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Turbocharging the LeSabre engine


sega
03-07-2004, 10:00 PM
is it possible, and practical, to turbocharge the lesabre engine? i know the park ave has one, but can you do it yourself or must you swap the engines? im dont know much about cars but i know the engine is similar to the mid 90's f bodies, and i know they can be twin turbos, so that is what im basing this on. i love buick and especially my lesabre, but im 20yrs old, and i want to roll up to all these punks in neons and civics and show them what my granny car has.

tman
03-08-2004, 06:15 AM
first off, the park ave gets a supercharger, not a turbo. turbo uses exhaust gases, and is difficult to do in a fwd car, because the turbo should be as closeto the engine as possible, to get the highest exhaust flows. A supercharger is and additional member to the accessory drive belt. If you want to beat them, get a Regal GS. Park avenue motor, lighter, and more sporty.

Hypsi87
03-08-2004, 03:43 PM
The Regal GS is nice I want one for my next daily driver. I would get one of new regals. Or another GN, Im not sure :icon16:

joemathews
03-10-2004, 12:33 AM
I think turbocharging a lesabre is a very bad idea. It's your car, and your money, but you'll be spending around $2000 probably, when in fact you could sell the lesabre, save the 2k, and buy a naturally aspirated car that would still be faster than a turbo lesabre. (I'm thinking an integra gs-r, prelude vtec, etc.) Just my 2 cents

ChevyCelebrity
05-26-2004, 02:10 AM
I know the new Monte Carlo's have a supercharged 3.8 in them... but that's about all I know. You don't need to turbo your 3.8 to beat the plastic Neon's and Honda's however. They have what, a 1.9 liter? Your 3.8 does just fine, I'm sure. I'd leave your car the way it is. If you take care of it it will probably last forever.

tman
05-26-2004, 02:15 AM
I've taken a VTEC accord before w/ a 10 year old park avenue, the guy's excuse- (I forgot to turn the VTEC on!) I hate stupid people.

mstngcobrasvt98
05-29-2004, 12:00 AM
don't even bother trying it. I went up against a 89 Nissan Sentra turbo and just spanked him. And my car is a 92 and i had alot of crap in it.

tman
05-29-2004, 10:28 PM
People think buicks are slow, until we beat them!

matt919
05-30-2004, 09:24 PM
the power in a Buick is under appreciated by far.

_J_
06-04-2004, 08:02 PM
intense racing has a turbo kit. i don't think its available yet, and its marketed towards l36 and l37 3800 engines in pontiacs. check it out under 'turbo project'

http://www.intense-racing.com/

tman
06-04-2004, 11:59 PM
Why would they put a wheelie bar on a FWD car!

mstngcobrasvt98
06-08-2004, 11:12 PM
that is sick...670HP from the 3800...I wish mine did that

pirho451
07-08-2004, 11:49 AM
There's a guy in another forum I follow that has done a 3800SC swap into a '91 Park Avenue (he also does crazy stuff like putting a 3800SC Series II in a Chevy Citation and a 4.9V8, also in a Citation)

http://tyre.serveftp.com/supercharged_parkavenue/

tman
07-08-2004, 12:51 PM
The Ultra in 1991 either did not have the supercharged engine, or it was an option seperate of the Ultra package, I'm pretty sure it wasn't available in 91. 96 got the Series II 3800 in sedan, SC in ultra, these engines, and the Northstars will fit in any 91-96 park ave.

pirho451
07-08-2004, 12:54 PM
The Ultra in 1991 either did not have the supercharged engine, or it was an option seperate of the Ultra package, I'm pretty sure it wasn't available in 91. 96 got the Series II 3800 in sedan, SC in ultra, these engines, and the Northstars will fit in any 91-96 park ave.

You're right, I don't think the 3800SC was available in '91. What this guy did was swap a '95 3800SC into a '91 Park Avenue base model.

