American or Import
86MonteSS
10-17-2004, 07:26 PM
ok.......Pick a basic american and import car......no skylines or vippers i mean every day joe car civics to eclipse.....mustange to camaro any year......now you only have 5k u can buy any mod you want....at the track who would win......... be realistic.....nos a stock honda wont run 12s
drdisque
10-17-2004, 09:40 PM
this question is incredibly vague
but you can easily make an LS1 or 5.0 mustang run 11's for 5k
with a DSM its doable, but would probably break with that much power and no budget left to reinforce.
Automatic Mk 4 supra TT or 300ZX TT its possible if you get bigger turbos cheap and do all the plumbing yourself and get some slicks.
but you can easily make an LS1 or 5.0 mustang run 11's for 5k
with a DSM its doable, but would probably break with that much power and no budget left to reinforce.
Automatic Mk 4 supra TT or 300ZX TT its possible if you get bigger turbos cheap and do all the plumbing yourself and get some slicks.
=OrangeZ=
10-17-2004, 10:33 PM
2.4 cavalier lol
turbo it for 5k and make about 350whp and run 11's
turbo it for 5k and make about 350whp and run 11's
95dxcivic
10-17-2004, 11:35 PM
I think a twin turbo 350z would run mid 12's on 6 psi
95dxcivic
10-17-2004, 11:36 PM
A pre 95 civic hatchback or a crx with an LS/VTEC could run 13's maybe 12's on slicks.
JekylandHyde
10-18-2004, 03:22 PM
I suspect a Cavalier, since it is FWD, would need more than 350 rwhp to make it into the 11s ...
You get an MR2 into the 11s for under $5K and have a very reliable car ... you could also autocross it the next day ;)
You get an MR2 into the 11s for under $5K and have a very reliable car ... you could also autocross it the next day ;)
rydinturbo
10-18-2004, 07:26 PM
a 350whp caveleir will deffently not run 11s r u crazy.my friend got a 95 civic wid 448whp he only had time to run it once so fare did 11s but he jus got a new tranny and his civic is much lighter than a cavlier thank u for telling that bitch who dont know shit about cars the rite answer
MR2Driver
10-18-2004, 09:27 PM
For a budget FWD is out of the question, at higher power levels its harder to get consistant times or decent launches. I say for that budget best bang for buck cars are:
1. Mustang 5.0
2. A, AWD DSM
3. As J&H mentioned, a MR2
Actually, to make the list short, any high displacement domestic or any factory turbo non FF japanese import.
1. Mustang 5.0
2. A, AWD DSM
3. As J&H mentioned, a MR2
Actually, to make the list short, any high displacement domestic or any factory turbo non FF japanese import.
matt11583
10-28-2004, 08:45 PM
how about a 3rd gen camaro how far would 5k take it????/
Mediocrity
10-28-2004, 08:54 PM
for track use I can get a skyline cheap. cheaper than some of the stuff you listed, so by default I claim its legal.
92 Skyline GTS-T, bigger turbo and a bore/stroke. Total could would be like 9700 including car.
92 Skyline GTS-T, bigger turbo and a bore/stroke. Total could would be like 9700 including car.
rydinturbo
10-29-2004, 02:20 PM
it still couldnt beet my friends civic he spent more than that on it tough
Mase
11-03-2004, 04:00 PM
get a z28 and a supercharger
phillyx2000
11-03-2004, 04:23 PM
Camaro or Formula or WS6 or Trans Am
and get a STS Turbo for it for some easy 11's build up some money to build up the motor more to drop me into the 10s or 9s :P
and get a STS Turbo for it for some easy 11's build up some money to build up the motor more to drop me into the 10s or 9s :P
rydinturbo
11-04-2004, 08:44 PM
easy 11s my ass if u wanna were your pistons out in 4 runs ya if u gonna be runnen 11s gonna need a new stroker kit and ALOT of other shit
rydinturbo
11-04-2004, 08:51 PM
if u want a fast car get a chevy that can fit a big engine get a 454 big block [500hp] [500 torque] and that is all engine get some cams and a blower and shit headers yull be running about 950 hp [BUT IT WILL COST A BILL$$$$$] the egine is about 5000 u could get it for the blowers alot though
Yamahapower
11-14-2004, 05:16 PM
Ls1+ cams, headers gears n20. I think you could do it for 5k.
90redgt
11-15-2004, 09:37 PM
yup, LS1 or 5.0 mustang....if we're not including the price of the car then LS1 before the 5.0....Reason is i believe LS1's are 346cu in.? versus 302 cu in.. You simply can't argue with cubic inches.
90redgt
11-15-2004, 09:42 PM
actually after thinking about it, if we're not including the price of the car.... an '03 or '04 SVT Cobra. Get a pulley for 100-200 dollars. Shazam! here come 11's.!!
mustang67n
11-16-2004, 10:37 PM
actually after thinking about it, if we're not including the price of the car.... an '03 or '04 SVT Cobra. Get a pulley for 100-200 dollars. Shazam! here come 11's.!!
that one sounds good to me
that one sounds good to me
Zgringo
11-20-2004, 09:37 PM
Can I enter my 300Z in here?
Albert
Third car down the list.
http://www.dragtimes.com/Nissan-300ZX-Timeslip-4552.html
Albert
Third car down the list.
http://www.dragtimes.com/Nissan-300ZX-Timeslip-4552.html
rydinturbo
11-21-2004, 11:13 AM
damn what u runnen under the hood of that thing
Zgringo
11-21-2004, 04:56 PM
damn what u runnen under the hood of that thing
Just the little 'ol 6 cylinder engine it came with, with a few extra goodies in and on it.
