BMW: Consumers Just Don’t Understand
igor@af
07-19-2004, 12:58 PM
SUMMARY: <font size=3><font size=2>Ever since the debut of the current generation BMW 7 series, many auto enthusiasts and journalists have been screaming for the head Chris Bangle, BMW’s design chief. He’s the man most publicly responsible for the design change going on at the maker of “ultimate driving machines.”</font> </font>
View full article (http://www.automotivearticles.com/BMW_Consumers_Just_Don_t_Understand.shtml)
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View full article (http://www.automotivearticles.com/BMW_Consumers_Just_Don_t_Understand.shtml)
What do you think about this story? Post your comments below.
MagniloquentFeller
07-30-2004, 03:16 AM
As a devotee of the Bavarian Car Manufacturer, I shall always remain allegiant to BMW. Let me cite to you that Chief of Design Chris Bangle is no rookie. Just the occurence that his creations.... sorry, i mean works of art are getting so much concentration and heed tells you something. Chris Bangle is a rather calm, cool, and collected guy. These are the characteristics in a person a corporation of this magnitude can use. Every where i go, i manage to mark a new 7series gracefully moving about the streets. I see the redesigned 5series repeatedly sauntering through suburb roads with its crisp confidence. The 6series is simply flamboyant and gaudy in both forms, coupe and cabrio. The advertisments of "Land Sharks" are a mere understatment for the outlandish piece of machinery as the z4. The agility it offers and exclusivity is just superb. It retains its roadster feel with its long bonnet and minor-league trunk. As for Chris Bangles IDrive, Whats wrong with it? It is a simple innovation. Sure it might get a little getting use to, but im sure its for the best in the long run. Why encumber a man with criticism for trying to free up space in the cabin and keep the driver more focused on the more significant aspect, driving.
Jetts
07-30-2004, 03:17 AM
the new 7 series is bad as hell!
rollin on 22's
i like the design
rollin on 22's
i like the design
Eamin
08-01-2004, 10:28 PM
Let me cite to you that Chief of Design Chris Bangle is no rookie.
That does not mean that his cars do not have a tendency to be rather ugly. One does not have to be a rookie in order to design bad looking cars, as Chris Bangle has shown us.
Just the occurence that his creations.... sorry, i mean works of art are getting so much concentration and heed tells you something.
Yes. That they are controversial. Controversial does not always equate good. In this instance, it does not mean good.
Chris Bangle is a rather calm, cool, and collected guy. These are the characteristics in a person a corporation of this magnitude can use.
His calmness, coolness, and collectivity really doesn't abrogate the fact that his cars have foregone the handsomeness of their previous generations and have instead embraced oddball styling and Saab-caliber quirkiness.
Every where i go, i manage to mark a new 7series gracefully moving about the streets.
Gracefully my arse. The 7 Series is a vile, monstrous, overdesigned hunk of pure disgustingosity. The "backpack" on the rear trunklid is one of the most horrendous ideas ever to grace the automotive landscape since at least the demise of the tailfin, and the 7 Series carries its backpack in an altogether unacceptable and repugnant fashion. Rear lights ON the backpack? Really! Add to that the "eyelids" above the headlights, as if Mr. Bangle were designing some sort of steel backpack-wearing feline, and the overall design seems to convey nothing short of "completely bizarre."
I see the redesigned 5series repeatedly sauntering through suburb roads with its crisp confidence.
All the flaws that apply to the 7 Series also apply to the 5, though it appears that Bangle's design flukes slowly minimize themselves when he gives himself more practice. If it lacked a backpack, and if it didn't have those absurd headlights, the 5 Series would be a very handsome car. But alas, Mr. Bangle does not share conventional notions of handsomness. Unconventionality may be a great asset in the world of designer fashion or abstract art, but automobiles are neither.
The 6series is simply flamboyant and gaudy in both forms, coupe and cabrio.
I must agree with you here. Mr. Bangle has done a superb job with the 6 - though that omnipresent backpack still spoils some of the fun. However, I like it precisely because it is NOT "flamboyant" or "gaudy" in the fashion of a 5 Series or a 7 Series, but rather conventionally handsome (if perhaps a bit innovatively so) by the standards of a CL-Class or a V50.
