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synthetic blend VS. good quality regular oil?


BlazinUP
11-07-2004, 11:18 AM
im just about to do an oil change on my 93 s10 4.3/w.
i was wondering....is it worth it to use a synth blend....?
or is good quality regular oil just about the same for a few bucks less.
any thought? :)

OverBoardProject
11-07-2004, 12:52 PM
I personally feel that Synthetic Blend oil is better. I ran it in a very high performance motorbike with a 15,000 rpm red line, and when it came time for the tune-up nothing needed adjusting (and the valves usually really need re-adjusting by that point).

BlazinUP
11-07-2004, 08:10 PM
so if i switch to the blend....do i need to do a flush first?

OverBoardProject
11-07-2004, 10:02 PM
You should really read Oil on this forum and then decide weather to flush the system

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=290590&goto=newpost

not_mine
11-08-2004, 02:22 PM
I ran Royal Purple in my truck for most of it's life. On horsepower TV they took a camaro and changed all the fluids to synthetic and gain 15 horses! Not bad for just changing fluids.

OverBoardProject
11-08-2004, 05:01 PM
15 hp you say? Well if they actually ran it on the dino I believe it, although to me it seems rather high. I'd expect 1-3hp gain

BlazinUP
11-08-2004, 05:55 PM
id go full synth...but i heard trucks with my kind of mileage are prone to leaking.....so im just gonna go with a blend :/
as for 15hp increase.,.that sounds a lil unreal......but what do i know :P

OverBoardProject
11-08-2004, 06:25 PM
Seriously check out this site, several of us have made the switch to full synthetic with high milage engines without a problem.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbu...90&goto=newpost

BlazerLT
11-08-2004, 11:25 PM
im just about to do an oil change on my 93 s10 4.3/w.
i was wondering....is it worth it to use a synth blend....?
or is good quality regular oil just about the same for a few bucks less.
any thought? :)

How many miles on the engine?

vtmecheng
11-09-2004, 07:48 AM
If you have a lot of miles on the engine (60000+) on mineral oil (regular oil) then you should really stick with what you use. Changing oil that late in the game really isn't good for an engine, while you may only loose a few thousand miles of life in the long run. An engine gets used to one kind of oil, and switching back and forth will cause multiple wear patterns to form. If you really really want to switch, just go to a blend. Just remember that with synthetics the brand is even more important.

BlazerLT
11-09-2004, 05:03 PM
If you have a lot of miles on the engine (60000+) on mineral oil (regular oil) then you should really stick with what you use. Changing oil that late in the game really isn't good for an engine, while you may only loose a few thousand miles of life in the long run. An engine gets used to one kind of oil, and switching back and forth will cause multiple wear patterns to form. If you really really want to switch, just go to a blend. Just remember that with synthetics the brand is even more important.

Sorry bro, you are rehashing myths that has been pushed around shops for way to long.

Synthetic can be changed at any time if you have no leaks in the first place. I myself had 125,000 on the odometer and I changed and everything was as smooth as butter.

For true synthetic, go with Mobil 1.

BlazinUP
11-09-2004, 07:23 PM
i have 140k on the 4.3 W...........LT.
castrol synth any good? or just the moble 1?

BlazerLT
11-09-2004, 08:41 PM
I too used Castrol Syntec only to find out that it is not true synthetic by a hydrocracked conventional oil basestock which can be certified as synthetic in todays market which is just wrong.

Only true PAO based synthetics are Mobil 1, Amsoil and Redline.

All the rest are the hydrocracked conventional and labeled as a Group III synthetic which is again, not true synthetic.

not_mine
11-10-2004, 06:01 PM
I too used Castrol Syntec only to find out that it is not true synthetic by a hydrocracked conventional oil basestock which can be certified as synthetic in todays market which is just wrong.

Only true PAO based synthetics are Mobil 1, Amsoil and Redline.

All the rest are the hydrocracked conventional and labeled as a Group III synthetic which is again, not true synthetic.

