racing with a automatic?

yes, neutral dropping is REALLY REALLY BAD

I don't think there could be a set answer to this question as each type of transmission is geared for a different style of driving. I'm sure every person could argue which they like better or which is more fun, but thats purely subjective.

I personally believe an automatic can be built to do anything a manual can, just without the clutch, the ONLY thing I would argue for a manual is that they are more efficient than a 'slushbox'. I personally drive a manual in my fiero. I HATE TRAFFIC. I swear, by the time I'm 30, my left leg will be 3 times the size of my right. (Unless I keep a good excersize on the right pedal :) )

Oh, and I was reading to see if there were any articles that had test data to prove one over the other, I had to quote this for manual transmission cars:buying a stick-shift will ensure that fewer family members or friends can borrow the car and thiefs are less likely to steal it

:iagree: haha.

automatics are ok especially for us lazy people

go ahead and race in ur automatic car and break it. if u can drive manuel u dont belong racing. c'mon if u saw a racer driveing an auot at the track hed be laughed at

LOL its so funny u ever notice the only people that think automatic cars are fine are mustang guys. mustangs arent even good(except the older ones) but today i hate how people think there so good plus when thay are auto they are 10x worse

look how far my thread has gotten

KAszak, who do you think you are some professional driver, you probably drive a ford festiva. I personnaly don't think mustangs are the greatest and I have met a lot of mustang drivers that need an atitude check, but then i've done some dyno tuning on mustangs that will probably make you cry when they leave you in the dust.

automatics slow? HUH? the only reason an automatic is slower than a manual is becuase autos usually have 4 gears where a manual almost always has 5 gears. My car is an automatic, and i can run mid 14's and pull 2 flat 60 ft times. And thats a stock trans, suspension, and tires.

Are you guys serious? I'm assuming youre talking about drag racing. In this case an automatic is the BEST. An automatic powerglide is the best transmission for straight drag, it doesnt have a high top end but the acceleration is viscous. Besides, even with a regular automatic u get consistent times, don't have to worry about missing the optimal shifting time and stalling. With the new 7 speed automatics and manual mode the only place for a manual is a bike. Of course economy cars like civics will be the last with true clutch manuals, even the most extreme sports cars are switching to automatics. For example porsche's tiptronic.

go ahead and race in ur automatic car and break it. if u can drive manuel u dont belong racing. c'mon if u saw a racer driveing an auot at the track hed be laughed at

This has to be one of the stupidest remarks I've ever read. Almost every form of racing now use automatics. They shift faster than any human ever dreamed of. Cart racing, dragracing, bigfoot, desert racing everything uses automatics.
I have 2 1/2 cars and they all have automatics. Why? I'm a poor fuckin looser, I hate to lose.
I have a Street legal, with street legal DOT tires, full interior car that turn's in the very low 10's@144MPH. SEE ALBERT IN THIS SITE:

http://www.dragtimes.com/Nissan--300ZX-Drag-Racing.html

I also have a Pro Import that runs in the mid 7's@185MPH. Too fuckin slow to be competitive anymore so building a new car, thats lighter, much more power and hope to be much faster.
What do these 3 cars have in common? Automatics, the choice of champions. Look in the winners circle. There's your fuckin proof.

Albert

LOL karting doesnt use automatic! Only like ICA, Shifter uses techtronic and guess what they go faster than cars! auotmatic doesnt shift faster than mauel its just smoother cez the clutch and the throttle are so evenly balanced. but manuel is the fastest way to shift idc wut u think, ur probly like 10 yrs old and watch nascar.

auotmatic doesnt shift faster than mauel its just smoother cez the clutch and the throttle are so evenly balanced. but manuel is the fastest way to shift idc wut u think, ur probly like 10 yrs old and watch nascar.

Huh? What did he say? :rolleyes:

This thread has drifted from the posters original question to Mustang bashing, to incorrect statements re: use of either type trans and generally full mis-statements. :grinno:

In performance driving the purpose of the trans is to get the power to the road with the engine operating in the desired power curve. The optimum way to do this would be with a infinitely variable speed transmission. IE. If the peak engine performance was at 5200 RPM, you would want a trans that would keep the engine always at this RPM while keeping the wheels at the limit of longitude adhesion. (Forward)

The closest we see to this is with the Top Fuelers. They use a multiple disc clutch that is "programmed" (mechanically) to slip enough (in conjunction with tire slip) to keep the engine in it's power band for the full 1/4 mile.

Auto's with a higher speed torque converter also attempt to achieve the above. However since they don't have infinitely variable ratios, they depend upon 3 to 6 rpm operating ranges. Still hopefully keeping the engine at it's peak operating RPM range.

