The Ultimate Street Skyline?


2of9
11-02-2004, 05:45 PM
Hey there, i was just thinkin and it came up in my head. Do you Skyline owners or freaks, like me, know who owns a Ultimate Street Performance Skyline GTR? well, if there is one close enough to "Ultimate Street" please tell me....thanks

my3rdskyline
11-03-2004, 03:32 AM
what? are you asking if we know of any shit hot street skylines?

flylwsi
11-06-2004, 07:33 PM
if you're a skyline freak wouldn't you know yourself?

SkylineUSA
11-08-2004, 03:53 PM
Andy's R34!

http://www.chpltd.com/japanese_performance/skyline.html

English R33
12-17-2004, 01:48 PM
1995 R33GTR
Had the car 3 yrs many mods,in now for a 2.8 stroker kit, heres the spec HKS 2.8 stroker kit,block polished and de-burred,HKS forged crankshaft,HKS forged pistons,Carillo forged rods,HKS piston rings,HKS 1.2mm steel head gasket,NGK racing 9 plugs,HKS fuel pump,HKS water pump,HKS engine gaskets,HKS steel manifold & exhaust gaskets,HKS intercooler,HKS racing suction kit,HKS full hardpipe kit,HKS 256 inlet& 264 exhaust cams,HKS vernier pulleys,HKS 550 injectors,HKS braided fuel hoses,,HKS fuel pressure reg,HKS fuel line,HKS GT-SS turbos,HKS turbo elbows,HKS dual pipe stainless competition exhaust,HKS EVC boost cont.,CUSCO catchtank,NISMO mains,NISMO big ends,NISMO oil pump,NISMO twin plate clutch,NISMO lightened flywheel,NISMO oil cap,NISMO clear cam cover,NISMO cambelt,NISMO radiator cap,TRUST sump ext. kit,TOMEI rod bolts,SPLITFIRE ign coils,MOCAL engine oil cooler,GREDDY turbo timer,MIDDLEHURST Double core radiator,Braided hoses,Engine powdercoated blue.
CRUX engineering Racing wheels 11 1/2 x 18 with 275/35/18 Continentals,PAGID pads,DOT 51 fluid,GOODRIDGE braided hoses,A-Post pod with Boost gauge & Exhaust temp gauge,NISMO clear front & side indicators,NISMO bonnet pins NISMO rear wing carbon inserts,Full leather trim in blue/anthracite,NISMO quick shift kit & gearknob MOMO handbrake lever,MOMO steering wheel,GTR overmats,Aluminium pedals with GTR inserts,Full bootbuild in blue,ALPINE 1500W Amp DIAMOND 500W Amp,KENWOOD 1000W subs x 2, KENWOOD autochanger,KENWOOD head unit INFINITY front components,In-car bass controller,EXIDE Maxima deep cycle battery,Cat 1 & tracker.Will send pics when I get it back.

SkylineUSA
12-17-2004, 01:53 PM
You have 550 with all that? Am I missing something? Although, I must say, that is the perfect set-up of a GTR if I ever saw one :grinyes:

English R33
12-17-2004, 01:56 PM
You have 550 with all that? Am I missing something?

Dont know till i get it back run it in then have it mapped but it was very responsive before and am told it will be more so. The GT-SS spool up very very fast.

SkylineUSA
12-17-2004, 02:01 PM
That is what I am saying, the cams, and turbo combo is where I want mine at. You should need 720cc for that combo. 550 would be very close if not over the 100% duty cycle. Lean is very bad.

SkylineUSA
12-17-2004, 02:04 PM
Here my GTR.

http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/503/649Thatched.JPG

English R33
12-17-2004, 02:09 PM
You have 550 with all that? Am I missing something? Although, I must say, that is the perfect set-up of a GTR if I ever saw one :grinyes:
All work done by Middlehursts it was 450 before they think about 520-530 when i get it back but with more torque and low down power.From the begining I have tried to get responsiveness rather that massive bhp as it is purely a road car , but it puts a big grin on my face every time I drive her :grinyes: :

SkylineUSA
12-17-2004, 02:17 PM
530-550 at the crank sounds about right. Middlehursts knows what they are doing, for the most part. They tend to charge for it as well.

Like I said, those 550 should be changed though.

I totally agree with that statement, build it for responsiveness. Some of the GTR Club guys like the high bhp GTRs, which to me is way wrong for a car that was built for the circuit.

