Y do people hate hondas so much....


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Boss San
04-12-2004, 01:54 AM
What, like a new car? :lol2:

Prelewd
04-12-2004, 03:08 AM
What, like a new car? :lol2:

Yea.. actually. Part of the reason I bought the prelude was because of the people on the forum here.

..then you started typing. :rolleyes:

J_Spec_NiTeMaRe
04-12-2004, 03:58 PM
I don't think it's that they love them, it's that they suffer from a lack of knowledge about cars. They have the desire to modify their vehicles, but lack the necessary cash and brains to do it tastefully. Clear taillights are cheap, easy to install and, sadly, are a 'gateway mod' for many peoples cars. This is my theory on ricers anyway...



Exactly my stance on Hondas and "ricers". It's the optimistic viewpoint, if you will. Even though I own a 240 and like to go sideways instead of straight more often nowadays, I can still appreciate a nicely done Honda. Especially a Prelude...I see you own a 4th Gen Lude too. I'm considering getting a 4G VTEC and building an all motor monster. I would boost it...but I find alot more integrity and respect in a NA car. Well a NA Honda with drag racing in mind at least, as opposed to a boosted Honda built for dragging.

lazysmurff
04-25-2004, 10:29 PM
ok, so i drive a honda prelude too (3rd gen si) and i love it. sure, its a little plasticy on the interior, but hey, for 3000, ill take it.

and yeah, ive made mods, but there is a difference between mods, and style. no wings, no lights, no body kit, no aftermarket rims (though a set of 16 inch five spokes wouldnt be bad) no funny colors or stupid stickers. i even considered sanding the beast down and spray painting it flat black just so it would be less the ricer.

and ill be the first to admit my 4 banger b21a isnt the fastest engine in the world, but ive shown my tailights to more than my fair share of v-6 camaros and mustangs pulling up on me because they think their car is fast simply because of the name on the bumper.

its not the car that is hated, its the additude of the driver. car pride is one thing (i'll defend my car against any insult or attack) but car stupidity is another (no, your civic does NOT need a 4 foot wing on the back...indy cars dont have wings that big)

fajita23200
04-26-2004, 09:09 AM
ok, so i drive a honda prelude too (3rd gen si) and i love it. sure, its a little plasticy on the interior, but hey, for 3000, ill take it.

and yeah, ive made mods, but there is a difference between mods, and style. no wings, no lights, no body kit, no aftermarket rims (though a set of 16 inch five spokes wouldnt be bad) no funny colors or stupid stickers. i even considered sanding the beast down and spray painting it flat black just so it would be less the ricer.

and ill be the first to admit my 4 banger b21a isnt the fastest engine in the world, but ive shown my tailights to more than my fair share of v-6 camaros and mustangs pulling up on me because they think their car is fast simply because of the name on the bumper.

its not the car that is hated, its the additude of the driver. car pride is one thing (i'll defend my car against any insult or attack) but car stupidity is another (no, your civic does NOT need a 4 foot wing on the back...indy cars dont have wings that big) I don't dislike hondas.They are very economical cars. I'm just curious.You bought the car for $3000.00.How much would it cost to make it really fast???

lazysmurff
04-26-2004, 04:00 PM
define really fast.

i have no trouble defeating other NA four bangers and many NA 6's. even beat a v8 once (dodge truck, on the highway, no big deal)

all this with only (quick estimate) $350 dollars worth of intake, headers, and exhaust work.

plenty fast for me.

but if you mean to make it run 12's or 11's....jesus man, we're looking at another 5-6 grand for the h22a swap, then another 3 grand for the turbo kit, a grand or so in suspension upgrades.....etc etc etc

point being about 3500 down the road ive got a quick car, that still gets 35 miles to the gallon (in the city no less) and IMHO looks pretty nice (please note, it is still BONE STOCK in appearance, if you dont notice the flowmaster muffler, which most people dont.)

sure, it wont outrun a GS-T, but im only 19 and still in college. ive got awhile to go. lord knows i wont be driving this car all my life.

