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1997 Brakes


WINSTON
07-30-2004, 07:33 AM
CAN SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME?
The brakes on my '97 4wd 1/2 ton ram are pathetic. They have been since new. I cannot lock the front wheels even on a wet road. (No, I don't have ABS). I have had it to to the dealer numerous times, they tell me everything is working as it should. I have tried new disks (aftermarket,the factory disk warped at 6,000 miles), new calipers (Napa reconditioned), various makes and types of front pads and brake fluid. The rear brakes are correctly adjusted and the system has been bled over and over. The pedal is still always soft until it gets to the bottom and has way more travel than seems right. There are no air leaks in the booster line and I have done all the checks from the shop manual that would indicate a booster problem. The rubber lines look good. There are no fluid leaks.
QUESTION, Can air get trapped in either of the 2 valve blocks that are adjacent to the master cylinder and if so how can it be purged?
QUESTION, I know these trucks are prone to leaking inlet manifold gaskets. Can this cause a lack of vacuum that would create a brake problem? The truck uses very little oil and I have looked down inside the inlet and there is a trace of oil so I think there is probably a small leak. Even so I don't think this would cause a soft pedal. I am an accident waiting to happen. Any and all help would be much appreciated. Thanks...W

BleedDodge
07-30-2004, 03:03 PM
I guess it's hard to do brakestands then eh?

WINSTON
08-02-2004, 05:54 AM
Thanks, that's really helpful, were your other 772 post as insightful? I asked for some help on this hoping to get something worth while in return. I hope that it's not your kid that runs out from behind a parked car into the path of a Dodge truck. Thanks again...W

LTJGWorth
08-02-2004, 11:00 AM
Geeze... kind of harsh there don't you think?

BleedDodge
08-02-2004, 01:09 PM
Your dealer says everything is working as it should be. Get that on paper. If a kid runs in front of you and you still hit them, then the dealer can take the static.

What more do you need? You want someone to tell you that you need air brakes or something on YOUR HALF TON PICKUP? Come on...

WINSTON
08-02-2004, 02:00 PM
No, actually I was hoping that I could get some feedback on why the brakes are so poor and maybe some sensible suggestions on parts or proceedures that would improve them. I would prefer not to be in an accident and my only defense be a bill from the dealership for a brake check that says they checked out ok because they are not ok, they suck.
Again, thanks for your helpful response...W

BleedDodge
08-02-2004, 02:05 PM
Best of luck to you.

fredjacksonsan
08-03-2004, 11:33 AM
QUESTION, Can air get trapped in either of the 2 valve blocks that are adjacent to the master cylinder and if so how can it be purged?
--It's certainly possible but rare; you could try a partial bleed of the system by opening up the valve blocks and bleeding them, instead of the entire distance to the calipers. Or if you wanted to get fancy you could get some sort of pump, and pump up from the valves or calipers, that way any bubbles you had in the system could move up in the fluid the way they would like to.

QUESTION, I know these trucks are prone to leaking inlet manifold gaskets. Can this cause a lack of vacuum that would create a brake problem? The truck uses very little oil and I have looked down inside the inlet and there is a trace of oil so I think there is probably a small leak. Even so I don't think this would cause a soft pedal. I am an accident waiting to happen. Any and all help would be much appreciated. Thanks...W
---How do your rear brakes work? If they're ok then you likely don't have a vacuum problem.

How about a brake proportioning valve? If after all the things you've done there are no bubbles, no vacuum leak, etc etc you could install a valve to put more pressure towards the front wheels and therefore more braking power.

As a last thought, have you replaced the master cylinder? If there was a leak in the seals somewhere in there, or (as I've heard about) a gap in the machined parts, there could be a small leak which might cause the problems you're describing, and only affecting the front.

Question -- as far as braking performance, when you put the brakes to the floor, does the truck stop well, or does the rear antilock come on? How far does it take you to stop from 30, 40, 50 mph? Compare that with performance charts from a major magazine to see if your truck is normal. Do the fronts lock up if you hit the brakes hard in reverse?

Of course, I'm considering the truck to be empty for all the braking tests. :)

fredjacksonsan
08-03-2004, 11:35 AM
After more thought (or what passes for it in my head) I'm thinking master cylinder.

WINSTON
08-03-2004, 12:13 PM
Thanks for your thoughts. I have bled everything individually, the M/cyl, the valves, lines, calipers. I haven't reverse bled the system.The rear brakes SEEM to work but there is a rear wheel anti-lock system so it's hard to tell. I have done a search on this subject and it would seem that I'm not the only one with this truck that thinks the brakes are bad. It seems some people have made an improvement by fitting bigger rear wheel cylinders from the 1 tron truck, in effect changing the brake bias. I haven't changed the master cyl. but I did remove it to check there was no external fluid leak into the booster. Are you thinking internal leak? As far as braking performance I have always thought they were poor but I realised how poor after I drove a similarly equipped F150. When I brake hard the truck just doesn't stop well. The rear wheels never lock,(RWAL system) and the fronts won't lock up even going in reverse. Yes the truck was empty as was the F150. I do tow a boat trailer that has hydraulic disc brakes and the truck stops better with the trailer on than with it off! I will try changing the M/cyl. Thanks...W

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