The advertisments of "Land Sharks" are a mere understatment for the outlandish piece of machinery as the z4.
The Z4 is overrated, especially when compared to some of its competitors - its predecessor was a far better looking car, though it admittedly (and rightly) had its share of maligners. Cars that so obviously evoke animals just end up looking stupid. Cars should look like cars - it's still very possible to create a great looking, innovatively styled carcar, as Chrysler and Nissan have been showing us.
The agility it offers and exclusivity is just superb.
I agree that by no means is it a poorly-performing car, but from a stylistic standpoint it leaves much to be desired. And "exclusivity?" It radiates "midlife crisis" more than "exclusivity." If I am looking for "exclusivity," I'm afraid BMW hasn't quite hit the nail on the head yet with the Z4.
It retains its roadster feel with its long bonnet and minor-league trunk.
I would agree that these are positive elements of its design. But they are more or less submerged beneath its overt shark motif.
As for Chris Bangles IDrive, Whats wrong with it?
It's wildly unergonomic and ridiculously difficult to use, that's what's wrong with it.
It is a simple innovation. Sure it might get a little getting use to, but im sure its for the best in the long run. Why encumber a man with criticism for trying to free up space in the cabin and keep the driver more focused on the more significant aspect, driving.
Yes, innovation is good. But not ALL innovation is good in its rawest form. IDrive is such an innovation - the concept is an promising one, but the way in which BMW has chosen to pursue that concept is counterproductive at best. What BMW has pioneered, other luxury car makers have quickly seized upon, excised most if not all faults from it, and then installed it in their own mid- to high-end luxury cars (VW/Audi springs to mind).
Eliminating clutter is an admirable goal, but when that elimination of clutter starts to INTERFERE with the driving experience, there is a problem. Really, Chevrolet has a more ergonomical method of turning on seat-heaters than BMW does, thanks entirely to iDrive - if Mr. Bangle is being trounced by such an automotive laughingstock as this, perhaps it's because he did not give his iDrive system the appropriate thinking-through. If he's putting cabin appearance above driver convenience, which is what iDrive is doing whether you like it or not, he could at least craft Audi or Lexus-quality interiors to go along with it.
That does not mean that his cars do not have a tendency to be rather ugly. One does not have to be a rookie in order to design bad looking cars, as Chris Bangle has shown us.
Just the occurence that his creations.... sorry, i mean works of art are getting so much concentration and heed tells you something.
Yes. That they are controversial. Controversial does not always equate good. In this instance, it does not mean good.
Chris Bangle is a rather calm, cool, and collected guy. These are the characteristics in a person a corporation of this magnitude can use.
His calmness, coolness, and collectivity really doesn't abrogate the fact that his cars have foregone the handsomeness of their previous generations and have instead embraced oddball styling and Saab-caliber quirkiness.
Every where i go, i manage to mark a new 7series gracefully moving about the streets.
Gracefully my arse. The 7 Series is a vile, monstrous, overdesigned hunk of pure disgustingosity. The "backpack" on the rear trunklid is one of the most horrendous ideas ever to grace the automotive landscape since at least the demise of the tailfin, and the 7 Series carries its backpack in an altogether unacceptable and repugnant fashion. Rear lights ON the backpack? Really! Add to that the "eyelids" above the headlights, as if Mr. Bangle were designing some sort of steel backpack-wearing feline, and the overall design seems to convey nothing short of "completely bizarre."
I see the redesigned 5series repeatedly sauntering through suburb roads with its crisp confidence.
All the flaws that apply to the 7 Series also apply to the 5, though it appears that Bangle's design flukes slowly minimize themselves when he gives himself more practice. If it lacked a backpack, and if it didn't have those absurd headlights, the 5 Series would be a very handsome car. But alas, Mr. Bangle does not share conventional notions of handsomness. Unconventionality may be a great asset in the world of designer fashion or abstract art, but automobiles are neither.
The 6series is simply flamboyant and gaudy in both forms, coupe and cabrio.
