Ferrari rules! Porsche = sux0r!
:o







;)

OOHHH, OOHHHH, A FIGHT, A FIGHT!!:eek:


































j/k:D

Yay for Ferrari!!!

You should re post that in the Porsche forum. :D:D

WHAT ARE YOU TALKIN ABOUT!!!


PORSCHE is awesome!!!!


but.. ferrari is better :;



http://www.supercarstats.com/car/exotic-images/modena3.jpg

I couldn't agree with you more. Boring styling, boring styling, boring styling.

The 911 Turbo may be 3mph faster than a 360, but it sure is UGLY, with almost 50 years old styling, the 911 is annoying now. Variety is the spice of life. I like my Ferrari's spicy, and red hot!:)

Well, just because styling has been around 50+ years doesn't mean it's ugly. I mean, a 250 GTO Is still gorgeous.

Of course, the original 911 (and 356) were ugly, and still are:D

I meant the styling of the 911 is basically unchanged, and it sucks. It's getting annoying.

You guys are mostly right, but if Porsche changed it's styling, it wouldn't be a Porsche now would it?

I think Porsche is running on their last body possibilities for the 911.

What's next Porsche?
You'd better call the number on the back of your car (911) or get Ferrari or Pinafarina to design you some new shapes!;)

....or Bertone or Stevens... or the blind armless retard who designed the Aztek, for that matter. Okay, maybe that's going a little too far. But seriously, their styling is so damn bland.

I do like the styling of some of the 80's Porsche 911's, like the 930 and the slantnose. I also liked the whale tail.

I actually like the way the new 996's look. Especially the drop tops.

I HATE the 911 cabrios.. those are UGLY


but I do think the 911 GT2 is very beautiful... not at all bland but a nice 'pocket rocket'...

but when you want a little more than a pocket, look @ Ferrari

Ah crap, looks like I'm outnumbered. Porsche is still great though. I admit that the 911 is getting old but it's called "Tradition". And as what's next for Porsche....:( the Cayenne :( Oh well, The Boxster still has hope.... Right....?

Well, maybe. It's the only porsche model car I have. I think they look really good. Sure, they aren't a blazing little roadster, but they're pretty quick and look pretty good (in their subtlety). But, seriously. Despite their performance, they just look like a beetle. Seriously. And, when you think about it....
Beetle-->356-->early 911------->996 911's
And, on top of that, I really just don't find 928's, 914's, 924's, very attractive at all...944's aren't too bad.

I think Porsche should introduce something new...that's not an SUV. The Carrerra GT is a step in the right direction. It's got good looks (not quite pininfarina, but good:D), but it's just too damn unattainable. They need something a little flashier, maybe between the price range of the 911 and boxter. Something mid-engined, 2-seater, coupe/targa, and with some style...not just a bubble.

Originally posted by enzo@af
Well, maybe. It's the only porsche model car I have. I think they look really good. Sure, they aren't a blazing little roadster, but they're pretty quick and look pretty good (in their subtlety). But, seriously. Despite their performance, they just look like a beetle. Seriously. And, when you think about it....
Beetle-->356-->early 911------->996 911's
And, on top of that, I really just don't find 928's, 914's, 924's, very attractive at all...944's aren't too bad.

I think Porsche should introduce something new...that's not an SUV. The Carrerra GT is a step in the right direction. It's got good looks (not quite pininfarina, but good:D), but it's just too damn unattainable. They need something a little flashier, maybe between the price range of the 911 and boxter. Something mid-engined, 2-seater, coupe/targa, and with some style...not just a bubble.

Enzo that's why they have a Boxster S in the middle of those. lol

That's a good point, but they could have just one "model"...a boxster, boxster J, boxster Q, Boxster RSTLNE for all I care, and it would still be one model, you know? I just think they need to break from the traditional styling they have and produce something (while still distinctly porsche) that looks different, and thus good (good BECAUSE it's not the same thing, over and over and over and over). I mean, look at Ferrari. You can always tell something is Ferrari, but the 360, 550, and F50 don't look alike. The 360 and the 348 look similar, but not quite as similar as a 993 and 996 (or a 356 996, for that matter). Do you see my point? Basically, tradition is important, but too much is a bad thing.

*Disclaimer* I think this doesn't quite say exactly what I want, so take it with a grain of salt...or several grains...maybe even a tablespoon of rock salt.

Originally posted by enzo@af
That's a good point, but they could have just one "model"...a boxster, boxster J, boxster Q, Boxster RSTLNE for all I care, and it would still be one model, you know? I just think they need to break from the traditional styling they have and produce something (while still distinctly porsche) that looks different, and thus good (good BECAUSE it's not the same thing, over and over and over and over). I mean, look at Ferrari. You can always tell something is Ferrari, but the 360, 550, and F50 don't look alike. The 360 and the 348 look similar, but not quite as similar as a 993 and 996 (or a 356 996, for that matter). Do you see my point? Basically, tradition is important, but too much is a bad thing.

*Disclaimer* I think this doesn't quite say exactly what I want, so take it with a grain of salt...or several grains...maybe even a tablespoon of rock salt.

Enzo you like ferrari as I don't and I really don't care about those death traps ;) What keeps Porsche going to the people who buy them the fan of Porsche most like the looks of it cause they selling near 50,000 cars a year. The looks of the Porsche is liked by the Porsche fans and owners. Ok now lets talk about the Great Fait company of ferrari I perfer the look of Porsches over Ferraris but that's in my eyes I can't see for you. If you like the looks of ferraris that's what you like so to a Porsche fan Porsches look like ferraris in your eyes. Read slowly and carefully a few times. I'm not trying to start a war on about what is better just stating a point. :)

I see your point, I just think that a lot of people find them drab because they all look so similar (traditional). I guess different strokes, for different folks, huh?

i like how they look..... and i'd consider buyin one if i had the cash.... but ferrari is still better, heheh

Hey Seb, when did you come back? I like your thinking Enzo, your talking about some thing like a revolutionary Porsche with a 3.0-3.4L Engine (The new 996 has a 3.6 so it doesn't conflict) and a should be traditional rear-engined 2+2 Coupe, Cabrio and turbo. I would want a Turbo cause some people would want a Turbo over a 911 but Some people might want a 911 and not the Model "X" Turb, Porsche is an Acquired taste. As for a name I'm lost maybe the Porsche 711 model No# 9901. Bear with me hear for a second, the 711 Would sound like a detuned or Smaller 911 but bigger than a Boxster the name is kinda gay though being related to 7 eleven Convience stores and the 9901 would be the model code like 964 and 951, I chose that because after the 996, 2000 sounds so, Honda. add another 9 and give it time. after another 50 years you might be seeing a 9996 the 100 year-old 911 model still selling in Hover-space car form. That's just my Opinion but you got a good Idea Enzo, I would have personally said a Entry level model priced at 25K US but that would make it seem like Porsche is Desperate, like Jaguar.I would mind seeing a future Porsche 9.11 the "Econo Porsche", Four door hatchbck with a 1.7L Flat 3.

Ferrari???!!!

Well, if you had the money I guess buying one is OK. But where do you drive it? It's such a specialty vehicle that no one does!!! The few that do you guys should talk to. They don't drive them daily as to keep them out of the shop. Too complicated and not made to be driven to work and the grocery store everyday.
Porsche is more of the everyday type driving vehicle. Priced lower and made for all kinds of weather.

I'd like a McLaren or Lambo also...but they would only sit in the garage! Give me a vehicle I can drive to work or across the country on vacation.

http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/727152928fun.jpg

Tony Montana buys that porsche you have, in Scarface :D i forget what it's called

Either a 928 GTS or S4.