Just the little 'ol 6 cylinder engine it came with, with a few extra goodies in and on it.
amean94ta
11-23-2004, 04:36 AM
2.4 cavalier lol
turbo it for 5k and make about 350whp and run 11's
you my friend are smoking crack :eek7:
turbo it for 5k and make about 350whp and run 11's
you my friend are smoking crack :eek7:
rydinturbo
11-24-2004, 11:04 AM
Thats What I Said Wtf Is This Guy Talking About Cavoliers Suck 350whp Would Probably Run Low 13 S They Way To Heavy
2of9
11-24-2004, 01:13 PM
DSM
Mods/Money (average..cough cough, prices may be a little off)
Evo3 Turbo: $500
3.5" catback: $250
Boost Controller: $75
Fuel Injectors: $300
Fuel Regulators: $500
man...$5000..i already used 1600 bucks used...
AEM adjustable cam gears: $350
High Performance Radiator: $200
Forged Pistons: $1500
Metal Head Gasket: $450
Port & Polished Turbo Kit: $500
and i think ill be runnin at least mid-11s with street tires...i think!
Mods/Money (average..cough cough, prices may be a little off)
Evo3 Turbo: $500
3.5" catback: $250
Boost Controller: $75
Fuel Injectors: $300
Fuel Regulators: $500
man...$5000..i already used 1600 bucks used...
AEM adjustable cam gears: $350
High Performance Radiator: $200
Forged Pistons: $1500
Metal Head Gasket: $450
Port & Polished Turbo Kit: $500
and i think ill be runnin at least mid-11s with street tires...i think!
fredjacksonsan
11-24-2004, 01:46 PM
How about a 1970 dodge Dart 2dr with a 440? I think you could build that for under 5K.
SLAYTANIC_1134
11-24-2004, 02:13 PM
Any kind of budget racer needs to be a V8. Imports are just not strong enough. They need reinforcement in almost every area. As was said before, the cheapest way to go would be a supercharged (no turbo lag) v8 whether it be a camaro, mustang, firebird, etc... a/t w/ 2500 stall converter, cam, some head work, DOT street slicks, and some gears. You will blow any "budget" import out of the water and have about a grand left to blow on what ever you like!
JekylandHyde
11-24-2004, 02:39 PM
Any kind of budget racer needs to be a V8. Imports are just not strong enough. They need reinforcement in almost every area.
Really? ... what was I suppose to reinforce?
My 200,200 miles engine (100% original, unopened) has been down the 1/4 mile over 120 times (high 11s/low 12s), been hill climb raced, autocrossed, 20+ dyno pulls, beat on the street and reved well beyond it's 7200 rev limit.
I suppose your "strong" V8's could do that? :rolleyes:
As was said before, the cheapest way to go would be a supercharged (no turbo lag)
Lag? ... drag racing :iceslolan
Do you even know why Top Fuel Dragsters & Funny cars use superchargers instead of turbochargers?
... because turbos are not allowed by the rules because they make too much power. (they were ruled out in the 70s).
There is no lag at the drag strip.
Really? ... what was I suppose to reinforce?
My 200,200 miles engine (100% original, unopened) has been down the 1/4 mile over 120 times (high 11s/low 12s), been hill climb raced, autocrossed, 20+ dyno pulls, beat on the street and reved well beyond it's 7200 rev limit.
I suppose your "strong" V8's could do that? :rolleyes:
As was said before, the cheapest way to go would be a supercharged (no turbo lag)
Lag? ... drag racing :iceslolan
Do you even know why Top Fuel Dragsters & Funny cars use superchargers instead of turbochargers?
... because turbos are not allowed by the rules because they make too much power. (they were ruled out in the 70s).
There is no lag at the drag strip.
SLAYTANIC_1134
11-24-2004, 04:27 PM
Most imports are unibody cars & with any sort of "real" power a unibody car would end up like a pretzel. Also since most imports are front wheel drive it takes more skill to get a constistant launch, Also a typical half shaft simply cannot handle this kind of power Too much weight & power up front is not a good combo. I don't know what those guys do to Drag FWD imports but they are definately not, "average joe cars". I don't think this guy wants to be a professional drag racer. He just wants a fast car, on a budget. Granted there will be no turbo lag on the strip there will be TL everywhere else. He also wants an everyday driver. (Supercharger = less initial investment, less maintenance, no stupid turbo lag; Turbo charger = $$$ initial investment(especially trying to turbo a N/A engine), more upkeep & know-how. And yes, I suppose they (v8's) could, I think almost any healthy engine should be able to do the kinds of events described above, "120 quarter mile trips, 20+ dyno pulls, etc..." (The 7200 red line is something I wouldn't touch with my v8 but 4 cyliders goin' 7200 rpm... isn't that the same as 3600 in a v8! lol ) I am not a NHRA expert but I do enjoy whippin' the pants off of turboed up imports in my naturally aspirated 68'.
JekylandHyde
11-24-2004, 04:56 PM
I don't know what those guys do to Drag FWD imports but they are definately not, "average joe cars".
There are many street legal imports running 10s ... even FWD ones.
What they lack in power/traction they make up for in weight.
Personally, I would not want a FWD for any kind of racing, but to each their own. I see no reason to take away the successes people with those cars have earned.
Granted there will be no turbo lag on the strip there will be TL everywhere else.
Really? ... wonder where my lag is.
Have you ever ridden in a properly set up turbocharged car?
Do you realize that WRC cars are almost all turbocharged?
Do you really think I would be successfully hill climbing and autocrossing if I had significant lag?
There are many ways to deal with and conteract "lag."
(Supercharger = less initial investment, less maintenance, no stupid turbo lag; Turbo charger = $$$ initial investment(especially trying to turbo a N/A engine).