Don't forget Royal Purple! Good stuff! But if your wallet isn't that deep then go with Mobil 1

BlazerLT
11-10-2004, 06:11 PM
Nope, Royal Purple is a Group III syntheic and is NOT a true synthetic.

slimmy07
11-12-2004, 12:38 AM
keep in mind they say if you use syntheic you dont have to change your oil every 3,000. so in the long run the extra couple of bucks might be worth it to you

BlazerLT
11-12-2004, 12:48 AM
When you do the calculations, running synthetic is actually cheaper if you extend and use the proper drain interval for synthetic.

vtmecheng
11-12-2004, 08:46 AM
Dont know where you guys heard Castrol isn't good stuff and that Mobil 1 is great. Someone is blowing smoke up your ass, or you just like the NASCAR commercials. A good friend of mine did the testing of synthetics for US Navy engine use and here is what he found...Castrol and one other brand were top performing, both in there ability to lubricate/protect and longevity. On the other hand, Mobil 1 was one of the worst. It was so bad that Mobil 1 had to change the wording of there claims due to the results. End result, if the guy that does oil testing uses Castrol that is good enough for me. If you would like for me to explain the actual scientific reason for not changing to full synthetic with after a lot of miles on mineral oil just ask, as a mechanical engineer I live for this stuff.

kenwood guy
11-12-2004, 02:55 PM
I just use normal oil its just a sales pitch to me then again I have an engine with 200,000+ miles

BlazerLT
11-12-2004, 03:15 PM
Dont know where you guys heard Castrol isn't good stuff and that Mobil 1 is great. Someone is blowing smoke up your ass, or you just like the NASCAR commercials. A good friend of mine did the testing of synthetics for US Navy engine use and here is what he found...Castrol and one other brand were top performing, both in there ability to lubricate/protect and longevity. On the other hand, Mobil 1 was one of the worst. It was so bad that Mobil 1 had to change the wording of there claims due to the results. End result, if the guy that does oil testing uses Castrol that is good enough for me. If you would like for me to explain the actual scientific reason for not changing to full synthetic with after a lot of miles on mineral oil just ask, as a mechanical engineer I live for this stuff.

Do you even know what you are talking about or are you just taking you buddy's word as gospel here.

Castrol Syntec is not even a true synthetic.

vtmecheng
11-12-2004, 04:40 PM
I am not just taking the words of a random mechanic or engineer as true. He helped head the oil testing for the US Navy, making him a very reputable source. With that said, I really don't care how the oil is made as long as it works really well. The fact is, Castrol works better then Mobil 1. Now that I have revealed the source of my information please do the same BlazerLT. You can't expect me to just believe you without the source of your information, that would just be stupid.

BlazerLT
11-12-2004, 04:46 PM
So you think that I am lying that it is not a true synthetic?

vtmecheng
11-12-2004, 04:52 PM
I am in no way saying you are lying, just want to know where you got your information. I especially want to know how you got the idea that Mobil 1 is better then Castrol. If you think it is because Mobil 1 is considered a "true synthetic" then that is very nerrow minded.

BlazerLT
11-12-2004, 05:00 PM
OMG, are you serious?

Castrol Syntec is a hydrocracked conventional motor oil.

Mobil 1 is a synthetic PAO based oil which is composed of components that are not from standard motor oil.

Want proof, read here....

http://www.1st-in-synthetics.com/articles60.htm

vtmecheng
11-12-2004, 05:10 PM
Correct me if I am wrong but isn't that website article from Amsoil, which would be a competitor of Castrol. I am not disagreeing with you in that Castrol Syntec is a hydrocracked motor oil but no where do I see actual numbers from evaluation tests. I could care less if the oil is synthetic based, hydrocracked, or whatever, I only care what works better according to a reliable, non-partial organization's tests.

BlazerLT
11-12-2004, 05:30 PM
http://www.1st-in-synthetics.com/10W30API.htm

vtmecheng
11-15-2004, 07:23 AM
Again you are relying on the views of a competitor. The website "1st-in-synthetics" is by AMSOIL inc. You do realize that anyone can post anything they want on the web without regulation. Don't believe everything you read there chief. Let me reiterate, I don't care if Castrol is a "pure" synthetic, hydrocracted conventional (you really should use the word "mineral" there is no such thing as a conventional oil) oil, or made from the crack of an animal's as@. All I care about is that it works according to a non partial third party test, like the US government.

