OK, the 2004 Australian Grand Prix thread


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ales
03-05-2004, 12:33 AM
2 Friday sessions are now run.

Times:
Practice 1:

Pos Driver Team T Time Gap
1 M Schumacher Ferrari B 1:25.127 139.387 mph
2 Barrichello Ferrari B 1:25.361 0.234
3 Trulli Renault M 1:27.025 1.898
4 Coulthard McLaren M 1:27.264 2.137
5 Alonso Renault M 1:27.359 2.232
6 Montoya WilliamsF1 M 1:27.462 2.335
7 R Schumacher WilliamsF1 M 1:27.675 2.548
8 Button BAR M 1:27.867 2.740
9 Davidson BAR M 1:27.921 2.794
10 Webber Jaguar M 1:28.089 2.962
11 Zonta Toyota M 1:28.118 2.991
12 Raikkonen McLaren M 1:28.233 3.106
13 Sato BAR M 1:28.874 3.747
14 Panis Toyota M 1:28.955 3.828
15 Fisichella Sauber B 1:29.120 3.993
16 da Matta Toyota M 1:29.169 4.042
17 Heidfeld Jordan B 1:29.826 4.699
18 Wirdheim Jaguar M 1:30.033 4.906
19 Klien Jaguar M 1:30.046 4.919
20 Pantano Jordan B 1:30.100 4.973
21 Glock Jordan B 1:31.626 6.499
22 Baumgartner Minardi B 1:32.886 7.759
23 Bruni Minardi B 1:33.236 8.109

Practice 2

05/03/2004

Pos Driver Team T Time Gap

1 M Schumacher Ferrari B 1:24.718 140.023 mph
2 Barrichello Ferrari B 1:24.826 0.108
3 Trulli Renault M 1:25.757 1.039
4 Button BAR M 1:25.786 1.068
5 Alonso Renault M 1:25.853 1.135
6 R Schumacher WilliamsF1 M 1:25.882 1.164
7 Montoya WilliamsF1 M 1:26.206 1.488
8 Coulthard McLaren M 1:26.215 1.497
9 Webber Jaguar M 1:26.312 1.594
10 Raikkonen McLaren M 1:26.579 1.861
11 Fisichella Sauber B 1:26.601 1.883
12 Sato BAR M 1:26.967 2.249
13 Massa Sauber B 1:26.969 2.251
14 Zonta Toyota M 1:27.165 2.447
15 Davidson BAR M 1:27.516 2.798
16 da Matta Toyota M 1:27.710 2.992
17 Klien Jaguar M 1:27.724 3.006
18 Panis Toyota M 1:27.807 3.089
19 Heidfeld Jordan B 1:27.826 3.108
20 Wirdheim Jaguar M 1:28.781 4.063
21 Bruni Minardi B 1:28.991 4.273
22 Baumgartner Minardi B 1:29.708 4.990
23 Pantano Jordan B 1:30.061 5.343
24 Glock Jordan B 1:30.291 5.573

Basically, no one has been able to get within 1 second of Ferrari. And the closest challenger is Renault and Trulli. Of course, tomorrow and Sunday is the day that matters.

Edit: Jordan behind Minardi in FP2 ...

-The Stig-
03-05-2004, 12:43 AM
I watched the 'evening' practice session tonight on Speed.

Once again, F1 amazes me how ungodly fast they are. I think i'll actually keep track of this season. Sounds like Ferrari might be the one to beat... again?

broddie50
03-05-2004, 01:04 AM
I'm with you there Red. I never even knew about Formula 1 until I got speed. Once I saw my first race though I was hooked! Hearing those cars running flat out with the surround sound turned up raises the hairs on my neck... And yeah, once again, it looks like Schumacher is the man to beat, but the season is still young...

Layla's Keeper
03-05-2004, 01:07 AM
To all the naysayers, name-callers, and everyone else who predicted a soft year from the Prancing Horse we have but this to say.

