1994 grand cherokee missing transfer case fluid


Apps
05-13-2004, 11:48 AM
I have a '94 GC with automatic trans., 5.2 liter engine and quadratrac. My transfer case fluid keeps disappearing. There really aren't any signs of leakage around the transfer case. I have noticed some drips coming off of the two transmission fluid lines that are just in front of the transmission pan. Does the transfer case fluid somehow go into the transmission? I really have no idea.

The other item I am wondering about is all of the information out on the internet about what kind (i.e. weight, anti slip, etc.) of lubricant to use in the differentials. The book says one thing however, I have read too many conflicting reports and others suggest using different weight and types. The jeep dealer said to use "247"....whatever that is. What about the transmission fluid?

Any information would be greatly appreciated,

cbftbl87
05-13-2004, 12:54 PM
80W-90 in the differentials. ATF+3 transmission fluid for the transmission(or ATF+4 if you want to spend the extra money).

Apps
05-13-2004, 06:30 PM
Any ideas on where the transfer case fluid is going or what 247 is?

Apps
05-19-2004, 07:47 PM
I found out that 247 is the ATF from Jeep that is used in the transfer case. What type of synthetic differential lubricant do you suggest and what weight?

98cam
05-20-2004, 07:36 AM
I have similar Jeep and unless the TC input/output shaft seals aren't leaking the fluid shouldn't leak out. Tranny fluid leak from the high pressure line at the radiator(the bottom line)is typical for these Jeeps. The quick press/slip connector can be replaced within 15 minutes. I would replace this or you'll spend more $$$ for fluid than what a connector cost. The same ATF is used for tranny and TC also should be changed every 10k miles. The front diff oil is 75W-90 API GL and the rear diff oil is 90W API GL-5 or if you have a limited slip diff use 75W-140 synthetic with(a must)friction modifier. I hope this helps.Peace.

Apps
05-26-2004, 10:54 AM
Frustration!

I just checked the level in the transfer case after the dealer put a speedo sensor in and I am still low on fluid! I really have no idea where the t/c fluid is going. Could someone please help.

JDPascal
05-26-2004, 11:33 AM
Hi Apps

If there are no external leaks, the only place it can possibly go is into the transmission.

Is the transmission level high or higher than it was??

Being the transfer case is lower than the transmission, the only possibilty I can think of is the lube pump flow in the transfer case is getting directed past the seal to the transmission tail shaft housing.

not too likely but possible.

other option - someone is trying to play with your mind.

JD

Caribbean ZJ
05-26-2004, 12:37 PM
did the dealer actually replace the fluid?

JDPascal
05-26-2004, 01:06 PM
good question Caribbean ZJ

95Orvis
05-26-2004, 02:22 PM
Apps,

I have a 95 JGC with the 5.2L and had my transfercase rebuilt in 2000 for $2,300. The dealer told me that there was no fluid in it when they cracked it open.

It sounds like you may have caught yours early enough to avoid a rebuild. At the time I also had never noticed ANY leaks so I am still baffled today at where the fluid went. My thought as someone mentioned, was that maybe somebody screwed around with and drained the fluid. I doubt it but have no other possible ideas.

After that expensive repair, I began to have a leak in one of the seals about 2yrs later. Since the dealer had a VERY VERY difficult time finding parts for the transfercase and could not find a replacement, they said Chrysler no longer manufactures it, I have decided to not have anyone touch it. I leave cardboard under it in the garage and top it off with fluid every 2 weeks. I am scared to have someone open it up only to find out parts aren't available. If I knew, that it could be repaired for a reasonable amount of money, I would do it in a heartbeat because I love the vehicle but am not going to risk putting it on the lift to find out it has to be totalled.

Recently I started considering buying a remanufactured transfercase from www.drivetrain.com for about $750 and getting a local mechanic to do the job. I figure that the whole thing will run about $1,100 but I will essentially have a new xfercase. Given $500/month for a new car payment, the new xfercase might be worth the money.

Good luck and please post anything you find out as I am interested for my own situation.

Thanks

Apps
05-26-2004, 03:35 PM
Hello and thank you for responding. I have checked all over the internet for the problem that I am having with the missing t-case fluid. In answer to some of your questions: I had an independent mechanic check the fluid before I drove it ~20 miles to the dealer. I was with the mechanic when he checked the level. Couldn't reach any fluid with his little finger so we dropped the drain plug on the t-case and only a half of cup came out. The mechanic added 1.5 liters to top it up and I drove it 2 blocks to get home.

