twin turbo impala


anarchy1114
02-01-2004, 01:24 AM
does anyone here kno if the 2000 impala 3.8 liter v6 is strong enough to support twin t25 turbos at 10-12 psi and if they make a turbo exhaust manifold for it or if i need to have the custom built. also do they even make a fmic that would fit in the impala

Michael_S
02-03-2004, 11:36 AM
I don't know that much about cars, but wouldn't you need to modify your transmission to handle that kind of power? Twin turbos would boost you to... what, almost 300 horsepower?

ImpalaDriver372
02-09-2004, 12:21 PM
You would definately need a transmission mod. I'm not sure however if the 3.8, strong though it is, would stand up to twin turbos with that high of a boost. You might have to do some major internal work.

Michael_S
02-09-2004, 03:30 PM
I thought about doing some major enhancements to my '01 Impala. I would love to turn it into a sleeper speedster with maybe 275 horses.

All I know about cars comes from reading this and that here and there on the forums and a few hot rod magazines. The impression I get it is that a 275 horse new Impala would require more money than it's worth.

Stephen B
02-10-2004, 12:02 AM
As there were internal differences between the turbo 3.8 used in the Buick Grand National and Riviera from GM as that of the naturally aspirated 3.8 I would have no doubt some well thought out internal work will be required, especially with twins.

Look at it this way, a naturally aspirated engine's power stroke (although in micro seconds) gradually builds force onto the piston top. Comparitively adding a turbo is like hitting the piston top with a hammer, adding another tubo would be like hitting the piston with a sledge hammer!

If you are going to go to the expense and work, do it right from the bottom of the engine up.

The 3.8 has been used in professional racing in the past and has produce as much as 800HP, but never saw any endurance with internal failures.

Michael_S
02-10-2004, 11:09 AM
[QUOTE=Stephen B]As there were internal differences between the turbo 3.8 used in the Buick Grand National and Riviera from GM as that of the naturally aspirated 3.8 I would have no doubt some well thought out internal work will be required, especially with twins.
QUOTE]

Wouldn't it be easier to buy a better engine than make all the necessary mods to the existing one?

I don't know too much here, so correct me if I am wrong. I would think you'd need new valves, new rings, forged pistons, a new crankshaft, new heads, plus of course a bigger intake and exhuast, and a new transmission...

If I had the cash, I would make all those mods in a heartbeat - but I would think it's cheaper to just buy the engine, transmission, intake and exhaust from the 2004 Impala SS and drop it in.

Jared_80
02-19-2004, 12:47 PM
Good news for ya slick the Chevy V6 blocks hold up well to light to mod turbocharging, bad news is that that is the WRONG car to do it to. Get somthing RWD trust me on this one FWD and Chevy do not mix.

anarchy1114
02-20-2004, 04:10 AM
all i'm looking to do is be really competitive on the drag...i'm also going for the sleeper...shit i wanna be able to hand some of these 5.0 thier asses in a 4 door ls. it would be great.... i would mod my eclipse but the block in my gs can't handle over 300 whp...and its a hell of alot of cash to mod it..so i though i would start playing around with my impala and see if i could get it runnin really fast....hopefully in the low 13's...if its possible, ikt may not be only running 8- 10 psi...it also would be extremely unique

anarchy1114
02-20-2004, 04:13 AM
also if i did run the turbos would i be better off running a liquid to air intercooler or a front mount. and a correction on that about psi i'd be running 10 - 12 psi. also another question anyone kno if chevy makes a exaust manifold for turbos or is it a custom job thing i would have to do

Michael_S
02-20-2004, 10:17 AM
Good news for ya slick the Chevy V6 blocks hold up well to light to mod turbocharging, bad news is that that is the WRONG car to do it to. Get somthing RWD trust me on this one FWD and Chevy do not mix.

How do you know it can handle the boost? Have you seen cars that have it, or is there something about the design that is a reasonable indicator of what stress the engine can take?