NEENER NEENER NEEEENER

ales
03-05-2004, 01:10 AM
Shut up, Justing, let's not get ahead of ourselves here! :D


Forza Ferrari

Layla's Keeper
03-05-2004, 01:26 AM
I know, I know. It's just practice. I should be more cautious and more restrained and wait to see what happens come race day.

Still, I can't help but find it hilarious that everyone was talking all winter long "McLaren and Kimi Raikkonen" this and "Montoya and Williams" that. How the Ferrari wasn't revolutionary enough. How the Bridgestones were behind the curve. How Schumi was looking at retirement.

On and on and on and on about how Ferrari would lose it this year.

The first time all the cars are out on track together and turning fast laps, the Ferraris are at least a second up on everyone. It's just so orgasmically vindicating.

Sometimes people just need to be reminded that Ferrari is #1, and in order for Williams or McLaren or Renault or ANYONE to be champion they have to beat Ferrari. Ferrari is not rolling over for anyone.

-The Stig-
03-05-2004, 01:54 AM
It's just so orgasmically vindicating.



GAH!


TMI! TMI! TMI!!!!

broddie50
03-05-2004, 02:00 AM
I know Formula 1 teams guard their specs. like fort knox, but is the bmw team still pumping out the most horsepower? And that new "platypus" front that bmw is playing with looks kinda like a desperate move in my eyes, even though I don't know jack about aerodynamics myself. Any comments Layla or Alesi?

ales
03-05-2004, 02:09 AM
We have discussed most of the 2004 cars in separate threads, look up FW26 for our views on the Williams. Keep in mind that most of us here are guessing rather than "knowing" for sure, then again, there are only a select few even in the F1 paddock who know for sure anyway.

crayzayjay
03-05-2004, 04:10 AM
Button faster than the Williams pair? sandbagging? :dunno:

ales
03-05-2004, 04:25 AM
I'd say they haven't found the right setups yet. It's been said that both Williamses were very nervous on the track.

crayzayjay
03-05-2004, 04:27 AM
Interesting... i dont know why but i had an image of the Williams pair coming out of the blocks very quickly indeed... have to say im quite relieved! let's see how quali goes

RallyRaider
03-05-2004, 04:54 AM
I know, I know. It's just practice. I should be more cautious and more restrained and wait to see what happens come race day.

Still, I can't help but find it hilarious that everyone was talking all winter long "McLaren and Kimi Raikkonen" this and "Montoya and Williams" that. How the Ferrari wasn't revolutionary enough. How the Bridgestones were behind the curve. How Schumi was looking at retirement.

On and on and on and on about how Ferrari would lose it this year.

The first time all the cars are out on track together and turning fast laps, the Ferraris are at least a second up on everyone. It's just so orgasmically vindicating.

Sometimes people just need to be reminded that Ferrari is #1, and in order for Williams or McLaren or Renault or ANYONE to be champion they have to beat Ferrari. Ferrari is not rolling over for anyone.

Just where has "everybody" been saying such things LK? As far as this board has been concerned most people have been saying McLaren look to be in trouble, and that includes Kimi himself! Ferrari were always a bit of an unknown because they tend to test mostly in private, however none of us regulars expected them to be slow. Today hasn't changed any perceptions in that area, if anything the teams that looked strongest in testing are carrying through. Even BAR - which I'll admit is quite a surprise. As far as I can remember the only guy who said the Michelins were going to be better than Bridgestone was Crayzajay, and he is a Ferrari nut!

In short if you are "orgsmcally vindicated" already, then I think you have a very bad case of premature ejaculation. :p

Remember the change in engine rules completely alters the landscape. For instance, who was running full revs today? Some teams with a combinations of engine concerns and an entirely new car to setup may have chosen to nurse the engine in order to run plenty of laps and tune the chassis. Since Ferrari have a not "revolutionary enough" car and traditionaly bulletproof engine they may have opened the throttle and been able to apply last years data. I don't know the answer to those questions, do you LK?

RallyRaider
03-05-2004, 04:58 AM
I know Formula 1 teams guard their specs. like fort knox, but is the bmw team still pumping out the most horsepower? And that new "platypus" front that bmw is playing with looks kinda like a desperate move in my eyes, even though I don't know jack about aerodynamics myself. Any comments Layla or Alesi?