I must agree with you here. Mr. Bangle has done a superb job with the 6 - though that omnipresent backpack still spoils some of the fun. However, I like it precisely because it is NOT "flamboyant" or "gaudy" in the fashion of a 5 Series or a 7 Series, but rather conventionally handsome (if perhaps a bit innovatively so) by the standards of a CL-Class or a V50.
The advertisments of "Land Sharks" are a mere understatment for the outlandish piece of machinery as the z4.
The Z4 is overrated, especially when compared to some of its competitors - its predecessor was a far better looking car, though it admittedly (and rightly) had its share of maligners. Cars that so obviously evoke animals just end up looking stupid. Cars should look like cars - it's still very possible to create a great looking, innovatively styled carcar, as Chrysler and Nissan have been showing us.
The agility it offers and exclusivity is just superb.
I agree that by no means is it a poorly-performing car, but from a stylistic standpoint it leaves much to be desired. And "exclusivity?" It radiates "midlife crisis" more than "exclusivity." If I am looking for "exclusivity," I'm afraid BMW hasn't quite hit the nail on the head yet with the Z4.
It retains its roadster feel with its long bonnet and minor-league trunk.
I would agree that these are positive elements of its design. But they are more or less submerged beneath its overt shark motif.
As for Chris Bangles IDrive, Whats wrong with it?
It's wildly unergonomic and ridiculously difficult to use, that's what's wrong with it.
It is a simple innovation. Sure it might get a little getting use to, but im sure its for the best in the long run. Why encumber a man with criticism for trying to free up space in the cabin and keep the driver more focused on the more significant aspect, driving.
Yes, innovation is good. But not ALL innovation is good in its rawest form. IDrive is such an innovation - the concept is an promising one, but the way in which BMW has chosen to pursue that concept is counterproductive at best. What BMW has pioneered, other luxury car makers have quickly seized upon, excised most if not all faults from it, and then installed it in their own mid- to high-end luxury cars (VW/Audi springs to mind).
Eliminating clutter is an admirable goal, but when that elimination of clutter starts to INTERFERE with the driving experience, there is a problem. Really, Chevrolet has a more ergonomical method of turning on seat-heaters than BMW does, thanks entirely to iDrive - if Mr. Bangle is being trounced by such an automotive laughingstock as this, perhaps it's because he did not give his iDrive system the appropriate thinking-through. If he's putting cabin appearance above driver convenience, which is what iDrive is doing whether you like it or not, he could at least craft Audi or Lexus-quality interiors to go along with it.
mcervantes
08-04-2004, 11:48 PM
I think the final answer to the questions about Bangle's talents will simply be the popularity of the models he's responsible for. Unfortunately for BMW, July didn't look good. The 5 series dropped substantially from July of 2003: 5,313 units in '03 to 2,668 units in '04. The 7 series went from 1,595 units in July '03 to 876 units in July of '04. The Z4 is also down compared to the Z3 last year. The X3 has picked up steam, thanks partly to very nice lease deals (under $300/month).
Personally, I've gotten used to the 7 series in dark colors. I see a bunch of them around Palm Springs all the time. I'd still take an A8 over it in a hearbeat, however. I haven't seen too many 5 series models, but those headlights just look gaudy, IMO.
i-Drive, well.... It was a nice idea. Trying to reduce the clutter of buttons on the IP is honorable, but I think i-Drive was just too far outside of the expected "norm" for many.
I'm just eagerly awaiting the 3 series. Speaking of, didn't Bangle head the design effort for the current model?
Mike Cervantes
AutomotiveArticles.com Editor-in-Chief
Personally, I've gotten used to the 7 series in dark colors. I see a bunch of them around Palm Springs all the time. I'd still take an A8 over it in a hearbeat, however. I haven't seen too many 5 series models, but those headlights just look gaudy, IMO.
i-Drive, well.... It was a nice idea. Trying to reduce the clutter of buttons on the IP is honorable, but I think i-Drive was just too far outside of the expected "norm" for many.
I'm just eagerly awaiting the 3 series. Speaking of, didn't Bangle head the design effort for the current model?