Jared_80
02-20-2004, 02:07 PM
Yes I have seen alot of older Chevy V6s turbocharged. In fact they are recomended in the book Turbocharging that SAE sells. I DO NOT recomend the FWD Impala for drag racing, get a RWD.

anarchy1114
02-20-2004, 09:26 PM
whats wrong with having a fwd turbo impala...my gs is fixxing to be turbo charged to and well i haven't seen to many probs with other fwd turbo cars i.e. the eclipse

Jared_80
02-26-2004, 10:25 AM
The eclipse is one thing the Impala is quite another, the eclipse was made avalable in turbocharged AWD trim (the GSX) and even the GSTs had good tranneys and suspensions, plus the 4G63 was made for turbocharging. If you want a dragster get an AWD or a RWD, if you want an explanation as to why a FWD is slower I will take the time to expalin it to you.

Michael_S
02-26-2004, 11:06 AM
Well, I can't speak for anarchy1114, but I am not looking to turn my family car into a drag racer. I realize that 250 horses in a FWD car is nowhere near as good for any type of performance application than the same 250 on a RWD or AWD vehicle. FWD loses out a little on speed and a lot on handling.

I just want a little extra oomph to be available when I want it without totally nuking my long term reliability or my gas mileage. From what I understand - correct me if I am wrong - the best way to do that would to be replacing my existing 4 speed automatic transmission with either a manual or an automatic with more gears. The problem is, that's really freakin' expensive.

So my other option would be new intakes and exhaust, ports, heads, and possibly forced induction. That's cheaper than paying out the wazoo for a customized fit transmission, but it's still really expensive.

From everything I've read, custom ECU chips are overrated and not worth the money.

Jared_80
02-26-2004, 11:40 AM
Well, I can't speak for anarchy1114, but I am not looking to turn my family car into a drag racer. I realize that 250 horses in a FWD car is nowhere near as good for any type of performance application than the same 250 on a RWD or AWD vehicle. FWD loses out a little on speed and a lot on handling.

I just want a little extra oomph to be available when I want it without totally nuking my long term reliability or my gas mileage. From what I understand - correct me if I am wrong - the best way to do that would to be replacing my existing 4 speed automatic transmission with either a manual or an automatic with more gears. The problem is, that's really freakin' expensive.

So my other option would be new intakes and exhaust, ports, heads, and possibly forced induction. That's cheaper than paying out the wazoo for a customized fit transmission, but it's still really expensive.

From everything I've read, custom ECU chips are overrated and not worth the money.


What you read about the ECU chips is bogus, a GOOD ECU (or piggyback) is worth an extra 10-15 hp on a Chevy V6 on regular fuel and up to 30hp on 92octane. Just do your homework and avoid scam campanys. You don't have to give up on your tranny yet not untill you start talking about 75-100hp upgrades, reworking your intake and exaust will lengthen your powerband, which your auto tranny does not know how to use, so avoid anything that is ment to raise your redline unless you plan to convert it to a manual-auto. If all you want is a little extra umph raising your high rpm hp is probably not your goal anyway stick with somthing that raises the torque of the powerband that you already have, I would recomend either a 15% shot of NOS (15% of your stock hp is considered safe for your engine) supercharger. Depending on what your wallet can afford, the NOS system will run only about $500-$1000, but requires refills. The supercharger will cost you about $2000 but as long as you have gas in the tank it will never run out. If you go with NOS get a wet system to avoid having to replace your stock fuel system (or your engine). If you go with supercharging get a dynamic type compressor, which allowes you to use low boost at low RPM and high boost at high RPM, unlike a positive displacement supercahrger which keeps a constant boost level at any RPM (thus killing your milage). Just don't use over 7psi (I would recomend 5psi) because you will not be able to buy gas for it at Chevron you will have to go to the local airport and buy avgas. Anyway you would not want anything over 5psi for your trannys sake, because that is about a 1/3 increase in hp.