This is a non-issue if you buy a car that is already turbocharged.
And if you didn't, the cost is way offsey by the greater power potential.
And yes, I suppose they (v8's) could, I think almost any healthy engine should be able to do the kinds of events described above, "120 quarter mile trips, 20+ dyno pulls, etc..."
Show me one V8 that could do all of that with 200,000 miles on it.
I am not a NHRA expert but I do enjoy whippin' the pants off of turboed up imports in my naturally aspirated 68'.
... and you run what ETs?
SLAYTANIC, why so much angst about cars different than yours?
There really is no harm in appreciating cars that are not the same as yours.
Would you bave a happier life if everyone had a '68 Camaro?
... a few years ago I met a guy in a newer Camaro out on the highway.
We played a little bit and we pulled over to talk.
He was running mid-high 11s and I was only in the mid-low 12s at the time.
He said he could tell that he would have problems with me "up top."
Really nice guy and lots of insight.
He asked me about my car and I showed him a thing or two.
He asked to go for a ride, so I gave him one.
I gave him a few straight blasts and then I gave him some real run through some exit ramps.
He was quite impressed.
His words, "I know my car is faster, but it will never be this fun. It will never feel this fast."
... he was a cool guy. He was open minded and had respect for things different than what he had. Guys like him give "domestic drivers" a good name. What do you do?
There are many street legal imports running 10s ... even FWD ones.
What they lack in power/traction they make up for in weight.
Personally, I would not want a FWD for any kind of racing, but to each their own. I see no reason to take away the successes people with those cars have earned.
Granted there will be no turbo lag on the strip there will be TL everywhere else.
Really? ... wonder where my lag is.
Have you ever ridden in a properly set up turbocharged car?
Do you realize that WRC cars are almost all turbocharged?
Do you really think I would be successfully hill climbing and autocrossing if I had significant lag?
There are many ways to deal with and conteract "lag."
(Supercharger = less initial investment, less maintenance, no stupid turbo lag; Turbo charger = $$$ initial investment(especially trying to turbo a N/A engine).
This is a non-issue if you buy a car that is already turbocharged.
And if you didn't, the cost is way offsey by the greater power potential.
And yes, I suppose they (v8's) could, I think almost any healthy engine should be able to do the kinds of events described above, "120 quarter mile trips, 20+ dyno pulls, etc..."
Show me one V8 that could do all of that with 200,000 miles on it.
I am not a NHRA expert but I do enjoy whippin' the pants off of turboed up imports in my naturally aspirated 68'.
... and you run what ETs?
SLAYTANIC, why so much angst about cars different than yours?
There really is no harm in appreciating cars that are not the same as yours.
Would you bave a happier life if everyone had a '68 Camaro?
... a few years ago I met a guy in a newer Camaro out on the highway.
We played a little bit and we pulled over to talk.
He was running mid-high 11s and I was only in the mid-low 12s at the time.
He said he could tell that he would have problems with me "up top."
Really nice guy and lots of insight.
He asked me about my car and I showed him a thing or two.
He asked to go for a ride, so I gave him one.
I gave him a few straight blasts and then I gave him some real run through some exit ramps.
He was quite impressed.
His words, "I know my car is faster, but it will never be this fun. It will never feel this fast."
... he was a cool guy. He was open minded and had respect for things different than what he had. Guys like him give "domestic drivers" a good name. What do you do?
JekylandHyde
11-24-2004, 05:18 PM
... just as another aside.
2 weeks ago I was at an open track at Island Dragway.
There was an older fellow there in a 68/69 Camaro talking to guy in a newer Vette. The Camaro guy was really excited because he trying for his first 11 sec pass.
As it turned out, I raced him next.
Mind you, I had just run 3 back-to-back 11.9s.
He nodded very friendly-like before we rolled up for our burnouts.
As it turned out, I botched my launched and to compound matters I missed 2nd gear .... he destroyed me off the line.
Knowing how fast my car is, and seeing him tear down the track I was sure he got his 11.
I was genuinely happy for him ... as it turned out I went 12.4 and he went 12.02!
We pulled into the pits together and talked about the run. He was really a nice guy and he thought for sure I was going ot take him before we rolled up.
Such is life.
None of this import vs domestic angst.
Just two cool guys enjoying their cars.
2 weeks ago I was at an open track at Island Dragway.
There was an older fellow there in a 68/69 Camaro talking to guy in a newer Vette. The Camaro guy was really excited because he trying for his first 11 sec pass.
As it turned out, I raced him next.
Mind you, I had just run 3 back-to-back 11.9s.
He nodded very friendly-like before we rolled up for our burnouts.
As it turned out, I botched my launched and to compound matters I missed 2nd gear .... he destroyed me off the line.
Knowing how fast my car is, and seeing him tear down the track I was sure he got his 11.
I was genuinely happy for him ... as it turned out I went 12.4 and he went 12.02!
We pulled into the pits together and talked about the run. He was really a nice guy and he thought for sure I was going ot take him before we rolled up.
Such is life.
None of this import vs domestic angst.
Just two cool guys enjoying their cars.
Zgringo
11-24-2004, 06:52 PM
Mr. JekylandHyde know watcha mean. Been there a million times. On the green you never know and hope for the best, and pray that the Drag racing God would allow you a pass just 1 second faster than before.
amean94ta
11-24-2004, 09:42 PM
DSM
Mods/Money (average..cough cough, prices may be a little off)
Evo3 Turbo: $500
3.5" catback: $250
Boost Controller: $75
Fuel Injectors: $300
Fuel Regulators: $500
man...$5000..i already used 1600 bucks used...
