HSVs are awesome

Post people post!! :cool:

The neighbour is a Ford man, he wanted a new car so he drove a brand new XR8 Falcan and came home with a HSV, He paid more money for a secondhand HSV than a brand new XR8. What does that tell you.

Tells me that Ford's SUCK :D:finger: :D :finger:

It doesn't tell me fords suck (although they do:D ). Actually, the XR8 is kinda cool.
I also love HSV. I wish they were over here (they are good BMW replacements, or the new Caddy Catera)
Awesome V8's, good handling, etc. Awesome cars, Australia's best!!:)

Yes they are. :) I had a blast a couple months ago in my freinds GTS. mmmm HSV.... They must find a way to get these kind of cars in the States.

I agree. I know they would do well in Canada at least (we are a mix of European and American tastes, just like Australia). THey are just so awesome. I can't stress the value of them enough. 0-60 in 5 second for a $30000 (American) 4 door sedan! That is unheard of over hear!
Uh, it just makes my so mad and frustrated (is that bad??)

I don't lack faith in Domestic (US) car manufacturers, but I think the reason domestics suck is because of the strict smog regulations in the states. The GTS is a perfect example of unrestricted design. It pisses me off that everything in the states has to be so clogged up the ass with resonators an small piping. Owell. guess I'll move to Japan or Germany someday.

Actually, HSV's use the same LS1 engine the Camaro, vette, etc. And smog protection is good, in my mind. I want to be able to breathe the air I'm driving through.

Damn straight HSV's rule :)

How come yank cars look so crap?? Wheneva i see a car from the USA they look really crappy :P

Fords are crap.
:flipa:

The new HSV's are ment to be coming with 12" subs stock. Anyone else got any news bout that?

I've owned a V8 VS Holden and it sucked....

Fords Suck Tooo...

But Ford Will Be Kicking Arse In 2002 with their new engine range.. :)

Go The GTR Skyline

I could see the 12 inch stock. We have a 560 watt system in new Firebirds (its called Monsoon).
How come yank cars look so crap?
Well, usually they are crap! There are exceptions (vette, viper, camaro, firebird, and, uh,???:confused: )

Holden will be getting a 5 speed auto next year i think. Ford won't be getting one until 2005 i think

BOOOOOOOOOO:mad:

Bahhh Auto's ...

Comparing an HSV to an XR8 is unfair, there isnt a car in the Falcon range to compete with teh HSV, even ford acknowledge that.. For fairness the XR8 should be compared to the SS Commodore.

Im not supporting either, Id rather have an M3

Originally posted by dejoux
there isnt a car in the Falcon range to compete with teh HSV, even ford acknowledge that.. hello???? Does the name T-series ring a bell???????

Yeah all my friend aspire to own a T-Series ;)

you know what... HSV's are awesome... i'd have to say they are the best car on any of the roads they drive on...

skylines are nothing compared to a HSV...

QUOTE JIMBO:

you know what... HSV's are awesome... i'd have to say they are the best car on any of the roads they drive on...

skylines are nothing compared to a HSV...

-----

lol... Are you trying to get me to swallow the hook?? :smoker:

Well I'm going to..

Compare a HSV or GTS to a current model Skyline and see how comes out on top for reliability, fuel economy, refinement and most importantly Technology.

You poor Un-educated person. :flipa:

Then again there is no point trying to compare a HSV or similiar to a Skyline as basically the Skyline is designed from ground up to handle, perform and to be reliable.

Not like the Ol' Family Wagon. :finger:

AND.. If you want to compare Family Wagons Compare the Nissan 260RS which is a 4 Door Wagon which is fitted with the GTR Drive line (4 WD Attesa which is 2wd then 4wd when wheel spin is detected or excessive g-forces etc..)

For example come in to corner with the 2wd feel of no front wheel push then flatten it slap slightly sideways, front wheels receive power and it holds you in a nice slide which happens to pull you out of a corner quicker than any HSV...

NOW Please Don't compare a small market based HSV/Holden which has not had any where as much research and development put in to it as a skyline.

Compare a Skyline to a Porsche and well then there is competition. :)

:flipa: To ya's all..

Oh and just a note... $$ for $$ value and performance a skyline will always kick a HSV.

i.e Slap an Exhaust & Boost Bleed on a $15,000 Skyline and say good by to a VX HSV with an After market Twin System and 6 speed manual.

I have..

The problem is that it requires a skilled driver to control the wheel spin that spins up 235's no worries with 1/4 throttle at 3500rpm.

I've owned a tricked up VS V8 5 speed with 3 1/2" exhaust chip etc etc. and until you drive a Skyline you don't know what wheel spin and being pined in your chair is.

I think I've dribbled enough .. :) :flipa: :flipa: :flipa: :finger: :finger:

go back to cookin your rice man... i dont wanna get into this petty argument

nah... just kidding...

i actually have learnt to appreciate the skylines power/handling and i wouldnt mind owning one... it just that primarily i like v8's and also the VX SS Series 2 (to me) is just one of the best looking cars around.

having had a test drive of both skyline and VX i'd still have to choose the VX... but the skyline still is an awesome autombile, one thing i'd like to see would be a worked gen III turbo'd 27pound (or close to) shoved into a skyline shell... now thats a car, i wonder if it'd fit?!?

:)

There is one thing that I miss with owning my ol' VS..

The Sweet sound of brup brup brup brup... V8.

We went for a little cruise with a VX 6 Speed Gen III with exhaust etc..

