I hope I do not anger because it is not my purpose. Here are facts re my car:
1) The mileage figures are nonsense. If you use the air (90F) and if you do not become a road hazard---you get about 38 mpg.
2) You only get the advertised mileage if you use no air --stay under 60--and accelerate so slowly that the CVT hits its highpoint very early and you are a road hazard.
3) With an 11 gallon tank--aside from fuel cost--your range is not as good as a Lexus with a big tank and a 22mpg cruise.
4) A VW TDI is definitely better if you want good mileage with normal driving.
5) The fuel consumption readout drives one crazy.
6) People with Kerry stickers think you are like them.
Well I own one---but!

[QUOTE=mauleskyrocket]I hope I do not anger because it is not my purpose. Here are facts :
4) A VW TDI is definitely better if you want good mileage with normal driving.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------



Let me tell you why TDI is better :

1) PAH fine particles from Diesel - several independed researches and studies proven it causes cancer.

2) 40% cancer from city related air traffic environment will come from Diesel (cars and factory) (from 2003-next 10 years)

3) Pah particles are almost similar to those of asbestos, after you inhale critical amount of the same, it is only question of time when your lung will develop pathology.

Many earth friendly organizations and as well as independed ones are making effort to warn people of Diesel "power", that is deliberately kept quiet for $$$ reasons.

So yes, your Diesel is "fantastic" choice.

If you have no relatives, friends, family and fell no responsibility as unique individual whose decisions reflect value for this planet no matter how it might feel small, then yes go to your Diesel, save what you only borrow now to keep for future generations : HOME = EARTH

Why not buy SUV & Diesel that is exquisite choice from HELL !
After all, one war or two, who cares, right?

As long we can all drive "big" cars. :(

You definitely have that Kerry sticker fella. Prob love Kennedy too. Your answer is pure nonsense.

You definitely have that Kerry sticker fella. Prob love Kennedy too. Your answer is pure nonsense.


While reading your eloquence presented in your writing I presume you are in elementary school?

If so, I apologize for too many advanced information, you will get to that in high school, very soon.

As for your candidates, I leave them all to you. Every one is best money can buy in politics.

Try to read more and educate your mind, otherwise others will choose for you.

Until that time you will "sticker fella" in ignorance.

As for nonsense, on planet that has only 1.5% drinkable water and countries that are turning their backs on Kyoto protocol, people like you are what every politician can hope for: Sleepy consumer

Just to see how "nonsense" is this :


http://archive.greenpeace.org/climate/smile/tech/17diesel.html


http://www.pirg.org/reports/enviro/dangerousdiesel/


http://childrentoday.com/resources/articles/dieseldanger.htm


http://www.rtpnet.org/~wakelwv/EnvironmentCom.htm

http://www.pirg.org/reports/enviro/dangerousdiesel/Dangers_Of_Diesel.pdf

kind regards,

I posted to talk about my prius and that a TDI was better. You come back with liberal rhetoric from Greenpiece etc. You liberals never miss a chance---talk about cars and you want to talk about the environmrent=====the new home of the pinko left wing. Over and out.

I posted to talk about my prius and that a TDI was better. You come back with liberal rhetoric from Greenpiece etc. You liberals never miss a chance---talk about cars and you want to talk about the environmrent=====the new home of the pinko left wing. Over and out.



You utter Wis entirely.

You are just too sagacious for my wisdom.

Copy paste this text and over the years read the same again.
Maybe you grasp why on earth you failed to understand this point.

Indeed I'm talking about your Prius (soon to purchase the same in Europe) and how exquisite Toyota made the same. Yet you drag about your "inconvenience" with cleanest car on the planet and you would want even better economy.

This dirt Diesel engine you dare to compare with with ingenious Toyota's creation?

You strike me as very cheap driver in land that swims in free Oil,(compared to other countries) and driving is almost free, yet you would like better economy? - ride bicycle then to save even more money!!!

Liberals?, I think you would require supplement in education to understand structure of civil society within politics and to understand that environment has no party !!!!!

It affects everyone !!! , even people like you, who think environment is cliché.

Too much television indoctrination does limit ones vista of higher sphere
then political party or nation.

You think that (provided links) cancer associated from Diesel is a flying comment you can pass over your dinner, maybe you can, until you become the one with the same (I hope not)

The essence of this magnificent car Prius is while every other manufacturer laughed at Toyota strivings to make this happened, and to make proof it is possible to make fantastic little car with performance nothing short of fantastic and yet cleanest commercial vehicle on the planet.

Prius was conceived for people who understand how their vehicle decisions do affect this globe.

You are clearly not the one. You don't even deserve to drive Prius.

Go, buy your Diesel, let someone who is more responsible to this planet drive this car.

http://www.angelfire.com/alt/volken/4Forum/SynergyPriulonne2004.jpg

http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,63413,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1

nuff said!

http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,63413,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1

nuff said!


This only proves that speed addicted reviewers don't feel enough sexy in their test Prius so would like to compensate in critique to gas mileage.

In either way, considering Prius breakthrough in making this engine cleanest commercial engine available only blind man would criticize technology that provides fantastic results and it is even in very early stages of what it will be able to offer in soon to come new version.

This is second Prius and how far it has reached since earliest stage and where it might come in Prius 3.

I could give you 10 time more links proving other points all in favor of Prius, but frankly, you are just not the person who either understand or appreciates the very essence of this pioneering synergy between vehicles and environment.

I'm very sorry to hear you purchased this vehicle, you are poor advocate of this technology and I hope you will never need to advise anyone about the same.

But thing are not that bad,since you are the very first Prius user who is so unconsidered and uninformed of this technology to my attention.

Some of us in Europe have to wait because of fantastic production demand in states.

Which is fantastic, I'm happy to hear folks in states like this car and care for its benefits.

Then again it makes me sick to wait when I hear that person like you is driving the same.

What a waste.

I hope you will sell yours soon.

You sound like a sick puppy! I am sorry and apologize for any of us who own the car that do not meet with your approval. Oh, I wish you were French so bad.

No I'm not the French.

But I feel like one when observing TV propaganda brain washed person such as yourself.

I'm not American either,but feel like one when someone with the same limitations like yours from Europe presents the same lame arguments.

If TV war propaganda can shape and fill someone's absence of understanding history and recent foreign policies in general relation to entire world, then poor is such mind.

Wake up !!!

As someone who has served the USA and if you had a brain you would know how. Go stick it. U.S. policy is the best and keep it up and we will invade you- you sniveling fool.

As someone who has served the USA and if you had a brain you would know how. Go stick it. U.S. policy is the best and keep it up and we will invade you- you sniveling fool.


Necesse est multos timeat, quem multi timent.

Immodicis brevis est aetas et rara senectus.

mauleskyrocket = Inscitia mater arrogantiae.

Tache sumare ton guenetz.(Thats Slovenian---go translate it genius)

Tache sumare ton guenetz.(Thats Slovenian---go translate it genius)


Dear lord.

Hahahaha,...

Yes, lack of understanding Latin does make some people aggressive like you present yours here.

But shape you anger you furnish with even greater vice.

Slovenian language belongs to Slavic family of languages, not even one single word you wrote has any even remotely root in Slovenian language.

This quasi French/Latin combination is reflection of poor mind and nothing else.

Your school system "should" be proud with this extraordinary dilettante mastery gibberish you present to your own shame.

Do you even know where Slovenia is situated?
At least belonging continent ?

Hahaha, Kali Yuga is known name for this period of what we consider linear time.

It means -times of ignorance- when I read summation of your wis, I believe, even with greater aplomb.

Remember , everything you send comes back to you. Universal laws of action and reaction.

Your present thoughts are what shapes you imminent future.

At least make some effort to become a better man, man of free mind, read some book, let it take you where you never walked before. You might surprise yourself, there is so much more out there then just
raw limitations of inactive mind.

I hope you will path away from this sad mentality.

Listen fella---that is from a Slovenian hymn you fool. I still think your French. I would love to be your neighbor. Wow. Who would believe finding you on a car board. I am sure Prius would love you as a spokes(person).

Listen fella---that is from a Slovenian hymn you fool. I still think your French. I would love to be your neighbor. Wow. Who would believe finding you on a car board. I am sure Prius would love you as a spokes(person).


My goodness,

Ignorance combination with complete lack of manners.

I happen to be decently fluent with Slovenian language and I can only laugh how ridiculous is what you are saying.

But I shall not inhale one single word, no more, let this shame,undefended nonsense you wrote stays and reminds others of your educational apprehension.

Words from Slovenian national anthem?

Hahahahahahahaha,

God have mercy on your mind.

I can't wait until someone from Slovenia or fluent with language visit this forum and reads you "insights" on their language.

Well, your mail box wont be empty, that is for sure.

By the way,if you ever wish to read and hear what Slovenian anthem really is :

http://www.thenationalanthems.com/country/slovenia.htm

Honestly, thank you for your participation in this forum, you made me laugh like I havent laugh from a long time, I can't wait to show this to my friends.

I said hymn not anthem. If you are a Windish expert then translate "coxe te qoi". Certianly that is easy. Why don't we stop fighting. The U. S. is for peace. Do you see that I could be unhappy with Prius cars but not dislike you? Where are you from? maybe that is part of our misunderstanding. I am from the southern U.S. I mostly fly airplanes. Fast kinds. What do you do my friend? My new buddy Volken.

I will even take you to Talledega. I know it is 2 mpg but you would enjoy it. Mauleskyrocket is now the friend of Volken. My buddy. Talledega. You can meet Rusty Wallace. You can sing the U.S. National Anthem. You will see some of our troops with the flag. Our President even shows up sometimes. Trust me good old Volken--you are really a good old boy.

I said hymn not anthem. If you are a Windish expert then translate "coxe te qoi". Certianly that is easy. Why don't we stop fighting. The U. S. is for peace. Do you see that I could be unhappy with Prius cars but not dislike you? Where are you from? maybe that is part of our misunderstanding. I am from the southern U.S. I mostly fly airplanes. Fast kinds. What do you do my friend? My new buddy Volken.


Well it can be kindergarten duck lullaby, but still nothing to do with Slovenia.

Hahahahaha,

Peace.

I will even take you to Talledega. I know it is 2 mpg but you would enjoy it. Mauleskyrocket is now the friend of Volken. My buddy. Talledega. You can meet Rusty Wallace. You can sing the U.S. National Anthem. You will see some of our troops with the flag. Our President even shows up sometimes. Trust me good old Volken--you are really a good old boy.


Much obliged mauleskyrocket,

San Francisco and New England,...my nr.1 spot in states, but will
do, yes sir, Fly me to the moon when I visit you soon :)

Night.

Talledega baby. Come on loosen up. The wall is down. Very nice ladies at Talledega! I think they will like you. I will introduce you! I am your new friend. There is a nightspot we can go to with the ladies nearby. Ok? My buddy. Cool Volken.

mauleskyrocket don't seem to be very open minded...

oh ! I'm French (aïe, I'll take some things in my face ! :D)

mauleskyrocket don't seem to be very open minded...

oh ! I'm French (aïe, I'll take some things in my face ! :D)


Enfin mon ami Stefanel :)
Tous amis.


All friends now ;-)

I hope I do not anger because it is not my purpose. Here are facts re my car:
1) The mileage figures are nonsense. If you use the air (90F) and if you do not become a road hazard---you get about 38 mpg.
2) You only get the advertised mileage if you use no air --stay under 60--and accelerate so slowly that the CVT hits its highpoint very early and you are a road hazard.
3) With an 11 gallon tank--aside from fuel cost--your range is not as good as a Lexus with a big tank and a 22mpg cruise.
4) A VW TDI is definitely better if you want good mileage with normal driving.
5) The fuel consumption readout drives one crazy.
6) People with Kerry stickers think you are like them.
Well I own one---but!

Not all Prius have the same mpg as you. Just go check http://john1701a.com/ and compare your gas economy with his. Also there is www.greenhybrid.com <--where people who drive prius DO use the air conditioning and still achieve over 50 mpg. And you are right, the mileage figures are nonsense because they are outdates. However, people are still achieving over 50 mpg and anything around 40 is still REALLY GOOD gas economy! Your range might be limited not because of an 11 tank capacity, but because of the bladder in the tank that causes confusion. Also, isn't the TDI slower than the Prius? I think I read that somewhere. The fuel consumption readout doesn't seem that confusing either. It's a simple graph showing 2 figures: Amount of energy used, and amount of energy that was regenerated. That's all, and it's not that hard to decipher.

haha and for the kerry thing.. i dont know. maybe its because we environmentalists don't like the whole drilling in alaska for oil deal.

