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Giant Killer


3000ways
10-14-2004, 10:38 AM
It must really suck to own very expensive sports car and then one day while driving to work get your ass handed to you by a car that cost half as much as your car. The guy in the Porsche or Ferrari or BMW just ran into a Giant Killer- cars that offer awesome bang for the buck and these cars can routinely smoke cars that cost twice as much. Which of these cars do you think is truly the best Giant Killer? Think about your answer, is the car you choose really a Giant Killer or just a good bargain?

2004 Chevrolet Corvette ZO6

2005 Ford Mustang GT

2004 Ford Mustang SVT Cobra

2004 Ford GT

2004 Dodge Viper SRT-10

2004 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution RS

2005 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution MR

2004 Dodge Neon SRT-4

2004 Subaru Impreza WRX STI

kman10587
10-14-2004, 12:27 PM
I voted for the STi. The SRT-4 isn't that big a deal since most people know about it, and there are faster cars that don't cost that much more. The reason I voted the STi over the SVT Cobra is because the average American (I realize that not everyone voting in this poll is from America) knows that the Mustang is a fast car, but not very many have even heard of the STi. The Evolution is a good giant killer too, but the STi is the better car for drag racing (thanks to a bigger engine) and it's not quite as well-known.

syr74
10-14-2004, 12:45 PM
I voted for the Cobra for a couple reasons. First of all my Ford bias likely influenced me as it influences most folks. ;)

But in honesty. A real 420hp car priced in the mid thirties is incredible. The fact that for about 1000 dollars more you can push that number well over 500hp (think more like 550hp-600hp at the crank) without losing any driveability is unmatched in today's world.

If you are willing to drop another 3-4 grand over that you can have a 800+hp car that runs those numbers on pump gas and has better than stock driveability. And, that is without spray. An 800hp car on pump gas with better than stock driveability for under 40,000 dollars....No other car on that list can make the same claim

The Cobra does have a reputation, but this is largely because it regularly stomps those big money cars. And that only reinforces my choice.

kman10587
10-14-2004, 01:03 PM
Yep, there's no doubt in my mind that the SVT Cobra is a better drag monster than the STi, but just imagine pulling up to a Japanese economy sedan with a big wing and a loud exhaust in your $100,000+ sports car...and losing? There's nothing like it. :)

Polygon
10-14-2004, 01:07 PM
My vote has to go the Evo RS. It is by far one of the best handling cars on the list, it isn't that expensive, and it can me made to go very fast in a straight line for not a lot of money. It was a close second for me with the Cobra. I just don't think that the Viper or the Vette are really monster killers since they are more the monsters around here in the states. I just don't see Ferraris or Porsches or really any nice European sports cars around. Then again I do live in Utah. Not exactly the performance car capitol of the west.

mason_RsX
10-14-2004, 02:21 PM
I see vettes as more of a monster killer, but not the Viper...I personally would take the Evo MR... it bumps up the hp and torque, throws in a 6 speed, better shocks...it looks all around ricer to confuse the dude in the expensive car, and enough go 2 ruin him

Sean_S
10-14-2004, 03:21 PM
Yeah, the GT and rt/10 don't really belong in that list since they both could be considered monsters themselves.

Corvettes are too respected here in the states, so they don't really have that sleeper apeal.

With that being said, I would have to take an MR or the SRT-4. The MR since, despite the racing effects, it still looks like a compact car. As for the SRT-4, well it's a Neon. No one outside real car enthusiasts respect it.

kman10587
10-14-2004, 03:27 PM
Yeah, I think the list needs to be: SRT-4, STi, Evo MR, and SVT Cobra. The 'Vette, Viper, and GT are already high-end, and the Evo RS is unnecessary with the MR on the list (I know it's cheaper and lighter, but the MR is still better).

Pavlo
10-14-2004, 04:30 PM
skylines

kman10587
10-14-2004, 04:33 PM
First of all, almost anyone who sees a Skyline knows how fast it is (and they probably think it's faster than it really is, too). Second of all, Skylines are very rare and expensive, so I'd consider it more of a giant than a giant killer. Third of all, it may be pretty fast, but it's still not as fast as a lot of other cars that cost as much or less than what it does; the Corvette Z06, the Supra Twin Turbo, and the Mustang SVT Cobra, just to name a few.

3kgt8
10-14-2004, 04:37 PM
ok lets not start with the skylines please.

kman10587
10-14-2004, 04:46 PM
I didn't start it this time...and I didn't bash Skylines either. I made three valid points explaining why they aren't giant killers. I could make a bunch more why they aren't even giants, but I'm not in the mood for that argument again.

3kgt8
10-14-2004, 10:23 PM
i agree with you skylines are nice cars but i dont consider them giants either.

Muscletang
10-14-2004, 10:31 PM
I think the new corvette c6 is going to be something you don't mess with. The cost has dropped to $40,000 and it has better performance stats than an 04 zo6. It is still a bit expensive but its a better performance machine that more people can get their hands on.
My vote though has to go to the svt. The thing just begs for mods and responds so well to them its insane.