Hypsi87
07-08-2004, 12:57 PM
the power in a Buick is under appreciated by far.


amen revernd!!!

tman
07-08-2004, 01:35 PM
pirho, 92-95 had the same supercharged engine in the Ultra trim, 95 was an odd year, series II in sedan, Series I SC in ultra. What's the HP and torque of the Series I SC?

pirho451
07-09-2004, 12:41 PM
I'm honestly not sure. You can ask the guy who did the swap; he can provide a lot more information about this than I can. He's got a site documenting the swap.

http://tyre.serveftp.com/supercharged_parkavenue/

Kid_Buick_98&84
07-10-2004, 10:22 PM
don't even bother trying it. I went up against a 89 Nissan Sentra turbo and just spanked him. And my car is a 92 and i had alot of crap in it.

Yeah , i have a '98 and toasted an eclipse, and i only have a 3800, the buick lesabre is a peppy car with plenty of power.

tman
07-11-2004, 01:15 AM
I raced a punk in a V6 camaro today, he had him and 3 friends in the car, my park avenue was empty, and had a 1/4 tank of fuel, so I was as light as I was gonna get. I'm just sitting there, singing along with Toby kieth on the stereo at a red light, camaro drives up, turns on some loud rap music, his speakers sounded half blown, Toby kieth's "Whiskey Girl, sounds awesome full blast on Concert Sound II, so I cranked it up, turned off the A/C, just in case. Lights goes green, and I actually got him off the line, and pulled away from him to about 70, then let off, tapped my brake lights a few times, and patted the car on the A-pillar. Punks rode by and flipped me off. Not my fault he underestimated a stock Park Avenue, now is it?

Hypsi87
07-11-2004, 03:37 AM
I raced a punk in a V6 camaro today, he had him and 3 friends in the car, my park avenue was empty, and had a 1/4 tank of fuel, so I was as light as I was gonna get. I'm just sitting there, singing along with Toby kieth on the stereo at a red light, camaro drives up, turns on some loud rap music, his speakers sounded half blown, Toby kieth's "Whiskey Girl, sounds awesome full blast on Concert Sound II, so I cranked it up, turned off the A/C, just in case. Lights goes green, and I actually got him off the line, and pulled away from him to about 70, then let off, tapped my brake lights a few times, and patted the car on the A-pillar. Punks rode by and flipped me off. Not my fault he underestimated a stock Park Avenue, now is it?


I had a similar encounter, only it was with a 2002 SS and AC/DC was on my consert sound II speakers

tman
07-11-2004, 11:16 AM
Concert Sound II is an awesome stock speaker system, better than some aftermarket systems.

-Josh-
07-11-2004, 12:50 PM
Even the concert sound 1 i have in my t-type sounds good.. well it did until i replaced it with aftermarket kenwood speakers. :eek:

sweetmel83
07-14-2004, 10:50 PM
I raced a punk in a V6 camaro today, he had him and 3 friends in the car, my park avenue was empty, and had a 1/4 tank of fuel, so I was as light as I was gonna get. I'm just sitting there, singing along with Toby kieth on the stereo at a red light, camaro drives up, turns on some loud rap music, his speakers sounded half blown, Toby kieth's "Whiskey Girl, sounds awesome full blast on Concert Sound II, so I cranked it up, turned off the A/C, just in case. Lights goes green, and I actually got him off the line, and pulled away from him to about 70, then let off, tapped my brake lights a few times, and patted the car on the A-pillar. Punks rode by and flipped me off. Not my fault he underestimated a stock Park Avenue, now is it?



I too had a similar encounter except that it was probably 99 mustang 6 cylinder. It was great I had just gotten my 92 LeSabre and all my friends were laughing it up until I lined up with one of them at a red light and got him off the line and just kept pulling away. Except instead of Toby Keith I was probably listening to a little Kenny Chesney. :naughty:

I'm new to this site, just looking around and thought I would reply to this one.