BlazerLT
11-15-2004, 01:33 PM
I'm not wasting my time with you.

I could show you 100s of websites and you would weasel something out of it to say it lacked credentials.

Use what you want, I will ue proper synthetic.

vtmecheng
11-15-2004, 01:56 PM
wast your time? I am always up for new information and love to read info but you never showed me an impartial thing. I am not trying to argue with you, just get the real facts on what is better. The real thing we should be looking for is what will keep our trucks running for years to come at a reasonable price. Every company wants us to believe there competitor is crap and they are great so we have to get past all the claims and word twisting to find out the main thing we all want, what works. I hope you do not take me as argumentative but someone that wants to know the important truth and not what the companies call there product or claim they can do.

BlazerLT
11-15-2004, 02:02 PM
Ok, honestly, try this forum out, all they do is oil and they test every oil out there mostly.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php

vtmecheng
11-15-2004, 02:55 PM
thanks blazerLT

BlazerLT
11-15-2004, 02:58 PM
No problem.

so much knowledge at that site it is literally intoxicating.

lapspec
11-18-2004, 03:01 PM
Although synthetic blends could offer some benefits over conventional oil there is no way to tell how much synthetic is blended in. It could be only 5% of the motor oil I highly recommend switching to the full synthetic this can be done at any time. If you have higher mileage I would also recommend flushing your engine with a product like Amsoils engine flush that way it will be cleaned out good for the new oil and you wont have to worry about clogging your oil filter.
George
www.synthetic-lubricants.com

xtrememeasures10
12-05-2004, 02:33 PM
I dont care what anyone says, synthetics do not cause leaks. However if you already have a leak they will make it show up. I switched to Valvoline Synpower Full Synthetic at 90k and i will never put anything else in my truck. The thing about standard motoroils you have to worry about is they will loose there viscosity at around 2,000 miles. inother words they will begin turning into a gel like consistancy. this gel like oil will find its way into crevices and stay there. Thus when you pour in a synthetic, it has a cleaning agent. It will clean out these crevices with gel oil in them. then you will have exposed leaks. I suggest Cleaning off your engine with a degreaser and checking for any oil leaking out of the engine before using synthetics. And in response to royal purple products, I have seen substaincial horsepower gains 10 to 15 hp just from switching fluids. but not everyone wants to spend an arm an a leg on there fluids. My favorite oils are Valvoline oils and Mobil. There more expensive than pennzoil and quakerstate but theres a reason you can get 5 quarts of penzzoil for 5 bucks lol.

BlazerLT
12-05-2004, 02:37 PM
1.) Royal Purple is a scam. It is not a true synthetic. All marketing hype.

2.) You Valvoline is also not a true Synthetic. It is a hydrocracked conventional.

Only true PAO synthetics are Mobil 1, Redline and Amsoil. The rest are made from a petrolium based hydrocracked basestocks.

vtmecheng
12-06-2004, 07:36 AM
BlazerLT:
I have been doing heavy research on motor oil over the past few weeks and learned a lot. While you are right that Mobil, Amsoil, and a couple others are the only ones to start their Synthetics in a lab, it doesn't make theirs superior. It is just how they start their manufacturing process and has little bearing on how they actually perform. Also, many oil companies will not publicly disclose their API test results. So how does Amsoil get the numbers on their website? That is a good question because it isn't from the ANSI created API required tests, I checked with every company. The only company willing to give almost all test data was Valvoline (I wonder what everyone else is trying to hide). Last, you really can't believe what is on the Internet for synthetic oils for one reason, most everything is in some way connected to Amsoil. They have saturated the internet, even making websites without their company name (the authers names are identical to those in the Amsoil websites).

sdime
12-06-2004, 01:22 PM
1.) Royal Purple is a scam. It is not a true synthetic. All marketing hype.

