Why did GM stop making the Fiero?


Elk
03-09-2004, 03:17 AM
So what is the real reason (reasons) they stopped making them?

EnjukuRacing240sx
03-10-2004, 12:05 PM
i heard from a reliable source that the real erason why gm discontinued the feiro was because the newest one (90 or 91) it was supposed to beat the hell outta the corvette, so gm shut it down

gsxrbobby
03-10-2004, 02:18 PM
All car makers like to go racing, its great for car sales. The Fiero having a mid engine car didn't match up with any other cars made other than Ferrari and Lambo's. Not much of a match up.
In the later 80's most makers where looking at making all cars FWD.
The sales were somewhat down due to what happened to the 84 fire thing.
It was built to be sold as a low cost lil sports car, but to be able to sell it and have it a good running car, they started to do upgrades in 88 but the cost of the car had to go up.
They dropped it and started to look else where, the Grand Prix and the Monte Carlo went to FWD. And so did alot or should I say most of them.
The Camero and the Firebird will most likely come back FWD or AWD. But with them making the GTO RWD there is some hope to save the car!

Jehu
03-11-2004, 08:36 PM
I'm kinda sad about the new GTO, but like you said It keeps rear weels turning. I think a AWD Firebird would kick if they built it right ... none of that has to do with the Fiero going out of production, but it would be fun if they brought it back as a concept in the higher end sports car range.

gsxrbobby
03-11-2004, 08:56 PM
I was just showing there thinking or so I was told. It would be hard to make a FWD mid engine car, and stupid to do so!

Jehu
03-11-2004, 11:43 PM
Sorry bobby. I ment that none of the first part of what I said had anything ot do with the Fiero... not that what you said about front weel drive was irrelivant. If ya read it that way I sound like an arrogent jack.

gsxrbobby
03-12-2004, 12:08 AM
NO,NO, really racing is a big factor on how cars are made and what cars are made. Like the late 80's Monte Carlo when they put the bubble back window in, it was so they could use that in Nascar or the Dodge trucks big truck looking hood is so they have a more aero style hood for the truck races, and all the cars with the fake factory air scoops and vents are so they can use real ones with some of the other race series.
Thats where I was going with that.

Indy-1
03-12-2004, 02:45 PM
All car makers like to go racing, its great for car sales. The Fiero having a mid engine car didn't match up with any other cars made other than Ferrari and Lambo's. Not much of a match up.
In the later 80's most makers where looking at making all cars FWD.
The sales were somewhat down due to what happened to the 84 fire thing.
It was built to be sold as a low cost lil sports car, but to be able to sell it and have it a good running car, they started to do upgrades in 88 but the cost of the car had to go up.
They dropped it and started to look else where, the Grand Prix and the Monte Carlo went to FWD. And so did alot or should I say most of them.
The Camero and the Firebird will most likely come back FWD or AWD. But with them making the GTO RWD there is some hope to save the car!

Not sure where you got that info from but for the most part it is not true. The guys in the Corvette division were getting upset because the Fiero was getting better and better each year and Corvette had yet to turn a profit, so it didn't help when the upstart Fiero came along which was kinda like the poor mans vette. It also hurt sales for the Vette as it was at least half the cost of the Vette. One day Hulki (Fiero engineer) and a few of his guys took one of their Fiero prototypes out on the race strip with a new vette and secretly raced them. The Fiero blew the doors off the Vette. Sadly, they were seen doing this and it got back to the Vette devision. The pressure to kill the Fiero from the Vette division especially after that little incident was very fierce, and coincidently at the same time GM had a lot of upper management turnover and so the Vette guys along with a few other factors helped get the Fiero killed.
This is all confirmed by Hulki, the head Fiero engineer and the father of the Fiero, who has been to a few Fiero shows and has done question/answer during the show banquets. I have one of these all on video from the HUGE Fiero 20th Anniversary show last year in Pontiac MI that he and his former boss during the Fiero production years Parki attended.
Just wanted to clear up some of the misinformation that is still floating around abouty this subject.

