which one?

I've made my decision and i'm going to build up the '96 civic hatch, currently it has the original 1.6 liter sohc non-vtec engine. So i was going to do a swap, but i can't decide which engine? I was originally going to go with some sort of b18, but a buddy of mine who i consider very knowledgeable on this subject says i should go with a b16a. Also before i go on i must also mention, i'm taking an engine overhaul class so i will be stripping the engine all the way down to the bare block. So i will be able to build it up. Anyways my friends arguement is that the b16 swap is easier, and secondly he says i won't notice that much of a difference in power anyways. Another thing i must add the motor will eventually be turbo, just probably not for the first 7 to 8 thousand intial miles on the motor. So i'm coming down to a real debate and i have one month to decide on which engine to get. I've also heard, please correct me if i'm wrong, that the b16 is a better engine because the balance of internal parts is much better, and something about sideloading (i believe someone said it has less). And another question i had was is sleeving necessary? Because that stuff costs like an additional thousand bucks, and plus if i did sleeve the motor would those sleeves be good just for that bore and if i had to rebuild the motor again would i have to get new ones? Last thing, if you know of some good parts stores, or brand names for certain parts to get or to steer clear of please list them. Thanks.

id get the b18c1 and resleeve, build it up and turbo the crap outta it.

id get the b18c1 and resleeve, build it up and turbo the crap outta it.
i agree

B16's are cheaper, but if you can afford it, get the b18c1. It is the same exact swap. All b-series swaps are pretty much the same. The difference between the b16 and the b18 is night and day. It is a huge difference. There is almost a second difference in 1/4 mile times between the two motors. Deffinetly get the b18 if you can. If you plan on turboing, and don't have enough for the b18c1, then get a b18b. That little bit of displacement makes a huge difference. You will only need to sleeve the block if you plan on running more than 12psi. My friend just got his stock b18c1 tuned to 8psi with everything stock except exhaust and intake manifold and he made 280.4whp. The guy who tuned it said he could tune it to 12psi and make about 350whp. He got a complete kit from cheapturbos.com and got injectors and Hondata. Is that enough power. He has a stock block and stock internals and stock head.

So a b18 is the way to go. About how much of a price differential can i expect to pay over the b16? Also would it matter since i was building the motor and eventually turbo(ing) the motor if i got a b18b or a b18c? Another thing would be, where could i look to find one of these engines, it wouldn't have to be in perfect shape? Also type of tranny should i look for, my buddy said a gsr tranny because he said,"i would remain in boost longer". Are there any alternatives to a gsr tranny because aren't those kinda costly? thanks for the help.

Usually the shop that sell the morors sell the complete swap. There is about a $1,000 price differance between the b16a2 and the b18c1. www.jhpusa.com has everything and they're a good shop. There are millions of shops though. Just search the web a little. I'm sure others are posted on this forum somewhere too. To get technical, the LS tranny is the best for boosting, but all of them are fine. The gearing isn't too much different.

my question is, could i use a b18b instead of a b18c if i'm going to build it? Would the difference be that noticeable, because i think i could find a b18b for much cheaper considering i'm going to be putting pretty much all new internals in anyways? I definitely will get the blocked sleeved, new rods, pistons, polish the crank, and re-do the head. So basically is a b18c really necessary, other than higher comp. and not for sure but maybe different cams, is there really that much of a difference between the b18b and b18c? thanks, this really helps.

Yeah, the b18b doesn't have vtec. It has like 140hp stock. It's good motor to turbo, but the b18c1 is better. Like I said if you can spend the money the b18c1 is the way to go, if not I would rather have the b18b over the b16a2 because it has more torque. The b18c1 has 170hp stock. The vtec is always a good thing to have and some people would argue that the b16a2 is better than the b18b. It get's down to what you want. But the b18c1 is the best to get in your situation if you don't mind spending the extra $1,000. Shit if money isn't much of an option you should do a b20/vtec, sleeve and turbo that. You would be fast as shit with that setup. But it's pricey.

Is there anyway i could get a vtec head for the b18b, it's just that i'm really looking for something that is a little more used, those b18c only had an average of about 15,000 miles on them. Just with all the other stuff i'm going to have to do 3 grand just for the engine is a little more than what i'm looking to spend. Also is there any b18 series that is vtec and isn't a gsr or type-R engine? Thanks for the help.

wow, i'm really starting to reconsider re-sleeving the engine. i just did a search on honda engines and something came up about making tons of power on stock sleeves. so of course i read it, some of these people were making huge numbers on stock sleeves, indeed this does decrease the reliability of the engine, but in most cases the sleeves weren't even what blew. Internals failed before the sleeves failed. I was only looking to make about 350-400whp, and that seemed minimal to sum of the numbers posted. (the weren't bs numbers either the had dynos to prove it) So basically could a b18b produce those types of numbers with proper tuning and boost without resleeving?