BMW? The car is a Williams please.

ales
03-05-2004, 05:03 AM
BMW? The car is a Williams please.

Exactly. But I see where it's coming from, with all the agressive marketing from BMW (it's not Williams-BMW, it's BMW-Williams). Also you should see the coverage on German TV. McLaren and Williams are much more often referred to as Mercedes and BMW respectively, than by team names. :2cents:

RallyRaider
03-05-2004, 05:06 AM
Exactly. But I see where it's coming from, with all the agressive marketing from BMW (it's not Williams-BMW, it's BMW-Williams). Also you should see the coverage on German TV. McLaren and Williams are much more often referred to as Mercedes and BMW respectively, than by team names. :2cents:

Is that so? 20% of the reason I hate modern F1 is because of ignorant or on the take TV commentators.

crayzayjay
03-05-2004, 05:18 AM
As far as I can remember the only guy who said the Michelins were going to be better than Bridgestone was Crayzajay, and he is a Ferrari nut!

Hey, it has nothing to do with what team i support, im just going on what i've read... :)

RallyRaider
03-05-2004, 05:22 AM
Hey, it has nothing to do with what team i support, im just going on what i've read... :)

Well LK is apparently laughing at you anyway :screwy:

crayzayjay
03-05-2004, 06:01 AM
Well, a lot of people in the press and within F1 itself did think Ferrari would struggle this year... let's wait and see, nothing's been proved yet...

RallyRaider
03-05-2004, 06:13 AM
Refer my previous post regarding ignorant commentators!

Nothing would please me more than seeing Ferrari struggle, but given just a semblance of competence their budget should make that unlikely in the short term.

crayzayjay
03-05-2004, 06:17 AM
Point taken, and i agree with you on it, but not all doubters were commentators ;)

On a different note, let's do this (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=197197) everyone!!!

Veyron
03-05-2004, 06:58 AM
Here's a first hand account from a Ferrari fan mind you.

Day 2 at Albert Park.
The first free practice was at 11. Davidson driving the 3rd BAR car was on the track for a long time. He was the leader posting 1.30 and then 1.29s while Zonta in the Toyota finally got down to high 1.28.

Then Michael came out, and in his 1st flying lap he did 1.26 then next he did 1.25 and after another lap or so, went ind just sat in the car to look at the TV. Rubens then went out and he was also in the 1.25s. He ran more laps than Michael. Micahel blew away the oppositions. Trulli was on 1.27s and so was Montoya. But the Williams was bobbing up and down. Obviously the car was not set up properly. I could see that the teams were quite shocked at Ferrari's pace. Kimi came out and went in after about 2 laps and DC hardly went out at all. Don't know why but seem to be preserving their cars. The Minardis were some 8 secs behind. Imagine that. They were about 4 sec behind before, such was the pace of the new Ferraris.

The afternoon sessions started at 2pm. Michael came out and soon set the pace at 1.24s. Then Rubens too was getting it down to 1.24s Michael was a clear 1 sec off Trulli. Then Michael went in for sime adjustment and he went for quick laps again. It was then that he hit the grass ptch and nearly lost the car. It was quite frightening because the wall was close. He went in for check on his chassis. he came out half an hour later and everything seem to be fine.

Montoya and Ralf were really struggling. They are so far off. In fact Trulli was posting better consistant times than the 2 Williams drivers.

I was at turn 1 and it was here that I can see that Michael entry speed was so much higher than the others. Turn 1 is immediately followed by turn 2. In fact it is almost like a chicane. So there's a lot of rear movement as the car exit turn 1 and turn into turn 2. The correct line is to allow the car to drift and just ride on the kerb of turn 2. Michael does this better than the others. He carries a lot of speed into turn 1, power just at the apex while flicking the steering into the left and aiming into the apex of turn 2, just riding on the kerb and a lot of times just skirt at the grass just after the kerb. Looks dangerous but he pulls it off each and ever time.