Joseph1082
04-26-2004, 05:34 PM
A Turbo H22 still gets 35 mpg, think you'd better check on that!

lazysmurff
04-26-2004, 05:45 PM
sorry, i think you misunderstood me.

my car currently (thats $3500 including mods) gets 35 mpg.

sorry for the confusion. im not THAT stupid

Joseph1082
04-26-2004, 09:54 PM
oh, my bad

Hyatus
04-26-2004, 10:13 PM
i hate honda's cause some of them are black. Does that make me a racist or a riceist?

My truck is white, White Power!

D[X]P
04-26-2004, 11:48 PM
Yes

youngvr4
04-27-2004, 12:24 AM
wtf are you talking about

jcz1987
04-27-2004, 12:40 AM
I can see why people hate Hondas. First of all, Hondas are imports that are affordable and popular among teens. Younger people tend to "sup" up these cars becasue their cheap and look "cool." Second they are the most stolen cars in the United States. Personally, I think Hondas are OK. But what I hate about them is that people think that their little "rice rocket" can outrun a Ferrari or Lamborghini. A while back, Some guy in his Civic was saying shit that his Civic can eat my Subaru. Turns out I beat him easily.

youngvr4
04-27-2004, 01:43 AM
of course

D[X]P
04-27-2004, 05:04 PM
I like most cars anyways. Hondas arent that bad


the only thing I hate about them is that everyone has one(well,almost)

lazysmurff
04-27-2004, 07:39 PM
so do you hate hondas, or do you hate everyone for buying the same brand?

crazyelmo
04-27-2004, 10:35 PM
I can see why people hate Hondas. First of all, Hondas are imports that are affordable and popular among teens. Younger people tend to "sup" up these cars becasue their cheap and look "cool." Second they are the most stolen cars in the United States. Personally, I think Hondas are OK. But what I hate about them is that people think that their little "rice rocket" can outrun a Ferrari or Lamborghini. A while back, Some guy in his Civic was saying shit that his Civic can eat my Subaru. Turns out I beat him easily.

I agree with you. I hate when kids in thier rice rockets think there so hotshit. It's funny to see how they think they're the best with thier hondas!

Prelewd
04-28-2004, 12:57 AM
I agree with you. I hate when kids in thier rice rockets think there so hotshit. It's funny to see how they think they're the best with thier hondas!

You could say that about any car owners.. except for maybe the pagani or mclaren group..

Little_Stang87
04-28-2004, 08:01 AM
I don't hate hondas (that much) it really depends on if they are way too Lookish...but there is nothing wrong with it.

Raz_Kaz
04-28-2004, 10:51 AM
I don't haye Honda's either...I just hate the cars that have bigger stickers than wings and tha jack-ass half brain spoiled little bratt driving it and claiming to have the fastest car because of a couple of gt-r and type-r badges.

D[X]P
04-28-2004, 06:03 PM
so do you hate hondas, or do you hate everyone for buying the same brand?
I said In my last post that I dont hate hondas. Hondas are cool with me :smile:

Jimster
04-28-2004, 11:41 PM
People hate Hondas for one reason. To be trendy and disguise the fact that they know nothing.

Most people over look the fact that Honda along with Alfa Romeo and Peugeot/Citroen and most recently Ford/Mazda (focus, KA, Fiesta, Mondeo, 2, 3, 6), have pioneered the entertaining Front-drive chassis.

Even a base model Civic provides an entertaining drive, with dynamics far better than any other Front-drive Small-Medium Japper. Except maybe the Mazda3.

Or how about 250 bhp out of a 2.0 16 valve N/A 4 Cylinder motor?? Very few have matched that.

Nothing wong with Honda at all, only Ferrari and BMW can out-engineer them.

TankMMC
04-29-2004, 12:06 AM
Even a base model Civic provides an entertaining drive, with dynamics far better than any other Front-drive Small-Medium Japper. Except maybe the Mazda3.


The TS Corolla is a fuckload more fun to drive than any Civic I've driven (which is pretty much all of them, from the new 1.7L ones to the dirty old "Hondamatic" ones, and the b16A powered SiR.)

As for the honda-hating thing, some of it is ignorance, and some of it is fueled by stupid Honda-owning ricers who talk a lot of shit, like the guy at my work who to this day claims he beat an EVO5 on the motorway in his DC2 integra (which is a really nice car by itself, but not quite evo5- wasting material.
Honda makes some of the worlds best N/A engines, its a shame it gets a bad name as a result of stupid people buying their cars.

publicenemy137
04-29-2004, 12:26 AM
^ their only good n/a engine is the S2k, other than that all the other ones are made for fuel efficiency. the NSX"s engine is good too but way too much for it's price.