Melanie

_J_
07-21-2004, 08:11 PM
I think the 3800 is a great engine in terms of power and effeciency. My 2001 is a heavy car no doubt, but it moves off the line well.

I raced some kid in a modified Mitsubishi Lancer at a redlight, and killed him. It was so bad, I slowed down so he could catch up! Most cars seem to be standing still when they do their 1-2 shift and I fly past them. Soon after, the LeSabre is in 2nd and pulling hard.

Another time, on 300mi trip, I had this car cruising at 80-90mph (I know, slow down!), and got 33mph! At these speeds, it still has passing power. Normally, I drive slow, but every now and then you have to
let it loose.

With the price of gas so high, I love the fuel mileage and power. I think the supercharged engines need premium unleaded ( I could be wrong here). That would be expensive around here.

I too like the Concert stereo. The sound when using the manual settings is terrible, but on 'pop', 'c&w', or 'jazz' it rocks.

tman
07-22-2004, 01:19 AM
The SC engine can account for different fuel grades, but will be most powerful on premium.

dcmtnbkr
07-26-2004, 01:57 PM
I've got a 97 and once it gets up, it goes. My question, however, is this. Every once in a while, when shifting, such as on an on ramp, or in a race, my car lurches a bit. I have a friend that owns a bonneville that does the same thing, but he said his has allways been like that. Any ideas? And i know what you guys mean, this car definately has all the power it need within the 3800 series II, so why turbo or supercharge it? If you want to make it faster, lighten it up somehow, maybe racing seats? I dont know, but dont bother modding it.

tman
07-26-2004, 04:46 PM
Why modify, as opposed to lighten? Heres my reasoning:

Racing seat- yes, its lighter, but the Buick seats are much more comfortable for daily driving.

Removing backseat- Works good, until someone wants to ride with you.

Removing the radio- Listening to the whistle of the wind outside gets boring. Fast.

remove spare tire, add a can of Fix-A-Flat- The spare tire is often functional in sustaining a rear impact. removing it weakens the rear of the car, and increases the risk of a ruptured fuel tank in a collision.

I also carry a box of supplies(jumpercables, oil, tranny fluid, fire extinguisher, de-icer fluid) and a 40 pound toolbox. I like my car like it is, I just want more power, and most members of the forum feel the same way.

Hypsi87
07-26-2004, 05:03 PM
you will get better gains if you modify over lighten. Also the more power your engine makes, the more affect lighting will have.

dcmtnbkr
07-26-2004, 05:38 PM
I know you get more power, but with the lesabre, it doesnt seem all that worth it unless you plan to heavily modify it (i e more than a turbo or supercharger) The stock 3800 SII in itself is great, thats all im sayin

tman
07-26-2004, 05:55 PM
Very true, Turboing it isn't a very good idea, if you want a twin screw SC, you need to just completely swap engines. I've had an idea for a centrifugal SC upgrade in my head for a while now.

A pulley would be added to the accessory drive belt, in front of the alternator. A shaft would stretch across the engine bay, to the air filter location. The shaft would mate to the SC, either directly, or through a small belt. The outlet tube would easily reach the throttle body, and the inlet would get a cone K&N filter.

I've seen this on the Series II engine, but not the Series I.

chconkli
07-28-2004, 05:50 PM
the 3.8 is the GM workhorse, right? Will a newer (i.e 1998 or newer) mount to say, a 1991? Would it work? Just a suggestion. I'm not sure, but I think the older ones put out more horses than the newer ones anyway. Also, what about RAM air? Would something along those lines work?

Anyone who says a Buick is a granny car is wrong. And even if they were right, Granny whooped your butt, punk. My speedo only goes up to 85 but on at least a few occasions I'm sure I was doing 110 or more going down the road, with the petal not even all the way mashed. One guy in a Hyundai seriously wanted to race my friend (96 Ford Contour) and I. It went from a 30 mph zone to a 55, and after my friend pulled behind me, I left the Hyundai behind at the light, doing no more than 60, barely exceeding the speed limit. Even funnier, he tried to blow by me but he couldn't make it before his lane ended.