AEM adjustable cam gears: $350
High Performance Radiator: $200
Forged Pistons: $1500
Metal Head Gasket: $450
Port & Polished Turbo Kit: $500
and i think ill be runnin at least mid-11s with street tires...i think!
thats great but how many times can they do it before they break?
i do know what i am talking about also i have 13 friends in dsm junkies and attend the dsm show at thompsons with them every year we built my one friends to run 10.80's for 40k but he blows them up every 30 passes or so
Mods/Money (average..cough cough, prices may be a little off)
Evo3 Turbo: $500
3.5" catback: $250
Boost Controller: $75
Fuel Injectors: $300
Fuel Regulators: $500
man...$5000..i already used 1600 bucks used...
AEM adjustable cam gears: $350
High Performance Radiator: $200
Forged Pistons: $1500
Metal Head Gasket: $450
Port & Polished Turbo Kit: $500
and i think ill be runnin at least mid-11s with street tires...i think!
thats great but how many times can they do it before they break?
i do know what i am talking about also i have 13 friends in dsm junkies and attend the dsm show at thompsons with them every year we built my one friends to run 10.80's for 40k but he blows them up every 30 passes or so
Zgringo
11-29-2004, 08:11 AM
thats great but how many times can they do it before they break?
i do know what i am talking about also i have 13 friends in dsm junkies and attend the dsm show at thompsons with them every year we built my one friends to run 10.80's for 40k but he blows them up every 30 passes or so
Time for your friend to take a close look at his engine building. 40k for 30 runs is $1,333 a trip down the 1/4. Kinda pricy when you consider lot's of us run the entire season and no break.
Mr.J&K, I love your statement: "None of this import vs domestic angst.
Just two cool guys enjoying their cars."
This is what automobile's is about. The smell of nitro burning, bellows of smoke in the burn out boxes, the high pitch scream of a high reving import engine, the thundering bass of a mountian motor, cars clawing at the sky in wheelies shifts so quick, you can only tell by the change in the engine's sound, then the quite, waiting and wondering who won.
No matter what brand we drive, have the same desire, and that's to win, beat that SOB next to us, and pray to the Racing God that for just one moment in time our engine makes a magical extra 100HP, our tires hook-up like never before, our shifts are perfect and we turn 1/10 second faster than we've ever turned before.
We just want that one moment in time when are cars and us are better than we though they could ever be.
"Just two cool guys enjoying their cars."
Albert
i do know what i am talking about also i have 13 friends in dsm junkies and attend the dsm show at thompsons with them every year we built my one friends to run 10.80's for 40k but he blows them up every 30 passes or so
Time for your friend to take a close look at his engine building. 40k for 30 runs is $1,333 a trip down the 1/4. Kinda pricy when you consider lot's of us run the entire season and no break.
Mr.J&K, I love your statement: "None of this import vs domestic angst.
Just two cool guys enjoying their cars."
This is what automobile's is about. The smell of nitro burning, bellows of smoke in the burn out boxes, the high pitch scream of a high reving import engine, the thundering bass of a mountian motor, cars clawing at the sky in wheelies shifts so quick, you can only tell by the change in the engine's sound, then the quite, waiting and wondering who won.
No matter what brand we drive, have the same desire, and that's to win, beat that SOB next to us, and pray to the Racing God that for just one moment in time our engine makes a magical extra 100HP, our tires hook-up like never before, our shifts are perfect and we turn 1/10 second faster than we've ever turned before.
We just want that one moment in time when are cars and us are better than we though they could ever be.
"Just two cool guys enjoying their cars."
Albert
King Cuda
12-05-2004, 01:03 PM
How about a 1970 dodge Dart 2dr with a 440? I think you could build that for under 5K.
Exactly, your post seems to be the only logical one too considering the 5 grand limit.
America rules.
Exactly, your post seems to be the only logical one too considering the 5 grand limit.
America rules.
Hypsi87
12-06-2004, 10:30 AM
87 Buick turbo-T. that car with k in it would anhilate all of the cars posted in this thread (except for the weird grammerd 454 with cams and bblowers and what not :loser: )
CBFryman
12-11-2004, 05:01 PM
ok.......Pick a basic american and import car......no skylines or vippers i mean every day joe car civics to eclipse.....mustange to camaro any year......now you only have 5k u can buy any mod you want....at the track who would win......... be realistic.....nos a stock honda wont run 12s
i usually dont venture into this forum because im not a huge drag fan. However. you obviously are biast towards domestic. comparin a FWD made for economy 1.6l civic up agianst a made for performance RWD 5.0l Mustang or Comaro the Mustang or Comaro is obviously going to win on such a short budget. when yo uget itno the 15,000 for both your allow for Modifications such as internals and forced induction. and seriously, who is going to have a 5k budget on a honda and spend a large portion of it on performance. However, if you would liek o play these games.
3rd Gen RX-7 Turbo II
Conversion From Sequincial Turbo's to A single Turbo: 2,300
Boost Controller: 120
LSD: 1,100
550CC primary injectors: 350
380CC Secondary Injectors: 290
Fule Rail: 100
Fule Pump: 120
Manual Fule pressure regulator: 80
ECU Performance Programer: 530
Total: 4990
mid-high 300's to the wheels maybe low 400's on full boost and fule pressure to the wheels. on a car that weighs mid-low 2,000's that is pretty quick. easily into the 12's or lower.
or you could do like Redneck383 did.
Datsun 240Z
SR20DET: 3,000-4,500
boost controller: 120
and it will be fast.
or
For a single run?