I don't know what they drive but it is probably one of the later models. Mine is a second production year (1979)

well the movie was made in like 1983

im peeking cautiously in here.
if porsche sux, why are there so many on the road? b/c they can be driven in tons of driving conditions? vs the ferrari that only comes out on the nicest of nice days?
they are boring b/c you see them. ferraris are like vipers. if you dont see it, it always looks good if it is exotic.
i would also rather have a car that can be driven daily.
i guess that is why my friend sold his 94 ferrari targa for a turbo porsche... nice white one w/ the whale tail and some big chrome 18in 3 pc turbo wheels... and it is hella faster than a ferrari. and more comfy. and it wont cry if it sees the rain. and neither will the owner. you can own both. one to look at (starts w/ an f)and one to thrash on and drive all the time b/c you can (p car here...)

I'm going to try to tip-toe around this and not start a war myself.
MOST Porsche models can be driven year round in all kinds of weather. It's an exotic but a working type of automobile that is made to be driven to the store for groceries or on the autobahn at 160 KPH.
Ferrari made several automobile models that could take the daily driving with only regular maintainance. But many vehicles produced were made to just go fast. That kind of vehicle needs constant maintainance that most people don't provide.

Personally, I love most vehicles that Europe puts out. I've had the privilege and pleasure to get behind the wheel of many machines. But, like everyone else, I have my favorites and non-favorites. Since I live in the middle of the U.S. I need a vehicle that can be driven in 96 degree summer heat or -15 below zero winters. Porsches have been my choice from my mechanical experiences.

But I would love to have a Lamborgini, Ferrari or Lotus in my garage. I'm leaving out some vintage speed demons like a Cobra 289 FIA or McLaren but where to drive them? My dream car would be a Ford/Shelby Daytona coupe...but it's a dream. The closest I've gotten to having one is 1/20 scale on my desk. I like the body lines. Nothing wrong with Ferrari, but I prefer the pre-80's vehicles. The smooth lines really say something about the cars. Some of this new stuff (last 10 years) is looking like everyone else's stuff.
http://communities.msn.com/Porsche928Driver/files/928fun.jpg

Originally posted by tanjwarrior
or on the autobahn at 160 KPH.


or 160mph :D

LOL,

"I'll just go get some Milk from the corner store, be back in 5 min!"
"But's it's 20 Miles away!"
"In my car it's more like 5"

who goes 20 miles for milk?! :D

there's a plaza like every couple blocks on any street that doesn't have houses on it, hehe

anyone handicapping the odds on them making this?

Originally posted by jay@af
anyone handicapping the odds on them making this?

i am.... i'm like 50/50, half of me thinks they're goin to make it and half of me doesn't think so

i dunno...
they have ALOT of deposits, and not small ones from the US alone. there are people that went to dealers and put 50k down on one, and even if they only made a coupla hundred, there are about that many serious inquiries from what i have read...
i think it is a great possibility...
they built the turbo, and came out with a better version...
hell, subaru gave us a wrx, and mitsu will have an evo for us soon, so anything is possible...
but i definitely see it coming out...

Easy Porsche,
I'll back you up! Especially since I'm a multiple Porsche car owner. I've just been sitting back reading all the SPAM being spouted.

I got to drive a Lambo this summer from an old aquantaince. It was fun, nice, the V12 really kicked some serious HP to the blacktop...but I don't think I'd want one in my driveway.

Just out of curiousity, what exotics has anyone driven to have such strong opinions?

1973 Porsche 914
1978 Porsche 924 (still race it)
1984 Porsche 944 (just sold it)
1979 Porsche 928 (a few car show trophies and my daily driver)

Below are cars I've had the chance to get behind the wheel....

?Year? Lambo Contouch (friends)

1973 Jaguar
1976 MGB
1981 Porsche 911SC
Lotus Esprite (spelling?)
Opel GT
Truimph TR7 (what a fit for my 6'3" frame)
Dodge Viper


I can tell you the good and bad points of each from my opinion and from the owners. I'm not listing Corvettes or a Replicar or two or even some of the Asian stuff.

I've driven lots of respectable cars, so i think i have a say, but i don't think i said anything bad about porsche did i? i don't remember anymore

but i've driven:

Dodge Viper
Lamborghini Diablo
couple Porsche 911 carreras
NSX
Ferrari 328 and 308 GTS
also a Ferrari 348

The Diablo was by far the favorite :)

most of these are just neighbours or friends of neighbours, or friends dad's or friends friends cars :D

No, no gang$tar...
I wasn't pointing a finger at you...just covering myself for anyone that's been flaming Porsches. Personally, I like alot of the exotics and would drive em. But, from the practical side, there's only a few that I would consider keeping to drive everyday.

I get in such a hurry typing, the beginning of my last post was supposed to be:
Easy on Porsche!

Damn! got to go...the guy is here to cut down my tree in the front yard...darn tree couldn't take the high winds I've had in my area for the last two days.

lol, it's been really windy here too, the past 2 days

I agree about that porsche is alot more reliable than Ferrari for example...
you could drive a porsche everyday, no problem

plus it won't cost approx. $6000 to replace a clutch, like on a Diablo :D

i'm not sure if that's the right number, but it's alot

Agreed!!!
Heck, it's around $1200 for a clutch in my 928 Porsche, but it's worth it!

Originally posted by tanjwarrior
Agreed!!!
Heck, it's around $1200 for a clutch in my 928 Porsche, but it's worth it!

if it's for your baby, any price is worth it :D

I think it's very harsh to say that "Porsche sucks".. this is the company that has the best racing record of all time. If that sucks, i dont know what you would have to say about other car companies, including a certain Scuderia Ferrari?
if you dont like Porsches, say so, but try to keep it a little intelligent and constructive. i'm sorry, but comments like that are just stupid.

In mine and many peoples' opinions porsche have made some exquisitely beautiful cars as well as some duffers. but then so have ferrari, look at the 400GT. The Testarossa has aged badly, and even the F50, 550 and 360 have all been called ugly by some Ferrari fanatics. That doesnt say much about their styling, does it. I think they look pretty good, but not as perfect as you would like to think.
Look at Porsche's recent GT concept. Now you cannot say that this car doesnt look anything other than amazing. so no thank you, I think porsche will continue to do their own designing for the future. and quite frankly, im glad. we wouldnt want all cars looking the same now, would we?

cheers
jay

Nowcrayzayjay wrote:
Look at Porsche's recent GT concept. Now you cannot say that this car doesnt look anything other than amazing. so no thank you, I think porsche will continue to do their own designing for the future. and quite frankly, im glad. we wouldnt want all cars looking the same now, would we?

Now that statement I can't argue with. I'm over 40, and the last 15 years has shown that cars are beginning to look alike. As a former mechanic, I could spot a car several blocks away and state the year, brand and model pretty acurately. Now, it's almost impossible except for certain models that still stand out from the rest. The rest, well, they are looking all the same.
But I agree that each company will hopelfully stand by their orginal designs and trademark car lines. Too bad many of the neat domestics now resemble each other. No more personality to many cars...