Mike Cervantes
AutomotiveArticles.com Editor-in-Chief
MagniloquentFeller
08-12-2004, 05:08 PM
Upon reading the beginning of your reply, i have determined that you base your arguing motive solely on opinion.
EX: Chris Bangle designs bad looking cars....
Chris Bangles cars have embraced oddball styling and Saab- like quirkiness....etc
You must retrospect that not all people project like you. Now i understand that I have also incorporated opinion in my recent post as well but thats because my opinion is right and everyone thinks like me and wants to be me. :)
As for your remarks of the 7-series' backpacks and lights. The deck lid may befuddle some onlookers at first but when they notice the significant extent to which the cargo room has enhanced, it will send them straight to the nearest synagogue in thanks for Chris bangles sheer wisdomness. As for the 7 series' turn signals above the headlamps, they are conventionally located for purpose. By having more surface area for the blinkers, they keep in touch with road safety by not being too puny for the eye. Same goes for the 5-seires.
As for your remarks on the 6-series, i am fortuitous to see you agree with me that it is a gorgeous and elegant car but i have one nut to crush with your reply. How can you compare the redesigned 6 with a "CL-class and V-50." Do you know what a V-50 is??? Just for reassurance i will provide you with this link for insight... www.allnewv50.com.
-I think i proved my punto.
Ultimately, the z4. Now you uttered that the predecessor (z3) was a much better looking car. Well Eamin, Dont you think if the z3 was better looking they would have kept it and just restyled it a bit??? Obviously the z4 is a much superior automobile that perfects every segment the z3 didnt. Thats the main reason why it can stay ahead of such competitors as the boxster (Porsche, just incase).
Also, what i would so dearly like to know is why are you ridiculing Chris Bangles creations when your profile says you have a 760??? And ontop of that, you purchased a 760 rather than the 745! What Does this show us, boys and girls??? Well, it shows that Eamin has a keen taste for craftmanship and would pay $80,000 (plus $40,000 for 760 treatment) for a BMW. I find this highly ironic since you also critisized IDrive. Last time i checked the 760 comes with IDrive..... Plus, since you own a 760 equipped with IDrive, i am confused because you stated that the IDrive turns the seat heaters on.
Welcome to "IDrive 101"
Lesson One: THE IDrive HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SEAT HEATERS.
I think you should stop being influenced by magazine hype and wake up and smell the perforated BMW leather. Eamin, i think you have no place here in automotive enthusiam so i think it is best if you go back to Graffe.com.
EX: Chris Bangle designs bad looking cars....
Chris Bangles cars have embraced oddball styling and Saab- like quirkiness....etc
You must retrospect that not all people project like you. Now i understand that I have also incorporated opinion in my recent post as well but thats because my opinion is right and everyone thinks like me and wants to be me. :)
As for your remarks of the 7-series' backpacks and lights. The deck lid may befuddle some onlookers at first but when they notice the significant extent to which the cargo room has enhanced, it will send them straight to the nearest synagogue in thanks for Chris bangles sheer wisdomness. As for the 7 series' turn signals above the headlamps, they are conventionally located for purpose. By having more surface area for the blinkers, they keep in touch with road safety by not being too puny for the eye. Same goes for the 5-seires.
As for your remarks on the 6-series, i am fortuitous to see you agree with me that it is a gorgeous and elegant car but i have one nut to crush with your reply. How can you compare the redesigned 6 with a "CL-class and V-50." Do you know what a V-50 is??? Just for reassurance i will provide you with this link for insight... www.allnewv50.com.
-I think i proved my punto.
Ultimately, the z4. Now you uttered that the predecessor (z3) was a much better looking car. Well Eamin, Dont you think if the z3 was better looking they would have kept it and just restyled it a bit??? Obviously the z4 is a much superior automobile that perfects every segment the z3 didnt. Thats the main reason why it can stay ahead of such competitors as the boxster (Porsche, just incase).