CRX
Guting it: $0
Engine Rebuild: $500
100 shot of Nitros: $600
2gal 90% Nitro-Methane: $50
Oxygen Injection: $400
WI: $900
ECU modified to let as much fule as needed: $1200
Clutch Made by gods hand to hold this thing togather for at least 1/8 mile: well say $700
Fire Resistany Suit: $150
Crank it on the pre stage and get it going for the first 1/8 mile and coast the rest of the the way after the pistons weld to the cylender walls and the heads blow off through the hood.
i usually dont venture into this forum because im not a huge drag fan. However. you obviously are biast towards domestic. comparin a FWD made for economy 1.6l civic up agianst a made for performance RWD 5.0l Mustang or Comaro the Mustang or Comaro is obviously going to win on such a short budget. when yo uget itno the 15,000 for both your allow for Modifications such as internals and forced induction. and seriously, who is going to have a 5k budget on a honda and spend a large portion of it on performance. However, if you would liek o play these games.
3rd Gen RX-7 Turbo II
Conversion From Sequincial Turbo's to A single Turbo: 2,300
Boost Controller: 120
LSD: 1,100
550CC primary injectors: 350
380CC Secondary Injectors: 290
Fule Rail: 100
Fule Pump: 120
Manual Fule pressure regulator: 80
ECU Performance Programer: 530
Total: 4990
mid-high 300's to the wheels maybe low 400's on full boost and fule pressure to the wheels. on a car that weighs mid-low 2,000's that is pretty quick. easily into the 12's or lower.
or you could do like Redneck383 did.
Datsun 240Z
SR20DET: 3,000-4,500
boost controller: 120
and it will be fast.
or
For a single run?
CRX
Guting it: $0
Engine Rebuild: $500
100 shot of Nitros: $600
2gal 90% Nitro-Methane: $50
Oxygen Injection: $400
WI: $900
ECU modified to let as much fule as needed: $1200
Clutch Made by gods hand to hold this thing togather for at least 1/8 mile: well say $700
Fire Resistany Suit: $150
Crank it on the pre stage and get it going for the first 1/8 mile and coast the rest of the the way after the pistons weld to the cylender walls and the heads blow off through the hood.
HighOctaneNOSUser
12-11-2004, 10:21 PM
Actually, Skyline should be included. Because you can get an R34 GTR used in fair condition for 20k in Japan. A new civic is about the same, maybe less.
Anyway, I am going against you. Skyline R34 GTR.
HKS T51R SPL - 1000 PS Output - 4500
Intercooler
12's or 11s....
Anyway, I am going against you. Skyline R34 GTR.
HKS T51R SPL - 1000 PS Output - 4500
Intercooler
12's or 11s....
86MonteSS
12-31-2004, 02:29 PM
Cb fryman...........yes i am a an american car fan...and i would say a muscle car would win over an import.....the point of this was to have a budget that would be average....not everyone has 20k to spend on there ride.....but import tuners are pretty smart in what the do....im basic give be a big block and a carb and im happy.....i know nothin about turbos or fuel injection rides.....and even with 15k to spend i going to say the american car would win.....there is no replacement for deplacement......you can turbo a v8 just the same as any 4 or 6....take the 4 wheel drive 04 chevy 1/2 ton truck in hot rod mag......he put a turbo on it with 75 shot of no2 and ran a 10.90.......all i wanted to do is hear other ppls views and ideas.......o yea jackleandhyde......my buddys drag car has a 350 in it the motor had over 180k miles on it when it was first built for drag....the car has been racing for over 7 years same motor never blown has turned 7500 rpm on a stock crank and rods....runs low 11s....so i think a v8 could hang
JekylandHyde
12-31-2004, 05:44 PM
86MonteSS, cool to hear about your friend's ride.
What kind of car is it and what work did he do to get his 350 into the low 11s?
What did he do to prepare a 350 for 7500 rpms?
What kind of car is it and what work did he do to get his 350 into the low 11s?
What did he do to prepare a 350 for 7500 rpms?
chevytrucks92
12-31-2004, 10:46 PM
What did he do to prepare a 350 for 7500 rpms?
Well, it doesn't take nearly as much as you might think. In fact, we ran a 406 for two years on a stock cast iron crank (that had been turned .020) and stock 5.4 inch rods, chipping it at 7000 rpms.
Now of course we didnt know at the time it was on stock internals (minus pistons, they were 12.5:1), but nevertheless, that was one stout running engine, and it held together. We just took it to an engine shop to get it overhauled (new rings, bearings, check rods, crank,and pistons), and the owner informed us of what we had, lol. That engine was supposed to be steel crank and rods, and it was bought complete, so we didnt know it didn't have this stuff, lol.
Anyways, a 350 can stand more then a 400 (rpm wise), so it could be possible to turn one at 7500 rpms on stock internals and common to do so with a built engine, but it wouldn't be something I would feel comfortable doing, espeically if it has a good set of heads (which it must to run 11s, unless of course its in a very light weight vehicle).
We have a friend who did race, and he also had a 406 (built), and he chipped his at 8000 rpms. Now he did have some really good luck; he ran the same engine for something like 2 seasons without changing the oil, lol. The ironic thing is, when he did change it, we went to a 1/8th mile track in Clay City, KY, and he blew it up that weekend attempting to run a 1/4 mile pass. He held it the entire 1/4 but blew it up, and the bad thing is, he never got a 1/4 time becuase the track officials didn't have the timing equipment set for the 1/4 (bracket cars don't run the 1/4 at this track, only trophy).
He don't race anymore (sold his car this season I think), but he raced all of last year, and a couple races this season (mostly at 1/8th tracks) and he ran a 406 and chipped it at 8000 rpms, and in the water box, it stayed on 8000 rpms. Now this engine was far from stock, but my point is, its not that hard to get a SBC to turn high rpms. My uncle has a 302 SBC in his race car, and we chip it at 7400 rpms, and in the water box, it too stays on the 7400 rpm chip, and of course the one I drive with the 406 (now with steel crank and rods) gets chipped at 7000 rpms.