This is an issue that really worries me... Recent cars, especially the heavily produced ones are all begining to look the same.. Everything looks like a Eurobox, or a Japmobile, and quite frankly I dont like it one bit :( :( ... even some italian models no longer have the special "personality" that is such an essential ingredient in their recipe..
the 911 lost a lot of character during the transition from 993 to 996.. I almost cried when i saw spy shots of the 996, i prayed it was the usual camouflage to hide what the car would really look like.. although the look has grown on me, it still doesnt compare to the truly delightful 993.. the 996 Turbo looks so insipid compared to the 993 Turbo.
now THAT is one "horny" looking car!!

cheers
jay

Yeah,
I started saying the same thing about a decade ago or so. Today, they do look alike.
But the companies must make a profit and this is what the public likes and wants. The auto companies go to great pains to style and design cars that the masses find appealing. I wish I could get into one of those groups chosen to view a new car during styling tests. I miss some of the rough edges that defined that vehicle from the others.
If we think it's getting bad now, what another ten years. So far, the front and rear grilles, badges and logos are the only identifying markings for some.
But getting back on track for this forum of "Porsche Sucks", I will disagree with many. The Porsche company has provided aerodynamically superior vehicles since 1950. The rounded lines and flowing bodies are the companies trademark. Fast cars with workmanship second to none.
I'm not going to cut down Jags or Ferraris or any other car companies. Each company builds its line of autos to fit into a certain niche of the automotive world. What many fo the upper-echlon companies are building today are outstanding and laying the foundation for future generations. I won't argue that a Ferrari isn't faster than a Porsche. Who cares? I can't drive a Lambo or Ferrari in the Iowa winters! But any of my Porsches, I put snow tires on and off I go!
I definitely won't argue who has the best racecars out on the tracks. Each company fielding in whatever race has some outstanding machines! I'm impressed by the Ford Focus racing team in the FIA rallies. I wasn't paying attention to racing for ages, but I'm getting caught up and Ford has impressed me (I'm not a Ford fan from working on the domestic vehicles for people at a local car dealership). But each season the companies field cars that are untested and must work out the bugs. This work is put into the cars we drive today and tomorrow.
I applaude Porsche and all the other companies for their efforts. But for the everyday working mans driving exotic...give me a Porsche!
http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/3284431979Red928small.jpg

It's a shame that the consumer now decides what a car looks like. All you get is a bland compromise. Whatever happened to bold car design?

I can't remember which one it was, but one of the very famous Italian car designers summed it up perfectly when he said " Who knows more about car design? Me, or the public?" :cool: I think we all know the answer to that one ;)

cheers
jay

Ferrari better then Porsche? Well, If you mean by better that they break down more are slower and do not preform as well sure they are better.

I don't see why you think Porsche sucks. There is a reason the 911 body hasn't changed much. It is so well designed it can last 35 years. Why else do they still sell them today? If nobody wanted them, they would retire it because nobody would buy it. The 911 body is the "design of the century" because it's lasting so long and still going. I can't see how you think any 911 is ugly. Slick, areodynamic looks, and practicle for everyday driving. The body is what gives Porsche outstanding handling. It gives the car high downforce without reducing speed (drag) so the car bites into the road and can take turns and speeds you can't with other cars. The 911 looks like its doing 100+ just standing still and definetly turns heads everywhere it runs. I'm 15 and restoring a 1969 911 Targa, which I love everything about it, and can honestly say there's nothing about the car I don't like.

:)

REPLY:

The other 80's Porsche bodies as you called "ugly" weren't designed by Porsche, they were designed by Audi. As for the Porsche designed 914, It's a beautiful car fully restored:
http://ebaypics.kruseinternational.com/pics/ebaypics/general/silver/8.jpg http://ebaypics.kruseinternational.com/pics/ebaypics/general/silver/10.jpg
If you ask me, looks like Ferrari stole that design and revised it. But for the best value for the buck, get a Porsche. Even the 80s ones. You would be surprised at the performance you would get from a 5,000 dollar porsche. The 914? Thats a mid engine car so just think about its cornering ability.
:)

Figures, the starter of this post, MBTM doesn't even have a car. How does MBTM know porsche sucks if he never drove a car?MBTM doesn't have a Ferrari, or a Porsche. I think MBTM should just just keep his mouth shut unless there's a small possibility MDTM has something constructive to say, or something that actually makes a LITTLE sence.

:) :(
:o :D
;) :p
:cool: :rolleyes:
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:confused: :alien:
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:licker: :smoka:
:silly2: :smoker:
:smoker2: :sun:
:flash: :wave:
:bonghitte :flamer:
:rocket: :biggrin2:
:cry: :cyclops:
:dogpile: :eek2:
:eshooter: :angel:
:hehe: :hehehe:
:apuke: :right:
:spit: :coolguy:
:apoke: :help:
:angryfire :argue:
:aug2: :badass:
:buck :crying:
:cwn27: :huh:
:evillaugh :greenchai
:jump: :bathroom:
:newburn: :monkeypis
:silly: :sleep:
:stormzap: :thinkerg:
:uhoh: :what:
:xelicon: :zx11pisse
:shocked: :lol2:
:toothless :ylsuper

Figures, the starter of this post, MBTM doesn't even have a car. How does MBTM know porsche sucks if he never drove a car?MBTM doesn't have a Ferrari, or a Porsche. I think MBTM should just just keep his mouth shut unless there's a small possibility MDTM has something constructive to say, or something that actually makes a LITTLE sence.

LOL:D
too true.... though u have to say its quite funny when someone is debating about an issue or subject he has no idea about!

cheers
jay

It just gets my goat reading some of the garbage that gets posted in these forums. I don't mind a good flaming match and getting chopped off at the knees. But it seems a good portion of those that say things like, "This sucks..." or "This car is the best ever made!" don't own a car or even drive yet! But they have plenty of models that they have built sitting in their room.
I wish more mechanics, car collectors and enthusiasts were here. Then getting first hand opinions would be welcome and counter some of the press written on cars from books and magazines. Just because a magazine tested a car that can do the 1/4 mile in 11 secs and tops out at 212 MPH, it isn't a great car! What's it like driving daily to and from work? When it rains buckets, how does it perform...even in the snow? After a year, what problems were there and was anything major?
(SIGH.....)
But alas...the armchair experts will dominate the Net...

http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/boot/66/17465720.jpg

I kind of miss my 914....

It was a pain to get in and out of...I'm 6'3" tall. The 4-cyl wasn't exactly a power-house. But the car was fun at speeds above 90 MPH!

I still want to find a 914-6 and modify it for SCCA racing events and auto-crossing. They are beautiful beasts....

Sure Porsche sucks.

Sure Porsche sucks.

uh....sarcastic or stupid comment?

Unlike Ferrari Porsche is not showroom supercar - it could be driven for everyday practical use. Do you know Ferraris with >200K on odometer still alive? Porsche 911 engine was designed to be highly reliable and suitable for endurance racing. LeMans results proved it.

Originally posted by crayzayjay


uh....sarcastic or stupid comment?

I think Sarcastic as there is a post here about why no forum for the 917 which he calls "one of the best cars every produced".

I think Sarcastic as there is a post...

phew!

cheers
jay

It is meant as sarcastis.As an auto enthusiast(sp?),I am pissed that this comes up.I have driven a 928 GTS and was the best driving experience I ever had.This is a kind of debate I really hate because ther are no real winners.Both are awseome designs,both are immediatley(sp?) recognizable on the road.Has anyone here had the privelge of driving any of these cars?

Originally posted by Dillweed
You guys are mostly right, but if Porsche changed it's styling, it wouldn't be a Porsche now would it?

I think Porsche is running on their last body possibilities for the 911.

What's next Porsche?
You'd better call the number on the back of your car (911) or get Ferrari or Pinafarina to design you some new shapes!;)

yeah really I never thought of that. What it wil be next for the 911??? like in 2010? I can´t imagine, will they radically change their styling? I don´t think so.

The 911's styling will most likely not be radically changed, which is not necessarily a bad thing. its always hard to imagine what the next version of a model will look like but when 911's have come out (except maybe the 996) the reception has always been very positive, and the model had been going for 30 years when the beautiful 993 was released. What im trying to say is have faith in the designers, after all they gave us the 911 GT (concept?) and that is a stunning piece of automotive art.

cheers
jay

Eh! As the only porsche owner in this thread, I can still say I love Ferraris. I also love porsches. I bought my 924 for $1000 CDN. The WB kit cost another 2 grand. It came with nice wheels and tires. Or I could get a used 308 for 15,000. Hmmm, tough choice.

Ferrari is the best looking car... in your garage or on the sunday track.
Porsche you can drive to work, shopping, take a long trip... It can be driven even by the most handfisted drivers or real experts.
Now choose what you want - a cult/finance status icon ("Check out my Ferrari you poor bastards") or a great car to drive and enjoy everyday.

