Codes 171 & 174 TSB # 03-16-1 update

I would think the misfire would not cause these codes. These codes are for too lean, meaning the 02 sensor sees too much air. I would think a misfire would go the other way.
There are a number of components that can contribute to a lean condition. I have a 99 and I never resolved the issue, even by performing the required bolt fix.
You should have a metal upper intake on your engine, I am not sure I would call it a plenum. Regardless, you should not have the bolt issue on your vehicle. The bolt issue is due to isolators needed to bolt the cheesy plastic intake on the metal lower portion.

Thanks for the response. I will change the spark plug and see if these codes go away by chance and some luck but I doubt it. I recently changed my PCV valve to the metal one that comes in the kit. Should I change it back to the plastic original one? Everybody on here is saying that I wouldn't have to do the bolt change for the 98. I have a big black plastic looking thing on the top of the engin is this the intake maifold or a cover to the maifold I will try to find a pic and post. Thanks again everyone!!!:runaround:

About 3 weeks ago I performed the work to clean the EGR ports in the manifold and cleared my misfire problem and cleared the codes too. I didn't replace the isolator bolts even though I know I should have. Financial constraints got in the way of that. About a week later the CEL came on and gave the 171-4 codes. One shows as a "Pending" code on my reader and the "Freeze Frame" data makes it look as if this happened at a stop since the RPM was low and the vehicle speed was zero. I haven't yet done anything as I am waiting to see if any other codes come up. Hopefully, the repairs mentioned in this thread will cure the problem but will have to wait until more money is available and perhaps nicer weather. (November weather is now here in Detroit after a long warm spell). The work I did was quite easy and I didn't even remove the cowling. I still wonder if anyone knows if the aftermarket parts are really OK to use for the lower plenum and valve cover replacement. $8.00 or more just for isolator bolts sounds steep to me.

Phil

Hi. I am having the same problem with my 1999 Winstar and I am going to attempt this repair. :eek: I live in southern Ontario and I was wondering where is the best price for the parts needed? Has anyone used these kits that are available online?

http://www.1aauto.com/1A/IntakeManifolds/Ford/Windstar/1AEVC00013/

Are they any good?

OK. Just got back from pricing the parts at 3 Ford dealers. All of their prices were the same. Two of them never heard of a INTAKE CENTER SECTION but the third did. He called it a spacer # CM*5053*. I had a look at it and as you said OilHammer it has all the seals you need and more. It has the port seals, upper intake gasket and isolater bolts. The only thing I need to get extra is the valve cover itself and the vacuum lne if I think I need it.

So here are the prices:

SPACER (or INTAKE CENTER SECTION) $290.18
VALVE COVER $121.08
VACUUM HOSE $ 38.88
TAXES $ 63.02
TOTAL $513.16


So anyone work at a Ford dealership and get a discount? I wonder what the prices are in the states?

Thanks

Found this forum & am thankful for all the great info.
2000 Windstar with light on, Had the tsb done by a ford dealer two years ago to get an inspection sticker in MA. Got the sticker & a week later light came back on & has been on ever since( Emmisions test are every other year & time is up) Just wondering if the tsb work should be redone?
I replace the pvc valve & have tried to check for vac leaks but have found none.Cleaned the maf.
Any advice

I bought the parts from 1aauto.com ,as the link above, for $79+shipping. This was back in March 2007. I have 2000 Windstar with 54K miles. The first time I had CEL was two yrs ago at 40K. I reset them and they came back last year again just before the inspection. I reset the codes then and they did not come back. So I never got around to do the repair. In the last couple of weeks the codes now come back after a couple of days of resetting. It's funny they always come back as soon it is a little cold in NC around Nov. So this weekend I did the repair.
(http://www.1aauto.com/1A/IntakeManifolds/Ford/Windstar/1AEVC00013/)
The kit included, bolts with green rubber, all the gaskets, pipes and the valve cover. The gaskets looked exactly like the ones were in before. My old Valve cover had the hole in it at the 5 O'clock position. The new one did not.
Any way, have only driven the van about 100 miles. No CEL yet. The van runs very smooth. Pinging noise we were accostomed to has gone too.
Very pleased with myself doing it and cost only $79. This was a first job of this scope for me. Previous experience was limited to changing Oil and Brake Pads.
As for the cowling, I removed the wipers and the black plastic. Then for the lower metal part, removed all the screws on the top and the one bigger one underneath. I could move it up by an inch but could not figure out how to separate it..must be the wiper motor...Proceeded with the job. When removing the upper plenum, used a 2 by 4 resting on IAC to lift the cowling. It was easy as the screws were out. Also, did not remove the vaccum lines and the connectors at the back. The middle separator could be lifted high enough to get to the 6 ports and clean them easily. I also did not have a torque wrench. Just judged the torque needed when I took the bolts out. I tightened them in the suggested sequence and towards the end was doing it 1/4 turn at a time utill I thought they were a good snug fit. I feel good that I did not under or too much over torque them. First I used gas to clean the 6 ports and was having a hard time. Did not want to use any thing sharp. Went to the local Adv Auto shop and picked up a can of Carb cleaner. Amazingly I was able to clean all in five mins by using just finger pressure on a piece of towel.

Thanks to pcitizen for his procedure which inspired me to do this job.

I wanted to tackle this myself, but it's now about 20 degrees here in Michigan.

