GM is destroying Saab!!!

I was horrified in when I heard that Saab would be rebadging the Subaru Impreza and Chevy Trailblazer, later to be known as the Saab 9-2X and 9-7X. These vehicles detract from Swedish marques originality. When you cosider all Saab's major advances in Turbocharging and safety, and its inspirational models such as the 9X concept and the historic 99Turbo. GM better do something quick or they will have another Oldsmobile on their hands.

This is the probably the last hope for Saab.
They have to come up with cars that are "profitable."
Like Porsche, they need a car that can bring profits to the company, so they woredk with VW and came out with an SUV. Now they have got the profit they want. (But the Cayenne has been hurting the quality of the Porsche brand)
GM is counting things on the U.S. market, which accounts for around 40% of Saab's worldwide sales. And the cheapest way to do this is by rebadging a vehicle thats already in the GM family. (Saab only posted two years with profits, since GM acquired it in 1990)

Suppose.

Anyway theres talk that Saab are updating their 9-5 and 9-3 ranges to resemble the the 9-X concept.

The Subaru Impreza is a great car. Add some Saab suaveness to it, and I think it's gonna be top notch (when I can get my hands on one).

After seeing reviews on the 9-2X it does'nt look all that bad and still has some Saab individuallity about it(at the front-end). If the new 9-7X is to be like this I don't know yet. After all is said and done the 9-2X is still a Subaru Impreza at heart. As for the Impreza it is a excellent piece of rally-bred engineering but(in my opinion) lacks the innovative touches a traditional Saab would have.

So if this continues what other strange badge-engineered cars are GM going to create for Saab.

I think it looks better than the current WRX, but not as good as the bug eyed WRX. Anyways, I think Saab and Volvo ruined themselves when they switched to front-wheel drive. Before they were fuel efficient sport sedans without the snob appeal of a BMW. Now they are just another car.

Totally agree, although its not Saab and Volvo who have ruined themselves its GM and Ford!!!

ha!, Im no GM supporter, but you guys know that saab wouldnt be a company today if it wasnt for GM and all their money. (Saab ruined itself years ago, they are just lucky GM helped them out)

and dont get me wrong, saab has been one of my favorite car companies since I can remember and I personally think that the 92x is a great step ahead for them. It would be my car of choice if I had the money at the moment.

Much to my disgust there is to be another joint venture between Saab and Subaru to produce the Saab 9-6X. This will be based on the Subaru Legacy Outback and will rival the likes of the Mitsubishi Outlander. Its not yet known if it will be American-only like the 9-2X.
:crying:

Now this sounds better Saab will produce its own(totally in-house)9-5 replacment and it will come in Saloon,Estate and a Fastback(tipped to be a four door supercar) bodies and will be based on the same chassis as Opel's Insignia concept. Sadly it will probably come in rear-wheel drive form, after Saab has been long associated with front-wheel drive cars. It will go on sale in 2007.
:smile:

You guys do realize that Saab didn't just recently switch to FWD? This has excisted for a looong time! In the 70's, Saab salesmen compared FWD with horseracing when there is a carriage behind the horse, and how stupid it sounds if the jockey (?) and his carriage would sit in front of the horse. Although the driving dynamics (especially in the higher motorized versions) would be much improved by switching to RWD, I'm afraid this would affect their excellent ability to drive on snow and ice. The ultimate solution would be providing a four wheel drive version.

9-2X a great leap ahead for Saab? You've got to be joking! What about safety? The Impreza is as safe to be in a crash as a bicycle travelling at 80km/h. Furthermore, the interior is way outdated, and the seats are dreadful compared to original Saab seats.

As a company, the 92x is a great step ahead for Saab. They finally have a car that fits into a huge buying market which none of their other cars do. You guys dont think so because you are saab purists, but come on, saab is never going to be like the old days.

As far as saftey goes, an impreza is a pretty safe car. (however not as safe as the typical saab) Hey, it could be worse, GM could have done all the designing and then it wouldnt be much safer than driving a tin can.