Have you tried comparing your Prius' conditions with other Prius?
such as temperature, TIRE PRESSURE (which should be above 40 to get better mpg), ENGINE OIL (which should ONLY be 4 L or else you will lose mpg there), etc.?

If you could list all those statistics, it would help determine why you are losing performance and mpg. 38 mpg does not seem normal AT ALL compared to most everyone else's figures. Someone who was driving under your condition #2, where he was under 60 mph most of the time... achieved over 70 mpg for his tanks.

I also owned the Insight and found it similar. The fundamental difference is that the TDI underestimates its mpg sticker under NORMAL driving (meaning not worrying re an eggshell accelerator) while the Insight/Prius way overestimate the mpg UNLESS one drives so oriented to mileage that, at least for me driving is no longer enjoyable. I site a reference earlier which is undeniable. The rating systems for mpg are simply not accurate for these hybrid cars.
As far as the environmental thing---that is tongue in cheek PARTLY. I think all that effort would be far better oriented by both parties toward using tax abatements to encourage better mpg from all cars. The fact is the Europeans are smarter on these issues. The same car that in the U.S. has a 3.5 liter engine can be bougth in Europe with a 2 liter engine and far better economy. That is the frame of mind we have to get into. I think Volken would also agree with this.

I found in my experience with my own car that when i try to drive in order to save gas i just end up losing more gas :-\

That is the frame of mind we have to get into. I think Volken would also agree with this.

Let me extend this in simple observation before I comment state in Europe.

There is an old sage proverb since ancient times of philosophy : Government you have is government you deserve.

This is the essence to understand evolutionary merits
of certain society development in relation to the world they live and responsibility for the same.

Just for the moment consider that we are UFO visiting the earth and would like to see how advanced is this Earth civilization. First we observe were is the peak of the power and reflection of all associated elements of this power and how wise is the same employed. Does it benefit humanity or shaping uncertain environment for future generations?

We look at US, we do not look at nation, we do not look at fates,we do not look at colors for this is all nonsense to value something of more essence.

US is reflection not of Americans but entire world, it shows how does a country behaves when in possession of absolute power. Results are very sad indeed.

You all see present news and you will see more in near future considering shameful actions in relation to environment. There is no national program to lead to more reasonable behave with energy resources, to use less meat, Only half of the US meat import from poorest countries could feed rest of the third world.

They say there is no food. There was always enough food for entire humanity, it is lack of honest distribution that is always lacking.

You will tomorrow eat your hamburger (I hope not for you health) and you will probably watch TV, you will accidentally switch to same coverage of hunger dying people in Africa, thinking why are they so unfortunate not knowing, that it is you who have taken their bite
with your deadly meal. There are plantations with soldiers in Africa, protected only for cows, the same travel to you, for your meal!

Take India, 3hd exporter of rice in the world and they have their own shortage to feed too many people.Food chains and pharmaceutical ones are destroying tons of food and medications just for economical reasons,better position.

So we as UFO we ask ourselves how is this possible that poorest countries are feeding those who are wealthy? Simple, politic and power,and absolute power.

There is also another sage proverb that is reflecting state in US that many US folks understand every day more and more : ABSOLUTE POWER IS ABSOLUTE CORRUPTION.

Those of you US folks who are reading this and think, look how he is criticizing our country,you couldn't be more wrong. It is not US that I criticize it is world as we know that I criticize.

US is just reflection how people behave when there is evolutionary gap between technology and spirituality. US spends largest astronomical amounts for military when have their own social problems and issues (like any other country) in the world that has only one superpower.

Take a pilot, take a single plane. If pilot doesn't fly over a certain period of time, he must pass all verifications again.

If airplane doesn't fly for exact period of time, same airplane is not allowed for safety to do so until all necessary safety and service routines are checked and verified. Another proverb : Most expensive airplane is one that is not flying. Try to observe this from higher scene, from military one.

Every year, more hundreds of billions of $,..more airplanes, tanks and so on.

How can they afford this if they never employ situation to use this , this is the essence of "modern" wars :
Invent one !

My point : This is not America, this is present evolutionary reflection of humankind.

Give any county no matter how small the same power and funds, give them just a little bit of time and they will behave just the same.

It is the power , absolute power that makes all the difference in responsibility, in today's world.

Absolute power today means (politics,diplomacy,environment) ZERO responsibility today.

From this perspective, choosing the political candidate in the system that generates private interests of small group of people is nothing but charade. Choosing your candidate is nothing but venture shaping your state of mind, that you can actually choose, when in reality, everything is already chosen for you.

From this vista of present reality, as long as the people have narrow perspective and knowledge of the most delicate and important issues of life, culture, environment and politics, they will create such leaders,
leaders you see today. Sad echoes of evolution.

So when you understand this, then you know environment has no party because it a common essence that surround interest of all people equally.

As for Kerry, he is already chosen to be next man to lead (where?) your country.

He is from what I hear Monsanto player. (Multinational company, nr.1 enemy of the environment)

Same company that is funding present junior

I even hear from US friend who coincidentally is private detective, Kerry and Bush are distant relatives.

So environment is only political phrase, a magnet if you will for those that really care for the same.

As for relation to Europe's state of energy?

What worries me is aggressive campaigns to sell more diesel (politics) in Europe as it is.

Both Alfa Romeo (JTS), VW (FSI) and Audi (FSI) already proven with new Benz engines it is possible to make equally saving engines like diesel, but with generation cleaner and environment friendlier ones.

But this is not commercialized, only those who understand this will buy this engine.

Rest of them will watch and be attracted with aggressive Diesel commercials, all because group of people decided to make more money. So same sad story. After all, why would anyone need to know exact facts about environment when their governments should make that for them, right?

Well, in our present world sadly, governments are just a different name for companies.

So I say, lets be all happy Toyota made this Prius, drive it be informative to potential future customers.

Other brands will have to make theirs as well.

Even the greatest changes come from a small paths, small or big steps, they all count.

Consider this and be happy while you drive your freshly washed Prius on the sunny road curving into green bliss, and life is a pure undistorted joy.

Volken baby, I didn't know your a deep stream. Can you at least tell us what country you live in so that we have some context? You said it is not France and I sure hope not Canada. Anyway this is your friend Mauleskyrocket.

Volken baby, I didn't know your a deep stream. Can you at least tell us what country you live in so that we have some context? You said it is not France and I sure hope not Canada. Anyway this is your friend Mauleskyrocket.

Spam away from me such details I send to PM to thy :)

You intrigued me when you said you previously owned Insight.

I always considered this design very chic and very stylish in decent modern way.

Only reason that kept me away was battery management (not advanced as with Prius) and being a two seater. Very sexy two seater indeed, but I declined.

What made you decide to sell yours?

Another thing that I love with Insight (yes I know to most of you folks this is irrelevant) is manual gear !

Yes I will do things for cleaner globe, but I don't have to pretend I would like to have manual gear inside Prius.

I always feel with automatic as if my hands are tied.

This manual habit is so strong that even on Alfa Romeo selespeed and Audi models, they change gears directly via buttons on wheel, this be all fine, it offers attractive dynamic and very communicative drive.

Still, on any given day, rain or shine manual gear will do for me just fine. :)

Volken. You avoid where you are from.
Re the Insight, it had a very hard ride and the shifting had to be very rapid to a high gear to get good mileage. I live in a hilly are and this resulted in me frequently being a brick in the road. If I drove normally the mpg was not as good as a TDI. If I ran the AC the mpg dropped drastically The tires and suspension were very hard riding.
Now pari pasu with this I owned TDI's. They could be driven normally with air and gave better mpg. I became very unhappy with the attitude of VWNA re their cars and it has become bad enough that I have sold them.
I believe a low sulphur diesel is the answer--with a small engine.The Hybrids must be put in prospective re their true mileage and their really boring driving requirements to obtain good mileage.

Nah, Low sulphur diesel hybrid. DUH

Volken. You avoid where you are from.
Re the Insight,


Not at all, you should read your private messages more often :)


TDI has high torque, yes, but price is high, (environment)

But you have now with your Prius more torque then I had on my late Audi A6 (V6)

You can read my horror true story of this Audi here : http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=175986


Sad to hear about your Insight, I always liked this design.

How good was the quality of interior?

How good compared to Prius?

So have you lost too much of Insight's value, since you sold the same so soon?

Nah, Low sulphur diesel hybrid. DUH


you said it. one post less for me :)

I don't know about all this French hymn stuff, but I have had my 2004 Prius for 5 months and have filled the tank about 6 times. I leave the lights and a/c on (this is New Orleans and it is nearly always hot) and I get 36-39 mpg per tank of gas.

If I drove like a lol (little old lady) maybe I would get higher mpg for a tank, but I don't want to die of old age while going to work. Nearly all my driving is stop and go, which defeats the higher mpg cruising ability of the car.

I don't know about all this French hymn stuff, but I have had my 2004 Prius for 5 months and have filled the tank about 6 times. I leave the lights and a/c on (this is New Orleans and it is nearly always hot) and I get 36-39 mpg per tank of gas.

If I drove like a lol (little old lady) maybe I would get higher mpg for a tank, but I don't want to die of old age while going to work. Nearly all my driving is stop and go, which defeats the higher mpg cruising ability of the car.

So is it safe to assume you like the car, all considered?

mauleskyrocket (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/member.php?u=129031) , waiting for your reply. :)

All these posts plus the Gov. admission (see my ref) simply underscore that the Prius is grossly overstated relative to it's true mpg. The TDI wins the mpg hands down. Many other cars come near it. So it ultimately is a political call. If a person feels they are saving the planet then I think they should drive one. If not, it is a poor choice. Volken, where are you from?

So is it safe to assume you like the car, all considered?

Absolutely. The coolest thing is the Bluetooth phone feature. I tell my friends that basically the Prius is a computer with wheels attached.

All these posts plus the Gov. admission (see my ref) simply underscore that the Prius is grossly overstated relative to it's true mpg. The TDI wins the mpg hands down. Many other cars come near it. So it ultimately is a political call. If a person feels they are saving the planet then I think they should drive one. If not, it is a poor choice. Volken, where are you from?

Dear god,...mauleskyrocket,

Please could you finally go to your private messages, there is reply waiting for you since last week !!!

I have just seen new Volkswagen Lupo 1.4FSI (105PS) almost 1.5 litter
more economical then Prius !!!!

This is better performance then any Diesel as well.

Same engine is inside new Audi A2 also.

FSI is future of Benz engines proving there is way to be economical
like Diesel, but without Diesel dirt.

Absolutely. The coolest thing is the Bluetooth phone feature. I tell my friends that basically the Prius is a computer with wheels attached.

I'm really glad to hear you like your Prius.

So do I hear praise of might be Prius 3 owner as well? :)

Sorry, but what's a Prius 3?

a third generation prius. aka new design, 2007

a third generation prius. aka new design, 2007

Exactement. :)


I have posted this some time ago.

But I have again heard from very concrete Toyota source, they are toying with idea to make Prius also available in some combination of latest or to come Cellica body.

They would like to appeal in sportier segment as well.

But when?..?

http://tomy.myphotos.cc/albums/funnypics/greenpeace.jpg


dIESEl :(

you guys ever hear of biodiesel? people are doing wonderful things with vegetable oil combined with diesel. and it's either free or very close. not sure of tailpipe emissions, though

you guys ever hear of biodiesel? people are doing wonderful things with vegetable oil combined with diesel. and it's either free or very close. not sure of tailpipe emissions, though


Unfortunately this is just a sand in public eyes.

They started first using and promoting this in Austria.

Yes, there is potential in this,?but ultimately it is not earth friendly from final perspective.

If everyone would keep their oil from cooking and then collect this in dedicated reservoirs and then fill this in their cars then partly this thing would work. But this ended sooner then people even considered
(some do collect oil and save but this is small percentage) doing this.

So now they are making and planing special plantations for seeds dedicated for this bio oil,

In the world that is deliberately destroying food, this is complete nonsense and makes no difference in ecology at all. So Fuel Cell?Hydrogen,CNG,Hybrid,are way to path.

There is also "compressed air" technology, completely ready for use, but industry have actually purchased the same just to be able to delete it for next 20 years. Sad world indeed, where Oil is worth the blood.

I heard that Toyota will make their next Supra a Hybrid! Hopefully the HP numbers will be like the previous Supras.

