New to muscle: how does this sound?

I was interested in import 4 cylinders and turbos for the year or so (they're what all my friends have/wanted). I've finally realized out that these engines just aren't worth the money to get the hp up and that v8s are the way to go (thank hot rod tv for that). I just love the classic styling so much more than the rice that is in style today. Anyway I've given myself a crash course on muscle cars and this is what I've come up with. I tried searching for info but it was overwhelming trying to familiarize myself with a different type of engine. Please help me out and tell me if this is a good course to take for a novice and forgive me for anything stupid I will probably say.

With around $8,000 I want to buy a 68-72 Chevelle chassis with decent paint, good tranny and drop in a rebuilt Chevy 350. I want to make this my daily driver but still be suitable for occasional street/drag racing. After the basic airfilter/exhaust mods etc., I don't really know what to do (upgrade cams?). Generally how much power will I be making at this point? Also what would the general weight of a Chevelle with a 350 be?

I'm getting a bit ahead of myself, but briefly, are chevy 350s suitable for an intercooled turbo application. I am still more comfortable and familiar with turbocharging and feel I would suit my needs better than supercharging.

I'll try to search up on the rest of my questions but in the meantime thanks for any advice.

well i think your car is a good choice. you shouldnt have much trouble finding one. but finding one with decent paint and a good tranny and it will probably have a godo engine with it. for like 3 grand you could probably get a fairly nice one. as for the engine providing you need to build it and didnt get one that is already built atleast some, for power your best bet would be heads, intake, carb, headers, and CAM. not multipol. must be your import info showing. there is only one cam in old cars with the exception of a very select few engines. with those mods you can be at 350-400HP no problem. if your willing to do everything to run turbos then yes a 350 would be good for it providing you build it for that. you would need to completly rebuild the engine with parts that are made to handle that much power. just so you know its not like going to any shop and getting a turbo kit right. it doesnt work that way. i have only see a couple places that have done it. and the stuff was not cheep. you would probably be doing alot of custom work yourself or getting someone to do it custom. no ordering headers and everything and just bolting it on. i dont know of anyone who has any kind of kit or anything for small block chevys.

Thanks alot for the info. I've seen DOHC so often I don't even think of a camshaft as singular anymore (I do remember reading that last night though). I don't what I will do yet about forced induction, turbos are so readily availble on 4cyl. I just thought that would be the way to go. I guess a small screw supercharger (is that right) would be suitable for my needs or by then I may just bore and stoke. I have all summer to think about it, and to learn.

A 350 in a Chevelle? The only engine for that car is a 454. That's just my opinion though, I love big blocks.

...are chevy 350s suitable for an intercooled turbo application.

There were a lot of 350s with compressons ranging from 8.5:1 to maybe 13.5:1. The low compression engines are prime candidates for a big air pump. They certainly need something.

I think that blowing a high compression engine will give you grief even with an intercooler. You will probably need to change fuels or inject water or something. Remember that PV=nRT and when T reaches the ignition point the mixture will light even if the cylinder is before TDC. You don't want part of your crankshaft trying to go backwards on a hot day.

Good luck.

um....if you want all this shitload of power...why don't you just get a big block? ditch the turbo-350 idea. with the money you'd waste on doing that you could have just bought a bigblock to start with.

A Chevelle is a big car -- it needs a big engine! There is nothing like a naturally aspirated good running big block! For big power you need either cubic inches or cubic dollars!

A Chevelle is a big car -- it needs a big engine! There is nothing like a naturally aspirated good running big block! For big power you need either cubic inches or cubic dollars!

not if its a sbc 350. not to mention when you say "you need either cubic inches or cubic dollars" you are talking about the same thing, it takes more money for a big block than a 350. have you built a sbc 350 and a big block. you can spend half as much money on a 350 as a big block and make more power with it. you have to spend more money on the cubic inches becuase the parts cost more. a 350 can make as much or more power than a big block for ALOT less money. and not to mention then your adding more weight to the car with the big block.

Well yeah, you are right about the cost to build a BB. And you can build a great small block for not very much. And there is the weight issue. So for someone building on the cheap a SB would be much better.

