Here´s a comparison between the Ford Focus ZX5, Citroen Xsara, and Seat Leon (built by VW in the Golf platform)

This is the Leon
Built in the Golf platform
It has multiple engines choices. The more powerfull is a VW 2.8 V6 204HP

The Leon and Citroen Xsara.
The Xsara is a bestseller in Europe.
It was restyled for 2001, and introduced in late 1997.
The most powerfull version is the VTS 2.0L 16v 167HP

You all now the Focus. It´s more powerfull version is the S2 and SVT.
It was european car of the year 1999.
It´s the best seller vehicle in the world.

The Peugeot 307
A Great Value.
All new for 2002.
European car of the year 2002 award.
Most powerfull engine (GTi): 2.0L 138HP
The 307 WRC is way more powerfull obviously

The Renault Megane
It´s an european bestseller
Like the 307, it uses the latest aditions of automotive engineering.
There´s tons of body configurations (from a hatchback to a convertible), trim levels and engine options.
The most powerfull is the 2.0L 140HP

The Opel Astra (also known as Chevrolet, Holden and Vauxhall)
Like with the Renault, there´s multiple choices of Astra (Opel GM)
Hatchback, Coupe (picture), Cabrio, Wagon, etc.
It was created to rivalize the VW Golf mainly.
The most powerfull engine is from the Coupe Turbo; a 2.0L 190HP 245kph
You can also ask for a diesel 1.6L hatchback with 84HP.:confused:

I dont think I've seen that Renault before. Thats a pretty sharp little car.

I take the Seat Leon 108 20VT........ or the Seat Leon Cupra! Why spend more money on a Golf if the Leon is ( almost ) the same.

but i wondering why you didn't picked the Alfa 147 and the BMW compact Audi A3 and Fiat Stilo?

I like alot of the body styles that european cars have.....I've never really seen european cars before....I like 'em

id say the golf.

You all know what brand my loyalties lie with:D :finger: :finger:




<--------- This one




btw-anyone else think the Citroen Xsara has had the worlds worst facelift???????

I like the looks of the Citroen Xsara. I know nothing about these cars but since that is the fact I went with looks. :) Besides they seem pretty good in the WRC even though the Focus's are doing better I hate fords.

Seat Leon. It is made by VW, and I have great respect for them. And the hot models are some of the best little stormers out there.

However, the car I would recommend (anywhere): The VW Golf with the awesome 1.9L Turbo Diesel. It makes 150hp, and approx. 240lb-ft. It will get great mileage, will get decent 0-60 times. But the real kick is in around town driving, and 99% of your highway driving. The torque at low revs will just shoot you forward. A great engine, too bad it isn't here (instead of our 90hp model.)

I've heard Opel Is pretty good, and dosen't someone on here a a picture of a model OPel V8 Astra? If so, get that one, it would smoke eveything else.

You mean the new Astra X-Treme? That car is a beast, certainly not availble but for Grand Prix or I don´t know what else (with Porshe, mod. CLK, etc)
I have a pic of a cute Astra 3door hatchback with the Sport package included.

here you go, this is based on the DTM version, were it competes the CLK's and Audi TT's. Powering the X-treme is a detuned version of the racing car's 4,0-litre V8 engine developing 326 kW. Transmitting all that power to the rear wheels is a six-speed manual gearbox. Torque is a massive 530 Nm.

just noticed this.....:rolleyes:

jajaja:D :smoker:

I like the looks of the new Holden Astra SRi

eughhhhh, Astra's. the biggest pile of shite since the Vectra. o ye, thats a vauxhall aswell(sorry, Opel, we call them Vauxhall in britain). I have had the displeasure of working with those unreliable heaps of shite. And the worst bit? England is full of the fuckin things, even tho they get shit reviews in all the magazines.
My choice has gotta be the Golf. The German engineering is second to none

What about the new MGs?

