Best Sound Proofing Material?


amdsoldier
02-17-2004, 03:57 AM
Okay I know this kind of thread may have been done before, but I couldn't find a good one in the search(es) I made. :D

Anyway when I bought the car the guy put in some crazy expensive sound proofing material, I forget the name, but costed $1000 to do he claims. However there is still some places I'd like to cover and well not sure what to go with.

I'd like to add more deadenign material on the floor, maybe the doors and where they rear speakers used to be. I don't have rear speakers and so theres nothing behind the 6x9 speaker grills and most of my car noise is coming from there, lol of all places. So I wanna somehow also fill that up and make it look nice or well not noticeable anyway through the grills.

Any suggestions guys? Theres a lot of stuff on ebay, not sure which to go with though. Thanks in advance. :)

sr20de4evr
02-17-2004, 10:20 AM
I stand behind SecondSkin, best stuff I've used to date, better than Fatmat and edead IMO
www.secondskinaudio.com

second skin rep
02-21-2004, 08:22 PM
:biggrin:

Thans for the plug!!!

Go over to www.caraudioforum.com and run a search on these words

edead
fatmat
rammat
brown bread
second skin

That should keep you busy for a while.

feel free to let me know if you have any questions
service@secondskinaudio.com
I am happy to help regardless of which you chose

ANT

Haibane
02-22-2004, 04:09 PM
sr20de4evr, what about dynamat, any better?

sr20de4evr
02-22-2004, 04:27 PM
Never used it, but according to independent tests it's about the same as brownbread, rammat, secondskin, etc, only twice the cost (or more in several cases). To me, dynamat is the JL of deadening. It's good, but there's stuff out there that is atleast as good for cheaper.

SilverJLEclipse
02-25-2004, 03:20 AM
brown bread is weak, check out the competition circuits majority of the top competitors use dynamat. more money but do it right once.
Some numbers of accoustic loss (max is considered 1)
dynamat extreme second skin
0.081 @ +14F (-10C)
0.240 @ +32F (+0C) .16@ 32F
0.257 @ +50F (+10C) .19@ 50F
0.417 @ +68F (+20C) .29@ 68F
0.259 @ +86F (+30C) .20@ 86F
0.194 @ +104F (+40C) .14@ 104F
0.140 @ +122F (+50C)
0.094 @ +140F (+60C)
Dynamat Extreme $259 36sq ft
Second skin $139 50sq ft
The difference is large in the usable temp range, your choice

sr20de4evr
02-25-2004, 12:17 PM
brown bread is weak, check out the competition circuits majority of the top competitors use dynamat. more money but do it right once.
Some numbers of accoustic loss (max is considered 1)
dynamat extreme second skin
0.081 @ +14F (-10C)
0.240 @ +32F (+0C) .16@ 32F
0.257 @ +50F (+10C) .19@ 50F
0.417 @ +68F (+20C) .29@ 68F
0.259 @ +86F (+30C) .20@ 86F
0.194 @ +104F (+40C) .14@ 104F
0.140 @ +122F (+50C)
0.094 @ +140F (+60C)
Dynamat Extreme $259 36sq ft
Second skin $139 50sq ft
The difference is large in the usable temp range, your choice


you're also comparing the lowest level SS to the top level dynamat :rolleyes:
Since Ant is a member here, we get secondskin 40% off with free shipping, that means that 50sqft of damilifier is only $84 with free shipping. That's $1.68/sqft, compared to the dynamat xtreme which is $7.19/sqft. If you want to compare something closer, look at the STFU-80 compared to the dynamat xtreme. The STFU is better, and is still only $3.75/sqft. You could have 160mils of deadening by getting the STFU for the same price as 45mils with the Dynamat. It is mass afterall that deadens your panels, when you're comparing 2 deadeners that weigh the same, the only differences are adhesiveness, smell, and ease of application. I speak from experience when I say that STFU-80 has absolutely no smell, it's insanely easy to install, and it will rip off your paint if you try to take it off.

SilverJLEclipse
02-25-2004, 11:02 PM
actually, check their site, the accoustic loss is higher on the damplifier than the STFU-80. Also, mass is not the key to sound deadening, the ability to transfer vibration energy to heat energy and disperse it is. If you get a deal on this that's great, don't claim that "pound for pound" so to speak it is better if you can't support it. I also get dynamat wholesale and you can't beat that!

sr20de4evr
02-26-2004, 02:22 AM
Did you just say their function is to turn vibration into heat?
Dude, it's a mass loader, they're called that for a reason. You ever had something vibrating, like a bell. You grab it and it shuts up, same deal here. More mass = more vibration dampening, it's as simple as that. If you want to get into acoustical dampening that's a completely different area, and is not the function of damplifier, STFU-80, dynamat xtreme, brownbread, or any other mass loader. For that you want closed cell foam normally, and it's for a COMPLETELY different function than mass loaders. If you want to kill ambient noise, you get closed cell foam, if you want to kill noise generated by vibrating panels, you get a mass loader, and more mass is better.