Rubens doesn't take too much risk here. He keeps more to the road and stay clear of the turn 2 kerb, so he is always on a safe line, not touching the grass at all. Trulli too takes the same like as Michael but does not carry as much entry speed as Michael.

The Ferrari was awesome. It seems to stick to the road and doesn't gets "out of control" in the turn 1 - 2 "chicane. Most of the cars including the Williams and Sauber get their tail out when the driver flick the car into turn 2. Meaning they have to ease off and lose time here.

BS too had done a marvellous job. Rubens was running so many laps, perhaps was ordered to do so to test the tyres. And when the session was stopped, his tyres were hardly worn. Fantastic.

Things are looking great on the first free practice and I hope qualifying will see us leaving the other runners far behind. What was disappointing was to see McLaren struggling. So all the rumoured problems in winter testings must be true. Great!!!

Layla's Keeper
03-05-2004, 05:52 PM
I'll admit, most of the Ferrari-hating isn't on this board, but on the SpeedTV boards which I also frequent. Ten tons of Montoya fanboys who think Ferrari is cheating at every corner.

I've been a fan of Ferrari since the first time my dad explained to me the difference between an Indy car and a Formula One car (back when I was three). Gerhard Berger, Michele Alboreto, Jean Alesi, Patrick Tambay, and Rene Arnoux were favored sons in my home.

I'll admit, I like the Renaults and BAR looking strong. I don't want a total walkover, but man is it great to see the Ferraris as strong as ever.

Veyron
03-05-2004, 06:05 PM
I'm just pissed off at Flavio because he got to knock up Heidi Klum...

RallyRaider
03-05-2004, 07:56 PM
I used to be a Ferrari fan too, but now I hate them as much as anybody. But that has got nothing to do with how fast or slow they are, a team like that is not going to drop off the pace overnight.

Anyway there is some hope in Saturday mornings practice times. BAR have fallen to a more believable level and Montoya has Rubens measure if not Michaels. Kimi is still nowhere :(

ales
03-05-2004, 08:11 PM
I used to quite like McLaren, but then I got access to the Internet, and got to know the attitide of their fans, and it's the one single factor why the team has lost most if not all of my respect.

ales
03-05-2004, 08:15 PM
Williams, predictably, and as promised by Ralf, closed the gap, and Kimi and DC are posting very similar times. And I just saw Klien rev that Ford to just a few dosen RPM less that 19000 ... and that's in free practice! :eek7:

And I woke up and 4 a.m.

ales
03-06-2004, 01:32 AM
Qualifying Times

Pos Driver Team T Time Gap

1
M Schumacher Ferrari B 1:24.408 140.537 mph
2 Barrichello Ferrari B 1:24.482 0.074
3 Montoya WilliamsF1 M 1:24.998 0.590
4 Button BAR M 1:24.998 0.590
5 Alonso Renault M 1:25.699 1.291
6 Webber Jaguar M 1:25.805 1.397
7 Sato BAR M 1:25.851 1.443
8 R Schumacher WilliamsF1 M 1:25.925 1.517
9 Trulli Renault M 1:26.290 1.882
10 Raikkonen McLaren M 1:26.297 1.889
11 Massa Sauber B 1:27.065 2.657
12 Coulthard McLaren M 1:27.294 2.886
13 da Matta Toyota M 1:27.823 3.415
14 Fisichella Sauber B 1:27.845 3.437
15 Heidfeld Jordan B 1:28.178 3.770
16 Pantano Jordan B 1:30.140 5.732
17 Baumgartner Minardi B 1:30.681 6.273
18 Bruni Minardi B No Time -
19 Panis Toyota M No Time -
20 Klien Jaguar M No Time -

I thought Montoya would take it after Q1 and the first sector of Q2, but had to settle for third. Kewl. On a side note, the channels here didn't show the press conference because the signal was lost, and after waiting for several minutes they just ended the programme. So I have no idea what was said there.

