my 3.1 is half dead? (stalling, no power, fuel related?)

Hi all,

This is my first visit/post on this forum so please be kind to me :p

Here’s my problem I’m having with my 1997 Grand Am SE. (v6 3.1)

While I was driving it last week all of a sudden the engine lost ½ its power. The car would barely accelerate over 45-50 km/h and it started making a fast “ticking” sound. Well I managed to get pulled over and shutdown the engine. When I attempted to start it about 15 minutes later it started up fine however it was still ticking and was still lacking power. After a few minutes of driving it in that condition all of a sudden it came back to life. Everything was running smooth again. Well since I didn’t want to take a chance of this happening again I brought it to a local mechanic I know to check it out. (Since I’ve had a Check Engine light on now for almost 10 months.. long story on that alarm and never had problems before) Anyways.. While it was at the shop it was determined that the cause of my “Check Engine” alarm was due to a bad Cam sensor. (oh and my factory battery was toast since it wasn’t starting/turning anymore.. not bad.. got 8 years out it.. the battery that is..) Anyways.. After replacing the sensor and the battery the “check engine” light was off and everything “seemed” ok. So I drove the car home.. parked it.. then ½ hour later took it out for a spin.. well.. again.. all of a sudden I could hear the “fast” ticking sound and the engine had again lost ½ its power. Ever since then I’ve left it parked in my driveway and left me scratching my head. There’s no “check engine” light on neither. I don't want to take a chance driving it in that condition since I don't want to cause any further dammage to the engine.. (hopefully it's not too late!)

Any ideas on what would be the cause?

Here’s what I’ve done on my own before this occurred.
1. replaced air filter
2. replaced gas filter
3. replaced spark plug wires with new Ac Delco wire kit.
4. the plugs in it are Bosh platinum plugs with the 4 tips
5. I’ve always changed my oil everything 5k to 8k .. and now it’s got synthetic oil

It’s been suggested to me that it might be my Fuel Regulator or Fuel pump… Now I’m no expert mechanic so I’m really not sure what to think.. and I don’t feel like spending hundreds of dollars on labour in trying to figure this out… I’m sure I could handle the job myself if I had proper instructions..

This problem could also be related to the “stumbling” problem I’ve been having for the past 6 months. On take-off it hesitates and sometimes stalls when I start driving.. no clue why that’s happening.. ???

Any help would GREATLY be appreciated…

Thanks
-Jean

It looks like the catalytic converter partially plugged up. If the catalytic converter is partially plugged up then the exhaust has a hard time coming out of the exhaust manifold and so it causes the engine to work harder just expel the exhaust gases and it would manifest itself as lost engine power.
You will start hearing it like a ticking noise but then gradually a very high pitched whistle.
What happens if you just let it IDLE (Park) and push the gas pedal down slowly to WOT (Wide Open Throttle)? Do you hear that ticking noise?

Also...

Three things I want you to check.

1. Take out your IAC (Idle Air Control solenoid) which is located on the throttle body. Clean it with a throttle body cleaner and a brush. Clean the spot where the IAC goes in to the throttle body.
If that does not work you may have to replace the IAC $29.

2. The TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) also causes problem which is located below the IAC. The TPS at IDLE provides voltage value to the computer and that's what how computer determine the position of the throttle plate. If there is a dead spot on the TPS providing incorrect voltage then it will throw the computer a little bit. The TPS can't be cleaned and you just have to replace it $19.

3. The MAF (Mass Air Flow sensor usually located right after the air filter box) or ACT (Air Charge Temperature sensor usually located on the side of the air filter box). Try cleaning them with some throttle body cleaner and let it dry.

Check the connectors as well of all sensors.

right on! thxs for the quick reply!

I went to my local hardware store and bought a can of throttle body cleaner during my lunch break. I even bought a Fuel Pressure Tester so I can make sure that's not the cause. (I just have to figure out how to use one! anybody have a quick how-to?)

I'll try all this stuff tonight and let you know.

thxs again
-Jean

If you are talking about the Fuel Pressure Tester. You just connect it to the Fuel Rail Schrader valve and turn the Ignition Switch to ON.
Typical fuel pressure is around 40-50 PSI and when you start the engine (running), the fuel pressure should drop around 4-10 PSI. Check your Haynes or Chilton's manual for your car Fuel Pressure specs.

I don't think my 97 has a Fuel Rail Schrader valve since I can't seem to be able to locate it.. and I can't really tell by looking at the Haynes book.. I guess I'll have to use the "T" and hoses that came with the tester.. Hopefully I'll have some time to play with this tonight.. thxs again Slade901.. I'll get back to you when I have some test results :)

Here are my results so far:

Checked the Fuel Pressure (I finally found the Fuel Rail Schrader valve)and it's at 41 psi (book says it should be between 41 and 48) I also made sure the pressure raised once I unhooked the vacuum hose off the fuel regulator. So this means the fuel pump and regulator are fine.. (according to the book)


It looks like the catalytic converter partially plugged up. If the catalytic converter is partially plugged up then the exhaust has a hard time coming out of the exhaust manifold and so it causes the engine to work harder just expel the exhaust gases and it would manifest itself as lost engine power.
You will start hearing it like a ticking noise but then gradually a very high pitched whistle.
What happens if you just let it IDLE (Park) and push the gas pedal down slowly to WOT (Wide Open Throttle)? Do you hear that ticking noise?