To date compressed air technology has been a failure. Simply put the connection between temperature and molecularpressure is an immense problem. There is no doubt that the ultimate answer for now is low sulphur diesel fuel used with very economical diesel engines. Vw has gone the wrong direction with this and their common rail diesels get lower mileage than the older models. The Hybrid movement will stall after Bush is elected because it is more of a political statement in this country for Kerry. The fact that their (the hubrid) real mileage is so much lower than the advertized mileage has doomed the Hybrid.

To date compressed air technology has been a failure. Simply put the connection between temperature and molecularpressure is an immense problem. There is no doubt that the ultimate answer for now is low sulphur diesel fuel used with very economical diesel engines. Vw has gone the wrong direction with this and their common rail diesels get lower mileage than the older models. The Hybrid movement will stall after Bush is elected because it is more of a political statement in this country for Kerry. The fact that their (the hubrid) real mileage is so much lower than the advertized mileage has doomed the Hybrid.


Oh, this compressed air, made by Swiss engineer is working and is bulletproof.

In fact they are selling for small markets as engines for agriculture, all tested and ultra reliable.

Car Industry, however all share interest in sale cake, and this is way they can't afford this technology.

It would upset present money making system.

Diesel is only future for increase of more lung cancer associated symptoms.

FSI, and alike direct Petrol direct injection are present future.

Hybrids are fine but when looking from point of energy, they are still in the same basket of regular cars because their power is still created from petrol.

In perfect world, by energy of wind made power then distributed to Prius would make Hybrids truly oil independed

For now this is the future : http://vwvortex.rely.net/artman/uploads/077__scaled_600.jpg

Bush will never again be elected because what his daddy promised to him, same Monsanto promised to Kerry, you are our man. You can quote me on that, and remember when you go back to these lines when Kerry is next man to swim like Bush in pool of corporate interest. This is allready decided,votes are but the game for masses.

Volken. Stop it. Of the following, you can be sure. The Prius is not what is advertized. The U.S. is the greatest country on the planet. The U.S. military is the best on the planet and God Bless all of them. Compressed air is not the answer. The Prius is not the answer. Kerry and pinkos are not the answer. All this should be self evident to an intelligent person like you. Why not start a poll and see if others agree.

Yes, the US is the greatest country in the planet, the rest of the world is living in a dump. Oh, and nor the Prius nor compressed air is the answer. Diesel is the answer !!

Volken. Stop it. Of the following, you can be sure. The Prius is not what is advertized. The U.S. is the greatest country on the planet. The U.S. military is the best on the planet and God Bless all of them. Compressed air is not the answer. The Prius is not the answer. Kerry and pinkos are not the answer. All this should be self evident to an intelligent person like you. Why not start a poll and see if others agree.


Well, you try to present your own thoughts about Bush as whole US.

I don't think so.

Even with Gore it was 50/50 votes and with votes scam daddy secured votes to his Junior.

As for size, I consider myself citizen of the world, never cared about limitless observations of nations, nationality and so on. This is all tribal vocabulary of limitations humanity presently reside.

I don't have any friend in states that supports your man and rest of the world is appalled with present reputation of this great country, and all thanks to this man, your man.

You polls show lower support then ever for his actions.

So please, if you have your own reasons and agendas to love him do so, but please don't lose objectiveness to presence and present your own feelings as feelings of entire US.

None of the candidates are good choice because they are all chosen by companies and lobbies.

Kerry is no better, after all he is relative to Bush. So I couldn't care less who would be the one.

But Kerry is chosen, I look forward to see your responses when he is elected, but I gather you will avoid then to reply to message about this topic, that is for sure !

Mauleskyrocket, you should try to expand your horizons by traveling more and perhaps learn one language, then you will understand that whenever in history a country starts talking : "Entire world is against us" - Problems lays inside that country.

Yes, the US is the greatest country in the planet, the rest of the world is living in a dump. Oh, and nor the Prius nor compressed air is the answer. Diesel is the answer !!

Auto_newb,

Your writing abilities are too advanced for me.

"In the planet" ????

Yes, grammar can be tricky when in state of arrogance. :)

Perch.

Perch.

Where exactly, or perhaps another comment of supremacy?

Hey I was being sarcastic, you know what I meant!

Hey I was being sarcastic, you know what I meant!

Well pardon my comment then.

To some people TV is only source of shaping their knowledge about world we live, sadly.

Your comment reflected (then) such person.

I'm glad I was wrong. :)

Have a happy fourth everyone. You too Volken.

Have a happy fourth everyone. You too Volken.


Same to you Mauleskyrocket :)

OK, owners of Prius vehicles out there known and unknown here.
Actual drivers, owners that do actually own and drive this car.

Could someone clarify autonomy of Prius based not on raw petrol consumption but also how much does electro-motor benefits overall savings in mileage?

For example, I hear you can drive up to 25-30 km/h speed on electro motor engine, but for how long?

What is the longest period you could (with moderation) drive on electro-engine, before petrol would switch in charge?

Also Mauleskyrocket, we would like to see a few pictures of your baby Prius.

If you check my original posts, I had a 2004 with the #9 package. I was so disappointed in the mileage/performance that I sold it back to the dealer. I now drive a SAAB and get lessmileage but not that much less when considering how good a car it is to drive. I am not against a Prius. I just think it is advertised falsely and bought too politically.

Oh man... how much did you sell it for? I could have bought it if you lived close to me: St. Louis

If you check my original posts, I had a 2004 with the #9 package. I was so disappointed in the mileage/performance that I sold it back to the dealer. I now drive a SAAB and get lessmileage but not that much less when considering how good a car it is to drive. I am not against a Prius. I just think it is advertised falsely and bought too politically.



I must say you are one strange bird, mauleskyrocket

Contradictive to say least.

You never stop to amaze me.

First considering your radical right wing observations, I was surprised you would choose to drive Prius at all. But you do. OK, it didn't perform as promised, that's fine also.

But now, Saab ????

Another liberal choice in cars to say as liberal as it can get in cars.

Particularity considering its origin country.

OK, is your real name Hyde, Mr.Hide? :)

That would be only sufficient scientific explanation to this contradictive paradox of your choices ;)

Is it good old (last true Saab) divine Hatch 9-3 or 9-3 New Sport Sedan?

http://www.kjenkins49.fsnet.co.uk/jek13.jpg

Old style convertible that Kurt Wallander might drive.

Old style convertible that Kurt Wallander might drive.

Yes but what model.

Early 900?

Kurt Wallander 900.

Should have sold the prius to meeee >_<

Should have sold the prius to meeee >_<

Provided he actually owned one :)

He never sent us any requested picture of his Prius.

Not to mention, my concrete question about what 900 is he driving is
also left in silence. Owner of 900 Hatch should know what vintage is
his 900. (Saab is very concrete about models, after all)

Someone who fly airplane, should know more about company that makes both.

Volken my distrustful friend. If you know SAABs' then you certainly should know what a Kurt Wallander model 900 convertible looks like! Volken, maybe your the one who needs the high top shoes.

Volken my distrustful friend. If you know SAABs' then you certainly should know what a Kurt Wallander model 900 convertible looks like! Volken, maybe your the one who needs the high top shoes.


Mauleskyrocket,

Apparently there was a problem with HTML code because my smile :)was not posted before first comment and this is what gave you wrong impression about nature of my comment.

Funny, entire post misunderstood just in mercy of invisible smile J

Silver or Brownish color of your Saab?

Strangely I'm not familiar with this phrase : high top shoes

What does it mean?

What does Kurt Wallander mean?

I had to take a long auto trip this weekend. About six hundred miles all by motorway. Interstingly, and fitting my first post here, of the many Prius's I saw on the motorway, ALL were driving in the slow lane. In my mind this evidenced that they were aware that stressing the car in the least by accelerating was going to adversely affect their economy. Of course with my Kurt Wallander SAAB I just left them in my dust.

What does Kurt Wallander mean?

I think some sort of fiction character, detective of some sort?

Actor that plays some detective?


Do you at least know production year of your 900?

1979-1980 4 Cyl. post models or Turbo?

Later models of 900?

What generation of 900 do you actually own?

Concrete please.

The SAAB is a 9/3 cvtbl. I am proud of you solving the little riddle Volken. Indeed Kurt Wallander is the detective in a series of excellent books by Swedish author Henning Mankell. Mankell lives in Sweden and Mozambique and is one of the great current authors. Wallender, of course, drives a Peugot and therefore sort of screws up the riddle a bit.

The SAAB is a 9/3 cvtbl. I am proud of you solving the little riddle Volken. Indeed Kurt Wallander is the detective in a series of excellent books by Swedish author Henning Mankell. Mankell lives in Sweden and Mozambique and is one of the great current authors. Wallender, of course, drives a Peugot and therefore sort of screws up the riddle a bit.

So now it is no longer 900 as you said earlier, but 9-3 convertible?
What engine?

Is it last production 9-3 hatch?

last production 9-3 cnvt. I have had many and prefer this old model to the new. The new has a GM engine and basically a GM driveline. Probably a great car but I like the old SAABs.

last production 9-3 cnvt. I have had many and prefer this old model to the new. The new has a GM engine and basically a GM driveline. Probably a great car but I like the old SAABs.


You should read more details about latest Saab before making these comments, because they are all wrong. Saab is main dedicated plant for all Turbo engines within GM. It is 100% all made by Saab !

This is strategic decision brought by GM for second year by now.

New drive platform is called Epsilon and it is combined GM/Saab/Opel research.

Although to me old 900 and 9-3 hatch models are timeless expression of timeless classic expression and look more original to more confection new sedan look,...there is no getting away that latest 9-3 Sport Sedan is far more advanced particularly with drive-train then old 9-3.

After all, quirky old 9-3 drive was reason why this model divided entire world press in two sides : One hated its guts, other loved the same

You should look at Saab forum, beacuse this is well covered.

Agree that new epsilon better but the old one is what I like--I even like the cowl shake!

Agree that new epsilon better but the old one is what I like--I even like the cowl shake!


Fine. No more OT.

This is Prius forum after all :)

Mauleskyrocket, could you at least post some pictures of your Prius?

I would really like to see the same, it was after all car that was driving you well.

I hope I do not anger because it is not my purpose. Here are facts re my car:
1) The mileage figures are nonsense. If you use the air (90F) and if you do not become a road hazard---you get about 38 mpg.
2) You only get the advertised mileage if you use no air --stay under 60--and accelerate so slowly that the CVT hits its highpoint very early and you are a road hazard.
3) With an 11 gallon tank--aside from fuel cost--your range is not as good as a Lexus with a big tank and a 22mpg cruise.
4) A VW TDI is definitely better if you want good mileage with normal driving.
5) The fuel consumption readout drives one crazy.
6) People with Kerry stickers think you are like them.
Well I own one---but!

I hope I do not anger because it is not my purpose. Here are facts re my car:



Any particular reason for re-posting again something you wrote long ago?

Please read again my last post and respond in rational sense with applied and appropriate reply.

Thanks.

I posted it because it is true. The car is falsely advertized re mpg. Potential buyers should know that. As to your agenda who knows---and who cares.

No, what you posted isn't true. Firstly, even though I repeatedly asked what your tire pressure/engine oil level was you've failed to list what they were. They will *note dramatically! change the output of your mpg. MANY MANY people have been getting EPA values and if you look on the site www.greenhybrid.com you can see that the average for the 2nd generation Prius is over 48 mpg. And definately NO you don't have to accelerate increadibly slow and turn off the A/C. Jason, the site owner averaged 47.2 mpg and i know for a fact that he uses air conditioning. krousb has even gotten more than 80 mpg and over 900 miles on ONE WHOLE TANK. So don't just assume that your ONE Prius, which you probably did not set the tire pressure/oil level to the right values, represents the whole of all Prius. Plus, the car does not "advertise" the mpg as a representation for all drivers. They clearly state that it was achieved with EPA's standards and that owner's MPG will vary. During their(EPA) tests, the Prius' engine was off half the time. You also don't tell us what climate you live in and what kind of terrain you have to commute through. Obviously if you live in mountainous or hilly areas, your MPG will decrease. But this is true for ANY car! Most people get 48 mpg. And although that might not be the same value as the EPA's value, that's still a considerable amount! PLUS!!! what car have you known to actually GET an average that is the actual EPA number? Hardly any cars will do that. And a VW TDI? They set off tons more NOx and SO2 and you wont be achieving great MPG if you do stop and go driving AT ALL since diesel works better the other way. Plus you only get 90 HP from a Jetta TDI and 125 lbs of torque. Way much slower than a Prius IF you ever EVER needed that much power. It seems to me that you purchased the Prius without doing much research on your part...if you actually DID purchase one.

