10w7 not impressive?

ok earlier today was changing my cv axles for a hi-performance aftermarket version. after 40 mins or so i saw my old friends who use to lives a house away from me. they were brothers and both have very clean cars. mike, the older brother has a newest gen white vtec prelude, and the younger brother, joe, has a lexus is300.
well we were just catching up on old times until joe mentions that he just finish his stereo installation which consists of a jl 300/4 for the interior, and a jl 500/1 for his 10w7. i checked it out and the installation was very elegant, it looked like show quality. he had the amps on the left and right side of the trunk and the sub in the middle behind the passenger seats facing the rear of the car. there was no wires or mistake of any kind that i notice and it was quite impressive, especally when they made it themselves.
after complimenting in his work, all three of us hopped in his lexus to check out the sound. i was very eager to see how this sound since everything was nicely match and of course he has that beast, the w7. now joe, he wasn't much of basshead and so he went towards the sq route, while mike prefer to be heard at least 3 blocks away so he's going for spl. joe turn the volume to a moderately high listening level as the introduction of a rap song begins. we sat with the windows closed to fully enjoy every decibel. starting off were the vocals and beats but no bass, the clarity of the interior components was great (didn't bother to ask what they were though), but i thought it would atleast have more umph to it when this is coming from 75 rms to each channel. about 20 sec later, the bass notes hits and it was very indepth resembling the sound of a quality home theather sub. the lows were very deep as i expected and can feel the cars vibration but no rattles, sweet. still, to me their was something missing, i wasn't sure what is was, but something. i then ask them to then go to my car with the same cd for a comparison, they both agreed and halfway through the song, we headed to my car integra.
i was the only one to get in since my car was on jack stands and was on a diagonal driveway. first off just want to say im not a an audiophile but i do like to hear some good beat in my ride. my system consist of 3 10w0's in a vantage stealth box which replaces the spare tire. driving the subs temporarily is a pioneer 150x2 rms which is bridged to get 300x1. my components are some kenwoods all around and they are driven by my head unit which is 45x4. i turn the volume up similarly to the previous listening demonstration , got out and all of us just stuck out head inside to hear. again the vocals and beats starts off, and from what i heard it was very decent. the highs i heard were a bit higher than b4 so that was a plus, but the draw back was that distortion can be acutely heard due to the lack of power. about 20 secs, the bass hits and i can instantly feel that missing something. my 3 w0's was hitting harder than the w7, i was like wow that was a huge difference, it sounded like my subs had more power and the bass was hitting more crisper than b4. it's been quite a while where i've been impress with my own subs, b4 i thought they were lacking in power and wasn't loud enough in contrast to their higher and better siblings. to make sure i asked mike, and he said the same thing, all three of us were astonished, and joe im sorry to say was kinda disapointed.
well that was the surprising story, im still in disblief myself to be honest. come on now that jl mono block d class amp is 500 watt rms!!! and that subs is supposedly the best of the best. whats going on here? just to be sure, i ask them if they can visit again next weekend so i can thoroughly check joe's wiring and setup. who knows, maybe he is using an 8 or 10 guage wire for power or something.
lastly, im still patiently waiting to hear mike's system. Something tells me that is going to be insanely earcrushing. he gots a 1000 watt r/f amplifier and i can't recall exactly what kind of sub, but i thinks its the 13 w7 or one of those highend r/f. if any of u guys heard a simlar demo, i would love to hear from u and what u think, everyone else's comments are also welcome.