TankMMC
04-29-2004, 07:58 AM
Are you saying they didnt have any good performance-oriented engines before the S2000 came out?

Joseph1082
04-29-2004, 11:38 AM
What n/a 2.0L has 250HP??? The S2K has 240

publicenemy137
04-29-2004, 05:36 PM
Are you saying they didnt have any good performance-oriented engines before the S2000 came out?

compared to other engines, not really. H22A's aren't all that great, b18c's aren't that great either. non-turboed four bangers that get good mileage, get 15s in 1/4 mile, aren't considered good performance-oriented engines. And any FWD car isn't considered a performance oriented racing car either.

2strokebloke
04-29-2004, 05:57 PM
Honda's very first cars were sports cars, the S500, S600, S800. The engines offered decent output for their size.
Even their non-performance cars offered rather good outputs, the N360 giving good ammount from 360cc, though much higher revving than it's 2-stroke competitors, and less well behaved (but less smoke too!)
They didn't make the highest powered engine in the 360 class, that goes to Mitsubishi, but they were one of the first companies to believe that buyers of small cars might want some more fun, and took aim at the younger section of the market, otherwise Subaru would've probably continued dominating Japan's small car market.

lazysmurff
04-29-2004, 06:15 PM
the h22a isnt that great eh?

lets not forget there are NA H22's running low ten's

thats not a half bad engine if you ask me

Prelewd
04-29-2004, 06:26 PM
compared to other engines, not really. H22A's aren't all that great, b18c's aren't that great either. non-turboed four bangers that get good mileage, get 15s in 1/4 mile, aren't considered good performance-oriented engines. And any FWD car isn't considered a performance oriented racing car either.

Hey man.. at least Honda didn't have to use boost to get there.. [cough]GS-X/GS-T[ccough/] As far as racing is concerned, reliability is an issue as well. :biggrin:

As far as FWD is concerned, I know you can pull a g on the skidpad with minor suspension work in a prelude.. I can't say the same about the teg, but being lighter, and having a bigger aftermarket, I wouldn't imagine it's much different. I have personally shook a few cars, that'd be faster on the straight, through the corners.

Wont a 200hp ITR take a 220hp Silvia stock for stock anyway?

publicenemy137
04-29-2004, 09:43 PM
^ Maybe an Integra Type R can take a SR20DET-powered silvia but the sr20det is a lot cheaper than the b18c type r engine, and almost the same speed. I'd say balls out performance engine is the VQ35DE engine (287 out of a 3.5 liter V6 with a lot of possibilities is pretty damn good), RB26DETT, LS1's, 2jz's, 4g63's (not too reliable though), and F20c's. I'm not saying the H22C is a bad engine, quite the opposite it's good, but it's not balls out performance designed. It's a 4-banger gas efficient engine also, which isn't a bad thing. My KA24DE engine is also a 4-banger gas efficient engine with a lot of possibilities, but I won't say it's an all-out performance engine.

lazysmurff
04-29-2004, 11:04 PM
most of those you mentioned are either huge displacement or boosted.

the h22a is fuel efficient due to its small (well, relativly) displacment, and efficient fuel system, not its performance

anything that can run a NA 10 second quarter is a pretty balls out engine.

Prelewd
04-30-2004, 12:07 AM
I'd say balls out performance engine is the VQ35DE engine (287 out of a 3.5 liter V6 with a lot of possibilities is pretty damn good), RB26DETT, LS1's, 2jz's, 4g63's (not too reliable though), and F20c's.

The C30A put 270 out of a 3.0 liter V6 engine..
The C32A put 290 out of a 3.2 liter V6 engine..

I'm glad nissan is catching up though, and making it affordable, for I love their cars.

The RB26DETT is a wonderful engine, as well as the 2JZ.

The 4g63 is the engine I was talking about in the eclipse GSX/GS-T. You know.. the one that needs to be boosted to get up to the H22A and B18C5/6/7.