Sorry. Your wrong. Prius is the cause of EPA starting a program to change their testing. See WSJ. The Prius does not get anywhere near the advertised (yes advertised) mileage in real driving. But then driving one is a Kerry thing!

It's clear that you did not take the time to actually read my last post. An average of 71 people on www.greenhybrid.com who own the 2004 Prius equals over 48 mpg. Just because you achieved sub 40 mpg doesnt mean the Prius does not get anywhere near the advertised mileage in real driving. I will say this once more. YOUR PRIUS DOES NOT REPRESENT ALL PRIUS. Especially, ESPECIALLY, since you neglected to check the tire pressure and engine oil level. It seems to me that you will say anything to defame the Prius because of your negligence to actually achieve mpg.

comprendez vous? The EPA is REDOING it's system because of the inaccurate window sticker on a Prius. My SAAB says 32 on highway but gets 34! I am not knocking the Prius. But after owning one, I still maintain it is deceptively advertised. My TDI VW did just as well---with more power and running air and going 80 etc. I mean it when I say Kerry types buy this car under a misguided impression that they are saving the planet. That is their freedom and I applaud their motive. Just don't tell me what a great car it is. As for a bunch of owners claiming high mileage---ya and I bet their wives look like Frederique Van Der Wall as well.

I KNOW the EPA is REDOING their system. BUT that doesnt mean people ARE NOT achieving EPA values. Do you even see advertisements of Prius? They're not on TV! And the WINDOW STICKER? That's just required by the EPA to put it on the Prius. IT ALWAYS SAYS YOUR MILEAGE WILL VARY. It is NOT deceptively advertised because they plainly tell you that you most likely wont get 55 mpg. It is also NOT a misguided impression that they are saving the planet. I have a great article in Newsweek that fully describes the problem. As for owner claiming high mileage? They take both the on board MPG and they ALSO calculate the MPG when they fill up. THEN they choose the LOWEST one. You maintain that the Prius is deceptively advertised even though you didn't take precautions to ever get good fuel economy. TOO MUCH ENGINE OIL WILL DECREASE THE PRIUS'S MPG CONSIDERABLY. If your tires arent inflated to a certain level either, you'll lose even more mpg. In essence you could have been getting 45+ mpg if you actually researched a little bit more. The dealer is incorrect most of the time and doesnt fill the engine right or inflate the tires correctly.

By the way.. I want to make an edit on page two. I meant 3.9 L

We can agree on one point. Most dealers know nothing. I did keep my tire inflation on the high side. My prior car had been a TDI and that got 50 mpg on the highway with no fuss or mental bother as to ho I drove. The Prius not only gies far less mileage than promoted but also is a lousy driving experience. Unless, as I said, your motive is to fit in with the Kerry boys. I am curious re oil---are you suggesting one keep the oil lower than the indicated "full" on the stick?

I have participated on countless forums to discuss hybrids over the past four years. Today, I joined another... this one.

With over 80,000 miles of Prius driving experience in the hostile climate of Minnesota under all imaginable driving & traffic conditions, I have an overwhelming amount of data supporting my endorsement in the full hybrid design Toyota has created (called "HSD").

MPG claims are mostly attempts to mislead. Simply make the person present the actual data in detail. That always clarifies the issue. In the cases where traditional cars are reported to achieve impressive efficiency, you will often find that the data is highway-only in nature. So what they are telling you is true; however, they don't tell you that MPG is considerably lower when they slow down. City & Suburb driving is typically quite disappointing for those same vehicles. That is not the case with a hybrid using HSD, where MPG climbs when you slow down.

EMISSIONS are almost always totally ignored in traditional verses hybrid debates. There simply is no contest. A hybrid that delivers both great efficiency and great emissions is what the anti-hybrid people fear most, and that's exactly what the HSD system does. Prius, for example, delivers a real-world mixed-driving average of about 49 MPG and an emission rating of AT-PZEV. Just say, "Show Me The Data!" The traditional vehicles just plain cannot compete with that, especially if it uses diesel.

TRANSMISSION is another argument problem. Those against hybrids often use data from manual transmission vehicles, which is highly deceptive. Since 90 percent of the market in the United States prefers a transmission that doesn't require shifting, forcing them to switch to one that does require it is just plain wrong. But they know quite well that automatic transmissions don't get anywhere near as good MPG. Fortunately, the full hybrids use a CVT, which doesn't require shifting yet it delivers even better efficiency.

COMPLEXITY is another point which carries no meaning. A full hybrid eliminates many components found in a traditional vehicle. To further simplify the design, the transmission is always engaged, no changing of contact surfaces ever. As yet another benefit, the motors are brushless, so no replacement is ever needed.

BATTERY life is quickly becoming something those wanting hybrids to fail a topic to avoid. Real-World data is beginning to confirm the lab test results. It shows that capacity is diminished somewhere between 150,000 and 200,000 miles. After that, you take a MPG hit since capacity is reduced. That's it! Acceleration isn't even affected, because there's more than enough capacity still remaining for that and most of the time a full hybrid doesn't even use the battery-pack when accelerating anyway (the electricity is generated on-the-fly by the engine instead) Anywho, Toyota is now providing a 180,000 mile quote whenever people ask about battery-pack expectations.

PRICE is key to many discussions. What isn't is the fact that neither mass-production nor third-party supplier has begun. Without that, real comparisons cannot be made fairly. Production costs will obviously drop once that begins; it is a well documented fact in economics... especially in the automotive industry. So always look at the long-term outcome, not what is happening at the current moment.

OTHER factors that affect efficiency are commonly not addressed at all. Tire-Pressure makes a huge difference; soft tires hurt efficiency. Another factor is overfill of engine oil, too much causes an internal hindrance. Still another is the reality that winter-formula fuel holds less energy, so MPG will naturally be less. Yet another is that cold are is more dense, which causes greater resistance. And of course, break-in is often forgotten; a new vehicle will always report lower MPG than one that has a minimum of 10,000 miles on it.

In summary, I don't fall for the message posts that don't acknowledge all of the criteria I just mentioned. Because if they don't, they are not being objective.

JOHN
http://john1701a.com

Good information. But it skirts the issue of the Hybrid's real world mpg vs say a Golf TDI. My Prius was incredible affected by air con, hills, high speed freeways (you will always see Prius in the "slow" lane), people on board, havy, heavy, heavy traffic. Also, my local dealer has a fair number in for repairs. Also parking attendants don't know how to drive them. I am not being partisan when I say that I believe a high % of buyers think they are "in" liberals by driving one---their sole rationality in a world in which they feel inferior. Give me the TDI anytime. Let Streisand drive one!

vs say a Golf TDI.

Besides the Golf TDI being quite a bit smaller and dramatically dirtier, its real-world MPG isn't all that impressive.

SHOW ME THE DATA!

I just plain do not believe claims that generically state it is better than a hybrid like Prius. Let's actully see detail that proves an automatic TDI in mixed driving can produce real-world MPG comparable to HSD. Checking the TDI owner's club, I haven't been able to find any.

I have owned a standard and an automatic TDI. They are close enough to the Prius that all the care needed to get thePrius mileage simply is not worth it.

Why should we believe that claim?

In any other venue, actual proof is needed.

JOHN
http://john1701a.com

Vague comments (like "close enough" and "all the care") are of no use either.

Show me the data.

JOHN
http://john1701a.com

Tou can't take hearing the data!

After 4 years of discussions like this, there is absolutely nothing new you can reveal. The best of the diesel supporters have already presented everything they had at their disposal to no avail.

JOHN
http://john1701a.com

krousb got 84.7 mpg for over 900 miles on the highway. That's 34.7 MORE MPG than the EPA's claim.

You forgot something. It's ridiculous as well!

it IS ridiculously high. But it IS TRUE.

What is wrong with you?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/flareak/Prius/85.jpg

good game. what is wrong with YOU?

85.7 MPG over 967 miles from a single tank of gas without filling.

That is not only absurd but unfair to post here, so that those contemplating buying one (they are good cars), think they will get anywhere near that mileage. You are a Kerryite. They will get in normal driving about 38-40 mpg., if they use air and do mixed driving. Can't you guys face it. I had to buy one to learn you were dreaming!

You're wrong. plenty of people get 48 mpg in normal driving. Where are you getting your data from? Your own Prius.. in which you were not careful enough to make sure you would not be waste gas because of different circumstances? THAT IS WHAT IS UNFAIR. The proof is right there for you. The Prius CAN get above EPA ratings and the average is 48 mpg for NORMAL DRIVERS. Why is that absurd?

The average is now 49 MPG (from greenhybrid.com)

Ah. Aaaaah. AAAACHOOOO!
http://greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/
*sniff*

Only 1 driver out of 73 fails to average over 40 MPG.

Guys, the mileage you quote is NOT the mileage promoted on the car. 60 is not 48! My TDI could get mileage in your league and it was WAY OVER the promoted mileage. Stop dreaming.

I hope I do not anger because it is not my purpose. Here are facts re my car:
1) The mileage figures are nonsense. If you use the air (90F) and if you do not become a road hazard---you get about 38 mpg.
2) You only get the advertised mileage if you use no air --stay under 60--and accelerate so slowly that the CVT hits its highpoint very early and you are a road hazard.
3) With an 11 gallon tank--aside from fuel cost--your range is not as good as a Lexus with a big tank and a 22mpg cruise.
4) A VW TDI is definitely better if you want good mileage with normal driving.
5) The fuel consumption readout drives one crazy.
6) People with Kerry stickers think you are like them.
Well I own one---but!

I have to recommend that you take your Prius back to the dealership and have it looked at. Here's what my wife's Prius gets on her 132 mile round trip commute, in vehicle temp set at 75 degrees (air comes on when necessary): 51.7 mpg. Her commute consists of approximately 30 miles I-95 at 65-70 mph, and 36 miles of 4-lane parkway at approx. 45 mph until the last 5-7 miles, then it's rush-hour stop and go. (Washington DC area). She uses a tank of gas a week...not too shabby, I'd say.

Don't have any Kerry sticker, you couldn't pay me enough to put one on anything I own. Don't care for greenpeace treehuggers either. Got the car for the gas mileage and for the fact that you can take the HOV lanes in Viginia with a hybrid car. Saves my wife about 30-45 mins in her commute.

I think that your figures make sense and I agree that 50 mpg is a very nice average if someone is driving in a normal manner. If the air conditioning were set to 68 in a hotter more southern climate---my guess would be 48-49. That is still very good.

I think that your figures make sense and I agree that 50 mpg is a very nice average if someone is driving in a normal manner. If the air conditioning were set to 68 in a hotter more southern climate---my guess would be 48-49. That is still very good.

I agree. Although "normal" driving is subjective. I probably wouldn't get the same gas mileage that my wife gets. I'm used to that V-8 I have in my Avalanche. So my medeocre gas mileage of 16/18 mpg that I get is more then offset by what she gets. I still recommend you take yours in though. The A/C is not operated by the gas motor, but electrically. Our temperature in the Northern VA region averages right up around 90 during the summer. They call this the south...definitely not the deep south though. I think you should be getting much better than 38 mpg even setting your temp at 68 and driving in 90+ temps outside. IMHO.

Hi, this is my first post on this site.

I've owned an 04 Honda Civic Hybrid since January and given the real owners data of all 3 hybrid cars at greenhybrid.com (http://www.greenhybrid.com) there is a large difference in individual performance.

All the regular ICE cars I've ever owned had a ~10MPG difference if driven hard Vs. conservatively. My Grand Caravan spread is about 7MPG.

Now my HCH is very much different....I can drive like a bat out of hell and get about 35MPG, or on the other extreme I've gottem about 66MPG (http://www.steve-dez.us/662.jpg) which is a whopping 30MPG difference. I always average 55-59MPG ~730 mile tanks.
I assume Prius is similar in regards to the MPG spread.

I think some people who buy hybrid cars expect the car to magically do it all...just hop in and gass it like we always did.

I see alot of parallels with the diet food industry.
Someone can spend money on the expensive diet food.
But they don't do their part...they don't exersize or seek advice, and they still remain fat.
They begin to blame the food, write letters to the FDA and publish articles slamming the diet food industry about false claims.

On the other hand someone else buys the same diet food, does his part with exersize and advice...He has wonderful results.

No, you don't have to drive as a road hazard as slow speed is not where great MPG is found. It is a technique that can be learned and even transfered over to your regular ICE vehicles.