Kid_Buick_98&84
07-30-2004, 02:23 AM
yeah, the other day i was out drivin with a few of my friends...lets just say that they are not "light" lol..any ways my car was fully loaded and i stilll beat a chevy malibu...and he was the only one in his car. i beat him up to 90mph, they just wont accept that buick kick azz.

mikepee
10-15-2004, 03:23 AM
A LeSabre is no sports car. No one will argue with that I think. I just bought a '95 after getting my old '85 BMW 735i smashed up. I'm liking the smooth ride and the fast motor... but I have to slow way the heck down for corners. I think I got crappy tires... so I'll see with some good ones.

I sure miss my yuppy car but I'm diggin' this granny car. I do think it would beat my 735i in a drag race but it'd be a sorry loser in the corners. It'd be a close drag race.

You'd have to be mad to try and add a turbo charger to this beast.

Mike

-Josh-
10-15-2004, 09:46 AM
If you wanted a SPORTY LeSabre, you should have went with the 89 T-Type. They handle like a dream in the corners to. And they have the Series 1 3800 which in my opinion is better than the series 2 anyway.

edit: This is a good one here, this is kind of what mine will look like in a few years....

http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/503/36460Buicklestt45s.jpg

buickmastermind
10-15-2004, 04:43 PM
I would reccomend using the 86-87 3.8l V6 if at all possible b/c it gets better gas mileage. Turbo saves gas, but lacks low-RPM power. SC slightly decreases gas mileage, but has the low RPM power. If you turbocharge or cupercharg, however, you definatly need to change the air flow so it is more readily available. It worked on mine.

02GrandCaravan
11-02-2004, 03:30 PM
And I thought I was crazy for wanting to add a turbo or S/C to my Grandcaravan....This is great reading!
I'm already supercharging my Saturn. If you don't think it will work then take a stroll over to www.turbosaturns.net and you'll see what I mean.

I guess if you really want to F/I a N/A car, "Where there is a will there is a way". :smile:

buickmastermind
11-02-2004, 06:45 PM
Interesting web site I recently stumbled across. It's
www.turbonator.com
I though it was interesting at least. No clue how well it really works. It is definately something I would like to look into.

Hypsi87
11-02-2004, 06:50 PM
I would reccomend using the 86-87 3.8l V6 if at all possible b/c it gets better gas mileage. Turbo saves gas, but lacks low-RPM power. SC slightly decreases gas mileage, but has the low RPM power. If you turbocharge or cupercharg, however, you definatly need to change the air flow so it is more readily available. It worked on mine.


lacks low RPM power? dude, untill you have driven a turbocharged 3.8, don't make assumptions like that

Kid_Buick_98&84
11-05-2004, 12:44 AM
Interesting web site I recently stumbled across. It's
www.turbonator.com (http://www.turbonator.com)
I though it was interesting at least. No clue how well it really works. It is definately something I would like to look into.

that does look like something i would like to try...i also kinda uses the same technique as the "tornado fuel saver" although i think it boastes more HP.

sega
11-05-2004, 01:01 AM
I google'd the turbonator looking for some reviews, and here are two forum posts I found.


"I've heard that several of the magazines listed in the "As seen in" graphic on their front page actually dyno tested this thing (or one of its cousins "The Tornado" or "SpiralMax") and found results ranging from no horsepower gain to losing horsepower. I have never seen a dyno graph from a reputable source showing such a device providing an increase in power. Putting one of those pinwheels in your air intake system will create a restriction, like driving around with the throttle unable to completely open. And the vortex isn't likely to make it past the throttle, either."

and this:

"Keep your money! It's a scam.

I've done a fair bit of work on air flow inside a cylinder, and I can assure you this will have no effect whatsoever.