No no no, you have it all wrong. GM is NOT destroying Saab, Saab almost destroyed itself decades ago and recovered slowly, but not good enough. Now GM owns part of Saab in a way that you could call "lending a helping hand". Saab still designs the cars incase you didnt know.

GM is very good for SAAB . Saab have been financial bleeding for many years . Despite all the money thrown into Saab from GM, it looks very bad for Saab right now .
and there alott off rumour in sweden that they gone close the factory and move it to another country :banghead:

I heard that GM could be selling Saab to Peugeot.

Ion Pulse
i work at Saab or to be more exact Saab-BAe . and i have never heard abut Peugeot gone buy Saab. but GM want to move the factory to eastern Europe to save money .

but of course i can be wrongh :)

Saab will finally be releasing an in-house car in Spring 2005, the 9-3 SportsHatch which is a trendy lifestyle estate aimed at the Audi A4 Avant and Lexus SportCross. It looks good for this car especially with the new Fiat Multijet Diesels on offer.

Ion Pulse
i work at Saab or to be more exact Saab-BAe . and i have never heard abut Peugeot gone buy Saab. but GM want to move the factory to eastern Europe to save money .

but of course i can be wrongh :)

GM won't move the factory to eastern Europe, but perhaps to Russelheim in Germany where GM already make Opels. However, this decision isn't made yet, and the Swedish government is trying to make some deals with GM so they'll be staying in Trollhattan.

I'm glad I won't be seeing the bastard 9-2X here, although it doesn't look all that bad compared to the ugly Impreza. Rumors are that Saab will make a 9-6X (in cooperation with Subaru Tribeca) which will be a proper Saab, not just a quick re-do... Futhermore, a 9-3 Estate/SportWagon is due any moment now. A 9-3 Coupé wouldn't be impossible either, if they just used the Convertible and made a metal roof and so forth.

My initial thoughts on the 9-6X were bad, as i thought it would be similar to the Subaru version(like the 9-2X) but they will only share major components(under the skin) not interiors and body parts. Rumour has it that Saab is working on a totally new in-house car, to be styled similarly to the 9X concept car, it will be a off-roading coupe. Probably to be called the 9-4X, this will be a strictly niche model and won't see the light of day untill at least 2008.

I think it looks better than the current WRX, but not as good as the bug eyed WRX. Anyways, I think Saab and Volvo ruined themselves when they switched to front-wheel drive. Before they were fuel efficient sport sedans without the snob appeal of a BMW. Now they are just another car.

Joking, right? There has never ever been a SAAB produced with RWD. Back in 1947 when the areoplane manufacturer SAAB started to make cars it was a natural choise to make tha car FWD. Since then a lot of manufacturer has switch to fwd including volvo.

For more informatioen: http://www.saabusa.com/saabjsp/about/heritage.jsp

To be more accurate Volvo is FWD or AWD with all of their current models.

Joking, right? There has never ever been a SAAB produced with RWD. Back in 1947 when the areoplane manufacturer SAAB started to make cars it was a natural choise to make tha car FWD. Since then a lot of manufacturer has switch to fwd including volvo.

For more informatioen: http://www.saabusa.com/saabjsp/about/heritage.jsp

To be more accurate Volvo is FWD or AWD with all of their current models.

Correct. I was only showing that before it was popular to make cars with FWD volvo only had RWD. Now, when "every" manufacturer making FWD it´s nothing special. But in -47 SAAB was the only ( I think ) one offering ONLY FWD cars.

I still think SAAB should stay with it's 4-cylinder engines and FWD as standard and offer 4WD for those who think tehy need it. The 6-cylinder engines has less power and need more petrol than the 4-cylnder ones.

By putting V8, RWD and an american design to it will not make it a succesfull SAAB. If it sells well it will be a sucessfil car, and just a car.

Perhaps this (http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_shows/2005_geneva/0503_saab_9_3_sport/) will make you happy. I first layed eyes on it at the NYC Auto Shows, I think it looks very nice and true to Saab, at least in my opinion. It also says in the article that other 93 will have Saab exclusive 2l 210hp turbo 4s with fwd and awd being an option for only the wagon.