Although in that case you'll gain far less MPG than you would in a hybrid car :p

Thanks for your time.

You are obviously from the South. Your post is the most accurate on this Board. It was why I started the thread. I was trying to say that my TDI could be driven normal (normal to me means---pass occasionaly--drive in the passing lane---cruise a little above the limit---etc) in short drive my car and enjoy and RESPECT it but not let it drive me. My Prius was a disgrace. Yes I could get excellent mpg but I had to let the car drive me! Light on the pedal so the cvt shifted up quick so the damned guage showed good mileage---watch the air--don't cruise at 80----in short a bore . I am not knocking the car but I feel it is for a an odd driver (no anger here but like Arnold would say a "girlie man") And then those idiotic Kerry stickers. If I did not personally know the guy it would not bother me so much. He IS a jerk.

You are obviously from the South. Your post is the most accurate on this Board. It was why I started the thread. I was trying to say that my TDI could be driven normal (normal to me means---pass occasionaly--drive in the passing lane---cruise a little above the limit---etc) in short drive my car and enjoy and RESPECT it but not let it drive me. My Prius was a disgrace. Yes I could get excellent mpg but I had to let the car drive me! Light on the pedal so the cvt shifted up quick so the damned guage showed good mileage---watch the air--don't cruise at 80----in short a bore . I am not knocking the car but I feel it is for a an odd driver (no anger here but like Arnold would say a "girlie man") And then those idiotic Kerry stickers. If I did not personally know the guy it would not bother me so much. He IS a jerk.

You're right, Kerry is a jerk...but that's another thread..LOL

The Prius is not a "normal" car and therefore it isn't driven "normal". You're right, in order to get close to the mpg figures, you have to drive the car the way it wants you to drive it, and that could be boring...but then again, unless I'm driving my HOG to work, the daily commute is boring no matter which car/truck I'm driving. My wife is actually having fun driving it. Unfortunately, people put too much into the EPA figures. The way they derive those numbers are not real-world. The run computer simulations based on gaseous output from the exhaust at various RPMs and "speeds". They need to do real-world, get out and drive the vehicles, but I fear their staff is not big enough to do that, so they use the computer simulation labs. Whenever you buy a car, no matter what it is, always use the EPA figures as what they are, an estimate. If you get close to them, consider yourself lucky, if you go over them, consider yourself really fortunate, but if you go under, don't sweat it. It doesn't mean the vehicle is bad...I don't put much faith in the EPA numbers anyway. Like I said, if I got close to them, I'd be very happy, but mainly I got the car because they are allowed to use the express lanes in Viginia without having 2-3 people in the car.

Guys, the mileage you quote is NOT the mileage promoted on the car. 60 is not 48! My TDI could get mileage in your league and it was WAY OVER the promoted mileage. Stop dreaming.

60 isnt the promoted mileage

its 60 city, 51 highway
48 is pretty close to the highway estimate... and i believe the EPA's highway value is 50mph. Sooo... we'll have to see what the average is that most people drive around in. For me.. most of the roads here are 45 MPH. That would mean my mpg would be closer to the EPA's highway estimate even though I consider myself not to be on the highway at all. Therefore, 48 mpg is not so far away from the EPA's 51 mpg.

"Vehicles are driven over identical driving patterns by professional drivers in controlled laboratory on a dynamometer. Road forces and aerodynamic forces are theoretically accounted for in the test. The city test is 7.5 miles long and is a stop and go trip with an average speed of about 20 miles per hour (mph). The trip lasts 23 minutes and has 18 stops. About 18 percent of the time is spent idling, as if waiting for traffic lights. A short freeway driving segment is included in the test. The engine is initially started after being parked overnight. The highway is a 10 mile trip with an average speed of 48 mph. The vehicle is started "hot" with little idling and no stops. Fuel economy values are calculated from the emissions generated during the tests using a carbon balance equation after measuring the carbon compounds expelled in the exhaust."

So its not that people don't get the EPA's Values. It depends on what speed you are going at. 80 mph on the highway is different than 48mph on the highway.

Oh baby! You could have been at Taladega today. No electric mobiles or Kerry voters there!

This amplifies a similar prior post. I just returned from a 1,000 mile trip in my SAAB (32mpg) and 80 mph most of the way. Again I must have seen 50 Prius(s)---ALL---I mean ALL driving in the right (slow lane) and below traffic speed. Why?????They are trying to get the mileage on their sticker and can't do much better than my SAAB if they go 80. What a complete farce. A car for the Liberals.

I think you've taken this waaay to much politically and personally. It's not fair to bash the Prius when you think its supported so much by liberals and you yourself are conservative. My friend has seen Prius flying at 90 from Columbia to St Louis so I doubt the validity of your statements as you are incredibly biased and right-winged. This will be the last post I will bother to write regarding this topic, which is a complete farse. Regarding your own mpg and your own experiences, you never brought forth evidence that you took the necessary precautions to improve fuel economy by carefully inspecting all the factors that lead to poor gas mileage. Who cares if all the other Prius are in the slow lane? They'll still be using less gas than you (www.greenhybrid.com) and polluting a lot less. yay conservatives.. only care about money and nothing else, like our environment or future.

Mileage figures are vastly over rated in the Prius. Source: NHTSA.
They are not good looking. Source: Me.
They are driven mostly by Liberals. Source: You.
Liberals care about the planet. Conservatives do not. Source: You.
Lastly, If you read the thread, you would know that I sold it because to even get near the advertized mileage---the technique of driving was agonal, boring and dangerous. To Wit: They are always in the slow lane.

not overrated: highway figures of EPA are under 50 mph as ALREADY STATED.
They are good looking: source IDEA Gold Award for 2004
Mostly driven by liberals: Source, YOU
Liberals care about planet, conservatives do not. Source: common knowledge.
Lastly, I know why you sold it and why you did not get the advertised mileage.

i am GLAD you don't have a Prius.

Good looking? Janet Reno attractive? Oh no Madeline Albright. Point is your taste sucks so I would not comment on looks.
Talk abought the cheap velour seats that start to wear the first month. Have you looked at the drivers seat of a 2 year old Prius, you little genius you?
Don't thin out the forests---let them burn.
Complete the picture----your from a blue state aren't you. I KNOW your not from MS.---your not smart enough.

You are now driving a saab so you shouldn't comment on looks.
Talk about cheap velour seats that have shown no wear at all after a month. Maybe the Prius can't stand your fat conservative ass.
Don't burn the forest, burn your house when you're sleeping.
Complete the picture--- i didn't say I was liberal, nor conservative, nor what state I was from. And in actuality, I'm from a red state. So much for simple, single minded, low IQ idiots who think they can assume whatever they want.

By the way, you spelled you're incorrectly.

yo i have a prius im 17

i go from NYC to canada averaged 68 miles per gallon in 48 degree weather

your TDI cant do that

VW TDI's have more problems i had a 01 Jetta TDI with lots of sensors going bad, specifically my MAF that went out 5 times in one year.

my prius no problems..



im not saying other cars suck im just saying your wrong with everything your describing and ur hard headed brain better understand ur a big dumbass talking shit about a car you know nothing about. and u better realize if a prius is bigger than a jetta, and prius has more torque ( 342 ft lbs )

please reply with more bs please. because ur just a dumbass

FUCKING BITCH DIE AND TPLZ BAN ME

bitch u dont know anything about cars,

bitch ur a dumbass
u fuckin fool
prius means im a genius
ur saab means ur a araab

look
too many people talk shit about a car they dont know, listen

its like you talking about a Geo Metro saying its fast.


think about the POS ur driving fag

u fag
u fag
u fag


im flaming because prius people needs a flame man

they dont argue

im tired of this

I LOVE YOU

342 ft lbs of torque= love

guess what man ur car sucks,
hi

may i start by saying, your a dumbass, period. and another thing, if you didnt get over 50 mpg on your prius, i really dont know how you were driving, if your trying to race in a prius stop kidding yourself. then again, your taste in cars isn't too good if your bought a TDi. lets see

prius: 60/51 mpg (for normal people who know how to drive)
Jetta TDi: 38/46 mpg (not even close)

emmisions
prius: almost zero

Tdi: have you ever seen that black shit coming out of a mack trucks exahust pipes? yep, thats coming out of your car too. byebye enviorment.

Hp:
Prius: 114
TDi: 100

in conclusion, prius dominates you

Mauleskyrocket. I would have to say, that your argument is full of fallacies. There is not one speck of support, yet you choose to take on the opinions of others who have done their homework by actually looking into the subject matter. First: Prius can look good to one person and bad to another. Its a matter of opinion, and frankly, I think its quite beautiful. Secondly, I do in fact get the reported mpg consistently. I guess your Prius didn't like you. I'm not going to continue devalidifying your arguments. You're too petty of a thinker to waste my time arguing with.

btw, im glad i dont live in MS, and im also glad the i dont find my sisters and cousins attractive.

PRIUS!! :)

Mississippi. According to http://chrisevans3d.com/files/iq.htm , you live in the state with the lowest average IQ. I am flattered that you thought I lived in a blue, more intelligent, state.

Why is Prius under investigation from NHTSA???? MS. people are obviously superior. Go back to post 1. Drive a Prius on the highway at 70 with air on and you are lucky to get 42 mpg. NHTSA agrees. The TDI will give 50 under those conditions. Also Kurt Wallander backs the SAAB. You guys are Kerry losers. Send your money to Hilary and complain until the next election you pinko.Go meet with your Prius's and and comfort each other. You need it children.

so in otherwords your saying you dont care about the air and the enviorment and you wouldnt mind living in with massive amounts of somg in the air from the diesel exhaust???

You dope. Should an F16 not fly? Do you want them grounded. You pinko's are really dumb. Go read your history. Listen to ALGORE the maniac and drive your Prius. The country is at war and you liberals are worried about pollution. I have news for you the air is getting cleaner! And that was before your duracell cars. Give me a good engine and a Charley one horse hat and a nice blond. You can have Hilary, Albright and ALGORE and your fraud car.

Boy, your Prius does not represent all. The rest of the Prius owners get better than 42 mpg in those conditions. It seems like your Prius did not like its driver.

No one is asking F16 to be grounded are they? You don't think that car pollution has a greater impact than F16 pollution? Now THAT's dumb. No one is arguing with you about politics so why did you bring it up? In fact, I'm not even a democrat so why do you think I'm going to care? I have news for you, CO2 is growing because the population is growing. You don't think global warming is going to affect you? Listen, higher sea temperatures = more chances for hurricanes. Why have we had so many more hurricanes this year than last? Simple, global warming. Talking about war? How about the constant battle that 17 million Americans must live through each day because they have asthma. You think a few soldiers dying every day is so dramatic, how about 82 people every day who suffocate to death because of pollution. And as for the car being fraud, you have no proof. Once again I rest my case with www.greenhybrid.com .

Oh and i also wonder why the National Highway Traffic SAFETY Administration would have anything to do with fuel economy figures. Doesn't seem like that is their specialty. Do you have a link for your arguement?

What are you a captain of? Your Prius duracell? Global Warming is nonsense. Cyclicle weather patterns. We have always had warming and coolong. See, now I know you not smart enough to be from MS. and I know you are no republican. I know you love your Prius. Been to Talledega with it?

I should add that the role of passive smoke in making the lives of people/children with hypersensitive airway disease is absolute and criminal. Anyone smoking in a public place should be tossed out on their a**.

Research shows direct correlation with increased amount of CO2 with increasing temperature. Unless this "cycle" is a coincidence and happens to coincide with the increasing amount of CO2, it is pretty obvious that Global Warming is real.

I also don't see how making fun of my screen name is proving any of your arguements.

And I also don't see what duracell has anything to do with this. Prius does not use duracell batteries and are far more optimized than what you try to make of it.

I apologize for maligning your title. Extensive CO2 cores taken from Antartica (as in no pollution) show a continual variance in CO2 over the past 1000 years. The levels---before cars---far exceed any levels seen now. As you know Mt. St Helens is now the biggest polluter in the West of this nation. So be happy with your Prius/Duracell but please don't tell us your saving the planet Captain.

I'm still curious as to why you are using Duracell with the Prius.

Mt St. Helens was the biggest polluter when it erupted, but it still goes without saying that the Earth's temperature has risen in direct correlation to increasing CO2 levels on OUR part.

take a look at this
http://yosemite.epa.gov/oar/globalwarming.nsf/content/climateuncertainties.html
they address both our arguements, but there is evidence that at least some of the warming is due to human interference.

