What Is The Best Car For A Beginner??


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gillman6000
12-02-2004, 06:30 PM
I am a beginer at driving. I am buying a new car, a begginer type of car. So what car should I get for myself, a beginnner, but i can mod it easily into an "experienced" driver type of car, and in a low price range?

igor@af
12-02-2004, 06:32 PM
- manual
- turbocharged from factory
- rear wheel drive or 4 wheel drive

youngvr4
12-02-2004, 06:40 PM
what igor said

kman10587
12-02-2004, 09:56 PM
- manual
- turbocharged from factory
- rear wheel drive or 4 wheel drive

Celica All-Trac Turbo, Eclipse GSX, RX-7 Turbo (2nd gen.), 300ZX Turbo (1st gen.)

Just to give ya some ideas :)

S2CorollaR
12-02-2004, 11:06 PM
He'll get himself killed mighty fast in any of those cars.

Get something with sub 170 HP.

Maybe a Civic SI, a Foxbody Mustang possibly, but that would push the limits. For your experience I would highly recommend a GSR. It has very nice power when you get the experience and it's not too powerful. Try to avoid RWD cars. My first car was a 1968 Pontiac Firebird and I can't count the times that I slipped out the rear and almost died. And before any gear heads come in with that, "That car is perfectly ok, you don't know how to drive" That's the thing, no one knows how to drive with low experience and shouldn't put themselves in a powerful car with a lot of its grunt in the rear wheels.

Sticky
12-02-2004, 11:14 PM
Something like a Taurus or a lower model Civic, not incredibly fast or powerful, easy to handle, and not incredibly exensive.

NISSANSPDR
12-02-2004, 11:28 PM
Something definitely sub 170HP...something he can learn what speed is and handling...

S2CorollaR
12-02-2004, 11:59 PM
Yeah, learn his limits, learn throttle control. And like Sticky said, something inexpensive, so maybe the GSR is out the window.

The thing is, no one avoids dings, not even young drivers if they are going to drive fast and learn to drive fast. You don't want to get thousands of dollars in repairs for minor dings and dents or engine repair. Find a car that has moderate power (150-170HP) that doesn't have terribly expensive parts.

Polygon can give you info on Chrystler Le Baron GTC turbo coupes. Those are relatively cheap, hard to find, but great for beginners and for modders. (Mid 15's to high 14's stock, which is on par with Celica GTS's)

The most important thing... Get used to the flow of traffic and be ready for random instances, because driving fast is VERY dangerous. It's not easy or a game at all, not even with a car that has 170 HP or less.

I took a GSR up to 145 MPH when I was 18 and it was pretty crazy at that speed. How crazy? My gf at the time yelled for me to stop and grabbed my arm and the car almost flew off the road just from a small nudge.

Get used to the throttle on whatever car you get because it means life and death. The throttle is the life of the car, no matter how much HP it has. You can go from 15% power to 100% power with that pedal's pressure.

igor@af
12-03-2004, 12:16 AM
bah...

He can learn in a performance car just as well. Just can't be stupid - never go above the speed limit for a while, for some months, with that he will get used to the car a bit.

Some kids are stupid enough to kill themselves no matter what power the car has. I recently heard a story of someone going over a 100mph on a country road in Jetta and a passenger is still in comma as I understand.

So long as you're disciplined and smart, having a powerful performance car as your first car is not that dangerous.

kman10587
12-03-2004, 01:09 AM
Agreed, any car with 150-170 HP is gonna be fast enough to get yourself killed in. He might as well start getting used to RWD or AWD.

k3smostwanted
12-03-2004, 01:17 AM
yeah...if you throw him in a FWD 80 hp car he will just eventually have to begin all over again when he gets a more powerful AWD/RWD car. it would be pointless. just be extra cautious the first few months. might as well learn on what you want instead of pussy footing around with a geo storm. :lol:

my :2cents:---i think a 240sx is almost too perfect of a beginner car for someone who wants to get into some serious RWD action. its not all that powerful, it handles good, and you can find them for fairly cheap (well you used to be able too). then when learn that, you can sell it to some kid who wants to jump in on the latest fad to hit the US, for twice as much as you paid for it. or keep it, and the tuning options are almost endless.

S2CorollaR
12-03-2004, 02:38 AM
They have a saying, "You never learn your limits until you hit them..."

That saying is 100% true. Put him in a 250HP RWD car and when he finally does test his limit, he might get himself killed. He needs to learn HIS limits, not the limits of a car itself. Once he learns his limits and his curve of learning, he can move up.

It's not best to start yourself off with a strong platform and adjust your level of experience to it. You get a car that is most close to your level of experience, and then you learn with it.

k3smostwanted
12-03-2004, 02:59 AM
They have a saying, "You never learn your limits until you hit them..."