So I took it up to our Local Ford dealer in Southfield, armed with all the knowledge from these posts. Considering that parts themselves are $200 from Ford ... (I know the kits online are $99, but those are not Genuine Ford parts.) Anyway, I expected it would run $700 or more, as others had mentioned. As a pleasant surprise, the total was $537. At this time of the year, I think it was $$$ well spent.

Earlier in the summer the Power Sliding Door motor went, and that was going to be $1000 to fix. Found a used motor for $100, and back in business ...
but it was warm then.

But I just want to say ... this forum is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
It can really save you some serious coin.

Many thanks to pcitizen the information on his website. Just did the repair and it made it very easy. Only thing I could add is be careful with the cruise control cable. I should have paid more attention to pcitizen's instructions. It looked to me like one of those pop-off connections that snap on to a little metal ball. IT IS NOT!!! Standing on the left of the vehicle push the connector slightly to the opposite side and then pull toward the firewall and you will clear the the metal disk it connects to rather than breaking it like I did. The replacement cable is not cheap. Nonetheless a small price to pay to do this job yourself. My conclusion is if you own a Windstar for any length of time, you have either done this repair, or will be doing it. Thanks again.

Doug360, I agree with you on the Cruize/Throttle cables. One of them with the black connector is real easy to take off and re-attach. The other one is not so easy. My suggestion is to take a flash light or something and see how the cable is attached before you actually take it off. I spent 15 frustrating minutes trying to re-attach it. Finally realized there is a slit in one side of the v-grooved routing wheel and a hole on the other side. You have to thread the hammer shaped end of the cable though the two.
If you are not changing the spark plugs, then the job can be made easier if you take the cowling off half way. By that I mean is to take the wiper arms off, then take the 4 plastic screws off to take the black plastic off. Then take the 8 metal screws off to loosen the metal base. This will allow you to move the cowling about 2 inches which gives you enough room to take the top plenum out. This way you don't have to touch the wiper motor and all and don't have to take off some vacum pipes and connectors at the back. They were hard to get off and almost made me quit. But I was able to leave them in place and was able to lift the middle spacer enough to get to the EGR ports...Good luck to all.

I just got these two codes on my '01 Windstar Limited. I'm going to try my luck at the dealer tomorrow. If that doesn't go well...is there anyone in northeast Ohio that's done this? Thanks!!

It will be interesting to see what the dealers are quoting on this job these days. Please let us know. Hope some one will answer your question about North East Ohio.

I got a quote several days ago in Wisconsin, the total cost would run me. . . . . . . $895. I think I will tackle this myself(or attempt to anyhow). Wish me luck.

Hey Guys
Just found this sight this weekend.
I've been batteling this 171/174 code for nearly 3 years now with my 2000 Windstar and I'm at me wits end and ready to dump this van for a Honda or Toyota.
The intale was originally taken care of under the vans extender warrenty when I first bought it in 03.
Then after that I occasionally got the CEL with the 171/174 code,I would just disconnect the battery and then let the car relearn it's adaptive strategy.
Well last January the metal heater line under the intake let loose,so in doing that repair the intake got replaced again and shortly after the CEL ame on again,scanned and of course got the 171/174.
Van ran fine so I disconnected the battery and reset the light.
Well I had to get the car inspected so I once again reset the light ran it's adaptive strategy process drove the car for 50 miles and right into the inspection bay.The car passed NYS emmissions inspection.The next day the light was back on.
But now the car was running like crap,feeling like it's going to stall at lights and surging when in park and at idle.
Since I'm short on time I dropped the car at my local wrench.
He determined the intake was again leaking.OK so he replaced it at a reduced price since he did it in January.
Next day the damn light is back on,back to the shop,yeah 171/174 is back.
Once again he goes through all the checks and the only thing he can find is a little excessive leakage during a smoke test at the EGR,so he replaces it at no charge until we know if it's the cause and if it works then I only pay for the part no labor.
Well not 24 hours and 25 miles go by and it's back.
So now I have a few hours to play.
I can't find any vaccum leaks so I pull the MAF and clean it,replace the air filter and fuel filter.While doing all this the battery is disconnected.
Button everything up hook up battery and run the 2 minutes in park the 2 minutes in drive then 2 minutes in drive with all accessories on to let the car relearn it codes.The take the car for a nice easy 5 to 10 mile drive not exceeding 45 mph.
Well the car runs great but after less then 24 hours and approx 20 miles the damn CEL light is back on,I cannot scan it at the moment but I can bet it's 171/174.
Any suggestions,where do I go,Im so sick and tired of this iece of trash in my driveway but my wife loves it and I can't afford new right now.
I,ve been a dedicated Ford man for many years now But I'm ready to jump ship right now.
Pete

just did this repair last night. Total took 2.5 hours. I'd completely suggest removing the cowl. Way easier. Second, I'd suggest removing the firewall side vacuum, electrical lines after removing the plenum. Easier to see what you are doing for sure. Lastly, I took an empty egg carton bottom, numbered it 1 - 12 and used that to hold the plenum bolts. The 13th, 14th I just set beside but it really helped keeping them straight for reassembly. As I've said in other posts about this same procedure, the isolator bolts and plenum cover all get torqued to 89 in-lbs. I did them in steps of finger tight, 50 in-lbs, then 89. No broken parts :grinyes:

Thank you for all your helpful posts, especially to pcitizen for your helpful website. I have a 2003 LX model and I had a question. Since it's a new model, I know I won't have to replace the valve cover. But my question is, are the isolator bolts on my car still the older version and therefore in need of repair to the newer green colored version? Most of the posts were with the 99-01 range so I just wanted to double check before I bought the parts. Thanks a bunch.

