The production of cars from different parts of the world is related with their cultures. This thread does not intend to diminish any culture or manufacturer, it is done for plain comparison as how much the cars produced are related to the culture of the regions.

Please add any ideas and thoughts. These will be taken and then an article will be made on this subject.

Japannesse - Small space commonly seen in the hotels and the prices of large properties. Idea of making big things with small objects. For example Hondas and Toyotas small engines producing big horsepower.
People are generally short, fast (ping-pong, karate) translating into small cars, that are nimble and good handlers.

American US cars - Known for its good prices, and consumer mind. Cars offer the biggest bang for the buck in performance (SRT-4, Mustang SVT, Corvette ZO6, Viper). Everything is big in america, spaces are big, people are tall, translating into Big cars with big engines (V8 Muscle Cars).

European - Known for precision and design. Europe has the great attractive structures (eiffel tower, big ben, roman colliseum, pizza tower) etc translating into the best designs in cars (Ferrari, Bmw, Lamborghni etc...) Pioneers for many years in technological advancements seen in wars, translating into precise bulletproof engines and cars.

Once again, this thread does NOT intend to offend anyone. Bring on the ideas opinions, thoughts and observations.

I've always thought that Japanese cars make lots of power out of small engines because their culture is all about maximum efficiency and productivity.

Very good thought process and analyzation, it definately makes sense.

I would give Europe an engineering perfectionist label for their vehicles. Some of the innovations they have come up with (W cylinder design, 7 speed automatic, A 3.2L Inline 6 giving 333hp and 276 Lb Ft n/a)

I would say the Japanese do try to be effecient and get alot out of a little concerning the engines, but I also believe their interior technology, design and beauty (abstract and otherwise) is a key component. I think this respects Asia's clean and organized fashion

North America I believe is focused on not letting its brand reputation get in the way of the quality of its vehicle...Eg. Chevrolet, Dodge, and Ford aren't considered the performance oriented brand, but they produce some of the fastest cars on the market (Z06, Viper, Neon srt 4, Gt(40)). They dont classify each company as having to do one specific thing, but varying things. I believe this also describes its people in a sort of "you dont know wht we can do" way.

hahahaha or mabe I am just thinking way to deep into this.....

I dont like how you put all of Europe under one banner. You use words like precision, which I would only use to describe German cars. Like it the only cars in Europe that actually last are either German or 1980's Volvos. Most of the technological advances are also directly attributed to Germany (or Japan).

As far as design, nobody does it like Paninfarina and the Italians. Ferrari easily makes the nicest looking cars in the world.

Britain is all about big luxury cars. Jaguar makes almost nothing but Luxury sedans (X-Type, S-Type, etc.), and Aston only makes Luxury sports cars (AMV8, V12 Vanquish, DB7, DB9). But at the same time, the best sports cars in the world come from smaller british companies such as Noble, TVR, McLaren, and Lotus.

They dont sell French cars in America so I cant talk much about them. But I know that there design philosophies are somewhere between Japanese and American.

All im sayin here is that you cant put all European cars under one idea. Its varies from country to country.

i agree that cars varies from each country. i think that most technological advances, and good engineering are german, or japanese. italy seems to have great cars too. i wouldnt say europe, cause some european companies have cars that are no better than hyundai, and europe is in a lot of ways similar to japan, more so than the US.

I would give Europe an engineering perfectionist label for their vehicles. Some of the innovations they have come up with (W cylinder design, 7 speed automatic, A 3.2L Inline 6 giving 333hp and 276 Lb Ft n/a)

the M3 CSL makes 360hp out of a 3.2 liter I6

I think people tend to forget the technological advances of America... we are overshadowed by our mere muscle and hunks of SUVs. This is all characteristic of America, but we have our technological achievements as well... 405HP out of a production v8... 230HP and 250lb of Torque from a 2.5 Turbo, running 13s in the quarter. I'd just like to remind everyone, though perhaps not directly represented in our automobiles, we are the most technologically advance nation, and an abundance of things used in the automobile we invented here.

well, sometimes europeans are amused about the american engineering because the opinion "same shit for 50 years" is spread wide.

europeans focus on economy perfection combined with outstanding design. outstanding isn't always meant as "neat" but as "different" -

in our eyes, all american cars are the same -
there are these long bulgy sedans and oversized useless trucks -

http://www.fordvehicles.com/images/ataglance/CRV04REG_vagpgimage.jpg
no way you could show up with this shapeless ship. V8 SOHC? cmon

http://407.peugeot.de/media/design_exterieur_photo_03_zoom.jpg
european design, focus on distinguishability (what a word) 2.2l HDI - contra innovation: lots of unexpected problems possible, not customer friendliest

EU design ownz US design
just look at this 70s citroen cx!
http://www.carolineconnolly.com/fjp/city/b002/citroen-cx-dame-lane-1.jpg

Japanese/asian designs are always kinda agressive and pretend to be sporty imho
small engines, mostly high revving but sometimes very reliable.
choice over european cars when it comes to pricing.

But Asia also produces the smallest, ugliest cars. I heard their roads are a lot slimmer which excuses such things:
http://www.corfucarrentals.com/subaru.jpg

stereotype -
american cars are large, dull assembled, I-dont-care-I-need-4x-more-gas ships

european cars are mid-sized, economic, modern, I-would-fit-in-a-modern-art-museum clockworks with teething troubles

asian cars are small, ordinary reliable/designed, I'm-cheaper-not-better rev-devils

:icon16:

edit:
we are the most technologically advance nation

:loser: europe still is. FSI, DSG, HDI, ABS, ESP, ASR, cats - sorry, but I don't know any american innovations.

well, sometimes europeans are amused about the american engineering because the opinion "same shit for 50 years" is spread wide.

europeans focus on economy perfection combined with outstanding design. outstanding isn't always meant as "neat" but as "different" -

in our eyes, all american cars are the same -
there are these long bulgy sedans and oversized useless trucks -

http://www.fordvehicles.com/images/ataglance/CRV04REG_vagpgimage.jpg
no way you could show up with this shapeless ship. V8 SOHC? cmon

http://407.peugeot.de/media/design_exterieur_photo_03_zoom.jpg
european design, focus on distinguishability (what a word) 2.2l HDI - contra innovation: lots of unexpected problems possible, not customer friendliest

EU design ownz US design
just look at this 70s citroen cx!
http://www.carolineconnolly.com/fjp/city/b002/citroen-cx-dame-lane-1.jpg

Japanese/asian designs are always kinda agressive and pretend to be sporty imho
small engines, mostly high revving but sometimes very reliable.
choice over european cars when it comes to pricing.

But Asia also produces the smallest, ugliest cars. I heard their roads are a lot slimmer which excuses such things:
http://www.corfucarrentals.com/subaru.jpg

stereotype -
american cars are large, dull assembled, I-dont-care-I-need-4x-more-gas ships

european cars are mid-sized, economic, modern, I-would-fit-in-a-modern-art-museum clockworks with teething troubles

asian cars are small, ordinary reliable/designed, I'm-cheaper-not-better rev-devils

:icon16:

edit:


:loser: europe still is. FSI, DSG, HDI, ABS, ESP, ASR, cats - sorry, but I don't know any american innovations.

Wow good post, same shit for 50 years =).

I think people tend to forget the technological advances of America... we are overshadowed by our mere muscle and hunks of SUVs. This is all characteristic of America, but we have our technological achievements as well... 405HP out of a production v8... 230HP and 250lb of Torque from a 2.5 Turbo, running 13s in the quarter. I'd just like to remind everyone, though perhaps not directly represented in our automobiles, we are the most technologically advance nation, and an abundance of things used in the automobile we invented here.

yea we do have lots of technological advances, and great engineering, i just feel that we dont put as much in our cars. but military wise, we have all the best stuff.

the cars that we get from other countries are not always what they have, sometimes its a downgraded, or a slightly redesigned version of their cars.

