Ok, i was thinking about some of the cars i see driving aorund locally and i realised something, there are some real butt ugly cars on the road. So whats everyone's pick for uglyist car?

I went with the PT Cruiser. I can't help but laugh every time i see one of those things, i just can't get over how ugly they are. What's really funny is the police where i live have decided to use them as their new highway patrol vehicles, thinking they'll blend in and be hard to spot. :D

Aztek, and it's ugly brother, the Buick Rendezvouz. :apuke:

AMC Hornet
Gremlin
Anything based on the Chevy Citation hatchback.

What the heck were they thinking when they created the Ass-tech? It is butt ass ugly!

that aztec is pretty discusting...they need to hire some real designers..

acura rsx. they look like a cartoon exaggeration of the previous integra. like if they drew an integra in that max boost comic strip in import tuner magazine, it would look like an rsx. it has absolutely NO subtlety or elegance to it at all

yup the rsx and all the previous civics U G L Y (actually just played out)

Just thinking of the aztec makes me sick, i mean who would drive that thing?:bloated:

Originally posted by jay@af
Aztek, and it's ugly brother, the Buick Rendezvouz. :apuke:
no doubt about that

Well I'm in England and we don't have most of those cars here (I voted for the Aztec) but we have the Toyota Yaris Verso which is a Toyota Yaris supermini with a big box thing on the back.

Originally posted by Swoxy
Well I'm in England and we don't have most of those cars here (I voted for the Aztec) but we have the Toyota Yaris Verso which is a Toyota Yaris supermini with a big box thing on the back. Oh... :(

I don't really mind the ECHO/Vitz/Yaris, but this is really bad... And I normally like wagons...

Toyota Yaris Verso
http://www.autowebsport.com/Salones/Ginebra/verso/yarisverso.jpg

fucking geo metro. put that shit up on there. those new civics though, dang, so nasty.

They're all gay

That is REALLY close, but the Aztec takes the cake.

the aztec eats a dick.it look like something out of judge dread.i epecially like the wheels.

aztec is horrible, ugliest car in my near memory.
acura rsx isn't all that bad. I test drove one two weeks ago. It is really fun to drive and its looks really grow on you, I now think it is a decent looking car. trust me that in person they are better looking

I have railed against that AzCrap since GM decided to build that pile of siht.

ive seen rsxs in person and the look sure aing growing on me. but now that i think about it more, im changing my vote for the aztec. discontinued after one year of production, why do u think that is???

all the cars on the list are ugly, but i must add one, the civic hatchback...or basically any hatchback cept 4 door golf, i reallydont know what people are thinkin when the put so much money into civic hatchbacks, theyre so dam ugly

4 dr hatches are fugly...

newsflash..
people drop money into a 3dr hatch b/c they are lightweight... and they look better than four doors... specially a golf 4 dr...
and the four door is heavy and slow....

i really dislike the cadillac ext or whatever that is based on the avalanche... also ugly mobile...

I was torn between the aztek and the PT. I vote for the PT cause I see so many more of those ugly underpowered shitboxes on the road. I find it hard to belive people shell out 20k + for a 4 banger powered wannabe sedan delivery/ minivan/ christ only knows what. Would it have been that much harded to make a V-8 powered RWD car that actually would have made a nice addition to the concept car market I don't think it would have. oh well maybe someday somebody will get their out of their ass ;) .

i'll go for the pt cruiser

Originally posted by flylwsi
4 dr hatches are fugly...

hey i have a 4 door hatch! :finger: or a wagon as some of us would call it. but oh well i never said my car was pretty, i didnt buy it for looks i bought it for PERFORMANCE that extra 80 pounds over the rear wheels makes it a lot easier to rotate the rear end on the autocross course and is little enough weight to not make a noticable difference on the dragstrip. plus makes a GREAT place to house an eclipse 15 and a planet audio amp! some people (like me) just like the way a wagon looks better than a 4 door, i mean 4 door people are getting ripped off, they pay the same money but dont have that extra little bit of car! :hehehe:

why is it the Domestic cars are just getting uglier i mean Aztec PT Cruiser Thunderbird and that other chrysler Coupe they are all ugly ass piss

i could shit a better car

will someone please tell me how the thunderbird got motor trend car of the year? i mean cmon, i could name 30 cars that are better for cheaper.

the newer probes arent that bad but i throw up every time i see the others! especially the fuckin aztec! what went through someones brain when they made that thing????

I like the PT, if only because of the roadster styling. I'd still like ot know what kind of drugs that the AssTek designers were using when they came up with that thing..... it wasn't even rounded and aerodynamic, squared and angular isn't pretty to me.

oh yea.... and how could I ever leave out the Avalanche.... tasteless and useless in my opinion. I respect anyone who drives the new Gm's cause they've got balls to drive somethin that ugly......

that cadillac/avalanche really blows..

I never really liked the Aztech. There are worse vehicals out there. But none that come to mind. :D

NeoFreek

just got reminded by a TV commercial, the Nissan Frontiers, short bed was bad enough, but good lrod... the long bed makes the short bed look almost normal,lol,

I'm a mopar fan, but I'll admit that they've even got some funky designs, the Jeep Liberty to be exact, but they're st least growing on me.

i swear vipers are the ugliest cars out there, plus those idiots didnt even design it themselves, they designed it after the shelby cobra daytona...very original but oh well its still ugly.:p

Chevy Avalanche is FUGLY!!! Aztek looks beautiful compared to it :eek:

yeah the avalanche is pretty bad... "hey lets bolt a bunch of black plastic on our truck and make it look cool" ghetto-stylista have been making avalanches for years with bug shields and rain guards and car bras.
hey can the avalanches lock thos back walls that "covert"??? ive tried 2 of em and ive been able to break into them pretty easily through the back wall even though all the doors are locked.


i wouldnt think vipers looked bad if i didnt think "damn rich bastard just showing off" every time i see one. :)

DMC 12..
that Delorean is fuckin sick, where did you get it? is it fast..?

Originally posted by mastachi
DMC 12..
that Delorean is fuckin sick, where did you get it? is it fast..?

LOOOOOOOOOONG story 'bout gettin it. I found the car about 5 years ago. It was f**ked up... totalled. They were ready to scrap the thing when I bought it & started rebuilding it. Keep in mind this is way before Fast & Furious... so when i saw that beat up Supra being rebuilt I was like YEAAHHHH! Its me!!! When I get time, I'm gonna set up a Web site devoted totally to the project.