I know honda engines aren't the greatest ever, but please don't say they aren't very great compared to other cars in the same class. It makes us riceboys feel bad.

publicenemy137
05-01-2004, 05:28 PM
^ the C30A and C32A's are also ripoffs, the NSX car is a hugely overinflated price for speed. 90k for a car that puts out 290 hp?? 350z costs far less than half it's price and puts out 3 less horsepower, not to mention has more torque. But yes I know NSX owners don't get it for speed only, it's the whole quality of the car, great suspension, interior, and engineering, but I still think it's a ripoff for $90k.

I left out a lot of engines designed entirely for performance, I just gave some examples. The C32 is definetly a great engine. I guess honda engines rn't bad but it's more of the car, real performance cars aren't FWD 4-bangers but some riceboys try to make it one. But whatever people do what they want with their money so I don't care, I just think it's a bad move and waist of money.

Joseph1082
05-01-2004, 06:35 PM
I'd just like to say I am sick of all the arrogant Honda owners with their over-inflated egos. I have an '02 LS! Camaro and am sick of $1K Hondas telling me they can smoke me, blah blah blah. Even a Type R in a hatch or the H22 shouldn't be able to touch me, Y can't they just be realistic about their cars... I don't go around tellin Z06, Viper, Porsche owners I can rip them... It's very immature.

publicenemy137
05-01-2004, 07:20 PM
^ exactly, be modest about your car. Don't say it's the next best thing since sliced bread. Don't say just b/c it's a honda it's the best car ever. And definetly don't try to step up to better cars and say you are faster when you have a crappy Civic.

Joseph1082
05-02-2004, 01:09 AM
When it comes to life I consider myself a realist rather than an optimist... the glass is neither half empty of half full... it is 50% fluid 50% air. Y in your right mind would you tell a car with double or over double your HP and triple your torque you ca smoke them? It's simple Math here.

Soyo
05-02-2004, 01:36 AM
They've built a plane now, the HondaJet.

Its small, slow and ugly.

Seems they've built the aviation version of the Civic.

HAHA hilarious!

I would never drive any Honda except for a motorcycle or an S2000, oh and an NSX... none of the others are FWD or AWD so they suck in my opinion...

I think everyone hates hondas for the same reasons as I do:
1. WAY TOO COMMON!!
2. People put on a muffler and think their car is fast
3. Neons seem to be popular among honda drivers
4. They are all FWD(except the 2 previously noted)
5. Too many posers have hondas

that pretty much sums it up

Steel
05-02-2004, 01:41 AM
Werd. I think for 90k, the NSX should come with a hi-po honda V8. Would that be the first production v8 honda makes?

Soyo
05-02-2004, 01:56 AM
if I were to ever stoop to the level of getting rid of my rotary and buying a V8, I deffinately would not buy one from Honda... I mean think about it... Honda=4cyl

publicenemy137
05-02-2004, 11:01 AM
Hmm i wonder why Japanese cars don't make V8s, if they can get incredible out of 2.0 inline 4s (S2k - 240 hp) and 3.2-3.5 V6s (350z - 287 hp, NSX - 290) imagine what they could do with a big block V8 engine like a 5.5. They could finally make japanese muscle n/a engine power without use of a turbo. I wonder why they do'nt just create one vehicle that does that. What is the highest hp a japanese car makes anyways?? The only one I can think on top of my head right now is the 350z, 287 hp. Or the NSX, 290 hp.

Joseph1082
05-02-2004, 01:44 PM
The technology to build a big block v8 is totally different than that used in smaller engines... that is Y we v8 owners laugh when honda owners say "120hp/Liter, ha, so if we made a 5.7L just imagine how powerful...blah blah blah" This is untrue, the enginering of the S2K motor cannot be duplicated on a larger scale, and BTW it only makes all that "Power" because it's damn redlind is at 9K. So the feat of small Jap engines cannot be duplicated in bigger blocks. And they have a few v8s, in Toyota and Lexus trucks for example. Obviously they've seen no reason to apply that motor to their Supra. To me, the Japanese believe in making power through speed rather than through strength (Revs vs. Torgue, TTs vs. V8s).