The only innovation out of the SRT4's 230 hp 2.5L is the price. Sorry, but both Japan and Germany have cars that smash that Power/Displacement ratio, on naturally aspirated cars.

The other American "innovation" that was listed was the 405 hp corvette Z06 engine. Yet again, only good thing about this is the price. BMW got the same power numbers out of a much smaller V8 then the LS6.

O, and dont forget the SMG and Tiptronic (stupid yes, but better then a regular automatic) are from Europe too.

the M3 CSL makes 360hp out of a 3.2 liter I6

Mabe where you live...In Canada the hp is rated at 333....I do admit that I shouldn't have classified all of europe...I don't know very much about french cars ect...but I know Europe as Vw, audi, porsche, bmw, mercedes, lamborghini, ferrari, and such

The cars you listed are from only Germany and Italy. Nothing to do with the rest of Europe.

The problem nowdays in classifying cars into continents much less countries is most companies are multinational.

e.g.

Are these cars American or British?

Vauxhall, Jaguar, Aston Martin, Lotus.

Is Nissan still Japanese or French since it's owned by Renault?

Like someone mentioned before, America and Japan are countries, but Europe is a diverse community.

And I love German cars but I don't believe they're responsible for all the technical advances from Europe. The French (owners of Renault and Perguet group) have nicely engineered cars too.

And if you start dividing Europe up into individual countries, you've got bigger problems.

German or British?

Mini Cooper, Bently Continental GT, Rolls Royce Phantom


German or Itallian?

Lamborghini

the discussion wasn't about their current owners but about their origins in design and technology.
FSI, DSG, ABS, ESP and ASR are german btw. :)

The almighty turbocharger, a german innovation!

y'know, not many people in the world have high opinions of the cars from the u.s.

put it this way, how many outstanding (or even just good) cars can you name?
i for one keep hearing the same ones being mentioned (ford gt, z06, viper....)
now compare that to the number of different cars that these guys actually produce.
then apart from these supercars, all we hear is big talk of the cheap fast V8 or some such car (this is generalisation i know but not far from the truth).
there is no real innovation.
and then there's the question of car set-up.
the british press don't have that high an opinion of american chassis/suspension set-ups...

admittedly when three parent companies owns all of the 'little' brands, things do have a tendency to turn to shit.
it's kinda happening here with vw/audi/seat.....

you can say that we have better cars in europe cos we have a wider choice (of makes), so the manufacturers know that the ones they do sell here must be good or else it simply won't sell.

so in short, europe has more better cars but fewer cars in general.
whereas you have more cars but fewer good ones.

does that seem like a fair comment?

also, are you aware that here in europe, we tend to class cars by there separate nations as opposed to europe/u.s/japan.
we see differences between german, french, italian, british, swedish, japanese and american.

on a side not regading american technolgy....
what has america invented in the last 50/100 years to make engines/cars better?

v-tec?
turbo?
carburettors?
multiple valves?
disk brakes?
4wd?

as far as i'm aware, none of the above....
and your military goods aren't the best in the world either.
i'm not saying that they're bad,
just that they're not exactly the best.
(quote from one of the generals reviewing american products:
'my god, you couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with that'..... this is true. i'll try to find the quote details)

somehow i still get the impression that the japanese engineers are probably among the best in the world and still lead in terms of technology....
in terms of cars, you only need look at honda's diesel engine to get an idea of how they do things.

agree on the inventions but peeps, don't turn it into an US-hater- or America vs rest-thread :)

Lol... 2 things... one. if there is noe nation that has ever been an engineering rival to the US, it would have to be Germany, I'm sorry I didn't mention this before Christophv, you brought it up, but Europe was brought up as a whole. A lot of technologies you guys mention may indeed be American inventions, they just may have been put into Military Vehicles rather than automobiles.

A lot of technologies you guys mention may indeed be * inventions

um.....
how about we play a game of 'insert the name of your country where the * is'?

Ok, well, if you want me to get really damn picky, the modern automobile would not be the same if it wasn't for America... we invented the Steering wheel, and the electric starter, and I'm sure a host of other innovations.

Let's not forget that Henry Ford was responsible for bringing the automobile to the masses.

The US and cars is kind of like the English and football (soccer). More or less invented it, then got left way, way behind :grinno:

But I give the innovation prize to the French.

-Radial tyres (Citroen DS)
-Front Wheel Drive (Citroen 15CV)
-Hydraulic suspension (Citroen DS)
-The hatchback (Though that was arguably done by the Czechs)- Renault 16
-various other less important doo-dads, or ones that I was thinking about that evaded me.

The British however, did bring us Disc brakes (Jaguar XK120), Transverse mounting of an engine (Mini)- but not much else comes straight to mind, but given the enormousness of the BMC at one point, there is probably more.

The US, however has indeed innovated in it's own right- things like the Automatic transmission (1940 Oldsmobile), the moving production line, etc.

i think some people may be missing a bigger picture....cars are more than the gadgets u put in them... and whoever said american cars are consumer orientated... WTF??? i dont live in US but i observe this... they are given the choice of ugly american cars that are heavy, boat handling, gas guzzling barges or DECENT imported cars for a lot more $$$...if u ask me americans get a raw deal. ... since i am a fan of jap and euro cars i will impart my opinion which may be a repeat of what some already said ... Jap: making the best of what you got... 206kw power limit, kei cars, emmisions etc, and u get a car that works well and is fairly cheap. put it this way... to find a fair rival for a japanese performance car u need to pay a lot more for a european car... thats just what i think ... euro: for performance cars euro take the approach of unlimited resources etc.. think of cars mainly made out of CF, the mclaren f1 gold plated engine... etc.. so yeah, thats just me :screwy:

no offence but um, steering wheel and electric starter....
is that the best you can come up with?
take a look at the few things that i mentioned earlier.
they're the kind of things i'm talking about....

I think the main difference on technology between Europe and the US-

In Europe, it's not about how much power you get out of your engine, but how you get the power out of it, see? :icon16:

Sure, 7-litre V8s are durable like granite, but they're rather for trucks.

European engineers would never consider such large engines with maybe 200hp, like in the 60s.

I looked it up, the turbocharger, a pretty much revolutionary innovation, was constructed by a swiss engineer in 1905.

And radial tyres and steering wheels are important innovations - but they have nothing to do with "Relating cars to cultures"

Some American inventions:

- The first car with an actual refrigeration system (A/C) was the 1940 model year Packard

- In 1929, American Paul Galvin, the head of Galvin Manufacturing Corporation, invented the first car radio.

- Buick introduced the first electric turn signals in 1938.

- Cruise control was first offered in the 1958 Chrysler Imperial, New Yorker and Windsor car models

- As far as I'm aware, I believe air bags are also an American invention

That's all I can get at the moment because I have to go fix broken Mercedes Benz. :icon16:

(quote from one of the generals reviewing american products:
'my god, you couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with that'..... this is true. i'll try to find the quote details)

Please try harder to find more info on this, I'm dying to hear who said it and why it was said. :lol:

..that quote was taken from an article in new scientist....
i've got quite a few issues to dig through.....

How about Henry Ford assembling the first production car? Horseless buggies... man I tell you what, Americans and their crazy ideas.

:22yikes:

I wonder what happens when you change the air filter and put in a new exhaust on a horse.