Ive never heard any W7's yet. Im not sure what a vantage stealth box is... is it ported? is his sealed? maybe its cuz you got 3 10" cones moving and he has 1, even though theres a bit more power and a better sub it cant do it? does he have it crossed over really low and yours plays higher bass cuz it is much easier for higher frequencies to be louder.

some ideas... but i am no pro at this stuff at all so i could be talking out my a$$

Ive never heard any W7's yet. Im not sure what a vantage stealth box is... is it ported? is his sealed? maybe its cuz you got 3 10" cones moving and he has 1, even though theres a bit more power and a better sub it cant do it? does he have it crossed over really low and yours plays higher bass cuz it is much easier for higher frequencies to be louder.

some ideas... but i am no pro at this stuff at all so i could be talking out my a$$

a vantage box is a speaker made for a specific car while at the same time applying stealth mobility so it's invisble to the naked eye. as far as the box are concern they are both sealed. yes i do got three cones moving but these are i guess u can call the base model where rms power is 125 watts whereas the 10w7 is 500 watts rms. and not to mention he not only have a better quality amp but it is even more power at 500 watts rms compared to my 300. with the crossover, he has a wire that can be plug to the amp and is about 15 feet i guess that can controll the bass. he played with that and it still didn't compared to my w0's. u don't have to be a pro, just give me some ideas like u did and that would be great, im no audiophile fanatic but i know the basics and this just doesn't seem to add up?

heres a pic of the vantage box, it would fit perfectly for your 94 integ. the box are measured exactly to jl's specs, all u need is add 3 w0's. put this where ur spare tire use to be and u got great clean bass without trying to play around with making the perfect enclosure for ur listening need, this can take a long time. not only that but u also got plenty of room left since the box is leveled with the trunk bottom.
http://www.jlaudio.com/stealthbox/va_integra.html#he w7

oh just did some research, i discovered my pioneer amp is running a 1.3 ohm load due to the fact that i got my sub running in parallel in bridge mode. ok i take it back so the pioneer isn't all that bad, but still no comparison to the mighty jl.

yeah, 3 4 ohm subs is a 1.3 ohm if they are all parallel, but if you bridge your amp then it is actually giving the amp a .65 ohm load on each channel. or is your amp mono. and yeah, I wouldnt think pioneer amps would handle anything like that. and you are probably sending alot more power than you think with that l0ow of an ohm load to the amp. unless it has something like my JBL.
I get 600x1@4 ohms, 1200x1 @ 2 ohms, if i go to 1 ohm though i still only get 1200x1. mine is rated to handle 1 ohm though.

and that thing your talking about is bass boost. my audiobahn amp had one of those and when you turn it down there isnt much bass and it slammed with it turned up(at least with my amp).

and maybe he has the gains set low to keep the signals all real clear...?

what car you have, cus yours are firing up towards a hatch maybe? I always think that sounds louder than when they are in the trunk. and when I had them in my trunk I had them facing back cuz i heard somewhere that when ythe signal bounces off the back of the trunk oit gets amplified. dont know how it would work but did it that way since I wanted a turnk in the back still.

and I actually got a custom box going outside right now anyways and I have a 12" so that box wont work for me but its cool that they hjave them.
well gotta go build my box, later.

If they are 3 4ohm subs, which I assume they are not. it would not be 1.3 ohms and .65ohms but instead 1 ohm and .5 ohms. I think those are rated at 3ohms each right? don't remember.

ok, isnt 2 4 ohm DVC's parallel-paralleled 1 ohm? thats 4 4 ohm coils to 1 ohm. I thought for parallel it was load/number of coils.

I am almost 99.9% positive that 3 4 ohm subs are 1.3 ohms.

because 1 6 ohm DVC can be wired to 3 ohms, 2 of them bring it to 1.5, and 3 of them give you the one ohm load.