Im not sure exactly what you mean by handfisted, but if you mean that a Porsche can be driven by anyone, thats not true for pretty much all 911's (bar the 996).. The tail-heavy layout still takes some mastering, thats what makes the car such a challenge and rewarding drive

cheers,
jay

I just like this term "handfisted" (it's kinda british I think). I'm telling that the new generation Porsches are driven by women and even old guys on the dayly basis. I don't have a Porsche myself. Don't have the Ferrari either (like most the readers here hehe) but after reading many articles, watching motoring TV programs most of the reviewing people say the same thing.
Porsche - awesome everyday car
Ferrari - awesome showroom car
Check out the km/mls counters in both those cars. Mostly Ferraries have just couple thousands on the clock while Porsches have houndreds of k. kilometers.

God , the 930 turbo that i just bought scares the shit out of me... Maybe i'm not the best driver , but i took many lessons , i take many track events and other driving courses but still after kicking the new baby a bit i'm still not quite sure if it's safe for me to drive that car... I don't know the new ones , but trust me , i've never driven anything so tough like this 930 , no power steering , pedals hard as hell , everything is so ... hmm i wonder if nervous is a right word , but belive me it is just a pure :devil: ... And it was dry , when i'll drive it and it'll start to rain i think i'll just go 40 kph on the right lane. The 996 are different thought , with tiptronics , PSM etc....

I don't know the new ones , but trust me , i've never driven anything so tough like this 930 , no power steering , pedals hard as hell , everything is so ... hmm i

I had the same feelings when I drove 911 first time. Clutch pedal is very hard and steering too. But the SOUND!!! I would forgive lack of comfort, just hear this magnificient sound of air-cooled engine. Of course it's a car for experienced driver. I like it and I want it in my garage

well, there is a porsche that is ok....... you have to find a pic though, then you will see why!!! the Porsche 904 (preferably the 904 six cylinder)

FERRARI RULES THE ROAD... and track... and .... in F1:p

This one?

http://www.world-graphics.com/parade/grey904.jpg

But I like this more! Classic '74 Carrera RSR

http://www.world-graphics.com/parade/silverrsr.jpg

And 959! While body style is questionable technically speaking it's the best Porsche ever made

http://www.world-graphics.com/parade/white959.jpg

I'd also have to disagree about any handfisted (don't you mean hamfisted?) person being able to drive a Porsche. Not to be insulting:biggrin2:, but unless you've experienced lift-throttle oversteer in a 911, you're making a comment like that out of ignorance. As a Porsche owner with track experience, I can tell you any "handfisted" person off the street CAN drive a Porsche... but would probably wreck the car and themselves in the process.

The beauty of Porsche cars is the variety and different driving experiences each model offers. The water-cooled, front-engined cars (924, 944, 951, 968) are arguably the best balanced, most driver friendly Porsches in stock form (aside from the 996). 928s with their awesome V8s are incredible touring and performance cars. Given that, there's nothing like the sound of a Porsche 6 cylinder howling as you power slide through a corner. I love Ferraris for what they are but, as has been said already, for a car you can drive to work every day and drive to and on the track every weekend - gimme a Porsche any time!:D

yes!!!! that first one was the good one!!!

but the 904 six cylinder, well there are only 3 of those... i have some pictures but my scanner is down...... i'll post them when i fix it

but the 904 six cylinder, well there are only 3 of those...

Th pic was made in Milwakee 2001 Porsche parade.
There are lot of quality pics from this event:

http://www.world-graphics.com/parade/

And 959! While body style is questionable technically speaking it's the best Porsche ever made
in 1987 yes. Not anymore. Technically speaking the 996 Turbo sh*ts all over it, despite losing out a little on top speed

Technically speaking the 996 Turbo sh*ts all over it

959 has computer-controlling AWD with locking clutches
and variable split torque

afaik 993 and 996 have simplified AWD with viscous coupling

The end result is what really counts IMO.
Take a 959 and 996 Turbo around a track and not only will the 996 finish ahead of the 959 but the driver will have had to work less to achieve that. This is only superior "technically speaking", what remains is whether this is a better driving experience, which is questionable. But theres no doubt in my mind that the 959's reputation as a tour de force lives on because of how spectacular it was in its day. today it is still awesomely fast but it has been overtaken by many cars, "technically speaking", anyway :) ... still a hell of a drive

cheers,
jay

Take a 959 and 996 Turbo around a track and not only will the 996 finish ahead

That would be a challenge! Porsche against Porsche :D
I meant that 959 has more sofisticated transmission than 993 and 996
Theoretically it could be faster on tough road conditions
But I don't think someone will sacrifice such expensive car to prove it

Think about it. The 959 was created to be the best. In 1987. IN 1987. 13 years on technology has improved dramatically and looking at the car's underpinnings the 959's simply too complex, at least compared to more modern supercars. It was so "futuristic" when it was launched that this reputation still preceeds it now. In reality it has been overtaken by the 996 Turbo and would find it very hard to keep up with it on a track, twisty mountain road, wherever...

cheers,
jay

Don't knock Porsche's tech, even from the 80's. True, their newer engines are more developed, and their cars are better balanced than they were before, but an 80's Porsche 4 cyl can still make 600+ hp.

and for whoever said Porsches suck, Ferraris have a very narrow power band, generally speaking(there are exceptions), and you have to work like a bastard to keep them quick. Porsches, on the other hand, have torquey, tractable engines. With turbos. :D

If it has't already been mentioned, what is the stress like on Ferrari enignes? I mean Ferraris can make 600+ BHP easy, but the engine has to be rebuilt much more often than a Porsche right? I mean race engines have to be rebuilt after every race, so in contrast, what is the status on Porsche engines and reliability/output opposed to Ferrari engines? I haven't heard a whole lot aobut a lot of Porsche engine rebuilds.

I'm not knocking Porsche tech at all, quite the opposite. all i said was that bearing in mind the rate at which technology progresses, something made 15 years ago is not hard to surpass nowadays and therefore Porsche have surpassed the 959 technologically. the 959 may have had some pretty flash kit, but the truth is, the equivalent top of the range model nowadays (996T) wouldnt and doesnt need them to keep up. in fact race a 996T vs a 959 on a twisty circuit and i think the 996 would win... doesnt mean the 959 is a bad car. quite the opposite. i think its a better car than the 996T. the 959 was and still is a spectacular car, it was so far ahead of its time that that is the first thought in your mind when you think of it. still a great drive, but technologically mind-bogglingly complex.

cheers,
jay

Originally posted by crayzayjay
I'm not knocking Porsche tech at all, quite the opposite. all i said was that bearing in mind the rate at which technology progresses, something made 15 years ago is not hard to surpass nowadays and therefore Porsche have surpassed the 959 technologically. the 959 may have had some pretty flash kit, but the truth is, the equivalent top of the range model nowadays (996T) wouldnt and doesnt need them to keep up. in fact race a 996T vs a 959 on a twisty circuit and i think the 996 would win... doesnt mean the 959 is a bad car. quite the opposite. i think its a better car than the 996T. the 959 was and still is a spectacular car, it was so far ahead of its time that that is the first thought in your mind when you think of it. still a great drive, but technologically mind-bogglingly complex.

cheers,
jay

But then again i'll still take the 959 over 996 turbo any day , and not only because it has higher market value... It's just the king of all porsches ever IMO , maybe the carrera Gt will make something... we'll see...

Ruf CTR "yellow bird" and porsche 959- one day

Have you ever had 959 driving experience? When and where?

Ferrari cars IMO are very ugly. The people who designed them think to much about how they look and what looks fast. Porsche designers actually take the time to measure each intricate part of the car and see how it betters the car as a whole. Who in their right mind would want a showroom car besides Jay Leno(idiot). Any actual car fan would want something that is fun to drive and can impress. All Ferrari has is a name, they have ran with that for 50 years just like Lamborghini(a little less). Porsche has the guts to change things and actually see what works and what doesnt.