English R33
12-17-2004, 02:31 PM
That is what I am saying, the cams, and turbo combo is where I want mine at. You should need 720cc for that combo. 550 would be very close if not over the 100% duty cycle. Lean is very bad.
They say it will be ok,the 550"s were already in we will see when i get it back and it goes for mapping.Get it back after the new year then have to do 1000 mls.Forgot to say it is having an APEXI Power FC,will let you know when it is mapped. Wanted to go a different route to big BHP with something different for the road.Like the look of yours mine is white,as I say will do some pics when it comes back.If I need bigger inj looks like some extra hours at work ,broke the piggy bank now hope the stroker is all its cracked up to be.

SkylineUSA
12-17-2004, 02:36 PM
Damn, that is going to be the best GTR on the island, hands down.

Do you go to any meets? Say Reading? There is a big meet there every month.

English R33
12-17-2004, 02:48 PM
They say it will be ok,the 550"s were already in we will see when i get it back and it goes for mapping.Get it back after the new year then have to do 1000 mls.Forgot to say it is having an APEXI Power FC,will let you know when it is mapped. Wanted to go a different route to big BHP with something different for the road.Like the look of yours mine is white,as I say will do some pics when it comes back.If I need bigger inj looks like some extra hours at work ,broke the piggy bank now hope the stroker is all its cracked up to be.
Over the three years I have made good friends with the guys at Middlehursts they never rip me off and I do get trade ,and nothing has gone wrong with the work they have done but I will raise your point with them thanks.

English R33
12-17-2004, 02:55 PM
Over the three years I have made good friends with the guys at Middlehursts they never rip me off and I do get trade ,and nothing has gone wrong with the work they have done but I will raise your point with them thanks.


Dont know about reading but go to Billing at Northampton,the japanese auto ext. and jap show near Bristol.Go to Santa Pod and Elvington but just to watch.Wouldnt mind giving mine a run when i get it back,not to compete but just to see what she will do,dont want to kill her on the strip,but cant wait to unleash her on the road.

HighOctaneNOSUser
12-17-2004, 03:00 PM
Why are you quoting yourself?

SkylineUSA
12-17-2004, 03:15 PM
Why are you quoting yourself?

Do you have some helpfull insight about the car in question?

Since you're only 14, I doubt that. Go play with the other kids please, grown ups are talking here.

HighOctaneNOSUser
12-17-2004, 03:26 PM
Do you have a problem with my being here or what? If you have nothing better to do then discriminate others from any group, including age, then obviously I'm not the one that belongs with the other kiddies. Why don't you get the hell off my case? Is there a mental disability that makes you bother other people rather than mind your own business.

My question was not about the car, but about the post itself. I asked a question. I am waiting for an answer. I didn't ask for your input, nor did I need it.

And I'm 13, (inappropriate comment removed).

English R33
12-17-2004, 03:26 PM
Dont know about reading but go to Billing at Northampton,the japanese auto ext. and jap show near Bristol.Go to Santa Pod and Elvington but just to watch.Wouldnt mind giving mine a run when i get it back,not to compete but just to see what she will do,dont want to kill her on the strip,but cant wait to unleash her on the road.



Where is the meet at Reading,I didn"t know about that one

SkylineUSA
12-17-2004, 03:27 PM
Dont know about reading but go to Billing at Northampton,the japanese auto ext. and jap show near Bristol.Go to Santa Pod and Elvington but just to watch.Wouldnt mind giving mine a run when i get it back,not to compete but just to see what she will do,dont want to kill her on the strip,but cant wait to unleash her on the road.

I hope to have mine completed by the summer, and go to Santa Pod. I went to TOTB last year, that was a joke. Not the cars, the event itself. Bristol, are you refering to Japfest? I liked Japfest.

I would love to see what you car runs, taking a guess high 10s if you really get on it, but like you, I treat my GTR with respect, since parts are kind of expensive:)

SkylineUSA
12-17-2004, 03:33 PM
Where is the meet at Reading,I didn"t know about that one

Its posted on www.gtr.co.uk site in the Meeting Section. They had the last one on the 14th. They try to do one evey month, normally about 30-40 skylines, from what I hear.

We have not gone yet, but I have been working on mine for the last few months. We are hopng to go to the next meet. I do know some of the guys that go there, and they are very informative about all aspects of the Skylines.