Perhaps this (http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_shows/2005_geneva/0503_saab_9_3_sport/) will make you happy. I first layed eyes on it at the NYC Auto Shows, I think it looks very nice and true to Saab, at least in my opinion. It also says in the article that other 93 will have Saab exclusive 2l 210hp turbo 4s with fwd and awd being an option for only the wagon.

Yapp, this car feels like a real SAAB. But I’m afraid that this is the last one. When GM told the world that the next generation of the 9-3 will be produced in Germany there was no surprise. But they told nothing about the design department that is to be closed in only a few months.

When design no longer is done by SAAB, the inheritage of the brand is lost and so will the reason to by a new SAAB be as well.

The car I’m currently driving is probably the last Swedish car I’ll ever buy. When SAAB is dead I really don’t care. I'll just by a car for the need of transportation.
Some will wonder why I'm not in for Volvo instead. For me and most of the Swedish population it’s just container.

After thew present SAAB it will probably be a Japanese car, a car with no soul. Then I have a car, just a car...

Not sure if I agree completely. While most Japanese cars really do drive like appliances Subaru's do have a distinctive 'soul' so to speak. Of course I do agree a Saabaru is not a real Saab. I also disagree with you on Volvos of course. I'll take a Volvo R over a Saab Aero anyday (heck even the T5s give the Aeros a run for the money) and since Volvo outsells Saab in every market I know of where both are present (including Sweden) it seems most people don't view them as mere containers.

Thanks.

-rdo

Yapp, this car feels like a real SAAB. But I’m afraid that this is the last one. When GM told the world that the next generation of the 9-3 will be produced in Germany there was no surprise. But they told nothing about the design department that is to be closed in only a few months.

When design no longer is done by SAAB, the inheritage of the brand is lost and so will the reason to by a new SAAB be as well.

The car I’m currently driving is probably the last Swedish car I’ll ever buy. When SAAB is dead I really don’t care. I'll just by a car for the need of transportation.
Some will wonder why I'm not in for Volvo instead. For me and most of the Swedish population it’s just container.

After thew present SAAB it will probably be a Japanese car, a car with no soul. Then I have a car, just a car...

Not sure if I agree completely. While most Japanese cars really do drive like appliances Subaru's do have a distinctive 'soul' so to speak. Of course I do agree a Saabaru is not a real Saab. I also disagree with you on Volvos of course. I'll take a Volvo R over a Saab Aero anyday (heck even the T5s give the Aeros a run for the money) and since Volvo outsells Saab in every market I know of where both are present (including Sweden) it seems most people don't view them as mere containers.

Thanks.

-rdo

Right you are. Volvo sells much better than SAAB. I grew up with plenty of Volvos. (Everyone had them) So even if Volvo has changed the look and felling quite a bit, still that boring feeling of the car can’t be washed away. For me that is.
I'm sure Volvo can produce good cars. But the soul of it is still just really boring to me. Their history of good and fun cars started just around the year 2000. Or a year earlier with the T5 as you mentioned
When SAAB showed the 99 Turbo in the late 70´s they really kicked some ass. And with there 9000 model in -84 SAAB was in the top in comparison.

Today the have a struggle to compete, thanks to some bad decision made in the late 80´s and the beginning of the 90´s

Well, we will see how this ends in about 2-3 years I think.

I do agree completely about subaru.