Sticks are a bit harder to do this with, but they do have some advantages in SOME cases. The biggest single one is the ability to "store" HP in the engine rotating mass. On the hole shot and between shifts, the rotating mass is accelerated and energy is stored. (and it's is substantial). When the clutch is engaged, this energy is now released into the drive train and assuming it is released to the track correctly will add to the engine HP. This same energy is used during "power shifts". These energy releases can help at some times and were great in the old days before they had the current stock of very efficient automatics. It was mostly seat of the pants feel though. And the relatively very slow shift speeds are a big disadvantage. (along with repeatabilty and consistancy loss)

Today's computer/hydraulic controlled lighter weight, variable pitch/lockup torque converters, etc. automatics in conjunction with todays wide power band engines are far better than sticks for most applications.

Road racing (for the most part) still needs manuals. But even this venue can be optimized with computer controlled autos.

The true "stick" will be gone in a few years. It is inefficent, noisy, somewhat un-environmental and a pain in traffic :smile:

The ultimate answer (with the gas engine) will be an infinitely variable speed auto. It will optimize efficiency and performance. It just ain't here yet.

I suspect the effective electric engine which can negate the use of shifting at all, will be here first.

AND.... I am not a big Ford Fan, but the biggest production stock HP I have ever seen on our dyno is a MUSTANG. The Blown Cobra in stock trim will put 400hp to the rear wheels. Very under rated. Even the Lightnings get very close to these numbers. With AUTOS.

Ask BJ. He has helped with some of those dyno runs.

Jim
SR Racing

I highly doubt that the "stick" will be gone in a few years. Personally I'd rather drive a stick because you have more control over the car. If you have 2 completely stock cars 1 automatic and the other a stick, the manual will win everytime. Auto's lose around 30% of the power through the tranny and manuals lose roughly 15%-20% of their power. I'm not saying that auto's aren't fast because you can make any car fast if you have the right amount of money. but stock for stock manuals will be faster down the strip, granted you know how to drive and dont miss any shifts.

I highly doubt that the "stick" will be gone in a few years. Personally I'd rather drive a stick because you have more control over the car. If you have 2 completely stock cars 1 automatic and the other a stick, the manual will win everytime. Auto's lose around 30% of the power through the tranny and manuals lose roughly 15%-20% of their power. I'm not saying that auto's aren't fast because you can make any car fast if you have the right amount of money. but stock for stock manuals will be faster down the strip, granted you know how to drive and dont miss any shifts.

The "stick" will be absoleted in the next 10 years. There will be a few "paddle shift sticks" around as fads. However the new autos and future infinitely variable boxes will be far better in most any use.

In regards to stick vs auto on the drag strip, that is incorrect. Autos with correctly set up gearing and converters already can put more power to the strip.

The 30% loss figure is incorrect and not understood anyway. Todays autos are much more efficient and on a drag strip the "losses" in the converter are actually desirable since they can apply just the necessary HP to the wheels while keeping the engine operating in the peak HP range. You can't do that with a stick unless you have a "programmed" clutch pack for controlling power delivered to the wheels. ala Top Fuel, etc.)

Today, with low torque/hp engines the manual is usually more fun to drive, but that's about it. Technology will always dominate and the auto is the future.

Jim
SR Racing

Manuals will NEVER die until the internal combustion engine dies, simply because a huge number of people just like driving them. In europe, its more common to have an manual than an auto, and its often very difficult/special order if you want an auto.
An race automatic shifts faster than a human operated manual. It is almost instantaneous. Race automatics and passenger car autos are COMPLETELY different animals. An passenger car's auto shifts slowly and easily. A race auto bangs the gears very hard.

Infinitely variable transmissions are already available in production cars. Look at the Audi TT and saturn vue. They're too weak to be put in any really powerful cars. When they are stronger, they'll be the fastest things out there.

Manuals will NEVER die until the internal combustion engine dies, simply because a huge number of people just like driving them.

Never? Same thing that was said about power brakes, power steering, and anti-lock brakes. <GG> They are here and they have obsoleted the past.

As I said it is a fad. People just like them (manuals).

Infinitely variable transmissions are already available in production cars. Look at the Audi TT and saturn vue. They're too weak to be put in any really powerful cars. When they are stronger, they'll be the fastest things out there.

Exactly. In the future the variable transmission will dominate. They will be faster and more economical.

With continued EPA regulations, the variable unit will almost be mandated. It will be the only way that the internal combustion engine will meet pollution and MPG regs.