Steve

nbw
03-12-2004, 04:21 PM
its nice to pretend what kinds of bad ass cars GM would have if the corvette wasnt around. It seems that everytime I read about a sports car under GM there is some history about it being toned down to not compete with the vette... :disappoin

Indy-1
03-12-2004, 08:08 PM
its nice to pretend what kinds of bad ass cars GM would have if the corvette wasnt around. It seems that everytime I read about a sports car under GM there is some history about it being toned down to not compete with the vette... :disappoin

Uhm, OK whatever.
Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction ;)

Old Lar
03-12-2004, 10:49 PM
Pontiac stopped making the Fiero because GM set a sales goal of 50,000 units for 1988. Then their wisdom took over and gave no funding for marketing the car. It sold only 20,000+ 1988 models. The car by 1988 had developed a bad reputation by then, for the 84 versions had many catasrophic engine failures ie bad press.

The brass at GM determined that there was no market for a two passenger car and the Fiero replacement was to be that Korean POS Lemans for an econmy driver.


Auto manufacturing is about the numbers of sales.

Indy-1
03-13-2004, 09:02 AM
Pontiac stopped making the Fiero because GM set a sales goal of 50,000 units for 1988. Then their wisdom took over and gave no funding for marketing the car. It sold only 20,000+ 1988 models. The car by 1988 had developed a bad reputation by then, for the 84 versions had many catasrophic engine failures ie bad press.

The brass at GM determined that there was no market for a two passenger car and the Fiero replacement was to be that Korean POS Lemans for an econmy driver.


Auto manufacturing is about the numbers of sales.

Some of that is partly true as part of the other elements that helped get it killed, but you can't use this as the major factor for the simple reason that the decision to kill the Fiero was done very early in the year "before" any kind of sales numbers could be generated. The "bean counter" excuse and first year engine failures are not the main reasons of why it was killed. In fact, of all the things I have heard from those who truly know like Parki and Hulki, they have never mentioned the engine problems from '84 as any reason for why it was killed. They have always said that it was first and foremost pressure by others within GM, and with all the turmoil going on in the mid 80's within GM the Fiero was able to sadly get killed instead of being allowed to grow a little and see what transpired like they did with the Vette. The bean counter excuse and the no market for a two seater doesn't even make sense as they had the Corvette and that hadn't produced ONE year of profit yet and it was a two seater. The Fiero had turned a profit every year thru '87 and recieved a lot awards for design, safety, mill and drill structure, and using the "plastic" panels, etc. If the no profit and no market for two seater argument was true, then the Corvette that had actually lost money every year and was a much more expensive car to produce woiuld have been killed as well.
Also remember that GM allowed the Fieros suspension to be completely revamped for the '88 model year costing millions of dollars and then it was killed before they could even begin to get any kind of a return on their investment.

MagicRat
03-17-2004, 08:00 PM
Sure, the downturn in sales were a big factor, but there were some other reasons, too.
GM needed the Fiero factory space to make another model of car that would have higher sales, thus using the factory, the staff etc would make more money for the company.
GM has done this elsewhere when they canned the RWD Caprice, Roadmaster and Fleetwood. They used that Texas factory to make pick up trucks, a more profitable item.
Also, Toyota's MR2 was a better car, at least in the media reviews. (Road & Track and Car and Driver both said so in 1988) GM did not want to spend the $$$ to compete in a relatively small market.

frogger1971
03-18-2004, 02:17 PM
I have no official info. However, I am in the process of buying my first Fiero. EVERY SINGLE friend I have told this too (gear head or not) have all come back saying "Why would you want one of those. Don't they burst in flames? Didn't they have a lot of recalls and reliability problems". If this is the way people react 15+ years later I can't imagine what it was like when the problems were in the current news.

I am not daunted. I still want one. I cannot wait to get the one I am buying. Reading all of the fanmail on forums like this allow me to dispell any of these comments.

Tom

Rinwo
03-19-2004, 01:14 PM
Tell them "What did the five fingers say to the face?" then smack them upside the head.... hand them the keys and let the drive it once or twice, and they'll shut their mouths :biggrin2:

LoW_KeY
03-20-2004, 02:27 AM
I've heard rumors and a bunch of them, yeah I'm disappointed they quit making it. We know some of the truth from the 20th show, but whats done is done.. GM is known for killing, only those who drive and own one will truely know its a fun car :smokin:

burst into flames.. that'll never end, but mine makes a funny noise when I go :lol2: woo hoo!! (http://cryptnix.com/KC/fiero%203800sc%200-100.MPG)

Wren84F
03-30-2004, 03:56 PM
Any chance GM would consider bringing back the fiero? It seems to have a ton of fans. So far my 84 Fiero has been the most reliable car that I've ever owned. Unfortunatly my wife had a 91 Mercury Sable (BOOO!) when we got married and we've had nothing but trouble with it. Water pump died, alternater died, head gasket blew, Tranny is toast ect ect ect. And my Fiero still runs good as new.