CO2 isn't the only thing being emitted by cars either. The rest also contribute to the greenhouse effect.

And also, the Prius is helping a lot more than you think. Its use of new materials is less damaging to the environment than conventional cars.

If you still don't think I'm right by saying the Prius will help the environment, take a trip to China. 8% of its GNP has to be used to help those who have health problems due to car pollution. Ground-level ozone is both detrimental to people as well as plants and ecosystems. http://www.epa.gov/air/urbanair/ozone/chf.html

Although this may not affect you at all, it certainly affects my friends who have actually described the effects of asthma as a result of ground-level ozone without actually knowing that car pollution was causing his difficulty to breathe.

Although CO2 output and Global warming can be debated, it is without a doubt that the Prius does more in other areas in dealing with the environment.

The principal problem in China is the use of coal for their factories. Similar to the old Eastern bloc. I will grant you the Prius helps but I don't think it is the answer yet. But your heart is in the right place. As long as a conservative is in that White House---we can all be happy. Merry Christmas Captain.

Its true that a large portion of China's pollution is created by coal in factories and in home. However, places like San Fransisco had a cloud of smog over it when I flew in. Likewise, the friend I am talking about who has difficulty breathing because of pollution lives in Chicago.

Because the Prius uses a miller cycle engine, or atkinson, it is able to reduce the amount of exhaust drastically. It emits 90% less NOx than the average new car. (Even more if compared to diesel)

The Prius uses plant derived plastics which means it does not have to use petroleum that is harmful to the environment.

The Prius' battery is completely recyclable with mild chemicals and Toyota already has a recycling program for those batteries since Nickle is relatively valuable.

If you don't think this is the answer, do you know a better solution?

Fuel cells/Hydrogen require lots of energy to extract the Hydrogen which originates back to coal though power plants. If the whole country used hydrogen we wouldn't be able to use sunlight or water to power the process. Hydrogen is simply too inefficient compared to a gallon of gasoline. A hydrogen powered car was featured in an article, it has 2 large tanks that were stored in the trunk and it only had a range of 200 miles.

Therefore, hydrogen/fuel cells must not be what you are thinking of.

I think the near future is not the hydrogen cell and not the Prius. For many people who work hard, driving is part of their relaxation and enjoyment. I think the future belongs to small and efficient gasoline engines. I think we should tax the hell out of engines larger than 2 liters. It is all that is needed. Plus---any of you who have been to western europe and rented these small liter cars----know how really enjoyable they are. You get to enjoy working the little engine and yet getting very nice mileage as well. This seems one of the area that western Europe has gotten it right. On most other things they are fools.

Even so, a hybrid would simply make it more efficient and more powerful. For an 87 hp gasoline engine, pulling 2890 lbs of Prius from 0-60 in 10 seconds is all but unachievable without the power electric motor. And albeit you were not able to recieve the supposed FE figures, it would still be more efficient than using an 87 hp gasoline engine alone.

You are right. I guess I really disliked driving the Prius. Too much attention to overt mpg for me.

Spoke to a present/recent owner who took one on a trip and broke down. He was not happy with the wait for parts which you would think would be in stock. Apparantly the unique parts re the Prius are not everywhere.

mauleskyrocket u dont have a prius, if u did wheres the pictures?? and furthermore your full of nonsense you immature person. Look at you you dont even look at the facts


FACTS are that MOST owners are getting 48 mpg,

Dont compare prius to VW TDI's because PRIUS IS MUCH LARGER,

PRIUS has a more POWERFUL powertrain

and

PRIUS is something mauleskyrocket doesnt have or did have

Have you read your window sticker lately? Does it say 48?

hello?

anybody home?

Your TDI = Smaller
Prius = Bigger
Bigger car
48 mpg
also in the summer its very possible to get 60's so dont say shit if you dont know what u talking about.

Look i rode from NY to Canada at 70 to 80 mph and i got 67.5 mpg

i rode from NY to FL 3 times from 80 to 90 mph and i got 54 mpg,

your TDI cant do that, much less you dont even have a TDi or had a hybrid anyway.

Listen blue eyes my TDI can't do it, my SAAB can't do it and your Prius can't do it. Difference is my sticker never said I could.

blue eyes?

im black

and if u still think politics play into it, its not that

i voted for bush

you HAVE no justification in what you say, YOU DONT HAVE A PRIUS

if you had one show us pictures, ( and dont copy from other sites )

i bought a prius, because of cutting edge technology,
your TDI doesnt have that
your saab will never have that in 10 years.

If your friend's prius broke down and it was part of the hybrid drivetrain, it should be covered under warranty, no?

We don't drive the same way the EPA tests and that's true for ALL cars. Real world data shows that most cars get 80% of what the EPA states. if 80% of 55 is 44, Prius seems to be doing just as any other car would. (and even more since the real world data is 49mpg)

Here we can look up 2 other cars I have owned

Audi 100: 17.4mpg average (EPA estimates 22.5)
=77.33% of EPA's value

Chrysler 300M: 17.1mpg average (EPA estimates 21)
=81.43% of EPA's value

Prius: 49mpg (EPA estimates 55)
=89.09% of EPA's value

http://www.priuschat.com/forums/portal.php?topic_id=5898

EPA's values are wrong for the Prius. It's true for all cars.

You are all making the case. Prius promotion is bunk. You too blue eyes.

we are all making a case because you have no case.

The case is that all promotion is bunk. And the main promotion for the Prius is emissions and pollution, not mpg.

ok, Now we all agree. The EPA figures on the Prius are nonsense. It gets very good mileage when you drive it a certain way. Please go back to page one and post one.

It still looks like you are only singling out the Prius and its EPA values and also you say that you WILL only get 38 mpg by driving normally. This is where we disagree. I don't believe that all Prius will get 38 mpg if you drive normally and also the EPA figures on all cars are nonsense, not just the Prius. Here I'll say it again since I've said it 2 times already. EPA figures on ALL cars are nonsense.

Absolutely untrue. A TDI stickered at 49 highway will, in actuality, driven normaly, deliver up to 51. Prius on the other hand, driven at 75, with air on and 2 aboard, will give 38-42, especialy if you throw in a hill or two. This is NOT a bad car but shamelessly labeled thereby duping a certain % of buyers to purchase one. Sales have now dipped given there is no sense buying one to drive around with a Kerry sticker.

I have participated on countless forums to discuss hybrids over the past four years. Today, I joined another... this one.
JOHN http://john1701a.com

Hi guys long time no hear :)

I see mauleskyrocket is in his element unchanged :)

Glad to see you onboard John.

From several people who emailed you with little inquiries (4rom Europe) myself included, you never replied to any. If you would (like myself) appropriate this time elsewhere I would understand why 2 minute reply is so time consuming and demanding for you.

Yet you spend hours and hours within all sort of forums on weekly basis :(

Sad to see that you have become an elitist of some sort , and Prius simply attracts your wis as extension of something to display and talk about, while you really are not interested in more substance.

But I guess considering all the effort you dedicated to your exquisite site and available DATA, I still appreciate at least that.

Best regards,

PS: In case others who know me here at AF are asking : Why on earth you wrote this?

Well, John never replies to any emails, so this was the only chance for him to read this one. That is, out of his circle of interest.

Merry Christmas Volken and everyone.

Sorry, it's hard to keep up with all the requests... but at least I try.

Being impaired by both E10 gas and high-traction tires, the lifetime MPG average for my 2004 Prius is 49.2 MPG. So it's pretty safe saying that an "average joe" doing absolutely nothing different from their regular driving style could maintain an average in the mid-40's.

No diesel can deliver that, period. The term "average joe" means a mix of driving conditions. The daily commute is rarely a non-stop, high-speed cruise. And as soon as you slow down, MPG plummets in a diesel. The exact opposite happens in a full-hybrid. And the full-hybrid is dramatically cleaner (smog emissions) too.

Cold temperatures hurts efficiency as well. This mornings commute to work was at -6F. Despite that the Multi-Display still shows a pleasing 42.9 MPG. A diesel simply cannot compete with that.

The EPA is nonsense for all vehicles. The tests require a minimum temperature of 68F using summer-formula fuel. Today was drastically colder for me and I was stuck using winter-formula fuel mixing with ethanol. (So I was really screwed. Yet, MPG was still impressive.) The EPA's average cruising speed of just 48 MPH is a joke too. Obviously, people drive quite a bit faster... which hurts efficiency. The accleration-rate the EPA uses is quite misleading too. In the real-world, people merge onto highways and launch from red lights much faster... which hurts efficiency.

Anywho, actual data of traditional cars shows that full-hybrids (like Prius) are a geniune solution for both improving emissions & efficiency.

JOHN
http://john1701a.com

John, You are an academic dreamer. You are accurate on the Prius mileage---on the rest---bunk. Merry Christmas

look

EPA Figures are TRUE

i have a classic prius 2 of them, which is rated 45/52 mpg

I have gotten above 60 mpg lots of times in the summer, and thats highway mileage at 80 to 90 mph and with A/C on ( speeding BTW)

your TDI cannot do that. enough said.

EPA Figures are not EXACT, you can achieve above or below with various factors, if you say that driving rough with a prius is bad, your wrong, the prius is made to be driven rough ( as in hard acceleration ) your TDI isnt, your TDI has lots of recalls
and if you get 38 mpg either your car is bad, or your just a big elephant that has outrageous body weight.

VW diesels have lots of recalls with diesels PRIUS doesnt have recalls with such components to leave the car useless.

Make : VOLKSWAGEN Model : GOLF Year : 2004
Manufacturer : VOLKSWAGEN OF AMERICA, INC
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number : 04V586000 Recall Date : DEC 13, 2004
Component: FUEL SYSTEM, DIESEL
Potential Number Of Units Affected : 19284

Make : VOLKSWAGEN Model : JETTA Year : 2004
Manufacturer : VOLKSWAGEN OF AMERICA, INC
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number : 04V586000 Recall Date : DEC 13, 2004
Component: FUEL SYSTEM, DIESEL
Potential Number Of Units Affected : 19284

the only recall prius has is
Make : TOYOTA Model : PRIUS Year : 2004
Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number : 04V558000 Recall Date : NOV 18, 2004
Component: EXTERIOR LIGHTING:BRAKE LIGHTS:SWITCH
Potential Number Of Units Affected : 183090

If the prius has any problems they fix it free of charge, NOT WITH YOUR TDI, PLUS it gets better MPG .

mauleskyrocket,

you had a prius if so what year?

oh yah, what baout what you said about VW in a post before

"The Toareg is the worst VW I have ever owned. It lives in the shop. Vw cannot make high end cars and their dealers can't service them"
-mauleskyrocket,

oh yah, what baout what you said about VW in a post before "The Toareg is the worst VW I have ever owned. It lives in the shop. Vw cannot make high end cars and their dealers can't service them" -mauleskyrocket,

Although I agree about Touareg, and I think those who read this topic from the beginning know that nobody ever criticized diesel more harshly then me....Phaeton is truly a rare bird in milieu of decent and profiled industrial design. Even Audi A8 is short in comparison of Phaeton.

It would take several posts just to make a list of technological achievements found in Phaeton. It does present a mild reflection of Passat, but that resemblance is only a skin deep until you study this design within a touch of your hand. Truly a fantastic car, from standpoint of design.

That flair of hedonist mien however does not substitutes a wis of making priority to what is more important on evolutionary scale and that be nature :)

As for Touareg it is a shame in 2002 to have V10 diesel,one barely capable to pass Euro III norm :((((

I wont even compare this to regulation in US, because it is scary :(

Sorry, it's hard to keep up with all the requests... but at least I try.http://john1701a.com

Well, I have heard time to understand you found my mail uninteresting,

I provided the first promo pictures from Europe?s Prius

Also mysterious prototype of Japanese version (video with 2 Japanese test drivers)

I asked you concrete questions about audio systems only known to more advanced Prius users, sadly all this made you silent for months :(

You are a European tree hugger. We are discussing the Prius not the VW. How about listing the U.S. bulletins on that dog.

SHOW ME THE DATA!

You may make any claim you want. But without anything to support it, what's the point?

If diesel were such a great choice, how come it is at the bottom of the list for clean emissions and it rates close to the bottom for reliability?

Also note that for the 2004 model year, all of VW's US sales *combined* for *all* of their diesel model vehicles only totalled 35,000. So don't even attempt to quote the high resale value. With quantities so small, of course the used ones sell for a premium.

The HSD system in Prius is remarkably simple, and it is proving to be a very realistic choice. That is why Toyota is planning to offer a hybrid option for *every* passenger vehicle they sell by 2010.