But I gotta tell you I would much rather have a Chevelle with the torque of a strong running 454! In a Camaro or Corvette a SB would be the way to go for me. I've had a couple SB Chevelles, and I have driven a friends BB Chevelle -- no comparison! Of-course my SB's were stock with intake and exhaust mods only. If you are comparing built SB's to mostly stock BB's then the SB has the edge for sure -- especially since it wouldn't be a 350 anymore anyway (I mean if you are building it why keep the stock crank!). And as for the weight, well to me Chevelles are mostly straight line cars anyway. So, I would still go for a BB. :2cents: And after all a BB Chevy has a lot more potential than a SB Chevy!

Never send a boy to do a MAN'S job... A small block in a big car is a recipe for disappointment. True, you can build a small block to make decent high rev power, low-end and mid-range is what makes a muscle car a muscle car! If you want a good, dependable and DRIVABLE car, go big block.

I said it once, Ill say it again- 383 stroker

Never send a boy to do a MAN'S job... A small block in a big car is a recipe for disappointment. True, you can build a small block to make decent high rev power, low-end and mid-range is what makes a muscle car a muscle car! If you want a good, dependable and DRIVABLE car, go big block.

for an "ASE master engine mechanic" you dont seem to intelegent when it comes to small blocks. your comment about building a small block that has "decent high rev power" seems ingnorent to me. maybe not ignorent but not well informed. what would you say about my sbc 350 this is making somewhere just over 300 ft.lbs. of torque by the time i start moving, (2200 stall converter). it makes over 400 ft.lbs. of torque by 3500 RPM's. and it is built to only rev to about 5000-5200RPM's. and its in my daily drive 68 chevelle.

then engine you put in a car should not be decided by wether it has more qubic inches, but more by what you want to do with the car and how much you want to spend building the car to do what you want. it is alot easier to build a sbc 350 to put out alot more torque than it would be to build a high reving 350. and if you think a chevelle is a heavy car what would you concider a caprice or impala? i think of a chevelle as more of a medium weight car. its not as light as a camaro or nova but not as heavy as a impala or caprice, especialy my dads 68 wagon.

I said it once, Ill say it again- 383 stroker

damn straight. probably the best engine anyone can build. atleast thats my opinion.

I'd like to start by saying that I think its great to see that you've made the switch from rice to muscle--I'm sure you won't regret it. I'm also sure that you won't regret buying a Chevelle, they are timeless cars that stand out anywhere.

I know that you're more familiar with 4 cylinder engines, and while there are basic automotive principles that hold true with every application, the mechanics of a DOHC 4 cyl. and a pushrod V-8 are markedly different. Turbochargers are the forced induction of choice on inline fours because they make relatively little power to begin with. As I'm sure you are aware, most import enthusiasts view turbos as free horsepower adder. Turbochargers do create backpressure in the exhaust and create a number of heat related problems, but aside from that, they are correct, as a good turbocharger setup is probably 75-80% efficient.

Turbochargers are not nearly as popular with V-8 applications, and for several good reasons. The engines that we work with, even when stock, generally make much more power than any 4-cyl setup available today. Thus, we have the freedom and flexibility to go with less efficient, but more powerful and practical method of forced induction--the supercharger.

Superchargers are essentially belt-driven compressors that deliver boost to your engine much in the same way as a turbocharger does. Although superchargers generally sap 30 horsepower for every 100 that they add, this loss in efficiency is generally compensated by four very important advantages: less heat, no "lag", greater boost, and greater reliability. Superchargers come in 2 basic designs, centrifugal and screw/"roots". The centrifugal superchargers look just like turbos, but they are belt driven and generally bolt on with few clearance issues. Screw superchargers like you were talking about sit on top of the intake manifold and deliver boost via two rotating lobes that move incoming air from a low pressure chamber to a high pressure chamber, and hence are sometimes referred to as "positive displacement" superchargers. The main advantage of this type of setup is greatly reduced heat. As you know, turbos run very hot, and most air-to-air intercoolers are only 25-30% efficient, meaning that the incoming charge is still hot. A screw type blower makes relatively little heat and delivers excellent power without cooking your parts. The only considerable drawback is hood clearance, which is something you would have to account for.