Drunken Monkey... "is that the best you can come up with?" um... ok,
so you can go have a car with a sterring handle and a crank starter, ok, have a nice day.
I would bet good money America has had more innovations than any other country. I'm not trying to say this to be a D*ck, it would actually be rather logical consider the size and diversity of the country.

How about Henry Ford assembling the first production car? Horseless buggies... man I tell you what, Americans and their crazy ideas.

:22yikes:

I wonder what happens when you change the air filter and put in a new exhaust on a horse.
Actually, German inventor Karl Benz and his mate Daimler were the first to make cars.

Blindside- The car radio's back in those days were hopeless though- they drained batteries faster than Aussies drained a bar and they sounded like crap, though the concept is there. The first airbag was fitted to the Mercedes S Class in about 1970-odd, if I remember correctly.

Was it a production car for the masses? I didn't think so.

http://www.ausbcomp.com/~bbott/cars/carhist.htm

I thought this thread was talking about cars in their cultures? Now it has been turned into a "Whoever invented the most is the best" thread. Whats next? Are we going to argue about who are smarter in general? Seriously, does it really matter this much? Everyone still bleeds the same color at the end of the day.

Instead of badgering the technicalities, try to figure out the reasons fpr why their idea's are different. I think this is what MexSir was aiming for when he posted this thread.

sure!

Japanese car - economical

American cars - redundant

European cars - snooty

A FIAT Panda is snooty?

well with the exception of cardboard boxes of course. when I am talking about European cars, I usually imagine the usual - Rolce Royce/Bentley, Benz, Ferrari, BMW, VW, etc, etc.

American, Car and Automotive company firsts:

1909: Christie, in the US, mounts four-cylinder engine and gearbox transversely to drive front wheels.

1910: The first car with safety glass windows as standard equipment is the Cadillac.

1909:Delco, in the US, produces the first coil and distributor ignition system.

1912:Ford Model T: As an answer to the hand crank, Kettering in the US, integrated the starter -- adapted from the cash register motor -- into a complete ignition and electrical system, which included a battery recharged by a generator run by the engine and electric headlights to replace acetylene lamps

1914:The first production car to have all-independent suspension was the 1914 Cornelian, built by the Blood Brothers of Michigan

1915: Cadillac pioneers thermostatic control of the cooling system.

1916: The earliest automated wipers were on the 1916 Willys Knight (US)
Packard sells first production car with a V12 engine, the Twin Six.
Packard Twin Six (V12) model is first car to have alloy pistons.

1919: DMG builds the first supercharged car, 10/30 hp with a Knight engine.


There is many more bnut these are just some and this is not saying American car companies are so much better/greater. Just some1 asked what had the US done for cars in the last 100 years. Well here are just a few.

A FIAT Panda is snooty?
You think he knows what a Panda is? :grinno:

ummm... actually, yes

Oh it's the exception, i get it. Ok, so that means, say, the Renault Clio is also snooty, right? And the 206? 307? Punto? Fabia? Gee, look at all these snooty European cars. Give me a break :rolleyes:

well with the exception of cardboard boxes of course. when I am talking about European cars, I usually imagine the usual - Rolce Royce/Bentley, Benz, Ferrari, BMW, VW, etc, etc.

READ! How many of those cars you named actually made it across the pond and are widely abundant? Gee can't wait to pull next to a Panda tomorrow.

Oh im sorry is this an American forum? Typical fucking attitude. They dont sell them over here so they dont count.

Do i give a flying crap what makes it across the pond? The cars i listed are among the best selling cars in Europe and highly representative of the typical European car. Not everyone drives a Roller or Jag. If you think Rolls, Bentleys and Ferraris are 'the usual', your knowledge of European cars = 0

Garbage? A Clio 182 is one of the finest cars being produced today.

"Choosy of what cars you receive"? The sheer ignorance of that statement. How can i put this so you have a hope of understanding it? Certain European cars don't suit American roads. Most American cars don't suit European roads. Does this mean i should base my opinion of what American cars are by assessing the handful of Chryslers and Jeeps sold here? Think before you post.

oh my, aren't you obsessed? this could go for on and on. and being "typical" American as I am, I'd think you'd have enough sense to stop first and realize it's a matter of opinion. so just to end the argument, I'll state: yes, it's my "ill-informed" opinion, since fortunately, I don't live in Europe and drive these hatchbacks. so why don't you take your Panda or Clio to the nearest autobahn, LOL, and calm yourself? okies?? sorry to hurt your feelings.

Ok, I give up. You’re 100% right. Your understanding of European car culture is exceptionally accurate. Now if you’ll excuse me, Jimster's just arrived. He's just driven over from Italy, y'see, which is half an hour down the road, and I need to move my Carrera GT so I can make space for his Enzo on my driveway.

No thanks, im more choosy over which cars i recycle :)

Im glad we reached an understanding. :)

http://www.euroncap.com/images/results/superminis/renault_clio_1996/renault_clio_1996.jpg

Isnt that's the old Clio there? designed well over a decade ago. Renault is among the safest car makers today, with a bunch of 5* Euro NCAP scorers. Not bad for a bunch of cardboard boxes :)

I only like their Spider.

Good looking, but that's about it. The Clio Williams (as in F1 team Williams) and the 172/182 are much better cars

renaultsport V6 anybody?

This thread didnt turn into what I imagined. But whatever, still interesting to read.

BTW, not tryin to add flames, but the issue about "accross the pond" is an issue because in today's business world, the largest market is...USDM, so for companies it is a concern!
And... BTW, I know this isn't an "American Forum" but let's remember the founder is American, it's medium (Internet) is an american invention, and the language used is the American venacular.

That's a very nice picture, now go and fish the Clio, Megane, Vel Satis and Laguna ones from 1999+ out and tell me what the Star rating is.

The only problem with cars in Europe is that they are driven by Europeans! j/k :biggrin:

and your military goods aren't the best in the world either.
i'm not saying that they're bad,
just that they're not exactly the best.
(quote from one of the generals reviewing american products:
'my god, you couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with that'..... this is true. i'll try to find the quote details)


Just because some unnamed general made some comment on an unnamed piece of equipment doesnt justify a laughably ignorant comment like that. When it comes to military technology, there is not a country or continent that would be worthy of a second place to the US.

When it comes to cars, you'll get no argument from me. From design to engineering the best cars in the world are made overseas.

Drunken Monkey... "is that the best you can come up with?" um... ok,
so you can go have a car with a sterring handle and a crank starter, ok, have a nice day.
I would bet good money America has had more innovations than any other country. I'm not trying to say this to be a D*ck, it would actually be rather logical consider the size and diversity of the country.

i have to agree with this, look how diverse america is, we have people from all nations, and cultures here, which might be part of the reason for our powerful military, we share our knowledge more. although this doesnt reflect as much in our cars, it probably has something to do with our culture. anyways, the type of cars produced from each country probably has to do a lot with culture, lifestyle, and history, nothing to do with human superiority just cause you live in a certain country.

Yea... I'm not trying to put down anybody here, please don't get offended... but I am sick of hearing everyone and their mom rag on America... you don't have to agree w/ everything, but like it or not, this most likely is the best place in the world.

it's medium (Internet) is an american invention,



Really? Have you even heard of CERN?

this most likely is the best place in the world.

:shakehead

I watched this thread since I did my last post...

HOW ABOUT STOP WHININ WHOSE COUNTRY IS THE GREATEST AND POST USEFUL THINGS ABOUT
RELATING CAR TECHNOLOGY AND DESIGN TO THEIR INFRASTRUCTURAL AND NATIONAL ORIGINS?