I didn't want a factory restoration (boring), so I decided to create a stock DMC onwer's worst nightmare! One day I'm gonna take it to a DMC show and everyone will sh*t their pants! I don't feel guilty about the mods... the car was painted when I got it & was going to the scrap yard anyway...

Its faster than most Hondas on the road; the powerplant is from a Euro Rally car. However, it is bone stock so a twin turbo Supra can waste my a**.

i voted aztek but all the new suv's by companys like pontiac, saturn and others who wernt prevoiusly making suvs are fuckin' ugly

The A$$-tek has got to be the worst looking thing every created to drive around in. Some guy on my campus has one, with a system in it, and he swears it is the S#!T, well needless to say, everybody that knows anything about cars around here constantly jokes about him cause his car is S#!T, that had to be a designers sons drawing or something, please take that garbage away

Aztec is the uglyist car ever.

None of them, my ugly car vote goes to the Renault Scenic RX4

The Aztec by far is the ugliest piece of crap on American roadways today. My friends and I were leaving a party one time, I was drunk off my ass. We drove past this house that had an Aztec in the driveway, so I scream out..."stop! stop! stop!" so they thought I had to puke or something. He slams on the brakes, and stops tha car they're like "what!, what!" I run out and start meat slapping the Aztec! then I ran up and took a piss on there doorstep. then scream your car is a piece of shit! and things of that nature! They had to come grab me , and throw me in the jeep before the owner came out and shot me. Yeah, yeah I know I'm an idiot, but I was drunk:bloated:

i vote for the pt cruiser. looks like a hearse for midgits. i think tha focus is pretty ugly too, but then again its a ford so i dont expect much of it.;)

how can neone not say the Aztec

aSSteC and the gaY0-tracker hafta be the worst looking I've seen

This thread should be over too. We all know the ass-tec is the ugliest damn vehicle. Though someone brought up the Avelanche! I think someone drove there Silverado into some garbage cans and they stuck, and he had a brain fart for a new truck. Good-bye Ghost I'm Out!

Get the ECHOES OFF THE ROAD!!!!!

I've already hit a red one. heh
God are they ugly, and only stupid bitches that dont speak english buy em.

I am gonna get a 81 caddi, or the next heaviest car that i can find, and go huntin for Echoes.

You guys are brutal! I have no doubt about the hideousity (real word?) of the aztek and echo, but the PT cruiser is a work of art!

Said it before and I'll say it again :monkeypis aztec! Yeah and what is up with those retarded avalances?

Aztec and the PT Cruiser are horrible looking cars, The PT isnt as bad looking but the fact that so many people have them and they arent that great of cars I'd go with the PT.

Originally posted by 240sxSilvia
Get the ECHOES OFF THE ROAD!!!!!

I've already hit a red one. heh
God are they ugly, and only stupid bitches that dont speak english buy em.

I am gonna get a 81 caddi, or the next heaviest car that i can find, and go huntin for Echoes.
A little therapy might be in order???:rolleyes:

uhm... i'd have to say that friggin PT cruiser, its SOOO lame...

i think its a really lame attempt to revive the 'american graffiti' days, but they failed... miserably

i know ppl that deliberatly 'bump'/'nudge' or other wise do anything toget these cars of the road... like, if they see one at a set of lights they'll tail end it just for the satasfaction

lebarons have got to be the...... just kidding polygon,

definately the aztec though, puke:bloated:

one of these modified !!!!! with a 1.0 liter 3 cylinder engine it'll kick ASS

Have I been in this thread lately to point out that the Azshit still sucks?

The aforementioned cars are all pretty butt ugly. Definitely the Aztec was a mistake in automotive design. The PT cruiser is love it or hate it design. I happen to hate it. Someone mention the avalanche/cadillac EXT, and I thought that was a good candidate as well.

For me it has to be the Echo. Words can't describe how much I hate those things. :devil:

Okay, you've all been very unkind to the Aztek. All right, it's ugly. It's really ugly, but you'll apreciate it after this, in fact, you'll probably beg the Aztek for forgiveness :D

Sorry for those of you without broadband, this is really gonna suck.
I give you, THE TRABANT!
http://jim.rees.org/trips/Albania/trabant.jpg
http://www.luffa.nu/shock/bild/trabant.jpg
http://www.ds2.pg.gda.pl/~victor/trabant.jpg

Der Messerschmidt!
http://www.roukama.nl/thema/klant/divers/Messerschmidt.jpg
http://www-ifm.math.uni-hannover.de/~koeditz/Messerschmidt.jpg
http://www.galen-frysinger.ws/Frysinger_family/photos/goettingen16.jpg

I might get wailed on for this, but the trabant kind of looks like a renault dauphine, so I actually like. As for the messer whatchamacallit....yeeeeeesh:apuke:

<wailing on commences>

I don't think any of you understand how much I hate the Trabant. You say you hate the aztek, but that's just strong dislike. Nothing can compare to the deep antithesis of rage in my person for the Trabant.

It runs on turpentine for christs sake! TURPENTINE!

Okay, I'm done, resume posting.

Ah, more than a Mig-29 rushing overhead or Lenin's Tomb, nothing quite illustrates the folly of the Eastern Bloc's Communist State better than the Trabant. Well, maybe Cheyrnobl, but not much else. As for the Messerschmit, after WWII, Germany was without vehicles or materials (failed global conquest sort of does that) and they needed them fast and cheap. The Messerschmit was one answer, the BMW Isetta was another, and if you had a bit more money, you could get a Volkwagen. Different times..... different reasons. The Messerschmit was a product of war. The Aztek is ugly by choice.

Before antone else says the PT Crusier I must say they may not look all that greatbut are great cars to drive.

The worse car on the road is the Aztek

Originally posted by Cbass
It runs on turpentine for christs sake! TURPENTINE!

bwahahahahaha!

that messerschmidt is kinda cool. id drive it. itd be fun to see the looks itd get.

Originally posted by streetracer780
Before antone else says the PT Crusier I must say they may not look all that greatbut are great cars to drive.

they drive like a dodge caravan or a plymouth voyager...

I arree all are butt ugly cars:flipa:

I need the ability to vote for the Azshit a few million more times.

i found a new candidate


i give you the FSO polonez ....polish shit or something like that or is it chech god i dunno .............

its communist in some way (someone help me)

its a pos

i got a video of that thing being destroyed buy two Uclids .... if you don't know what that is thing of a truck thats 10 times the size or think of the big yellow thing in jackie chan's mr nice guy cuz thats what it is


i would post the vid if i knew how ............. as it is i don't :rolleyes:

I still think the Trabi is much uglier.

