BMW M3 vs. Audi S4 Quattro vs. Mercedes-Benz C32 AMG

Which would you choose and why?

Excellent comparo. I'd like to take the C32 AMG, but you can't get a conventional manual tranny in it, so M3 it is.

They dont build the C32 AMG any more...

Its now the C55 AMG. And I'd take that, in fact I'd probaply rip your arm off for it. Makes the M3 and the S4 look dull.

They dont build the C32 AMG any more...

Its now the C55 AMG. And I'd take that, in fact I'd probaply rip your arm off for it. Makes the M3 and the S4 look dull.

I have to admit, as much as I love the M3, the engine in the C55 gives it a bit of an edge. But to say that it makes the M3 look dull is a bit of an overstatement, unless by dull you mean not as fast in 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. The M3 and S4 are still the best handling cars in this market. Mercedes AMG cars are incredibly fast, but there famous for distancing the driver from the car. You just dont get the same feeling while driving the C55 that you get from the S4 or the M3. BMW's manual transmission is the most engaging transmission out there, and SMG is the fastest transmission out there (except Ferrari's Sequential). The Benz is also a bit more expensive then the M3. M3 is my choice and always will be. Then again, I'm probably the most biased person on this website...

PS.
Things to come in the realm of BMW M cars... Soon after the E90 is released for 05' a new M3/M4 (nobodys really sure on the name) will have a 400hp V8 based on the new 500hp V10 from the M5. BMW is once again planning on setting the bar in this class. ///M Power Forever

M power is hardcore. They won't even allow an X5 into their range because it not their type of car. They engineer and build some of he best sportscars in the world.

AMG puts big engines and big wheels on stock mercedes. They'll work on anything from SUV's to Station wagons.

If you're in the market for a sportscar, which would you choose?

BTW, the F430's F1 shift is quoted as 0.15s shift time. The SMGII is 0.08s. And the new SMGIII is 20% faster again apparently. Are these figures inaccurate or do you have information I don't?

M power is hardcore. They won't even allow an X5 into their range because it not their type of car. They engineer and build some of he best sportscars in the world.

AMG puts big engines and big wheels on stock mercedes. They'll work on anything from SUV's to Station wagons.

I find that quite offensive. I have just spent £144'959 on the SL that you see below! I think theres a little more to it than wheels and engine. And how is the M devision so different anyway!?! They don't have a car that can touch mine! My standard S600 is faster than an M5 by half a second, and its not ever geared up for performance.

Audi let GmbH tinker with an S6 Avant, and came up with the RS6. So is that crap just because its an avant?

Mercedes AMG cars are incredibly fast, but there famous for distancing the driver from the car.

I think if my car distanced its 612bhp from me, I'd be dead by now...

the S600 also costs £90,000+ brand new.

and about the SL65 AMG.
i've never really understood the reason behind it.

i could just about take the reasoning behind the existance of SL55 AMG alongside the SL600;
similar cars but different executions
but
what about the SL65 AMG?

is it really worth the extra £50,000?

anyway.
back to the thread.

my choice would be the S4.
mainly cos it's got 4 doors.

also because i'm an architect and wouldn't be seen dead with a bmw or a mercedes-benz..... unless of course i've just been hit by one.

I find that quite offensive. I have just spent £144'959 on the SL that you see below! I think theres a little more to it than wheels and engine. And how is the M devision so different anyway!?! They don't have a car that can touch mine! My standard S600 is faster than an M5 by half a second, and its not ever geared up for performance.

You can spend a quarter of a million pounds on a Maybach. That doesn't make it a sportscar. So I fail to see the relevance of the price. As for all that "performance", I care about more than just quarter mile times. Do you honestly believe that any of these AMG cars can handle better than a M3 or M5? The new M5 can do 8min around the ring.


Audi let GmbH tinker with an S6 Avant, and came up with the RS6. So is that crap just because its an avant?

No it's an awesome car especially because it's an Avant. But it's dynamics and aerodynamics makes it flawed if it's trying to be a sportscar. I'm not bagging SUV's or Avants, I just don't consider them as capable sportscars. Neither do M power.


I think if my car distanced its 612bhp from me, I'd be dead by now...