Sure dynamat may be better than secondskin in killing ambient noise, but they both suck at it. If that's what you want to get rid of there are better things out there, and regardless you can get 4 layers of secondskin damplifier for the price of 1 layer of dynamat xtreme, and the ss will deaden better in every aspect. When price is taken into consideration dynamat falls flat on its face. Oh, they also inflate their numbers if you didn't know already. This is according to an independant test, not affiliated with any deadening company at all.

Dynamat Xtreme
PUBLISHED SPECS________TESTED SPECS
thickness 44 mils ________60
Weigh PSF .45 __________.49
ALF @ 68F .42___________.124
Peel strength psi 42.6______13.6
temp 300F___________300f no degration

Syk0tic
02-26-2004, 02:01 PM
sr20de4evr, what about dynamat, any better?
Can you explain dynamat to me? Since it reduces noise from outside that means you wont be able to hear your music(from outside) when your windows are up right?

SilverJLEclipse
02-28-2004, 01:42 AM
ok, so you think that dampening vibrations occurs by mass loading? huh, are you sure that mass loading doesnt just lower resonant frequency? you want to know what the real physics definition of dampening is? Dampening (http://www.photonics.com/dictionary/lookup/XQ/ASP/url.lookup/entrynum.1185/letter.d/pu./QX/lookup.htm) This in mind dynamat is still the best material, which is a patented butyl rubber material unlike the bitumous roofing material that most bargain sound deadeners are made for. Your buddy Ant also knows that dynamat is better. He says quit a few different things, this is one before he was into making money for himself Dynamat (http://forums.caraudio.com/vb/archive/index.php/t-23039)
Not trying to be a hardass about this but...I don't think you should defend your opinion with the wrong information. When others ask an opinion it should be your job as a person with knowledge (as you obviously have) to inform those with accurate info so that we don't continue having people filling their cars with roofing material (not talking about second skin, which i agree is a good product with good research behind it).

sr20de4evr
02-28-2004, 06:07 PM
I looked in about 10 different dictionaries, and that one you linked to is the ONLY one that made any mention of heat. Now I'm not saying that you're wrong, I just think it depends on their interpretation of damping. In my mind there are atleast 2 ways to think about it, one way is for some device to apply a restraining force on an oscillating object to try and settle it. This will dissipate the object's kinetic energy in the form of heat, and this is the view I think that photonics dictionary is taking. The other way is to add mass to an object, so it takes more energy to get it to oscillate in the first place. This isn't an active type of "damping" like the first way is, it's more passive, and since all you're really doing is making it more difficult for the panel to oscillate in the first place, no energy is released in the form of heat since no energy is stored in the panel in to begin with.

Now that that's out of the way, the only thing Ant said in that link in regards to Dynamat is they had a good formula and it was patented, that's it. In the past he very well may have said Dynamat was better than his Damplifier, I'm not going to go searching around to find out for sure. What I do know is that it is much more cost effective to go with any of the dynamat substitutes (there are many, not just ss, I would be willing to spend my money on rammat, edead, brownbread, etc as well). If your time is so valuable that it's simply not worth it to spend an extra hour or 2 putting on an extra layer of the "cheap stuff" to get better dampening for cheaper, then by all means go with Dynamat.

The fact that their ratings are so grossly overrated is even more sketchy IMO. Their peel strength and acoustic loss are both less than 1/3 of what they claim it is, which strikes me as a little odd coming from such a "respectable" company.

hmm, the website is down so I can't make my post, guess I'll just type a bit more then....

Dynamat seems similar to Bose to me (except not nearly as bad). Bose charges rediculous prices for horrible products, yet because of their insanely high prices, wide array of patents, and vast amounts of advertising, they managed to get a name in the industry as being the "best" (atleast to the uninformed). People think that because something is patented and it costs a hell of a lot more than the other options, then it must be the best, but it's all a marketing gimmick. Dynamat is still a good product unlike Bose, but their approach seems very similar. They went and got a few patents, slapped their name all over their product, did a lot of advertising and marketing, and charged a rediculous amount of money for their deadener. This gave them a name in the industry as being the best, now no matter what happens they can just ride that reputation out and make a killing, charging whatever amount they want for their product no matter how good or bad it really is (up to a point obviously). These tests just confirm that in my mind.