That saying is 100% true. Put him in a 250HP RWD car and when he finally does test his limit, he might get himself killed. He needs to learn HIS limits, not the limits of a car itself. Once he learns his limits and his curve of learning, he can move up.

It's not best to start yourself off with a strong platform and adjust your level of experience to it. You get a car that is most close to your level of experience, and then you learn with it.

right, being cautious, alert, and smart. but i dont understand why someone would start with a FWD car barely able to break into the 20 second range, when what they really want is to drive a 400 hp RWD/AWD street car. im not saying he does, but i am saying, start with something that you can learn on. you have to put yourself in a position to push your limits. after about a week of driving a geo storm, im sure that a average joe schmo will have that pretty much down pat and hasnt even pushed their limits yet. you act like driving is rocket science. average in town driving is the same in every car, unless there is snow on the ground or something. you accelerate, you drive defensive, and your brake. driving isnt all that difficult....

i mentioned the 240sx because it is a good learning car for something beyond driving in town. a 240sx can serve you some learning experience if you take it to a local track or you go to a parking lot and see some charateristics of the car. and if you havent pushed your limits still, then you can at a turbo kit or some bolt-ons and see what you can do then.

NISSANSPDR
12-03-2004, 03:22 AM
You dont give kids something fast they can kill others w/...ppl down south get Corvettes and Supra's...and ppl die b/c of it...they end up street racing b/c they think they are hot sh!t and innocent ppl die...

In a fast car...you tend to go faster than you would say in a car that takes forever to get to 70mph

I am not saying stick him in a Geo Metro...but something where he wont put his foot down and then look up and realize he's going 110 in a school zone!

S2CorollaR
12-03-2004, 03:31 AM
What about the extremes? If he's barely experienced in driving, he's bound to be barely experienced with engine mechanics. No offense to you being a Nissan fan, but anyone knows an Integra GSR would make mincemeat out of a 240SX with stock engine, and the learning curve on the GSR will be much friendlier to beginners.

Him being an average mechanic, you can't throw that, "Swap in an SR20DET, put in like 3k$ and run 11's" crap because that doesn't apply to beginners.

The problem with the 240SX isn't just the RWD, it's the fact that it only has what, 140HP stock? Once he learns on it, he'll push the limits of it, and even when he reaches them, if he does get the swap, he won't apply those limits correctly.

You have a learning curve and limitation for every car you drive. You get a 1995 Mustang GT and learn on that, then you amp up to a Z06... You won't be able to apply the aggressive driving knowledge you learned to the Z06.

I'm simply pointing out that he'd be much safer in a GSR or something similar, and when he does learn, he will have a car that is relatively quick. He learns on a 240 that's great, but when he gets bit by the horsepower bug, it's not a simple obstacle to cross. Not to mention the fact that an SR20DET doesn't perform incredibly well stock.

When you take out engine swaps, him wanting to run 12's, and cars that will outpar Vettes after a "simple" 5,000 dollar build, he'd be much better in a FWD car than a RWD car.

I don't know... Maybe you're strongly mistaken about what it's like to drive when you're young, but I've been driving for a "mere" 6 years, and I remember fully well what it was like to drive that young.

Let me describe it for you:
I couldn't handle the freeway. I was too sensitive at the wheel and couldn't keep the car straight at speeds above 75MPH. Once I got to higher speeds I started to swerve left and right like I didn't have control over my arms or the steering wheel. It's like you have no sense of judging speed when you're that inexperienced.

Don't even mention throttle. It was either too little or too much gas, and if I was driving my Firebird, I'd be dead now. My mom, thankfully, put me behind the wheel of her 150HP heavy Oldsmobile Cutlass automatic for the first 8 months of my driving. It was incredibly underpowered but had some gruff since it was a V6 mid entry sedan. I peeled out a lot coming away from stop signs because I had no perception of throttle pressure. Hell I didn't know what "throttle pressure" even was.

Being that young, you have a heavy foot because you're not used to the gas. It's also incredibly hard to judge stops. A lot of times you push it really close and do a big # on the brakes. I had a lot of jerky stops and whenever the light would turn green while I was still rolling to a stop, I nearly shit myself as I would skyrocket across the intersection from going from heavy foot on brake to heavy foot on the gas.