DinanM3_S2
10-14-2004, 10:36 PM
I'd go with one of the EVO VIIIs. I just read the most recent C&D 10,000hp shootout, and the Vishnu EVO placed 2nd, and cost about the same price as the base price of all its competition (CTS-V, M3) and cheaper then others cars in the test (CL55, RS6). The closest car in that test in price and place was the VW R32, which brings me to my next point.

One car not on that list that I would put there would be the VW R32. This is a less well known car, capable of a hell of a lot. HPA Motorsport's TT R32 is simply amazing. I recently read an article on VWVortex.com from a RSX-S driver that didnt know anything about VWs. He saw what he thought was a basic Golf or GTi and wanted to mess with it. Couple seconds later his concept of reality was shaken.

V8slayer
10-14-2004, 10:53 PM
You can't go past the Evo VIII FQ400.

It beat a Zonda Pagani C12S in a straight line. My jaw was on the floor when I read that report in the Oct edition of CAR.

And I still don't quite understand it. How can a 400bhp car weighing more than 1400kg beat a 550bhp car that only weighs 1250kg? The only explaination is 4wd I guess and a better drive off the start.

kman10587
10-14-2004, 11:05 PM
The AWD helps a ton, and the Evo has much shorter gearing.

Vettribution87
10-14-2004, 11:48 PM
Hmm. Hmmmmmm....Tricky.
Its hard to decide the best giant killer because it depends under what conditions the cars are being compared.
I feel that the Z06 would be a giant killer on a race track but not on the street, where it would be unable to take advantage of its handling.

On a street you simply need to get from one set of lights to the other as quickly as possible. Therefore I think it is a toss-up between the SVT Cobra (Lots and lots of power) and the Evo's / WRX's (AWD quick launch).

nbw
10-14-2004, 11:48 PM
I think all the cars on the list are fairly good cars for there classes. An srt-4 may suprise a few mustangs/camaro and maybe a few vette owners while a mustang/camaro may suprise well.. almost anyone sine they are f'ing muscle cars that live for drag racing. An sti and evo although really quick would do most of the suprising in on the track. Suprising to see a mistubishi sadan keep up with the likes a corvette or a porsche. The viper and ford GT shouldnt suprise anyone though. Everyone knows whats coming when they see those. They will only besuprised to see such a nice car. ;)

youngvr4
10-15-2004, 12:10 AM
i beleive the Z06 vette is the ultimate bang for the buck, with unstopable potential.

Vettribution87
10-15-2004, 12:23 AM
i beleive the Z06 vette is the ultimate bang for the buck, with unstopable potential.
:iagree:

Predictable aren’t I? :naughty:

crayzayjay
10-15-2004, 05:52 AM
3000ways, you've been around long enough to know that a 10 day limit is required for all polls. Read the damn guidelines, people!

Sean_S
10-15-2004, 02:53 PM
One car not on that list that I would put there would be the VW R32. This is a less well known car, capable of a hell of a lot. HPA Motorsport's TT R32 is simply amazing. I recently read an article on VWVortex.com from a RSX-S driver that didnt know anything about VWs. He saw what he thought was a basic Golf or GTi and wanted to mess with it. Couple seconds later his concept of reality was shaken.

I'm going to take it to you on this one, because the R32 is something that I don't fully understand. Nice car, yes, but at 30k (In the US) I can't see the reason to buy it when there are two other cars at that price that bring better bang for buck value. I will admit that it does have the attractive sleeper look to it though. Now mind you, I'm not including things like modibility though. I'm not exactly an expert on Volkswagons.

DinanM3_S2
10-15-2004, 04:07 PM
I'm going to take it to you on this one, because the R32 is something that I don't fully understand. Nice car, yes, but at 30k (In the US) I can't see the reason to buy it when there are two other cars at that price that bring better bang for buck value. I will admit that it does have the attractive sleeper look to it though. Now mind you, I'm not including things like modibility though. I'm not exactly an expert on Volkswagons.

I guess im saying this mostly for its sleeper/tuning capability. When you see an EVO or a Stang, you know what your getting into. Pretty much everyone knows what those cars can do. The R32 us much less well known, few people expect to get destroyed by a Golf/GTi. When most people mention "R32" most people think of the old Skyline, not a new VW. I'd also argue that the R32 has much more potential then the EVO and STi. But yes, stock v stock, the R32 isnt as good as the EVO and STi for racing.

kman10587
10-15-2004, 04:21 PM
Doesn't the R32 use the front-biased 4Motion AWD system, rather than the bad-ass Audi system?

3000ways
10-15-2004, 04:53 PM
Sorry about that, I honestly didn't know about the 10 day limit, must of missed that in the guidelines. The reasoning for adding more expensive cars such as the GT and Viper is due to their performance when compared to cars in their price category and class. Still you guys are right, in most cases these cars are the ones with the targets on their backs. How often will a Viper SRT-10 run into a Lamborghini Gallardo, the answer is not often. In most situations it will be a modded Cobra or EVO trying to slay these mighty 500HP beasts.