:thumbsdow

but like it or not, this most likely is the best place in the world.


Not from where I’m sitting.



the founder is American,

No, actually Igor is eastern European.


an issue because in today's business world, the largest market is...USDM


Wrong again.
It’s actually the Asia pacific region where two thirds of the world’s population live. Remember India and China alone make up over two fifths of the worlds population, even if large proportions of their population are living in poverty, each on its own still has a larger number of people able to afford a new car than the whole of North America.

The US % wise is only a small market, it makes up only 2.5% of the worlds population. However, since it controls about 60% of the world’s wealth and resources its population are disproportionately wealthy and seem to be great targets for well designed marketing campaigns. (that means their gullible). This means they are the world’s leaders at spending lots of money on new things they don't need, and so buy more new vehicles every year than anybody else.
This makes them a great target market for manufactors, as they only make money off selling new cars, and being able to sell them at inflated prices thanks to good marketing.
Unfortunately America is extremely protective of its own interests, and so foreign manufactors are faced with heavy tariffs that drive most of their model ranges out of a competitive price range. When combined with a general American dislike for things made in Japan and Germany or anywhere "over there" America becomes a very hard market to break into.

Honda was the first to find away in when they took very base model cars, added a pile of cheap "extras" and rebranded them and sold them through an American owned company called "Acura". Acura is now just a name, the original company has been absorbed totally by Honda, and Hondas are now in fact made in America and exported back to Japan.
Toyota followed with the Lexus brand along with Nissan and the Infinity brand. All 3 now have US market only models that are not sold anywhere else in the world, and all 3 design and manufactor complete model ranges in the US for sales else where in the world.

The Local American manufactors take a very different approach to making and selling cars in the US.
Not worried by the high import tariffs and other restrictions, yet quite keenly aware of the US's high rate of consumerism (Americans like buying things) they build vehicles to suit. That is, they look flashy and have lots of gadgets, but underneath they are often cheaply engineered and assembled, sold at highly over inflated prices and many are designed to have a short operating life as buying a second hand car does not make the manufacturer any money, but buying another new one does.


The American obsession with the "SUV" is a classic example of the US manufactors exploiting the US public. Built on a cheap, simple and primitive ladder chassis most American SUV's are sold with at least a 100% mark up. They allow a huge variety of models to be built off of a single chassis design, and while they are all fitted with lots gimmicks that sound good in a marketing Boucher, or a TV add, things like NVH levels are neglected.
American cars on the other hand are often sold with very little mark up for the manufactor, and are cheap only so that they can compete with the excessive SUV market. A market driven by public ignorance fuelled by immoral marketing. The cars maybe well built and well engineered, but their image is tarnished by the low quality mass produced SUV's from the same manufactors.




Iv been lucky enough to have worked on and driven a very wide variety of cars from a very wide variety of manufactors. Everything from Lotus to Hyundai.
And there is not one generalisation I can make about a manufactor based on its geographical location.

Every manufactor has its own "ideal car" and its own philosophy on how to build, market and sell that "ideal car". These concepts come from the company’s history and the influences of its designers, engineers and senior management. Although the country of origin plays some part in this, it is much smaller than you might think.

The Japanese for example do not build small cars because they are small people living in a small country, they build small cars because most of the Japanese automotive industry started life building cars under licence to British manufactors, or using engines and parts built under licence to British manufactors (or by simply out right copying British designs).
These designs and British ideals where then further expanded upon, and improved and enhanced until they were so much better than the original that they helped lead to the collapse of the very industry that inspired and help create them. A collapse so bad that the many classic British names ended up in the hands of Japanese manufactors, where the process was reversed. Rover was given a new lease on life by building rebadged Hondas, then developing new models off of Honda platforms, and finally building its own models from scratch (Nissan took exactly the same path using Rover designs,) (this is even more ironic when you consider the fact that Honda is the ONLY Japanese manufactor to have designed EVERY single model in its range from scratch and on its own with out using anyone else’s designs.).


Why did the British build small cars?
Who knows! My guess is it has a lot to do with the Narrow roads and general conservative nature of British engineering, and the population in general during the 50s and 60s.

yep, I also think it was connected with the reconstruction after war.
the upper worker class couldn't afford big cars, but there was a market.

the first cars in europe after war weren't meant as status symbols or sports cars, there was no space for such things. of course there was mercedes as the biggest luxury car maker in europe, but the main market was focused on small, functional cars.

even if I think america didn't produce real sports cars either, their suspension and aerodynamics were so different from every european car, especially in the 70s.

I think the design wasn't just a matter of taste-

this european 70s design represents elegance, avantgarde and smoothness
http://home.planetinternet.be/~rtshisto/posters/1972-renault-alpine-a110-1300.jpg

Same year, US design:
http://www.bluemoongear.com/FeatureCars/Rays72AMCJavelin.jpg

the AMC is also rather smooth, but it really transports a rough, brutal image, doesn't it? You can see the blunt power coming at you -

there was no european car that delivered such a thing, ever.

But don't forget, that Renault Alpine up there has a small 1.3l engine and drives over 130mph, and it features a superior handling.
It's a sports car, the AMC isn't.

Now, the powerful brutal image had it's purpose, of course.

Since american cars weren't very pricey, such muscle cars were meant to attract younger people, imho.
And be sure that every boy in europe dreamt of muscle cars, but the european market wasn't for young people, it was either for workers or for wealthy sports car drivers.

Ok, in case you didn't know, there is no East Asian domestic Markets yet... USDM is still the largest... that is one of the reason China emerging into capitalism is a threat to the US, cause it would shift the so-called "center" of the world to their hemisphere. but as of NOW there is no Chinese Domestic Market.
I'm sorry I've never heard of CERN, but I have heard of the INTERNET, which indeed was an American innovation... and whatever you say, most peple will agree this is still the best place to live.

just short words to your patriotism: after all I heard and saw, I have to disagree (have you ever been to europe? no slums, no terror-angst, no murders on tv all day, no action news, no car chases/gunfights etc, no poverty at all? heck, people don't lock their cars and houses here!!)

And you say there's no market in China?
All I can say is DAMN I'm not a businessmen sitting in China right now, because right now it's the time you can make BIG BIG money in this exploding market.

just short words to your patriotism: after all I heard and saw, I have to disagree (have you ever been to europe? no slums, no terror-angst, no murders on tv all day, no action news, no car chases/gunfights etc, no poverty at all? heck, people don't lock their cars and houses here!!)



I've never been to Europe so I may be misinformed. But, there are no slums in London? There is no terror angst in Europe? What about that little incident in Spain a while back? Is their no poverty in some of the Eastern European countries? Glad to see that whole thing about Slobadan Milosavic (spell) was another US media fabrication. Nothing bad ever happens in Europe? I bet nobody's shit stinks either.

Hey I was referring to the EU where I live in - those eastern european countries, russian shrapnels are something different than UK, Germany or France right? Didn't saw any slums in London, Have you ever been to Norway or Germany? My dad took some american customers around here and they wanted to see the slums and couldn't understand there were simply non existant.

Since we were talking about car culture (at least I hope so), and in eastern european countries (which are pretty wealthy too, I went to Croatia last year) there are very few brands, especially brands with history in design and technology, I didn't include them
And no, no one here is anxious about terroristic acts. Only a "Why show anger or fear, it'll only make terroristic organisations stronger" mood.

what the hell has Milosevic, a serbian war criminal, to do with cars relating to cultures?

pleeease go back to topic, I tried to make points with specific target markets and price culture, if you're interested to go nuts for your flag open up a different thread.

no offense, but you're a hypocrite! you're preaching the dribbles of car and cultures, yet between the bulk of your points, your jumping to political issues and regional patriotism. I saw a clash coming when this thread started. People just can't accept opinions and back off after a point has been made. It's only natural that you'd only preach about the cars of your country. Glad I am unbiased in this, since I don't necessarily drive an American car.