Id take a Golf (and i actually have!) but MG has made a pretty remarkable comeback... the ZR would be the appropriate MG for this comparison.
Heres the MG ZR 160: 160bhp, sharp handler, very nice car overall

http://www.km77.com/marcas/mg/mg_zr/med/3-4del.jpg

http://www.rover.at/bilder/x30_hinten.jpg

The peugeot 307 is nice and has much room inside. But there are not (yet) really powerful motors.
The Xsara has a very good handling, maybe the best of the category. Very good rally car as the Peugeot 206 which won many rallies.
The Astra is nice in coupé (by Bertone) but a little bit expensive.
The Alfa 147 is beautiful, maybe my favorite.
The Stilo is too classic.
The compact BMW, and the A3 are at the price of the superior category (like Renault Laguna, Ford Mondeo or VW Passat)...
And about MG : the ZR and ZS are too old and we are aware of that with the handling of the 80's ! The MG ZT (based on the 75) is very nice and is a good car at a good price. But Rover is alas, not in a good economic form.

handling from the 80's??
i dont know where you got that from but the ZRand ZS, particularly the latter are excellent handlers. Proof of this is by driving the 25 and 45 and seeing the improvement from the transformation of Rover into MG

Yea every car in europe is a hatchback! It's so F'ed up!

Yea every car in europe is a hatchback! It's so F'ed up!
1. That's bull. Is every car in the US a truck?
2. Theres nothing wrong with hatchbacks anyway
3. American manufacturers would do well to copy European companies to try to improve the appalling handling of American cars!

Our cars may be smaller but dynamically the majority is pretty accomplished

Actually Europe has a whole more variety in cars tha US. Most cars are hatchbacks, yes, but there´s like more than 50 models of that kind offered, and thats quite a lot.
There´s also tons of Audi´s, MB and BMW, not to mention short-minivans and sports cars.

Originally posted by Euro19
Actually Europe has a whole more variety in cars tha US. Most cars are hatchbacks, yes, but there´s like more than 50 models of that kind offered, and thats quite a lot.
There´s also tons of Audi´s, MB and BMW, not to mention short-minivans and sports cars.

Exactly, europe has its fair share of hatchbacks, but remember where Mercs, BMW's, Audi's, Ferraris, Lambo's, Aston's, Bentley's etc. come from. What variety do you have in America. Yuo seem to have pickup trucks, and big old town car type barges. The only dynamic cars you have are imported from Europe

gang$tarr, you don't seem to be openminded... nevermind, but it's a bad think to be like that.
I'm fully according with Euro19, crayzayjay, etc.
Euro19 : you have an Alfa 156 1.8 : is it a good car ? My mother would like to change her 155 2.0 TS and she hesitates between BMW 318i, a peugeot 406 coupé 2.0, and the Alfa (maybe with a JTD or a 1.8/2.0). What would be the best.

Originally posted by Stefanel1
gang$tarr, you don't seem to be openminded... nevermind, but it's a bad think to be like that.
I'm fully according with Euro19, crayzayjay, etc.
Euro19 : you have an Alfa 156 1.8 : is it a good car ? My mother would like to change her 155 2.0 TS and she hesitates between BMW 318i, a peugeot 406 coupé 2.0, and the Alfa (maybe with a JTD or a 1.8/2.0). What would be the best.

Well, i have to say i recomend best the Peugeot 406 coupe, is a great performer car, a friend of mine has one. But since I needed the convenience of 4 doors I got a sporty car, that´s the Alfa 156, if you want to buy one of those get the 2.0, it feels more sport. Anywise is a good car, handles well, etc. The BMW is good too, I think it´s a hard choice to pic between those. If you care the Alfa and Peugeot are more certainly to be renewed maybe in 2003. :p

Originally posted by crayzayjay

1. That's bull. Is every car in the US a truck?
2. Theres nothing wrong with hatchbacks anyway
3. American manufacturers would do well to copy European companies to try to improve the appalling handling of American cars!

Our cars may be smaller but dynamically the majority is pretty accomplished

Nah, I'm just saying that alot of cars in europe are hatchbacks.
When I was in Italy last year, atleast 80% of the cars were hatchbacks.

I just dont like hatchbacks

It's also weird seeing less of the good manufacturers in their own region. I see loads of BMWs and Mercedes cars everyday, while in europe all I saw was alot of old ones and the occasional newer model. Don't get me wrong there are alot of different cars in europe, but it just seems like there are alot more good cars in the US.