With that description are you going to tell me with a serious look on your face that I was capable of driving a Twin Turbo Supra or a Corvette just by "driving defensively"? Because if you do, then you really have no credibility giving advice to someone asking these kinds of questions. Try to take out the performance enthusiast point of view when a freakin' kid asks you for advice on getting a car. A lot of kids die out there and it's not 100% their fault. A lot of times stupid parents buy their kids the hottest car they can get, sub 25,000 dollar price mark, not realizing that their child only has a 6 month driving experience under their belt, and the car that they are picking can outrun police interceptors.

k3smostwanted
12-03-2004, 04:41 AM
well, crap. i hate writing long posts...well here goes. :lol:

i never said anything about swapping motors or beating vettes or getting ferraris or any of that. i was just stating that if you want to learn RWD, you CANNOT start with a FWD car. thats just stupid...and a waste of money.

you just were talking about how it is dangerous and then you stated how the integra is the better choice because it has more HP. yes it has an easier learning curve as does probably any FWD car but if he wants to learn to drive RWD then to buy a GSR would be stupid because then he would have to sell the GSR and get something that is RWD and learn how to drive it. see what im saying? just because he is learning doesnt mean he cant start with a RWD car.

i wasnt trying to state that the 240sx was faster than a GSR or better or anything. i just simply said it is a good car to learn on. not a whole lot of HP, reliable, and good gas mileage. i dont know where all this "swapping motors", "sr20det", and "running 12's" stuff came from. the only thing i said was that the 240sx was a good car to learn on and then if he wanted to continue to learn, there is always the possibility of upgrading. i didnt say anything about giving a 16 year old a 12 second 240sx. i just said give him something that he can benefit from.

and i am a nissan fan but i am more or less a car fan. i was simply introducing into this thread the possibility of him wanting to drive a RWD car in the future so why not learn how to drive one. if his dream is to own a powerful FWD car then by all means learn to drive a FWD GSR, very good choice. if he wants a powerful AWD car someday, pick yourself up a AWD Talon/eclipse or a celica all-trak.


With that description are you going to tell me with a serious look on your face that I was capable of driving a Twin Turbo Supra or a Corvette just by "driving defensively"? .

about this comment. i should have phrased that more clearly. driving down a street takes the same amount of skill in a 500hp car or a 50 hp car. you have to slowly push down the accelerator and then when something red comes up, you have to push down on the brake, while all this time you have to be on the look out for carious things such as; pedestrians, signs, other cars, turn signals, brake lights, potholes, crossing-walks, etc. . i was not stating that a kid behind the wheel of 300+hp supra will not push the accelerator down further because its fun. i just simply stated that the same skill is involved. i cant control what the kid does, i was just stating the skill involved is the same. your saying i shouldnt be giving advice because why....???? i gave someone the advice to start with a 140hp reliable, economy, RWD car if he wants to learn how to drive RWD cars. i never gave any advice about going and getting a supra or corvette. i dont know if your just pulling this out of your a** or what.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
the only thing i am saying is that there is no point of starting out with a car that has no room for learning to take place. you cant learn by playing it safe all the time. you have to make mistakes and take chances and then next time you will learn. if your driving your 240sx and the back end slides out, next time you know that when i do this that back end is gonna slide out on me. no point of giving him a FWD car that he cant learn anything in just because it is safer. you cant learn or expand your limitations if you dont have a car that will take you beyond your limitations. think about it....

S2CorollaR
12-03-2004, 05:09 AM
Yes but a simple hitting of the throttle isn't as simple as you make it seem. He's less possible to go flying down the street and into a building in a 170HP car than he is in a 250-300+ HP car. And RWD cars, in straight lines, perform virtually the same. I'm thinking more in a utalitarian perspective.

He gets a GSR it's easy to learn on, once he learns to drive, he has a quick car for the upper division of driving.

If he gets a RWD he's in a semi lose/lose situation. For one, he'll deal with slipping in his early stages. 5 speed + n00b + RWD = lots of burn out tickets. This of course, isn't even intentional. Let's not forget the fact that EVERY guy under the age of 20 will peel out in his car, especially if he's a performance desiring person. I've peeled out in a lot of V8's and a lot of RWD cars, I have found that peeling out in a FWD car is a lot safer and there's less room for error. Peeling out in a RWD car can get you into a wall really fast if you don't have at least 6 months of experience behind you.

We have to aim him to a car that will keep him safe, under all possible circumstances. You can't turn him to a car, assuming that he's going to be the most safest best driver in the world, there's a reason he said this:
"but i can mod it easily into an "experienced" driver type of car, and in a low price range?"

He plans on driving fast down the road. He also said, "easily mod". Last I check, there is no easy mod that gets past the entry level low revving truck engine that's in the USDM 240SX's. Last I checked, you could also get into high 14's with just bolt on's and suspension mods on a GSR.

GSR is of course not his only choice, but it is definitely a viable option based on the elements I have mentioned.