WTF, Honda hookup? Take your honda to the limit? Probably the speed limit (I was doing 55 man! 55! Man!)

Originally posted by NSX-R-SSJ20K
i found a new candidate


i give you the FSO polonez ....polish shit or something like that or is it chech god i dunno .............

its communist in some way (someone help me)

its a pos

It's Polish :rolleyes:

Ok, i admit that when i saw the first Aztek roll off of the transport where i work i was a little skeptical myself. However, after detailing these cars the last two years they've kinda grown on me. Now the two toned Azteks are ugly, but the solid red, yellow, and black colors actually look pretty sharp and they clean up real nice. And if you have ever driven one(which i'm sure most of you haven't!!!!) you would know how good of a ride they actually are. GM doesn't need to find new designers, i mean really have you seen the new GTO that's coming out, it's gorgeous. Before you people start bringing the roof down on the Aztek or the Rendezvous, you need to stop and look at them a little more or learn about them before you make your decisions about them being the ugliest car on the road. Besides, the ECHO is the ugliest damn car i've ever seen other than the Yugo.

It's all a matter of personal taste, or lack thereof :finger:

I personally think that the Aztec looks like the designers had an ass fetish/obsession. Ride quality, handling, all that aside, I just don't like the looks, but that's just my opinion, so I'm not going to say you're wrong or argue...

Anyways, the Trabant and that Polish thing are far uglier.

the aztec is basically the redesigned montana, not an SUV in any way shape or form. its a minivan

Originally posted by Z28Josh
Ok, i admit that when i saw the first Aztek roll off of the transport where i work i was a little skeptical myself. However, after detailing these cars the last two years they've kinda grown on me.

You must seek professional help! This is a perfect example of the Stockholm Syndrome. :)

Our dealership got a special edition Aztek. It was solid black with black rims on it that looked sharp(forgot brand name though) I'm telling you it really isn't that ugly if you give it a chance to look cool.

I'm gonna go with aztec but GAWD that was a hard decision. I HATE the new "focusy" style Civic. Foci look like crap to begin with. Why would you model a car after the focus?! Granted both the Aztec and the Foci handle nice and run well and everything but they just look so damn deuchalicious. (Yea, I just made it up... :licker: )

I chose the PT cuz those things look like hurses for midgets and I have driven a couple that come into my job (car wash) and they are horrible their turning radius makes me sick.

I had to vote for the Echo...i'd drive anything before i drove it...well anything but a focus :/

Haha, this thread has yet to die?!?

I am glad to see the Aztec in a devistating lead. :D

Anyone who didn't vote for the Aztec, I must ask, why??? That is by far one of the ugliest cars EVER. If I made a list, it may not be number one, but it would be way up there.

Damn right, Polygon. Actually eminds me of a hilarious thing I saw the other day. Wish I'd had a camera, but I saw a 1978 AMC Pacer with a bumper sticker that read "Hey, at least it's not an Aztek".

If PACER owners are ripping on it, then that, my friends, is proof positive that those things are ugly.

HOLY CRAP!!!

I just fell out of my chair laughing, that is so true, and so funny!!!!

:spit:

Why isn't the Lancer on here. I mean the plain jane non-turbo Lancer. My vote for ugliest car on the road today. Right in front of the new T-bird.

This coming from someone who drives a car that has altezzas stock? Don't sass the T-Bird, that is automotive perfection... Well, not perfection, but what do you want for

http://www.automotiveswap.com/images/T_Bird_2002_front.jpg
http://www.nicheauto.com/T-Bird_Full_Front_Qtr_View.jpg
http://www.newcolony.net/carpics/tbirdback.jpg

It looks best, as all Fords do, in black.

Well I'm glad to see that my baby is still alive and kicking :)

Originally posted by Octagon
Damn right, Polygon. Actually eminds me of a hilarious thing I saw the other day. Wish I'd had a camera, but I saw a 1978 AMC Pacer with a bumper sticker that read "Hey, at least it's not an Aztek".

If PACER owners are ripping on it, then that, my friends, is proof positive that those things are ugly.

And that my friends, that's the funniest damn thing I've heard in a verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry long time. That there just made my day, and thats one hell of a feat seeing as how I just finished a chem exam and still have to read 150 pages of anthropology for and exam tomorrow before studying for a math and physics exam on wedensday.

hehe, worse than a Pacer:D

def. the aztek. its the only thing that makes the pontiac vibe seem in reason.

i had a hard time figuing out which is uglier .. the cruiser or the aztec ..., i wouldnt drive any of them if i was getting them 4 free

You wouldn't "DRIVE" an Aztec if it was free, how could you say that without actually trying it. The Aztec drives better than a Cadillac, it may be a little ugly but there are a lot uglier cars on the road than an Aztec!

I'd drive an Aztek if it was free... then I'd sell it and put the money into fixing up my Aerostar.

i'd drive one too!....Right off a cliff!

Originally posted by DemonZX
i'd drive one too!....Right off a cliff!

Yeah, load it up with some C4 and detonate it half way down like they do in the moves, pure bliss! :D

NO offence to Ford Focus, but i think the ugliest car is a Ford Focus Wagon wit a body kit, UGHH!!!
that ugly as HELL, and a Focuz Hatchback with a body kit, UGH!!!! MAN, the one i saw here looked like it got shot and killed by a Celica GTS

More than the Aztec!?:eek:

what does the Aztec car looks like??
Is it just that ugly?? LOL

the newsest civic looks like ass, it actually makes the old ones look good.

I remember the day i saw the new pt criuser
that was the day i stained my white shirt with my own vomit..

that car looked sooo much like a hearse .... it felt like i was going to a funeral everytime i saw that shit

god what a waste of body developement....

Asstec is how they should have spelled it! I meat slapped one when I was drunk one time. Then I pee'd on the wheel!

Originally posted by Platinum_Skyline01
what does the Aztec car looks like??
Is it just that ugly?? LOL

:eek: Nooooooooo! What a disgrace to a once powerful group of people!

OH MY GAWD...NEW FOR 2003

That's badass! Oh, wait thats a jetski!

how about that new suburu car truck. It looks like a bad impression of an el camino. They even put four full size doors on it. But on the list I'll choose the asstek.

The Saturn Ion

and

Mitsubishi Lancer (the BS version)



Nuff said!

at least the subaru has some heritage... aka brat...

but it's ugly... not as bad as the aztek...

at least they painted the moldings... it's not AS ugly now...