Its definately one hell of a nice looking car.

Wheels, Lowered with super low springs.

He's quite a laugh actually as He hsa personalised number plates with Jaffa writen on them, and coincendently he is a black dude.. :)

It does go very well btw, but it seems as if it is difficult to launch.

Still it does have longer legs up over 100km/h than another mates stock R33 GTS-T.

He is consider either selling it and buying a 33' GTR or supercharging it which will cost around 7k or there abouts but that would be one mean machine.

Only problem with supercharging it is with insurance btw, I guess that is one advantage of purchasing a car that already has forced induction.

yeah... the launch of the RWD is nothing compared to the skylines, well... just about any AWD drive car would beat it off the line, but MOST AWD cars a 4 cylinders and die after about the 50m mark anyways, that where the torque of the V8 really takes over

hmm... AWD VX SS Series 2, *drools*

now theres a project car, i wonder how much it would cost to get a AWD conversion on a commodore?

Yes the GTR's are 4wd not Awd but..

you see a GTR will first spin the back wheels off the line then a fraction of a second later the front wheels will grab causing a sideways 4wd drift off the line. the R33 GTR will pull around about a low to mid 13 sec quarter standard.

BUT....

Last night we went for a bit of a cruise and some of the cars involved was a VX 6 speed with exhaust (Jaffa) another R32 GTS-T (2WD) My R32 GTS-T and a few R33's.

Anyway with a few mods like Exhaust and 1 bar of boost, a slight fuel tune with a fuel pressure reg bleed setup to reduce the fuel pressure when on boost to help reduce the AF from 10:1, she keeps up with the R33 GTR, even with Boost droping at 5500rpm to 11-12psi due to the turbo running out of breath (Too Small).

We had a couple of runs off the line and with mine stalling to 4200rpm with a sidestep of the clutch and 1/4 throttle through first gear running 25psi in the rear tyres that are 225 50' 16" I was actually able to grab a better launch that what the R33 GTR did with its 4WD with a 5000-6000RPM launch.

The VX had troubles with wheel spin etc but it was lowered with hard suspension etc which its obvious that a car that has heavy duty suspension is not going to be able to have the weight transfer to the rear wheels.

Anyway My nose was in front by a bonnet length all the way until around 150-160km/h where we backed off.

Its all in the suspension.... and Launching technique and hard gear changes.... I guess thats why the VS I had went through a Diff, Gearbox, and the IRS chassis snapped where the diff bolted on.

That is basically why I bought the R32 as it can get in to the 13's still stock with basically just an exhaust....
Then a $1500 turbo with full boost from approx 3000rpm to 7500-8000rpm it will pull in to the low 12's if you run big tyres and have the suspension setup properly.

Most of the Skylines on the road have major traction issues as they have lowered suspension.

oh yer.. the Skylines if you didn't know are a Twin Cam 24 Valve 6 Cyclinder Turbo. The R32 GTS-T is a 2ltr RB20DET (6 Cyclinder), the R33 is a 2.5ltr 6cyclinder and the GTR's are all 2.6ltr (6 cyclinder Twin turbo)

Slap an Exhaust and remove the boost restrictor on a GTR and you are pulling all day every day low 12's. Then comes the slightly bigger turbo's and say hello to low elevens.. :)

Seriously but You have to drive a slightly worked turbo car and feel the amount of extra pull they have over a V8 from down low... Like wheel spin as soon as it hits 3000rpm with 1/4 throttle...

A lot more fun to drive...

long post....

I forgot to mention the AWD Nissan Pulsar GTiR which is a SR20 with 4 valves per cyclinder twin cam turbo 4cyclinder.

It pulls a high 13 sec quarter.

Up the boost and slap on an exhaust...

I think the LS1 should modify their head design and slap on a quad cam with 4 valves per cyclinder and then well...

The turbo cars wouldn't have a chance and you would also get the benifit of a high reving motor (lower geared) with the considerably reduce fuel consumption.

Look at what ford have been able to do with their mustang motor which i think is a 4.6ltr Quad cam.

One thing I didn't like with the VS is that due to the gearing which was to long it was a bit of a pain in the arse to drive around town and traffic especially with its HD clutch.

Quote -Joel-

Anyway My nose was in front by a bonnet length all the way until around 150-160km/h where we backed off.

you see... the VX's are competition for the skylines, not much tho, but they do give 'em a run for they're money...

nothing beats the rumble of a v8 when it hits the 5000's tho, thats basically why i love v8's so much...

BTW, what city are you doing this in?, i know if i tried that in brissie i'd get caught for sure

To be honest - I think that your neighbour decided that a near-new HSV was better value than the Falc - if they were close in price I think he made a good decision.

However, the XR8 is the same price as an SS. Having driven both there is so little difference on an overall basis that it comes down to:

1) Resale (marginally better in the Holden)
2) Rear End Grip (marginally better in the Falc) even with the toe-control arms
3) Brand Preference (this is the biggest differentiator)
4) Looks (I still puke looking at the XR8 front end and the rest of the AU - yech!!!)
5) Gearbox - the SS has a six speed. 6th is useless at under 130kph
and the bloody thing as slow and baulky. The Tremec 3650 is only a
five speed but it's a nicer shift.

As for the HSV vs the Falc - the R8 or Clubsport is a definitely a better car but in new for a lot more dollars. And if you would doing the sums on a new one it would be like comparing a new SS vs an R8 - absolutely no comparison.