And I think you're the one who started this mess by initiating a opinionated :bs: about European automotive technological superiority:

well, sometimes europeans are amused about the american engineering because the opinion "same shit for 50 years" is spread wide.

europeans focus on economy perfection combined with outstanding design. outstanding isn't always meant as "neat" but as "different" -

in our eyes, all american cars are the same -
there are these long bulgy sedans and oversized useless trucks -

http://www.fordvehicles.com/images/ataglance/CRV04REG_vagpgimage.jpg
no way you could show up with this shapeless ship. V8 SOHC? cmon

http://407.peugeot.de/media/design_exterieur_photo_03_zoom.jpg
european design, focus on distinguishability (what a word) 2.2l HDI - contra innovation: lots of unexpected problems possible, not customer friendliest

EU design ownz US design
just look at this 70s citroen cx!
http://www.carolineconnolly.com/fjp/city/b002/citroen-cx-dame-lane-1.jpg

Japanese/asian designs are always kinda agressive and pretend to be sporty imho
small engines, mostly high revving but sometimes very reliable.
choice over european cars when it comes to pricing.

But Asia also produces the smallest, ugliest cars. I heard their roads are a lot slimmer which excuses such things:
http://www.corfucarrentals.com/subaru.jpg

stereotype -
american cars are large, dull assembled, I-dont-care-I-need-4x-more-gas ships

european cars are mid-sized, economic, modern, I-would-fit-in-a-modern-art-museum clockworks with teething troubles

asian cars are small, ordinary reliable/designed, I'm-cheaper-not-better rev-devils

:icon16:

edit:


:loser: europe still is. FSI, DSG, HDI, ABS, ESP, ASR, cats - sorry, but I don't know any american innovations.

Ok, in case you didn't know, there is no East Asian domestic Markets yet... but as of NOW there is no Chinese Domestic Market.


For the love of economists world wide please do not ever utter those words again



I'm sorry I've never heard of CERN, but I have heard of the INTERNET, which indeed was an American innovation... and whatever you say, most peple will agree this is still the best place to live.


That is the equivalent of saying you are a professor of history and never heard of Herodot.

Please learn more about CERN if you care even a little bit about physics. It does house the largest collider in Europe, and it was recently the place where quark-gluon plasma was reproduced, not to mention it is currently in a big race to find the Higgs Boson before Fermilab.

And you would also know that CERN was the origin of the WWW:

Berners-Lee was working at CERN (Centre Européan pour la Recherche Nucléaire; European Laboratory for Particle Physics), in Geneva, Switzerland, when he developed the W.W.W.

http://www.historyoftheinternet.com/chap6.html

Wow, this thread got more out of hand then SRT4 v EVO VIII... As for the arguement of "whos contributed more technology to cars" I would have to say that its pretty even between all the major car producing countries in the world. You could go on for hours listing innovations that Germans, French, Americans, and Japanese have come up with. There is no winning that arguement.

Americans all think that the little European hatchs are as rediculous as all Europeans think that the American love of SUVs is. Really its all an economic/social thing. Americans can afford to pay for SUVs because of the low gas prices. Other then some middle eastern countries, gas is the cheapest in the US. We get gas for less then half as much as the major European countries do. Americans become unhappy when our gas prices topped $2.00/gallon. If prices in Europe were this low you would see many more large cars. But because the price is so high, the average European opts for much smaller, easier to pay for hatchbacks. Personally, I as an American hate SUVs. Why so many soccer moms and yuppies think they need SUVs is beyond me. Its rediculous. There is nothing you can do with an SUV that you cant do with a Truck or a Van, both of which are less expensive.

Cheap Gas = SUV Expensive Gas = Compacts/Hatches

As for America being the better place to live... America has one of the highest per capita incomes in the world, but if your below the average, it sucks. I've done some research on this, and if your not in the upper or higher 50% of the middle class in America, your better off in Canada or Western Europe, where taxes benefit the lower class above the upper class. I love that quote "pretty much everyone thinks america is the best place to live." I cracked up laughing when I read that. That is so typical of what too many Americans believe and too many Europeans think we all believe. If your making alot of money, America is great.

I'd just like to add that there are people who buy SUVs for large cargo space, towing and payload capabilities, and offroading. It's not just for fat asses who like their seats higher.

I agree with DinanM3 on this one. America greatly favors the rich, the business owners, the corrupt merchants of death and oil, especially right now with Bush in office and a war going on.

Z_Fanatic I agree with you, I was pointing out stereotypes in Europe.

When a european pays 30,000€ for a new car, he expects lots of modern technology for that. Power doesn't bait customers here as much as security, comfort and extraordinary design.
In european countries you're allowed to drive at least 85mph on our "highways" (sorry, don't know the exact pendant), and in germany you're even allowed to drive as fast as you want to on most "Autobahnen".

In the 70s, most american cars weren't capable to drive more than 100mph, but in europe there have always been such fast cars. of course they hadn't as nearly as much torque.
that's why rally, touring car championships and other formulas developed quickly in europe and Nascar and drag races in the US.

And that's why I brought up the "old V8? no thanks" opinion here in europe. Of course, there are a lot of cheap cars here, but let's face it, most cars in europe are produced with much more expenditure than in the us.

Americans tend to like long sedans with grills and smooth shapes or big SUVs/Trucks.
People here are very easily bored with designs, so am I.
I can say, I don't like smooth sedans and big SUVs.
That's what I wanted to say, "I don't like this design" not "I don't like america"
Be very sure there are lots of disgusting designs here too.

I didn't write much about the bad things about european cars.
But that might be the lack of knowledge because there are not much disadvantages compared to US technology, afaik.

The disadvantages I found are the high prices and the teething troubles of new technology.
That's all, the technology is still superior.

It's only natural that you'd only preach about the cars of your country
see, if I had the choice to get any car, with anything done to it/in it, be sure it'll be an american muscle car.

I wouldn't say I'm generally biased.
I only know that the Corvette Z28 for example, had basically the same chassis like my old benz down there, but with leaf springs??
That's just not what I would expect from a sports car!
(edit: jup, I know, third generation had coil springs for the rear wheels right?)

For that patriotism thing: I'm german and 100% anti-patriot. The color of my flag is the very very last thing I'd care about, far behind the brand of my toilet paper. I feel as a european -
And I don't think that any car from here automatically ownz other cars.
Show me advantages of US cars, I'm willing to see them.

Of course this was predetermined to become a clash, but I enjoy stormy discussions, no haters please :)
And again, I say european design/technology is superior to the US because of selective buyers, not "the people here are smarter, richer, better and make better cars anyways"

remember, english was taught in school for 8 years, it's not my mother tongue so be polite if there are many faults

Neutrino... what don't you want me to utter?
You must be Mad, last time I checked, China wasn't a capitalist country which means it's whole 1.1 billion potential consumers do NOT make up what we would consider a free market. The entire world is awaiting when the communsit will fall, a capitalist government will be set up, and THEN China will have the largest Market in the world.
And all this America hating... damn, we are your kin for the most part... majority of people in the US are of European descent... so Y did my ancestor leave Europe and come here?