JOHN
http://john1701a.com

This is a ridiculous stance. A Hybrid might be the anwer in 2010 and then it may not. I would like every person who does not own one and have to say they love it (unlike me ---who dumpt the dog) to test drive one and realize that driving as you knew and dare I say"enjoyed" (not allowed in a liberal world) is not even vaguely present. This car is zero fun. There I said it.

You are a European tree hugger. We are discussing the Prius not the VW. How about listing the U.S. bulletins on that dog.

Mauleskyrocket, my flying Talledega buddy,

Some substance is required when writing about anything.
I mentioned Volkswagen because you spoke about the same here, and then I returned to Prius.

I believe I have posted more then plenty reflecting the Prius and considering all the links and designs posted previously, It was me who posted the link to John's fantastic site long ago ;)

The reason why I never purchased the Prius was for one, lack of decent support for Prius, terribly late shipment in EU, and automatic transmission.

I use CNG (Earth Gas) as main driving source specially in the city drive so I can not only match Prius contribution to cleaner air but in some points even surpass them,because CNG exhaust is unmatched even with moderate Prius petrol emission.

If only they would employ a manual shift in Prius 3, and I'll be the first owner here ;)

...And for city parking I need less space, the car is too large for city drive in EU crowded streets :( (I know, this sounds strange to US)

But I'm content Prius is such sale success in states and the same actually brought shortage in shipment to EU to please your market, that is a great thing after all, great for environment and trend of recognizing this segment for future buyers

But there is no getting away mauleskyrocket....every time anyone here requested for you to present you pictures, any picture of your late Prius, you always either move to another topic or simply keep this in silence!

Most of the people presented their pictures, I certainly have elsewhere on this forum for other cars owned, but in your case this makes all you statements somewhat doubtful :(

How about finally show us some pictures ?

You said after Prius you purchased a Saab,...now you own (in your info.) Volkswagen Touareg???


http://www.01files.com/images/827130494Cap2.gif


For owner of this car, it is strange you even wrote the name wrong in you information details :lol:

Thank you for your wishes, same to you and have a great holidays,
naturally, I wish you all a great holidays.


PS: From bottom of my heart I hope time will
come for you to realize that environment has no party!

It belongs to everyone and it leaves responsibilities and bills for
our conducts.

Each party needs to breath just the same. I couldn't care less for
any of those parties, it is all the same to me, same system,different
positions, but the same system :(

Usualy Volken I take a picture of a car I like or a plane for that matterIf you want a SAAB fighter, a Lambo or an Aston (the latter two are in the garage). You are right re space and clean air. Most pollution now however, especially in the old Eastern bloc, is Industrial. I know that first hand. The catalytic industrial stack sweeper in the West has dramatically cleaned the air and the converter on cars has also played a major role here. New York now to New York 25 years ago---no comparison--it is like the country now. Mississippi really does not have that problem I am glad you don't own one Volken. Merry Christmas.

stop insulting people and calling them liars when they are speaking the truth. i've gotten 54 on the highway with A/C and with 2 OTHER people besides myself so stop accusing people of lying.

Merry Christmas to you too.

Of course your not telling a lie----just a gross exageration.

stop insulting people and calling them liars when they are speaking the truth. i've gotten 54 on the highway with A/C and with 2 OTHER people besides myself so stop accusing people of lying.

Merry Christmas to you too.

Ok Apollo. If you say it then it is so. Nevermind the slow lane. It doen't exist. Have a Prius New Year.

you're right. i don't use the slow lane

I know I am right re Prius's. Also know that most all Prius's use slow lane to get POSTED MPG.

http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,63413,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1

nuff said!


Man you really are annoying.

That was meant for the "liberal".

If you look at the new post. I ask a few simple questions----why 50 in city---car is supposed to get 60 in city. One year wait is nonsense--I can get another in 3 weeks anywhere---just need a phone and a brain. Now for highway --note the 30's figure quoted. You guys are engaging in mass hysteria.

your questions have been answered: the EPA does not use the same techniques normal drivers would use. they do not use A/C and the average highway speed is 48 mph.

On average with normal driving, people will get 80% of what the EPA states. Why did the EPA get 60 in the city? Because the EPA's test is faulty. And that's true for ALL, that's right I said ALL cars.

I think its mass hysteria when you've been given facts over and over and over and you can't accept them through your thick skull

No need to be personal Captain as I outrank you by far. As usual you are careless in your statements. Fact is EPA UNDERSTATES SOME CARS. ASK A NEW SAAB OWNER WHY THE STICKER SAYS 29 HIGHWAY AND YOU GET A TRUE 32-33? Ditto TDI's. Ditto the KIA Soreento etc.

you've already taken this beyond personal with your political comments and condescending tone. You don't talk about city driving with Saabs, how "great" is that? Maybe you don't talk about it because it gets lower than sticker fuel economy and you're trying to save face? i think so.

I note you never address the post prior----instead you personalize.

I note that i did address the post prior ---- and instead you still continue to patronize. "No need to be personal Captain as I outrank you by far." What is this comment supposed to mean. I outrank you by far? You are personalizing right here. "As usual you are careless in your statements." Personalizing here too. So spare me your feigns of awareness.

Sorry. You chose the name Captain. As a matter of protocol, I assumed you are/were a Captain. I am far higher than a Captain. That's all I meant. If you are not a Captain you might change your moniker.

I heard that Popular Mechanics compared te Jetta TDI and the Prius. It's not online so I will have to go buy it

Any luck re article?

I didn't find the article in the edition at the store, either the store didn't get the newest one or the issue was last months. Have you seen it?

No, it is not in the present issue.

There is a long range report which on the whole is positive. Negatives are 25% report troubles and 75% would like better fuel economy. While not explicit--I think that 75% is reacting to their not being able to reach the EPA figures. That is my interpretation however and others may have a differing view and be incorrect simultaneously.

Oh, did you get a chance to read it? its in the february edition

I found it online. Not a comparison with TDI but a long term survey of owners.

Do you have a link to the article?

Oh, i looked on the site and I see what you mean. I'll keep looking for the Feb edition of popular mechanics

Why have these cars become so available lately----new and used?

Why 3 Prius flatbedded to dealer???? Can batteries handle low temps???

more available because more are being produced, pretty simple to diagnose

3 at the dealer could be for a plethora of reasons which are most likely not attributed to low temperatures causing batteries to go caddywhompus

did you read the article in popular mechanics yet? i did

No. What did it say?

i actually just looked at the results. It basically said that the TDI's 0-30 was faster than the Prius but its 0-60 was slower. And then it went on to say that the TDI was more of a driver's car (which is understandable being its VW), however, the Prius edged out in fuel economy by 1.6 mpg. (they used their own testing methods)

Thx Apollo, that is one of my gripes re the Prius. I owned a Passat TDI years ago and then a Golf TDI and later a Jetta TDI. I watched the mileage carefully. But like the Prius, and my personality, I began "driving for mileage" and it just ruined the enjoyment of the car. The fact however remains that the Prius is not really what is advertized and is on par with a TDI mileage wise. There is no doubt the VW handles better.

Ya'll, As I surfed the threads for the Prius, there is no end of opinions. This is good .... like the inside of a good barrel of pacific blue water.
Now, please extend my education by giving me your experience in the below areas?

1) Maintenance issues for 2004->2005 Prius models. What are the problems and countermeasures?
2) Are there hidden ownership costs in battery replacement life expectancy?) Other's experiences in the midwest & southwestern states for air conditioning satisfaction. [/COLOR] I.E. 98(f)degree days, is the car hot? or can be cooled ok (disregard any mileage issues).
4) Auto collision or crash experiences? Safety issues ?

FYI, from OKC, OK (Oklahoma City), driver feedback from leasing a 2004 Prius in September (hot, humid month), on a drive from OKC-> Austin, Texas and back, at mph of 70 to 90, air conditioning was good, mileage was excellent, (3/4 tank consumption each way [50mpg]). Female driver traveling in the Fast Lane passing VW's .... no offense just fact.

FYI#2 the price of a used Japanse imported Prius in New Zealand is quoted :"We have priced 3y old Japanese imported Prius at about $23K [$US16K]. New is hard to obtain, >$NZ40K I think."

For your region and tax structure car may be fine. On the trip you (she) took the diesel would have given you better mpg. I also know you cannot run a Prius in 90 defrees F with the air on and 3 adults and go 80-90 mph and get better than 38 mpg. You can get 48 with the diesel. So to each his own---but the Prius is not what the adds STILL say. Sales are not at the same pace they once were. Long term maintenance and reliability must be a question since no long term data exists.

For your region and tax structure car may be fine. On the trip you (she) took the diesel would have given you better mpg. I also know you cannot run a Prius in 90 defrees F with the air on and 3 adults and go 80-90 mph and get better than 38 mpg. You can get 48 with the diesel. So to each his own---but the Prius is not what the adds STILL say. Sales are not at the same pace they once were. Long term maintenance and reliability must be a question since no long term data exists.
[COLOR=blue]
OK Mauleskyrocket, thank you once again for providing your opinion. it is respected and valued.

But can you help all of us by answering or providing facts for the 4 questions/items I listed before your reply? I truly value facts and stats... and I simply am not concerned with comparisons to any other vehicle, as I am focused on learning of others' knowledge of the 4 items.

Thank you once again for your opinion and I will inform the woman who drove (both ways) from OKC<->Austin, TX that she simply did not do what she reported because you say it can not be done. (but she may not agree with you as reality is fact, right?) [As Dale Carnegie once stated somewhere, no one wins an arguement], so focusing on experience with fact/stats, does tend to weight the scales on her statement. Thank you truly for your knowledge and if you do have stat's and no comparisons, please share them as we want to learn the cause for discrepancy of your experience to her reality.

Best regards.......

If you took the time to read the thread you will see the various citations----one from the NHTSA which references the Prius as one of the main reason to redo the mileage figures on new car stickers. I am not leaning on one persons opinion. I don't even know if they know how to fill a car for mileage estimates. FULL TO FULL is the only way and that means LEVEL ground and fill until you see the gasoline!!!! Any other method can be totally erroneous. Usually with any hope for high mpg---the individual will fill to the brim----drive on a highway---then refill to the click---and do the math and believe their car gets 50 on the highway.

Ya'll, As I surfed the threads for the Prius, there is no end of opinions. This is good .... like the inside of a good barrel of pacific blue water.
Now, please extend my education by giving me your experience in the below areas?

1) Maintenance issues for 2004->2005 Prius models. What are the problems and countermeasures?
2) Are there hidden ownership costs in battery replacement life expectancy?) Other's experiences in the midwest & southwestern states for air conditioning satisfaction. [/COLOR] I.E. 98(f)degree days, is the car hot? or can be cooled ok (disregard any mileage issues).
4) Auto collision or crash experiences? Safety issues ?

FYI, from OKC, OK (Oklahoma City), driver feedback from leasing a 2004 Prius in September (hot, humid month), on a drive from OKC-> Austin, Texas and back, at mph of 70 to 90, air conditioning was good, mileage was excellent, (3/4 tank consumption each way [50mpg]). Female driver traveling in the Fast Lane passing VW's .... no offense just fact.

FYI#2 the price of a used Japanse imported Prius in New Zealand is quoted :"We have priced 3y old Japanese imported Prius at about $23K [$US16K]. New is hard to obtain, >$NZ40K I think."

No maintenence issues really. Unlike normal cars and diesel, the Prius does not need timing belt changes, transmission maintenence, etc. Even the A/C is electric so it can have varying air compression speeds to maximize efficiency. I live in the midwest and the A/C is amazing. if you change the temp by one degree, the automatic a/c knows where to flow the air and also i can feel the temperature change. The A/C feels really good on hot days. Also since its electric, it gets colder a lot quicker. It doesnt need to run off the gasoline or diesel engine for power (and it doesnt drain power that way).

there really are no hidden costs, the battery has been known to go beyond 200k miles and i have no knowledge of any Prius needing a battery replacement. However, for the NORMAL accesorry 12v battery, they sometimes need to be replaced when they are drained because a door is left ajar overnight.

Like I said before, the a/c is awesome because it doesn't draw power from the gasoline engine. therefore even in 98 degree weather, you get instant a/c.

Also you'll be getting better mpg in hotter weather just because the engine isn't required to warm up. around 50 mpg is the average for Prius drivers. you can check out www.greenhybrid.com that has a real database where people list their mpg. The lowest anyone has gotten was 38.