As your neighbour bought a used one - if you gave me the choice of a new SS or a new XR8 vs a near-new Clubsport for the same money - you'd be an idiot to buy anything but the Clubbie.

I sounds like your Ford man neighbour has some brains and made the rational choice.

From what I gather, HSV range are made from a completely separate company who purchase Holden's cars and make huge mod to it then sale them with much dearer price.

As for Ford and Holden family car range. I hate those earlier holden which looks so ugly so as for Ford. the new Holden SS series looks hot and the round butt is so smooth.

By the way I've seen some Monaro in Black and I ask the question.

" Why on earth you buy a Monaro in black? Isn't the whole point of gettin a Monaro is to be noticed, thus the need for a Yellow or Carrot Monaro "

Yellow Monaro ownz all your ass

Look at the price of that thing though. Its hardly worth that much for a worked Commodore.

After all you see that on the road and you arn't going to go wow.. Your going to think its just another commodore.

Get my drift.

Now for Performance/Potential/Price I would have to say the For XR6 Turbo is by far the best buy.

The potential that thing has to make serious power without the loss of drivability or huge fuel consumption bills is awesome.

Slap a nice sized Bar and Plate FMIC, Nice exhaust, New ECU, Maybe slightly bigger turbo up to boost and you will be looking at 600hp no problems, Providing ford have put the R&D in to the motor so that it can handle it, not to mention the gearbox, diff.

After all Aussy car makers aren't really well known for making cars with tough drive lines. Not like the old Jap Cars. i.e Toyota, Nissan.

Ever heard of a Nissan Diff blown? Not worn out but Blown.. I never have.

Originally posted by -Joel-


Ever heard of a Nissan Diff blown? Not worn out but Blown.. I never have.


I've heard of 1 or 2 cases of Silvias blowing thier diffs- but other wise- no- you are dead right :D

Well what your missing is that no Nissan in Australia has had a shape sexier then the HQ Coupe and no 30+ year old Nissan has had balls bigger then a HK GTS.

HSV VT GTS was the fastest 4 door ever built from Australia, and I'm pretty sure that Ford ahsn't come close yet. Sure they have new engines like the XR6 Turbo and the new Boss XR8 but if Holden had enough guts to just take a stock Corvette engine from GM and put it in the SS then Ford would be up shit creek, again. Ford are fine but they are nothing to a good HSV or Holden.

Originally posted by Mopar Muscle Maniac
Well what your missing is that no Nissan in Australia has had a shape sexier then the HQ Coupe and no 30+ year old Nissan has had balls bigger then a HK GTS.

HSV VT GTS was the fastest 4 door ever built from Australia, and I'm pretty sure that Ford ahsn't come close yet. Sure they have new engines like the XR6 Turbo and the new Boss XR8 but if Holden had enough guts to just take a stock Corvette engine from GM and put it in the SS then Ford would be up shit creek, again. Ford are fine but they are nothing to a good HSV or Holden.


Perhaps- but the Boss V8 is apparently a big disappointment- the XR6 Turbo is just as quick- I haven't seen any perfomance figures for the FPV GT- but it'd run the 300Kw HSV's pretty close- and apparently they are going to attach a blower to make a 350Kw GTHO. I haven't driven any of the VY/BA range- so I am only making assumptions.

But why waste money on any of these "super-sdeans" when the 350Z eats them alive for less????

And I think the S15 Silvia is a fair bit sexier than the HQ

to the guy in the beginning...

its pretty obvious a HSV would perform better than a XR8, u fool.

XR8 is at the same level as the Commodore SS
XR6 is the same level as the Commodore S
and... the HSV (im not sure what models you were talking about, the AU/VX or the new BA/VY), but the HSV is the equivelant as the FPV Falcon. Or in the AU series - the T series.

And I'm sure if he tested out a FPV or T-series AU model falcon and compared it to a VX/VT/VY HSV, the falcon would come on top. I guarantee it.

have u eva heard of a ford 9 inch blown? not worn out blown?
it hasnt happened in history even with over 3000hp running through them..
holden is shite!!!! ill admit they hav risen from nothing at all when they actully start using holden made engines..not chevrolet HOLDEN *cough*gay*cough*
and i agree with kielbasa!!!
LS1 is straight out of a corvette...
fastest production car in australia is the BA GT running 13.98
2nd being the BA XR6 turbo running 14.11 and 3rd being the 1972 E49 charger
Where is holden huh???
the 300kW VY HSV is only 300kW at the flywheel people..its actully 235kW at the rear wheels!!!
get your facts right boyz and gurls as ford has dominated aus eva since september 1960!!!

have u eva heard of a ford 9 inch blown? not worn out blown?
it hasnt happened in history even with over 3000hp running through them..
holden is shite!!!! ill admit they hav risen from nothing at all when they actully start using holden made engines..not chevrolet HOLDEN *cough*gay*cough*
and i agree with kielbasa!!!
LS1 is straight out of a corvette...
fastest production car in australia is the BA GT running 13.98
2nd being the BA XR6 turbo running 14.11 and 3rd being the 1972 E49 charger
Where is holden huh???
the 300kW VY HSV is only 300kW at the flywheel people..its actully 235kW at the rear wheels!!!
get your facts right boyz and gurls as ford has dominated aus eva since september 1960!!!