The soviet Union, while Communist gave consumers quite a choice of automobiles to purchase. Wartburgs, Trabants, Ladas, Skodas, Zaz's, Syrenas - etc.
The real difference is that China is a rural country, the western countries in the Soviet Union had industry, the car factories, and the jobs all existed before Communism took over, unlike China which had practically nothing, and for all intents and purposes still has practically nothing. This is changing, however.
I like european cars, the Renault Le Car and the Yugo, were very good cars. The Le Car was everything an American made compact should have been it had a soft suspsension, super comfortable seats, and a decent dose of power - it was supperior to the U.S. made subcompacts however. What this must say about France, is that they're alot like America - only smaller.
The Yugo, is a fun car, but doesn't really say much or anything about Yugoslavia - it comments on outdated borrowed technology and cheap communist labor (communist when it was being sold here in the U.S. anyway) but it's fun as hell to drive, and practical and I'd take a used Yugo over any new subcompact anyday.
My Subaru 360 is an awsome automotive analogy to Japan's economy and society during it's period of production from 1958 to 1969.
The car is very tiny, and very cheap, it has a soft suspension with lots of travel, in 1958 the vast majority of Japan's roads were still unpaved. It runs with a very simple mechanism, and is as basic as it can be, however it represents new thinking, it's shape and the use of fiberglass made it seem very modern when it came out. For many people in Japan, the 360 (nicknamed "ladybug") was the first car they owned. By the end of it's production run, it was outclassed, the Japanese demanded more power, more room, and a more modern design - what had been seen as a triumph of japanese engineering ten years earlier looked very outdated in 1969. It's interesting to note that the 360 was sold in the U.S. and didn't do so well - it was a little too small, and too different for American taste, and the gas shortage was still several years off and nobody had need for a car that could deliver 66mpg economy, but had a top speed of only 69mph.

The entire world is awaiting when the communsit will fall, a capitalist government will be set up, and THEN China will have the largest Market in the world.

that's not gonna happen fool, the government is opening up for twenty years now on their way to democracy.
And this twenty years ago, it wasn't even allowed to own cars, now the chinese send 220 billion sms a year :loser:
A co-worker of my father went there last year and said he went to cities that were indistinguishable from european cities. Yes, I also know there's a contrast to that.

And all this America hating
where?

China is quickly becoming more and more capitalist. Since Britain returned Hong Kong to China, the Chinese government has seen that capitalism seems to work. Hong Kong is easily the most productive city in China, and among the best in the world. China would like to expand the success of Hong Kongs free market. The effect of China's attempt to become more and more capitalist can be seen in the opening of the Shanghai stock market (China's version of the NYSE) as well as others. I recently saw a segment on CNN about the Chinese auto industry. They are actually beginning to build cars with the plan to sell them in America and Europe within the decade. If China can maintain a Capitalist economy then I would watch out if I were Detroit, Munich, etc...

O, and I also saw a page on supercars.net about a version of the New Ford Focus to be sold in China.

True that, plus I know that VW is developing a car only for the chinese market.
Either China will enrich world's market or just eat it up :D

cu

This is the funniest thread. It's great reading what Europeans' and Americans' perception of China really is.

Even the ones with kinder words about China's buying power still miss the mark by about 1000 miles.

VW did a very smart thing by setting up in China as soon as it opened it's markets. That was 1984-1987. The VW Santana (you guys know it as the Jetta I think) is the number one selling car in China right now.

Now it is for all practical purposes a capitalist country. A land of opportunity. VW-Audi still have a strong hold in the car market. Passats, A6's are all being produced in my home town of Shanghai. BMW just opened up a production line for 3 and 5 series. Mercedes is tripping over itself to set up shop. Buick, Mazda, Jeep, Honda all have production lines in China.

And before anyone says it's simply due to cheap labour, don't make a fool of yourself. These cars are made to be sold in the Chinese market. They're not exported to other countries. It's partly to reduce the operating budget. But mostly to appease the Chinese government and attract patriotic buys from the people (as we don't have a local car industry worthy of mention). And of course to dodge tariffs and make the cars more affordable.

So before you label China as a non-market, or developing market, get you facts straight. China's market may be expanding still, but it's already huge.

Ok, as of now, the Chinese market economy is still in infancy. It's domestic Market is no where near the USDM. One of the Euro=project's aims was to set up a new market, the Eurozone, that can no challenge the USDM, and so the Euro challenges the dollar, Y, because the currency a producer accepts for their goods will be that of the largest customer base. Where is the Yuan??? USDM is still the largest, I failed to mention earlier the size is no simply measured in numbers (popualtion) but also in purchasing power!

Neutrino... what don't you want me to utter?
You must be Mad, last time I checked, China wasn't a capitalist country which means it's whole 1.1 billion potential consumers do NOT make up what we would consider a free market.


I must be mad, how interesting, i could swear my Major's focus is international markets and a statement like this:

Ok, in case you didn't know, there is no East Asian domestic Markets yet... but as of NOW there is no Chinese Domestic Market.

would get you laughed out of any of my international business or macro economics classes.

isn't the u.s dollar the highest used currency because of the enormous amount of it exchanging hands in russia, independent of american (business/market) involvement...?

i recall hearing something about there being more u.s dollars in russia than in the u.s.
can someone confirm/deny this?

And before anyone says it's simply due to cheap labour, don't make a fool of yourself.

well, there are many companies moving their production to china because of this. And of course a chinese car assembler is lower paid than a german one, for example.
this is pretty bad for the geman economy, it's simply not possible to produce anything in germany because those dumbasses want more money and work less.

I think another reason why China's market will explode even more is the reason that the people of a "rising nation" feel the need of goods like big cars -
It's quite the opposite in Germany right now, everybody wants little, cheap, economic cars. (excluding me :D)

A quite similar effect can be seen in the USDM, there weren't major changes in the US economy for 30 years now, right? (excluding Bush-era)
Maybe that's a reason why cars haven't changed much since then (referring to the same old V8 and chassis technology now)?

cu

edit: I know that the upper class in Moscow (and there's a very very upper class, 39 billionaires in Moscow!!) only pays with Dollars.
There's a lot lot lot poverty in Russia, but Moscow is said to be the second or third most expensive city in the world, behind Tokyo and London)

cu

Yo, Neutrino, you keep starting w/ me, and I beg to differ I'll never get laughed out of any class I am in.
So you are going to tell me China is a completely Free-market economy? Ok... what about the other future powerhouse... India, Oh yea, there's a huge Indian Domestic Market overshadowing the USDM and devaluating the dollar vs. their native currency... ah, none of this has happened yet. I meam, I'm not stupid, I read on items where it says... "made it China" yes, China has opened up, ever heard the sying "only Nixon could go to China". But, as I originally said, USDM is the BIGGEST market, and yes, this is a fact. People in the far reaches of China (not the more open east coast) do not have the luxury of malls and 7-11s down every block, not yet.
And the Dollar is today what the Pound-Sterling was a hundred years ago, the international currency... nations keep their reserves in dollars and conduct international exchanges w/ them. The Euro is an attempt to challenge this.

7-11s down every block, not yet.

yup, 7-11 the sign you made it!

like Vincent Vega said in Pulp Fiction: They have the same shit like over here, but there are these little differences.

cu

People in the far reaches of China (not the more open east coast) do not have the luxury of malls and 7-11s down every block, not yet.

What does that matter? You don't seem to understand that the only markets important in China are the big cities. The peasant population in rural China won't be able to afford cars for decades. And no one is targeting them. They're dead weight for now but useful slave labour in the future when China's own industry is more developed. City people make about 10 times what villagers make. So chinese industry won't have to set up production lines overseas.