Michael_S
02-26-2004, 01:52 PM
What you read about the ECU chips is bogus, a GOOD ECU (or piggyback) is worth an extra 10-15 hp on a Chevy V6 on regular fuel and up to 30hp on 92octane. Just do your homework and avoid scam campanys. You don't have to give up on your tranny yet not untill you start talking about 75-100hp upgrades, reworking your intake and exaust will lengthen your powerband, which your auto tranny does not know how to use, so avoid anything that is ment to raise your redline unless you plan to convert it to a manual-auto. If all you want is a little extra umph raising your high rpm hp is probably not your goal anyway stick with somthing that raises the torque of the powerband that you already have, I would recomend either a 15% shot of NOS (15% of your stock hp is considered safe for your engine) supercharger. Depending on what your wallet can afford, the NOS system will run only about $500-$1000, but requires refills. The supercharger will cost you about $2000 but as long as you have gas in the tank it will never run out. If you go with NOS get a wet system to avoid having to replace your stock fuel system (or your engine). If you go with supercharging get a dynamic type compressor, which allowes you to use low boost at low RPM and high boost at high RPM, unlike a positive displacement supercahrger which keeps a constant boost level at any RPM (thus killing your milage). Just don't use over 7psi (I would recomend 5psi) because you will not be able to buy gas for it at Chevron you will have to go to the local airport and buy avgas. Anyway you would not want anything over 5psi for your trannys sake, because that is about a 1/3 increase in hp.

Thanks for the tip. I looked around online and found this website: http://www.rsmracing.com/us/main.htm Their Impala 3400 section listed a Supercharger with adjustable boost up to 8 PSI and supposed 80 hp gain. If I took it back to 5 PSI that would probably give me 30 or 40 hp at least, which is plenty.

Thanks for the info on RPM range and transmission. I hadn't realized that the transmission wouldn't 'figure out' how to use more power in the higher RPM range.

anarchy1114
02-27-2004, 12:44 PM
i dunno istill don't see a problem with turbo charging a fwd car...the only way i would put my impala on a bottle is if i had a 14:1 compression ratio. i would still consider turbos at a 10:1 ratio, anything over i would prolly go bottle fed. i still don't get why u don't think itworth my time jared 80. maybe u can explain it in depth. and if i put it on the bottle it'll prolly be along wit a supercharger. but i would perfer turbos still. after i get ur in depth explaination tho i might change my mind

Michael_S
02-27-2004, 02:53 PM
anarchy1114,

I'm no expert, so don't take this explanation as absolutely correct.
1. There's only so much boost an engine can use. Anything more is wasted strain on the engine and lost horsepower from driving the turbocharger or supercharger harder than it needs to be for no reason.

It's possible that 10 pounds of boost gives a better benefit than 8 pounds in an Impala, but it's not certain.

2. In rear wheel drive cars, the tires that push the car always face the same direction and the ones in the front turn the car. In front wheel drive cars, the tires that push the car are also the ones that turn the car, so if you want them to handle a lot of extra power the reinforced axles/joints/etc... are more expensive.

3. When a car is under hard acceleration, most of the weight settles over the back tires. In FWD performance cars, that's a huge problem; you lose traction on the tires that push the car right when you want it most. To make matters worse, there's a high risk of torque steer - you lose traction on the front tires unevenly and end up getting yanked to the side by the tire that has better traction. There are no factory performance FWD cars for a reason.

bezler
02-29-2004, 08:05 AM
why don't you go with a nitrous kit it is a lot cheaper. This way you will have money left over to rebuild your motor and tranny after you blow it up with all that power.........

anarchy1114
03-01-2004, 01:40 PM
i may consider bottle fed but its the pussies way out. it takes no skill what so ever to hook up a bottle, hit a botton an bam u have instant hp. plus nitrous is so fuckin detremental to your engine block. all motor is the best way to go for me

Kachok
03-02-2004, 12:27 PM
i dunno istill don't see a problem with turbo charging a fwd car...the only way i would put my impala on a bottle is if i had a 14:1 compression ratio. i would still consider turbos at a 10:1 ratio, anything over i would prolly go bottle fed. i still don't get why u don't think itworth my time jared 80. maybe u can explain it in depth. and if i put it on the bottle it'll prolly be along wit a supercharger. but i would perfer turbos still. after i get ur in depth explaination tho i might change my mind