The Brat kicks ass! A kid that went to my high school had one. It was blue. I rode in it one time at a party too go get beer, it was fun as all hell! :D I don't remember his name anymore>?:confused:

why do they still produce the asstec????

they cant sell many of them each year. i mean god they are paying their employees to drive them! how stupid!!!!

maybe they will just trash the whole idea and make the GTO look LESS like the grand prix

The aztek is definatley very bad, but that Trabant is worse.

What are you talking about, the Aztec doesn't get much sales!!! First of all it's not as ugly as you guys are making it to be, you must get some false sense of security clownin on a car that isn't an import compact car. Those cars get a lot of sales, i should know i work at a Pontiac dealership in detail. If your gonna rag on a car, talk about that ugly ass Suzuki Aerio.

Originally posted by Z28Josh
...I work at a Pontiac dealership in detail.


I know something they dont know Josh:D

What about those old VW hippyvans that have been converted into a pickup truck?

How about the new Honda Element. I dont see that thing going to far. If it was made by pontiac and I had the choice between it and the Aztek. I would have to go with the Aztek. Since it is made by Honda I would choose the element if I had to make a choice. Man it is ugly.

I dont understand how you people can say that this car or that car wont go very far. If they Aztek is such an ugly car, and doesnt sell very well, why is it still in production? It's been in production for four years. You'd think that if a car was doing that badly, they would pull the plug. I work at the same Pontiac dealership as Z28Josh, and Must agree that these cars are not at all bad. They have decent engines, decent pricing, and if maintained, can last for quite a while. The only reason I think people are saying it's ugly is because it's not what they consider to be "cool" looking.

Here is an article I found on forbes.com Out of 17.4 million vehicles sold in 2000 only 11,201 were azteks. Gm thought they would sell 70,000 a year.

http://www.forbes.com/2001/01/26/0126flint.html

I know the statistics are kinda old but it is all I could find.

I definatly think that the ugliest piece of shit is the crx. The 1990's mustangs were pretty rank too. Worse looking supercar>> the ENZO

Yep, the Enzo only has two good angles: The engine bay and the driver's seat. Honestly, I don't see how Ferrari could've signed off on such a convoluted, unbalanced, inelegant, and downright WEIRD looking car.

Shades of the Mythos concept from the early 90's.

I would have to disagree. I think the Ferrari Enzo is bad as hell. How could you think any ferrari is ugly. The name just signifies that it is a bad automobile. Granted I like the lines of the Marenello a little better, but the Enzo is still very nice.

How can I think any Ferrari is ugly? Simple.

1975 Ferrari Dino 308GT/4. The butt-ugly stumpy wedge designed by Bertone. The ONLY Ferrari designed by Bertone.

And I'm diehard Tifosi.

Sorry, but even the Cavaillano Rampante doesn't guarantee a pretty car each and every time.

The Enzo just doesn't have the elegant form of a true Ferrari. The lines don't flow and the nose is far too long for such a short wheelbase and short tail. It's just a styling mess. I mean, honestly, it's something I would've expected from Zonda or Alfa Romeo. Not Pininfarina.

Originally posted by tomlong
I would have to disagree. I think the Ferrari Enzo is bad as hell. How could you think any ferrari is ugly. The name just signifies that it is a bad automobile. Granted I like the lines of the Marenello a little better, but the Enzo is still very nice.

The fact that you could say how could you think any ferrari is ugly, proves that they could make any piece of crap with the ferrari nametag and you would probably still like it.

Ferrari is a better company than that! I do not believe they would make a piece of crap. Now I agree that back in the 80's they built some cars that were not to the highest standards, but that is just not the case anymore. That my friend is why we cannot afford them.

Originally posted by Sean Quinn
What about those old VW hippyvans that have been converted into a pickup truck?

the vw vans were'nt converted that was a model of them. and i would hardly call them "vw hippy vans" they were widely sold around the world and only a handful were hippy vans

-GTi-VR6_A3

http://members.tripod.com/~ferrari308gt4/dinogt4.front.jpg

http://members.tripod.com/~ferrari308gt4/factory.gt4.jpg

http://members.tripod.com/~ferrari308gt4/garven.jpg

I rest my case. There are indeed ugly Ferraris.

Originally posted by Octagon
http://members.tripod.com/~ferrari308gt4/dinogt4.front.jpg

http://members.tripod.com/~ferrari308gt4/factory.gt4.jpg

http://members.tripod.com/~ferrari308gt4/garven.jpg

I rest my case. There are indeed ugly Ferraris.

im afraid there was nothing that showed up. Your case is still open.

http://www.qv500.com/newadverts/308gt4.jpg

There. I had to find a different pic, but it should be proof enough that there are ugly Ferraris.

Originally posted by Octagon
http://www.qv500.com/newadverts/308gt4.jpg

There. I had to find a different pic, but it should be proof enough that there are ugly Ferraris.

i dunno i like em

-GTi-VR6_A3

Ferrari can do no wrong! BACK TO THE HOUSE OF PAIN!!! :hehehe:

Originally posted by Octagon
ugly Ferrari.
those two words should not be used in the same sentence.

Originally posted by hybridsol

those two words should not be used in the same sentence.

some people just dont know

-GTi-VR6_A3

i would rather pay less on a well engineered german import than a sexy looking italian one that costs way more

Originally posted by pontiactrac
i would rather pay less on a well engineered german import than a sexy looking italian one that costs way more
No offense to german engineering, but how can you say that geman engineering is better than an italian (ferrari)??????? (F1 raceing?).

Originally posted by hybridsol

No offense to german engineering, but how can you say that geman engineering is better than an italian (ferrari)??????? (F1 raceing?).

Yea, that's what I'm wondering:confused: And also, if you have the money, trust me you WOULD get the Ferrari. If money was no object, you couldn't care less about which one costs more, or which is a better buy:D

Originally posted by Self


Yea, that's what I'm wondering:confused: And also, if you have the money, trust me you WOULD get the Ferrari. If money was no object, you couldn't care less about which one costs more, or which is a better buy:D
My thoughts exactly self.

Originally posted by hybridsol

No offense to german engineering, but how can you say that geman engineering is better than an italian (ferrari)??????? (F1 raceing?).

German engineering is better than Italian engineering. Not only do top end German cars make the same specific output as top end Italian cars, they make it reliably.

Ferrari spends the most on F1 developement, and they're the fastest because of it. It's the reason Ferrari has been out of factory racing for so long, they just can't afford to do both.