As for the small block vs. big block debate...I'm a fan of both. If money were no object then I would definately go with the big block, but given that you are on a budget, I might evaluate the alternatives. My best friend has a 1970 1/2 Z/28 Camaro with the stock LT/1 bored .30 over, with a hydraulic cam, rocker lifters, 770cfm street avenger, MSD ignition and distributor, Hooker headers, and flowmaster exaust that pulls 414hp on the dyno with 448 ft/lbs of torque. Let me assure you that he has been able to beat everything that we've tried to race. While the Chevelle is a bigger car, I think you could get excellent power if you combined the idea of getting a screw type blower with one of the other suggestions-- a stroker motor.

In case you aren't familiar with the concept, stroker motors are essentially stock engines that have their cylinder bores widened, their strokes lengthened, and their crankshaft replaced which results in a moderate horsepower increase and a fairly dramatic boost in torque. The whole idea is to get the torque of a big block while maintaining the weight of a small block, and while nothing truly compares to the cubes of a big block, a blown stroker would definately be a pavement melter that would set your car apart from the rest.

Sorry about the long post!

A Chevelle is a big car -- it needs a big engine! There is nothing like a naturally aspirated good running big block! For big power you need either cubic inches or cubic dollars!

GM classed the Chevelle as a mid-size car. A Caprice is a big car and a Corvair is a small one.

In 1970 the Caprice was available with a 350c.i./300 H.P. motor that moved it along pretty good. That 350 outperformed the 348 Police interceptor (big block) of a decade before, as I recall. Putting a high-output small (> 5 litres) block like that in a Chevelle will make it move pretty good. Putting a big block with 500 lb. ft. of torque will probably not move a car with street tires any better but just burn even more rubber. There were several rare mid-size cars of that era that came with big engines. Some were mild engines like the 389 in the GTO and some were completely crazy like high-compression 454s in Novas.

What it comes down to is just how crazy a car is desired.

360 horsepower from 389 CID could hardly be considered "mild", though the cam didn't make the car rock the ground at idle. I only saw one dealer-installed 454 in a Nova. The '69 and '70 SS 396 Novas were the only factory big block cars I ever saw. Not bad runners, but the chassis was over-taxed. An X-body needs a lot of help when that kind of torque is applied.
As for my ignorance in building small blocks versus big blocks, well, let me say this about that:
If you can't build a strong small block in my business, you don't eat. I like to eat. And eat pretty well, thank you!
I build some of the more dominant lower class circle track small blocks in my area. I also build 400s that propel 3,400 lb. Novas to 9.40 @ 140 IN STREET TRIM. Many of the local bracket racers run my small blocks. In short, I don't give a damn what color you paint the engine, I build it, and build it well.
In a 3,800 lb. street car, you cannot make a small block power the car as well as a big block unless you spend tons of money and rev it to the moon. Your 440 lb. ft. and 5,200 RPM small block would get spanked badly by a 500 lb. ft./400 horsepower 454 in similar cars. Shall we talk about a 462 Pontiac? You must always remember a couple of very important issues. One man's "street" motor is another's "race" motor. While you may be willing to put up with a radical motor, many are not. The other is while a small block Chevy is truly one of the better designs ever, and a good engine for nearly all applications, it is not the end-all, beat-all. Beat up on too many with stuff stickin' through the hood and rockin' the ground. You can argue all you want. It won't change it.
I don't race. I haven't for many years. I build race engines. I also build tractor engines, and everything in between. It has been my experience that people that recommend to others, a combination they have, are either happy with their's (a good thing), or seeking justification for their choices (not necessarily a good thing). There is no "one size fits all", especially when it comes to cars and engines. Where a small block has done the job for you, a big block may be a better choice for another. Big blocks are definitely easier to extract high levels of street-speed power.