Well, it doesn't take nearly as much as you might think. In fact, we ran a 406 for two years on a stock cast iron crank (that had been turned .020) and stock 5.4 inch rods, chipping it at 7000 rpms.
Now of course we didnt know at the time it was on stock internals (minus pistons, they were 12.5:1), but nevertheless, that was one stout running engine, and it held together. We just took it to an engine shop to get it overhauled (new rings, bearings, check rods, crank,and pistons), and the owner informed us of what we had, lol. That engine was supposed to be steel crank and rods, and it was bought complete, so we didnt know it didn't have this stuff, lol.
Anyways, a 350 can stand more then a 400 (rpm wise), so it could be possible to turn one at 7500 rpms on stock internals and common to do so with a built engine, but it wouldn't be something I would feel comfortable doing, espeically if it has a good set of heads (which it must to run 11s, unless of course its in a very light weight vehicle).
We have a friend who did race, and he also had a 406 (built), and he chipped his at 8000 rpms. Now he did have some really good luck; he ran the same engine for something like 2 seasons without changing the oil, lol. The ironic thing is, when he did change it, we went to a 1/8th mile track in Clay City, KY, and he blew it up that weekend attempting to run a 1/4 mile pass. He held it the entire 1/4 but blew it up, and the bad thing is, he never got a 1/4 time becuase the track officials didn't have the timing equipment set for the 1/4 (bracket cars don't run the 1/4 at this track, only trophy).
He don't race anymore (sold his car this season I think), but he raced all of last year, and a couple races this season (mostly at 1/8th tracks) and he ran a 406 and chipped it at 8000 rpms, and in the water box, it stayed on 8000 rpms. Now this engine was far from stock, but my point is, its not that hard to get a SBC to turn high rpms. My uncle has a 302 SBC in his race car, and we chip it at 7400 rpms, and in the water box, it too stays on the 7400 rpm chip, and of course the one I drive with the 406 (now with steel crank and rods) gets chipped at 7000 rpms.
86MonteSS
01-01-2005, 01:25 PM
your pretty close chevytruck.....the ride is an '85 regal......4.56 rear end....12.5:1 pistons...500 solid cam...96 gm late model vortec heads w/ 2.02 valves and shaved to 58cc...car is at 2500 pounds...hitting 7500 the few times it as was by mistake car didnt have front brakes so he would do a rolling burn out and just got away from him with the rpms....he does cross the line at 7000....but the rods and crank are stock...the rpms at the end of the track well be a little higher next season since he just got a ford 9 inch with 4.71 gear...low 11s has broken the tiny 7.5 10 bolt 4 times an axel on both sides until he got stronger ones and then he striped the teeth of the ring and pinion gear twice....fastest e.t. 11.04 @ 120mph
nova68
01-01-2005, 09:29 PM
for 5 k you can build a screaming stroker motor to put in and old pos muscle car
chevytrucks92
01-01-2005, 09:45 PM
your pretty close chevytruck.....the ride is an '85 regal......4.56 rear end....12.5:1 pistons...500 solid cam...96 gm late model vortec heads w/ 2.02 valves and shaved to 58cc...car is at 2500 pounds...hitting 7500 the few times it as was by mistake car didnt have front brakes so he would do a rolling burn out and just got away from him with the rpms....he does cross the line at 7000....but the rods and crank are stock...the rpms at the end of the track well be a little higher next season since he just got a ford 9 inch with 4.71 gear...low 11s has broken the tiny 7.5 10 bolt 4 times an axel on both sides until he got stronger ones and then he striped the teeth of the ring and pinion gear twice....fastest e.t. 11.04 @ 120mph
I see. You should suggest to your friend to change valve springs on his engine before running it again. Valve springs are the cause of major engine failure most of the time, lol, and they really are a relatively inexpensive fix (K-Motion, the best springs, are like $300 or so).
Anyways, good luck with it.
I see. You should suggest to your friend to change valve springs on his engine before running it again. Valve springs are the cause of major engine failure most of the time, lol, and they really are a relatively inexpensive fix (K-Motion, the best springs, are like $300 or so).
Anyways, good luck with it.
86MonteSS
01-01-2005, 11:55 PM
not sure what kinda springs are on it....the heads were bought how they are....they came off an 1/8 mile dragster.....they have been ran for 3 seasons on his car..... unknown how long on the dragster
Zgringo
01-03-2005, 01:24 AM
Mr. Chevtrucks92, super advice. Glad to see your dialing in alittle better. I just broke my own record last week.
chevytrucks92
01-03-2005, 11:04 PM
not sure what kinda springs are on it....the heads were bought how they are....they came off an 1/8 mile dragster.....they have been ran for 3 seasons on his car..... unknown how long on the dragster
Well, if it were my engine, I would def. change the valve springs before it the engine ever turned over again. Also, I'd have the valves checked (make sure none are bent), valve seats, valve guides, and have air flow checked.
Three years is along time to go without doing all of what I said, and if your friend isn't careful, he'll wind up having a valve spring fail, and cuase a piston to get into a valve(s) and ruin a good engine. Most of the time when a piston gets into a valve (because of a valve spring) the valve winds up broke, and shoved through the heads, lol, a piston is destroyed, and a cylinder wall is busted.
We have new springs and all of what I said above checked after every year (exception for this year, becuase the engine in the car is brand new, and only has maybe 12 weekends on it this year.). Now next year, I'll probably swap engines to another 406 we have that has just been freshley overhauled (even has a new intake). I think all it needs is lifters and a carb and it would be complete, and then have the heads on the engine in the car freshened, since the rest of the engine is practically brand new.