Jim
SR Racing

Its not a fad if it doesn't die. Autos have been around for 50+ years, common for at least 35 years, but manuals are still around. Probably more popular(not in the USA). Even when CVTs are common, manuals will still be around. CVTs will replace automatics. Unless laws are passed to outlaw manuals(less efficient than a CVT, gas crisis), they will still be desired by many so they'll still be produced. They'll only be gone when the internal combustion engine is phased out(run out of oil) and we start driving cars powered by electric motors.

Its not a fad if it doesn't die.

That's the point. They WILL die. Just like hand crank starters. At this time they still do have some advantages. But they won't in a few years.

Autos have been around for 50+ years, common for at least 35 years, but manuals are still around.

As were 6 Volt systems, ignition points, and a dozens of other things. They all died.

Even when CVTs are common, manuals will still be around. CVTs will replace automatics. Unless laws are passed to outlaw manuals(less efficient than a CVT, gas crisis), they will still be desired by many so they'll still be produced.

In vintage cars and possibly for special applications. And sure, there may be a few aftermarket suppliers that will provide them. But for all practical purposes they will be as dead as the 6 volt system (actually the 12V system will be dead in a few years. <g>) and hand cranks.

They'll only be gone when the internal combustion engine is phased out(run out of oil) and we start driving cars powered by electric motors.

Yes the fossil based internal combustion engine may die along the same time line.

I remember when the luddites said that power brakes and steering would never take hold also., Those damn electronic ignition systems would never catch on because they are too much trouble, etc. etc.

Jim
SR Racing

With continued EPA regulations, the variable unit will almost be mandated. It will be the only way that the internal combustion engine will meet pollution and MPG regs.

People underestimate the importance of aerodynamics on efficiency. Just check out the 300+ mpg Aptera.

That's the point. They WILL die. Just like hand crank starters. At this time they still do have some advantages. But they won't in a few years.

I doubt somebody was sad to see hand crank starters go. The thing about a manual is that it gives you a better FEEL of the whole system. Having that extra bit of control benefits the whole driving experience. I personally want a manual transmission with a mechanical clutch linkage (instead of a hydraulic one) for that extra bit. I want to feel pebbles under the tires through a granite-hard suspension. Driving isn't something to be endured for me; it's an enjoyable experience each and every time. I'm a true car nut.

(Did I mention I want to start my own car company? It's the whole reason why I'm studying mechanical engineering right now.)

please dont bring back old threads, this is 2 years old. can a mod please lock this.

KEVINTHREAD!!!!!! ya got some MONEY yet? I'm giong to school for engineering at 26 'cause I finnally realised working in a fiberglass shop wasn't going to provide the flow. Hey, 2.2 straight 6 is trying to kill creativity! I want to impliment a continuously variable tranny in my car to be able to tune the engine to run as a very narrow powerband, high efficiency powerplant, but I have owned one auto-an american- and I owned that son bitch-for about a week till I sent it to the metal yard. THE ENTIRE WORLD drives standards, we in the U.S. are either lazy or uninformed to the benifits.
YES, automatics have ruled racing. DRAG racing-soo 1970. 'Cause of smooth tourque delivery. IN real racing (sorry NASCAR fans) ;standards are the rule. Yes, Nascar uses sticks, it only falls in to my category of FAKE racing. German engineeredCVT's will rule the roost when combined with direct injection. And, sorry, gas is f**cked, too. The direct injection diesel was engineered for biodeisel in the late 1800's, it works better with it.

KEVINTHREAD!!!!!! ya got some MONEY yet? I'm giong to school for engineering at 26 'cause I finnally realised working in a fiberglass shop wasn't going to provide the flow. Hey, 2.2 straight 6 is trying to kill creativity! I want to impliment a continuously variable tranny in my car to be able to tune the engine to run as a very narrow powerband, high efficiency powerplant, but I have owned one auto-an american- and I owned that son bitch-for about a week till I sent it to the metal yard. THE ENTIRE WORLD drives standards, we in the U.S. are either lazy or uninformed to the benifits.
YES, automatics have ruled racing. DRAG racing-soo 1970. 'Cause of smooth tourque delivery. IN real racing (sorry NASCAR fans) ;standards are the rule. Yes, Nascar uses sticks, it only falls in to my category of FAKE racing. German engineeredCVT's will rule the roost when combined with direct injection. And, sorry, gas is f**cked, too. The direct injection diesel was engineered for biodeisel in the late 1800's, it works better with it.

i have absolutely no idea what any of that meant.

i wasn't trying to "kill creativity" you're not meant to bring back old threads. especially one's that've been dead or dormant for 2 years.

and please, this is an english speaking forum, please make your posts as least coherent.

Thread closed.

This is an english language forum, please use a readable level of punctuation and grammer in your posts.