The next day, I took it to the dealer. The Jeep mechanic told me upon his check of the t-case, that there wasn't any fluid in it. I told him that I had just had it filled (as I watched it being done) and only drove it ~20 miles to get there to the dealer. He checked out the problem and told me that it was the speedo sensor and installed a new one. The mechanic also stated (and all of this is in writing on his diagnosis) that he also put pipe sealant on the threads of the drain and fill plugs of the t-case. Then he took it for a ride (until t-case got hot), brought it back and said the problem should be fixed.

Well.......upon my ~20 mile drive home, I could hear the t-case making noise again. H-m-m-m-m....I'm thinking....yea....bologna.....you fixed my problem! I checked the t-case level today and it is empty again.

So....since I am not into throwing my money away for no reason, I'm going to take it back to the independent mechanic in a couple of days (why spend the money on the dealer.....it seems that they just supply a bandaid to the problem, get their money and say "oh well...got another one").

As I stated in my earlier post, the only place that I see any "trans fluid wetness" is in the area in front of the transmission pan where the two trans fluid lines cross from the drivers side of the trans pan to the passenger side and then disappear up towards the battery. I don't know, maybe one of those lines has a hole in it? I don't do any off roading so nothing is smashed, bent or broken in that area. I don't see any fluid leaking near the input or output seals. I don't see any leaking on the t-case at all. I have checked the rad. fluid and don't see trans fluid in there. Someone suggested that I check the vacuum line to the transmission to see if there is something coming out of there as that would indicate the shift module is not good (guess the independent will have to do that as I don't know how). Someone suggested that maybe the high pressure line at the bottom of the rad. is leaking (another check for the independent).

I will let you know what I find out when I take it in a couple of days (that's the first that the independent can see me) as it is all driving me crazy! AND...I will never buy another jeep or chrysler product again!!!

Oh....and one very wonderful site that I found on TSB's that I would like to share with everyone is: http://home.sc.rr.com/janet. It seems that no one wants to give up the information on how to get info. on TSB's however, this one does and I thank you!

Apps

Apps
05-27-2004, 11:44 AM
Get this! I checked my transfer case this morning and my transfer case is FULL of fluid! I called the dealer that I had put the speedo sensor in and told them of my findings i.e. that I checked the t-case 5 minutes after a 20 mile drive and how I couldn't touch any t-case fluid through the inspection plug. Then this a.m. (after Jeep sat all night), the t-case was FULL!!!!! The Jeep mechanic stated that during operation, the fluid is up, in, around and through the t-case (similar to a vehicles engine oil) and after if cools, it collects back to the t-case. This doesn't seem right to me as I don't know how all of that fluid could disappear in such a small area as the t-case. Does this make sense to you. I can understand the engine analogy however, not the t-case. Any ideas now????

I wonder if this is normal operation for the t-case? It seems to me that it is not being properly lubricated as the t-case is noisy when it warms up.

Thanks for listening....Apps

JDPascal
05-27-2004, 11:52 AM
there is a pump that circulates lube to the upper end of the case.

It may be that the there is enough oil held up there to drop thelevel below what you can reach with your finger.

try the 5 minute check again with a wire that will go down 2 inches or more to see how far the level drops.

The oil can't get out of the t-case except for an external leak or past the input seal into the transmission.

Apps
05-27-2004, 11:57 AM
What is the name of the pump and is this "normal" operation for a transfer case to fluctuate in lubricant levels?

I am afraid to drive the thing today so when I take it to the independent tomorrow, I'll have him check the level. Is there any website I can look at so I can aquaint myself with the transfer case, where the pump might be and how it all works? I like to be educated. Thank you

JDPascal
05-27-2004, 09:43 PM
Hey Apps :)

Its the lube pump and its located on the output shaft.

It circulates oil to the upper shaft and bearings. Every transfer case has one. at least the ones with a chain drive.

the oil that circulates should drain back fairly rapidly and five minutes should be lots of time but.................

as for how it works, I don't know of any specific site that shows the lube pump but howstuffworks.com has a section on how 4wd works in their "autostuff" section.

though the pump design is different, it works the same as the lube system in the engine - just no filter to change: you drain the dirt when you drain the oil.

as for driving it, if you have oil in it in the morning there should be no problem.