I've got a copy of the Ford TSB it is article #03-16-1 and it covers 1999-2003 Windstars with the 3.8 engine.
If your one of the lucky one like I was in the beginning to have an extended powertrain warranty of 6 years 75000 miles then the dealer will do it under warranty.
Also if you don't have the light and it's showing no symptoms then leave it alone.Like the old saying goes ,If it ain't broke then don't fix it!

Hi, I am new to this forum and was hoping for some advice. Some background...the check engine light came on in my 2003 Windstar. I took it to my mechanic and it was determined that it had a bad mass air flow sensor. That was replaced and the residual crud (oil buildup) was cleaned up. Fuel system cleaner was also added. The check engine light came on again a couple weeks later and I took it back. The infamous P0171/P0174 codes popped up. My mechanic replaced the PCV valve and told me I would have to take it to Ford if it came on again as he could not perform the other fixes in the TSB for these codes (not sure why). I have been driving it for a couple of days, and the light has not come on. A couple of questions:

1. If it does come back on, should I take it to Ford immediately? Will I cause engine damage if I do not?
2. What is the approximate cost to do this job and get rid of these codes? Unfortunately, I do not have the experience/resources to do this job myself and would have to take it to the dealer :disappoin.

Thanks!

I've got a copy of the Ford TSB it is article #03-16-1 and it covers 1999-2003 Windstars with the 3.8 engine.
If your one of the lucky one like I was in the beginning to have an extended powertrain warranty of 6 years 75000 miles then the dealer will do it under warranty.
Also if you don't have the light and it's showing no symptoms then leave it alone.Like the old saying goes ,If it ain't broke then don't fix it!

Thanks gasman1075 for your post! Unfortunately, my car is having the cel on and the two codes are P0171 and P0174. The car is showing absolutely no symptoms of rough idle or rough starting or loss of power etc. It's running like a baby, in fact, we went on a trip of about 350 miles one way with it and absolutely no indication of any of the symptoms on these posts. However, it keeps recurring. After it gets reset, it came back on after 2 weeks or so.

About the extended powertrain, how do I know? I'm not sure where to look for that kind of information on my car?

humbug1, to answer your questions:
1) No you do not need to take your van to the dealer immediately after the CEL. Some people have driven for thousands of miles with the CEL on. The first time the light came on in my 2001 van was in Jan 2005, I had it reset by Adv.Auto. It did not come back on for another year. Yes, Dec/Jan 2006. Must be some thing to do with the NC cold. Well this time it came on in Nov 2007. I reset it and it came back again after one week. I knew it's time to have it done. I did it my self. The improvements I saw was that the engine was running very smoothly. The pinging noise on acceleration was gone also......I do not recommend you drive for long period of time or for long miles. Just have it done as soon as you can.
2) The post above mentions a repair quote of $895. Others have mentioned $700 to $1200. Depends on how greedy your local dealer is. I am sure they can do the job in 1.5 hrs.

Humbug1,

I hear ya. I tried looking at the warranty book from my windstar and found that it came with a standard 3yr/36000 warranty. I am waiting until Monday to call my dealer to see if I had the extended warranty on it but I'm not counting on it.
1. If it does come back on, should I take it to Ford immediately? Will I cause engine damage if I do not?

To get to your questions, if you read the 9 other pages of posts, you will find varying levels of symptoms. Most of them appear to be more significant in the older models (i.e. 99-01). In my case, the P0171/P0174 codes have not resulted in any noticeable performance issues at all. If you are not having any issues with idle or power issues, then you are in a similar boat as me. It's just annoying to have the light on and if I have a safety inspection done which is required here every 2 yrs, then they would fail me.

2. What is the approximate cost to do this job and get rid of these codes? Unfortunately, I do not have the experience/resources to do this job myself and would have to take it to the dealer :disappoin.

I have seen a lot of varying costs here. Most of them range in the $200-1200 category depending which post you read. Some of them are clearly ripping you off. The parts should cost no more than $100 from the dealer unless they replace unnecessary parts. But they will charge you for labor. If you bring up the TSA, they might cut you a break and share the cost of the repair (at least that's what happened to the first poster).

Hope this helps somewhat. I would call around and get some quotes and tell them about the TSA.

Humbug1,

what was the code the first time? You mentioned that the 2nd time was the P0171/0174 codes but what was it the first time?