What!! A 14:1! dude you do know that NOS increases an engines tendency to knock right? With a 14:1 you would have to use like 108 oct alcy to keep from knocking, and a 10:1 is high for turbocharging look at any factory turbocharged engine and you will usualy find 8.5-9.0 CR. Take my word for it twin turbocharging an Impala is not worth it, you will invest alot of money in custom exaust manifolds and intake piping+ about a thousand dollars in custom instalation. Just get a prefab kit with a chip mod, save yourself alot of trouble/money. You don't know enough about this to dive into a custom project yet. If you really want massive power get a purpose built turbocharged drag V8 with a reinforced transaxle, if you want a daily driver that can use pump gas and go fast don't try breaking new ground, just get a supercharger kit. If you absolutly have to have twins make sure you find sombody who specalizes in turbo fabracation and make sure that your pockets are deep.

Master Tech Dude
03-03-2004, 08:14 AM
The bottom line is that the stock 3.8, even as great as it is, will not stay together for long under the stress of turbocharging. If you could locate a 3.8 factory turbo motor from an old Buick Grand National you might have something to work with, otherwise it will be so costly to keep the Impala performing it just wouldn't be worth it. If money isn't an object then reframe the new Impala to configure it as a rear wheel drive car and drop a fuel injected blown 350 stroker in her. Then you will have a real sleeper...as long as they dont see the hood shaking ! :iceslolan ...but they would see the rear tires smoking! :nono: Remember, at some point, the more power you attempt to get out of any engine the less reliable it becomes. Dude :smokin:

Michael_S
03-03-2004, 09:56 AM
The bottom line is that the stock 3.8, even as great as it is, will not stay together for long under the stress of turbocharging. If you could locate a 3.8 factory turbo motor from an old Buick Grand National you might have something to work with, otherwise it will be so costly to keep the Impala performing it just wouldn't be worth it. If money isn't an object then reframe the new Impala to configure it as a rear wheel drive car and drop a fuel injected blown 350 stroker in her. Then you will have a real sleeper...as long as they dont see the hood shaking ! :iceslolan ...but they would see the rear tires smoking! :nono: Remember, at some point, the more power you attempt to get out of any engine the less reliable it becomes. Dude :smokin:


I would love to reframe my car to RWD... But I imagine it costs an arm and a leg. How would you do that?

If I dropped a 350 ci Chevy into her, I wouldn't even need to have a blower on it, right? I thought those can make over 300 horses naturally aspirated, with decent engine longevity too (?)

Master Tech Dude
03-03-2004, 08:16 PM
Yeah, probably very expensive to do, but man what a ride! :lol2:

There are plenty of custom street rod builders that would take on this sort of project, even here on the east coast, but there again, to take a hard look at all the performance cars out there now would be much more practical.

Still, I like the idea of the 5.7 sitting under the hood, and like you said, even naturally aspirated it would be a blast to drive.

Dude :smokin:

Jared 80
03-04-2004, 11:42 AM
Ha back from the dead, one day they will learn that they cannot keep me out. Anyway unless you are trying to make a fashon statement out of it give up on the twin turbo impala, unless by some weird chance you mannage to find a turbocharging kit for it which I highly doubt.

h3llphyre
03-05-2004, 01:39 PM
Okay, here is a little bit of schooling, because of all of the misinformation posted here...

First of all, regardless of whether the engine could handle the extra power, most N/A motors will be able to handle 8-10psi with proper tuning and intercooling from either a turbo or supercharger, assuming that they are set up correctly.

Nitrous DOES NOT increase knock on its own accord. Nitrous adds more air into the system. it doesn't matter if the CR is 10:1 or 18:1. MOST nitrous systems (wet) add fuel at the same time and as long as you follow the jetting guidelines set by the maufacturer, you will not experience any knock.

Now, for the question at hand.