As for my ignorance in building small blocks versus big blocks, well, let me say this about that:

Sorry, I did not see the post that claimed you were ignorant, in fact, your posts show that you are knowledgable and experienced. The problem is the original post limited the budget to $8000 for a '68 to '72 Chevelle. A factory big-block from this period in decent shape must be worth a mint. My old information puts the COPO at over $50,000 and an SS396 at over $16,000 so the big-block has got to be over budget to start with.

Now let us suppose that Sebringbling does find a Chevelle in good shape for cheap. It will almost certainly have a small block. A few parts and maybe an engine rebuild and it will be a nice hot car.

Contrast this with the cost of converting to a big block. First problem is the difference in the cost of the motors. A big chunk of the budget will go to that. Then the front suspension will have to be beefed up and a new rear end for the added torque. Something on the rear to prevent wheel hop and some frame reinforcing. Maybe even a new transmission depending on what it came with. That has got to be tough to do for a total budget of $8000.

Of course since you are in the business you probably already know how to get some good discounts maybe you can help the guy to build his dream car for that amount of money.

Sorry, I did not see the post that claimed you were ignorant, in fact, your posts show that you are knowledgable and experienced. The problem is the original post limited the budget to $8000 for a '68 to '72 Chevelle. A factory big-block from this period in decent shape must be worth a mint. Mmy old information puts the COPO at over $50,000 and an SS396 at over $16,000] so the big-block has got to be over budget to start with.

Now let us suppose that Sebringbling does find a Chevelle in good shape for cheap. It will almost certainly have a small block. A few parts and maybe an engine rebuild and it will be a nice hot car.

Contrast this with the cost of converting to a big block. First problem is the difference in the cost of the motors. A big chunk of the budget will go to that. Then the front suspension will have to be beefed up and a new rear end for the added torque. Something on the rear to prevent wheel hop and some frame reinforcing. Maybe even a new transmission depending on what it came with. That has got to be tough to do for a total budget of $8000.

Of course since you are in the business you probably already know how to get some good discounts maybe you can help the guy to build his dream car for that amount of money.

I just have to say, that I've had both and loved them, as to the price issue, you could go to a local wrecking yard and get a complete big block for a few hundred dollars. When you think of it this way it kind of puts a new twist on the price thing, I restore cars for a living and use both engines alot, as for the big block you could do the wrecking yard thing, and put 1,500 in to the enging to rebuild and have a stock big block that would perform well at the low end of the rpm range and have mass amounts of torque and power, just think your converting for a 4 cylinder boat ancher to a real power plant.

So stock would be impressive for you probably, I also don't agree with the small block not being able to pull your Chevelle, which by the way I must give you congrats on your chioce of cars, it's a real Americn muscle car, and commcand respect on the roads, I've seen plenty of small blocks that would pull a 56 Chevy in the 9 and 10 sec quarter miles, a small block is no pussy engine, it will on the other hand take you a lot more money to squeeze the smae power out of less inches and that's about the bottom of that issue.

David C. Atkin

...I restore cars for a living and use both engines alot, as for the big block you could do the wrecking yard thing, and put 1,500 in to the enging...

For Sebringbling to actually do this project he will need to know many details on how to proceed. First problem is that 68-72 Chevelles are very desirable automobiles and demand for them has never waned. Of course since they had double the power and double the mileage of post '73s it is no wonder. After '73 auto sales dropped dramatically as demand disappeared because people kept driving their '60s iron. Due to the large production of the '73 coupled with the lack of demand methinks it is the '73 that will be the easiest to find for cheap.

So, given a '73 Chevelle, what is the next step for him to take? What kind of big block should he be looking for at the auto wreckers?

Sorry to get off-track, but I heard turbocharged small-block mentioned and my mind immediately went to the '79 - '81 Trans-Am Turbo. That car always poses a dilemma when I think about it. If I were ever to get one (not likely) would I keep it stock to mainitain its value, or would I look into putting more modern turbo technology into it (twin composite turbos, intercooler, modern engine management system, etc.)? I don't have an answer. I don't think I'll ever need one. But a '81 Trans-Am Turbo with a turbo setup comparable to a GNX should be astounding...