2.) You Valvoline is also not a true Synthetic. It is a hydrocracked conventional.

Only true PAO synthetics are Mobil 1, Redline and Amsoil. The rest are made from a petrolium based hydrocracked basestocks.


What you mean royal purple is not a true sythetic?

vtmecheng
12-06-2004, 02:52 PM
I just found the best motor oil article. It is a test run by Consumer Reports and you can read it without being a member at the following site:
http://www.xs11.com/stories/croil96.htm
This is a real CR test and really seems to go against a lot of what we think, or want to think, about motor oil. While some gaps in their testing exist, like the constant cold starts of normal driving, the test results are great.

BlazerLT
12-06-2004, 04:03 PM
What you mean royal purple is not a true sythetic?

Ryal Purple is a Group 3 synthetic which has a hydrocracked conventioanal oil basestock.

Amsoil, Redline and Mobil 1 all use a 100% synthetic PAO basestock which is not derived from normal oil from the ground.

PAO basestocks are superior to hydrocracked conventioanal basestocks.

BlazerLT
12-06-2004, 04:04 PM
BlazerLT:
I have been doing heavy research on motor oil over the past few weeks and learned a lot. While you are right that Mobil, Amsoil, and a couple others are the only ones to start their Synthetics in a lab, it doesn't make theirs superior. It is just how they start their manufacturing process and has little bearing on how they actually perform. Also, many oil companies will not publicly disclose their API test results. So how does Amsoil get the numbers on their website? That is a good question because it isn't from the ANSI created API required tests, I checked with every company. The only company willing to give almost all test data was Valvoline (I wonder what everyone else is trying to hide). Last, you really can't believe what is on the Internet for synthetic oils for one reason, most everything is in some way connected to Amsoil. They have saturated the internet, even making websites without their company name (the authers names are identical to those in the Amsoil websites).

That is because the API standard is controlled by the oil industry.

Amsoil is against the oil industry's testing methods and corrupt business practises 9aka the bullshit 3000mile oil change).

vtmecheng
12-07-2004, 10:27 AM
So what you are telling me is that the numbers posted on the Amsoil website are in house tests with no way to be sure of the methods used. Actually oils are not tested by API, it is only a regulatory body. They determine what tests have to be conducted and the scores required to pass for a particular grade. The tests are regulated by ASTM, ex. Viscosity Index: ASTM D-2270, and conducted by separate companies. Again, all API does is set the standards and make sure no one cheats. If Amsoil is conducting their own tests then be careful of these results, it is easy to make a test come out how you want.

BlazerLT
12-07-2004, 11:55 AM
So what you are telling me is that the numbers posted on the Amsoil website are in house tests with no way to be sure of the methods used. Actually oils are not tested by API, it is only a regulatory body. They determine what tests have to be conducted and the scores required to pass for a particular grade. The tests are regulated by ASTM, ex. Viscosity Index: ASTM D-2270, and conducted by separate companies. Again, all API does is set the standards and make sure no one cheats. If Amsoil is conducting their own tests then be careful of these results, it is easy to make a test come out how you want.

Enough of the conspiracy theories.

Amsoil is an excellent oil with excellent results. They have been in the business since the 70s and are regarded as the best synthetic oil maker for a reason.

Go to http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php and see for yourself. Some people have done their own tests through labs and Amsoil has come out with flying colors.

I still stand by the fact that most synthetic oils out there are bogus and are just ultra refined conventional motor oils.

vtmecheng
12-07-2004, 02:33 PM
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I am just a big believer that companies can't be trusted, this includes Amsoil. Maybe one day I will have the means to conduct my own tests but untill then I am not paying that much for oil.

BlazerLT
12-07-2004, 04:57 PM
But what about the companies pawning off their altered conventioanl oil as synthetic.

I think that is worse than anything if anything Amsoil has done.

vtmecheng
12-08-2004, 08:12 AM
Its not like the companies are pouring the same stuff in their synthetic bottles as in the mineral based bottles. While there are some companies that used hydrocracking to making their synthetics, these are still superiour to the regular stuff. If you look at Valvolin's synthetic test numbers, they give out their API results, there isn't much of a difference from Mobil 1. BTW, did you read that artical from consumer reports I linked on here?