Besides, they're not too much faster than the Williams BMW team. Take Schumy out of mix, and see how close the races are then :)

And for the record, if money wasn't an object, I'd be cruising in a 996 Turbo as my daily driver, and a Dauer-Porsche 962 was my weekend sports car. You can keep those Ferraris, I'd be too busy to drive them anyways :hehehe:

GERMANS OWNS JOO

AND BMW OWNS THE GERMANS:D

Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, BMW. Mercedes. If money was no object I would own 1 or more of each. German or Italian they are some of the sexiest, fastest, and most luxurious cars in the world. DID I SAY EXPENSIVE? Oh yeah Expensive!

Ah, but as the GT class and the GT2 class before it prove, Porsche ownz BMW :hehehe:

http://www.bcautodesign.com/bodykits/996GT3-R.jpg

Porsche owns this BMW?
http://www.bmw.com/common/images/downloads/z8/Z8_download_10.jpg

or did you mean this one
http://www.2002bmw.com/m-series/22693246.jpg

lets see your GT2 own this
http://www.2002bmw.com/m-series/mseries518.jpg

Like I said BMW OWNS JOO

OOOHHH M1 :D

Let's see your F1 own this!

http://www.fast-autos.net/dauer/962.jpg

Or this!

http://absolute911.mega.net.kg/images/96gt17.jpg

The GT2 is more suited to taking on the Z8, as they are both very expensive limited production cars. The GT2 is a far better performing car, and if you want to compare comfort and driveability, you should be comparing the 996 Turbo, or the Strosek 928 GTS.

http://www.maximum-cars.com/Cars/Porsche/1987-strosek-928-s4-gullwing.jpg

PORSCHE PWNZ J00

NO NOT the RED X:crying:

What are you talking about the GT2 only makes 456hp and 457lb-ft but the Z8 makes.......(crap)... :finger:CBASS

but check this BMW M8 1994 666hp and 800NM of torque and its AWD
http://www.bmw-power.8m.com/bmw_M8.jpg

And Cbass I dont see any porsches in the top 30 fastest cars in the world or the fastest 0-60, but it looks like theres bmws:finger:

Originally posted by hybridsol

No offense to german engineering, but how can you say that geman engineering is better than an italian (ferrari)??????? (F1 raceing?).

I don't know man, it's pretty close... Italians have always been the great designers and nobody is going to doubt that they make some of the most fastest cars in the world. But I think that if German companies all expanded their horizons and aimed their luxery productions like BMW and Merceides<(sp/wrg), and even Audi and Volkswagon, towards the performance aspects. They could probably make alot of impressive vehicles. Besides only Porshe.

Originally posted by Cbass
And for the record, if money wasn't an object, I'd be cruising in a 996 Turbo as my daily driver, and a Dauer-Porsche 962 was my weekend sports car. You can keep those Ferraris, I'd be too busy to drive them anyways :hehehe:

what cbass no 968 rs or carrera rs. im surprised

-GTi-VR6_A3

I don't know why I bothered, especially considering how huge a Ferrari fan I am.

I'll agree with CBass that past road-going Ferraris just don't hold together. (You try synchronizing six Weber two barrels!) But, and this is pure conjecture and personal opinion, I've driven Fiats and small Alfas, and rode in Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Maseratis, and De Tomasos. I've also had the oppurtunity to enjoy several Porsches, Benzs, and BMW's.

I've never felt anything in the German cars.

The Italian cars, and to a lesser extent the Brit built sportscars, have personality and quirks. They're tempermental nature is part of their mystique. And, they sing at high revs, communicating through vibrations, howls, chirps, swishes, and clunks. When I wind out Layla, she's alive with sound and movement. Natural and free, unfettered by dutiful pursuit or meticulous detail. The passion was in what makes people passionate. I could own an S Class Benz, and every day shut the door and never note "Wow! I like how solid this door feels when it latches." But I'll crowd myself into a 512BB's cockpit and turn the key of that Boxer 12 and immediately grin like the joker. Yes, there's the "old school" Italian seating position (long arms, short legs) and the clutch is impossibly heavy, and you have to be careful not to rush when shifting otherwise you're just grinding gears. It isn't a tool for speed, the way a 911 Turbo or AMG E55 is. This is a car that, when you finally crawl out of the seat and stretch your aching body out, you'll feel accomplishment. You'll feel a connection with the car.

You'll feel alive, and so will the car.

And I've never been in a Porsche that had that.

There is definately something to be said for character, but for now, I'll just have to content myself with the wonderfully precise machinery that is the 924 :)

I dont see any porsches in the top 30 fastest cars in the world or the fastest 0-60, but it looks like theres bmws

I drive a BMW and would like to have a Porsche also. I thought the 959 did 0-60 in 3.6 seconds. That should definately be in the top 30. Isnt it?

quite frankly I think the japanese have one up on the germans. But this is merely an opinion, I really don't see how most german engineering is so complex and well thought out..... Motor placement among other things, don't get me wrong i love porshe and BMW for there perfection of valvetronics. I just think that ferrari has one up on pretty much everyone, precision engineering more than anything.

(PS- Dauer 962 Le Mans Porshe does 0-60 in 2.7 sec.)
reffer to picture posted by Cbass.

Let's not forget it's mid 9 second 1/4 mile time :)

Psshh, 11 second Mclaren. You can keep your 11 second McLaren, Porsche owns j00 :P

Psshh, 11 second Mclaren. You can keep your 11 second McLaren

I wish I had a Mclaren also. Those cars are crazy. i really like the seating configuration. I think the Mclaren will put down the quarter mile in less than 11 seconds. If not I know the top speed is faster than the Porsche. When I win the lottery I will buy one of each test them and let you guys know what I come up with. YEAH RIGHT!

Originally posted by hybridsol
quite frankly I think the japanese have one up on the germans. But this is merely an opinion, I really don't see how most german engineering is so complex and well thought out..... Motor placement among other things, don't get me wrong i love porshe and BMW for there perfection of valvetronics. I just think that ferrari has one up on pretty much everyone, precision engineering more than anything.

(PS- Dauer 962 Le Mans Porshe does 0-60 in 2.7 sec.)
reffer to picture posted by Cbass.

how does ferrari have one up?

I don't see any ferrari F50 winning LeMans or beating maclaren's or porsches


i don't think the 360 is anything to proud off when a stock NSX can beat it in a straight line or round the nearest corner.