yeah stock series are pretty strong and will handle the 400whp you plan on making, it needs to be tuned good to prevent any kind of detonation because that will kill hte sleeves.

and putting a vtec head on a ls block is nothing new, lots of people do this its called the lsvtec. no theres no other block other then the gsr or type r that is 1.8 vtec

and if you get the b18b over the gsr, the only real difference is that its gonna take mroe boost to reach your desired hp then if you had the gsr, and second you can rev higher more safely with the gsr.

oh yeah and about the 12psi thing and getting sleeves, thats wrong. people are pushing 500whp on there stock sleeves, they are higher then 12psi. how much your sleeves can handle all depends on the tuning, if its tuned really good and doesnt detonate then it can handle alot, if it detonates it wont handle alot.

and for pushing your stock block past 300whp, it wont last long. you shouldnt take your stock block past 300whp, you will have reliability issues

now as far as running more boost on a b18b to obtain the same amount of power as a b18c did you mean even if i had a b18c head on an ls block i would still need more boost? Also is that lsvtec swap that difficult? Next, when you said the gsr will rev higher more safely, would this still stand true even if the b18b had aftermarket rods, pistons, polished crank, and an aftermarket valvetrain and maybe balanced? (the only reason i ask, is because this i what will most likely happen to the b18b if i get it.) And last would i notice any difference as far as power goes, if i went the lsvtec as opposed to using a b18c, assuming the lsvtec had the same compression? this help is great keep it coming, pleease.

ok when you say don't push your stock block past 300whp, do you mean the stock internals couldn't handle it, or literally the block couldn't? sorry if these questions seem dumb, kinda new to this whole turbo, i'm not a newbie, but then again i'm far from a pro.

listen dude get a b18b block from a junk yard for dirt cheap buy a good head like a b16 head build the head so it can rev get a ls tranny cuz ur going turbo (i like the b16 tranny my self) and call it a day. ur bottom end will hold until you can afford to go faster. this set up wont disappoint you.

ok, the ls/vtec sounds like a good set up, i'll prolly go with that. But my car right now still has the original 1.6 liter SOHC non-vtec motor in it, so what i'm asking is; saying i get an ls block, and b16a head, what other parts will i need to complete the swap? (manifold, computer stuff, throttle body, you know those kinds of things.) Also something was mentioned to me about the ls/vtec swap not being very reliable because the b16a head wasn't designed to be used on the b18b block, i mean i've heard it will run, but just isn't very reliable due to mixing and matching of parts? Once i heard that i started the ls/vtec downside thread, but as long as people keep answering here i might as well post my questions here. Like i said before this is all really helping me out, thanks for knowledge, keep it coming. Sorry one more question, what did civickiller mean by don't push your stock block over 300whp or it won't last long? did he mean don't push the stock internals and stock sleeves over 300whp, or did he literally mean the block won't handle that much hp? once again sorry for the lame questions.

no if you had an lsvtec then no you dont need more boost to make the same power as a gsr, you will probably need less boost. my comparison was for the b18b and b18c, not lsvtec

no ls vtec swap has been made easy now, hardest part is tapping the head to plug the oil passage. the design of the head and valve train and rocker arms that limit rpms in teh ls head. the rocker arms are too loose in the ls head, also the flow of the ls head isnt ment for high revving. ls vtec will make more power then the gsr if its tuend for it, if you try to run your lsvtec with a b16 ecu, you will probably make less hp then a gsr.

oh and for your 300whp question, the sleeves will handle 300whp, guys are running over 500whp with stock sleeves, what will break is the ring lands on your pistons.

thanks civickiller, now you've got me wondering. I posted in my other thread about sleeving the block, i was originally going to sleeve the block with AEBSracing T-sleeves, because i was told that the stock sleeves couldn't handle it, but now i'm starting to wonder whether or not i should spend the extra thousand bucks to sleeve the motor. Last question, if people are running 500whp on stock sleeves why would anyone need aftermarket ones? thanks.

wow, after reading this site http://hybrid2.honda-perf.org/tech/lsvtec/lsvtec.html i think i'll stick with the good ol' b16a engine and turbo the crap outta it.

its easier then that now, thats an old site

I have an LS/Vtec. It's a great motor. The only downside for me is smogging it. I live in CA so I can't. The only problem with the b16, like mentioned before, is torque. Even when they are built like crazy, they are slow as shit until they hit boost. The b18 will be a lot stronger before boost. Of course you could put bigger sleeves in the b16 block which will get more dispacement for torque. A guy I know has a b16 but the dispacement is 2.4 liters. He races an all motor CRX, and makes over 300whp.