Prelewd
05-02-2004, 04:25 PM
The reason they probably don't make V8s is because they can get the same power out of an I6 or V6 or even a 4cyl. The new evo and STIs are making 300bhp from a 2 liter inline four. They have what is called a turbocharger now. That little snail shaped thing that replaces displacement...

V8s weigh too much, probably wouldn't be as reliable, and aren't as fuel efficient. You can make almost 1000hp on the stock bottom end of a 2JZ.. Why would you want a V8 in a small japanese car? Maybe if you had a lug around a big truck, and need the torque.

When it comes to life I consider myself a realist rather than an optimist... the glass is neither half empty of half full... it is 50% fluid 50% air. Y in your right mind would you tell a car with double or over double your HP and triple your torque you ca smoke them? It's simple Math here.

It's called power to weight ratio. By your logic, a 100hp motorcycle shouldn't be able to beat a 200hp car, but it will. It's simple math here.

Not to mention the money invested in either car. Sure, if you spend 50k on a 'real' sports car you will have a nicer car stock. Take the same amount of money and put it into your 3-5k used honda and you have something great (while paying less insurance). Same can be said for any old used car.

Most of the time, when people hate a certain car, they do so from the experiences they have had with the drivers of the said car. For example, there has only been one 240 owner I have ever met that hasn't been a cocky asshole. It's really disappointing. :disappoin However, I wouldn't mind owning a 240. They have much potential, and a strong aftermarket.

I bet the majority of people that trash hondas have never driven a decently modded one.

integra818
05-02-2004, 05:44 PM
I'm not saying the H22C is a bad engine, quite the opposite it's good, but it's not balls out performance designed. It's a 4-banger gas efficient engine also, which isn't a bad thing. .


If they designed it to be more "gas efficient", they would've made it an open deck engine. Your ka24 does'nt have shit agiasnt an H22. The only advantage it'll have is that it's in a RWD chassis which makes for a better launch. But then agian, an H22 in a civi will probably launch on your 240.

Prelewd
05-02-2004, 07:19 PM
If they designed it to be more "gas efficient", they would've made it an open deck engine. Your ka24 does'nt have shit agiasnt an H22. The only advantage it'll have is that it's in a RWD chassis which makes for a better launch. But then agian, an H22 in a civi will probably launch on your 240.

That's why he mentioned that his was a gas efficient engine too later on, and not a performance engine.

publicenemy137
05-02-2004, 10:18 PM
If they designed it to be more "gas efficient", they would've made it an open deck engine. Your ka24 does'nt have shit agiasnt an H22. The only advantage it'll have is that it's in a RWD chassis which makes for a better launch. But then agian, an H22 in a civi will probably launch on your 240.

I never said my KA24 was a performance engine, it's pretty much designed the same as an H22, gas efficient and low on insurance. I never said my 240 was a super-car either. I am going to be realistic and say it's slow compared to other cars, and yes even slower than an H22 in a Civic and probably in a prelude also. But I don't like Hondas anyways, 240s has more advantage than just that. It's a lot more unique and different, I see preludes and Civics everywhere, ppl who own em are lemmings. That and 240 is a much more fun car to drive, better handling, near 50/50 weight distro, and lets not forget one of the best drifters out there, something no Honda can do.

It's all preference though, Preludes and Civics with H22's are faster than my car, but I'd rather take the advantages the 240 has than just owning a Honda.

publicenemy137
05-02-2004, 10:21 PM
If they designed it to be more "gas efficient", they would've made it an open deck engine. Your ka24 does'nt have shit agiasnt an H22. The only advantage it'll have is that it's in a RWD chassis which makes for a better launch. But then agian, an H22 in a civi will probably launch on your 240.

another thing is, I can say the same. An RB26DETT in my 240 will launch anything on any honda, I don't really see where you are getting at. I never said KA24DE's were the shit

Soyo
05-02-2004, 10:29 PM
[QUOTE=Prelewd]Most of the time, when people hate a certain car, they do so from the experiences they have had with the drivers of the said car.QUOTE]

this is very true for me... like I said a lot of honda drivers seem to think they are the coolest dude with the best car or whatever, but not all are like that, just the idiots make a bad image for the rest of the honda guys.

