin.....and thinkin, if Im going to do some surgery, I may want to go just a little deeper.

Thanks,
Nox

Top_Notch
12-16-2009, 04:45 PM
I have a serious question for all who have partaken in this Holy Thread. I am planning to do this job( upper intake isolator bolts- Codes 171 & 174 TSB # 03-16-1), BUT, I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO KNOW, should I just plan to do the lower manifold gasket change at the same time that I do this upper intake job? It seems like just a little further down the rabbit hole gets me down to the intake gasket....bottom line, I only want to do this once. I know there is a serious case of thread exhaustion here, but for those of you who have done this job, way, way ahead of me, I would like to know you opinion. By the way, I have 160K on my 2000 SEL, so just sayin.....and thinkin, if Im going to do some surgery, I may want to go just a little deeper.

Thanks,
Nox

Nox from CFOT?

Either way, the lower intake is aluminum and isn't the issue. (Once you pull the upper you'll understand what's going on) I'd plan on pulling the upper only and replacing the coolant bypass on the lower intake. If the plugs are original...now is the time as well.

mikemikemike
12-16-2009, 06:52 PM
Hi, did the repair 3/29/2007: 2 3/4 years ago and still working fine with no lights. Check out my original email below! Just changing the 8 bolts and it worked fine. Mike in NH

I used the most excellent web site (http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html (http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html)) to fix my 2001 Windstar. I got the parts from the Ford Dealer. Started to take apart the engine, got to the throttle cable part and then got scared - no way I was gonna mess with those. I couldn't get to the gaskets under everything.

So, I ONLY replaced the 8 bolts with their green sleeves and then put everything back together. Didn't change any of the gaskets - didn't use a torque wrench, either. Been 2000 miles and no communistic check engine light has come on yet !

I found taking the plenum thing off wasn't that hard. Just slightly pushed up on the cowling with a long broom stick (used front of radiator as a fulcrum) with my left leg while I lifted the plenum up and rotated it clockwise.

mikpel@hotmail.com NH

1320mustangracer
02-26-2010, 02:31 PM
I am fighting the P0171 and p0174 light too. I used to do ford warranty a few years back and we had alot of these claims come across my desk. Something alot of you are not mentioning is when replacing the DPFE sensor you need to replace the hoses it hooks up to also. And there is another TSB associated with these codes too TSB 04-17-04 which has you chasing vac leaks by crimping off hoses. A very long process. Once I figure mine out I will let you all know. If any of you have done the TSB 03-16-01 you need to make sure you decarbonize ports, check and clean EGR valve, PCV valve and hoses which can cause carbon problems with MAF, TPS. SO as long as your there clean everything up with a good electronics cleaner. Also good time to check and replace air and fuel filters if necessary. These codes are for System too Lean. which if you think you dont have a vacuum leak then check fuel psi, fuel filter, fuel pump, injectors . I say this because of a few of you stating you had misfires, rough idle.

1320mustangracer
02-27-2010, 05:54 PM
Its an after warranty adjustment called a " PO5" in which a customer pays 20% of the bill and dealership pays the other 80%. There are rules set by FORD though. Has to be orig owner and vehicle has to have less than 75,000 on vehicle. Another program is " PO7" in which customer pays 495.00 of the bill. With this it has to be a powertrain issue and orig owner again, but mileage is up to 100,000 miles. With this PO7 program you get a 3/36 warranty on powertrain component replaced. Hope this helps

mateo71859
04-10-2010, 10:19 PM
i have a 174 but diagnotics says trimbank 2 is running lean what does this mean and how do i fix this

pcitizen
04-11-2010, 06:43 AM
Mateo71859,

It appears your vehicle has succombed to the same problem as many others. The intake manifold is leaking due to cruddy bolt seals. Apparently the OEM seals fail when exposed to oil/gasoline. Ford makes a kit for Codes 171 & 174 TSB # 03-16-1. You can read many posts about it on this forum. If you chose check out this URL for a step by step DIY to fix this problem once you have parts in hand: http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html.

PCitizen

mateo71859
04-11-2010, 01:16 PM
for this isolator problem there was some mention of an isolator kit that come with everything you need for about 99 dollars where can i find these kits and or ist there a specific name listed for these kits so i know what to ask for

mateo71859
04-11-2010, 01:18 PM
i also would like to know what does tsb stand for and how do i find it

pcitizen
04-11-2010, 06:53 PM
TSB = Technical Service Bulletin.

The repair kit will have all the parts you need to make the immediate repair. The web site I provided earlier discuss other parts you may wish to consider.

Go to any Ford Dealer with a parts department and ask them for kit that repairs parts discussed in TSB 03-16-1. If that doesn't work ask them about the isolator bolt kit for Windstars. This is a common problem so they should know what you're talking about.

mateo71859
04-12-2010, 05:18 AM
engine running rough now and i was told it might be the o2 sensor before the converter so i disconnected it and there were no difference in the running of the engine.

mateo71859
04-12-2010, 05:18 AM
what does this mean

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