Also, what i would so dearly like to know is why are you ridiculing Chris Bangles creations when your profile says you have a 760??? And ontop of that, you purchased a 760 rather than the 745! What Does this show us, boys and girls??? Well, it shows that Eamin has a keen taste for craftmanship and would pay $80,000 (plus $40,000 for 760 treatment) for a BMW. I find this highly ironic since you also critisized IDrive. Last time i checked the 760 comes with IDrive..... Plus, since you own a 760 equipped with IDrive, i am confused because you stated that the IDrive turns the seat heaters on.
Welcome to "IDrive 101"
Lesson One: THE IDrive HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SEAT HEATERS.
I think you should stop being influenced by magazine hype and wake up and smell the perforated BMW leather. Eamin, i think you have no place here in automotive enthusiam so i think it is best if you go back to Graffe.com.
icE_x
08-12-2004, 05:27 PM
no matter what kind of design or model a car is, whenever it's changed you will always have followers and you will always have abandoners
some people like the new style, some don't, that's the beauty of the automotive industry, you can pick and choose what you like and criticize what you don't
and as for the new design, i don't really like the front end much - too aggressive and jus plain weird looking, but we could all say the same about the xA xB and the Element eh
some people like the new style, some don't, that's the beauty of the automotive industry, you can pick and choose what you like and criticize what you don't
and as for the new design, i don't really like the front end much - too aggressive and jus plain weird looking, but we could all say the same about the xA xB and the Element eh
MagniloquentFeller
08-12-2004, 06:47 PM
Ill agree with 75% of your reply...that last part isnt exactly titillating me..
icE_x
08-12-2004, 09:00 PM
i knew you would say that : P
MagniloquentFeller
08-12-2004, 10:04 PM
lol I can be very predictable.. hey you should install some suicide doors on that civic...
icE_x
08-13-2004, 10:08 AM
lolz, if only i had the money - but i'd give her a new paintjob first and keep it looking clean
what do you drive?
what do you drive?
MagniloquentFeller
08-13-2004, 11:43 AM
I had a recent quarrel with the law which left me without a car hitherto.
icE_x
08-13-2004, 02:14 PM
ewwy, sry 2 hear that
MagniloquentFeller
08-13-2004, 03:02 PM
How old are you? Do you have an occupation?
icE_x
08-13-2004, 05:11 PM
17 and i own a web design + hosting business
www.cflcomputing.com
www.cflcomputing.com
MagniloquentFeller
08-13-2004, 06:37 PM
really....can you give me your email, i would like to discuss some subjects with you??
icE_x
08-13-2004, 06:47 PM
email is on the site, but i'll pm it to ya
Jaguar D-Type
05-12-2005, 12:01 AM
The new BMWs are lame.
The X3 isn't even built at a BMW factory. The black bumpers look cheap.
http://shows.dealerrater.com/gallery/2005-geneva-auto-show-lg/img_7127.jpg
The wheels of the revised 7 series are ugly.
http://shows.dealerrater.com/gallery/2005-geneva-auto-show-lg/img_7651.jpg
Now Chris Bangle talks about "GINA."
From NY Times:
AUTOS ON MONDAY | DESIGN
Coming to BMW: Bangle 2.0
By PHIL PATTON
Published: January 10, 2005
CHRIS BANGLE, chief of design at BMW, draws a very clear sketch of the history of his profession.
The metaphor of the automobile as a house on wheels represents the earliest stage of development. Car-as-house was followed by car-as-ship (the streamlined metal-hull era) and car-as-appliance (the responsible, efficiency-oriented period).
But what really interests him is the next stage. In a program called GINA he hopes to change radically the way BMW designs and manufactures cars. The creased shapes of recent BMW's have been polarizing, but to hear Mr. Bangle tell it, he has barely begun.
Word of GINA has trickled out through Mr. Bangle's speeches. He says he will add to his account in a presentation at the AutoWeek Design Forum in Detroit on Wednesday.
"GINA is not a car or a style but a search for a new method, a philosophy," Mr. Bangle explained in a recent telephone interview.
GINA, he said, is a quest for a new design and manufacturing framework that would emphasize materials. "GINA uses as one of its fundamental building blocks the idea of looking for emotion in materials," Mr. Bangle said.
