im not trying to be a dick here but lets really think about this for a sec., if the gsr is was modded like the ls shown, theorectically it should make more power, correct? one thing u forgot which was vital was the compression ratio, for the gsr to run at 32 psi, lowering the ratio to an ideal turbo c/r is definately a must. so now the the actual hp will decrease somewhat similar to the ls and what it boils down to is tq, which again is what the gsr doesn't have enough of over an ls. unless someone have found a way to run a high c/r on a turbo i would love to see some proof.

You really are a blubbering idiot, you have absolutely no technical info to base your posts off of, you're just making guesses, and most of the time you're wrong. With a 10:1 or even 11:1 B18C1 running on C16 32 pounds of boost would not be a problem. The only problem is running the same turbo that he made 660 to the wheels on his LS with would be running way off the island on the compressor map before he hit 32 psi. The vtec head would allow that motor to make just as much if not more power at less boost. See here: http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=704660 616 WHP, 27 pounds of boost, on a much smaler displacement B16, running a P-trim PT67, 10.4:1 compression, AND he's running ITR cams. Goes against pretty much everything said on here.

this guy was pushing 400 hp and his car was daily driven...i'm not sure about the streetability of his new setup, but you guys never said anything about streetability. I thought this was just a debate of whether these high compression motors can handle boost.

The debate isn't if they can or if they can't, because we know that they can. The debate is can they do it reliably, and that answer is no, plain and simple.

On a side note, boosted, I would love to see the Dyno sheets on all these cars that you're talking about. You seem to be posting a lot of crap with little to no backing information. At least tran_nsx has some Dyno graphs to prove his argument.

You really are a blubbering idiot, you have absolutely no technical info to base your posts off of, you're just making guesses, and most of the time you're wrong. With a 10:1 or even 11:1 B18C1 running on C16 32 pounds of boost would not be a problem. The only problem is running the same turbo that he made 660 to the wheels on his LS with would be running way off the island on the compressor map before he hit 32 psi. The vtec head would allow that motor to make just as much if not more power at less boost. See here: http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=704660 616 WHP, 27 pounds of boost, on a much smaler displacement B16, running a P-trim PT67, 10.4:1 compression, AND he's running ITR cams. Goes against pretty much everything said on here.



Ok first of all no personal attacks or name calling!!! Let’s keep this civilized and productive.


And yes with overly build engines, race fuel, professional tuning, and numerous rebuilds it’s possible to run high compression and high boost. As Polygon said we both know a guy that ran that and made over 800HP. However that car had all the characteristics I posted above and was an all out drag racing car.

Teggy_Pwanage wants a street car and he's not made of money. And for a street car low compression and boost make good companions. Otherwise why would all the PhD’s in engineering working for car manufacturers that build cars like the EVO, STI, and SRT4, and so on would make all those turbo cars with low compression?

You really are a blubbering idiot, you have absolutely no technical info to base your posts off of, you're just making guesses, and most of the time you're wrong. With a 10:1 or even 11:1 B18C1 running on C16 32 pounds of boost would not be a problem. The only problem is running the same turbo that he made 660 to the wheels on his LS with would be running way off the island on the compressor map before he hit 32 psi. The vtec head would allow that motor to make just as much if not more power at less boost. See here: http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=704660 616 WHP, 27 pounds of boost, on a much smaler displacement B16, running a P-trim PT67, 10.4:1 compression, AND he's running ITR cams. Goes against pretty much everything said on here.

can i ask how old u are? my 14 year old sister acts more mature than u. everytime i see a post response from u to almost anyone, its always- ur an idiot, shut your A$$ up and phrases of that vulgar nature :disappoin . how bout u grow up.


who was the one trying to point out on a chart they made themselves that full boost on a turbo in general can be reached @ 1000-2000 rpms? im an idiot huh? even when u were wrong, all i did was just politely mentioned u were incorrect about the graph u made; therefore, no one wouldn't be trying to use your false homemade computer generated chart. if u haven't notice we are having an intelligent debate here, and if u can't act like an adult maybe u should stay in the dunce corner. as far as keeping the c/r low, i gave my reasons and even evidence of the type-r. now why would they remove thier type-r cams in the article for a lower 9.0:1?


and lets say even if i was wrong (which i can be from time to time, no one is perfect, but i guess u are always right, right?), if u haven't noticed, i even stated that if f/i and a high c/r can be used together, all i needed is proof. by u doing all this name calling, all it does is make u look even more pathetic, and no one is going to respect your opinions and facts.


lastly, just want to mention that the type of set up wether on the streets or the strip wasn't mentioned so i'll give that to you, but i was refering to a street set up. hell on the strip u can run on race gas use high c/r and boost to your hearts desire, run it one time on a track and have it blow up after the run, but who really cares right, it ran nevertheless. i believe about 4 months ago, there was an article of a 4000 hp or somewhere around there integra type-r using four turbines, yeah let me see that on the streets. that thing didn't even look like a type-r anymore, but more of a resemblance of those 4 sec dragsters with a highly modified type-r motor running on rocket fuel basically.


p.s. grow up please.