There are two types of helpful airflow in the cylinder: swirl and tumble. However, you really want laminar airflow up to the inlet valve. The tumble and swirl atomise the fuel as the mix is drawn into the cylinder on the piston's downstroke, and the pattern of airflow is only affected by the angle and shape of the inlet port, and the position of the valve.

This is a nonsense. You'll see no gain. In fact, it will probably slow your car down as it is effectively a blockage, reducing the area of your air inlet."

avatar307
11-05-2004, 10:37 AM
In reference to the Tornado. I saw a post on-line that referenced the part of the Informercial where they put the car on the Dyno and run tests before and after adding the Tornado. Take a close look at the position of the needles when they do both readouts, you have to be close to catch it. When they do the Dyno test after they insert the Tornado, the readout they show you indicating more horsepower, also shows the car pushing more RPMs and MPHs.

Therefore, it's not an accurate Dyno measurement because it is not "corrected." Thus, why they used a needle readout and not a modern computer-controlled self-corrected Dyno graph of the horsepower over RPM range.

The whole "spinning air" phenomenon is BS. Creating a spinning air current as the air enters the intake does nothing. This is because once the air enters the intake, it must pass through several other passages before reaching the cylinders. As soon as this process begins, any air current that was created would immediately stop.

The closest thing to what they advertise the Tornado, etc does is the Vortec engine. Which uses an intake with special machining INSIDE the intake passages to swirl the air in a similar fashion as it enters the cylinder. (That's why they named the engine Vortec, because it creates a vortex of air like a real tornado.) This results in the greater air/fuel mix the Tornado, etc touts.

However, the last thing the Vortec engine does is get better gas milage... quite the opposite in fact. More air and a better air/fuel mix results the engine requiring more fuel to make efficient use of the air. (Determined by the O2 sensor reporting a "lean" condition because there is unburned oxygen in the exaust vapors.)

As far as the Turbonator is concerned... I guess it is exactly like the Tornado. When I first looked at this website, I thought this was an electic fan that pushed more air into the intake. Basically creating a ram air effect that would boot performance AND fuel consumption. Now that I take a second look, I guess it's just another knock off.

However, I did find this relatively amusing:
"....An emissions lab, licensed by the EPA conducted tests on non-moving vortex generators that produced results as high as 20 horsepower and 24% increases in mileage. Other independent studies yielded results as high as 35 HP and 31% MPG...."

Stange how all these companies neglect to include links to any organization, let alone the EPA, which reflect those numbers (let alone those tests). That would be why all their websites are crappy. If they were actually making money and building a company, the FTC (Federal Trade Commission) would shut them down for "unethical/unfair business practices."

I think the FTC needs to go on an Informercial-wide man hunt. Get some of this crap off the TV screen... then again, they probably have attempted to do so, and got perswaded not to by the companies that own those channels because they love money from the Informercial people as much as any other money. "After all, who watches TV at 3a" they say... apparently gulible people who haven't slept enough.

Kid_Buick_98&84
11-05-2004, 12:39 PM
[QUOTE=I think the FTC needs to go on an Informercial-wide man hunt. Get some of this crap off the TV screen... then again, they probably have attempted to do so, and got perswaded not to by the companies that own those channels because they love money from the Informercial people as much as any other money. "After all, who watches TV at 3a" they say... apparently gulible people who haven't slept enough.[/QUOTE]

^Truer words have never been spoken.

Nothing good ever comes easy when it comes to improving your car. Especially that dramaticly.

buickmastermind
11-05-2004, 04:02 PM
I know of one dramatic improvement that does work, but requires tinkering. Lotsa work. I also have a theory that is expanded off this improvement, but due to the lack of time, I haven't tried to do anything with it. If someone would like to test it themself, and let me know what they find out, message me.
Oh, here is that dramatic improvements website.

www.fortunecity.com/greenfield/bp/16/supcarb4.htm
www.himacresearch.com/letters/
www.himacresearch.com/books/secret2.html

It isn't a hoax, and has never been on TV. Not that never being on TV means much, but it still interesting.

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