anything better about B20b over B18b besides it is a 2 liter?

I am looking at getting some more power out of my car, and I dont have the money for SC or turbo, I dont want to run N2O because I want the power avauilable all the time and not hav to fill up bottles alot and not ruin the engine, I also cant even come close to affording a nice complete CRVTEC swap right now, what I am considering is since I have intake, headers and exhaust, and the b20 is pretty much a bored out b18, UI am going to get the B20b block and put my head onto it, and use my headers, intake manifold, intake, throttle body, ignition and everytghing, the only engine work is I will get the head (deshrouded?) so that the heads bore matches the blocks, and maybe some new rods and pistons for a bit more compression, and I am getting an ACT clutch and haing my LS tranny rebuilt with GSR 3rd and 4th gear(since 1st and 2nd are same anyways) I was thinking about putting the del sol first gear in, since mine is 3.230 and the del sol is like 3.307 I think, but I am sure my first gear will do fine since I already think it does p[lus ill have more power.

But I was wondering if any ofd the parts on the B20b would be better, like is the throittle body a bigger bore?, does the intake manifold flow better?, are the cams better? seeing as it is a biger engine, some parts may make more power than if i put in my stock B18b parts.




and do you think for around 2250 I can do the following

B20b block (im guessing 400-500)
bored to 84.5mm (under 100 bucks, this is less than .020 over isnt it)
probre racing lightweight rods (crvtec.com), dont know price
probe racing pistons, they have the bigger valve reliefs, price- ???
ported and polished head
ACT clutch kit, 451.00
rebuilt trranny with GSR 3rd and 4th, price - ??? (500.00?)

so after I sell my block for maybe 200 bucks, puting it otwards everything else, Ill have almost 950 bucks for the rods, pistons and head work. is it enough, is there any left over?

also one very important question. seeing as I wont be changing to VTEC and wuill be using everything stock besides the block will my LS ECU control this engine setup correctly? and with the new engine can I safely rev any higher? and how can I eliminate fuel cuttoff? or move it higher?

Thanks,

Matt

For the money you would be a hell of a lot better off getting a used B18c swap, (bolt in, plus a wire for the VTEC) or building up your current engine.
The stock B20 only offers a small increase in torque over the B18b, and possibly has less peak hp. And its at the expense of lower redline.
Instead of spending the money on building what is Honda's equivlant of a truck motor, you would be better off building your engine up.

Instead of rods and pistons, buy some new Cams and headers.
Instead of enlarging the combustion chamber for the larger bore, get the head ported and polished.

You will get more performance from building up your B18 then going through the hassel of swaping in a B20.

You would be better off with the B18. The B20 might end up having a little more torque but you can bore/stroke the B18 out to a 2.0 if you really want to and end up having more torque than the B20 just by doing that.

well, isnt boring 81 to 84 too much for the thin walls of the B18b?

also, how come the B20b has such a low redline, is it because it has a very poor rod/stroke ratio or something?

wouldnt with the new pistons and rods, it be able to rev up higher? what if I put in the crank from my engine, would that do anything?


OK< then instead of the swap, what should I spend the 2 grand on

I got the clutch for 500, the tranny is ??? but I want to do it so I have some pull in 4th. Maybe ill just get a GSR tranny but I want my 5th.

so id say I got 1250 bucks,


what should i get

I got headers, intake, exhaust, so what about some high c/r pistons, ported and polished head, and maybe bore and sleeve my engine a bit.

I dont really want to get perfromance cams tho because Ive been told that you gas mileage is so much worse after you do it

is it true?

if it doesnt affect it too much until you put your foot into it, then Ill think about it.

but what kinda power do you think Id get to the wheels with I/4-2-1/E,
P&P head, ummmmm, maybe 10.5:1 or even higher if I can(soem one also told me with higher compression, you get a hotter explosion and some better power form same amoutnt of gas and actually id get better gas mileage.)

without bore or cams, what do you think would be the average HP, and since the cams arent new, the crank and rods arent either, the only thing new would be pistons, do I still have to break it in.