You're not alive because you're connected to the 612bhp. You're alive because Mercedes have about 10,000 electronic components in the car governing everything from traction to breaking.

You can lecture me all you want, however, I doubt that you have the experience with AMG's and M powers that I have gained. When you have spent some time with an SL65, then maybe I'll take your oppinions into account. 0-60 isn't all I care about, I sold a 911 Turbo for my first SL, because I prefered the way it drove and handled. Money is no issue here. I chose the SL purely and simply because I like it, not to say that "mine is better than yours!" If that were the case, I would probably purchased a Ferrari or something.

And BMW is seriously missing out on some market share with a lack of performance Estates and off roaders. I have two big dogs, I like performance cars, so I would choose a car that I can take my dogs out in, and still get pleasure from driving it. I know lots of people in that position. Things like family and lifestyle will ultimatly effect te decision to buy.

PS: A C class has 4 doors... Have you ever diven a 55?

You can lecture me all you want, however, I doubt that you have the experience with AMG's and M powers that I have gained. When you have spent some time with an SL65, then maybe I'll take your oppinions into account. 0-60 isn't all I care about, I sold a 911 Turbo for my first SL, because I prefered the way it drove and handled. Money is no issue here. I chose the SL purely and simply because I like it, not to say that "mine is better than yours!" If that were the case, I would probably purchased a Ferrari or something.


I'm not trying to lecture or offend you. Just expressing my opinion. I'm not a fan of AMG and if that offends you personally, there's nothing I can do. But I'm glad to have someone who's as passionate about cars as you to debate their merits with.

I've driven my E46 M3 almost everyday for the last 2+ years. I've been on a track with it and I love it. I don't have much experience with AMG's. I drove a C32 before I bought the M3. It didn't do much for me compared to the M3. I've always felt the old CLK55 AMG had too much power for its chasis and suspension to handle. It felt twitchy and nervous.


And BMW is seriously missing out on some market share with a lack of performance Estates and off roaders. I have two big dogs, I like performance cars, so I would choose a car that I can take my dogs out in, and still get pleasure from driving it. I know lots of people in that position. Things like family and lifestyle will ultimatly effect te decision to buy.

PS: A C class has 4 doors... Have you ever diven a 55?

BMW has the 4.8is and that's got better performance than the ML55. I'm a young newly married man with no kids. So I love my 2 seat coupes. And how the heck do you fit 2 dogs into your SL?

OK my thoughts..... I instantly say "No way" to a C32 AMG, the quality of Benz's latest products of the last 4 years or so, has been absolutely rubbish, if I'm paying good money for a car, I want to be assured it won't fall to bits.

The Audi and BMW are a notch above in quality and both offer manual boxes, the Audi's main selling point is that it offers AWD and 4 door, but the problem is I find it all a little to civil, BMW's like to be "spanked" (So to speak) and that's a plus.

So I'll take the BMW for the track and the Audi for driving down to the shops.

OK my thoughts..... I instantly say "No way" to a C32 AMG, the quality of Benz's latest products of the last 4 years or so, has been absolutely rubbish, if I'm paying good money for a car, I want to be assured it won't fall to bits.

I hear you, but keep in mind that they've been going through a rather tumultuous merger over the last four years. I'm sure they will make a come-back in the next few years. Even so, it is a bit risky to buy a Benz right now.

Well there has been promises that the quality will improve and the CEO has acknowledged that it has been shite of late. Setting a production target for the C Class was a terrible idea, but I'm hoping that Mercedes will one day be built to a standard rather than a price like they were in the good old days.

BMW has the 4.8is and that's got better performance than the ML55. I'm a young newly married man with no kids. So I love my 2 seat coupes. And how the heck do you fit 2 dogs into your SL?

I know, I own one. Thats for the dogs. Hehe! Check out my profile. You will see the other cars that I have there too. The X5 replaced a much loved RS6, but the RS6 was causing my wife back complaints, so it had to go.

As for the C32 AMG, it was only luke warm. I supose that the new generation C class is so new, that its not really been widely accsesed yet, so for the purposes of this comparo, I'd go for the Audi, as I just prefer the clean cut image. In real terms, I'd still buy the C55. That V8 is sooooo hard to resist. Quality has been vastly improved, and is as good as the new E class. Still not perfect, but a far cry from the earlier C classes.