SkylineUSA
12-17-2004, 03:48 PM
And I'm 13

Cool

English R33
12-17-2004, 03:49 PM
I hope to have mine completed by the summer, and go to Santa Pod. I went to TOTB last year, that was a joke. Not the cars, the event itself. Bristol, are you refering to Japfest? I liked Japfest.

I would love to see what you car runs, taking a guess high 10s if you really get on it, but like you, I treat my GTR with respect, since parts are kind of expensive:)



I did mean japfest,high 10s would be amazing,but only if I could do it in one of the three runs as I think my achilles heel would be the gearbox. Finishing up at work now , thanks for your input, and will see what they say about the injectors,will let you know.The guys have done some pics of the rebuild.

SkylineUSA
12-17-2004, 05:05 PM
I did mean japfest,high 10s would be amazing,but only if I could do it in one of the three runs as I think my achilles heel would be the gearbox. Finishing up at work now , thanks for your input, and will see what they say about the injectors,will let you know.The guys have done some pics of the rebuild.

Once again, you're absolutely right about the tranny. I baby my tranny as well, never do I nail it in 3rd. Have you seen the mismatch in the tranny on the number 3 gear, its like what the hell was Nissan thinking?

Would love to see pics of the car. Please post them when you get a chance.

Nice talkin to ya.

Sorry about the neighbours kids, they tend to be a pain in this part of the internet.

rev210
12-18-2004, 10:15 PM
The 550 injectors will cover the output of the GT-SS turbo's easily. The adjustable HKS fuel reg means the fuel pressure can be raised to give the injectors more legs.

The GT-SS turbo's are great for response, somewhere between the old HKS 2530 and 2510. With the 2.8 kit they would be on full boost at less than 3,000rpm.

SkylineUSA
12-19-2004, 01:38 AM
The 550 injectors will cover the output of the GT-SS turbo's easily. The adjustable HKS fuel reg means the fuel pressure can be raised to give the injectors more legs.

The GT-SS turbo's are great for response, somewhere between the old HKS 2530 and 2510. With the 2.8 kit they would be on full boost at less than 3,000rpm.

rev210,

Rule of thumb, from what I have learned over the years, 1cc = 1hp when it comes to injectors. So, that means the 550 should be good for 550hp.

I know the GT-SS if they are set up right can put out 550hp, and that is with the stock displacement, now you add the extra displacement, the engine is going to need that fuel from some where. If I am way off base, please let me know, but by my calculations, I would go for at least 600s, or better yet 720s.

English R33
12-20-2004, 02:32 PM
rev210,

Rule of thumb, from what I have learned over the years, 1cc = 1hp when it comes to injectors. So, that means the 550 should be good for 550hp.

I know the GT-SS if they are set up right can put out 550hp, and that is with the stock displacement, now you add the extra displacement, the engine is going to need that fuel from some where. If I am way off base, please let me know, but by my calculations, I would go for at least 600s, or better yet 720s.


Asked about the injectors and the guys assure me they will be ok for my current set up,they will not run out of steam,with the GT-SS"s which will be set at 1.2 bar.But should I change for larger turbos they would then need to be changed

English R33
12-20-2004, 02:50 PM
The 550 injectors will cover the output of the GT-SS turbo's easily. The adjustable HKS fuel reg means the fuel pressure can be raised to give the injectors more legs.

The GT-SS turbo's are great for response, somewhere between the old HKS 2530 and 2510. With the 2.8 kit they would be on full boost at less than 3,000rpm.

Do you know of a skyline running the GT-SS"s with the stroker kit.It is interesting that you put they will be on full boost by 3000 rpm.This is the target I have tried for ,ie faster response.

SkylineUSA
12-20-2004, 05:17 PM
Asked about the injectors and the guys assure me they will be ok for my current set up,they will not run out of steam,with the GT-SS"s which will be set at 1.2 bar.But should I change for larger turbos they would then need to be changed

Cool,

When you get her back, post those pics. You did say that you are going for a dyno tune, I would love to also see the dyno chart if at possible.

Cheers,
Tony

English R33
12-21-2004, 04:08 AM
Cool,

When you get her back, post those pics. You did say that you are going for a dyno tune, I would love to also see the dyno chart if at possible.

Cheers,
Tony



They have done some pics of the rebuild,when I get her back i will send some pics.It is getting mapped after 1000mls will let you see the results,it should be interesting to see the torque figures.Think I get her back about the 10th so it will be the end of Jan when shes run in and mapped.

Cheers,
Steve

SkylineUSA
12-21-2004, 05:39 AM
I would like to say for the record, English R33 is building The Ultimate Street Skyline, hands down!