Well, if it were my engine, I would def. change the valve springs before it the engine ever turned over again. Also, I'd have the valves checked (make sure none are bent), valve seats, valve guides, and have air flow checked.
Three years is along time to go without doing all of what I said, and if your friend isn't careful, he'll wind up having a valve spring fail, and cuase a piston to get into a valve(s) and ruin a good engine. Most of the time when a piston gets into a valve (because of a valve spring) the valve winds up broke, and shoved through the heads, lol, a piston is destroyed, and a cylinder wall is busted.
We have new springs and all of what I said above checked after every year (exception for this year, becuase the engine in the car is brand new, and only has maybe 12 weekends on it this year.). Now next year, I'll probably swap engines to another 406 we have that has just been freshley overhauled (even has a new intake). I think all it needs is lifters and a carb and it would be complete, and then have the heads on the engine in the car freshened, since the rest of the engine is practically brand new.
chevytrucks92
01-03-2005, 11:09 PM
Mr. Chevtrucks92, super advice. Glad to see your dialing in alittle better. I just broke my own record last week.
Hello Zgringo, good to hear from ya again. Congrats. on beating your personal best!
I really should change my sig, my season was over the first weekend of November lol. Finished 3rd place though, lol, so I guess I finished on a good note!
This was my first season of driving. I ran 10 races, had 1 win, and 2 third places. I was pretty happy about it. Most people that start bracket racing take 3 or 4 races before they win a round (most don't start in the top class either), I won my first 2 rounds.
Hello Zgringo, good to hear from ya again. Congrats. on beating your personal best!
I really should change my sig, my season was over the first weekend of November lol. Finished 3rd place though, lol, so I guess I finished on a good note!
This was my first season of driving. I ran 10 races, had 1 win, and 2 third places. I was pretty happy about it. Most people that start bracket racing take 3 or 4 races before they win a round (most don't start in the top class either), I won my first 2 rounds.
86MonteSS
01-04-2005, 12:08 AM
well no need for this season he is planning on buying some type of new heads i think world product but not sure....but they will be aluminum... and have 2.08 intake and bigger runners that the vortecs
TunerAdept
02-03-2005, 03:57 AM
A 1992 30th anniversary camaro with the first LT1 350 v8, with the LT4 conversion kit taking it to 425rwhp, then stacking a vortech supercharger on that will pull anout 600rwhp all barely under 5k if you install it yourself. friend did it, ran 10.62 1/4
FormulaLT1
02-03-2005, 05:09 PM
The LT1 wasn't added to F-body's til 93.
dampachi
02-03-2005, 08:03 PM
$5,000 will make an 03/04 cobra fly. $200 and you're in the 11s...
SpeedDemon101
02-04-2005, 02:53 PM
a geo metro (prime example of american performance) with a 400 shot of nitrous. That will take you to a little over 400 whp...Youll go some where quick, i can tell you that. :naughty:
1viadrft
02-04-2005, 04:22 PM
I vote for:
300ZX Twin Turbo
Supra Twin Turbo
RX7 with a 20B
Ultimate Import Drag Cars... hands down. And they can certainly keep up with and annihilate your Drag V8 with less displacement, and less or no pistons!
It would be cheaper to put together an old Domestic though... been around for years and the technology has barely changed. Means less $$$...
300ZX Twin Turbo
Supra Twin Turbo
RX7 with a 20B
Ultimate Import Drag Cars... hands down. And they can certainly keep up with and annihilate your Drag V8 with less displacement, and less or no pistons!
It would be cheaper to put together an old Domestic though... been around for years and the technology has barely changed. Means less $$$...
=OrangeZ=
04-17-2005, 04:59 AM
you my friend are smoking crack :eek7:
haha i dont think you guys even realize what cavalier can even run boosted do you
with 200whp you can get into the 13's as they are a pretty "LIGHT" car no there not heavy at all unless you consider 2600lbs heavy
also with 270whp on stock interals you can get into the mid 12's with slicks its already been done so imagine for a sec if you had around 350whp you could hit the 11's which that has also been done before so no im not smoking crack
just for a good example im well into the 13's and i only have around 220whp
im not smoking crack youve just all been misinformed by all these riced out automatic 2.2 ohv cavaliers that run 17's
so dont underestamate the J
haha i dont think you guys even realize what cavalier can even run boosted do you
with 200whp you can get into the 13's as they are a pretty "LIGHT" car no there not heavy at all unless you consider 2600lbs heavy
also with 270whp on stock interals you can get into the mid 12's with slicks its already been done so imagine for a sec if you had around 350whp you could hit the 11's which that has also been done before so no im not smoking crack
just for a good example im well into the 13's and i only have around 220whp
im not smoking crack youve just all been misinformed by all these riced out automatic 2.2 ohv cavaliers that run 17's
so dont underestamate the J
UnrelentingPain3
04-17-2005, 09:29 PM
1gen eclipse gsx and a turbo upgrade ,fast enough for me
-Jayson-
04-25-2005, 11:07 AM
id buy a rocket car and spend the rest of jet fuel.
CassiesMan
06-03-2005, 02:32 PM
Bussy or ZX-12.
uranium235powered
06-19-2005, 03:58 PM
gutted 240SX, turbo the KA24...& slicks.
timiacobucci
07-27-2005, 09:38 PM
Not sure how old this thread is but I was wondering what some of you guys might think of a few ideas I had when reading this thread.
I am thinking big block ford in a hatch fox body mustang for all out budget et.
It is funny you guys arguing about import vs domestic engine durability and strength. There are a few that are really tough and well made on both sides but most are generally crap. Most of the large companies still can’t top the strength of the independent motors offered in the 50’s and 60’s. Check out the technical data on some of the Studebaker engines sometime if you don’t believe me, they weren’t called million mile engines for nothing.