Apps
05-27-2004, 09:56 PM
Thank you for the info. Do you think that the lube pump is working properly if I cannot touch (~3 inches) any t-case fluid after driving it? It doesn't seem right like it's not being properly lubricated while driving thus contributing to the noisy (probably already ruined) t-case--again!
I'll check out howstuffworks.com.

JDPascal
05-27-2004, 10:11 PM
the quadra-trac only holds 2.5 US pints so the level would likely drop quite a bit when the oil is circulating.

If it is making noise then you better get it looked at.

Apps
05-28-2004, 06:57 AM
O.K. I'll mention that today when I take it to the independent. He was going to check on some reasons why himself as he is the one that discovered that the t-case didn't have any (well....half of cup) fluid in the first place. He filled the t-case and when I took it to the dealer (and the Jeep sat for at least an hour and I think more), there wasn't any fluid in it either. So strange!
I'll get an estimate of what is wrong with it hopefully today.
Thanks and I'll keep you posted.

Apps
06-10-2004, 01:34 PM
I have another question AND maybe a suggestion for some of you having the same problem as I.

In my search to find out where the transfer case fluid is going (and I have been searching for quite a while now) I have come across some more information and wanted to know what any of you reading this post think about this. A gentleman that I talked to said that the reason that I am loosing my transfer case fluid is (the way I understand it); there is a "freeze up plug" in the input shaft of the transfer case that has broken or something (as I don't understand all of this). This allows fluid to travel through the input shaft via the splines. Does this sound right? The output seal from the transmission and the input seal on the transfer case are o.k.. Could the "freeze up plug" be the culprit in loosing transfer case fluid?

Any feed back would be appreciated.....and....thank you.

leowolf
06-13-2004, 08:59 PM
ok so if he got to the dealer and he said it was empty how did it get empty? App put fluid in it, where did it go? I have a thought, after crawling around on the garage floor for the past 25 min, Ive come up with an educated guess. there is a vent line that runs from the TC on the drivers side up to the upper mount bolt on the trany just behind the engine head on the passenger side. if it has rotted and slipped down into the air stream under the vehicle, it could be sifoning the fluid from the TC.

A second thought, though unlikely is that someone may have thought it was a vacuum line and hooked it up to a vacuum source.

If senerio a is correct, then the back and underside of the truck should be covered in oil and dust stuck to it.

If senerio B is correct you should be blowing lots of blue smoke at highway speed

If the vent line is missing completely it will also loose fluid

So do this: Remove the vent line from the TC, start the truck, check for vacuum by putting you finger over the hose. if there is vacuum, well that sucks!!! lol remove the vacuum source and brace the line high on the bodies water line.

Apps
06-13-2004, 10:30 PM
Leowolf....what about the "freeze up plug (mentioned in my post before this one)?" Have you ever heard of such a thing? I'll check into the other stuff tomorrow and thank you for the input.

leowolf
06-13-2004, 10:41 PM
i dont see a post for a freeze plug

Apps
06-14-2004, 07:29 AM
Leowolf...." A gentleman that I talked to said that the reason that I am loosing my transfer case fluid is (the way I understand it); there is a "freeze up plug" in the input shaft of the transfer case that has broken or something (as I don't understand all of this)." This was in my post before your first post on this thread.

I have been looking on the net for a picture or information on this (I think it is called) "freeze up plug and I cannot find anything. Maybe it is called something else.

Thanks.....Apps

Apps
06-18-2004, 10:21 AM
Well...I think my search has come to any end. Seems that it is true that the "freeze plug" (other people call it other names) inside of the input gear in the transfer case is the culprit for allowing the t-case fluid to travel to the tranny leaving the t-case almost dry (and the end result is a trashed t-case!). It "doesn't happen very often" I have been told by many transfer case rebuilders however, it does happen.

Even though my transfer case problem has been figured out, I have chosen to replace the 249J for a 242J as it would probably cost the same amount to repair as to replace. I'm getting rid of the pain in the you know where 249J as they are to touchy and malfunction to easily. This is the third major repair on the t-case so......"how many times can you hit you head against the wall before it hurts?!!!!" Bu-bye you piece of crap 249J.

I hope these posts have helped others with the same problem.

95Orvis
06-18-2004, 02:09 PM
Even though my transfer case problem has been figured out, I have chosen to replace the 249J for a 242J as it would probably cost the same amount to repair as to replace. I'm getting rid of the pain in the you know where 249J as they are to touchy and malfunction to easily. This is the third major repair on the t-case so......"how many times can you hit you head against the wall before it hurts?!!!!" Bu-bye you piece of crap 249J.