You seem to all forget that the Grand Prix GTP, Bonneville SSEi, Buick Ultra, and ImpalaSS all have a supercharged 3.8L V6. Before you ask, no, you cannot just bolt the supercharger onto the N/A version of the 3800 series motor. There are however, a few options. First off, there ARE aftermarket supercharger systems for the N/A version of the 3800 series motor. Novi supercharger I believe. They can be run up to 8psi. Saying that, your transmission will probably NOT handle the added power for very long. That can be solved by switching the tranny to the trannies used in the supercharger versions, which is a HD (heavy duty) version.

Now, your BEST bet, if you really want to boost your car is to do this. Get ahold of a junkyard and find a low milage supercharged 3800 series motor, with tranny and ECU+wiring harness. I know a buddy of mine told me he could get me this whole setup for around $2000. Its really the cheapest route to go. Now you have 240hp and 280ft-lbs of TQ to start with. With some simple mods, you can make north of 300hp for some cheap money. A new pulley, exhaust, tuning (chip reflash), and a cam will make north of 350hp to the crank.

Now, for all you FWD haters, there are ways around the lack of traction. The easiest way to get traction in a FWD car is similiar to RWD. Put some sticky tires on the car. A set of drag radials or ET streets. Then, in the back, put blocks in the springs to resist the cars tempation to transfer the weight to the back. There are some fast FWD 3800 series cars running 11's and a few in the 10's. So, just because the car is wrong wheel drive, doesn't mean it can't go fast.

Anyway, if you have any other questions, feel free to ask. I have done extensive research into 3800 series engines, as well as other boosted engines (I own a modified twin turbo dodge stealth).

Michael_S
03-05-2004, 02:10 PM
h3llphyre,

Thanks for responding. First, before you post further, keep in mind that at least for me this is largely a theory-only discussion. I've got a lot of other things I need to do with my extra money (like save more than $2000 a year towards retirement) before I'll be able to budget any car mods. If you're only doing this to be helpful to someone who's genuinely interested in making some mods, I don't want to waste your time.

I can't speak for the original post guy, anarchy1114, but I have the base Impala with the 3.4L 60 degree angle V6 (3400 LF1, I believe it's called) with the stick for the transmission on the steering column, not the floor. If you can answer either of these questions without wasting too much of your time researching:
1. If I was going to swap in the supercharged 3800 with tranny, ECU, and wiring harness, would there be any problems fitting it?
2. If I was just going to put in the heavy duty transmission and run a supercharger or turbocharger on the existing engine, do you think it could handle 8-10 psi boost?

h3llphyre
03-05-2004, 02:26 PM
h3llphyre,

Thanks for responding. First, before you post further, keep in mind that at least for me this is largely a theory-only discussion. I've got a lot of other things I need to do with my extra money (like save more than $2000 a year towards retirement) before I'll be able to budget any car mods. If you're only doing this to be helpful to someone who's genuinely interested in making some mods, I don't want to waste your time.

I can't speak for the original post guy, anarchy1114, but I have the base Impala with the 3.4L 60 degree angle V6 (3400 LF1, I believe it's called) with the stick for the transmission on the steering column, not the floor. If you can answer either of these questions without wasting too much of your time researching:
1. If I was going to swap in the supercharged 3800 with tranny, ECU, and wiring harness, would there be any problems fitting it?
2. If I was just going to put in the heavy duty transmission and run a supercharger or turbocharger on the existing engine, do you think it could handle 8-10 psi boost?

Haha, I don't take anything too seriously. Don't worry.

1.) Swapping in the 3800 series motor SHOULDN'T be a big deal, as the car was designed to have that motor in the car anyway. The new ImpalaSS has the supercharged 3800 series, so install issues are not a huge deal. It will however take a skilled person to install it. I know of such people capable of doing that kind of swap.

2.) I am not quite sure if the 3.4 and 3.8 use the same tranny or not. They either use the 4T65e or 4T60e transmissions. The motor alone SHOULD be able to handle at least 8psi, if the system is set up correctly. For this, I would recommend a turbo system. It is easier (READ: possible) to set up a very effective intercooler and tuning the boost is much easier, as you don't have to swap pulleys to do so. This would allow you to more or less turn the boost all the way down for normal driving and turn it up for times at the track, potentially with race gas. This would also save your transmission.