Tom_S8>
Same here, i would take the 959 over the 996T any day, for very obvious reasons, basically what the car stands for.


cheers,
jay

stuttgart>
I personally prefer Porsches over Ferraris but still have tremendous respect for Ferrari.

The people who designed them think to much about how they look and what looks fast
What's wrong with a beautiful car?
Porsche designers actually take the time to measure each intricate part of the car and see how it betters the car as a whole.
errr... every company does this, including Ferrari. Trust me on that one.
Any actual car fan would want something that is fun to drive and can impress
Ferrari's are fun to drive and do impress. Where the hell are you getting all this from?
All Ferrari has is a name, they have ran with that for 50 years
That's incredible. How can you say that all Ferrari has is a name when it is competing in the most challenging motorsport series in the world (F1) and whooping everyone's a**? Ferrari are still at the front of sports car production, along with Porsche, miles ahead of the rest.
Porsche has the guts to change things and actually see what works and what doesnt.
Honestly, where do you get this stuff? Do you think Ferrari, or any company lets out a car or piece of equipment on the market without knowing if it works or not? Do you think that they dont try numerous formulas when designing a car to see what would be most effective in what theyre trying to achieve?

I know theres a lot of rivalry between the boys from Stuttgart and Maranello, but please... That was almost as senseless as the guy who started the "Porsche sucks" thread. If that's what your input will be like, take it elsewhere.

Originally posted by awaken1973
Ruf CTR "yellow bird" and porsche 959- one day

Have you ever had 959 driving experience? When and where?

Ah , it's a long story... But yep i have had a 959 driving expierience...
So it was about a month or two after i passed my driving license , that will be about 3 years ago... It was summer break in school , and i used the whole summer break to attend track driving schools and other track events to make me feel comfortable with my car and to know how to drive fast , how to use my car most effectively and how to be safe... You know , i have had license after 18 hours of driving for passing license and some , really little practice before i had my license... I only have driven gopeds and stuff like that , and sometimes car on a empty parking lot or so , and i had the money before i had my license so i already got 2 very powerful cars , so i wanted a to learn a bit how to control them etc. And i think that was one of the best things i could make... Althought i was not even 17 because here you could get the license when you were 16 and half or so if your parrents agree... So i was born in september , so i made my license in winter... My father was affraid that in those conditions and with such powerful cars i might not do to well so till the summer break i was only driving with him on board... Mostly in city , and with his wonderful navigator which is so friggin big that i was afraid of driving any fast in it , and i mostly was driving in city , in high traffic ,etc. Then summer break came , and he said that now i'm on my own and can drive my cars... Yeah , i ocassionaly drove myself before that , but i think it was quite reasonable , because here you pass the license and can make a trip around the world starting the same day... And like in the US or canada you have degrees and i think it's a better system... Anyway i attended those track events etc. Anyway back to the 959 story...On the last track event i took those summer break the instructor was talkin crap i heard on every past event and i took 7 before and i was kinda fed up of it... He seen that i'm very young and he said that's good i want to know how to drive fast and safely , but he though also that i never driven on a track , so he told me that he'll race me and show me what's going on , he took a VW lupo challenge out of the garage (it has 120 hp) and said that he'll give me 5s handicap , and if i win he'll take me for a round in a 959 clubsport and let me drive around the track in it too... That sounded like a challenge , he probably also didn't know that my porsche 952 has tuned engine , because stock is 250 hp and mine is almost 400 now , and was about 320 at the time i raced him. I started , then him after 5s , he was doing really well , but didn't stand a chance in the corners , and lost by 1.6s... And he had to do what he promised... It's a strange story but i sware it's true...

Ah, the wonders of the 951 engine. I'm going to slap one in a 924. :D

As for the licensing, we here in British Columbia have just instituted a graduated licensing program. For 6 months, you have to have a driver who is 19 or over, with a full license ride with you. No alcohol, and you can only drive between 5 am and midnight.

for 18 months after that, you can't have any alcohol in your system.
Then you are eligible for a full license.

Anyways, I think some Ferraris look nice, (F40, 250 GT SWB, Barchetta Pininfarina[550 conv.]), and some Ferraris look ugly(400i, 330GTS)

Same with Porsches. Ferraris biggest mistake IMO, was not putting turbos on their production cars. If the 308 had a single damn turbo, it would have been spectacular!

Originally posted by Cbass
Ah, the wonders of the 951 engine. I'm going to slap one in a 924. :D


I have the 952 it has bigger turbine and stock 250 horses... and the 951 has 218 hp... Anyway it's still dying to be tuned , now i think i'll put a lindsey racing stage IV intercooler in it... Damn , that is a big thing... Also i wish you luck with your project...

Originally posted by Cbass
...Ferraris biggest mistake IMO, was not putting turbos on their production cars. If the 308 had a single damn turbo, it would have been spectacular!

Hmmm....
The 308 was not exactly Ferraris greatest car. Ferrari never needed Turbos on their cars except a few had them (F40, 288), instead they relied on sheer brute HP in cars such as the 355. Was not putting turbos on the 355 a mistake? HELL NO. :)

The 308 was not exactly Ferraris greatest car. Ferrari never needed Turbos on their cars except a few had them (F40, 288), instead they relied on sheer brute HP in cars such as the 355. Was not putting turbos on the 355 a

btw Ferrari 308 was the only one rally winner (Tour de France in 1981)
(that's nonsense!)

http://www2.ocn.ne.jp/~fox/308.jpg

Forgive me if I am ignorant, but wasn't the 288 GTO based on the 308? Ass kicking car, and it was turbocharged. My second favourite Ferrari, behind the 250 SWB, because you can't beat the SWB for a GT with clean lines.


Anyways, Porsche would be nothing without turbos. 911's were underpowered when they came out. Don't get me started on the 356. Add a turbo to the 911, zip bang, world beater. Take the 924. You can't find a weaker kneed Porsche(I do not consider the 356 a Porsche btw). Add a turbo, fast fast GT for next to nothing. My brother owns one.

Forgive me if I am ignorant, but wasn't the 288 GTO based on the 308? Ass kicking car, and it was turbocharged

288 based on 308 chassis but got stretched wheelbase and
longitudinally mounted engine with 2xIHI turbochargers
F40 is further development of 288,
they both have the same wheelbase and overall body shape

Anyways, Porsche would be nothing without turbos
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
What the hell are you talking about?????
An engine doesnt need to be turbocharged to be great.
For evidence of this, look under the hood of a 996 (original & revised engine), 993 (same again), 964RS, 996 GT3, even the 2.7RS from 30 years ago!
A car doesnt need a turbo to be great
once again, i refer you to the GT3, 964RS, 968 Club Sport, 2.7RS, '87 Club Sport, Boxster, the list is endless..

just to further back up my point, a well respected motoring magazine got the 10 greatest 911's together to see which was truly the greatest.
The top 3 were normally aspirated. The Turbo's had a poor showing (comparatively). Speed isnt everything. Anyone who thinks the opposite is an idiot.

cheers,
jay

Originally posted by Cbass
Anyways, Porsche would be nothing without turbos.

Wtf? I know that the best porsche (959) is turbo , but all the models that crazayjay mentioned , also don't foget porsche's 32V V8s from the 928s , they were really one of the best and most reliable engines with such power in the 80s...

I'd have to agree with Crayzayjay about the turbo thing... at least in some situations. Put a stock 968 on an autocross course with a stock 944 turbo or even some of the single turbo 911s and it'll eat their lunch all day. No turbo lag and 50/50 weight means no screwing around through the corners waiting for boost or worrying about lift throttle oversteer. Plus, with 0-60 in 5.8 it's no slouch in a straight line either (at least until you run up against someone in their chipped 951 with 350 rear wheel hp - then ya got a problem:shocked:

I'd have to agree with Crayzayjay about the turbo thing... at least in some situations.