6/2=3, 6/4=1.5, 6/6=1

If they are 3 4ohm subs, which I assume they are not. it would not be 1.3 ohms and .65ohms but instead 1 ohm and .5 ohms. I think those are rated at 3ohms each right? don't remember.

to answer your question, no, these are 3 4 ohm subs, the 10 w7 are the ones that are 3 ohms. currently jl only makes three subs that are 3 ohms which are the 8, 10, and 12 w7. to find the ohm load all i did was splice (divide) the ohm by how many speakers or coils there are. for example, lets say u have two 4 ohms subs, to find the ohm load divide the 4 ohm by two which is 2. in this case i have 3 four ohm subs, i divided the four by 3 which is now 1.33333333........ get it? and for proof heres a link to a discontinued 10w1 model which has the same four ohm load.

http://www.jlaudio.com/subwoofers/pdfs/10W1_BDS.pdf

heres what i know, the pioneer is a 100x2 @ 4 ohms, 200x2 @ 2 ohms, and 300x1 @ 4 ohms. the amp can handle a 1 ohm load so thats awesome. by doing some math the 300x1 @ 2 ohms would be 600x1, at 1 ohm this would be 1200x1. but since my subs are asking a 1.3 ohm load this would be at around 1000 watts. im not sure but that is a lot of power now that i think about it. maybe thats why mine sounds so much better. check it out, see what u guys get? maybe im missing some process somewhere.
oh by the way, i did say i was getting another amp but the reason is because this amp is acting up, now i know why. every few minutes the bass would come off and on. i open the back panel up and discovered that one of the big round capacitor in there was bulging out and was leaking but now a dried black thick liquid similar to molasses. my inference would be that the amp is sorta blown. i don't want touch that cap since it hold eletrical current and can shock the freak out of me if i try to remove or replace it. any ways, i have no idea where to get another cap and don't know anyone or shop who can repair this.

heres the specs of the amp if u want to see it
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4055_34442_tab=B,00.html?compName=PNA_Prod uctDetailComponent

I'm thinking 2 4ohm subwoofers parallel to themselves and paralllel 2 each other... If that makes sense.

ok, 2 4 ohms suns parallel to each other is 2 ohms, you fant them parallel them to themselves. unless they are DVC which you didnt statre, then it is parallel-parallel, parallel each sub on itself and parallel them together which is the same thing as paralleling 2 2 ohm SVC subs which is 1 ohm.

just looked at the specs and now im no longer confused. I was wondering about the 200x2@2 ohms and 300x1@ 4 ohms but now i see it is realy 150x2@2 ohms.

and I dont knoiw exactly how it was done, but half the load increased the power by 50%, so the next step MIGHT be 225x2@1 ohm, which is 450x1@2 ohms. then it MIGHT go to [email protected] ohms which would be 675x1@1ohm. so you might be getting somewhere around that, but maybe its does start doubling the power when cuting ohm load in half in which case yes youd have about 1200x1@1 ohm so maybe 1k to your subs.

and if your amp is constantly cutting in/out then you either dont have enouhg power going to it or it is overloading and shutting itself off for protection,but the molassses sounds like maybe its hapened too much and is damaged now. but also maybe it doesnt oincrease anymorew at all, min doubles from 4 to 2 ohms but from 2 to 1 ohm it doesnt increase at all.

just looked at the specs and now im no longer confused. I was wondering about the 200x2@2 ohms and 300x1@ 4 ohms but now i see it is realy 150x2@2 ohms.


hey thanks for catching that, i guess i got mixed up with the orion's output some how which are 100x4 @ 4ohms and 200x4@ 2ohms.

I think most amps are like that, my old pioneer is 35x2@4 ohms and 70x2@2 ohms.

The enclosure plays a big part of it. The JL Audio W7 does not like midbass (wasn't designed to play midbass). Thats why you preceive it has hitting harder or tighter or whatever.

Its just the nature of the W7 that it doesn't hit "tight" as the other subs. Thats what it was made for, all Sound quality.

actually just checkec and my pioeer is 35x2@4 ohms and 80x2@2 ohms

The enclosure plays a big part of it. The JL Audio W7 does not like midbass (wasn't designed to play midbass). Thats why you preceive it has hitting harder or tighter or whatever.