But that's just it, the M3 didn't need improving. It's taken on all comers and won. It was the best and still is the best. I'm sure it'll survive the C55 in it's time...... until the E90 comes along and opens another unbreachable gap between itself and the wannabe's :D.

The S4 as far as I'm concerned isn't even in the same category. And I thought it was quite strange that the engineers worked so hard so it was have 1 extra KW on the M3. What's the damn point. M power is doing it with a 3.2L L6. So what if you beat it by 1 with a 4.2L V8?

Keep in mind that the Audi has considerably more torque and it doesn't have to rev way up to high to get maximum power. That's the advantage of having higher displacement.

Don't get me wrong. The S4 is a nice car. The engine has its strong points. The quattro system is very practical on normal roads.

But when you put so much effort and emphasis on one extra KW than the M3, it makes you look like pretender. Trying hard to make your car look like a M3 beater but having to resort to a much larger engine to achieve it.

Well, kW/liter is good for bragging rights and all, but it doesn't mean too much in the real world. Torque and grip are just as important, and with it's hearty V8 bolted up to a quattro AWD system, the S4 delivers plenty of both.

people might buy the s4 or the c55 because , this might be a new idea, they like it. i used to own an e36 m3 and it was an excellent car, but i traded it in for a brand new infinit g35 because i liked the infiniti more. in addition, the bmw broke down much more than my recently sold 1999 c-class. the last year that i owned by bmw it broke 3 times in the span of 9 months. i would go w/the c55 b/c it of its engine (no replacement for displacement), its recently redesigned interior/exterior, and the fact that i know i can keep up w/ a bmw m3 and have the added bonus of a backseat.

You got it! I take the Audi over the M3 and 32 AMG simply because of Quattro. I think it speaks for itself. As i've said in other posts, Its not that I don't like the M3, its just that they are so common. When I was still in business, 7 members of the upper management chose M3's in various guises for their company cars. If i'm paying, I would like a little exclusivity. As the Audi and Merc are rarer, then they would be my choice.

As far as reliability goes, I've had minimal problems with Mercedes. I've had head gaskets on 2 porsches go, after 25'000 and 30'000 miles respectively, I've had a 750Li with over 50 electrical gremlins, I've had a Bently that cooked your arse when you turned on the heated seat.

On the other hand, I've owned a 230SL Pagoda since new in 1964, and its had 1 flat tyre, and not started once. And thats 40 years old! And the only problem I've had with a new mercedes, is the ECU on an S500, which I subsiquently wrote off (through no fault of my own, I must add) so It didn't matter anyway.

Meh... i've lost count on how many times this comparo's been done.
In brief, the M3 adheres most closely to what constitutes a sports car, the S4 and C55 are softer in character though both have very grunty engines (esp. C55) and are by no means bad cars. Three very different cars imo.

I cant disagree with that. My oppinion would be that if I wanted a sports car, then I would (and have) purchased a 2 seater, that looks and feels a little more special than a 3 series BMW, with wider arches. Afterall, whod spend £40k on a car that they dont find good looking.

I think that the S4 and C55/32 are good looking saloons. And the only reason I would but one, was if I needed a 4 seater saloon/compact estate.

According to me, most people I've spoken to and most reports I've read, the standard 3 series coupe is a beautiful shape.

The M3 looks very similar you're right. They make subtle changes to make it look more mean and aggressive. So what's wrong with that? If you're trying to improve on something people already like, probably best not to do too much.

And your comment about them being too common, that's one way of putting it. Another way of saying it is it's popular, tested, and proven.

OK my thoughts..... I instantly say "No way" to a C32 AMG, the quality of Benz's latest products of the last 4 years or so, has been absolutely rubbish, if I'm paying good money for a car, I want to be assured it won't fall to bits.

I had a one-on-one with DaimlerChrysler's senior IR team very recently. The company is going to prioritise vehicle quality over profitability over the coming years and is aiming for #1 rank in the JD Power Survey. They wouldnt reveal how much capital they're putting into this "quality offensive", so you can bet your bottom dollar it's very substantial. It remains to be seen whether they'll get to the very top of the survey - i'm doubtful - but they should at least break into the top 10.