BlazerLT
12-08-2004, 09:12 PM
I don't get it, you are against Amsoil and sticking up for companies using the synthetic tag on a non synthetic product?

For christ sakes man, the article you gave me was from 1996, that is almost 10 years ago.

You can't compare then to now like there is no difference, oil has gone through another formulation upgrade since then.

vtmecheng
12-09-2004, 07:55 AM
It isn't that I am against Amsoil, I do not agree with ANY of the companies. All oil co's should be required to give their API test results when asked. Would you buy a car that you never test-drove and only know some regulatory body rates it as a "sports car"? This is what we are forced to do with oil. It would be great that Amsoil posts test results online if I trusted the numbers. They do not use correct test results for their competitors. Example: Mobil 1 super syn's real total base number is 12 but Amsoil posts it as 8.57 making the competitor look like s@#t. Again, you can't believe everything you read, especially on the internet. You must take into account the source and authorís intentions. Don't think of me as for big oil companies and against Amsoil, I don't like anyone :evillol: . I just hate to see companies smooth talk and easily manipulated bar graphs work. I could create graphs that make Amsoil not worth it; thatís the thing about graphs, you end up believing what the creator wants you to.

BlazerLT
12-09-2004, 04:22 PM
Actually, Mobil 1's TBN is not 12 , it is indeed in the 8 range. Amsoil was right.

Again, read this forum and learn.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php

vtmecheng
12-22-2004, 08:27 AM
HMMMMM, seems you just like to put web sites up here and not actualy read them. I am looking at vergin oil tests and they seem to say TBN for Mobil 1 is 12. Go figure, I am right again and OH MY WHAT A SHOCK you are wrong again. BlazerLT, learn to shut your trap and try to not be so sucked into company statments. What makes you think you know so much about oil anyway, are you an engineer, or have you studied oil analysis/makeup because I have been. You have helped a lot of people on here with some good advice but remember that you don't know everything.

BlazerLT
12-22-2004, 01:12 PM
HMMMMM, seems you just like to put web sites up here and not actualy read them. I am looking at vergin oil tests and they seem to say TBN for Mobil 1 is 12. Go figure, I am right again and OH MY WHAT A SHOCK you are wrong again. BlazerLT, learn to shut your trap and try to not be so sucked into company statments. What makes you think you know so much about oil anyway, are you an engineer, or have you studied oil analysis/makeup because I have been. You have helped a lot of people on here with some good advice but remember that you don't know everything.

Post a link where it has Mobil 1 with a TBN of 12?

I would like to see this.

If you are going to say I am wrong, then provide proof.

Oh, and BTW, the oildrip is not a corporate website. It is made up of users just like you and me.

vtmecheng
12-22-2004, 01:40 PM
Here is the posting from the oil drop, and yes I know it is a forum because I am a member. I never said it was something else but did say that Mobil also posts the TBN numbers on its product data sheets, seems Amsoil isn't as reliable and unbiased as you had hoped :headshake . The TBN is the last value given on the post I pasted here. This post was on the Oil drop posted by "buster" on 2/3/04. It is easy to look up on the search engine.

This is from a 5qt jug (NEW Mobil 1 5w-30 VOA) at Wamlart, which moves this stuff fairly quickly. Note how low the P is! Is this the new mandate? No thanks.

Aluminum 0
Chromium 0
Iron 1
Copper 0
Lead 0
Tin 0
Moly 65
Nickel 0
Maganese 0
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Potassium 0
Boron 165
Silicon 5
Sodium 5
Calcium 2782
Magnesium 13
Phosphorus 686
Zinc 725
Barium 0

SUS 59.8
Flash 435
TBN 12.1 ! Wow

BlazerLT
12-22-2004, 02:06 PM
Yea, just saw that, I am wrong and I mean it.

Even the members are surprised that the TBN has gotten that high now.

It never used to be but hey, all the better for synthetic motor oil.

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