Its just the nature of the W7 that it doesn't hit "tight" as the other subs. Thats what it was made for, all Sound quality.


yes the box has a large part to do with it, but the main thing is the speaker itself. the w7 has a a huge rubber surround letting the cone's excursion distance move more greatly than mine causing it to have that deeper bass.

the JL W7 uses foam surrounds.

Its not so much that the subwoofer is limited by the surround. Infact, almost every sub made is limited by it's spider. But thats not the point. More excursion will only yield more output, but not low-end extension.

Deeper bass is produced by the frequency response, particularly dependant of the box. The W7 has the ability to have that "deeper" bass because of it cone mass and it's suspension compliance. More mass will yield a lower Fs, making it able to increase output (in freq. response) at the lower frequency. That's what the W0 is missing. They were not made for low-end like the W7.

Infact, many subs you see today that does well at the lower octave (Adire Audio Brahma, JL Audio W7, RE XXX, Stryke AV-series, etc) because of their moving mass.

Point is, the W7 isn't going to get super tight like the IDMAX, simply because JL had pure SQ in mind, and that was the outcome of the W7. Subwoofer are made to play subbass, and thats exactly what the W7 does best.

the JL W7 uses foam surrounds.


i wasn't sure what the surround was made of, i just took a guess and rubber came to mind. well anyways if any of u guys have a shop that sells jl audio then go compare them, u will definately be surprised how well 3 10w0's sound compared to a 10 w7. one thing i do miss are the w4's, wonder why they discontinued those? :screwy:

I like the W3's

hey 94tegrs, it could be just me, but i haven't seen u in the integ forum in a while. what happen, are u only going for sound now or something?

well, I quit qorking on my current teg. the only reason im doing the system in it is cuz my next car is gonna be a teg sedan. I know it sounds crazy to sell one if im jkust gonna get the same thing, but I was visiting my cousins down in CA and saw how cheap clean tegs are down there.

mine just has things like little dings here and there, a small crack in the winshield, the synchros make some good noise to 3rd and sometimes 2nd. mileage isnt actual on title(doesnt say salvage though so im not suire whats up), a motor mounts broke.

and I can sell mine up here, go down ot CA and get a mint 4 door 5 speed with less(actual) miles and have cahs in my pocket.

I saw one coupe, 95 i think, 5 speed, 80k, mint, lowered, 17's for 4200obo, some cheaper but all stock. which is cool for me since id get to choose it ALL. I think im gonna stay with the sedan though, I like not having to get out and pull my seat up. plus the amp/cap rack and sub box fit perfectly on the back seat and in the trunk of the sedan.

I dont know all the details but looks clean and its a GSR sedan for 4950
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=153000847&dealer_id=1359364&car_year=1995&make=ACURA&distance=100&max_price=5500&model=&advcd_on=n&end_year=2005&min_price=&first_record=26&address=90026&search_type=used&advanced=n&start_year=1994&=&color=&cardist=100

mint condition sedan for 3500. its purple but that cheap il have it repainted... rosewood brown metallic. lol

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=152971367&dealer_id=&car_year=1994&make=ACURA&distance=100&max_price=5500&model=&advcd_on=n&end_year=2005&min_price=&first_record=26&address=90026&search_type=used&advanced=n&start_year=1994&=&color=&cardist=27

its a shame this ones a auto.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=152964225&dealer_id=&car_year=1994&make=ACURA&distance=100&max_price=5500&model=&advcd_on=n&end_year=2005&min_price=&first_record=26&address=90026&search_type=used&advanced=n&start_year=1994&=&color=&cardist=8

well I wont put up anymore but you got the idea. I sold my old RS with 120k, boltons/rims and a front bumper along with a few other minor things for 8300 and it went the next day.

the white is sweet and so is the black, don't know about the purple though.

I found a red 1 owner with all service records and and alarm and 17's for 4100 bucks. doesnt say the mileage though.

and the white one is the best out of the 3. I wont do automatic and the purple one would get painted the day I got back up here with it.