As you can see from the other posts the cost will vary.If you figure about $200 for labor( 2 hours)and 1 hour of diagnostic($100) plus the parts you can be as low as $400.
Do you have to take it to the dealer?NO,but lots of shops are not familiar with the repair and the updated parts to do the repair and they are the only ones that can reflash the PCM which is part of the TSB.
Will you do damage to the car?I can't say for sure,but I have this code showing for near 3 years now with little adverse affects except for really poor fuel mileage and spark plugs fouling due to the computer dumping fuel to make up for the lean fuel reading.
Basically this CEL is caused by unmetered air getting into the intake system after the mass air flow sensor(MAF) most likely a vacuum leak usually caused by the inutile manifold leaking but can be caused by many other things as is the case with my 2000 Windstar,while no one including myself has been able to find the problem.
Personally I would go to the dealer armed with all the information available and see what they say.
As far as your warranty coverage or when it expired only you would know that.Did you buy the car new or used?If new what type of warranty came with the car?If used was it from a dealer or private owner.If dealer what type of warranty came on the car,if private then forget about it.
Good Luck

Thanks to all that responded! Hopefully changing the PCV had fixed the problem. There are no driveability issues at this point so I will keep an eye on it. Mundy5, sorry for the confusion...those two codes were the only codes to pop up.

Well here I am, I just got my 2003 Windstar back from the dealer. The CEL came on, so I called and made an appointment. They called to say that the code 0171 & 00174 came up. That I have "clogged EGR ports". She then said it would just bee $572.98 to fix it...requiring replacing 6 O ring gaskets, insulator bolts, etc. I can't affort that, so I picked it up. I called another dealer, who referred me to a mechanic at a Lincoln Mercury Dealer. He asked how many miles are on it. It has 70,000 miles, runs great, and has had the routine oil changes, just as recommended by Ford. He told me that he would be more likely to belive it if it had 200,000 miles on it. So, my question is what you guys think, and is there an alternative way to clean them out. I have seen other less costly solutions on the web with other vehicles. Please help me with any suggestions you may have. Here in Florida, we do not have emissions inspections, so unless the CEL light came on, I wouldn't have known anything about it. $80.00 spent so far. By the way, the CEL is not on, if they have reset it, how long until it comes on again, and am I causing problems by driving it? We are about to have company and plan to use the van for trips of about 40 miles at the most.Thanks!

How did they know it had clogged EGR ports if they didn't have the manifold off to check them???The egr ports are only visable when the upper intake manifold is removed.
Check this web sight for photo's and step by step instructions on the procedure to repair this problem it also has information on the Ford TSB pertaining to this problem.http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html

kjtdrt,
On my 2000 van, the first time the CEL came on, at 50K, I reset them. They did not come back for a year (after 10K miles). I did not notice any thing in the operation of the van. I reset them again. Took another year. Reset them again. Came back after 2 weeks. Decided to do the repair my self. In your situation, I would just wait until the CEL came back and see how long it takes. In the mean time it is not going to ruin anything. Just my opinion.

Well here I am, I just got my 2003 Windstar back from the dealer. The CEL came on, so I called and made an appointment. They called to say that the code 0171 & 00174 came up. That I have "clogged EGR ports". She then said it would just bee $572.98 to fix it...requiring replacing 6 O ring gaskets, insulator bolts, etc.

It sure sounds like the solution that is suggested by the TSB in this post. That's exactly what others have done apparently on their own for a range of costs. I just purchased my replacement kit from Ebay for $91 delivered. I'm waiting for the light to come back on.

So, my question is what you guys think, and is there an alternative way to clean them out.

I'm sure there are all kinds of alternative ways like certain types of cleaners (fuel additives) that claim to clean out fuel injectors etc. I'm not sure if they will correct any of the problems. My guess would be that the real problem is the isolator bolts which deteriorate under contact with oil and so the replacement of that and any clean up of the egr ports would solve the problem. Have you checked out the website mentioned on the 1st page of this post? His car was a much older model which makes me suspicious of their diagnosis. It is most likely the isolator bolts.

By the way, the CEL is not on, if they have reset it, how long until it comes on again, and am I causing problems by driving it? We are about to have company and plan to use the van for trips of about 40 miles at the most.

I would not worry about it unless you are experiencing power problems or hard idle issues. We drove over 350 miles one way with the light on with absolutely no problems and even no effect on our gas mileage as some have reported on this post.

We reset the CEL and it came back on in about 2 weeks. The first time, it was just the 171. The 2nd time it was both the 171 and 174. We reset it the 2nd time and it's been about 1+ month. I'm still waiting for it to come back on and for the weather to get warmer so that I can make the fix.

I did make sure all the plugs etc were on tight.

hope this helps.

Your fellow 2003 windstar owner.

Hi, all. I have been following this thread with much interest. I have a 2002 Windstar that is experiencing the codes, problems, etc. The dealer checked it out and quoted... drum roll please.. $700 to fix it.

Forget that, I think I'm going to follow along with what everyone else has done and do it myself. Wish me luck!! Hopefully I will be able to get to it this weekend..if I can get the parts by then.

Thanks to everyone who has posted their experiences here.. I'm hoping it will help me out on this project since my wife is really anxious for me to get it fixed!!

Penguinix

Good luck penguinix. please post after your experience. i'm just waiting for the weather to get a bit warmer and for the cel to come back on before I do mine.

