How Do I Know...OBD?


Magik Si
02-26-2004, 08:15 AM
How do I know if my 90 Civic Si is OBD-I or OBD-II...I'm just starting to get int othe "electronic" learning of my car and am wondering...this is the "brain" of the car so I want to make sure I'm mind melding with the right equipment.

Jason :smokin:

marked001
02-26-2004, 08:44 AM
it goes by years...

88-91= OBD0 (technically it is a version of OBD1, but its generally called OBD0)

92-95=OBD1

96-00=OBD2

Magik Si
02-26-2004, 09:20 AM
OBD-0??

Weird...never even hear that one before...so...if I bought a "scanner" would it be for OBD-1?

Jason

slyw/fbpsi
02-26-2004, 09:25 AM
no it'll be odb0 like he stated earlier, unless you want to convert your car to odb1 or odb2.

Magik Si
02-26-2004, 09:33 AM
Is there a way to verify what it it "actually" is? For example is it "marked" on the unit somewhere? Is there a way to tell...want to know for sure so I'm not starting blind...

Jason

marked001
02-26-2004, 09:33 AM
OBD-0??

Weird...never even hear that one before...so...if I bought a "scanner" would it be for OBD-1?

Jason


I'm pretty sure that only OBD2 and up can be scanned...OBD0/1 are not all that sophisticated ;)

slyw/fbpsi
02-26-2004, 09:39 AM
Is there a way to verify what it it "actually" is? For example is it "marked" on the unit somewhere? Is there a way to tell...want to know for sure so I'm not starting blind...

Jason
Dude, it's common knowledge that 88-91 civics are odb0 92-95 are odb1, 96-98 and odb2a and 99 and up are odb2b. the scanners only work on odb2 cars.

Magik Si
02-26-2004, 09:40 AM
Ok...this may be a dumb question...but...

Obviously OBD-2 is better than 0 & 1...so that said, how difficult is it to convert my car to "2" from it's existing "0 but sorta like 1"?? :)

Jason

slyw/fbpsi
02-26-2004, 09:44 AM
Ok...this may be a dumb question...but...

Obviously OBD-2 is better than 0 & 1...so that said, how difficult is it to convert my car to "2" from it's existing "0 but sorta like 1"?? :)

Jason
Who said odb2 is better that odb1? if that was the case why does hondata only deal with odb1? to convert to odb2, you need to get the conversion harness from locashracing and an odb2 ecu.

Magik Si
02-26-2004, 09:55 AM
Dude, it's common knowledge that 88-91 civics are odb0 92-95 are odb1, 96-98 and odb2a and 99 and up are odb2b. the scanners only work on odb2 cars.

Dude...obviously it's not THAT common knowledge because I didn't know it...AND like I said I'm JUST beginning to learn the 'electronics' of my car...
If the scanners only work on obd2...then why can you buy obd1 scanners??
So what is the primary difference between obd0 and obd1?? And is there a "better" thing to have?

Jason :smokin:

slyw/fbpsi
02-26-2004, 10:03 AM
Dude...obviously it's not THAT common knowledge because I didn't know it...AND like I said I'm JUST beginning to learn the 'electronics' of my car...
If the scanners only work on obd2...then why can you buy obd1 scanners??
So what is the primary difference between obd0 and obd1?? And is there a "better" thing to have?

Jason :smokin:Why do you need a scanner anyway? you can check any codes with the jumper harness by the ecu?

Magik Si
02-26-2004, 10:18 AM
Why do you need a scanner anyway? you can check any codes with the jumper harness by the ecu?

HUH?? I have no idea what that means?? I don't want just codes...I can get those by counting the "blinks". I want what Honda charges me $57.50 for! (and then tells me nothing by the way).

Jason :smokin:

crxlvr
02-26-2004, 10:21 AM
alot of dumb shit is being flung around this thread so lets clear it up.

you can only buy scanners for OBDI and OBDIIa/b motors. they have a connector under the dash where you plug the scanner into, there is no scanner input on our OBD0 cars.

OBDII is hard to convert to, cause you need to add extra sensors to the motor, as well as a new ecu and alot of wiring. Higher OBD's are better cause they tell more as to whats wrong with your car, its easier to pinpoint problems. they are also alot easier to fix, most problems can just be connected to a laptop and adjusted.