NISSANSPDR
12-03-2004, 05:48 AM
BTW guys...the 240SX...from 91-98 had 155HP/160TQ

FYI :2cents:

k3smostwanted
12-03-2004, 05:54 AM
:sly:
Yes but a simple hitting of the throttle isn't as simple as you make it seem. He's less possible to go flying down the street and into a building in a 170HP car than he is in a 250-300+ HP car. And RWD cars, in straight lines, perform virtually the same. I'm thinking more in a utalitarian perspective.

ok i still never said in any of my posts anything about him getting a 250+ hp car. i recommended one car if he wanted to learn to drive RWD.


He gets a GSR it's easy to learn on, once he learns to drive, he has a quick car for the upper division of driving.

your point is valid but maybe he doesnt want to get into this upper division of driving...maybe he just wants a fun car to start out with and then go buy a 350z or a corvette. that FWD experience will all be thrown out the window when he gets behind the wheel of a powerful RWD car.


If he gets a RWD he's in a semi lose/lose situation. For one, he'll deal with slipping in his early stages. 5 speed + n00b + RWD = lots of burn out tickets. This of course, isn't even intentional. Let's not forget the fact that EVERY guy under the age of 20 will peel out in his car, especially if he's a performance desiring person. I've peeled out in a lot of V8's and a lot of RWD cars, I have found that peeling out in a FWD car is a lot safer and there's less room for error. Peeling out in a RWD car can get you into a wall really fast if you don't have at least 6 months of experience behind you.

dude, have you ever driven a 240sx? i mentioned this car because peeling out is not something this car can do with ease. if you have a halfway decent set of tires, your really gonna have to drop that clutch for it to burn any substantial amount of rubber from a stop.


We have to aim him to a car that will keep him safe, under all possible circumstances. You can't turn him to a car, assuming that he's going to be the most safest best driver in the world, there's a reason he said this:
"but i can mod it easily into an "experienced" driver type of car, and in a low price range?"

yeah, but you have to understand that a FWD car isnt gonna help him if he decides that he doesnt want a "beginner" car anymore and he wants something RWD with 300+hp.


He plans on driving fast down the road. He also said, "easily mod". Last I check, there is no easy mod that gets past the entry level low revving truck engine that's in the USDM 240SX's. Last I checked, you could also get into high 14's with just bolt on's and suspension mods on a GSR.

GSR is of course not his only choice, but it is definitely a viable option based on the elements I have mentioned.

thats fine in dandy if he wants that.

dude, you have valid points all in all. but i think your missing my point.

my point being: if in the future he wants to learn to drive a RWD car i see nothing wrong with giving him a 140hp-155hp RWD car. i really cannot see a 240sx being much more difficult to learn how to drive than any other car in its HP range. i was just bringing a what if to the table. what if he wants RWD, because it sounds like to me that he wants a "beginner" car. when i think "beginner" car, i think something that can just teach you the basics of a more powerful car. then once you have those basics down, you can sell your "beginner" car and move onto a more powerful potent car. you have to understand what i am trying to say, i think you are just missing my point. i really do not see how the 240sx, a non performance based vehicle is so bad of a car to start out on. you act like im trying to convince you that giving him a freaking bougatti is a good choice for a beginner.

Jimster
12-03-2004, 06:47 AM
Buy a Honda Civic Si or Integra GSR to start with, find a gravel road, thrash as you see neccessary.



Problem solved. Next

G35XAndTrailBlazer
12-03-2004, 08:51 AM
A Volkswagen Golf!
or a Jetta!

Great little cars that will run forever.

mommaslilinjun
12-03-2004, 11:03 AM
get an audi 80/90... slow enough to not be too dangerous but fantastic handling due to the quattro awd system and you can get one for a couple grand. Plus, audis are fairly respectable cars.

friday86
12-03-2004, 11:52 AM
I am a beginer at driving. I am buying a new car, a begginer type of car. So what car should I get for myself, a beginnner, but i can mod it easily into an "experienced" driver type of car, and in a low price range?

Car w/Mods:
FF:Honda Civic or Integra
FR: Nissan 240 SX
AWD: Eclipse GSX/Talon TSI AWD

well, thats just my 0.02... its up to you... what kinda car you want? These cars are the ones that the majority of the people have, so there's a lot of people that know about it...

S2CorollaR
12-03-2004, 03:04 PM
Ok then it's settled.

If he wants a car that is RWD, (which he didn't say, I guess you missed that) then he should get a 240SX. This is still kind of iffy though because he said something easy to mod. 240SX's are not easy to mod in the US because of that truck engine.

If he wants a car that is FWD, GSR/Si equivalent, maybe other brands if he can find one for cheaper but GSR's are easy to find cheap and can take quite a beating. This car is also easy to mod fast, which is one of the things he's looking for.

k3smostwanted
12-03-2004, 05:00 PM
Ok then it's settled.