Ragtop_Renegade
04-03-2004, 06:52 PM
Any chance GM would consider bringing back the fiero? It seems to have a ton of fans.

So do the Camaro and Firebird. Look where they are now.
Cars are about sales. If it doesn't sell, replace it.
Personally, I can't stand today's choice of hybrid crap-box or tank sized SUV, but enough people must because they're out there in full force.
--------
As for the Corvette division helping to kill the Fiero, it doesn't makes sense. People who can afford a Corvette aren't going to pick a Fiero instead. (ever see someone famous driving a Geo Metro? No way!)
The corvette is an elite car for an elite driver. While sales may not be as high as the Fiero, 9 out of 10 corvette owners probably by a second GM product for a family vehicle.

Indy-1
04-03-2004, 10:36 PM
I have no official info. However, I am in the process of buying my first Fiero. EVERY SINGLE friend I have told this too (gear head or not) have all come back saying "Why would you want one of those. Don't they burst in flames? Didn't they have a lot of recalls and reliability problems". If this is the way people react 15+ years later I can't imagine what it was like when the problems were in the current news.

I am not daunted. I still want one. I cannot wait to get the one I am buying. Reading all of the fanmail on forums like this allow me to dispell any of these comments.

Tom

Whenever you here silly clueless comments like "Didn't they burst into flames?" or "Didn't they have recall problems?" you should immediatly think Star Trek.
Why Star Trek?
Question: Who was Captain Kirks First Officer?
Why Dr. Spock of course :banghead:
See what I mean?
People sometimes only know what has been repeated to them. If they hear it wrong and take it as fact, then guess what happens when they are wa=lking along and they see a Fiero and say to the friend walking next to them what they heard. Now that you can picture that, think about this. Remember the old kindergarden game where you have a bunch of kids all in a big circle and you whisper something to the first kid and then they pass it on? When it finally reaches the last kid in the circle is it still even pretty close to what it was as it started out with the first kid?
See what I mean?
Yes that news certainly didn't help any during the first years of the Fieros life, but now after 15+ years of being told, retold and more times than not told incorrectly to begin with, just think how badly warped and incorrect the info has gotten over the years.
Knowwhatimean?

Ragtop_Renegade
04-03-2004, 10:55 PM
Yes that news certainly didn't help any during the first years of the Fieros life, but now after 15+ years of being told, retold and more times than not told incorrectly to begin with, just think how badly warped and incorrect the info has gotten over the years.
Knowwhatimean?

Exactly. The first time I ever saw a Fiero I asked someone about it and they told me "there shouldn't be any left on the road" because "they would blow up" and therefore GM "recalled every Fiero ever made" and that "they were all supposed to be crushed"

It's amazing how a few reported engine fires on the '84, mostly the fault of the owners for not maintaing the cars properly, could evolve into what I just typed above.

Witte
10-23-2004, 05:37 PM
Yeah, I know.. Dead thread, perhaps, but seriously:

Would there be a good reason for GM to bring back the Fiero? Technology has lept forward and it would probably be more simple to work with marketing and producing it now rather than in the future. Several articles I have read (and what I've seen and heard of Fieros) have said that in the '88 year Fieros were finally getting to the standards level of a true 'performance car'.

Give it a more fuel efficient engine (plus the option for a bigger one) and make it less of a pain in the butt to work on then it'd be worthwhile for people to buy. Lower the top for more style (and a smaller angle for the windshield) and get rid of the extra wheel well space (kinda made it look like a hot-wheels car). Keep the verticle rear window and the same sides that link into the rear and keep the 4 pipes.. Different grills (tighter maybe?) and keep the hood and the front inlaid turn-signals. Something like these:
V-8 Archie's Chop-Top Fiero (http://www.v8archie.com/choptop.htm)

Just a few thoughts.. Tell me if I'm way off :-P. *needs to get someone to work on a 3d version of the Fiero and then make some changes..*