0-60 doesn't mean everything about performance
btw the last 911GT3 has 360hp in it. And it is not turbocharged!

Originally posted by awaken1973
[B]least

btw the last 911GT3 has 360hp in it. And it is not turbocharged!

Yeah and it runs around tracks like , i don't even know how to describe it , gotta try that yourself... Anyway turbo is always superior when it comes to aftermarket stuff... Like i had a 2.5 four banger with 250 hp at the cranck in my 952 , and now the same four banger but it has 378hp at the wheels...:D

GT3 is a great example. An amazing 360bhp from 3.6l, while still achieving 22mpg... name one Ferrari that can achieve that. I forgot the 928's and their wonderful V8's, the torque in those monsters is simply wonderful and the engines will go on forever. Unless im mistaken and im pretty sure im not, the 928 was the first and still is the only ever sports car to win the car of the year award. Im not going to start a stupid Porche v Ferrari war but it's well known that Porsche engines are more efficient and robust, with and without turbo... i still cant believe he said porsches are nothing without turbo's.... jeez

>GT3 is a great example. An amazing 360bhp from 3.6l, while still >achieving 22mpg... name one Ferrari that can achieve that. I forgot

both Ferrari and Porsche are great cars. Let's take Modena and GT3 together. both have 3.6L normally aspirated engines which make them very close counterparts.
360 Modena: 400hp@8500 373Nm@4750 0-100 4,5s max 295km/h
911GT3: 360hp@6500 370Nm@5000 0-100 4,8s max 302km/h
(another source - 305km/h)

Ah, you people misunderstand. I don't mean to say some of the best Porsches weren't naturally aspirated. What I meant to say, is that historically, Porsche built it's reputation on it's turbo cars.

Porsche always did more with less, their low displacement cars were competitive, and almost as quick as the big inch GT's. They didn't really start to clean up in racing until they got into the 917 series, with, a turbo 5 liter 12. In amateur racing, the 911 was a tricky car, and if you were good, you could squeeze fast lap times out. The problem is a Corvette was a little bit faster, and a whole lot easier to drive. Enter the 930 Turbo, still tricky to drive, but god damn it was fast. The 924 series came out. These cars are fun to drive, but they really don't have any power, 110 bhp. The turbo had 160 bhp, and room to tune, just look at the Carrera GT's!. The 944 NA wasn't that hot. Same problems, great handling, fun car, not enough power. The turbo, 217-250 bhp. You can get 400 bhp out of those engines without having to change any mechanicals!

The 959! Every 911 turbo! The 968 RS!

Porsche might not have caught on like they did if it wasn't for their turbos. I remember the 906's. Believe me, I don't mean to take anything away from Porsche, best car company in the world, but they built it on turbos.

Anyway speaking of turbos , my (and not only , i'm sure about that) favourite ferrari , the F40 runs turbos too , and nothing comes close to F40 from ferrari , it's the best ferrari ever and probably forever...

Ah, you people misunderstand. I don't mean to say some of the best Porsches weren't naturally aspirated. What I meant to say, is that historically, Porsche built it's reputation on it's turbo cars.

hmm.... i dunno... the original 911 RS was and still is one of the most incredible cars ever.. i think that played a large role in building Porsche's reputation.. adding a turbo does make a car faster, but doesnt necessarily make the car a better drive IMO. as for more people buying the cars for their tunability, it makes sense, but to say porsche built itself on turbos is pushing it IMO.. Theyre renowned for many things before you get to turbo's

cheers,
jay

I definately hold the early NA Porsches in the highest regard. Pound for pound, liter for liter, they were far superior to their competition. The competition just had bigger engines, and a slight edge. The Porsches were better engineered for sure, quick and reliable. The turbo sports series really launched Porsche to the podium, not only for their reliability, but also for the incredible power that the turbo cars made(eg, 917/30 with 5L F12 rated conservatively at 1100bhp, reliably.

It's tough to debate whether Porsche's reputation is owed more to their road cars or racing experiences, i would say that no matter how good your racing record is, if the road cars are sub-standard, the company will not be known as great.
Obviously this is rarely the case, but with Porsche, it was a case of motorsport helping them enhance an already impressive public opinion of the cars. Cutting edge technology and design mated to flawless engineering is what built the Porsche reputation that still is today. Turbocharged engines made racing porsches go like stink, and the lessons learnt then went on to road car production. Cars like the 917/30 or 935, along with their brutish performance are awe-inspiring, but IMO, not synonymous with "turbo". Those were features of the cars, and no matter how important, they didnt "make" them. Great racing cars are the result of innovative companies, inspired engineers and genius designers. Their place in history is assured with success, and further glamorised by top speed and power, but the true achievement goes much further than that. Innovative racing solutions, such as the 935's body shape, which distorted the racing regulations deviously to its advantage, or indeed cutting edge engineering in the making of these types of cars are what built Porsche's reputation, IMO. Turbos are a result of endless testing and development, their success made possible by to the company's know-how and courage. You say Porsches are nothing without turbos, i say it's much deeper than that but at the same time much simpler. Porsche is nothing without its engineering excellence. If it hadnt been turbo's, you can bet your bottom dollar that porsche would have been up there anyway, competing and beating the best, with some pioneering invention or other. It doesnt matter what the invention is, it only matters that it's Porsche.

cheers,
jay

I agree with everything you say except for one thing.

From the start Porsche built it's reputation on sports car racing. With what was essentially a modified VW Beetle, Porsche stormed the sports car world. With the publicity of racing, they sold 356's. With the money from the 356's, they made the 911. By the time they were turbocharging the 911, they had already built a fearsome reputation for doing more with less, and the turbocharger definately helped. The 917/30 killed CAN/AM! There was just no competing with that car.

It's amazing how a slight misquote can radically alter the statement made.

I said, "Anyways, Porsche would be nothing without turbochargers"
Meaning that without the turbocharger, Porsche would not be the same company it is today. They could very well of remained a low volume producer of low displacement sports car, and quite possible, gone out of business. They certainly would not have been able to compete with Ferrari's and GT-40s based on naturally aspirated small engines and light cars.

You quoted me as saying "Porsches are nothing without turbos"

This is saying that all Porsches without forced induction are nothing? Hardly. I simply mean to say Porsche has been shaped into the greatest marque in the world with the aid of the turbocharger. If they hadn't applied turbocharging to their design method, they would not be the same company.

IMO, they would be no more superior to Ferrari than Mercedes Benz is.

You're right, turbos helped a lot, but you have to remember that the first truly great road car porsche ever produced, the 2.7RS, existed before any turbos were introduced, and at the time the car was simply unbelievable (it still is to this day). And thats what makes a great company: great cars.
Turbos meant that Porsche could stay in line with the philosophy they started with, i.e. medium-sized engine, flat 6 etc, to compete with the boys from modena, etc.... Turbocharging was just an option, they could have easily ventured down another path to keep up performance wise. That would have changed the character of Porsches forever though.. Therefore, while i agree with what you say about turbocharging & Porsche, i dont think they would have gone out of business if it handt been for them, not by a long shot.. they would have simply adopted another philosophy.....

i dont want to get into which company is more superior, Porsche or Ferrari, it could go on forever :D

cheers,
jay

Well, if we take out the asthetics and styling, which happens to be a matter of opinion, it comes down to performance.

Both marques have cars of unbelieveable performance, and we could compare F-40s with 959s, F-50s with 996 GT2s, but Porsches are a lot more reliable, and nicer daily drivers. So IMO, that gives Porsche bragging rights by a hair or two.

So whats with the Abarth crest?