__________________________________________________ ___________

oi cock sucker,
the gt is not the quickest australian production car ever. what do i have to back it up well in the november issue they haad the clubbie II up with the fpv gt. the gt ran a time of 14.22, the clubbie howeva ran a time of 13.56. in the december issue of motor they had the ss up againt the xr8, the xr8 ran a time of 14.37, ss ran a time of 13.94 and in motors own words "

have u eva heard of a ford 9 inch blown? not worn out blown?
it hasnt happened in history even with over 3000hp running through them..
holden is shite!!!! ill admit they hav risen from nothing at all when they actully start using holden made engines..not chevrolet HOLDEN *cough*gay*cough*
and i agree with kielbasa!!!
LS1 is straight out of a corvette...
fastest production car in australia is the BA GT running 13.98
2nd being the BA XR6 turbo running 14.11 and 3rd being the 1972 E49 charger
Where is holden huh???
the 300kW VY HSV is only 300kW at the flywheel people..its actully 235kW at the rear wheels!!!
get your facts right boyz and gurls as ford has dominated aus eva since september 1960!!!

__________________________________________________ ___________

oi cock sucker,
the gt is not the quickest australian production car ever. what do i have to back it up well in the november issue they haad the clubbie II up with the fpv gt. the gt ran a time of 14.22, the clubbie howeva ran a time of 13.56. in the december issue of motor they had the ss up againt the xr8, the xr8 ran a time of 14.37, ss ran a time of 13.94 and in motors own words "NOT ONLY IS THE SS HALF A SECOND QUICKER THAN THE XR8, BUT IT OUTPACES THE 290KW FPV GT AS WELL".

__________________________________________________ ___________"NOT ONLY IS THE SS HALF A SECOND QUICKER THAN THE XR8, BUT IT OUTPACES THE 290KW FPV GT AS WELL".

"cock sucker"
thats a good one, ill remember it next time im climbing off ya mum :)
now listen here u fucking idiot..HOLDEN hasnt yet broken the 13 second barrier in ANY stock holden!!!
FORD BA GT FALCON RUNS 13.98 second quarter mile at 167km/h!!!!
The Only Australian Production car to break the 13 second barrier!!!!
ive been in my mates GT at calader park and it run 13.7 with some different tyres (BFG 265) on the rear!!!
your local FORD Dealer will tell you they run 13.98 outa the box!!!!
you shouldnt really believe everything u read mr HSV..
theres only been 2 other production cars the reach the 13 second mark and thats the stock phase 3 and stock E49 charger with modern rubber..but that dosnt count!!!

buy some motor or wheels mag's and it has the times of the cars and holden & hsv has brocken the 13 socond mark sry bout the harsh commment on cock sucker but yeh my mum is free...but thtas not the point. buy the august 03 issue, wheels april 03, motor issue december 03, motor november 03, motor november 2002, motor august 03, i have all of them and most holdens and hsv's run 13 seconds and all ford, fpv dont what have you got to say bout that its the cold hard fact and if ur mate has a different seat of tyres on his gt thats kinda cheating as well holden wins again and dont forget csv with the 370 kw beast witch beat the gts coupe any ways my point it holden wins ford loose as normal so go out and buy these issue's im pritty sure you can order old issue so go out and buy them and then start saying that ford is better

and ford under mark there kw they use DIN and holden use ECE if hsv were to use DIN the clubbie would be putting out 292 kw 2 more than the gt plus it is lighter so it will go quicker but i cant wait to see the fpv turbo with 285 kw now that is a michine to bad its got a ford badge

"cock sucker"
theres only been 2 other production cars the reach the 13 second mark and thats the stock phase 3 and stock E49 charger with modern rubber..but that dosnt count!!!

Why do people quote the Phase 3 as having a sub 13 second time??? This is the original Wheels test at a Ford web site : http://www.fomoco.com.au/PhaseIII-WheelsMag.html (Note it says 14.7 for the quarter mile.)

Also I believe the R/T E49 Charger only did a 14.3 as well.

Correct me if I am wrong but "officially" no production Ford (be it Tickford or FPV enhanced) has ever cracked 14 seconds.

thtas what i said no Tickford or fpv has done under 14 but ford man b-leives they can. have you heard of any holdens and hsv's doing under 14 second???

I absolutely love HSV's and Fords but i have to say that although in the past HSV's have always dominated ford, the new for designs like the Gt and the colours that they come with are much MUCH better looking than anything holden offers on its cars. I especially love that bright metallic blue, lime green and bright orange on the new fords. Yes HSV still has more power but I'd rather be driving an XR6 turbo with looks and guts rather than a simple looking HSV with an extra 40 kws or so to make up for its lack of looks. Plus i gotta say the new holdens look kinda bulky and round rather than sleek like the new Falcon Gt. And that is my :2cents:

Mate, who cares about the power war between HSV and FPV? The facts are that a bottom end HSV (Clubsport) can outrun a top end FPV (GT-P), and use less fuel while doing it. I don't know why FPV doesn't just give up now, because it will never beat HSV, and everyone knows that. If FPV were to put a 350kW supercharged 5.4 litre Boss V8 in a Falcon to make a GTHO, HSV has a 360 kW 6.2 litre stroker Gen III available from Chevy. I have heard of a 370 kW 6.4 litre Ford V8 (the old Windsor), but HSV has that covered too, with their 420 kW, 7.0 litre, 427 ci Gen III, which they recently canned, but there's no doubt they can bring it back if FPV ever comes close. By the time Ford thinks about building a truly powerful car, Holden will have its VE Commodore, which means 280 kW for Commodore SV8! Then there is about 320 kW for Clubbie, GTO and Maloo, a bit more than that for the luxury cars, right up to 370 kW in GTS! (up to 420 kW available in top spec if needed), and all this is before a supercharger is required! Like hsvman said, Ford is giving Holden a head start by using the dodgy DIN method to measure power, so really, the GT should line up against Clubsport, and GT-P has to face Clubsport R8, Senator, Grange and GTO Coupe, leaving GTS Sedan and Coupe alone! Even the cheapest HSV, the Maloo, can outrun Ford's dearest Ute, the FPV Pursuit, and also handles better, thanks to independent rear suspension. HSV has picked yet another hole in FPV's lineup, introducing the 270kW AWD Coupe4 this month with a claimed 0-100km/h time of 6.6 seconds ON MUD! I think the Blue Oval should just give up while they are close to being infront. They just haven't realised that it's all downhill from here, and HSV will enjoy many more years of dominance.

andrew hatch.......read what i said..with modern rubber........BA GT does 13.98.......thats under 14 isnt it????.....lol.......Zwrangler....the blue is called "Blue-Print Blue" and is fords new top selling colour, grenn is called "Envi" and orange is called "Blood Orange".......and yes they are bloody awsome........LOL ford has a supercharged 5.4 litre Boss V8 Which Puts out 373kW.......and they dont hav to stroke anything.........or get anything imported for the USA......Unlike Holden Who Dosnt Make There Own Engines........maybe your refering to the 372kW 6.4 litre V8 Ford made for shits and giggles........Ford Arrow........HSV hav covered that too???? what by using an engine 1.6 litres bigger WHICH they didnt manage to get into production.........Holden found out they wouldnt make enough sales on the hunks of crap to get a big enough profit.......u eva been in a chev with a 427???..........they are slugs down low in the revs........where street driven cars need the power........do a little research on it and youll find out what holden did.......not worth the hassel.......420kW out of a 427 thats not even a kilowatt per cube......unlike most of fords new models.......VE Commodore.......280kW........October australia will see the release of the Ford F6 Typhoon.....270kW 4 litre turbo.........with alot more torque than any Holden out........550Nm @2000RPM to 5250RPM.........as for the 320kW club sport........fords new GT wont have any trouble with that putting out ova 340kW.......and as for the twin overhead cams in the Boss.......and the old day pushrod type engine (LS1) holden is using u figure what has better acceleration.........as for looks.........i havnt heard of anyone and i mean ANYONE that dosnt like the BA XR8.......and fords new design........$50 million went into the design of the BA.......the XT Falcon 4 litre out corners every new holden out.....even with the new advances Ballistic steering and out performs the VY Supercharged ecotec V6 with ease........ever heard of the Herrod Ford AUII......XR8 5 litre with minor work.....herrod extractors herrod exhaust multi throttle bodies(8)..... and its running 350kW......naturally aspirated.......add that combo to the Boss290 and lets see who has the braging rights in the power specs......ford hasnt put a V8 bigger than 5.4 litres in a Falcon Since 82 and there still dominating V8 supercars vs. the 5.7 litre (LS1) commodores and look who won last year and look whos winning this year.......FORD........your blabber is tired old shit that everyone uses that hav no clue.......all u can say is holden is better.......you cant prove it.........your all talk......wake up and smell the roses, ford has allways and will allways dominate this planet wheneva it comes to cars.......your suffering a bad case of denial.......and next time look shit up about what your talking about.......maybe then you wont be proved wrong so damn easy........

Ford_Man_1984, what I was saying is that FPV should quit while theyre doing ok. What the hell is a turbocharger doing on their 4.0 litre DOHC straight six shitbox? The easiest way to get the required power is to drop in a big ass V8, like HSV did, instead of rooting around with all the high tech bullshit, which is just more that can go wrong. I said that if there is ever going to be a challenge from FPV, they have a 6.2 Gen III and a 7.0 Gen III, and those two have beaten FPV before they even start to challenge. All this is before a supercharger is required. I have also heard of a 350kW 6.5 litre Gen III (CSV) which I'm sure HSV could produce if they had to. And with all this turbo six bullshit by Ford, I think it's a pretty safe bet that Holden will come up with a supercharged version of their new V6. And have you heard about some Buick concept car using a twin turbo 3.2 litre Holden V6? It puts out 300kW and 600 Nm before it's even trying! Now if Buick can do that, surely HSV can. and thats not using the largest engine! If you work out the kW per litre, a 3.6 version should pump out around 340kW. The maximum possible displacement of the new V6 is 4.0 litres, which equates to about 375kW in biturbo form. (remember this is before they are even trying. There is even word about a 300kW, 900Nm, 8 litre twin turbo diesel V8 finding a home under the Clubsport bonnet. And what is FPV gonna do about the HSV Coupe4? Oh, I almost forgot. What about the HSV Avalanche (specced up Adventra LX8) and the HSV XUV AWD (specced up Crewman Cross8)? And the V8 Supercars don't use LS1 and Boss engines, they use the old cast iron pushrod 5.0 litre V8's. The Holden engine has been destroked to 304 cubic inches and the Ford has been stroked out to 303.5 ci. And if FPV is so 'brilliant', how do you explain the poor sales figures compared to HSV? And the Arrow Coupe, i said 370kW, you said 372kW, same difference. The fact is that it was slower than the 5.7 litre 305kW CSV Mondo. I don't know the exact weight figures of HSV's and FPV's, but i have heard that the GT-P is nearly 200 kg heavier than a Clubbie R8! No wonder Fords are slow! :nono: :lol2: Oh, and err, the Gen IV V8 is a twin cam pushrod with 3 valves per cylinder. Work that one out, smart arse. :flipa: And your comment about the 427, It won the Bathurst 24 Hour TWICE FROM TWO TRIES and came home 1-2 in one of them, beating a 3rd placed Porsche by 13 laps. Those ones have 520 kW, which is about 1.22 kW per cube. Now which naturally aspirated Ford has that sort of power? None of them except for V8 Supercars. If the 427 had the same kW per litre as Skaifey's supercar, it would pump out around 680 kW. :nono:

maybe you dont understand what holden did.......THEY SCRAPED THE 427 CHEV BECAUSE THEY CANT SELL ENOUGH TO MAKE A PROFIT....."I have also heard of a 350kW 6.5 litre Gen III (CSV) which I'm sure HSV could produce if they had to.".....i bet you were sure of alot of things b4 last night when i posted.....maybe your not listening.....Holden has a contract with chev....they will be using the LS1 for a long time to come....u think the arrow is slower than the CSV Mondo.....wake the fuck up.....do u realise the performance of the Ford Arrow.....they sold 25 of them around australia.....registered yes.....72kW more than HSV's range topping Coupe GTS at the same time....600Nm.....what do u want me to work out about that engine????...you just said what it has.....any educated person knows how a combo like that is set out....common knowledge in which u obviously dont have.....it won bathurst 24 hour against Porche.....thats nothing to brag about....even my bosses BA XR8 with slight mods kicked the shit out of them at the track last weekend....."IF"....."IF" the 427 had the same power per cube as skaifeys car..it sure bloody dosnt hav that power....u want me to find a ford with naturally aspirated big kilowatts....1000.714kW at the wheels of the 71 fairlane in NSW......fastest road registed car in australia......by the way you have a large peice of your dads arse hair on the finger your waving......300kW and 900nM hey.....thats resonable....not great but reasonable....thats an 8 litre twin turbo V8 diesel....XE Falcon....348Kw....1400nM!!!!!!!.....thats just a single turbo on an otherwise stock 4.1 litre X-Flow running on LPG....for that upgrade your looking at 6 grand.....and i wonder how much the diesel V8 costs......

I know I shouldn't respond, it's obvious you've been through special education your whole life but anyway here we go.

All the times you or I can quote are only relative. Times produced by any car can vary alarmingly between temperature, tires, serviced condition of the motor etc...

Power, times, etc... are only one aspect of a car. There are a lot of other things too, like weight, build quality, style, handling etc....

Ford has done well in recent years but Ford/FPV have not produced a better car than the HSV GTS. Sure their Turbo Six is better than what Holden can make but the shine will soon

Wen the new HFV6 lands and the Gen1V appears in VZ Ford will have to do something serious. They already have weight issues with BA and with a six that still has the bore centres that date back to the 60's and the source for the next V8 still unconfirmed it deosn't look good.

Quietly I'd reckon they've bet the farm on the new Territory.

However this still does not detract from the fact that you are an idiot.

Anyone who can attempt to praise the virtues of the ESP Falcon, a big bucket of crap powered by an old ugly gas guzzling Cleveland (and yes I have driven them) and all you can do is bleat about figures from one publication or another about your Fords.

You're a special one Ford_Man_1984. Now tell us some more times and power figures and we might humour you, you little ray of sunshine.

You know what AndrewHatch, you're absolutely right. Ford sure as hell has never built a car to rival the HSV GTS. Not even the new DJR320 can do it(made by Dick Johnson and Harrop and slower than a clubbie). I know there is more to a car than performance, but HSV is close enough if not better than Ford in the handling department now that they have Ohlins adjustable dampers on GTS. The GTS is faster than any car Ford has ever built, and it even uses less fuel than an XR8! (it cam manage 1800 RPM in 6th gear at 110 km/h). I don't think Ford could have made a worse choice with the Boss V8. The BA Falcon XT V8 is capable of only 5250RPM, and it's rival, the VYII Commodore SV8 does a touch over 6500RPM! So the Gen III usually has more power, slightly less torque, an extra 1250 RPM (in some cases), as well as better fuel economy than the Boss, as well as revving more freely. So would you call DOHC engines better than pushrods? Or is this just another example of brilliant engineering by The General? Looking at the ECOTEC V6, i'd say pushrods still have a hell of a lot of advantages. When it came out in the 1988 VN Commodore (Buick started production in 1983), it was the most powerful six offered by a local manufacturer, but remember it was only called ECOTEC after the VS II update, and has won Wheels Car Of The Year three times since '88. It has beaten Falcon, Magna, Avalon, Lexcen, Camry and fuck knows what else in both 0-100km/h acceleration the whole time (it even beats the BA 0-100) and what's even more impressive is that it has been the class leader in fuel economy since it came out in 1988, and still is. I'm just glad GM is sticking to the pushrod layout in the Gen IV, but with 2 cams and 3 valves per cylinder. Anyway, back to HSV. Depending on the model, VY is generally a safer car than the BA, but there's not enough difference to worry about. I know that temperature plays a big role, but if all cars are tested in the same conditions, the difference shouldn't be too different, but on hot days, Commodore usually beats the Falcon by more than it normally would. Ever wondered why no one can get the claimed 0-100 time of 5.3 sec in a Clubsport? It's because HSV did it at night. FPV have been reported to be doing it too, but no matter how hard they try, Falcon simply cant beat Commodore. And would someone explain how SS Commodores always seem to beat FPV GTs around Mount Panorama? The only explanation is that the Commodore does its job of being a sports/muscle car better than any Falcon can. And as for tyres, it's Ford's stupid mistake for not using Bridgestone across their range. And the GTS can hit redline in 3rd during a burnout, where as the GT doesn't produce enough revs to move out of 2nd!