MrPbody
10-28-2004, 01:32 PM
Well, since I've followed Fiero from the beginning, even if the thread IS dead, I have to have MY say...
As with the "fire" problem, the end pf production is also completely blown out of proportion and full of assumptions and myth.
I first read of the car in a 1979 Motor Trend article on "Pontiac's new commuter car". John Z. had put the idea on paper before he left GM. It was an experiment in manufacturing techniques. The original goal was to sell at least 20,000 cars the first year. There was a 5-year production plan. No models to be produced after that. They were testing the feasability of the "space frame" and robotic assembly. It took 2,000 workers the same amount of time to produce the same number of cars it would normally take 20,000 workers to build. It was all to assess the Saturn project. It was an overwhelming success. In truth, they sold about five times as many as they thought they would.
The fire problem came from defective connecting rods Pontiac sent back to Rochester TWICE. GM sent them back, insisting they were to be used. These were for the 2.5 only. When the oil would run low (smaller oil pan to fit in the chassis), it would blow the rod through the block, spewing oil on to the hot converter. Instant fireball! I believe there were 34 such incidents reported. The "fix" was not to replace the rods, as it should have been. It was to put a metal shield in between the block and the exhaust, so that WHEN the rod broke, the oil wouldn't hit the converter. Chevy had significant influence in the refusal to replace the rods. The '84 Corvette HAD to succeed. That was the reason there was no 6 cylinder car the first year, as well.
The little P-body is an awesome car. It was, at the time, the only American car ever built to Swedish safety standards, for rollover and impact resistance. The car is a tank! I t-boned a '94 Ford Exploder when a 16 year old kid pulled right out in front of me. It did wipe out the Fiero. Too bad, too. I really liked that one. But the kid had to climb over the seat and kick the passenger side rear door open to get out. The frame and body were "sprung" beyond hope. The doors on the P-body still worked fine. The front end was destroyed. I got a bit of whip-lash (cervical sprain), but was otherwise unhurt. Pontiac, 1. Ford, 0.
I knew a girl in Tucson several years ago. She was sitting in the middle of an intersection, waiting to turn left, whne an International dump truck (with a load) lost its brakes coming down the hill. He literally ran up over the Fiero. She could see the oil pan of the truck through her sunroof. It bent the Fiero badly, but again, the driver's door worked, and all she got was a couple cuts on her arm from the glass flying out of the passenger window (where the truck hit hard). Had she been in a Caddy or Lexus, she would have been squashed like a bug.
That's all. I could say more, but I see no need. What a car! I just aquired another one (have an '86 GT and now, an '88 GT).

Ragtop_Renegade
10-28-2004, 10:35 PM
Just a little history here, since we're on the subject. The original idea for the Fiero, originally named "check out this car I drew" (k, I made that part up, it didn't have a name) came from Mr. GTO himself, John DeLorean, In 1967. A mid engine car with a steel space frame and a plastic body that could be easily changed from model year to model year as desired. Unfortunatly, the next generation Corvette was behind schedule and eating up budget like crazy in the process, and poor sales from the Corvair line seemed to indicate Americans disliked anything that didn't have a traditional front engine. So, with the companies flagship supercar falling apart on the drawing board, and no extra money to spare for crazy new plastic cars with a driveline design that history said was a sales failure, the idea was laughed off and stuffed in a file cabinet, not to be seen again until 1979. By this time, of course, our friend Mr DeLorean was busy doing other things (if you have to ask what, you've obviously never seen Back to the Future)

leadfoot411
11-16-2004, 06:02 PM
I had a Fiero for 14 years and it never busted into flames; sometimes I think it was an urban legend; Im driving a tiburon now; but I get misty eyed when I think of my ole Fiero.

uummm
02-25-2005, 06:03 PM
i know this has nothing to do with fiero's but i know that the camaro was discontinued, but was the firebird as well, and killing off american muscle just brings a tear to my eye, now the only pony car left is the mustang, and they have a decent motor in it, but no big block, what is america comin to?

coop8267
02-25-2005, 09:20 PM
i would love to see the fiero come back as a high end sports car. and i know the perfect platform to build it from. the Vauxhall VX220/Opel speedster http://vauxhall.co.uk/showroom/search/brand.jhtml?brand=VX220&vehicleType=Car http://www.europe.opel.com/brand_sites/speedster/uk/en/home/index.html its opel in Europe and Vauxhall only in the UK. awesome little car.

fierangero
02-26-2005, 12:34 PM
that car is so ugly...

coop8267
02-28-2005, 01:26 PM
that car is so ugly...
hahaha. whatever dude. you need to get your eyes checked.