I really like the 385 series big block ford, it is a seriously underappreciated engine, even in the domestic scene. I argue that a well made early cylinder head big block ford will make more power more reliably than just about anything else you can obtain and build for cheap. With the early head design (pre-smog) nearly 400 hp and 500 ft/lbs of torque stock. And that thing about buzzing your engine to 7500 rpm? In a short stroke 4 cyl that is not much, but how about 1000 rpm in a 483 ci engine on the STOCK CAST NODULAR IRON crankshaft?
http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=85220&messageid=1120494475
Now imagine the abuse a forged steel 429 crank can withstand.
You can buy a whole 69-70 lincoln in a junkyard for next to nothing depending on your haggling skill and where you get it. This will give you a strong early 460 big block and the monster c6 trans and infamous 9in rear differential found in all makes of drag car (even allot of the real fast imports). So there is your entire driveline.
Then you get a shitty junked 80’s hatch mustang with a blown engine and a good body, this can’t cost much at all especially because you don’t even need the engine or any of the drivetrain. Gut it for weight and weld in some ladder bars and some subframe connectors.
Port the heads the right way and tune it good and you can make 500+hp with equal torque and a very broad power band. Spend a bit on a good higher stall converter and drop this all in light fox body with some slicks and you can go high 10’s.
I think that is probably the fastest you will go for the least amount of money. The beauty of this is that you can continue to upgrade as you get more money to keep going faster. With some welding fabrication skills you can back half the car for pretty cheap. This will cost serious $ if you have it done at a speedshop for you though it is needed to reliably go into the 9’s. And this will be a very driveable streetcar. I really can’t imagine any fwd car in the 9’s is going to be real mild mannered on the street, and there is no way in hell you can get there without some serious coin. I don’t know how a 9 sec dsm would be on the street but that would also require a lot of money, if only spent to get the whole driveline not to explode on the launch.
But this is pure et, I would like to build a car like this someday but I am burned out on mustangs and have only ever owned domestic. For the street I think driveability and feel are more important, this is why I really want to get a tsi for my next car. I mean who really needs a 9 sec street car? 10 or 11 will destroy pretty much everything you come up against. And then there is rain. Anyone who has driven a high powered rear drive vehicle in the rain will tell you it gets scary pretty fast.
Awd in the rain? meh. In a test a modified gsx eclipse actually accelerated faster (3.92 sec 0-60 time) in the wet because of the increased tire slippaged that brought the turbo engine into its power band more quickly.
http://www.dsmporn.com/magazines/drivetrain/img0007.htm
Try that in a short wheelbase big block powered fox body.
I am thinking big block ford in a hatch fox body mustang for all out budget et.
It is funny you guys arguing about import vs domestic engine durability and strength. There are a few that are really tough and well made on both sides but most are generally crap. Most of the large companies still can’t top the strength of the independent motors offered in the 50’s and 60’s. Check out the technical data on some of the Studebaker engines sometime if you don’t believe me, they weren’t called million mile engines for nothing.
I really like the 385 series big block ford, it is a seriously underappreciated engine, even in the domestic scene. I argue that a well made early cylinder head big block ford will make more power more reliably than just about anything else you can obtain and build for cheap. With the early head design (pre-smog) nearly 400 hp and 500 ft/lbs of torque stock. And that thing about buzzing your engine to 7500 rpm? In a short stroke 4 cyl that is not much, but how about 1000 rpm in a 483 ci engine on the STOCK CAST NODULAR IRON crankshaft?
http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=85220&messageid=1120494475
Now imagine the abuse a forged steel 429 crank can withstand.
You can buy a whole 69-70 lincoln in a junkyard for next to nothing depending on your haggling skill and where you get it. This will give you a strong early 460 big block and the monster c6 trans and infamous 9in rear differential found in all makes of drag car (even allot of the real fast imports). So there is your entire driveline.
Then you get a shitty junked 80’s hatch mustang with a blown engine and a good body, this can’t cost much at all especially because you don’t even need the engine or any of the drivetrain. Gut it for weight and weld in some ladder bars and some subframe connectors.
Port the heads the right way and tune it good and you can make 500+hp with equal torque and a very broad power band. Spend a bit on a good higher stall converter and drop this all in light fox body with some slicks and you can go high 10’s.
I think that is probably the fastest you will go for the least amount of money. The beauty of this is that you can continue to upgrade as you get more money to keep going faster. With some welding fabrication skills you can back half the car for pretty cheap. This will cost serious $ if you have it done at a speedshop for you though it is needed to reliably go into the 9’s. And this will be a very driveable streetcar. I really can’t imagine any fwd car in the 9’s is going to be real mild mannered on the street, and there is no way in hell you can get there without some serious coin. I don’t know how a 9 sec dsm would be on the street but that would also require a lot of money, if only spent to get the whole driveline not to explode on the launch.
But this is pure et, I would like to build a car like this someday but I am burned out on mustangs and have only ever owned domestic. For the street I think driveability and feel are more important, this is why I really want to get a tsi for my next car. I mean who really needs a 9 sec street car? 10 or 11 will destroy pretty much everything you come up against. And then there is rain. Anyone who has driven a high powered rear drive vehicle in the rain will tell you it gets scary pretty fast.
Awd in the rain? meh. In a test a modified gsx eclipse actually accelerated faster (3.92 sec 0-60 time) in the wet because of the increased tire slippaged that brought the turbo engine into its power band more quickly.
http://www.dsmporn.com/magazines/drivetrain/img0007.htm
Try that in a short wheelbase big block powered fox body.
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