If he wants a car that is RWD, (which he didn't say, I guess you missed that) then he should get a 240SX. This is still kind of iffy though because he said something easy to mod. 240SX's are not easy to mod in the US because of that truck engine.

i never said that he DID say he wanted RWD, but i did say IF he wanted to learn RWD the 240sx is a GOOD car for a BEGINNER to learn the RWD layout. i do not understand how i am being misunderstood...


If he wants a car that is FWD, GSR/Si equivalent, maybe other brands if he can find one for cheaper but GSR's are easy to find cheap and can take quite a beating. This car is also easy to mod fast, which is one of the things he's looking for.

good choice...i couldn't agree with you more. i never said that anything was wrong with the GSR, i simply stated that if he wants to learn RWD he is gonna have to buy a RWD car.

kfoote
12-03-2004, 05:05 PM
In a car with lower capabilities, you will catch mistakes in your driving that will be masked by a good handling and more powerful car. I see it all the time in various racing clubs. If you can be fast in a Miata, you'll be fast in a Corvette, but it can take a lot more time for the inverse to happen.

That having been said, I don't think a 240SX is a terrible car to start driving on, as long as it doesn't rain or snow where you are. IMO the best plan is find a reliable $2000 car that standard maintenance items are cheap on, then move up to something different later. In the very beginning, driving something that can be considered disposable is a better option, no matter what the layout/drivetrain is. My first car was a POS 1985 Mercury Topaz with all of 85 HP, and the few off road excursions I had probably would have been a lot worse if I had a car that had higher capabilities.

Anecdote for how you can get into trouble:
On my TEST DRIVE for the STi, (had a 2.5 RS as a daily driver at the time, had 60+ days of track experience, and 11 years fo street driving in all types of cars), i accidentally found myself going 55 in a 40 MPH zone...100 yards out of the dealership parking lot. IMO anything over 175 HP is WAY too easy to get yourself into trouble with if you have very limited driving experience.

NISSANSPDR
12-03-2004, 05:13 PM
If he wants a car that is RWD, (which he didn't say, I guess you missed that) then he should get a 240SX. This is still kind of iffy though because he said something easy to mod. 240SX's are not easy to mod in the US because of that truck engine.


Truck engine...what the hell is your problem man? Who cares where it was or if it ever was...truck engines have torque...something the Si or Integra are NOT going to have in gobs...the KA24DE is super easy to work on...have you owned one? No...have I...yes you twit! I had one for 6 years and it was super easy to work on and never gave me one damn problem whatsoever!!!

Does any of this look hard to work on?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v513/NISSANSPDR/Sold%20240SX%20Pics/Bay.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v513/NISSANSPDR/Sold%20240SX%20Pics/Headers.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v513/NISSANSPDR/Sold%20240SX%20Pics/valvecovershot.jpg

Jeez...a Z32 engine is HARD TO WORK ON...ask any Z32 guy and he will tell you he wish he had room to work with b/c it would make maintence alot easier if you didnt have to hoist the engine out everytime you wanted a lil work done

God dont speak unless you know what you are talking about... :headshake

drunken monkey
12-03-2004, 05:25 PM
k3s....
you're being misunderstood cos that guys sounds like he's trying to win an 'argument'.
hence his closing with
"OK then it's settled".

he saw an argument when there wasn't one and he jumped on it.

k3smostwanted
12-03-2004, 05:54 PM
Jeez...a Z32 engine is HARD TO WORK ON...ask any Z32 guy and he will tell you he wish he had room to work with b/c it would make maintence alot easier if you didnt have to hoist the engine out everytime you wanted a lil work done


yeah i can vouch for that. :D and i can also vouch for the 240sx(my best friend has one) being a very simple car to work on and parts are pretty inexpensive.

k3s....
you're being misunderstood cos that guys sounds like he's trying to win an 'argument'.
hence his closing with
"OK then it's settled".

he saw an argument when there wasn't one and he jumped on it.

yeah i kinda gathered that...i think he just misunderstood what i was trying to state, and took it as if i was saying that his idea stinks and mine is better. :dunno:

gillman6000
12-03-2004, 06:08 PM
I still have no clue on what to get. There are so many suggestions. i want AT LEAST 200 hp, 4-door, and sporty. thanks...

graphicassult
12-03-2004, 06:25 PM
Why do we always suggest rice for first cars? Do the smart thing and get a truck! You can always have more fun in a truck. Its easy to work on. Awsome power, and you can get a 4 wheel drive and go mudding. Plus insurance can be considerably less than some sporty car. Not to mention the kid is 16, if you give him something to sporty hes gonna loose his license fast. Heres what i suggest. Mid to late 90's s-10's are awsome. And if you really want a 4wd you can have it. They're also sporty and aren't at all hard to drive. Ford Rangers are also alright. If your lookin for something a little bigger you can get an awsome late 80s-to mid-90's Chevy fullsize for cheap. And they run forever, no matter what you throw at them. Don't get some rice car kid. Their a bitch to work on. Go with the trucks!

k3smostwanted
12-03-2004, 06:27 PM
Why do we always suggest rice for first cars? Do the smart thing and get a truck!