I hope these posts have helped others with the same problem.

Hey Apps,
As I posted earlier in this thread, I had the same problem and spent thousands 3 years ago to have it rebuilt at the dealer. It recently died and I ordered a 242 from "the guy in Long Island". It arrived yesterday at the garage and will be worked on Tuesday. You should seriously consider speaking with George about a new/rebuilt 242. You can contact me directly if you want some additional info on it.

Apps
06-20-2004, 08:48 AM
I too am going to make the swap. I'll post when everything is in place and working to let you know how it all came out.

dksob81
09-09-2004, 01:14 AM
I have a '94 GC with automatic trans., 5.2 liter engine and quadratrac. My transfer case fluid keeps disappearing. There really aren't any signs of leakage around the transfer case. I have noticed some drips coming off of the two transmission fluid lines that are just in front of the transmission pan. Does the transfer case fluid somehow go into the transmission? I really have no idea.

The other item I am wondering about is all of the information out on the internet about what kind (i.e. weight, anti slip, etc.) of lubricant to use in the differentials. The book says one thing however, I have read too many conflicting reports and others suggest using different weight and types. The jeep dealer said to use "247"....whatever that is. What about the transmission fluid?

Any information would be greatly appreciated,






I have the same exact jeep, I am can c some fluid around the front yako of the transfer case, I haven't checked my fluid since I filled it (2 months ago), but I think I should check it again since u bring it up.
can someone please send me a pic of the Vacuum Harness that connects to the EGR Valve, Intake Manifold, Throttle Body, Fuel Pressure Regulator, etc.... and then it connects to another harness which goes to the EVAP Canister (I do not need this harness, just a pic of the half that connects to the Egr Valve, intake Manifold, etc....

Chipr2nite
03-13-2005, 12:52 AM
I have a '95 ZJ V8 with the Quadra-Trac. I have had loved the thing since day 1. The Quadra-Trac does great in the snow in PA and I have a lot of fun with it.

I have been having the same problem with missing fluid from the T-case and from what I have been told it was that the seals were leaking. I could never find any evidence of leaks unless the t-case was hot. so now I have had 2 rear t-case seals replaced and it finally stopped. (I think!) It's been since OCT and it looaks like the problem has been solved.

My ZJ also statred making the h-m-m-m sound and took in to be looked at. I thought it was the t-case since I was missing fluid but it turned out to be bad bearing in the rear diff. Cost me about $650 to get the bearing fixed. The garage told me that the bearing went bad to beace the bolt that holds the seal in the diff was too tight. I juat had that seal replaced too.

Ron68
03-13-2005, 10:17 PM
What is the name of the pump and is this "normal" operation for a transfer case to fluctuate in lubricant levels?

I am afraid to drive the thing today so when I take it to the independent tomorrow, I'll have him check the level. Is there any website I can look at so I can aquaint myself with the transfer case, where the pump might be and how it all works? I like to be educated. Thank you

What model tranfer case do you have? I had an 87 Cherokee that had the drive chain inside stretch to the point that it wore a hole in the case and the fluid drained out. I got a servicable one out of a wrecking yard and while checking to see if the new one had fluid, I cracked the boss that holds the fill plug. I ended up taking apart the two cases and using the good case half from the old one and the good half from the new one to make one good transfer case. The internal oil pump in the transfer case is a simple gerotor type pump built into the (I believe) output shaft. It has a pickup tube and small screen that sits in the bottom of the case. It was clogged with black rubber sealant particles. I have a 97 GC that has the same type of pump pickup which is visible through the drain hole. I was servicing the case and I though I would check it also. It too had the screen partially blocked with the same rubber particles. When I split the case on my old transfer case, I noted that there is no gasket installed. The case is sealed with just sealant, something like I use on intake manifolds such as RTV Ultra Black. If too much sealant is used by the manufacturer to seal the case, some of it can squeeze out internally and eventually the cured sealant can break off and end up in the sump of the case, blocking the pump pickup. I used a wire to pull quite a bit out of the 97 case and it had only about 61K miles on it.
When you put your drain plugs back in - DO NOT overtighten them. As far as where your fluid is going, there just isn't too much inside the case for all that fluid to hide. I should drain down almost immediately, as the pump would starve if it didn't. Good luck, I hope you find the leak.

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