then theres mustangs.. late 60's mustangs I love, but anything newer basically I hate... partially because they are way too common like a civic or the such. also most new mustang drivers seem to be dick heads and full of themselves, and I really dislike stuck up people and rude people and most mustang drivers I have met/talked to seem to be that way... although I will say that mustangs have the best rear end, the gears are far better than any others... even my friend with a camaro wants to put a mustang rear end in his camaro because its so good... and he hates mustangs as much if not more than me

integra818
05-02-2004, 10:32 PM
Even if it has 50/50 weight weight balance, does'nt mean it has better handling than a Civic. A Civic with 60/40 weight balance can have better handling than a 50/50 RWD car. You read Car&dDriver too much. You listed things that you think make your 240 better but they really don't mean shit.

It makes a better drifter?!? WOOWW, but look, civics have more trunk space! (sarcastic) .

A more fun car to drive? It might be more fun for you, but not more fun to me, that's just a matter of your opinion, and it's can't be taken as a fact. You might as well explain to me why red it better than blue.

Soyo
05-02-2004, 10:58 PM
you have a point that fun is opinion, but when you say a 60/40 FWD civic handles better than my 50/50 RWD rx-7 I laugh... hard! RWD handles much better than FWD which is why it is so widely used in all kinds of racing. and 50/50 weights ratio makes a car handle a lot better... its just a fact, you can't argue with facts man... you can say you like the way your FWD handles better than a RWD does but I guarantee that a RWD handles better than a FWD

publicenemy137
05-02-2004, 11:09 PM
^ yep, and being a good drifter does mean shit. It means it has great handling, great control, near 50/50 weight distribution, and a great solid chassis. To say your FWD can handle better than a 50/50 distro RWD is stupid, car and driver is probably more factual correct than whatever you are reading.

And you are right, a fun car to drive is opinion, but I am sure the vast majority would think a RWD 240sx that can corner like no other be more fun to drive than a FWD Civic that understeers.

integra818
05-03-2004, 12:02 AM
Look, you two are arguing behind a fuckin computer screen. I was at a race today where the Civic that we have on our race team is about 60/40 weight distribution, and it takes on miatas all day. a 60/40 balanced fwd car can do better than a 50/50 balanced fwd OR rwd car. For RWD, 50/50 is good, but for fwd, 50/50 is not neccasary, the driver on our team preferrs more weight on the front end and he likes to toss the rear end around, it's his driving style. What you read in motor-trend and Car&driver about 50/50 bieng perfect does'nt apply to all cars.

Soyo, laugh all you want when I say 60/40 can sometimes be better than 50/50, but what I'm laughing at is how you're acting like you know suspension setup. You can't really say RWD will handle better than fwd in every situation. If it was like that, Mustangs would outhandle Civics, but that's unlikley. And the for the opposite, fwd won't always outhandle rwd. It's like saying v8s are always better than v6s because they have more power, it does'nt mean there are'nt v6s more powerful than v8's. So pull your head out of your ass and start talkin when you know what the fuck you're talkin about you little dipshit.

BTW, I don't read what Car&driver have to say about weight balance and crap, what I talk about comes from expierience, it comes from helping build a class winning N.A.S.A Honda Challenge Civic.

50/50 means a perfect balance, but like I said, fwd with more weight based on the front can handle just as good as perfectly balanced rwd cars assuming the fwd still has a good setup. It's like saying a 300 HP car will always beat a 200 Hp car because it's more powerful, but what if the 200 hp car is much lighter???

EDIT:

Miata. RWD. 50/50 balance= .95 G's on the skidpad
Evo8. 4wd. 60/40 balance= .95 g's on the skidpad

But what went wrong? according to you, the 50/50 miata was supposed to do better than the 60/40 Evo. I guess you were wrong.