RallyRaider
03-06-2004, 02:25 AM
I used to quite like McLaren, but then I got access to the Internet, and got to know the attitide of their fans, and it's the one single factor why the team has lost most if not all of my respect.
Goes both ways Alex, the Ferrari fans at one board I used to frequent would have turned me if I hadn't already seen the light. I just hate the political stunts Ferrari always pull, won't care to list any of them 'cause it'll probably start an argument!

Didn't miss much at the press confrence. Michael was worried things were going too well, Rubens was happy to be second, Montoya said he screwed up.

crayzayjay
03-06-2004, 06:29 AM
I used to be a Ferrari fan
:eek2:


What did you guys think of the new quali format? Personally i thought it was the dullest thing ever. I was knackered, it was 4.00am, and the action wasnt good enough to keep me awake :disappoin

Good to see Schumi on top, but the things that surprised me were:
*BAR's pace
*McLaren's lack of pace
*Ralf 1 second behind Montoya... i fell asleep halfway through the second 45 mins and missed the big guns' runs, so maybe he made a mistake? :dunno:

ales
03-06-2004, 08:03 AM
Perhaps Ralf is on a different strategy to JPM and will make 1 less pitstop? If I had to guess I'd say JPM, Ferraris and Bars have more fuel than McLarens (at least Kimi) and Ralf. Let's see if I'm wrong, and if I am not, let's see which strategy brings success.

Veyron
03-06-2004, 09:14 AM
BAR is the big surprise so far, but I give the Honda about half the race before it scatters.

ales
03-06-2004, 09:28 AM
Have you noticed that Honda was set to pretty much the same revs as the BMW engines? They must be confident. Too bad we didn't get to see Ferrari revs :(

Veyron
03-06-2004, 09:30 AM
BAR has a alot to do to make a believer out of me, but moslty Honda. All engines rev high in the rev range just before they explode!

freakray
03-06-2004, 10:36 AM
I used to quite like McLaren, but then I got access to the Internet, and got to know the attitide of their fans, and it's the one single factor why the team has lost most if not all of my respect.

That's ironic, that's the same reason I feel the way I do about Ferrari.
Not only that, but there are examples of those fans even in this thread.

crayzayjay
03-06-2004, 12:23 PM
That's ironic, that's the same reason I feel the way I do about Ferrari.
Not only that, but there are examples of those fans even in this thread.
Say it aint so!! :eek:

Let's look at the bright side, at least F1 arguments dont end up with fists exchanged like footie ones do, right? :)

broddie50
03-06-2004, 02:56 PM
The people that hate Ferrari are the same type of people that hate the Yankees... I don't think I have to spell out why this is...

RallyRaider
03-06-2004, 03:23 PM
The people that hate Ferrari are the same type of people that hate the Yankees... I don't think I have to spell out why this is...

How easy was that? No need to prove our side of the argument Alex, the evidence just pops up all by itself! Although, to be fair the team that is winning will always attract the bandwagon jumpers and fair weather fan types.

broddie50
03-06-2004, 03:52 PM
How easy was what?! I'm not some ferrari fanboy, I'm a fan of F1 PERIOD. I was pointing out the "would you like some cheese with your whine" mentality people have against the domination of any team in any sport. I'm a big time Sacramento Kings fan and hate the Lakers, but I didn't fall into the crowd with the "Lakers stole it" excuse... The Lakers were the better team, period. Go eat some cheese...

freakray
03-06-2004, 03:59 PM
Sure Broddie, you have it all figured out, right?

I don't care who's winning the championship, as long as it's the team with the best car and driver combination.
The fans on the other hand have the ability to ruin it for everyone.
After all, as Jay mentioned, it's the fans that ruin footie, not the players or teams.

RallyRaider
03-06-2004, 04:31 PM
How easy was what?! I'm not some ferrari fanboy, I'm a fan of F1 PERIOD. I was pointing out the "would you like some cheese with your whine" mentality people have against the domination of any team in any sport. I'm a big time Sacramento Kings fan and hate the Lakers, but I didn't fall into the crowd with the "Lakers stole it" excuse... The Lakers were the better team, period. Go eat some cheese...