Hi All, Last weekend I did the TSB on my 2000 Windstar currently has 71000 miles.
I purchased all the parts from Ford.
6 Port Seals $2.55 ea.
8 Isolator Bolts $7.71 ea.
U-shaped Vacuum line $21.42
Upper Intake Seal $16.91
Valve Cover $59.50 with gasket
I also changed the plugs $8.27 ea and a new PCV valve $10.71
My CEL has been on for quite some time with the famous 171 and 174 codes, I noticed I’ve been using more oil then usual and I had to get it through the state emission test. (Failed test and you can’t renew your license plates here in Chicago, new law) I did remove the cowling made it easier to change the plugs. All in all it went very well I followed the instructions from the web site. Took about 4.5 hours
http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html (http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html)
and yes I passed the emission test today

I succesfully performed the TSB leckemby.net (http://www.lekemby.com/) repair on my 01 Windstar this Sat. in 3 hours solo. Everything went smoothly until I had to disconnect the cruise control wire from the bracket attached to the plenum.

It snapped off in my hands, breaking the cable near the boot that is on the bracket attached to the plenum. I can't fix it, I think, without buying a new cable. Am I right?

Anyone had to do this , and what I am looking at for the part, time to fix, if I try it myself.

BTW Changed the rear plugs from below ( you have to have skinny arms and small hands) , and didn't remove the wipers/cowl for the TSB with no problem, just had to pry the thing up when sliding out the top plenum.....

I paid $43 on Ebay for the parts including the valve cover from an individual, and if I was trying harder could have done it in 2 1/2 hours.... I was extra careful not to f it up.

The ping/ knocking is gone, and the light is off. It runs sooooo good now.... 110K miles

Please check http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html for more information on the Isolator Bolt TSB and DPFE problems.

Hello,

I found this site because I was looking for PO171 / PO174 DTC information. I would like to thank pcitizen for his very informative web site! That is some great information.

I have a 2002 Windstar I bought new and it now has 68,000 miles. I just got the PO171 PO174 codes. My van DOES have the updated valve cover without the hole. After reading this entire thread I started the van up and used a 3/8" fuel line hose about 3 feet long. I held one end of the hose to my ear, and the other end around the front driver's side intake where the lower portion meets the engine. I definately DO hear a hissing sound in this area so I strongly believe I have this problem. I cleaned out the PCV today and found some oil in the upper portion by the throttle body. I have cleaned the PCV a least a few times over the years. Anyway, I plan to do this repair myself because my hobby is repair/maintainance/restoration of cars. I am going to order the parts online from a OEM Ford Parts dealer.

I already replaced the DPFE sensor a few months back due to an EGR code. I would like to point out that on a 2002 Windstar the DPFE is located on the driver's side down by the valve cover and is held in place by the two rubber hoses. You just pull the hoses off, remove electrical connector, and it comes right off. Just thought I throw that out there because it is different from the earlier versions.

I'll post back once I complete the repair.

Bill
2002 Windstar

OK, I found a dealer today that was open and had the parts in stock. When I called them and asked for the first number he already knew the other parts I needed. He said they sell them every day. All went well and the van idles perfectly now. After the repair I used the 3/8" fuel hose again and verified no air is leaking now.

I'd like to note the following items:

1) Van would not start after the repair. I sprayed carb cleaner into the intake to clean the EGR ports and the butterfly valves. The issue was the engine was flooded with carb cleaner. So I held the gas pedal to the floor and cranked the starter. It cleared out after a bit and then started and ran perfectly.

2) The original long gasket between the two plastic halves was in perfect shape. I bought one at the dealer and replaced it anyway.

3) The original black rubber insulators on the insulator bolts were very hard which is probably why they leaked air and lost tension.

4) The upper and lower intake were coated with oil inside. I completely removed them from the van and sprayed them down with carburator cleaner which quickly removed all the oil. Then I wiped them down with fresh clean rags then blew them dry with compressed air. Eye protection is needed if you go this route.

5) The six seals on the lower intake were covered in oil. In one location you could see where the oil was leaking out.

6) Some of the metal clips on the cowl cover broke off. I glued them back on with 3M Super Weatherstrip Adheasive (any good auto parts store will carry it). I glued them back on as soon as I removed the cover so when it was time to put it back the glue was completely dry.

7) Parts at the dealer were $99 including taxes (6 gaskets, 8 bolts, one large gasket). Same OEM Ford Parts can be had online for $68 plus shipping. Two cans of 2+2 Carburator Cleaner was $7 (Walmart would have been cheaper).

8) Took about 4 hours working at a nice slow pace. I didn't want to mess anything up.

Wife is very happy van is running smoothly! I am very happy with the results.

Special thanks to pcitizen. You have no idea how much you have helped me. Thanks again,

Bill
2002 Windstar

Hi everyone,
I just wanted to thank everyone one here for all the help that i have recieved with a few of my vehicles. I also wanted to let you know that i completed the repair today of the 171&174 problem took me about 3.5 hours parts cost me 207 and change. Not a difficult project just time consuming . Van runs great now. Thanks again.

Clarence
2001
windstar

Hi all, I just got through doing the repair. It took me a lot longer than most of you are reporting, mainly because I'm not very mechanically inclined.. but I think I have it done. My Dad helped me and he has done some work like this before, so all wasn't lost.

I only have 3 problems:

1) We accidentally dropped one of the bolts that holds the windshield wiper deep under the cowling somewhere.. I may have to buy another one unless I can get the cowling off and find it again.

2) When I start it, there is a "knocking" noise that seems to happen every second or two. I thought maybe I had hooked the wrong spark plug wires to the wrong spark plugs, even though I documented the order.
Can someone tell me if you are hooking the wires on the front plugs, is it (left to right) 4, 6, 5 ??? If not, maybe that's my problem?
Otherwise, any ideas?