It's really annoying when someone decides to hijack a thread and turn it from a civilized discussion/debate into a childish display to langauge and insults. I'm with the people who say let's drop the BS and get back on track.

http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0202tur_extremeedge/

heres the article on the 4000 hp integra, if people have a hard time believing me. want to make a correction, it was two turbines and not 4 from what i previously posted. again, drag cars and street cars shouldn't be put into the same category at all. hey whtteg, if u see this, i want to thank u ahead of time for this article u put in the integra forum.

http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0202tur_extremeedge/

heres the article on the 4000 hp integra, if people have a hard time believing me. want to make a correction, it was two turbines and not 4 from what i previously posted. again, drag cars and street cars shouldn't be put into the same category at all. hey whtteg, if u see this, i want to thank u ahead of time for this article u put in the integra forum.

Man, that car is insane...4000HP Integra (if you can call it that with everything right down to the block custom) Nitromethane fueled funny car. 55psi, 5.5seconds@250MPH 1/4 mile...Damn man, that's just amazing...wow.

Man, that car is insane...4000HP Integra (if you can call it that with everything right down to the block custom) Nitromethane fueled funny car. 55psi, 5.5seconds@250MPH 1/4 mile...Damn man, that's just amazing...wow.

yeah that is amazing, but is it streetable? hell no.

yeah that is amazing, but is it streetable? hell no.

Oh yeah, hell no it's not streetable...lol....I never said nor implied that. It's Fueled by Nitro for one, it's a top-fuel funny car...it's custom everything...hell, some of the design for the custom block was from a 7.4 liter chevy design. Nitro is in no way streetable, hell it's $800 a barrell and 1 run eats $200 worth. Talk about high cost to drive. It can't burn up fully in the cylinders on a blown nitro vehicle, so it burns on the way out the exhaust manifold, which is why flames tend to shoot out the tailpipes. I was just saying most people don't realize the power a top-fuel funny car on nitro puts out. It's amazing what those guys do. Heck, I personally wouldn't even call it a honda or acura. It's a Nitro fueled funny car, not a honda or acura. Nothing on that car is honda or was origanally designed for a honda or acura. Understandably, just like all nitro funny cars, it's all custom. Half the design they used for various parts of the block are from chevy's and other cars. It's all custom cnc machined, not a single part (which is understandable) is honda. It's amazing someone can get that much power out of a blowen 4 banger, even if it is on Nitro @ 55-60psi, is what I am trying to say. The end point is this. You can build a motor for virtually any power level you want, just like this guy did. That doesn't mean the motor will be streetable, or even run on gasoline. Obviously, this is a top-fuel drag car on Nitro. It runs 5.5 second 1/4 miles @ 250+ MPH. It runs on a custom tubular drag chassis. The only thing remotly honda about it is the shell that sits on it, lol. The point is, of course it can be done if you have the wallet, but that doesn't mean you'll be able to drive it really, let alone on the street. Everyone is argueing about "a motor can do this or that." My point is, a motor can do almost anything you want if you have the cash. You just might end up building a motor that is strictly race and in no way streetable. It's all about priorities...Is that what you really want out of a motor. Not all motors have to be streetable to be an engineering marval. No nitro fueled funny-car is streetable under any condtions,but they are certainly is a marval, especially this one. Just read the article and see some of the stuff this guy did to help the car start up and ideal at the line better, to avoid having to rebuild the motor all the time. The car is set-up to run on nitromethane, ethonal, or any mix of both. That in itself is a statement to engineering.

my little rule of thumb...if it ever started out as a honda/toyota/whatever, then it will always be one, becuase the work was done to it to change it. im sure that was never a real car though.

gsr = better motor for performance period ..... sure you can boost an ls more on stock internals , but throw some low c/r pistons and sleeves in a gsr and it would rape the ls all day pound for pound.....you can always get more outta the gsr in the end , it was built that way .... the ls was made for people that wanted an integra for what it is , not for what it can do , the gsr is a great mixture of looks and performance , then the type r takes the performance to another level ... only drawback with a gsr is you will be spending more cash in the end ... but there will always be more performance in a GSR !!

gsr = better motor for performance period ..... sure you can boost an ls more on stock internals , but throw some low c/r pistons and sleeves in a gsr and it would rape the ls all day pound for pound.....you can always get more outta the gsr in the end , it was built that way .... the ls was made for people that wanted an integra for what it is , not for what it can do , the gsr is a great mixture of looks and performance , then the type r takes the performance to another level ... only drawback with a gsr is you will be spending more cash in the end ... but there will always be more performance in a GSR !!

by lowering the c/r, power is reduced which is defeating the purpose the gsr's performance. the higher c/r is the main reason why the gsr is better for an n/a set up. why waste money lowering the c/r when the ls already have the ideal compression. :screwy:

gsr = better motor for performance period ..... sure you can boost an ls more on stock internals , but throw some low c/r pistons and sleeves in a gsr and it would rape the ls all day pound for pound.....you can always get more outta the gsr in the end , it was built that way .... the ls was made for people that wanted an integra for what it is , not for what it can do , the gsr is a great mixture of looks and performance , then the type r takes the performance to another level ... only drawback with a gsr is you will be spending more cash in the end ... but there will always be more performance in a GSR !!