SniperX13
02-28-2005, 02:20 PM
remember, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and not everyone see's everything as others do.

beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Just because you or I find it very attractive vehicle, doesnt mean 40-50 random people off the streets would.

84fiero123
02-28-2005, 08:21 PM
Well, since I've followed Fiero from the beginning, even if the thread IS dead, I have to have MY say...
As with the "fire" problem, the end pf production is also completely blown out of proportion and full of assumptions and myth.
I first read of the car in a 1979 Motor Trend article on "Pontiac's new commuter car". John Z. had put the idea on paper before he left GM. It was an experiment in manufacturing techniques. The original goal was to sell at least 20,000 cars the first year. There was a 5-year production plan. No models to be produced after that. They were testing the feasability of the "space frame" and robotic assembly. It took 2,000 workers the same amount of time to produce the same number of cars it would normally take 20,000 workers to build. It was all to assess the Saturn project. It was an overwhelming success. In truth, they sold about five times as many as they thought they would.
The fire problem came from defective connecting rods Pontiac sent back to Rochester TWICE. GM sent them back, insisting they were to be used. These were for the 2.5 only. When the oil would run low (smaller oil pan to fit in the chassis), it would blow the rod through the block, spewing oil on to the hot converter. Instant fireball! I believe there were 34 such incidents reported. The "fix" was not to replace the rods, as it should have been. It was to put a metal shield in between the block and the exhaust, so that WHEN the rod broke, the oil wouldn't hit the converter. Chevy had significant influence in the refusal to replace the rods. The '84 Corvette HAD to succeed. That was the reason there was no 6 cylinder car the first year, as well.
The little P-body is an awesome car. It was, at the time, the only American car ever built to Swedish safety standards, for rollover and impact resistance. The car is a tank! I t-boned a '94 Ford Exploder when a 16 year old kid pulled right out in front of me. It did wipe out the Fiero. Too bad, too. I really liked that one. But the kid had to climb over the seat and kick the passenger side rear door open to get out. The frame and body were "sprung" beyond hope. The doors on the P-body still worked fine. The front end was destroyed. I got a bit of whip-lash (cervical sprain), but was otherwise unhurt. Pontiac, 1. Ford, 0.
I knew a girl in Tucson several years ago. She was sitting in the middle of an intersection, waiting to turn left, whne an International dump truck (with a load) lost its brakes coming down the hill. He literally ran up over the Fiero. She could see the oil pan of the truck through her sunroof. It bent the Fiero badly, but again, the driver's door worked, and all she got was a couple cuts on her arm from the glass flying out of the passenger window (where the truck hit hard). Had she been in a Caddy or Lexus, she would have been squashed like a bug.
That's all. I could say more, but I see no need. What a car! I just aquired another one (have an '86 GT and now, an '88 GT).
i worked for gm from 73 to 89-90 these cars where the made as a proto for saturn and thats all they are a great little car for someone who has them. i also have a gmc suburban, ford f150, and 2 full size vans, they all have a purpose, suv's are not an option, they are just a yuppie who doesnt want to say he drives a truck. i drive trucks, and i drive the fiero when i can. love the little bugger, so does my 43 year old wife and 16 year old daughter. its agreat little car as long as you don't need to carry to much. when i do i drive the appropriate truck.

Black Lotus
03-01-2005, 09:13 PM
that car is so ugly...
Haha!
I tend to agree with you. And it really is a Lotus Elise also, isn't it.
Frankly, I've never liked the looks the looks of an Elise, especially compared to my Fiero or my Lotus Esprit. Looks like an overstyled goblin-mobile. Really kind of freakish.
The Fiero has elegant styling. My Esprit is intimidating looking (IMO). The Elise is just bad taste wrapped around superb and clever engineering.
At the local Lotus dealership they coerced me into a demo model after objections on my part.
When I stepped out, the Elise looked a LOT better ;) !
Still hasn't got the simple beauty of the Fiero, but it's just bearable now.

fierangero
03-04-2005, 01:00 PM
if fiero was a prototype for saturn, why isnt saturn making Midship engine cars? thaat would be much better than the junk that passes for cars nowadays...the Sky looks pretty good tho