3) When I turn it off, there is some sort of gurgling/rattling noise that seems to come from the valve cover area. Is this normal or a sign that I messed something up? I didn't replace the valve cover, but I did take it off and put it back on to verify that I had the "fixed" one.

Thanks!
Penguinix

BTW, parts cost me about $93 .. I ordered from a Ford Dealer online... I did not have to replace the valve cover.

2) When I start it, there is a "knocking" noise that seems to happen every second or two. I thought maybe I had hooked the wrong spark plug wires to the wrong spark plugs, even though I documented the order.
Can someone tell me if you are hooking the wires on the front plugs, is it (left to right) 4, 6, 5 ??? If not, maybe that's my problem?
Otherwise, any ideas?

3) When I turn it off, there is some sort of gurgling/rattling noise that seems to come from the valve cover area. Is this normal or a sign that I messed something up? I didn't replace the valve cover, but I did take it off and put it back on to verify that I had the "fixed" one.



Update on #2: I found my reference manual and discovered that it should be 4, 5 6 on the plugs. I changed that and the "knocking noise" seems to be gone.

Now, I just need to figure out if the "gurgling" is normal (#3).

Update on #2: I found my reference manual and discovered that it should be 4, 5 6 on the plugs. I changed that and the "knocking noise" seems to be gone.

Now, I just need to figure out if the "gurgling" is normal (#3).


I now believe that the noise is not normal.. and it seems to be from the intake manifold, not the valve cover as I first said. I'm going to go back in today after work.. I must have left something loose or such.

Thanks!
Penguinix

I now believe that the noise is not normal.. and it seems to be from the intake manifold, not the valve cover as I first said. I'm going to go back in today after work.. I must have left something loose or such.



Ok, I'm sure everyone will be tired of me replying to myself. I figured out the problem. The cabin air assembly on the cowling was the problem. It rattled when the engine was shut off. Problem solved.

Thanks for all the info from everyone, it really helped me out on making this repair. The engine is running very smoothly now.
Penguinix

repair kit for dyi. New to forum I found repair kit on net if you like fixing yourself. Cost 100.00 bucks and has all parts needed for repair. The site is 1a auto.com I havent fixed mine yet (waiting for warmer wheather).By reading posts I felt I should share info about cost of parts to repair .I hope this helps some of you in you quest on repairs.

Try Ebay also, just type in ford windstar valve repair and the whole kit will come up for about $63 dollars.

I am in Wis and it is too cold to work on mine so I am waiting until mid march.

I've read comments in other threads about some people having trouble with some of these kits (quality-wise). I went with the parts from Ford for this reason. Mine cost me about $93 shipped, w/out the valve cover.

Let me know how it works out with the kit
Penguinix

I would like to thank PCitizen for the great website & info on the 171 & 174 codes. I have little mechanical experience (oil changes, alternators, starters, etc..) but with his great link, photos & detailed breakdown off how to fix this problem, I was able make these repairs in about 6 hours on my wifes 2003 windstar ( & with no parts left over) I am glad that you didnt take this website down. It has been about 3 weeks & it is running great. Hats off to you, couldn't have done it with out this info.

I bought the parts about one year ago from the web site listed in the earlier msg. Cost $79+shipping. Included all gaskets, bolts and the cover. Gaskets Seemed very similar to the ones I took off. Bolts were green top as required. Did the job about 4 mths ago. 5K+ local miles. No problem so far. If I have to do it on another van, I would use the same parts again.

Thanks to PC Citizen and this forum for the info. I did the repair last night on my wifes windstar. The check engine light is currently off but my code reader shows that there is a "pending" status so we will see what happens.

One note about pulling off connections. After I put it all back together I thought I had everything back on but missed one vacuum line that was laying against its connector but not on.

Count your vaccuum lines and wires you remove so you can make sure you put them all back on ;)

I didn't think I had the valve cover that needs replacing but I do. I didn't buy it at the dealership at the time I bought everything else. I sure as heck don't plan on spending that kind of money on more repairs though. JB Weld, or a nut/some type of plug will suffice as far as I am concerned.

Well another victim on the dreaded 171 & 174 codes.

I have a 2000 Windstar and my extended warantee ran out last August.

I am looking a buying the kit from 1A auto and was wondering if anyone else had good success with it. http://www.1aauto.com/1A/IntakeManifolds/Ford/Windstar/1AEVC00013/

Also, if I do the work myself what have others done about the PCM update. Will FORD or any mechanic be able to update my PCM to WDS B26.2?

Do I need to drop/change any fluids in order to do this repair?

Thanks.

Well another victim on the dreaded 171 & 174 codes.

I have a 2000 Windstar and my extended warantee ran out last August.

I am looking a buying the kit from 1A auto and was wondering if anyone else had good success with it. http://www.1aauto.com/1A/IntakeManifolds/Ford/Windstar/1AEVC00013/

Also, if I do the work myself what have others done about the PCM update. Will FORD or any mechanic be able to update my PCM to WDS B26.2?

Do I need to drop/change any fluids in order to do this repair?

Thanks.

I did this job last weekend; took about 4-4.5 hrs. No fluid change necessary for this repair. I stayed away from the kits as they weren't OEM Motorcraft parts; this was a personal choice I made based on my experience with various cheaper parts in the past. I also figured that I wasn't removing the throttle body or IAC valve, so I didn't need those gaskets or the valve cover (I have the new type) included in the kit.