English R33
12-22-2004, 04:54 AM
I would like to say for the record, English R33 is building The Ultimate Street Skyline, hands down!


Saw the latest car you got, £700 you say well I dont think you bought it,more like stole it from the guy, the clutch is nearly worth that, nice one:biggrin::biggrin: :

SkylineUSA
12-22-2004, 05:04 PM
:D

When I bought it, I knew nothing about the clutch. The owner really told me nothing about the car, other than it did not run right. So, when I bought it, I had no idea of what the car really had, until I got it home.

It also had some HKS springs, tool kit, and a proper 2 ton jack in the boot.

rev210
12-23-2004, 08:07 AM
rev210,

Rule of thumb, from what I have learned over the years, 1cc = 1hp when it comes to injectors. So, that means the 550 should be good for 550hp.

I know the GT-SS if they are set up right can put out 550hp, and that is with the stock displacement, now you add the extra displacement, the engine is going to need that fuel from some where. If I am way off base, please let me know, but by my calculations, I would go for at least 600s, or better yet 720s.


Hi,

What fuel pressure is the 1cc = 1hp formula applied to? With a higher than factory base pressure and more aggresive rate on an aftermarket reg like the HKS rising rate you can get quite alot more fuel supply. Fuel supply vs horsepower is the only equation worth concern, 1cc = 1hp is a very blunt instrument ,discard it if it doesn't have a fuel pressure condition (remember that the factory skyline has a rising rate reg so the fuel pressure condition would therefore be mapped and since we can't rely on all factory regs giving the exact same rise in the pressure curve why bother?).

I hope this helps put to death a rather dangerous myth.

Cheers

Dave

SkylineUSA
12-24-2004, 09:21 AM
Hi,

What fuel pressure is the 1cc = 1hp formula applied to? With a higher than factory base pressure and more aggresive rate on an aftermarket reg like the HKS rising rate you can get quite alot more fuel supply. Fuel supply vs horsepower is the only equation worth concern, 1cc = 1hp is a very blunt instrument ,discard it if it doesn't have a fuel pressure condition (remember that the factory skyline has a rising rate reg so the fuel pressure condition would therefore be mapped and since we can't rely on all factory regs giving the exact same rise in the pressure curve why bother?).

I hope this helps put to death a rather dangerous myth.

Cheers

Dave

You are totally right about the pressure. Do you know what the factory pressure at idel is for the gtr? My Mustang runs around 38-40lbs.

I do not have a fuel pressure gauge on my GTR, do you have one on yours? If so, what are you running under boost? I am very curious.

The 1cc-1hp has been just a basic guide when dealling with injectors. Since you did bring up the pressure part into the equation, I will not make that mistake again. :)

rev210
12-27-2004, 02:43 AM
Someone elses idea of a basic injector size calculation....To convert cc's to lbs/hr divide the rated cc's by 10.5
450cc / 10.5 = 42.85 lbs/hr or rounding up a 43lb injector.
To convert lbs/hr to cc's multiply the rated lbs/hr by 10.5
26lb * 10.5 = 273 cc/min injector.

Brake Specific Fuel Consumption
Locating information about stock injector flow rates can sometime be quite difficult. If you canít find your carís injector size you can get a good idea of the injector flow rate using your carís factory horsepower rating. To do this calculation you will need to determine your Brake Specific Fuel Consumption (B.S.F.C.). The B.S.F.C. is the number of pounds of fuel it takes to make 1 horsepower for 1 hour.

The B.S.F.C. values very from engine to engine depending on its efficiency. The more efficient the engine the lower the B.S.F.C. value, which translates into needing less fuel to make 1 horsepower for 1 hour. This changes for forced inducted applications as the extra fuel is used to cool the combustion chamber helping to prevent detonation. Here are some basic B.S.F.C. values.

Low to medium performance = .50
Performance engine with head work = .45
Performance engine with expert head work = .40 - .45


Supercharged and turbocharged engines = .55 - .60

Injector Duty Cycle
An injectors duty cycle defines how long the injector stays open. Injectors are always rated at 100% duty cycle so, a 26lb injector will put out 26lb's of fuel under 100% duty cycle. You never want to run your injectors above .85 or 85%. Anything higher puts you at risk of the injectors locking up. Choose an injector that puts out your desired lbs/hr at an 85% duty cycle rather than one at 100% duty cycle. If there isnít an exact match you can raise your fuel pressure, which makes the injector act like a larger one but this trick is only good if you need a few extra lbs/hr.