Originally posted by Moppie
For the money you would be a hell of a lot better off getting a used B18c swap, (bolt in, plus a wire for the VTEC) or building up your current engine.

well swapping the B18C1 costs like 3300 + shipping, so after clutch, it is 3800.

now wouldnt a B20 block with port/polished B18 head, high c/r pistons,
and then with all the extra, cams and big bore throttle body have much more power and torque than just a stock B18C?

What exactly are your goals?

Do you want a faster better performing car?
Or do you simply want to do an engine swap to something with similar performance just so that you can say you have a swap?

well, I want more performance, right now I am thinking of ITR or higher compression pistons, port/polish head, the GSR 3rd/4th, the clutch

either way im doing the tranny and clutch, But i was just thinking that with high c/r pistons in a B20 with port and polished head would be more powerful than a B18 with the same, plus, It would be cool to say I have a 2.0 except for when I win then they will tell me it is just because I have a bigger engine, So it will be better to say I got the B18 still.

but do cams affect the gas mileage in a very negative way? and does higher compression help mileage?


and how much power do you think a B18B would give me with Intake, headers, exhaust, tru power pulleys, tru time cam gears, P&P head, ITR pistons?

could i get at the wheels with this setup what I have at the fly right now with I/H/E?

Ok, all the crap you listed will get you at the most an extra 5-7hp if your lucky. Maybe not even that.

An engine makes its power by burning a combination of air and fuel. Basic theory is that the more air and fuel you burn the more power it will make.

So it follows that if really want more power your going to have to burn more fuel, which will affect your gas millage. How much depends on how much more power you want.

A b20 has a horrible rod/stroke ration compared to a B18. Its simply not designed to rev, or to make lots of power.
Neither is a b18b, but since its closely related to a b18c its has more potential than the b20.

Adding cams could easily get you an extra 25hp on thier own. But that much of a gain will have a lumpy idle, and poor economy.

A gain of say 15hp from some milder cams, will retain a good idle, and if your gentle with it ok economy.


But if its performance and economy your after, then you really need to think about a B18c swap. Driven slowy it will give you the economy you want, but when opened up it will give you all the performance you need.


However with only a raised c/r and some p&p on the head of a b18 or a b20 you won't be beating much. In fact for the money you spend on doing it, your likly to get nothing more than a few laughs.

ok, then with P&P head, ITR pistons, mild cams, eam cam gears, aem pulleys, what kinda HP would it get properly tuned?

and what are some good cams that will help a fair amont but still gain some economy.

right now, when I am half of the time hossin it around, then the other half driving normal I get like 23 mpg. once ive had the car fopr lomnger ill be easier on it more often, so with some mild cams andthe res of the work done, could I at leats still get 20mpg driving it easier more times i drive?

and what is a good cam, and the price please? and where are some websites I can lok for this stuff on?

Well mild cams plus everything else well tuned on a dyno, should be making an extra 15 hp. Still well short of a GSR, but you will notice the differnce. Might be able to keep up with SOHC VTEC Civics.

As for where to get them? I have no idea, Im on the other side of the world. But start with a phone book, or performance car mag.

Originally posted by Moppie
Well mild cams plus everything else well tuned on a dyno, should be making an extra 15 hp. Still well short of a GSR, but you will notice the differnce. Might be able to keep up with SOHC VTEC Civics.

I dont know what you are talking about, I am able to beat SOHC vVTEC civics, my friend has a 96 civic EX with intake and wxhaust and I just got I/H/E, so with the extra 15 and the new gears, I will be able to SMOKE a stock SOHC VTEC civic. and maybe even a DOHC VTEC civic stock.

anyways, right now Im sure the 99-00 SI will beat me, but I can ALMOST keep up with a tairus SHO 5 speed with the best driver at our entire school behind the wheel of it. by the time I hit 4th with LS gears he only had abotu 1 car lenght on me. and I knwo that this SHO will obliterate th civic.

anyways, that much money for 15 HP doesnt sem good enough for me. maybe I will jsut get like a zex 55 shot dry kit with a window switch and all the other extras. cheaper, more power, and stock fuel mileage when not spraying.