Ferrari isn't all that its cracked up to be

NOW Lamborghini thats a different story *DROOL*

Originally posted by tomlong


I wish I had a Mclaren also. Those cars are crazy. i really like the seating configuration. I think the Mclaren will put down the quarter mile in less than 11 seconds. If not I know the top speed is faster than the Porsche. When I win the lottery I will buy one of each test them and let you guys know what I come up with. YEAH RIGHT!

The McLaren does the 1/4 in 11.5 seconds.

The McLaren has a faster top speed in standard trim, but you can swap the gears and lessen the downforce on the 962 and get 280mph :/

Originally posted by Monkey-Magic-S15-R


how does ferrari have one up?

I don't see any ferrari F50 winning LeMans or beating maclaren's or porsches


i don't think the 360 is anything to proud off when a stock NSX can beat it in a straight line or round the nearest corner.

Ferrari isn't all that its cracked up to be

NOW Lamborghini thats a different story *DROOL*

A 360 Modena will take an NSX in a straight line, and in the corners too.

Originally posted by Cbass


A 360 Modena will take an NSX in a straight line, and in the corners too.

i got a video that says otherwise

Originally posted by Cbass


A 360 Modena will take an NSX in a straight line, and in the corners too.

I agree... NSXs aren't that powerful

Originally posted by Monkey-Magic-S15-R


i got a video that says otherwise

I've got first hand experience that says otherwise to your otherwise. Seen it with my own eyes...A 360 OWNING an NSX and a Firebird on the freeway.

I guess porsche does make faster cars than bmw but thats all porsche makes(not that theirs anything wrong with that) but bmw makes every thing except vans and trucks. I wish BMW would make some more super cars to compete with the GT2. Thats all BMW is missing
X5vs Porsche thinge
M3vs Boxter
Z8vs 911
?vs GT2
So right now BMW dosnt make anything that can compete with porsches GTs (McLaren dosnt count) so I will conceded:( Porsche does make the best german performance car
For now at least:D

Originally posted by Self


I've got first hand experience that says otherwise to your otherwise. Seen it with my own eyes...A 360 OWNING an NSX and a Firebird on the freeway.

Yea, i would def. agree with the otherwiseX2 No competition there. Only thing is... what the hell was a firebird doing on that freeway? :smoker2:

What does everyone think of the new Porshe Cayenne 480Hp. I think it is the coolest SUV ever built. If I had $80,000 and needed an SUV I would go for it.

Aztek gets my vote! The designer of this piece of crap must be as dumb as BMW's new designer Chris Bangle who designed the new 7-series.. That is SO ugly IMO :confused:

But lets compare the car that do match up

M3 vs Boxster

M3
$54,500
333hp
262lb-ft
0-60=4.8

Boxster
$51,600
258hp
229lb-ft
0-60=5.60

So IMO M3 owns here

Z8 vs 911 tubo

Z8
$131,500
394hp
368lb-ft
0-60=4.30

911
$69,365
315hp
273lb-ft
0-60=6.2

Im far too lazy to compare the Cayenne vs X5 so if you match them up I would pick BMW. You might not agree with my match ups if you would like to post your own go ahead. i was going to match up the Z4 vs the Boxster but decided to compare the Boxster S vs the M3.

Originally posted by RACER D12
But lets compare the car that do match up

M3 vs Boxster

M3
$54,500
333hp
262lb-ft
0-60=4.8

Boxster
$51,600
258hp
229lb-ft
0-60=5.60

So IMO M3 owns here


Okay, the M3 is the top model 3 series, which is the BMW low end model. Let's compare that to the Boxster S, which is more fitting. The Boxter is all about handling, as all low end Porsches are. On a race track, it will eat a M3 for lunch, despite the power advantage of the BMW.

Originally posted by RACER D12

Z8 vs 911 tubo

Z8
$131,500
394hp
368lb-ft
0-60=4.30

911
$69,365
315hp
273lb-ft
0-60=6.2


Those figures are for a 911 Carrera, or maybe for a 964 turbo...
The new Turbo makes 415hp, does 0-60 in 4.1, and 0-100mph in 9.4 seconds. The 1/4 flashes by in 12.4 seconds, and the car tops out at 190mph.

Considering the limited run of the Z8, I think a comparison between it and the GT2 would be more fitting, but a 996 TT still owns the Z8 :p

Originally posted by RACER D12

Im far too lazy to compare the Cayenne vs X5 so if you match them up I would pick BMW. You might not agree with my match ups if you would like to post your own go ahead. i was going to match up the Z4 vs the Boxster but decided to compare the Boxster S vs the M3.

The Cayenne is much faster than the X5, and better handling. The Z4 is a much better choice to compare to the Boxster, but the Boxter beats it in every performance measure, so I guess that's why you picked the M3.


J00 H4V3 B33N PWN3D!!!!11!!!

cbass does have a point, you can't compare low and top end models... just not right

cbass does have a point, you can't compare low and top end models... just not right

But the M3 and Boxster S are comparably priced automobiles.

Originally posted by tomlong


But the M3 and Boxster S are comparably priced automobiles.

A boxter and a corvette are about the same price too... and the vette would dominate

Are you sugesting then that I compare the M3 to the GT2? Boxster S and M3 is just fine or the Z4 vs the Boxster.

Originally posted by RACER D12
Are you sugesting then that I compare the M3 to the GT2? Boxster S and M3 is just fine or the Z4 vs the Boxster.

you could compair whatever you want to compair. It's more fair to just compair bottom liner to a bottom liner, vice versa for upper models.

Originally posted by pontiactrac
A boxter and a corvette are about the same price too... and the vette would dominate

Well, that's in the US.
For the price of a Corvette, base model, I can get a Carrera 4S.
The Boxster S is as expensive as a V6 Camaro.

Edit: S

Originally posted by Deakins


Well, that's in the US.
For the price of a Corvette, base model, you can get a Carrera 4S.
The Boxter S is as expensive as a V6 Camaro.

jeez, what would an SS or Z/28 go for over there?

eh... all of the above?? lol..yeah the aztecs look like moma crx's

Yeah, Porsche deliberately overprices in the US, and there are big dealer markups.

If you order a Mercedes Benz, BMW, or Porsche from Germany, and have it shipped to the US, you can often come out thousands ahead, for a better model.

Originally posted by Cbass
Yeah, Porsche deliberately overprices in the US, and there are big dealer markups.

If you order a Mercedes Benz, BMW, or Porsche from Germany, and have it shipped to the US, you can often come out thousands ahead, for a better model.

Is that because Europe wants to avoid the market from buying imported products economy wise?

The new Civic's rear end is really ugly you can see at lot of the underside including the suspension. BUT that all changed with the Type R it makes the car look ALOT better.