A bloke from Wheels magazine has driven the Cadillac XLR or whatever it's called, which is built on the VE Commodore platform and has the 3.6 litre HFV6 and 5 speed auto of the VZ Commodore. The verdict: not even Mercedes-Benz can build such a car. And this is without the Gen IV V8. Bear in mind too, that Torana is due for launch in 2008 with a 4.6 litre 260 kW Cadillac Northstar V8, and a 200 kW 3.6 litre Holden V6. There are also rumours of a Gemini to replace Vectra in 2008, with the Caddy Northstar's little brother, a 215 kW 4.0 V8, a 3.2 Holden V6 and an Opel inline 4.

The biggest problem for Ford, is that they are nearly broke as it is, they are relying on the Territory to save them, which is not going to happen because the VE Adventra is not far away and with the Toyota Rav4 to replace Holden Frontera, Toyota Prado to replace Holden Jackaroo and Toyota Landcruiser to be an all new Holden model, Ford are yet to face their darkest days.

And Ford_Man_1984 is one of the biggest bullshit artists on the net. Mate, who gives a fuck what some bloke did to their XD or whatever it was? The fact is that most fast Falcons are not the work of Ford. And don't bother mentioning concept cars either (not that Ford has many). Cadillac has that covered that with their 750 kW, 1250 Nm 13.6 litre V16 'Sixteen' concept car capable of 0-100 in 4 seconds and fuel economy to match a 6 cylinder BA. And then there's the Elfin MS8, designed by Holden. 300kW HSV LS1, 6 speed manual, rear wheel drive, 850 kg, 0-100 in 3.3 sec.

Oh and I forgot to mention that Cadillac will start selling cars in Oz under the Holden name. Looks like Ford is fucked.

And Holden is currently leading in the V8 Supercar series too.

And as for the Arrow, you can't expect to put a gearbox with ratios twice as tall as theyre supposed to be, as well as an outrageously tall diff and expect it to go fast, no matter how much power it has.
Now i'm not replying to u anymore Ford_Man_1984, because all you talk is S-H-I-T. :banghead:

Why do you Holden/Ford boys squabble so childishly?

"The GTS is faster than any car Ford has ever built"
obviously your a little behind in fords progress.....1964 the ford Thunderbird ran 11.8 second quarters straight out of the box....and yes it was a production car....me and my friend find it extremly funny about your views of the ecotec......not only does it hav the torque of a 4 cylinder but it wasnt until 1993 holden managed to beat ford 1970 4.1 litre straight 6 in kW.....but they still havnt matched the Torque.....
Holden 1993 VP : 130 kW@4800 RPM Max
Torque: 295 Nm@3200 RPM Redline

Ford 1970 XY:127kW at 4200rpm
Torque: 339Nm at 2200rpm
and this is your "unbeatable" V6???
you still hav no idea about what your saying.....you used all the biggest engines u could think of to challange ford......i not only match them but beat them so now youve gone to smaller less quality engines.....and neither that or talking about cars holden is going to make in the future is going to beat ford.....any holden going to be made within the next 20 years has allready been beaten by FORD.......Ford is almost broke.....thats the stupidest thing ive ever heard in my life......they own: Mazda, Jaguar, Mercury, Lincoln, Land Rover, Volvo and Aston Martin........what does holden own????
oh yeah thats right there owned themselves.....
"Bear in mind too, that Torana is due for launch in 2008 with a 4.6 litre 260 kW Cadillac Northstar V8. There are also rumours of a Gemini to replace Vectra in 2008, with the Caddy Northstar's little brother."
Ford Has A 4.6 litre V8 Also.....used in the mustang....292kW....goes to show holden will never reign superior!!!!!!
holden will neva challange ford in its 0-100 times no matter what u manage to make up......2 litre turbo ford escort 94 model......0-100 in 3.07 seconds........a worlds best since then.......no matter what holden has ford will always beat it.....i dont mind if u dont reply to me any more.....but b4 i bid u fair well how about posting your age......so we can all look back at this and laugh at you......wat do u say chicken shit?????

And you're stupid. In case you didn't realise Holden are a part of General Motors- You know- Buick, Cadillac, Pontiac, Chevrolet, Suzuki, Saab, Saturn, Opel, Vauxhall, AM General, GMC, the late Oldsmobile and small shareholdings in the FIAT group and Subaru.

Ford Australia is very much the same as Holden- under the umbrella of a bigger company (Ford). Secondly the Ford 94 Escort you are talking about is the mid-80's RS2000 (In a particular specification that I can't remember the name of).

Thirdly Ford are damn near broke- they continue to post large losses every year and recently lost the title of worlds Number 2 car maker to Toyota.