I removed the cowling to do this job and it made everything just a lot easier. I recommend doing this. I used pcitizen's really helpful website- thanks!!!! What a great resource! I didn't have a lot of oil in the intake, but it was serious in the PCV hose and the throttle body. Lots of oil contamination. I cleaned the lower plastic shell in a parts cleaner tank, but hosing it down with carb cleaner would have done just as well. I left the upper intake alone as I couldn't figure out how to get it apart. That may be something I come back to do right. The new bolts had more resilient rubber jackets. I didn't listen for the hissing, but I can see how their lack of give would create a leak. Everything went back together just fine. Replaced the port seals and the upper to lower seal but reused the rest. Everything's fine.

My van threw a P1409 code (generic vacuum fault) after I was done. First I cussed the stinking van (:-), then I poked around and realized that I forgot to reconnect the harness for the EVR (elec. vacuum regulator) in the back of the intake clamshell. Three driving cycles to clear the code and all was good as new! It has a lot more get up and go. I did the MAF sensor cleaning and a new air filter, followed by a Seafoaming, and got a lot of billowing white smoke, like I did last year. Figured that I'd get it running well and get better mileage since we're paying out the nose for gas. I've got another code today, so we'll see if I was just un-careful in reassembling or it's the MAF that I dropped in it's housing during the seafoaming process (it fell off of the front as my wife was revving- oops...). Will update.

Oh, and I did not do the PCM reflashing, as it affects mileage (for the worse). YMMV (literally!).

I did this job last weekend; took about 4-4.5 hrs. No fluid change necessary for this repair. I stayed away from the kits as they weren't OEM Motorcraft parts; this was a personal choice I made based on my experience with various cheaper parts in the past. I also figured that I wasn't removing the throttle body or IAC valve, so I didn't need those gaskets or the valve cover (I have the new type) included in the kit.

I removed the cowling to do this job and it made everything just a lot easier. I recommend doing this. I used pcitizen's really helpful website- thanks!!!! What a great resource! I didn't have a lot of oil in the intake, but it was serious in the PCV hose and the throttle body. Lots of oil contamination. I cleaned the lower plastic shell in a parts cleaner tank, but hosing it down with carb cleaner would have done just as well. I left the upper intake alone as I couldn't figure out how to get it apart. That may be something I come back to do right. The new bolts had more resilient rubber jackets. I didn't listen for the hissing, but I can see how their lack of give would create a leak. Everything went back together just fine. Replaced the port seals and the upper to lower seal but reused the rest. Everything's fine.

My van threw a P1409 code (generic vacuum fault) after I was done. First I cussed the stinking van (:-), then I poked around and realized that I forgot to reconnect the harness for the EVR (elec. vacuum regulator) in the back of the intake clamshell. Three driving cycles to clear the code and all was good as new! It has a lot more get up and go. I did the MAF sensor cleaning and a new air filter, followed by a Seafoaming, and got a lot of billowing white smoke, like I did last year. Figured that I'd get it running well and get better mileage since we're paying out the nose for gas. I've got another code today, so we'll see if I was just un-careful in reassembling or it's the MAF that I dropped in it's housing during the seafoaming process (it fell off of the front as my wife was revving- oops...). Will update.

Oh, and I did not do the PCM reflashing, as it affects mileage (for the worse). YMMV (literally!).

Thanks for the reponse.

I think I will be Ford parts just because they are OEM don't want to have to do this twice.

Since I am not a mechanic do I need to lubricate anything when putting everything in and the engine back together and if so what lubricant should I use. I will follow PCcitizens instructions but sometimes things are not included in instructions as it is taken for granted that people would know to do this.


Thanks.

I put a small amount of anti-sieze on the insulator bolt threads. Not neccessary but I don't want them to sieze up later. Everything else goes together dry.

Here is another victim of this problem. I just did the isolator bolts and gaskets a few days ago and now it idles great. I was really worried about getting into. I've worked on heavy equipment, generators, and airplanes but for some reason tearing into my own vehicle like this made me anxious. But it wasn't that hard and the parts cost less than $100.

However, afterward the light came (grrrrrrr), I checked the code and it was a 1401, some problem with the DPFE sensor. I just replaced this a few months ago. I rechecked all my connections and can't find anything missing. It is running great and was going to drive it awhile and try to clear it again.
Has anyone else had this same code after doing this TSB?:banghead:

I had my DPFE go bad (same codes again) within a few months after buying a new one from Advance Auto. I returned it on warranty and they replaced it. The new one is working fine so far.

rdsibly, i'd concur with mapdog. i'd go get it replaced since it definitely is under warranty. i hear it's an easy replacement.

actually to answer your question, the lemky website creator had the exact same issue of getting the dpfe code not long after doing this. however, his dpfe was original and was in bad shape when he opened it up. your situation is very different since you replaced it just months ago. it should not go bad that quickly.

Thanks Mapdog and Mundy, I guess I will be replacing it.