Pertaining to maleskyrocket's opinion regarding mpg, I beleive he only owned his Prius for a few short months in winter which is already a double whammy. One because of the winter formula of gas which decreases mpg, and also because cold weather causes the car to use more gas during warm up. Secondly, he did not allow his Prius to break in so the engine was not loose. Even with 3 months of driving at 3000 miles, the engine is not at optimum efficiency.

To mauleskyrocket: you say usually the individual fills to the brim and then refills to the click in order to achieve 50 on the highway.. How are you going to justify this statement? how do you know they didn't use the display instead? I find your last comment purely unjustifiable with no evidence to support your theory and it shows your bias. Even your arguement on Prius advertising showing erroneous and high fuel economy is bunk because the only Prius advertising that has been on TV was the one on the superbowl, in which there were NO mpg figures. If you are referring to how the sticker on the car is erroneous, think about how the government requires every car to list that. Its NOT advertising. Salesmen also have nothing to do with it, that's the dealer's problem if they claim the Prius WILL get it. Also, notice how Popular Mechanics compared a manual TDI to the Prius' CVT. Manual TDI gets better mpg than the automatic and it still falls short of the Prius' mpg by 1.6mpg. Needless to say, the Prius is also larger than the Jetta TDI as well as heavier so its not as if it was the best comparison in the world. I agree that the Jetta probably handles much better, however, I choose safety, convenience, and luxury over a pure driving experience that would last less than 20 minutes on boring 40 mph roads with stoplights.

Back to Okhobieman: if you have questions, the best place to ask them would be priuschat.com where real owners can tell you their own experiences.

Safety: The prius was tested by Europe's test center three times more than a normal car because it utilizes an industry's first: Ultra High Strength Steel on the B-pillars. They found the car to be number 1 in its class for safety as well as number 1 overall for chlid occupant safety. The NHTSA tested the Prius without curtain/side airbags and it still received a 5 star frontal, 4 star side impact rating. The article is right http://www.newstreet.it/home/article_Id_627.html here.

No maintenence issues really. Unlike normal cars and diesel, the Prius does not need timing belt changes, transmission maintenence, etc. Even the A/C is electric so it can have varying air compression speeds to maximize efficiency. I live in the midwest and the A/C is amazing. if you change the temp by one degree, the automatic a/c knows where to flow the air and also i can feel the temperature change. The A/C feels really good on hot days. Also since its electric, it gets colder a lot quicker. It doesnt need to run off the gasoline or diesel engine for power (and it doesnt drain power that way).

there really are no hidden costs, the battery has been known to go beyond 200k miles and i have no knowledge of any Prius needing a battery replacement. However, for the NORMAL accesorry 12v battery, they sometimes need to be replaced when they are drained because a door is left ajar overnight.

Like I said before, the a/c is awesome because it doesn't draw power from the gasoline engine. therefore even in 98 degree weather, you get instant a/c.

Also you'll be getting better mpg in hotter weather just because the engine isn't required to warm up. around 50 mpg is the average for Prius drivers. you can check out www.greenhybrid.com that has a real database where people list their mpg. The lowest anyone has gotten was 38.

Pertaining to maleskyrocket's opinion regarding mpg, I beleive he only owned his Prius for a few short months in winter which is already a double whammy. One because of the winter formula of gas which decreases mpg, and also because cold weather causes the car to use more gas during warm up. Secondly, he did not allow his Prius to break in so the engine was not loose. Even with 3 months of driving at 3000 miles, the engine is not at optimum efficiency.

To mauleskyrocket: you say usually the individual fills to the brim and then refills to the click in order to achieve 50 on the highway.. How are you going to justify this statement? how do you know they didn't use the display instead? I find your last comment purely unjustifiable with no evidence to support your theory and it shows your bias. Even your arguement on Prius advertising showing erroneous and high fuel economy is bunk because the only Prius advertising that has been on TV was the one on the superbowl, in which there were NO mpg figures. If you are referring to how the sticker on the car is erroneous, think about how the government requires every car to list that. Its NOT advertising. Salesmen also have nothing to do with it, that's the dealer's problem if they claim the Prius WILL get it. Also, notice how Popular Mechanics compared a manual TDI to the Prius' CVT. Manual TDI gets better mpg than the automatic and it still falls short of the Prius' mpg by 1.6mpg. Needless to say, the Prius is also larger than the Jetta TDI as well as heavier so its not as if it was the best comparison in the world. I agree that the Jetta probably handles much better, however, I choose safety, convenience, and luxury over a pure driving experience that would last less than 20 minutes on boring 40 mph roads with stoplights.

Back to Okhobieman: if you have questions, the best place to ask them would be priuschat.com where real owners can tell you their own experiences.

Safety: The prius was tested by Europe's test center three times more than a normal car because it utilizes an industry's first: Ultra High Strength Steel on the B-pillars. They found the car to be number 1 in its class for safety as well as number 1 overall for chlid occupant safety. The NHTSA tested the Prius without curtain/side airbags and it still received a 5 star frontal, 4 star side impact rating. The article is right http://www.newstreet.it/home/article_Id_627.html here.

[COLOR=blue]Thank YOU very much for the knowledge transfer!
I continue to gather information and am corresponding with dealers via the internet option for purchasing, from the below dealer this is his quote when asked about price in Oklahoma City , Okalahoma, USA (OKC):

"You can pretty much get one in OKC at or VERY near MSRP (manufacturer's suggested retail price). I'll let you know as we get Prius's that come in that aren't sold."

MIKE SULLIVAN Internet Sales Manager Dub Richardson Toyota, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, USA
Dealership: 405-721-1911 Direct Line: 405-506-6261
Toll Free: 877-921-1911

What a bunch of bunk! The Prius I had was in the summer and had 6K on it when I sold it and bought a Saab. It is not only a car which caters to mpg persons who know very little about the topic but also has legions of owners who live in denial of the cars shortcomings. Go on any thru roadway and you will find them----in the slow lane--trying to get the mpg they thought they would get.

What a bunch of bunk! The Prius I had was in the summer and had 6K on it when I sold it and bought a Saab. It is not only a car which caters to mpg persons who know very little about the topic but also has legions of owners who live in denial of the cars shortcomings. Go on any thru roadway and you will find them----in the slow lane--trying to get the mpg they thought they would get.

Good evening Mauleskyrocket, I hope you have enjoyed a good meal with family and are well.

It is difficult to respond to emotions vs logic and facts. I understand your pain but can not share the emotional response.

Please share in the discussion by contributing on the 4 topics. In this manner you will be able to present your position with adequate substance to gain support of your opinion. OK?

What knowledge do you have to contribute?

OK, as for myself, the lake forecast is glassy conditions for kayaking with a hot cup of java and earphones tomorrow morning. Good night and best regards..... PS: she is driving in the fast lane tonight .... :2cents:

deal with facts. You speak like Kerry.

What a bunch of bunk! The Prius I had was in the summer and had 6K on it when I sold it and bought a Saab. It is not only a car which caters to mpg persons who know very little about the topic but also has legions of owners who live in denial of the cars shortcomings. Go on any thru roadway and you will find them----in the slow lane--trying to get the mpg they thought they would get.

lets assume 6k would be around 6 months. when did you get your saab? the post i see is around june/july which would mean you got your prius in january. January through june/july is hardly all summer. Its more like winter/spring and 3 weeks of summer. Also, can you say that 6k will fully break in the engine? people on the forums say 10k. The only bunk I see is how you generalize Prius drivers and constantly insult them. Also, you are HARDLY dealing with facts at all. You think we live in denial because of the car's shortcomings? I say, it has far exceeded my expectations in comfort and luxury. Even if I were getting the low 38 mpg you "advertise", its still double what I was getting before with my old car. PLUS its larger than the older car. I don't see any denial in being happy with my purchase.

lets assume 6k would be around 6 months. when did you get your saab? the post i see is around june/july which would mean you got your prius in january. January through june/july is hardly all summer. Its more like winter/spring and 3 weeks of summer. Also, can you say that 6k will fully break in the engine? people on the forums say 10k. The only bunk I see is how you generalize Prius drivers and constantly insult them. Also, you are HARDLY dealing with facts at all. You think we live in denial because of the car's shortcomings? I say, it has far exceeded my expectations in comfort and luxury. Even if I were getting the low 38 mpg you "advertise", its still double what I was getting before with my old car. PLUS its larger than the older car. I don't see any denial in being happy with my purchase.


HI, just back from kayaking in the rain, spring is eternal and the redbuds are blooming .....

This is the type of data I found in www.consumerreports.org. Check it out by logging on and looking in auto section. Their opinion I value, and I urge you to drop the emotion and focus on the facts as you so pointedly requested. OK?

Thank you again for motivating everyone to show you the right side of the road is not always the slow lane ..... bye.....

Reliability history
Toyota Prius
97 98 99 00 01 02 03 04
Engine
Cooling
Fuel
Ignition
Transmission
Electrical
A/C
Suspension
Brakes
Exhaust
Power equipment
Paint/Trim/Rust
Body integrity
Body hardware
Reliability Verdict

Safety information

Safety belts:
Pretensioners, front/rear Yes/no
Center-rear 3-point

Air bags:
Occupant sensing system Not available
Side air bags, front/rear Optional/no
Head protection air bags Optional
Accident alert system Not available

Active safety features:
Antilock brakes Standard
Traction control Standard
Stability control Optional
Daytime running lights Not available
Tire pressure monitor Available

Crash tests:
Gov't front-crash test, driver:
Gov't front-crash test, front passenger:
Gov't side-crash test, driver
Gov't side-crash test, rear passenger
IIHS offset crash test NA

Specifications
Drive wheels
Front
Seating
2 front, 3 rear
Engines available
1.5-liter 4 (76+67 hp)
Transmissions available
CVT
Fuel
Fuel type Regular
EPA city/highway, mpg 60/51
Fuel refill capacity, gal. 11.9
Dimensions and weight
Length, in. 175
Width, in. 68
Wheelbase, in. 106
Curb weight, lb. 2,950
Percent weight, front/rear 59/41
Typical towing ability, lb. NR

I hope you all enjoy the Prius if you own one. I would just drive a diesel first---and you will probably not buy the Duracell powered car. Be nice. Be polite.

duracell? , come on you just dont know jack about the prius, much less any car since you own a cheap econobox. how about lets see your pictures of the SAAB and the prius that you claimed to have?

your basically a bunch of bunk.

hybrids are the future
Diesels aren't


let me see pictures?
and i bet when u reply mauleskyrocket, you would just ignore my statement about pictures and say " Prius is a bunch of bunk u kerry retards"


therefore since we cant change YOUR views on the prius, just stop arguing since there are much more people out there that support the technology than you

With respect, it's "many more people" not "much more people"--vegatz?

Local dealers are urging a leatherette dealer option. Looks quite good. Apparantly, original upholstery tends to "rib" on seat edge ---even with minor use. Recommend leatherette.

haven't had a problem and i'm over 200 lbs

Not a big problem. It is just that contoured seats "rib" on edges very easily in cloth. The $1,000-1500 option seems worth it if someone plans on keeping the battery car (joke).

In my opinion, diesel (whether it's regular or the new bio-diesel) is still fuel, and it will still be depleted like any other fuel over time

True but under thermodynamics anything which results in gaining power will likewise be depleted in time.

There have been 2 interestings post on the Prius Board. One dealing with height and performance and one with Consumer Reports. On the performance issue--don't buy one. If you enjoy driving and drive v-8's you will stomp the Prius---your mileage will be terrible---you will be sorry you bought it.
Re Consumer Reports----because it is viewed as green it is highlighted. Otherwise the usual shoddy job of CR.

deal with facts. You speak like Kerry.

First off, this is not a political forum, if you would like to talk about the prius, please do so, if you want to talk politics we have a forum for that as well, please go there for political conversation.

Second, i was just wondering if you were aware exactly how stupid that statement made you sound. Just a thought but if your trying to have an educated discussion regarding pros and cons, facts would be something you should probly embrace.

oh yes almost forgot, have a nice day.

I know I am right re Prius's. Also know that most all Prius's use slow lane to get POSTED MPG.

I havent read any of these 16 pages but I gotta question for you.

What does "re" mean?!? One of my online teachers uses it all the time, and its not English so i'm not sure. Does it mean about? And you wouldn't happen to know what "vis-a-vis" means would you? It really annoying trying to read fast with those words in there.

re means regarding.

lil side note: mom took the prius and reduced average mpg by 1mpg :( now its only 48