:lol: now we got trucks in the convo...

I still have no clue on what to get. There are so many suggestions. i want AT LEAST 200 hp, 4-door, and sporty. thanks...

ok...thanks for narrowing it down a little bit. whats your price range??? WRX is a fast car. i dont know if its great for a beginner but it will work for what you want. nissan spec-v, lexus is300, etc...

S2CorollaR
12-03-2004, 08:32 PM
No I wasn't arguing. You just kept throwing in non existant variables.

He started out saying that he wanted a car that can be upgraded, and you come in with this, "Well in the future if he wants to move up to a higher car, fix it up to 700 HP and win NHRA tournaments" etc etc.

You kept throwing variables in that didn't exist, and I had to keep refuting them.

And don't try to throw out that the statement I made was in reference to maintenance. Don't talk about performance, and then switch it to maintenance for the convenience of strengthening your argument. You'll only succeed in changing subjects around so much, it doesn't sound like you know what you're talking about.

Yes, I have owned a 240SX. A 1992 5 speed one with the KA24, and that motor sucked. I didn't like the idea that the only way to draw power out of that car was to swap in a motor that was illegal to own in the US, or at least it would've costed an additional 1500 dollars to be able to insure the car WITH that motor.

It had decent torque, but literally shit itself as soon as it hid mid range. The most the car did was get chicks' attention whenever I had a system in it, but speed? No thanks. I sold it because I got smoked by almost every car I came across. And no, before you say it, I am not a bad driver. It takes a lot of skill to pull 16 second flat ET out of a 2002 Corolla with NO mods.

When I wanted to get power out of it, almost all I saw in Nissan forums and from Nissan enthusiasts was either to rebuild the head, turbocharge it, or swap it out for an SR20DET. That's not "easy to work with", that's a pain in the f'in ass. A GSR can pull high 14 second ET's with just tires and bolt on's, but to get power out of a 240SX you need a 3000 dollar swap? Yeah right.

k3smostwanted
12-03-2004, 09:16 PM
dude i never said nothing about any 700hp car or NHRA tournaments. WTF are you talking about?!?!?!

all as i said was that a 240sx was a good car to learn how to drive RWD cars. WTF is so hard to understand???

remember, you dont want him to have a powerful so why the hell are you talking about putting turbos and shit in the 240sx. you CAN put bolt-ons on the car to make it quicker but yes you have said one thing that i can agree with you. without a FI the 240sx is not gonna be a beast. more reason for it to be a "beginner" car.

what is this talk about swapping motors and legality??? you dont have to swap motors. i dont know where your getting this. you can add a turbo and stay legal. you can go all motor if you want. but that is a different conversation and i dont know how it keeps getting tossed into the convo. i never once said anything about swapping motors or turning this 240sx into a HP demon. your the only one that keeps talking about swapping motors and 700hp.

LISTEN CLOSELY: IF you want to LEARN how to drive a RWD car, you HAVE to buy a RWD car. that is all i have said. i dont know what the guy wants so i through into the thread that IF he wants to learn RWD, a good car will be a 240sx. you cant learn something that the car doesnt have. [ex. you cant learn how to drive a manual car if you have never driven a manual car.]

the only variable i have thrown into this thread is that; IF he wants to learn to drive RWD he has to buy a RWD car and LEARN it. i dont know who's posts you are reading but they are not mine. your taking everything i say and twisting around so it seems like im telling a 16 year-old to go buy a monster 700hp sr20det swapped 240sx. IM NOT. im telling him that a 240sx is a good car to learn RWD. if you find anything wrong with that comment, please state your argument, otherwise stop talking about 700hp cars and upgrading cars. he wants a "beginner" car. i cant think if many other cars better than the 240sx to learn RWD.

NOW LETS GET BACK ON TOPIC:
I still have no clue on what to get. There are so many suggestions. i want AT LEAST 200 hp, 4-door, and sporty. thanks...

the guy who started this thread has narrowed it down for us. he wants a beginner car but it seems to me he wants something that he can see himself driving. so when he is beginning he is gonna be EXTRA cautious, right "gillman"??? :D

kman10587
12-03-2004, 09:37 PM
i want AT LEAST 200 hp, 4-door, and sporty. thanks...