Now saying that, even the HD version of the transmission is going to need some help. There are a few aftermarket parts that SHOULD be installed into the transmission to help make it live longer. A limited slip differential and upgraded differential pin are the two things right off the bat. Maybe a shift kit as well. it will make the tranny actually live any abuse you may give it.

Any other questins?

h3llphyre
03-05-2004, 08:32 PM
The eclipse is one thing the Impala is quite another, the eclipse was made avalable in turbocharged AWD trim (the GSX) and even the GSTs had good tranneys and suspensions, plus the 4G63 was made for turbocharging. If you want a dragster get an AWD or a RWD, if you want an explanation as to why a FWD is slower I will take the time to expalin it to you.


The 4G63 was only designed for boost on the boosted cars. Much as the 6G72 was only designed for boost on the boosted models.

If you want a dragster, don't buy AWD. It isn't ANY good after 11 second passes. The drivetrain loss is too substantial and RWD can be made to hook... Hence 4 second dragsters.

Trust me, I own a twin turbo stealth. I've seen what happens when someone tries to bolt on the twin turbo manifolds and turbos onto an N/A 6G72. It doesn't last too long at max boost. The only reason boosted motors are better, is because they are built for boost. No different then the 3.8L in the boosted grand prixs. Forged internals and the fuel system to back it up.

anarchy1114
03-07-2004, 02:56 AM
thanks for all the info h3llphyre. if u own a rt/tt then heres a site u may be interested in . www.dynamicracing.com they are out of alamogordo, new mexico (about 2 1/2 hours from me) and the owner matt monett(i believe thats how u spell his last name) has one of the fastest rt/tt in the southwest. he works on other vehicles but perfers to strictly deal with 3000gt vr4's and stealth rt/tt's . check it out.

h3llphyre
03-07-2004, 03:48 AM
thanks for all the info h3llphyre. if u own a rt/tt then heres a site u may be interested in . www.dynamicracing.com they are out of alamogordo, new mexico (about 2 1/2 hours from me) and the owner matt monett(i believe thats how u spell his last name) has one of the fastest rt/tt in the southwest. he works on other vehicles but perfers to strictly deal with 3000gt vr4's and stealth rt/tt's . check it out.

I'm quite familiar with Matt Monet and his monster VR4's that he builds. My buddy (who owns a VR4) order his turbos DR650's from Matt last year. Matt is a really good guy. My buddy has talked to him on the phone a few times.

As for the stealth. It is current gutted (READ: no interior). It has a pair of racing seats, a steering wheel, and a shifter. Soon, it is getting upgraded turbos (two using eclipse turbos). I still need to buy a set of 5pt harnesses for the car. What I need to do is stop buying cars. I was up to 9 a few months ago. Now, I am down to 3. I need to decide if I am going to build my caprice this year or not. I may just make a nice cruiser out of it, decent HP (400hp), throw a 6 speed in it and leave it at that. Replace my Olds for daily driving.

DUNO
04-22-2004, 04:35 PM
your engine an handle no more than 400 hp and the tranny 300 hp it go bad,
go for the modft on it , but rebuilt the engine, trany,and the axls. if you install the turbos with the stock engine is ok yest dont boos to high,
get a single turbo instead, it will work beter that t-turbos , is yest super charge your car, super charge will work better on your car,

i own a auto custom shop we done 2 impalas supercharge they are taking any mustang or camaros, exept my twin turbo supra, hhahahah
GO FOR IT BE DIFRENT, GOOOD LUCK

h3llphyre
04-22-2004, 10:43 PM
your engine an handle no more than 400 hp and the tranny 300 hp it go bad,
go for the modft on it , but rebuilt the engine, trany,and the axls. if you install the turbos with the stock engine is ok yest dont boos to high,
get a single turbo instead, it will work beter that t-turbos , is yest super charge your car, super charge will work better on your car,

i own a auto custom shop we done 2 impalas supercharge they are taking any mustang or camaros, exept my twin turbo supra, hhahahah
GO FOR IT BE DIFRENT, GOOOD LUCK

I have no idea what you are saying? Can anyone translate?

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