Tiresome. We've been here before haven't we? You're losing therefore your whining. Shortsighted, lacking insight, superficial, arrogant, dumb and dopey. Fact is the OT part of this thread was started by a "Ferrari fan boy" as you put it, typing the immortal words "NEENER NEENER NEEEENER". Sounds like a bad winner to me (although nobody has won anything just yet :screwy:)

So you know a lot about baseball. Learn a bit more about F1 (i.e. the team names!) before you start insulting us. You are only making yourself look ignorant.

broddie50
03-06-2004, 04:49 PM
I'm not insulting anybody, or anybody's team. Your right, I'm not the worlds leading authority on F1, never said I was... I will be learning more at 6:30 pacific when it airs in California. Let the best man win...

freakray
03-06-2004, 05:04 PM
I'm not insulting anybody, or anybody's team.



Weird......you must be typing different posts to what I am reading.



I will be learning more at 6:30 pacific when it airs in California. Let the best man win...


Anyway, if you think you can learn a great deal simply by watching one race, you are sorely mistaken.

And it's not the 'best man' as much as the best car and team.

RallyRaider
03-06-2004, 05:08 PM
Let the best man win...

F1 isn't like that, as Ray said, the man (as in driver) is only a small percentage of the winning package. Tyres, engines, electronics are all far more important than the driver.

Anyway back to the Aussie GP. How many stops will most teams do today? With the changes to the pitlane entry and the increase in the speedlimit it could make sense to do three stops. That may also be part of the reason qualifying times are down on last year.

broddie50
03-06-2004, 06:04 PM
Okay, let the best CAR win for fucks sake... I know I won't learn everything I need to know about F1 by watching one race. If I wanted to know every damn stat in F1 history, all I would have to do is google it up, which I don't have the time or frankly an intrest in doing. You guy's are jumping on me like I came in here saying "NAscAR RulEz, F1 is the ghey" or something. Lighten up...

freakray
03-06-2004, 07:32 PM
Okay, let the best CAR win for fucks sake... I know I won't learn everything I need to know about F1 by watching one race. If I wanted to know every damn stat in F1 history, all I would have to do is google it up, which I don't have the time or frankly an intrest in doing. You guy's are jumping on me like I came in here saying "NAscAR RulEz, F1 is the ghey" or something. Lighten up...

Are you one of those people that only opens your mouth to change feet?

ales
03-06-2004, 08:52 PM
So, ignoring the off-topic disctussion, is it me, or is the sun not as bright today before the race as it was yesterday?

ales
03-06-2004, 08:57 PM
According to live timing on F1.com, it's noticeably cooler than yesterday, air 18 degC, track just 23 degC, humidity 72%. Good news from Bridgestone perhaps.

ales
03-06-2004, 09:05 PM
Sensational start for Renault, 6 to 3rd for Alonso! Montoya ran wide while trying to keep him behind.

Veyron
03-06-2004, 09:14 PM
Wow! Ferrari 2.5 sec faster than last years fastest lap! DOMINATION!

ales
03-06-2004, 09:17 PM
Massa overtakes Kimi and Kimi spons shortly after. He's out.

Veyron
03-06-2004, 09:18 PM
KR's McLaren McSploded!

ales
03-06-2004, 09:18 PM
Kimi's engine goes kaboom, and Montoya pits.

ales
03-06-2004, 09:20 PM
Rubens pits and comes out just behind Ralf.

ales
03-06-2004, 09:20 PM
Both Schumachers coming in this lap.

freakray
03-06-2004, 09:20 PM
Kimi predicted that himself though, he was saying weeks ago he didn't see the Mercedes engine making it to the finish.....

ales
03-06-2004, 09:21 PM
Mercedes should have listened.

ales
03-06-2004, 09:24 PM
DC in, wonder if he'll be making 1 stop less.

Veyron
03-06-2004, 09:25 PM
Renault has leap frogged, if it is reliable!

freakray
03-06-2004, 09:25 PM
From Ron Dennis' recent comments, he seemed to be saying it was the drivers that weren't quick enough, not the engine that wasn't good enough.

You're right though....they should have listened.

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