My vote goes for a 2002-2005 Subaru Impreza WRX, but if you can't afford that, go for a 1995-1999 Nissan Maxima.

MexSiR
12-03-2004, 10:56 PM
You can get killed in any car.

Put it this way, you crash against a tree at 70 mph in a:
1)Geo Metro
2)Bmw M3

Emergency brake situation going at 90 mph in a:
1)Geo Metro
2)Bmw M3

Your better off in the M3.

Every car can go fast enough to kill you!

gillman6000
12-03-2004, 11:36 PM
well... $25,000 MAX, i want a sporty CAR, NO TRUCKS, i don't have anything against trucks but i just don't want a truck right now. I'm 16 and just started driving, and i'm going to be cautious k3mostwanted, but i want some sportyness, handling.

RedLightning
12-04-2004, 12:52 AM
I said I didnt want a truck for my first car, but then I drove this one, its more fun then the Maxima and GTP I learned to drive in. But then you said you want 4 doors. RWD might not be the best choice for your first car, Ive fishtailed in mine twice, but its the most fun. Heck check out some GTP's great fun! You can make em pretty fast too.

k3smostwanted
12-04-2004, 01:20 AM
im with kman...subaru WRX. power, AWD, 4 doors, its everything you could ask for. hell of a car...i dont know prices but im sure they are under $25k. also, AWD might make up for some small errors that a beginner drive might make when testing his car to see what it can and cant do. but still be very cautious, the WRX is not a granny car by all means.

BTW: thats an expensive car for such a young guy, where do you work? can you get me a job??? :lol:

kman10587
12-04-2004, 01:30 AM
$25,000 max, that's a generous amount for a 16-year-old. You can certainly get a used WRX for that kind of money, or if you wanna spend less on the car and more on mods or whatever, you can go for the Maxima. The Pontiac Grand Prix GTP (1997-2005) is also a very stout sedan with a large aftermarket, although no manual transmission is offered and the driving dynamics are pretty dull. There's also the BMW 330i and the Lexus IS 300, but those place emphasis on luxury as well as performance, so expect to pay more.

igor@af
12-04-2004, 02:00 AM
guys, stop being pathetic... arguing over advice to give to a person for his first car? (not to mention going off on tangents and getting personal).......

NISSANSPDR
12-04-2004, 03:35 AM
Just to shut Corolla boy down for one last time...glad you dont own a 240SX anymore...b/c now someone who deserves...has it...just b/c you dont know how to get the power doesnt mean it sucked...you can slap on a custom turbo kit for about 1600 bux...hmm...price of bolt ons...

600 - full catback exhaust
200 - cold air intake
300 - headers
300 - ECU
400 - Tires

So you say w/all that you are going to pull high 14's in your GS-R...well you just spent about 1800 bux w/o shipping and w/o install charges...

For about 1600 bux TWO of my 240SX buddies got custom KA24DE-T setups and both are running now around 250rwhp...ask TatII...it doesnt take much to go fast...and w/the setups they have...they run high 13's to mid 13's...

Hmm...guess the KA24DE does suck...in your hands!



To respond now to gillman's question...

SRT4, WRX, SE-R Spec V, Mazdaspeed Protegé

kman10587
12-04-2004, 03:48 AM
Goddamnit, JUST DROP IT. Now he's gonna reply to that, and it'll start all over again...

k3smostwanted
12-04-2004, 04:06 AM
:lol: thats ok. its fun to read and reply. :D

gillman6000
12-04-2004, 11:17 AM
I have some money saved, and i'm working so... i was thinking the volkswagen jetta or the rx-8 or the evo, or the celica, or a sporty car like these...

RedLightning
12-04-2004, 01:08 PM
Out of what ur looking at, get an evo.

kman10587
12-04-2004, 01:19 PM
If you decide that you can't afford the Evo, the Jetta 1.8T is also a good pick out of those that you just listed.

drunken monkey
12-04-2004, 01:26 PM
...no offence meant but if you've had to save up for the car, are you sure if you can afford to keep/maintain/run a sporty/faster/higher maintanace car?

cars like the evo and the RX-8 eat tires which don't come cheap
and the RX-8 especially is more or a less a black hole into which you will be feeding money....

that's not including insurace which i have no idea what you guys pay in the U.S.
i remember when i was first looking at cars and my mum gave me a £12,000 budget.
i thought "cool, 106 GTi it is then"....

...until i got some insurance quotes....

15poundhead
12-04-2004, 10:09 PM
Why not consider a Scion? ne of the three are good beginner cars, with the tC going to become the most "mod-able". Style/looks is up to you. the xA and xB look weird though

15poundhead
12-04-2004, 10:12 PM
a 270-hp turbo'd rally car as your first car. Learn to drive on your dad's camry or watever, then think performance.