MrPbody
03-04-2005, 02:26 PM
It wasn't the car itself, GM used Fiero to prototype for Saturn, it was the manufacturing techniques and materials. FWIW Saturn is, dollar for dollar, the highest quality car on the planet. That is, frequency of repair, versus intial cost. We build the odd one now and then, for the "performance" crowd (anti-Honda guys), and see a worn out '91 or '92 once in a while, but overall, we never see the engines. A friend in the transmission business says the same. After 15 model years, they're still going... Talk about your energizer bunny...
And style aside, most of the modern cars, at least American, Japanese and German, are far better than they have ever been. I have no use for Japanese cars myself, but am not stupid about them. Toyota and Honda are excellent cars. Some of the Nissan and Mazda offerings are okay, too. I know a few happy Subaru owners, but not as many as unhappy ones. Same is true of Suzuki and Isuzu.
I've even been getting reports of modern Chrysler poroducts going over 100K without needing a transmission! Rare, but it happens! Hard to argue with GM and Ford, though. Better than ever, from a repair point of view.
Whether or not one LIKES the cars is another matter entirely. Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder...

fierangero
03-04-2005, 03:11 PM
saturns are. for the most part, reliable. until you get in a crash. my friend was in a fairly low speed accident, his car was totaled. thats not as bad as volkswagens tho, a friend got into a 15 mph fender bender and his front end was destroyed completely. gah.

coop8267
03-07-2005, 06:35 PM
Haha!
I tend to agree with you. And it really is a Lotus Elise also, isn't it.
Frankly, I've never liked the looks the looks of an Elise, especially compared to my Fiero or my Lotus Esprit. Looks like an overstyled goblin-mobile. Really kind of freakish.
The Fiero has elegant styling. My Esprit is intimidating looking (IMO). The Elise is just bad taste wrapped around superb and clever engineering.
At the local Lotus dealership they coerced me into a demo model after objections on my part.
When I stepped out, the Elise looked a LOT better ;) !
Still hasn't got the simple beauty of the Fiero, but it's just bearable now.
nah its not an elise too. lotus isnt tied to opel/vauxhall. lotus is owned by ford, while opel/vauxhall is owned by gm.

fierangero
03-08-2005, 12:35 AM
holy old threads batman!

rawr256
03-13-2005, 06:19 AM
From what I understand the Fiero was killed off partly because of a bad reputation. There were issues with the suspension, overheating, etc. and news spreads fast. As for the bette division trying to kill it off, wouldn't surprise me. We all know who John Delorean is and what kind of cars he designed (GTO and helped participate in making Firebird but only because he was forced). Shortly after John had created the GTO he designed another engine to put in a car similar to the GTO, he codenamed it "The Banshee". Was suppose to be a big beefed up engine but because GM wanted to competion for their Corvette they told him no go. Later after he left and the rest is history.

I have been told that if you drop a chevy 350 in a 87/88 fiero it would blow the doors off a vette the same year or even a couple after, maybe even todays. I have seen tons of Fiero's that people put 3800 SC engines in and they keep up with the new vettes with 0 - 60 and with the 1/4 mile. Pretty slick, especially for it being an old, but unique design.

I could understand sales also haveing a lot to do with it (how often do you see the fieros around as it is?). My dad just bought a 87 GT from his step brother and his brother didn't want to sell. He had it sitting underneath a tree for the past 5 years collecting gunk and mildew. When we got it spent a good day cleaning up EVERYTHING in the car, still have to rebuild the engine though from it being seized up from sitting.

None the less, they probably were fun, unique, and probably even underrated cars.

57JagXKSS
03-13-2005, 07:26 AM
have you guys checked out Pontiac's new sports car?

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=377526

fierangero
03-13-2005, 12:36 PM
issues with the suspension? like how? the fiero is one of if not the best handling GM products...

PS why have we resurrected this topic yet again

Black Lotus
03-13-2005, 08:33 PM
nah its not an elise too. lotus isnt tied to opel/vauxhall. lotus is owned by ford, while opel/vauxhall is owned by gm.
Never heard of Opel Omega and Vauxhall Carlton?
Lotus is now owned by Proton , out of Malaysia.
GM Europe owned Lotus outright for about 10 years.
Who do you think designed the ZR-1 Corvette engine?

coop8267
03-14-2005, 06:49 PM
ford was lookin into buyin lotus from proton i though they did it already.

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