I would put your money into things like exhuast intake and then work on doing a headswap build up a B18b/GSR engine a good bit of shops around here will do the engine work

another plus side is you will have the stock block #s so if for some reason Smogers get on you about an engine swap you will not have anyproblems

I think thats your best bet doing a Prelude swap is a waste of money and weight

if you keep the B18B/C engine you will beable to use any bolt on turbo kit supercharger kits for GSR or even NOS kits made fo the GSR if you do a B20 swap you will have to get a Prelude kit and then make it fit your car "piping and such" just another pain to add to the list of things you will run into later on down the road

if you really want power don't rush into it make sure you do it right so you only have to do it once



BTW alot of people build the B18 into drag engines so keeping that engine and doing a turbo/SC later might be a good idea

just start saving up for it

Originally posted by jeffie7
I would put your money into things like exhuast intake and then work on doing a headswap build up a B18b/GSR engine a good bit of shops around here will do the engine work

another plus side is you will have the stock block #s so if for some reason Smogers get on you about an engine swap you will not have anyproblems

I think thats your best bet doing a Prelude swap is a waste of money and weight


I never wanted to do a prelude swap, also I said I already have I/H/E.

I think Im just gonna go with the cheapest way for now ( N2O )

Hell yeah man, go with the B20z........ screw B18c1. Seriously....... I hate when everyone gives you opinions on how you shouldn't do this, or not do that...... The B20z only has about 25 less HP then the B18c1.... most of which is easily made up with higher compresion pistons, a better flwoing head, and intake manifold. 2 liters compared to 1.8, bolts right in as well......

Who cares if you don't have VTEC, it's not the greatest thing in the world....

I B20 equipped Teg would stand a hella good chance against a GSR, that torque makes up for the lack of power...... it's the high end that you'll get beat in... but most street races are over before you really hit the high gears anyway......

And this way, you'll have the B20 in and ready, in case you decide to go built CRVTEC or Boosted B20 down the road.

that was my thought, I was gonna fo CRVTEC later on.

Then by all means my friend, go B20 for now, surprise some people, then tear it up once you build your CRVTEC.




:flipa: B18c1

The advantage's of a B20 over a B18 is that obviously ther is more displacement, and more torque, but that's about as far as the advantages go. The downside is that the B20's and B18B's WERE NOT meant to be high performance engines. On all DOHC VTEC blocks are little "squirters" which lubricate the underside of the pistons (which is very nescessary when your at 8000 rpm). The DOHC VTEC blocks are overall just built ALOT stronger from factory. Another thing is that when your doing a VTEC conversion you are basically leaving your reliablity up to the mechanic so it's esentially the shops mechanics vs Honda engineers (whne using a B18C), and i pesonally trust NO ONE more than the engineers at Honda. If you still want to do a B20/VTEC be prepared to run into MANY reliability problem. Nothing beats Japanese Engineering :) .

XrazcerX@hotmail.com

alls I have to say is WHAT???
I know (well, I think I know) that when you change form regular head to a vtec head, you need to plug the oil supply to the head and you run the new line from a plug in the block or something like that, and if I am not wropng, the underside of the piston would be connected to the connecting rod, which is already oiled by like 4 quyarts that are in your oil pan, if normal non vtec engines didnt get oil there, they wouldnt even last more than a mile. what do you mean by the underside of the piston?
and I am sure if you know what you are doing, you could build one that is very reliable.

The DOHC VTEC engines have Oil squiters in the base of the block the spray oil directly onto the bottom of the piston and bore. This provides extra lubrication, since it was determined by the Honda enginers that oil splashed up off the crank was not enough.

By doing a B20/VTEC you still have to run the high rpm to make the hp, but you dont have extra lubrication from the oil squiters.

A B20/VTEC is a great project for someone with lots of money and eginering skill, who can spend the time developing it properly. For someone with your clear lack of experiance and understanding it will be a nightmare, and totaly failure.

Keep it simple and go with a B18c, or simply Turbo your current engine.
You will get simlar performance as a B20VTEC, but with out all the reliablity and build issues.

is the oil squirter timed or anything? like does it onoly squirt oil at a certain time when the piston is at like TDC or some certain position only or is it delivering oil at like a steady flow, like can you run a pressured oil line into a spot on te block and tap a hole on each cylinder and run the line into that?