Magik Si
02-26-2004, 10:41 AM
alot of dumb shit is being flung around this thread so lets clear it up.

you can only buy scanners for OBDI and OBDIIa/b motors. they have a connector under the dash where you plug the scanner into, there is no scanner input on our OBD0 cars.

OBDII is hard to convert to, cause you need to add extra sensors to the motor, as well as a new ecu and alot of wiring. Higher OBD's are better cause they tell more as to whats wrong with your car, its easier to pinpoint problems. they are also alot easier to fix, most problems can just be connected to a laptop and adjusted.

THANK-YOU!

Now...what is the best way for me to "learn" what does what "electronically" with my OBD0 car?

Jason :smokin:

marked001
02-26-2004, 10:44 AM
..if you want to learn the inner workings of the pm6 ecu... check out www.ghettodyne.com ...

bambam89lx
02-26-2004, 03:58 PM
In my opinion, OBD0 is "better" when it comes to swapping engines. I think it is better for two reasons.
1. It is alot easier to figure out why there is a check engine light on by counting the blinks on ur ECU
2. It is a hell of alot easier to swap an engine to an OBD0 vehicle due to less sensors and plugs therefore less wiring and it is alot easier to understand what those sensors do and which plugs go to them.

OBD1 has it's advantages also
1. As crxlvr said, obd1 and obd2 are better when it comes to figuring out what's up with ur car and making ur CEL (Check Engine Light) go away. But, you must own the scanner tool to do this.

2. Engines using OBD1 and 2 generally run cleaner by utilizing the extra sensors to control your emissions.

I would never want to try to swap an engine into an obd2 car unless I was converting to OBD0 or OBD1. Many people working with OBD2 vehicles swap to either OBD1 or 0. But not always. The same goes for OBD0 vehicles. When people swap OBD1 and OBD2 controlled engines into their car, they generally don't transplant the OBD1 and 2 electronics with it. They usually keep they're OBD0 wiring. Sometimes people convert they're OBD0 cars to OBD1 but this is not as common as the previous example and requires a conversion harness or alot of knowledge and experience to do it urself.

One last thing that alot of people seem to forget or not think of. OBD (On Board Diagnostics) is not engine specific. It is based on the computer you are using. For example, you can use an OBD0 computer to run an OBD2 engine.

I hope i've helped a little.

slyw/fbpsi
02-26-2004, 06:15 PM
OBD1 has it's advantages also
1. As crxlvr said, obd1 and obd2 are better when it comes to figuring out what's up with ur car and making ur CEL (Check Engine Light) go away. But, you must own the scanner tool to do this.

It is based on the computer you are using. For example, you can use an OBD0 computer to run an OBD2 engine.

I have always been able to check my cel codes and make them go away, with my 00si, 91 dx and the same 91 dx converted to odb1. And I didn't need a scanner to do it. for the 00 si and the 91 dx converted to odb1, all I did was hook a wire or safety pin into the diagnostic plug by the ecu and count the blinks on my cel, after you've fixed the problem, pull out the ecm and hazard fuse to erase the code. for my 91 dx, all you have to do is pull back the carpet and count the blinks and once again pull the corresponding fuses to clear the code. Yes, an odb0 computer can run an 0db2 engine, but you have to have parameters set in motion for it to do it, like rechipping the ecu, to activate vtec, or run a rpm switch or vafc to activate vtec.

91civicDXdude
02-26-2004, 07:21 PM
"OBD* is a national standard. this is why all 96+ cars can be read with an OBDII scan tool. OBD1 isnt as standardized and many manufacturers have different plugs for their model specific readers and such. "OBD0" which is actually non-OBD, is the least advanced and non standardized.

the honda OBD0 system, although easily tunable, isnt the best way to go. OBD1 offers more tunability and more options, this being limited by the hardware in the OBD0 ECU itself which by design, has an 8 bit processor which can only do so much.

non-OBD or OBD0 is the easiest, least advanced, and cheapest

OBD1 is the standard in performance

OBDII sucks balls.

lilol89crx
02-26-2004, 08:18 PM
OBD1 isnt as standardized and many manufacturers have different plugs for their model specific readers and such
very true i have 11 different plugs to my snap on scanner for obd-1 and only 3 types for obd-2.