Still a dangerous comparison me thinks :D .. both made some unbelievable cars, both have great racing history, very hard to split them apart... im a porsche man but have infinite respect for Ferrari's, most of them anyway...

as for Abarth, i just have a great interest in the cars theyve been responsible for over the years... my uncle had an Abarth Fiat which was very fast, and my dream car, the Lancia Delta Integrale Evo was developed by Abarth for the WRC, which then went on to improve the road version, which you can read about in the lancia forum here (http://64.4.8.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=30f76c9c487bbea4f626932bcfc77c0a&lat=1017189487&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2eautomotiveforums%2e com%2fvbulletin%2fshowthread%2ephp%3fthreadid%3d95 92%26goto%3dnewpost) and here (http://64.4.8.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=30f76c9c487bbea4f626932bcfc77c0a&lat=1017189487&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2eautomotiveforums%2e com%2fvbulletin%2fshowthread%2ephp%3fthreadid%3d95 92%26goto%3dnewpost)
Abarth used to make some awesome cars, unfortunately now FIAT use them as a marketing tag, sticking Abarth badges all over crappy Puntos and the like... I find that very sad, the equivalent would be BMW sticking the tri-coloured "M" symbol on a 316 Compact and adding M alloys, when they could be using their expertise to make some truly sensational cars... and there you have it... Abarth...

oh yeah, and i think the logo looks great :D


cheers,
jay

I'm familiar with the Integrale Evos, but didn't know a thing about Abarth.

I think it's a matter of taste, but taste aside, Porsches make better daily drivers.

Okay, well, I we can't compare a 911 GT2 with a 456 GT, the Ferrari is the better DD.

The 911 is still more reliable though. :D


BTW, the logo is funky to a T

BTW, the logo is funky to a T
Thanks :D !!! as soon as i get my Integrale evo im changing the logo on the centre of the alloy (whats that thing called again??????) to an Abarth one... you should look them up on the Net... have made some really nice cars.....

with you on porsche V ferrari


cheers,
jay

Centre caps. My 924 is missing the right rear cap. How much is an Evo worth anyways?

Hmmm, lets get some ferrari people in here to argue with!

A good evo 1 should be had for about £10k, a good evo 2 for about 12-13k, and limited editions for a little more than that. Supposedly unregistered ones go for £25k or so... the car market isnt doing so great right now so prices are a lot lower than they were last year.... im looking for a limited edition evo 2 which is actually not that hard to find but finding one in good shape and at a reasonable price is tricky....

im up for arguing with some ferrari people... maybe we should go into their forum and start a "Ferrari sucks" thread :D ... but i insulted the guy who started this thread so i think it would be a little hypocritical of me :D

maybe a Porsche V Ferrari thread in the car comparison forum??? i dont think anyones started one of those which is actually kinda surprising...

cheers,
jay

I think we can do both! Let's rumble!

Looked up Abarth, and only found the old 50's and 60's models... Can anyone say Fiat?

Got any links to good clubs or pages?

hehehe...... some guy was trying to tell me chrysler had a better racing history than porsche... needless to say i set the record straight... :D
Can anyone say Fiat?
huh????:confused:

i havent found much abarth stuff on the net, i dont really look around much, but here are 2 sites i just dug up.....
http://ritmoabarthcabrio.free.fr
lot of ritmo stuff, but a nice racing abarth's in the other cars section and a scary 450bhp ritmo!!! history stolen from this excellent site which has good info on all italian car makers:
http://www.carsfromitaly.com/others/abarth.html

cheers,

jay

Originally posted by crayzayjay
im up for arguing with some ferrari people... maybe we should go into their forum and start a "Ferrari sucks" thread :D ... but i insulted the guy who started this thread so i think it would be a little hypocritical of me :D

maybe a Porsche V Ferrari thread in the car comparison forum??? i dont think anyones started one of those which is actually kinda surprising...Originally posted by Cbass
I think we can do both! Let's rumble!Ummm... how about 'no' on the "Ferrari Sucks" thread, this dumb thread is bad enough!

Car Comparisons is fair game though. There are a few [specific Porsche model] vs. [specific Ferrari model] threads in there, but if you want to make a "Battle of the Manufacturers" thread go to it... :)

I'd recommend that you lay out some categories to consider in the opening post, though... ;)

edit: I see you're already there... ;)

I just want to provoke a response, so I can argue the what is IMO the superiority of the Porsche marque.

After all, thats what MTBN did to start this one. :D


When I looked up Abarth, all I could really find were old Fiat like things from the 50's and 60's!

Originally posted by Cbass
I just want to provoke a response, so I can argue the what is IMO the superiority of the Porsche marque.

After all, thats what MTBN did to start this one. :DYes, but MBTN is a dork. :p

:right:

Go put your opinions here (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t38619.html). You may still be the first to respond. :D

When I looked up Abarth, all I could really find were old Fiat like things from the 50's and 60's!
Well, i suppose thats when they were at their peak in terms of production cars, even though it went on into the 70s and 80s with some other cars. today, abarth is just a badge, a marketing gimmick. Carlo Abarth is rolling in his grave...

Yeah, it gets pretty sad when manufacuters do that. The Shelby GT350 was a pretty good car, but after a couple of years, they used it as a gimmick to sell overpriced luxury mustangs.

SCREW YOU
PORSCHE ROCKS.
Porsche's are boughten by true car enthusiasts and everyone touched by the magic of these machines, becomes satanicly in love with them.

Ferrari's are boughten by people who want to show that they have money - status symbols , more or less.

To a certain extent, (and i emphasise this), the same can be said of BMW and their "M" division, which would do well to remember what it really stands for.

cheers,
jay

Whoa there Banchi, chill your ass and settle down. We're not talking smack about Porsches here. We're Porsche guys, hell, I own a Porsche!

Not all Ferraris are bought by rich pretensious fops, just most of them.

BMW is almost Porsche's equal. I rank them a notch below Porsche only because they don't have as long a history with high performance street cars, and never really caught on to turbochargers.

BMW is almost Porsche's equal. I rank them a notch below Porsche only because they don't have as long a history with high performance street cars, and never really caught on to turbochargers.

hmmmm... i put BMW several notches below Porsche, at least for making sports cars. BMW have arguably only made 2 or 3 real drivers cars, whereas the number for porsche is 10 times that. For pure engineering capability theres nothing to separate them... as for the turbo, what do you call the 2002? wasnt it the first turbocharged car available to the market?? true they dont use it anymore but you cant argue against their current 6-pot engines, or the generation before that, or the one before that, etc... i think u get the point

cheers,
jay

Yeah, but the 2002 was discontinued in the 70s. True, BMW hasn't made as many real driving machines for the street. They do have a good history in racing, going back to the 60s even. In the 70s, they started to heat up in competition, but they didn't really hit their stride in street cars until the late 80s. In the last decade, they have just been getting better and better. There is a new roadster coming out from BMW, either the Z5 or the Z4. 2200 lbs, with either the I6, or a 240hp 4 cylinder. Looks pretty nice, try the Road & Track website for info.

Sorry bout that
I just read the thread name & off I went :)

BMW makes more sport sedans and porsche makes sports cars
both are very passionate about their line of the industry and are almost 2nd to none in both. Well thats my opinion anyways :)

what does "almost second to none" mean? :D

Ah, like the most unique car.

BMW makes sports cars too, like the M Roadster. The M3, I regard as a sports car. It's a 5 seater, yeah, but it's still a sports car.

Back to Porsche. I'm trying to convince TomS8 to build a 968 Turbo replica. Myself, I'm building one when I get my shop open. 2 more months! 700sq', two roll up doors. $500 a month, and thats canadian!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Originally posted by crayzayjay
what does "almost second to none" mean? :D

lol:)
personally they are second to none
but most ppl would argue against
just trying not to arouse a bunch of wind talkers :)

Originally posted by Cbass
I'm trying to convince TomS8 to build a 968 Turbo replica.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Almost got me there... damn that would be my third porche...:eek: ...

:bandit:

just trying not to arouse a bunch of wind talkers
lol :D

Tom_S8 you in the business of making replicas?

CBass good luck with your shop :) what exactly is the project?

cheers,
jay

Originally posted by Tom_S8


Almost got me there... damn that would be my third porche...:eek: ...