I'm from Shanghai and I go back at least three times a year. And it has three convenience stores every block, huge supermarkets and everything money can buy (no free speech but the locals don't seem to care). It's exactly what the communists used to describe as a decadent, decayed capitalist society.

And I have to say, the streets and parking availability doesn't allow too many big cars. So I'm glad they've gone more European in their tastes. As in VW, Audi, BMW, Peugeot. No Viper, Mustang, Dodge Ram, Corvette. So the theory that developing countries want big cars, not entirely accurate. The company bosses want big cars but they prefer Merc's and BMW's. Not Lincolns. The masses certainly prefer European and Japanese cars to American cars.

Aw, exactly... you have just supported my point... I've been saying that USDM is the LARGEST market for goods in the World. There are two countries, India and China, that have larger populations and therefore potential to be larger markets, but, as I was pointing out, China in particular does not yet have a completely free-market economy, as stated by you, far reaches of china have not yet recieved a market economy yet, and China as a whole is not one big market, and cannot rival the USDM, not yet anyway.

wow this thread is interesting to read

um, should i mention how much of u.s spending (by the everyday man) is on credit compared to that in china?

what does that have to do w/ anything?

credit...as in money you don't have.
the u.s market is 'inflated'.
people are sold things on credit and not all of them actually have the means to pay.

the same is happening in the u.k.
people are able to get credit more and more easily.
they easily owe £20-30,000 in credit.

My outmost regards to the European carmakers who exceed worldwide expectations in terms of performance, build quality and driving enjoyment.

Congratulations to the Japanese automakers for building efficient, reliable cars for a lower price.

I applaud American designers for designing cheap cars which lose value faster than a bicycle does and for applying high import taxation for the above two categories so that their cars seem more attractive.

Ok, I uderstand, but a lot of the money borowed is from within the country anyway, so it is a moot point, we still have the most money. The post above me is reason Y I have to sit here and praise America, stupid comments like that.
Need I remind anyone that GM is the Largest corporation in the World, Ford is most certainly up there as well.

not quite the most money....
as i pointed out, it is said that there is more u.s dollars in moscow than in the united states.....
what that means is that the figures the u.s finance guys give you relating to the amount of dollars is 'false' as it doesn't take into account the amount of cash outside of the country.

admittedly, half of a hell of a lot is still a hell of a lot
but i'm just pointing out that things are never as simple and as clear cut as the numbers show.

you discount the possibility of china ever being a bigger market than the u.s but in the last two/three years since the chinese car market has quadrupled.
it is estimated that in the next year or so, china will stand as the worlds 4th largest car buying nation.
bear in mind that is all happening within the space of 5/6 years and only looking at the car markets.
saying the same thing another way for a different perspective.
in 5/6 years, the chinese car buying market has reached almost half the size of the u.s car market.
that is phenomenal growth and it doesn't look like it's going to stop anytime soon (based on trends in other markets).

Ok, I uderstand, but a lot of the money borowed is from within the country anyway, so it is a moot point, we still have the most money. The post above me is reason Y I have to sit here and praise America, stupid comments like that.
Need I remind anyone that GM is the Largest corporation in the World, Ford is most certainly up there as well.
Ford are up there, but only just- Toyota has taken them over for the number 2 Spot in the Automaker stakes, the only thing keeping Ford Alive is thier trucks, the Focus, Mazda and the Premier Auto Group makers.

Need I remind anyone that GM is the Largest corporation in the World, Ford is most certainly up there as well.


GM stopped being an American company many, many years ago.
Infact the american operation is only a very small part of its global operations, and contributes only a small amount in terms of design and engering. Most of which is now done in Europe and Japan.
Ford is pretty much the same.

wow... this thread is amazing.... i've learned so much. I have a totally different view of the US, EU, and JAP now. Thank you people... This is a 17 year old saying thank you very much.

Need I remind anyone that GM is the Largest corporation in the World, Ford is most certainly up there as well.


Most definitely. Two of the most proficient companies at losing money.

Need I remind anyone that the best Car companies at MAKING money over the past decade are Porsche, BMW, Toyota and Honda.

And what does it say about American cars when the NEW crossfire is based on the outgoing SLK. And another Chrysler (I forget which) is based on the old E-class. So when Mercedes is done with 9 year old technology, they pass it down to Chrysler.

Thats alright, did you know the Honda Accord Wagon, and the Toyota Camry Wagon, two very popular FWD mid-larger size station wagons were both designed in the US? And are even assembled in the US and exported to Japan?

The previous generation Honda Civic coupe was only ever built in the US, yet was exported to Japan and Australia.

There are actualy plenty of cars designed and manufactored in the US, many useing some quite modern technology, its just that not all of them are made by GM, Ford or Crysler.

Im proud of starting this thread, so many useful and interesting information!

:)

Ok... no one can read I guess... I didn't say they were the BEST companies, or the most PROFITABLE, nor did I say They were only in America, I was reminding you that by sheer volume, not volume of sales, simply size of the company, GM is the BIGGEST company in the World; pretty sure Exxon-Mobile is next. Ford is also Among the top 50, but no where is Toyota, Honda, etc.

would you rather own a huge business that is losing money or a decent sized business that making piles and piles of it?

Ok... no one can read I guess... I didn't say they were the BEST companies, or the most PROFITABLE, nor did I say They were only in America, I was reminding you that by sheer volume, not volume of sales, simply size of the company, GM is the BIGGEST company in the World; pretty sure Exxon-Mobile is next. Ford is also Among the top 50, but no where is Toyota, Honda, etc.
You must be reading an outdated list, the Toyota worldwide production is more than Ford, as are thier earnings.

GM is the BIGGEST company in the World; pretty sure Exxon-Mobile is next.

GM? GM makes 27.5 Billions year -

Mitsubishi, with over 26 divisions including chemical corporations, estate corporations to finances makes more that 117 Billions.
0wn3d!
Well, GI is pretty much the biggest corporation in the World when it comes to customers.

Exxon is big, but not that big. You pretty much forgot those Megacorps from Asia and Europe.

Honda is also in the top 50 compaines in the world. Honda Motor Co. Revenues are different from profits.

Look at the Global 500 companies, then you see the figures, there are companies in the world that are in the top 100 but have negative marginal returns. They are going down the rabbit hole.

Yea... I'm not trying to put down anybody here, please don't get offended... but I am sick of hearing everyone and their mom rag on America... you don't have to agree w/ everything, but like it or not, this most likely is the best place in the world.

Nope, the UN has for like the fourth year in a row announced Norway (Europe) as the best country in the world to live in.. !

And I went there and I can really say-

very nice indeed :)

(they're so rich, they heat the sidewalks so there's no ice on it. very comfortable.)

GM? GM makes 27.5 Billions year -

Mitsubishi, with over 26 divisions including chemical corporations, estate corporations to finances makes more that 117 Billions.
0wn3d!




Eh! Wrong.

Mitsubishi Motors, Mitsubishi Chemicals and Mitsubishi Electronics are all 3 differnt corperations.
After WWII the single company was split into three, as it posed to great a risk to western companys trying to get a foot hold in Japan, and held far to much control over the Japanese economy, preventing the rise of new and orginal Japanese industrys which were needed to help rebuild the country.

All that talk about the biggest company is somewhat irrelevant.

GM can be the biggest for all I care. The key point is they don't make cars that I want to own.

BMW and Porsches are more desirable worldwide.

BMW and Porsches are more desirable worldwide.

Well of course. They are contempory car brands after all. :rolleyes:

They are contempory car brands after all. :rolleyes:

:eek7:

Explain your use of the word "contempory".
After all, many of GM brands are contempory car brands as well.