Umm, do that and you have taken away some of the power due to the lower c/r. After all that work of lower c/r pistions, you essiantailly have a less powerful LS/Vtec....what you say, less powerful? That's right, the B18B1 has more displacement than a gsr for one. There are other reasons as well. A GSR come to about 155HP @ the wheels, I've know of LS/Vtec's coming in about 170 or so. I am not saying the GSR is a crappy motor, but your arguement is very flawed.

http://asia.vtec.net/spfeature/vtecimpl/vtec1.html

this article doesn't pertain too much on the two motors being discussed, the b18b1 and the b18c1. it does though explain why honda invented vtec. basically it's an alternate route to turbcharging.

The debate isn't if they can or if they can't, because we know that they can. The debate is can they do it reliably, and that answer is no, plain and simple.

On a side note, boosted, I would love to see the Dyno sheets on all these cars that you're talking about. You seem to be posting a lot of crap with little to no backing information. At least tran_nsx has some Dyno graphs to prove his argument.
How do these dynographs prove that the GSR motor can't handle boost reliably. I never knew that dynographs measured reliablity too. Unfortunately I never got a PM back from the guy with the boosted ITR. So no mod list or dynograph from him. And what cars are you talking about, I've brought up one car, and that was the ITR. I agreed with tran that in stock form the B18B is the best motor too boost because it allows a larger margin for error without completely destroying the engine because of the lower compression. But anyone that is really out to make some power should really consider the B18C along with the B18B.

It has a block girdle and oil squirters and a better flowing IM and head, plus the addition of VTEC all of which the B18B does not have. Anyone that is building there car for big power figures is obviously going to replace block internals for stronger parts, whether it's a B18B or B18C. Lowering the compression will lose power, but you make up for it by upping the boost.

I'm sorry I couldn't get any dynographs, but the ones he even posted showed the GSR making more power at less psi than the the B18B, but with significantly lower torque figures, and me and Tran already had the torque discussion, so there's no need to go there again. Boost the B18C to 10psi and see how it does. With good tuning, you can make just about anything work reliably.

Building the internals and lowering the compression will probably bring it within B18B power ranges, but with the advantages that the B18C has over the B18B, I think it is a better platform to go balls to the wall with. If this debate is solely over whether the B18C can handle boost reliably, you don't have any proof as to whether it can or not either. Reliability is solely on each individual, some people do things the right way and some don't. There are going to be people running low boost on the B18B who completely destroy their motors because of negligence and what not, just like there will be people who are running high boost on a B18C and are blowing their motors because of negligence etc.

How do these dynographs prove that the GSR motor can't handle boost reliably. I never knew that dynographs measured reliablity too. Unfortunately I never got a PM back from the guy with the boosted ITR. So no mod list or dynograph from him. And what cars are you talking about, I've brought up one car, and that was the ITR. I agreed with tran that in stock form the B18B is the best motor too boost because it allows a larger margin for error without completely destroying the engine because of the lower compression. But anyone that is really out to make some power should really consider the B18C along with the B18B.

No the dynographs don't prove reliability. Common sense would tell someone that boosting over 8PSI on a 10:1 compression ratio on the GSR engine is stupid, unless the car is for race only. The dynographs proved that the LS makes better use of it power and has more torque.

My second comment as you can see was directed at boosted, not you.

Ok, will this argument settles, What are the best turboes? I am considering the T3/T4 or the T3? who makes the best turboes and what are the best brands?

Ok, will this argument settles, What are the best turboes? I am considering the T3/T4 or the T3? who makes the best turboes and what are the best brands?


Well the proper way to find the best turbo is to match the compressor map of the turbo to the engine you want to turbo.


But generally speaking the best turbos should be the GT series from Garrett.

Other companies also have Garrett GT based turbos, HKS for one, but i'm not sure how much different they are from the originals.

You might want to check out the new disco potato turbo too.

Well the proper way to find the best turbo is to match the compressor map of the turbo to the engine you want to turbo.


But generally speaking the best turbos should be the GT series from Garrett.

Other companies also have Garrett GT based turbos, HKS for one, but i'm not sure how much different they are from the originals.

You might want to check out the new disco potato turbo too.

I believe that XS-Engineering uses Garrett GT turbo's too, though I could be mistaken...and yes...definatly check out the Disco Potato, it's a great turbo...and it's finally available!!!

What would you want to replace should somthing go wrong?
The LS is cheaper by far.

WTF, why bring back a 7month post, for basically no reason at all? Noone was arguing whether the LS would be cheaper..

((boost/14.7) +1) X compression ratio=effectice compression

A gsr with 7 PSI of boost and an LS with about 11 PSI of boost would make the same effective comrpession in the cylender. You can lower compression and raise boost and be at the same HP level.