^^^ Wow, i think i have found another one of the ugliest cars on the road. Good thing their rare to find though.

Originally posted by pontiactrac
^^^ Wow, i think i have found another one of the ugliest cars on the road. Good thing their rare to find though.

talkin bout the ne Si civic??? i think it looks like a mini honda oddesey. hahaah but the placemnet of the stick shift is very cool and the seats are comfy (my friend has one. he wanted the gti vr6 but the Si suited his wallet better)

-GTi-VR6_A3

Originally posted by GTi-VR6_A3


talkin bout the ne Si civic??? i think it looks like a mini honda oddesey. hahaah but the placemnet of the stick shift is very cool and the seats are comfy (my friend has one. he wanted the gti vr6 but the Si suited his wallet better)

-GTi-VR6_A3

I think he ment the car Monkey-Magic-S15-R sig, ya that thing is ugly:finger: j/k

shit i would sport the s15 spec r around i think they look kool intimidating heads and kikass engine. along with a great drive train...

-GTi-VR6_A3

haha, im playin, it ain't ugly at all, id take one, just way out radical looking. Nice grille though. Probably damn fast too

Originally posted by pontiactrac
haha, im playin, it ain't ugly at all, id take one, just way out radical looking. Nice grille though. Probably damn fast too

I was about to kill you all,

but i changed my mind :o its a drift car but i'd no sooner but a HKS T51R in it :devil:

you have two AF screen names???

-GTi-VR6_A3

Originally posted by pontiactrac


Is that because Europe wants to avoid the market from buying imported products economy wise?

I think it's because they can ;)

Well, i do know what one of the 03's beatiful cars is, the Chrysler Crossfire. That thing is sweet looking. But damn, why a chrysler. lol... Is Chrysler partially owned by a German industry or something? Cause i remember the motto being like. "American design, German engineering" or something along those lines.

DaimlerChrysler. That's the company that exists now after DaimlerBenz merged with Chrysler in around 1996-1998. The Crossfire actually borrows heavily from the Mercedes Benz SLK230 and 320 sports roadsters, namely suspension, engine, transmission, a few interior bits, and the remaining driveline.

uh huh, it's a nice chrysler no doubting that. I would have more faith in it now since some amount of German influence is involved

Everytime I hear "crossfire" I think of mixed up sparkplug wires - and after that I think of the game where you shoot those metal marbles.

Or GM's failed EFI setup for the Chevy 350. Not-quite-so-fondly nick-named "Cease-Fire" Injection.

Originally posted by Octagon
Or GM's failed EFI setup for the Chevy 350. Not-quite-so-fondly nick-named "Cease-Fire" Injection.

A guy where I work as a crap-fire injection corvette. Thing is a total pile and he's trying to sell it for 18,000. Why do stupid people own crappy cars?

Good Question.

Originally posted by ILike2DriveCars


A guy where I work as a crap-fire injection corvette. Thing is a total pile and he's trying to sell it for 18,000. Why do stupid people own crappy cars?

haha... you said under the name of your car "uh it has wheels" and ur asking why people own crappy cars. It's all good though ;)

Wha?? with a little work the probe looks good..why is that even on this list if ne thing put on the crx..only way those things look good is if u buy that $3,500 body kit...even then it is still a crx..i dunno its jsut my opinion.

Originally posted by PrimeTimeGt
Wha?? with a little work the probe looks good..why is that even on this list if ne thing put on the crx..only way those things look good is if u buy that $3,500 body kit...even then it is still a crx..i dunno its jsut my opinion.

I agree with this guy completely. i like some Honda's but the CRX is the puniest bare-boned little thing ive ever seen. Id prefer the looks of a beatle or even a focus over it, and at least they look like they can keep up with normal traffic flow. And since this is a thread about looks and not performance/modibility... i am glad to say that without having to worry about people telling me that they once saw a crx beat this car and that one. The probe, i don't think it's the most incredible thing ive ever seen, but it has a nice sporty yet conservative look to it, which is not something i could say about the boxlike crx. but then again, some people would beg to differ, and im content with that.

The new yet to come out ssr pice of shit the truck/shit mobile is a wana be 1940 to 59 chevy truck

Originally posted by Drfthis
The new yet to come out ssr pice of shit the truck/shit mobile is a wana be 1940 to 59 chevy truck

That is one of those cars in which GM should have just kept as a concept. It has very limited use. What kind of guy who wants the power and size of an american made pickup is going to buy that? Maybe an old man. People who want a truck, want a truck, people who want a car, want a car. Now SUVs is a different story though, some people like the whole hybrid thing there.

I can agree that the SSR is pretty fuggly. How about the Mitsubishi Oulander? God that thing has a hideous nose.

And have you seen how they screwed up the Diamante? Where are we losing the styling department between the Lancer/Lancer EVO and the rest of the lineup?

Originally posted by Octagon
I can agree that the SSR is pretty fuggly. How about the Mitsubishi Oulander? God that thing has a hideous nose.

And have you seen how they screwed up the Diamante? Where are we losing the styling department between the Lancer/Lancer EVO and the rest of the lineup?

Glad you brout up the Lancer evo... nice 270 hp turbocharged engine. but just plain ugly as hell.

I can't believe anything but the Azcrap got a vote. Have you people seen that piece of shit?

Originally posted by YogsVR4
I can't believe anything but the Azcrap got a vote. Have you people seen that piece of shit?

everyone who voted for the Aztec probably voted again for a diff. car.

Originally posted by 2strokebloke
Everytime I hear "crossfire" I think of mixed up sparkplug wires - and after that I think of the game where you shoot those metal marbles.

Haha! I think of the same thing, that metal ballbearing shooting game, I have no idea whatsoever what a crossfire is. Why does the Echo's @$$ stick up so much, why can't they design a small cheap car that looks decent. Is it so difficult to design something that looks cool for less that $15,000. I think car companies are trying to make poor people look stupid or something, are poor people are stupid enough to buy them?

Originally posted by kaoru-tochiro
Why does the Echo's @$$ stick up so much, why can't they design a small cheap car that looks decent. Is it so difficult to design something that looks cool for less that $15,000.
The entire design of the body of the ECHO was for superior aerodynamics. Function over form.