:eek7:

Explain your use of the word "contempory".
After all, many of GM brands are contempory car brands as well.
Exactly. Opel, Vauxhall, Holden and Chevrolet are the only GM brands I wouldn't call contemporary.

Eh! Wrong.

Mitsubishi Motors, Mitsubishi Chemicals and Mitsubishi Electronics are all 3 differnt corperations.
After WWII the single company was split into three, as it posed to great a risk to western companys trying to get a foot hold in Japan, and held far to much control over the Japanese economy, preventing the rise of new and orginal Japanese industrys which were needed to help rebuild the country.

jup, they're indepentend from each other, legally wise (can I say that? sry for bad english)
But not only into three, there were over 200 companies, organizations and so on.

I just read Mitsubishi Motors is owned by Daimler-Chrysler with 37%.

--


This thread is extraordinary for AF, real cultural exchange and Company vs. Company :D

gave it 5 stars :)

jup, they're indepentend from each other, legally wise (can I say that? sry for bad english)
But not only into three, there were over 200 companies, organizations and so on.



Yeah, I knew there were a few, but didn't realise it was so many.

Heres a list of all of them: http://www.mitsubishi.or.jp/e/contents/contents_2.html

And it includes a good link to the companys history explaining how there came to be so many.

would you really rather live in Norway than the US
(BTW, somebody has to pay for all that, don't forget it is a big social wlefare state)

Can we get off this "THE BEST PLACE TO LIVE CRAP".

There's no such thing. It's very subjective. Big city, country town, cold, hot, ethnic make up of the society. All that differs depending on who's choosing. You love the US. Good for you. Don't assume everyone agrees with you. And certainly don't assume they're wrong to not agree with you. We won't come to a consensus on that.

What we do have in common is we love performance cars. So let's stick to that.

Can someone explain to me the attraction of a supposed American icon. The Camaro SS. It is IMHO an ugly pile of crap that makes a lot of unwelcome noise. I prefer the sleeks lines of Aston Martin and Ferrarri, the high pitched whine of the E46 M3's engine. The low rumble of a V12. Why the fascination with AMERICAN MUSCLE. Is it patriotism or something that's built-in to the psyche from a very young age?

Can someone explain to me the attraction of a supposed American icon. The Camaro SS. It is IMHO an ugly pile of crap that makes a lot of unwelcome noise. I prefer the sleeks lines of Aston Martin and Ferrarri, the high pitched whine of the E46 M3's engine. The low rumble of a V12. Why the fascination with AMERICAN MUSCLE. Is it patriotism or something that's built-in to the psyche from a very young age?

Why would you even bother comparing the Camaro SS to Aston Martin's, Ferrari's, and an M3? Anybody driving a Camaro would be happy to give it up for one of those cars.

And the US isn't the only place that likes muscle or the sound of a big bored V8. Ever driven or heard an SL55? The exhaust note on a 230 makes a Carmaro with a Flowmaster sound like a mouse.

would you really rather live in Norway than the US
(BTW, somebody has to pay for all that, don't forget it is a big social wlefare state)

HELL yes, I went there for like one week and saw only one ugly chick :grinyes: :grinyes: :grinyes:

agreed on that sound.
I was crossing my street some weeks ago and heard really loud engines, I thought there were guys driving w/o exhaust.
I turned back and saw two Ferrari 550 convertible cruising with some rich guys in them :eek7:

Ferrari engines sound like they're always driven at the redline.

:eek7:

Explain your use of the word "contempory".
After all, many of GM brands are contempory car brands as well.

Sorry for my late reply. I can only do this when I’m at work.

Anyway, contempory refers to a kind of market. A contempory market is made up of people who only buy the best regardless of price. They are generally you're upper class people that purchase by name brand ie Porsche, Bang & Olufsen, Gucci, ect.

Another market is named traditional. These are you’re value for money folks. They would make a purchase based on the product itself regardless of who made it. This usually involves a lot of observations, research and asking questions in order to get value for money.
Brand examples: Toyota, Panasonic, cloths from Target, Kmart ect.

The last market is called volume. These days they are a rarely people who subscribe to this market. The volume buyer is usually the person who wants to spend as little money as possible regardless of quality. They nearly always buy the cheapest.
When there’s a special on they will generally buy as many goods as possible, often more then they need (Obviously this applies more to things like toilet roll and food rather then cars and white goods).
Brand examples (If they had to buy new): Lada, Palsonic, cloths they find in the bargain bin at department stores.

Now these are generalisations. And many people will change there market behaviour when buying different goods and these buying habits are not limited to a persons financial status ie a person who earns less the 18K a year may go out on a limb to buy the expensive brands, and that old man with his second hand cardigan filling his trolley with store brand toilet roll could be a millionaire.
I should also point out that second hand goods do not count in these market descriptions.

Just my :2cents:

From http://dictionary.reference.com/


con·tem·po·rar·y ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kn-tmp-rr)
adj.
Belonging to the same period of time: a fact documented by two contemporary sources.
Of about the same age.
Current; modern: contemporary trends in design.



It has nothing to do with cost or quality, or type of people.
Its a refernce to a place in time, being the current place in time.


A mini is a contemporary car, as is a new Nissan Maxima, and a new Ford F150.


Since almost all the brands under GMs ownership are used somewhere in the world on a car, or cars designed in the last 5 years then all can be considered comtemporary brands.

The word Contemporary was a word I picked up from a course book on marketing research a few years back. I’m surprised that the literal meaning is different but I suppose it is better to go with the dictionary on this one. My apologies to any mislead by my misappropriate use of abovementioned word. :smile:

The word Contemporary was a word I picked up from a course book on marketing research a few years back.


I think it would have been in refernce to buying trends, or marketing styles at the time at the time the course book was written.
You have to be very careful useing the word contemporary in written works, as whats contemporary at the time of writing won't stay contemporary.

just short words to your patriotism: after all I heard and saw, I have to disagree (have you ever been to europe? no slums, no terror-angst, no murders on tv all day, no action news, no car chases/gunfights etc, no poverty at all? heck, people don't lock their cars and houses here!!)

And you say there's no market in China?
All I can say is DAMN I'm not a businessmen sitting in China right now, because right now it's the time you can make BIG BIG money in this exploding market.


http://speed.supercars.net/Board?viewThread=y&fID=4&tID=125868

Can someone explain to me the attraction of a supposed American icon. The Camaro SS. It is IMHO an ugly pile of crap that makes a lot of unwelcome noise. I prefer the sleeks lines of Aston Martin and Ferrarri, the high pitched whine of the E46 M3's engine. The low rumble of a V12. Why the fascination with AMERICAN MUSCLE. Is it patriotism or something that's built-in to the psyche from a very young age?


thats the most retarted post ive read in a long time("Compare any cars and find out what every body else thinks. Just refrain from making stupid comparos like Viper vs. Geo Metro") , comparing a $28,000 car to a $80,000+ car?! ummm lets see, American Muscle is so loved bc its cheap, very powerfull, and available to the masses. Id rather have a '69 Pontiac Firebird 400(i think it looks nicer, most beautiful car ever) then a Aston or Ferrarri, if i got a GTO, it would be a Pontiac(i am a weirdo fyi). I could mod one of those with all the money i saved. Just wondering have u ever ridden in a Muscle Car? Also i dont like high pitched wines, it sounds dorky and wussy, give me a nice low growl. Pluss if u want to be fair(which comparing a muscle car to a "super car" is not) a Ford GT or Dodge Viper would whoop the cars u mentioned.


but remember im quite strang.