Joseph1082
05-03-2004, 12:30 AM
Obviously power to weight comes into play, but most normal street cars are within 1000lb. of each other, which is say a + or - 40% while HP varies by 200% or 300%. I do believe even w/ an H22 my LS1 will still have a better power/weight ratio than a civic hatch, so it is still illogical for the immature honda owner to get up in my face about how badass his car is.
BTW, an I6 with TWO turbos weighs about THE SAME as my ALUMINUM 350 LS1.
The days of unreliability are over, my enigne is just as reliable as yours as long as I maintain it properly.
Another acurate figure to look at would be Torque to Weight ratio, since torque is the actual force the moves the mass (weight) of the car... last time I checked, my V8's was vastly superior.

lazysmurff
05-03-2004, 01:13 AM
yup, and whats even better is i saw a test once where a camaro kept up with and beat supras, 240's and preludes on a road course. ill see if i cant find it again.

now, lets drop that ls1 into something that doesnt look like a door wedge... :D

Prelewd
05-03-2004, 01:20 AM
now, lets drop that ls1 into something that doesnt look like a door wedge... :D

..and lets see them do it with an inline 6.

I like the look of the newer camaros though.. except the nose and the side mirrors.

EDIT: and the gawdy interior.

publicenemy137
05-03-2004, 11:02 AM
^ yea the interior is very cheap in American cars sports car (well F-bodies and mustangs) which I don't like at all. My friend's firebirds and camaros have plastic ugly interiors, very cheap lookin.

Anyways domestics will be faster than imports fully modded, I don't like to admit this either but they are. You say small engines have turbo to match their V8 engines, but they can be boosted also. My friend goes to this track all the time in Flordia, where the richest people are. The fastest cars are domestics, they had a Corvette made out of fiberglass and ran 6s in the 1/4 mile. Last week he said he saw a mustang and firebird go at it, the firebird got 7.3 secs while the mustang got a 7.0 flat. The firebird had a 700ci engine in it. They only have domestic cars there that go this fast, the fastest import there was recorded at 8.8 seconds, which was accomplished by a Supra. There really is no replacement for displacement.

But I really don't care because I don't want a car that fast, 12 seconds and I'm happy. An import can accomplish that without too much effort, plus I like the styling of it a lot more than domestics, generally has better handling (than the F-bodies, and stangs), and I don't know American cars has a cheap feeling to me. Like someone else said, American cars are "cheap hp." They have the best value for speed, but they lack in other areas. Cheap interiors, engines that don't last as long (yes I know they can last long joseph, but if you visit import vs domestic forums, the american car owners have a lot more problems still and don't last as long). And I dunno, when I get in an American car and drive one, it doesn't feel the same as my Nissan. I can't control it as well and doesn't seem like I'm one with my car, my sis agrees, she calls it a "toy car." But it's all opinion, when you want to feel speed it definetly gets that accomplished. And I'm sure others think American cars are much more fun to drive than imports just b/c it has a big V8 engine rumble with speed. It all just depends which each person

Joseph1082
05-03-2004, 03:37 PM
But Prelewd, you can't admit that it is true, a v8 will always be better? Today they are just as ligght as I6 TTs, just as powerful, more Torque, more displacement (for which there is no replacement), higher top speeds. My car weighs about the same as a Supra might be a few lighter, has more Torque, more power.
I like to "feel" my power, like neck-snapping, rather than drive an S2K where it is all rev power, but I guess that is personal taste... but now waht if my LS1 redline at 9K, I'd still be snapping my neck off the line, and my peak HP would be 525!!!
I don't think my car is CHEAP. The interior in Integras, 240s, Civics, are all pretty much the same, if not cheaper!!! I've sat in all these to know. The only car that might have a better interior is a Supra, but with a $40K price tag it better, and I know the Vette has a much nicer interior than my camaro... you get what you pay for!

integra818
05-03-2004, 03:43 PM
Torque is overrated. Torque is nothing without RPM.

lazysmurff
05-03-2004, 05:29 PM
what if import car makers (lets keep in mind, imports dont just come from japan) used the same effeciency as they do now, but had 350 CI to play around with. could you imagine the 350 that honda would put out? my right foot is itching at the thought.

publicenemy137
05-03-2004, 06:14 PM
^ they aren't going to, and like joseph said, dynamics are different. If it wasn't different then they would have made a V8 with tons of hp by now. I think 240 interiors are nice, a lot nicer than my friend's camaro. I like how the vents are on the side of the doors, and the dash is slopin with the center console. All for a very cockpit-sleek feel. The material is also high quality vinyl.

The F-bodies the material is all plastic and cheap, and there's really no design also. It's just there to get the job done. And civic interiors suck, cheap cars anyways you can't compare. INtegra's are nice

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