Now that you have determined your B.S.F.C. and duty cycle it's time to calculate what your stock injector is rated at.

Here is the formula:
( H * B ) / ( C * D ) = estimated injector size.
H = horsepower
B = B.S.F.C.
C = number of cylinders
D = duty cycle

This is what it should look like for a Saturn.
( H * B ) / ( C * D ) = estimated injector size.
124 * .50 / 4 * .80


62 / 3.2 = 19.375 lbs per hour.


If youíve installed too large of an injector and your car exhibits erratic idle during cold start or stumbling after it is warm you can attempt to remedy this by lowering the fuel pressure. But beware if you lower the fuel pressure to much it will effect your fuel injectors spray pattern so be careful of how much you lower it.

Injector Upgrade
If you want to upgrade your stock 19lb injectors by 10% but your not sure what the new flow rating will be simply multiply the injectorís lbs/hr rating by .10 then add the original lbs/hr rating of the injector. Example:
19 * .10 = 1.9 + 19 = 20.9 or a 21lb injector.
So this means we can upgrade to a 21 lb injector with no problem.

Injector Flow Rate based on Pressure Changes
To calculate an injectorís flow rate at a new desired fuel pressure you will need a calculator that has a Square Root function. Now this one can get a little tricky but pay close attention and this can help you out tremendously. Most of the injectors on the market today are rated at 43.5 psi. So, when you say you have a 19lb injector what you are saying is that your injector puts out 19lbs of fuel per hour at 43.5 psi of fuel pressure. So, how do we find out what our new desired fuel pressure going to be?


Here's an example:
Lets say we want to up the factory fuel pressure to 55psi. You will need to know the following information lbs/hr of the injectors you currently using (19lbs), original fuel pressure (43.5psi), and the new fuel pressure 55psi.

Here is the formula:
The square root of x multiplied by z divided by the square root of y = new injector flow rate

Where:
X = new fuel pressure
Y = original fuel pressure
Z = lbs per hour

First, find the square root of the new and original fuel pressure.
New fuel pressure: square root of 55 = 7.416
Original fuel pressure: square root of 43.5 = 6.595
Then divide the new fuel pressure square root sum by the original.
7.416 / 6.595 = 1.124
Then multiply this total by the size of the injector. In this case we are using the 19lb injectors.
1.124 * 19 = 21.35


At 55psi the injector now flows 21.35lbs/hr

Injector Flow Rate Chart

30psi
35psi 43.5psi* 45psi
50psi
55psi 60psi

16lb
17lb 19lb 19lb
20lb
21lb 22lb

20lb
22lb 24lb 24lb
26lb
27lb 28lb

22lb
23lb 26lb 26lb
28lb
29lb 30lb

29lb
31lb 35lb 36lb
38lb
39lb 41lb

32lb
35lb 39lb 40lb
42lb
44lb 46lb


*Stock injector size 19lb @ 43.5psi

Injector Size vs. Horsepower
Calculating how much horsepower the injectors can support is relatively straightforward using the following four variables:
Injector size: 26lb in this example
Number of cylinders: 4
Maximum duty cycle: .85
B.S.F.C. .50

Here is the equation:
Q * W * E / R = estimated horsepower for injectors.
26 * 4 * .85 / .50 =176.8 horsepower is what four 26 lb injectors will support.

Q = size of injector
W = cylinders
E = duty cycle
R = B.S.F.C.

***********************************

SkylineUSA
12-27-2004, 03:53 AM
Damn good post! :)

I did the equation at the bottom, came up with 178.8. I love math :) Numbers are your friend.

I did my Stang 30lbs x 8 x .85 / .55 = 371hp, I am take that is at the crank? I have an FMU that will boost the fuel presure to 90lbs, so inturn the injectors will flow enough fuel for 490hp.

So, basically I learned something 1cc does not equal 1hp....Thanks rev for clearing that up.

SkylineUSA
12-27-2004, 04:31 AM
Here is a great injector calculator.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/fiflowcalc.html

SkylineUSA
12-27-2004, 05:05 AM
So, with the given information about the 550cc = 53lbs x 6 x .85 / .55 = 491hp so in order for the 550 to work with the GT-SS turbos, the fuel pressure will need to be turned up to about 60-70 lbs depending on the tune of course. That shouls be in the 575-620hp range.

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