NISSANSPDR
12-05-2004, 12:29 AM
Why not consider a Scion? ne of the three are good beginner cars, with the tC going to become the most "mod-able". Style/looks is up to you. the xA and xB look weird though

Well...the tC is not a four door like he said he wanted...

15poundhead
12-05-2004, 12:48 PM
sorry bout that

kman10587
12-05-2004, 02:15 PM
Well, he just listed the Celica and the RX-8 (which aren't four doors), and he also listed a few cars that aren't at least 200 HP, so I don't think he knows exactly what he wants.

S2CorollaR
12-05-2004, 02:50 PM
For about 1600 bux TWO of my 240SX buddies got custom KA24DE-T setups and both are running now around 250rwhp...ask TatII...it doesnt take much to go fast...and w/the setups they have...they run high 13's to mid 13's...

Hmm...guess the KA24DE does suck...in your hands!

What's funny is you didn't shut down shit. I told you like three times, don't bring custom work into this, because you're leaving out one of the key elements. No beginner in the automotive enthusiast field can do something like that. But I guess the words in that post just went in one eye socket and out the other. You see a car, you only think of the custom work right?

I could get a 10'x10' piece of metal and take it to an engineering factory that one of my friends might own and make it evenly cut and turned into the pieces of a custom turbo kit and then use toilet paper, a pencil and a hanger to make an intercooler and it would cost less than 400 bucks, but none of this even matters since no one on the face of the earth can do it, right?

I mean seirously, it's like you angle the argument only to favor your end of it. You come in with this "custom work" bullshit, not saying whether it was your friend that did it, or a shop that did it. If you know a shop that installs daily driven STREET LEGAL turbo kits for 1600 bucks, tell me, I'll go over there right now and get one, hell me and three other people too. If he did it himself, then you truly are a tool because I told you to only bring in elements that are in easy reach of a 16 year old.

There's no way in hell he can install a turbo himself, or get past the weak N/A power of the KA24.

You're right, I didn't deserve to own that car, because I was a high school junior, with at the most, 600 dollars in my pocket. If you can tell me with honesty that a person in that condition could do as much with a 240SX as he could do with a GSR, then just quit this forum and spend the majority of your time on a Nissan forum, where stupidity like that is accepted in open arms.

EDIT: Back to topic. I think this guy's pulling our legs because he at first said beginner car, easy to work on. Then he said 200HP Four Door but put the Celica in that comparison? I mean... No one on the face of the earth thinks a Celica is 4 door, except my grandmother if she even knew about cars.

drunken monkey
12-05-2004, 07:21 PM
...the RX-8 has got four doors....

gillman6000
12-05-2004, 08:10 PM
thank u drunk person...the rx-8 has 4 doors...and the celica was my last choice anyway. and i know what i want. and those cars u said are not at least 200 hp i would use my pocket change and mod em' up to 200 hp. and anything lower than 200 hp, i think, that is not enough and for older people, so i will do what i have too, to get it up to 200 hp or more.

k3smostwanted
12-05-2004, 11:44 PM
i still say WRX...4 doors, over 200hp, sporty...perfect car for what you want...

kman10587
12-06-2004, 12:04 AM
My apologies, brain fart on the RX-8. I subconsciously assumed that he wanted a sedan. And yeah, I still stand by the WRX as being the best choice. The SRT-4 is good too, but the handling and ride quality just aren't the same, and FWD really becomes a liability past 300 horsepower.

S2CorollaR
12-06-2004, 02:13 AM
You need to be 100% certain or at least more than 75% certain on your future goals before you make this choice.

If you are happy with 300HP or sub, then SRT-4 is a good choice. It's a lot cheaper than your budget, you can use the money to make up whatever it lacks made better than what you're comparing. The insurance on an SRT-4 is bound to be lower than the EVO.

If handling is in any way, shape or form, something in your future goals, then go with the EVO hands down. Even though it will be used and higher priced than the SRT-4, nothing you can do with the SRT-4 will make up for the handling advantage.

drunken monkey
12-06-2004, 11:01 AM
i'm still a bit 'worried' about whether or not you can afford to run/maintain a faster car.
how old are you?
what's your income?
do you know how much it costs to service, cover insurance, fill a tank, tires etc etc?

too many and i mean no offence when i say this, 'kids' don't see the upkeep of cars, only the initial costs of buying one.

going back to an RX-8 cos everyone's familiar with it.
outright i can afford to buy one.
i can just about manage to comfortably afford insurance on it.
what worries me as a buyer is the need to regularly check and top up oil, high fuel consumption, high tire wear rate and very tempremental engine that behaves well when it decides it wants to....

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