My friend's 1996 Windstar is also the victim of the p0171/p0174 trouble codes with the check engine light on. Here is what the van is doing:

When I start the car, it idles very rough, the engine rattles really bad, and it is billowing GRAY smoke. It smokes so bad that it seems like I just Seafoamed the engine. The smoke DOES NOT smell like anti-freeze, but it smells like burning carbon. I can't even drive the thing because the gray smoke is so heavy it's ridiculous. It seems to have power, but when I come to a stop or sitting in park, the engine idles really rough.

Now I saw some threads here about how to repair this problem with 2000-2002 Ford Windstars. Does the same repairs apply to the 1996 year? Also, do any of you guys have the problem with a loud rattling/clanking noise inside the engine? Thanks!

The 1995-1998 are NOT included in the TSB for the 1999 and newer isolator bolt issue.
Totally different upper intake manifold.

I listed some things to check in your other post.

Did the repair last weekend and so far no CELs.

Took me about 2 1/2 hours and I too would recommend taking off the cowling, it made everything very easy to get at. My biggest issue was borrowing a torque wrench that did 7 lb/ft.

I bought the parts in Buffalo at a US dealership as the Canadian ones are ripping us off. Example, isolator bolts in Canada $13 each and in the US $7 each. So much for money at par. :banghead:

Thanks to everyone. Without this board I probably would have had to go to a mechanic.

HELP!!!!!

As mentioned above I did the repair a week and a half ago and now my AC doesn't work.

My gut is that it is a coincidence but could I have possibly not connected something backup.

The AC light comes on the HVAC control but the clutch on the AC compressor does not engage. It stays still but the fan belt moves well.

If the clutch doesn;t engage does that mean that the freon is low?

Thanks.

I can't say with 100% certainty but no one here has had this issue after fixing the isolator bolts. Many have had the 401 code come up which might or might not be a coincidence. looks like something is wrong with your compressor or with your relay or it could be something electrical or even low r134a.

Well did my 171,174 code fix have to say went smoothly. no light yet still doing relearn on computer (dont think I need to)I hope.The only thing that I that was stupid was to do job shirtless on a very warm sunny day ,ended up with very bad sun burn .Well learn you learn from you own mistakes.LOL.Shall let y*all know if any codes show up ,

I am getting ready to do the tsb on my 2003. I have a few questions...

My Valve cover is black, and i cannot see the hole in the 5:00 position. Should I replace it anyway?

How do you clean the MAF?

I bought new gaskets for the air intake manafold, Do I use a sealant, or do they go on dry?

Thanks everyone for your help, I can build computers from chewing gum, and toothpicks, but cars scare me....

I am getting ready to do the tsb on my 2003. I have a few questions...

My Valve cover is black, and i cannot see the hole in the 5:00 position. Should I replace it anyway?

How do you clean the MAF?

I bought new gaskets for the air intake manafold, Do I use a sealant, or do they go on dry?

Thanks everyone for your help, I can build computers from chewing gum, and toothpicks, but cars scare me....

The valve cover is fine on the 2003. It does not need to be replaced.

There is specific MAF cleaner that can be purchased at NAPA or other auto parts stores but I just use electronic parts cleaner.

The gaskets go on dry.

Good luck.

pcitizen, man your website rocks big time! Can't say thanks enough!

For everyone else, I was yet another statistic of the P0171/P0174 error messages. I have a 2001 Windstar, with about 140,000 miles on it. Problem started last year, when I would notice one of the codes (single bank), would pop on typically during the winter, after the engine would idle for a while. (ie start car in morning at home, stop at drive through coffee shop, CEL light pops on). My first thought was 02 sensor at the time. Anyway, car would drive perfectly fine, other than the CEL. I would erase the code, and everything was fine. Weird thing was that during summer, problem went away. Maybe during fall, get one code a month. Like I said, initially thought 02 sensor (in error of course). Progressively, the problem got much worse until finally this past winter and the CEL was pretty much on all of the time, with both codes. Note the car ran just fine by the way. Luckily I found this forum and website, what a tremendous help! Did the repair about 2 months ago, everything fine. I think I bought the parts at the dealer for about $170. These bolts should clearly have been recalled, but since there is no safety issue god forbid Ford volunteering to do this. Quite the sticker shock to buy those isolator bolts at near $8 apiece, and there are 8!!! Same prices at 2 dealers, and I didn't want to worry about ebay parts not working right.

Some notes I might add. The amount of oil that I had in my manifold was shocking. I have not taken that many manifolds off, but I remember my F150 being very dry. Not this one! Imagine taking the manifold and submerging it in oil. The EGR ports looked like horizontal stalactites with all of the crud they had sticking out. It was amazing to me the engine ran as well as it did, the computer must really be able to adjust as needed. I like someone else skipped a few steps at first because I thought they didn't apply to me, only to discover that the throttle body is attached to the manifold, and yes you do need to remove those cables... One of the hoses to remove, specifically the one with the "squeeze clamp", was so difficult to remove, that I left the clamp on, and removed it from the other end instead. I was too afraid to ruin the hose. Just in case anyone else has this happen. Also definitely take the cowl off, be careful though some of those bolts might be rusted, and they mount in plastic housing. I ended up breaking some of those pieces off, but it wasn't really a big deal, replaced bad bolts withh new bolts from hardware store and large washers.

Also, I changed my spark plugs and spark plug wires since the cowl was off, just to make this job longer... By the way, the rear plug on the passenger side is much easier to remove if you drive the car up on ramps first, and get it from below.

Thanks pcitizen,