The 2006 Saab 9-3 SportCombi looks decent.

http://photos.velocityjournal.com/images/full/2005/177/sa200693wagon1776806.jpg

The 2006 Saab 9-3 SportCombi looks decent.

http://photos.velocityjournal.com/images/full/2005/177/sa200693wagon1776806.jpg

Yes it does. I visited the dealer 3 weeks ago and sat in the 9-3 SportCombi.
NICE!

as an employee (in a remote way) of saab, i have to agree that saab was rescued by gm back in the early 90's. saab couldnt afford the engineering to make a profitable car. they were barely surviving on the 900 and 9000 models. the 900 body style was around for too long and they knew it. the 9000 ran from 86-98!!!
a lot of saab purists scorned the "new" 900 in 94 as a gm car. in my opinion, it is the best car saab has made and probably ever will. at least the saab engineers were able to create it, unlike the newer saabs. it is the easiest car to work on ever, very reliable, and can be made very fast.
as the progression (or regression) of saab came inevitable changes. as of now, there is only one saab made in sweden, the 9-5, and that will be out of production in near future. (conv. made in austria, 92x in japan, 97x in ohio, sport combi in germany). as bad as it is for saab citizens and workers, it is a good move for gm because it gives them a greater variety in products and it makes them cheaper to build. ask volkswagon about not having many cars not made in their homeland. the newer generation saabs are not the same machines the small, inefficient company made years ago. they lack the "feel" of a true european car. they are way overcomplicated and over-engineered.
as for the 92x...it is not a saab and never will be. i have driven every model. it has no interior room, poor acceleration, poorer safety rating. why is the ignition in the steering column? i still think the wrx is overated in every way. the only exception would be the sti, which runs circles around a "regular" wrx. the 92x was a quick expiriment to get an all wheel drive saab on the road. it hasnt caught on here and will proabably fade as a mistake.
as for the future of saab...who knows. it wont have the heritage it once had, but maybe gm will let the new generation of saab become its own player. i still think it has the potential to become a great brand for gm, giving it can stay different enough from a cobalt or a saturn.
i also agree that a t5r will spank any saab. incredible car all around. i have to give volvo props for that car.
is a saab an incredible car? maybe. is it a super-fast supercar? no. i know that my wifes 9-3 5dr will spank a bmw 540 all day. it will also get 33 mpg at 85 mph. i love it and think it is the best practical car ever. it has way more class than any toyota, honda, or buick (practical) and will beat any of them on the street. where else can you find a 200 bhp car for the price? the soft value is credit for those that really like them.

Think of the 9-2 and 9-7 as place holders. Look at the Cadillac Catera... and now look at the CTS. Caddy is printing money with that car, and they had record sales with it the month before the "employee pricing" kicked in.

Hopefully Saab made out ok during that promo. When Saab replaces the 9-7, I will be first in line (already have a Rainier) and I think Saab has the potential to be revived and a great brand for GM. I think GM has the right strategy - it's just how fast can they execute it, and how well can they do it?

if SAAB had built a combi version of the 9000, and maybe a combi version out of the older 9-3.. then the situation would be different.. 7/10 saabs I see here in sweden is a 9-5combi. Whats really sad is that the only saab without center ignition, the 9000, is the most profitable this far :(

you have to understand that the U.S. only gets certain saabs. suv's are more popular than wagons (combi's) here. we dont have deisels or true base models. our base model here, is nearly a fully loaded one in sweden. as for profitability, it was the late 90's that really did it for saab and from what i hear, it was the sales of the 9-3 that really brought the numbers up. 98 was the last year for the 9000 and the only one that didnt see alot of warranty issues like older ones. i love 9000's but they are too expensive to fix in my opinion.
also, the 9000 cs or cse was technically a wagon if you remember. cd's were sedans.

I can;t believe what they have done.

My 1987 arctic silver is sweden direct, the way a saab should be.

I just saw a SAAB Sonnett, remember them ?
I remember the two cycle SAAB's with 3 cylinders.
Yes, GM has ruined SAAB, IMHO.:disappoin

if SAAB had built a combi version of the 9000, and maybe a combi version out of the older 9-3.. then the situation would be different.. 7/10 saabs I see here in sweden is a 9-5combi. Whats really sad is that the only saab without center ignition, the 9000, is the most profitable this far :(
I wish some of the older Saabs that were exclusive to Sweden could be seen here in Tampa, FL.

I think for a luxury brand like Saab, is not a good strategy start rebadging cars from not luxury brands.

With Cadillac in GM the best solution is sell Saab. Fiat can be a good buyer because they don't have luxury brands with high production now.