-tried this and the ticking simply gets louder and faster.. no change.. it sounds like it's coming from inside the engine block..

Also...

Three things I want you to check.

1. Take out your IAC (Idle Air Control solenoid) which is located on the throttle body. Clean it with a throttle body cleaner and a brush. Clean the spot where the IAC goes in to the throttle body.
If that does not work you may have to replace the IAC $29.

-took the IAC out and cleaned it with the cleaner and brush.. measured it and made sure it was ok according to book specs.. seems to be fine.. was a little carb build up.. but the cleaner got rid of most of it..

2. The TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) also causes problem which is located below the IAC. The TPS at IDLE provides voltage value to the computer and that's what how computer determine the position of the throttle plate. If there is a dead spot on the TPS providing incorrect voltage then it will throw the computer a little bit. The TPS can't be cleaned and you just have to replace it $19.

- Can't really test this thing or clean.. (per the book and what you've said.. I guess I'll have to replace it :(

3. The MAF (Mass Air Flow sensor usually located right after the air filter box) or ACT (Air Charge Temperature sensor usually located on the side of the air filter box). Try cleaning them with some throttle body cleaner and let it dry.

- Ran some of the throttle body cleaner through the throttle body while it was running... no change..

Check the connectors as well of all sensors.

- all the wires and sensors "seem" to be fine.. no corrosion..

also...

-I've also checks the ERG and it "seems" fine.. some carbon build up in there and I think the gasket is shot on it.. I'm going to pick up a new one tomorrow.. the pin inside (or solonoid) seems fine.. don't know how else to test this thing.. this may be my main problem?

-I took apart the DIS (ignition module/coil pack) to make sure I didn't have any corrusion or a bad connection.. everything seemed fine..


So after doing all of that I took the car for a spin and it's still running like 1/2 the engine it dying a slow death.. it seems like it even getting worse... I have trouble even taking off...(speed up) The one thing I did notice when I had finished taking everthing apart and then back together is that it ran (while parked) ok for about 1 or 2 mins without ticking.. and then again all of a sudden it started again..oh and the "check engine" light it back again.. may be due to what I've been doing so far..

HELP! I'm stumped... :(

thxs
-Jean

The ticking noise could be coming from the fuel injectors. Failing fuel injectors starts making a loud ticking noise when it is failing. I would put a whole bottle of fuel injector cleaner first and hoping it would unclog and clean the fuel injectors. Some folks even put two bottle of fuel injector cleaners in their fuel tank just to get extra cleaning power.

When this ticking noise comes on, does your oil pressure guage go down to Low or 0 PSI?
If the oil pressure go down to Low or 0 PSI when the ticking starts, then you have low oil pressure. Probabl caused by worn out crankshaft bearings or just plugged up oil passage ways. I usually pour 1 quart of Gunk Motor Oil Flush into the existing oil and start the engine for 5 minutes and turn it off. Drain the oil and put new oil and oil filter. I pour 3/4 oil in the new oil filter before I put it in. I would use 5W30 temporarily and see if the ticking noise is gone. I would then change oil to 10W30 after 1,000 miles.
If the ticking noise does not go away after using Gunk Motor Oil Flush and doing oil change then I would replace the oil pump and oil pump filter/strainer.

I had a similar problem after putting in th bosch platinum 4. I took it out put in the oem ac delco plugs and the car runs great. Many 3100 engines have problems with the +4's

actually I forgot to post on here what it was..

turns out it was a lifter that was failling... which then was causing my piston to run out of whack.. which then trigerred the knock sensor to change the timming to compensate for the failling piston...

I ended up replacing ALL the lifters and seals needed for the job.. cost quite a few dollars however the car run perfectly now! (just like new.. no ticking or hesitation)

I might still yank those bosh plugs out and go back to the delcos.. can't hurt anything :)

thanks again guys for the GREAT help and advice..

-JG

2. The TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) also causes problem which is located below the IAC. The TPS at IDLE provides voltage value to the computer and that's what how computer determine the position of the throttle plate. If there is a dead spot on the TPS providing incorrect voltage then it will throw the computer a little bit. The TPS can't be cleaned and you just have to replace it $19.

I'd go with this :-) Same situation happened to me last summer. Lost a lot of power, and the engine sounded like it was heaving pretty hard. Question for you... when driving like that, does it upshift harder or take a longer time to upshift?

When is the last time you had a proper tune up? Not just plugs and wires, but cats, diagnostic, etc? Maybe all she needs is some TLC.

--Jason

Heh--next ime I'll remember to read the entire thread before posting a reply :-) Glad ya got it fixed and runs like a dream!

--Jason