Cd = drag coefficient
(lower is better)

From the poll, plus some others I have lying around:

Ferrari 360 Modena = 0.335
Porsche 996 Turbo = 0.31
Honda NSX = 0.30
...
Chrysler PT Cruiser = 0.379
Honda Civic Si = 0.30
Ford Focus ZX3 = 0.32
Ford Focus ZTW (wagon) = 0.30
Ford Probe = 0.30
Chevy Cavalier = 0.38
...
Pontiac Aztec = :confused: Couldn't find it anywhere... :confused: (Must be bad! :o)
...
Toyota ECHO = 0.29

Aerodynamic does not necessarilly mean "ugly," but you tend to pay more for aerodynamic + not "ugly." Makers of the sport compact cars evidently are content to focus on function over form in this manner to make their cars more efficient, as they probably feel that will add the most percieved value to their customers.

They could try instaling an under tray, would that be expensive?

new sunfire is pretty damn ugly too, old ones were ok

most pontiacs are but-ugly same goes for saturns except pontiac transam that thing is a beast damn cool one too:o

Originally posted by NSX-R-SSJ20K
most pontiacs are but-ugly same goes for saturns except pontiac transam that thing is a beast damn cool one too:o

i obviously being somewhat biast can't agree with this completely. If you look at the overral production from the early day to now, im sure you'd feel a bit different.

Originally posted by pontiactrac


i obviously being somewhat biast can't agree with this completely. If you look at the overral production from the early day to now, im sure you'd feel a bit different.

sorry i meant the most current pontiacs

Originally posted by NSX-R-SSJ20K


sorry i meant the most current pontiacs

in that case i could probably agree with u there, even though there are a few exeptions, and their new production lines seems to be getting a little better.

sorry but i dont think the hyundai tiburon is cool lookin at all, but guys are right about the aztec its fuckin ugly and what the hell was porsche thinkin when they came out with the new suv:angryfire

I'd say the best looking Pontiacs available right now are the Grand Am GT, Grand Prix, and the latest Sunfire. Sunfire definately got a better improvement, namely the headlights. Looks more 'birdlike'.

Eh yeah I vote Aztec the most absolutely ugliest car ever. The Vibe ain't far behind it either.

About the hyundai tiberon, i am in love with the new apperance of that car. It's just that darn hyundai nametag that deters me and some others away from it. I am gaining more respect for them though. I think in a few years from now, they might be up there with respectable imports like honda and toyotas. But i really would take this car in an instant if it were anything different than a hyundai.

Originally posted by jay@af

The entire design of the body of the ECHO was for superior aerodynamics. Function over form.

Cd = drag coefficient
(lower is better)

From the poll, plus some others I have lying around:

Ferrari 360 Modena = 0.335
Porsche 996 Turbo = 0.31
Honda NSX = 0.30
...
Chrysler PT Cruiser = 0.379
Honda Civic Si = 0.30
Ford Focus ZX3 = 0.32
Ford Focus ZTW (wagon) = 0.30
Ford Probe = 0.30
Chevy Cavalier = 0.38
...
Pontiac Aztec = :confused: Couldn't find it anywhere... :confused: (Must be bad! :o)
...
Toyota ECHO = 0.29

Aerodynamic does not necessarilly mean "ugly," but you tend to pay more for aerodynamic + not "ugly." Makers of the sport compact cars evidently are content to focus on function over form in this manner to make their cars more efficient, as they probably feel that will add the most percieved value to their customers.

Not doubting what you've said cause I haven't done any research on my own, but I find it rather hard to believe the ECHO body has lower drag coefficient than even the modena? I mean... just look at the height of the cars, the modena is so low while the echo is like so high..

I would think the air contact area would be much less on the modena, so less drag? I don't know. Quite interesting info though. :rolleyes:
http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/71942401.toyota.echo.front.350.jpg http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/852546modena360_front.jpg

The new Hyundai Tiburon is a vast improvement over the first generation; those are one of the ugliest sport compacts ever. The thing I still hate about Hyundai is the fact that they lied about the power ratings of their cars, they were saying they had more than they did and got in trouble for it, plus they get horrible gas mileage. I will never buy a Hyundai for these reasons. I don't like it when people tell me that I am getting WAY more than I really am. Also then the car gets horrible gas mileage with such a conservative power rating. That is just plain bad engineering.

Now onto the fact that Pontiac doesn't have any good designers. Well, that is somewhat true. They are getting better, but the majority of their cars aren't very appealing to the eye. I hope they go back to their days of good styling like they had in the 90s.

Originally posted by Polygon
The new Hyundai Tiburon is a vast improvement over the first generation; those are one of the ugliest sport compacts ever. The thing I still hate about Hyundai is the fact that they lied about the power ratings of their cars, they were saying they had more than they did and got in trouble for it, plus they get horrible gas mileage. I will never buy a Hyundai for these reasons. I don't like it when people tell me that I am getting WAY more than I really am. Also then the car gets horrible gas mileage with such a conservative power rating. That is just plain bad engineering.

Now onto the fact that Pontiac doesn't have any good designers. Well, that is somewhat true. They are getting better, but the majority of their cars aren't very appealing to the eye. I hope they go back to their days of good styling like they had in the 90s.

Really, i didn't know Hyundai falsified their ratings, what did they say it was and what was it really. And im suprised that they have bad gas mileage, i would think that the small engine+lightweight would be pretty good. Does this all refer only to the 1st gen tiberons only? Or are the new ones straightforward with the info.
And about the pontiacs, i sadly have to agree with the present product line being pretty unappealing. I think they have to break the mentality of having EVERY car with the signature "split grill," some cars work with it, and some just look plain old bad with a split grill. I personally love the looks of my pontiac though, (one of the few good looking models) and like every company, they all have their ups and downs as far as production. I still love their old line so much better though. Those were the days.

Originally posted by BeEfCaKe

Not doubting what you've said cause I haven't done any research on my own, but I find it rather hard to believe the ECHO body has lower drag coefficient than even the modena? I mean... just look at the height of the cars, the modena is so low while the echo is like so high..


Well, if you consider how much more downforce the 360 have, it's not that strange.

The Audi A2 have a Cd of 0.25, and does the Honda Insight.

It's not really height you have to worry about so much as width. Once the air is over the hood, it's not causing much drag to slip over the roof. What really matters is the frontal area that has to be pushed through the air, the front end of the car. You can see how much more frontal area the Modena has over the Echo.

Give me the Modena. I think I could live with an echo having better aerodynamics.

where did you get the drag coeffiecients jay?

whats the one for the Jaguar XJ220 :o

The sunfire is an ugly little car

I keep seeing civic typeR's its starting to remind me of attack of the clones:bandit:

actually i think that the GAYEST car on the road is the honda element, that thing makes me wanna puke