Really, neither Ford Australia or Holden make anything of any note and none of it is anywhere near clever. Holden use a V Body with an LS1 and Buick V6's and Ford uses a 15 year old floorpan with truck engines and a Straight six that has been around since the Jurassic period. If you want innovation look to Europe, or Japan- but not to the land down-under.

hummer as well incase u didnt realise......your just as stupid as hsv gts.....not once did he or i say ford "AUSTRALIA"............ford are damn near broke
i spose thats y they made $7.9 billion profit last year...........RS2000 and RS200 are 2 different designs incase u didnt know.......check the engine chassis and drive train specs.........nothing is the same apart from the normal make up of any car.....i sugest u do some reading up.......maybe venture out of the back yard and you will realise its a big world out there.....and ford pretty much OWNS it.....now you can black book me or close this thread or whatever you want......but neither my name nor ford will eva be forgoten.....as for HSV GTS........your a gutless peice of shit........give up.....thats as good as admiting defeat.......Peace out mutha fuckers........hav fun in your little holden world.....where child molesters and loses live!!!!!!!

OK that's quite enough, enjoy your bannage.


If you're saying that I didn't include Hummer in my GM brand profile, then you're wrong- that's what AM General is, dumbass.

I suggest you visit http://www.dictionary.com because your English is worse than most Italians, yet alone Australians.

Yes, the RS200 is the homoligation for Group B rally special and the RS2000 a variant of the Mk2 Escort, I'm most aware of that, but the RS200 of the mid-80's is still the car that used to hold the 0-100 km/h record until recently and it has very little in common with an Escort.

If Ford "owns the world" then why are they only the number 3 car maker in the world? Oh wait I forgot, Ford are number one, in your deluded little world. Then again you were the guy who said he had the fastest car in NSW :lol:

Yeh HSV's are good but these days every man and his dog ownes one....not like the old limited edition aeros and stuff......they're still awsome but.

ford man 1984...... u really r stupid.......

i can respect alot of fords..... the old skewl phase three's, XR6 turbo, typhoon (when it comes out) yadda yadda yadda..... and in all that time they have made one good part the 'ford 9"'...... yeah wd for that

all of your mentioned times r soo stupid it sounds like ur 10years old....... ford is the only production car to break the 14 sec barrier..... hahahaahah yeah sure..........
vy ::: i think every LS1 HSV's do the 1/4 under 14........ and akay if ur sooo stupid and don't beleive that fine...... go here www.ls1.com.au
....... if ur so uptight about performance then...... these boys are running constant low 12's in street form with just BOLT ON's....
*KABOOM KABOOM* FARK wat's that outside, ohhh no it's just ur jaw hitting the floor :loser:


and what about the tornana L34 the specs on that weapon were not even realesed.... yeah i bet u a low/mid 13 was cabable

Bottom line.... i have a 5.7l HSV SENATOR VR and from experience these cars r built awesome.... and can't compare to any ss, xr8, xr6T..... bottom line 98% of FORD SUCK

ford was majorly worse than holden UNTIL the BA series... oh and BTW i am more of an import (jap n euro) guy so im biased but.... the ford XR6 turbo kills all of em and the FPV TURBO will be even better... hahaha a 6 cyl TURBO won MUSCLE car of the year in australia.... the thing is now holden has the 3.6 litre alloytec V6 that makes up to 190kw, now that thing i will give sum respect, but not much since holdens just playin a game of catch up... even japanese cars have had DOHC 4 valve per cyl engines for over 20 years!!!

whats yur favarite tipe off hittLer spechial vehical!

http://www.abc.net.au/children/saveums/img/wallpapers/save-ums4_800x600.jpg

bye!

My god, how in gods name did you manage to mispell EVERY word in that sentence?

jimster
do u feel tough disabling sumones account then trying to beat them in a convo?

Really, neither Ford Australia or Holden make anything of any note and none of it is anywhere near clever. Holden use a V Body with an LS1 and Buick V6's and Ford uses a 15 year old floorpan with truck engines and a Straight six that has been around since the Jurassic period. If you want innovation look to Europe, or Japan- but not to the land down-under.
Says you .. :sly:

Holden product is notable enough to be exported to every continent on Earth - except Antarctica. Name another vehicle which offers comparable room, performance & economy .. at similar international-parity price .. to Commodore?

Name another vehicle platform other than Commodore which is flexible & innovative enough to, from the one platform, successfully offer a SWB sedan, LWB sedan, wagon, traytop One Ton, ute, double-cab ute, SUV & coupe variants - the last three also available with AWD. Can you?

Tell me exactly which truck engine Falcon 6cyl derives from, and what truck it was used in? Can you?

Australian cars offer knockout value. For example, if sold in the UK at current $ exchange rates, Falcon XR6 turbo would cost about the same to buy as a dull Mondeo Ghia V6 - I'd call that clever. Which car would YOUR money rather buy?

Holden was considered notable, innovative & clever enough to be tasked by GM to design & develop GM's new premium Zeta RWD/AWD platform, which will appear worldwide under almost every GM marque - including European SAAB, Opel & Vauxhall. In fact Holden own the 'intellectual capitol' rights to the Zeta design. Yet according to quasi-experts like you, Australia is nothing more than an intelligence backwater - methinks that term might belong more to the accuser, rather than the accused ..

And Holden's new compact RWD/AWD Torana concept (soon for a showroom near you) delivers BMW 3-series external size, yet interior size equivalent to 5-series. This entirely new non-Zeta, non-Kappa platform, soon to be exported to the world, was designed & contructed (including parts & labour) by Holden for a miniscule AU$3 million - including the showcar. Please explain how that is that not clever, innovative, or notable?

In your haste to slag off at Australian vehicles/innovation/intelligence, all you do is highlight your own lack of broad automotive (and cultural) knowledge, let alone ignorant bias