Sean_S
10-15-2004, 04:57 PM
I guess im saying this mostly for its sleeper/tuning capability. When you see an EVO or a Stang, you know what your getting into. Pretty much everyone knows what those cars can do. The R32 us much less well known, few people expect to get destroyed by a Golf/GTi. When most people mention "R32" most people think of the old Skyline, not a new VW. I'd also argue that the R32 has much more potential then the EVO and STi. But yes, stock v stock, the R32 isnt as good as the EVO and STi for racing.

That's what I was looking for.

Vettribution
10-19-2004, 05:59 AM
Hmm. Hmmmmmm....Tricky.
Its hard to decide the best giant killer because it depends under what conditions the cars are being compared.
I feel that the Z06 would be a giant killer on a race track but not on the street, where it would be unable to take advantage of its handling.

On a street you simply need to get from one set of lights to the other as quickly as possible. Therefore I think it is a toss-up between the SVT Cobra (Lots and lots of power) and the Evo's / WRX's (AWD quick launch).

Whaaat? The Corvette really is an amazing handling car.. However to think that it doesn't maul the Evo, WRX, and the Cobra off the line.. ?
Alot of people who haven't driven the Z06's don't realize as well as finesse and handling, theres a rumbling, roaring LS6 in there.. Though there isn't AWD, it still catches, and it still runs.

NIce account name by the way, Haha.

FordJunky
10-19-2004, 02:50 PM
the z06 will beat the other three in drag racing but it costs like 20,000 more, and its not alot faster than a cobra, theyre very close but thr cobra costs alot less, therefore the cobra is the better giant killer for that category.

kman10587
10-19-2004, 03:09 PM
Plus, the Cobra can be made a lot faster for a lot cheaper, since it's already supercharged.

SabreKhan
10-19-2004, 05:04 PM
Are we talking straight-line speed here? If so, then the poll is kind of pointless, as most "Giants" are not built for straight-line speed, but more for elegance and road-course agility and speed. Take your Viper or your Mustang out on the road course with the Porsche and see who wins. The STi, the Evos, and the Z06 could compete on the road course as well as the drag strip, so I'd have to vote for one of those. The Evos and the STi could also compete on gravel and mud, for that matter (something that no other car on the list could do). And, since I drive a WRX and the STi mafia would kill me if I didn't (plus the Evo is still a Mitsubishi and a reliability liability), I gotta vote STi.

FordJunky
10-19-2004, 05:11 PM
no were not talking just straight line speed, but u cant have well rounded performance without it. it doesnt matter how well ur car handles if its gutless, in order for a car to be a giant killer it has to handle well, and be fast etc...

Andee_G
10-19-2004, 06:53 PM
um... lotus elise?

Vettribution87
10-19-2004, 07:56 PM
Whaaat? The Corvette really is an amazing handling car.. However to think that it doesn't maul the Evo, WRX, and the Cobra off the line.. ?
Alot of people who haven't driven the Z06's don't realize as well as finesse and handling, theres a rumbling, roaring LS6 in there.. Though there isn't AWD, it still catches, and it still runs.

NIce account name by the way, Haha.

No doubt the Z06 would still be quite a weapon for the straight away, my concerns are on EVO's/WRX's all wheel drive traction and short ratio gears. Its almost as if it were designed specifically for short-range acceleration. Of course this adversely affects top speed meaning that the Z06 can confidently venture onto the highway and take advantage of its tall gears, where as the EVO's/WRX's would become dinner.
Its seems to me that a lot of 4 cyc performance vehicles are very specific to a given purpose. ie A car with rapid acceleration at the price of top end performance OR Top end performance with sluggish acceleration. A V8 performance vehicle such as the Corvette Z06 however can more broadly cover these properties and not have to sacrifice one for the other to such a great extent.

As for the Cobra, I do not have a lot of information on this one.


I voted for the Cobra for a couple reasons. First of all my Ford bias likely influenced me as it influences most folks. ;)

But in honesty. A real 420hp car priced in the mid thirties is incredible. The fact that for about 1000 dollars more you can push that number well over 500hp (think more like 550hp-600hp at the crank) without losing any driveability is unmatched in today's world.

If you are willing to drop another 3-4 grand over that you can have a 800+hp car that runs those numbers on pump gas and has better than stock driveability. And, that is without spray. An 800hp car on pump gas with better than stock driveability for under 40,000 dollars....No other car on that list can make the same claim

The Cobra does have a reputation, but this is largely because it regularly stomps those big money cars. And that only reinforces my choice.

If this quote is accurate then this Cobra should be one hell of a drag daddy. Certainly worthy for my consideration in this analysis if it is true.

I glad you like the account name. I borrowed the name from someone called Vettribution (might have been you :confused: ) I observed on in some forum somewhere (maybe this forum :confused: ) about a year ago. I was worried that one day the origional Vettribution might find out and be very, very pissed. :uhoh:
So I stuck "87" on the end to avoid any trouble.

FordJunky
10-19-2004, 08:33 PM
for the money the cobra is definately the best drage car but its handling isnt on par, wait for the 06 and well see what being a giant killer is all about.

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