You don't have to agree with anything I'm saying, I'm really just rambling because it's 2am on a Friday night and I'm not doing anything....

Haibane
02-29-2004, 09:05 AM
not to interupt your hardcore battles, but how much edead v.2 do you think I would need to cover the panelling etc. in a Jeep Cherokee. Do I need to use it everywere or only where it rattles?

amdsoldier
03-01-2004, 12:09 PM
not to interupt your hardcore battles, but how much edead v.2 do you think I would need to cover the panelling etc. in a Jeep Cherokee. Do I need to use it everywere or only where it rattles?

Hehe I dunno lets find out. :)

Thanks for the information guys. Who sells this stuff here though? It would be great to get a discount, thanks!

SilverJLEclipse
03-01-2004, 12:39 PM
there are many different ways to install with regards to coverage. The first and easiest would be to hit the problem areas with minimal coverage, mainly doors and the speaker mounting surface. From there you can add to your liking or budget. I think most will agree that sealing up the doors completely will increase midbass response. Floor and firewall application will help to reduce road noise. I also use expanding foam to fill the void in the areas where deadening material cannot be applied. Good luck.

sr20de4evr
03-01-2004, 07:20 PM
yeah, I agree with everything Silver said pretty much

The doors are normally the biggest problem area, and depending on how much bass you have the trunk lid (I'm not an suv person, don't know what to call it, haha) can rattle pretty badly. Seal up the doors first and foremost, I would do atleast 2 layers if you want to get the most out of your speakers. Doing the trunk and floor (guess it's all pretty much one thing in a cherokee) can really help eliminate road noise and keep it quieter inside, this is especially helpful if you have a loud exhaust or loud tires. Doing the roof will cut back on how loud rain is, it can also get rid of a bit of wind noise.

The amount you do depends on your budget and how quiet you want it to be, I would definately do atleast a layer on the door skin and 2 layers on the door panel to start out with. I forgot which sub(s) you're getting, but I think I remember they're pretty large, so the trunk lid is probably a good idea as well. After that it's just up to you. I would start out with 50sqft and see how far it gets you.

SilverJLEclipse
03-01-2004, 10:28 PM
oh yea, license plate too please! nothing is more annoying than a license plate that hits harder and louder than your subs! i believe ghetto is appropriate for this situation

amdsoldier
03-03-2004, 05:35 PM
there are many different ways to install with regards to coverage. The first and easiest would be to hit the problem areas with minimal coverage, mainly doors and the speaker mounting surface. From there you can add to your liking or budget. I think most will agree that sealing up the doors completely will increase midbass response. Floor and firewall application will help to reduce road noise. I also use expanding foam to fill the void in the areas where deadening material cannot be applied. Good luck.

Yeah can you tell me a little more about that expanding foam? It sounds like what I may just be looking for in terms of filling up that hollow space where the rear speakers used to go in my Eclipse.

Also what about the discount guys, I didn't hear anyone mention it yet... :)

sr20de4evr
03-03-2004, 05:56 PM
Also what about the discount guys, I didn't hear anyone mention it yet... :)


email service@secondskinaudio.com and mention you're a member of automotive forums and you heard about some kind of member's discount. He'll also be able to help you with any deadening questions you have, whether you go with his stuff or not.

SilverJLEclipse
03-03-2004, 11:21 PM
the expanding foam can be found in smaller quantities at home improvement stores or larger amounts of expanding mix and pour polyurethane foam. just do a google on it!

explore4days
12-04-2017, 06:24 PM
Thanks for all the great information. Not sure if it's too late to revive. Now that my 1 owner 2000 Tacoma Xcab is needing things replaced, my sound system needs total replacement. To start with I'm looking for the best soundproofing material to reduce the current loud road noise, and improve base/ sound levels. I've decided to do the entire interior to make traveling quieter, also some heat reflection would be nice.
All surfaces will have something over it up to the cab's floor carpet, so it must accommodate the standard interior trim.
What would you recommend on a budget SS?

PaulD
12-05-2017, 10:11 AM
I really have not kept up with the latest sound deadening stuff, I would do a heavy google search

BentleyRussell40
03-23-2019, 10:08 PM
Use carpet underlay to absorb sound, it's super cheap. IF you are trying to change the resonant frequency of metal panels, anything you can stick to them to add mass will do the trick. Don't spend a fortune on stuff like dynamat, go to home depot.

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