:bandit:

Oh come on, it would be fun! It would also kill any car on the road.

My project is turning a stripped 924S into a bad ass 450 hp, 450ft lb 2600lb 968 Turbo S replica, with a 16V motor. With variable valve timing, and a torque curve flatter than a pancake(a pancake has a imperceptable curve).

It's going to run me about $14,000. It will cook a 996 GT2, with boost to spare.

My other project is my NA 924. It's getting a turbo and stroker kit, in a couple months. Should make about 250 hp.

Wasnt there only 15 968 turbo s's?:smoka:

Originally posted by banchi105
Wasnt there only 15 968 turbo s's?:smoka:

That's why we are making replicas (the original 968 3.0 enigne plus a turbo like a K-29 or so , 400 hp at wheels at 1 bar or so...)
Btw it's 14 , not 15 plus a couple race cars....

Ya thats what I figured.
If i could get a ride in the original id probably have a heart attack.
I love the 951 but if they had only done the 968 instead - it would have been so much more awesome :D

Originally posted by Tom_S8


That's why we are making replicas (the original 968 3.0 enigne plus a turbo like a K-29 or so , 400 hp at wheels at 1 bar or so...)
Btw it's 14 , not 15 plus a couple race cars....

There is some debate over this. I have a book that says 14, but I keep hearing from reputable sources they made 15 Turbo S's. They did also make the 4 RS models.

Myself, I will be much more content with a streetable 4V that can run with McLaren F1's, and F50s up to around 180mph. After that, they can pass me, I don't mind.

Originally posted by Cbass


There is some debate over this. I have a book that says 14, but I keep hearing from reputable sources they made 15 Turbo S's. They did also make the 4 RS models.

Myself, I will be much more content with a streetable 4V that can run with McLaren F1's, and F50s up to around 180mph. After that, they can pass me, I don't mind.

My source is... Dr.Ing Porsche AG ... i think it may be quite good for info...:finger: ... "Our" 968 turbo replica should easily run around 440 wheel hp at 1.3 bar , and we can go a bit higher... i think that at first i'll run a very stable and calm 400 wheel hp at 1.0 bar to learn how to control this beast... and then...:devil:

Two words. Traction Control. :D

I am currently working on a project of building(cloning) a stand alone ECU. I am trying to work a basic traction control device using the ABS and ECU. I can't even think of doing anything like stability.

I don't know if your source is that informed, or reliable for that matter.

:silly2:

Originally posted by Cbass
Two words. Traction Control. :D


What the f ?
It takes all the fun away... :bloated: ...

Normally I would blast traction control as a crutch for the weak, but I'm going to be driving a 2600 lb car with a 450hp 450ft lb motor.

It's a thresh hold concept, it's just designed as a slight safety net, when you start to lose traction, it kicks in a bit, but if you really try to stomp it, it just breaks loose, and busts out.

Originally posted by Tom_S8


My source is... Dr.Ing Porsche AG ... i think it may be quite good for info...:finger: ... "Our" 968 turbo replica should easily run around 440 wheel hp at 1.3 bar , and we can go a bit higher... i think that at first i'll run a very stable and calm 400 wheel hp at 1.0 bar to learn how to control this beast... and then...:devil:

Wow, I'd like to see this project come together, a multi-continental Porsche project. Well, I think Tom_S8 lives in Poland anyways?

BTW, I chuckled banchi105 when you said that thing aobut having the heart attack, what a way to go. In order for me to reach that excitement, I'd need to sit in a Carrera GT, or the Le Mans winning 917-30.

Originally posted by Porsche


Wow, I'd like to see this project come together, a multi-continental Porsche project. Well, I think Tom_S8 lives in Poland anyways?

BTW, I chuckled banchi105 when you said that thing aobut having the heart attack, what a way to go. In order for me to reach that excitement, I'd need to sit in a Carrera GT, or the Le Mans winning 917-30.

Hell yeah i live in Poland (for now at least , but I'm getting married quite soon so i probably won't move at all , at least not so fast) , and this "Intercontinental" porsche project will be 2 cars , but we'll help each other and share expieriences... At least i thought so... :confused:

Anyway as for parts i'll take look in my backyard;) ....
Hmm ... where are the 3L turbo engines?

http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/702892motorb.jpg
Uhmmm not in here...
http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/106312motorc.jpg
damn...
http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/361711motord.jpg

No luck... again ,i was about to give up , but finally i found it :p
http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/6371133l20engine20front.jpg
That's it...:sun:

:eek::eek2::eek::eek2::eek::eek2::eek::eek2::eek:: eek2::eek::eek2:
:eek::eek2::eek::eek2::eek::eek2::eek::eek2::eek:: eek2::eek::eek2:
:eek::eek2::eek::eek2::eek::eek2::eek::eek2::eek:: eek2::eek::eek2:
:eek::eek2::eek::eek2::eek::eek2::eek::eek2::eek:: eek2::eek::eek2:
:eek::eek2:


Okay, I'm coming over to your house!

I know your pain Tom, I had to clean out my garage a month or two ago. I had to rent a huge truck to cart away all my vintage flat 6's, not to mention various historically signifigant Porsches. Almost couldn't bear to see my 50's Spyder go, my GT1 Lemans car took a bit of pushing to get in the truck, I might add.

Don't get me started on clearing out the Ferraris.


:bandit: :bandit:
:bandit: :bandit:
:bandit: :bandit:
^^^^^^
Now what is he smoking?

Hey Tom I'm going to be in Poland this summer care to meet?

Originally posted by Seb928S@af
Hey Tom I'm going to be in Poland this summer care to meet?

If i am in poland by the time you come , then why not? PM me with details e.g when are you coming and what town you'll be in. Maybe you'll be lucky enough to take part in the one and only porsche gathering in Poland in August i think it'll be August or late june this year , we expect 50+ cars , driving on an airfield (accel + speed testing), autocross events , "parade" throught the city and many other goodies... I can't wait :D

I will be taking a little trip to Europe in a year or so... It is a shame I can't bring any of my projects with me(trans atlantic shipping costs $$$)

I will save thousands by renting a TVR Cerbera 4.2 for the week... and driving it across Europe... stares into distance... I plan a little AutoBahning, and it's a hop, skip and a jump to Poland when you're cruising at 300 kph.

Originally posted by Cbass
I will be taking a little trip to Europe in a year or so... It is a shame I can't bring any of my projects with me(trans atlantic shipping costs $$$)

I will save thousands by renting a TVR Cerbera 4.2 for the week... and driving it across Europe... stares into distance... I plan a little AutoBahning, and it's a hop, skip and a jump to Poland when you're cruising at 300 kph.

If you ever have a run in with cops in poland gimme a call I can take care of it... They'll probably want like 20$ from you since you'll be driving a nice car , but no other consequences... You're sure about the TVR ... Better rent something LHD for driving in mainland Europe...

Good point. I'll have to drop by a high end rental shop whil I'm in Italy or something... I love being an entrepeneur.

Originally posted by Cbass
Good point. I'll have to drop by a high end rental shop whil I'm in Italy or something... I love being an entrepeneur.

Yeah that's really good , but you know , there are problems , high end cars like lambos or ferraris are expensive as hell to rent... You could try because in the EU there are no boarders at all , but officially it's illegal to cross the boarder with a rental car... at least i think so...

This could make it difficult. I was looking forward to flogging a Cerbera on the autobahn. I'll figure something out.

Yeah, their only good in handling, thats all, duh, a unicycle is better than that:finger4:

You mean a Cerbera? Slow? 1100 kilos, 450bhp from a 4.5 liter V8, and 0-100 mph in about 8.3 seconds? Last time I checked, only the McLaren F1 could beat that.

The Cerbera is ridiculous, and happens to be quite a bargain at 45K pounds sterling.

someone reported this post, im not gonna lock, i like arguements, as long as its SEMI civil