He said he thought designers were close to exhausting the emotional capacity of materials traditionally used in cars. "If the car simply becomes a platform to hang gadgets off, then we will have lost the game," he said.
Mr. Bangle is one of the few designers who thinks beyond simple "brand cues," who still dreams of cars as major cultural objects.
"We're in a period of dramatic stagnation," Mr. Bangle said of the state of auto design. "Such periods usually precede a dramatic change.
"The goal," he added, "is to create a vehicle that is an emotional contributor to the fabric of life."
check here
New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/10/automobiles/10BANG.html&OP=707b8be8/!wcU!Q26K({xKKQ51Q27!Q27kkh!ke!ek!Q3CSQ51KDKU18c{! ekQ20Q3BPQ3FQ5CtQ51D8)
UGLY
http://www.theraceforum.com/images/forum/3031-40-1.jpg
Plus, they attract horrible taste.
http://www.theraceforum.com/images/forum/3031-39-1.jpg
http://www.donzwheelz.com/_common/images/gallery/celebrity/mannyfresh/big/DSC01515.JPG
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/570000-570999/570307_15_full.jpg
http://www.donzwheelz.com/_common/images/gallery/events/sema03/big/Picture%20091.jpg
The X3 isn't even built at a BMW factory. The black bumpers look cheap.
http://shows.dealerrater.com/gallery/2005-geneva-auto-show-lg/img_7127.jpg
The wheels of the revised 7 series are ugly.
http://shows.dealerrater.com/gallery/2005-geneva-auto-show-lg/img_7651.jpg
Now Chris Bangle talks about "GINA."
From NY Times:
AUTOS ON MONDAY | DESIGN
Coming to BMW: Bangle 2.0
By PHIL PATTON
Published: January 10, 2005
CHRIS BANGLE, chief of design at BMW, draws a very clear sketch of the history of his profession.
The metaphor of the automobile as a house on wheels represents the earliest stage of development. Car-as-house was followed by car-as-ship (the streamlined metal-hull era) and car-as-appliance (the responsible, efficiency-oriented period).
But what really interests him is the next stage. In a program called GINA he hopes to change radically the way BMW designs and manufactures cars. The creased shapes of recent BMW's have been polarizing, but to hear Mr. Bangle tell it, he has barely begun.
Word of GINA has trickled out through Mr. Bangle's speeches. He says he will add to his account in a presentation at the AutoWeek Design Forum in Detroit on Wednesday.
"GINA is not a car or a style but a search for a new method, a philosophy," Mr. Bangle explained in a recent telephone interview.
GINA, he said, is a quest for a new design and manufacturing framework that would emphasize materials. "GINA uses as one of its fundamental building blocks the idea of looking for emotion in materials," Mr. Bangle said.
He said he thought designers were close to exhausting the emotional capacity of materials traditionally used in cars. "If the car simply becomes a platform to hang gadgets off, then we will have lost the game," he said.
Mr. Bangle is one of the few designers who thinks beyond simple "brand cues," who still dreams of cars as major cultural objects.
"We're in a period of dramatic stagnation," Mr. Bangle said of the state of auto design. "Such periods usually precede a dramatic change.
"The goal," he added, "is to create a vehicle that is an emotional contributor to the fabric of life."
check here
New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/10/automobiles/10BANG.html&OP=707b8be8/!wcU!Q26K({xKKQ51Q27!Q27kkh!ke!ek!Q3CSQ51KDKU18c{! ekQ20Q3BPQ3FQ5CtQ51D8)
UGLY
http://www.theraceforum.com/images/forum/3031-40-1.jpg
Plus, they attract horrible taste.
http://www.theraceforum.com/images/forum/3031-39-1.jpg
http://www.donzwheelz.com/_common/images/gallery/celebrity/mannyfresh/big/DSC01515.JPG
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/570000-570999/570307_15_full.jpg
http://www.donzwheelz.com/_common/images/gallery/events/sema03/big/Picture%20091.jpg
ifidie2nite
09-10-2005, 07:41 PM
:flipa: You Bangle.
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