Cjz89civic
02-26-2004, 10:12 PM
Just to let you all know OBD1 and OBD2 all units can be jumpered(pins depend on what car and ecu) to read the codes in the ECU with the blinking engine light. Im told OBD1 is easier to program and change things internally it is also easier to disable the knock sensor with OBD1.

crxlvr
02-27-2004, 09:27 AM
most obdII dont require a scanner either, the scanner is used to tell you in english what is wrong with your car, but most cars have a series of actions you must do and the CEL will flash a certain number of times, if you got a helms, you just look up the flashes and it tells you whats wrong.

in my class on a car, the sequence to get the code was as follows.
1. turn the car to start but dont crank
2. put the shifter in each gear starting from P>R>N>D>2>1 and then back up to the top.
3. turn the a/c on to full blast and then turn it off.
4. turn ignition back off, then back to start without cranking, and the code will flash.

everycar has a different sequence but they all should have one. a pretty time consuming series of events, thats why scanners were invented to just read what the hell is wrong.

bambam89lx
02-27-2004, 09:55 AM
Yes, an odb0 computer can run an 0db2 engine, but you have to have parameters set in motion for it to do it, like rechipping the ecu, to activate vtec, or run a rpm switch or vafc to activate vtec.

that's not true. You don't have to do anything whether it's a non-vtec engine or not. U can run an LS engine from any year with OBD0 electronics without any problem. besides, there are OBD0 vtec ecus available such as the PR3 and the PW0 that ran the 4th gen B16's. They can power any b-series vtec without problem and without "rechipping".

slyw/fbpsi
02-27-2004, 10:01 AM
that's not true. You don't have to do anything whether it's a non-vtec engine or not. U can run an LS engine from any year with OBD0 electronics without any problem. besides, there are OBD0 vtec ecus available such as the PR3 and the PW0 that ran the 4th gen B16's. They can power any b-series vtec without problem and without "rechipping".
your're right about that, I forgot, I could of saved money and just used a pr3 or pw0 to run my d15b vtec, instead of switching to odb1.

bambam89lx
02-27-2004, 10:13 AM
actually, that engine came in both obd0 and obd1 as it was placed in 90-99 civic vti. besides....if you want to get VERY technical, you can EASILY run a B series motor on a D series ecu and vice versa. I'm going to be running my B18 with a PM6. so, I hope u werent being sarcastic about running ur D15B vtec with a PR3 cuz it can easily be done.

lilol89crx
02-27-2004, 10:33 AM
most obdII dont require a scanner either, the scanner is used to tell you in english what is wrong with your car, but most cars have a series of actions you must do and the CEL will flash a certain number of times, if you got a helms, you just look up the flashes and it tells you whats wrong.


on some obd2 cars the scanner not only tells you what is wrong but also allows you to reprogram it to a point. dodge for instanace allows you to re-program the speed sensors(at the ecu) to change for different tire sizes. also the scanner allows you to do individual sensor checks, allows you to open/close,stop/start different relays etc to check for proper operation. this is the only reason i enjoy working on obd1-2 vehicles, scanners make it so much easier to pinpoint the problem on these newer vehicles

slyw/fbpsi
02-27-2004, 11:09 AM
your're right about that, I forgot, I could of saved money and just used a pr3 or pw0 to run my d15b vtec, instead of switching to odb1.
At this site http://asia.vtec.net/article/d15b/ it says it came out in the 91 EG family, which means it started out as an odb1 car. NO, I wasn't being sarcastic, If I had of thought of that, I could of saved myself $110, by just getting a pr3.

91civicDXdude
02-27-2004, 11:37 AM
At this site http://asia.vtec.net/article/d15b/ it says it came out in the 91 EG family, which means it started out as an odb1 car. NO, I wasn't being sarcastic, If I had of thought of that, I could of saved myself $110, by just getting a pr3.

every pm3 i've ever seen goes for *atleast* $100

bambam89lx
02-27-2004, 11:42 AM
every pm3 i've ever seen goes for *atleast* $100

Right, I think he was talking about saving money by using a PR3 or PW0 instead of using a V-AFC which can cost over 300 dollars.

slyw/fbpsi
02-27-2004, 11:56 AM
every pm3 i've ever seen goes for *atleast* $100
yeah, i spent $50 on the p08 and $160 on the conversion harness, so minus $100 for the cost of a pr3 or pw0 and I would of saved $110, like I said.

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