I also didn't see many exotics, a couple porsches, a couple Ferraris over a 3 week trip.
While everyday on the highway here I will see atleast 5 porsches, a Ferrari once a day (on average), vipers, loads of corvettes. There are a couple Lotus Esprits a see in my city often.

I dont think people in europe take advantage of the variety of cars they have to choose from

I know it's not an easy choise ;) We'll try it and do our choise. We have to sell the 155 before. But Alfa Roméo are difficult to sell that's why we're not sure to take another Alfa, although it a beautiful car. To sell a Peugeot or a BMW is far more easy.
Gangstarr : Italy is not Europe ! There are still many hatchback (not 80% !) in the EU because we have sometimes small roads (we've an history here...) and it's no use to have a longer car with a sedan : the best example is that in Roma, Paris, etc., people who have often Ferrari/Porsche/Venturi/masérati, etc. in their garage have often an Audi S3 (small but comfotable and powerfull) for a normal use. they use the Ferrari (etc.) the week-end. They don't also use these cars because there are many car jacking here. An anecdot : I know sby who wanted to buy an X5 or the new Range Rover and she finally bought a Nissan Patrol... not so luxurious but not so theft !
An example to explain also why you don't see many "big" cars in Europe : if you have US$20 000, you'll buy a Stratus whereas an European will buy the new Mini, a 206 or a Polo but well fitted ! (smaller than a Golf if you don't see what these cars are). If you have to drive and more, to park in a big town, wou'll be happy to have this car and not an S-class !

Originally posted by gang$tarr


Nah, I'm just saying that alot of cars in europe are hatchbacks.
When I was in Italy last year, atleast 80% of the cars were hatchbacks.

I just dont like hatchbacks

It's also weird seeing less of the good manufacturers in their own region. I see loads of BMWs and Mercedes cars everyday, while in europe all I saw was alot of old ones and the occasional newer model. Don't get me wrong there are alot of different cars in europe, but it just seems like there are alot more good cars in the US.

I also didn't see many exotics, a couple porsches, a couple Ferraris over a 3 week trip.
While everyday on the highway here I will see atleast 5 porsches, a Ferrari once a day (on average), vipers, loads of corvettes. There are a couple Lotus Esprits a see in my city often.

I dont think people in europe take advantage of the variety of cars they have to choose from

i think that by going to italy you may have been in the wrong country to see more fancy cars. Countries like Italy and France seem to have more hatchbacks than some other countries in Europe. Certainly in Germany, there are Mercedes and BMW's all over the place, and this is true in the UK too, with quite a few big exotic cars too. I dont know why some countries buy different kinds of car, but if you came here to the UK you would find it very different to your trip to Italy

Originally posted by Stefanel1
I know it's not an easy choise ;) We'll try it and do our choise. We have to sell the 155 before. But Alfa Roméo are difficult to sell that's why we're not sure to take another Alfa, although it a beautiful car. To sell a Peugeot or a BMW is far more easy.
Gangstarr : Italy is not Europe ! There are still many hatchback (not 80% !) in the EU because we have sometimes small roads (we've an history here...) and it's no use to have a longer car with a sedan : the best example is that in Roma, Paris, etc., people who have often Ferrari/Porsche/Venturi/masérati, etc. in their garage have often an Audi S3 (small but comfotable and powerfull) for a normal use. they use the Ferrari (etc.) the week-end. They don't also use these cars because there are many car jacking here. An anecdot : I know sby who wanted to buy an X5 or the new Range Rover and she finally bought a Nissan Patrol... not so luxurious but not so theft !
An example to explain also why you don't see many "big" cars in Europe : if you have US$20 000, you'll buy a Stratus whereas an European will buy the new Mini, a 206 or a Polo but well fitted ! (smaller than a Golf if you don't see what these cars are). If you have to drive and more, to park in a big town, wou'll be happy to have this car and not an S-class !

Yeh, Stefanel1 is right also. Big fancy cars are not always practical, as European countries are often alot more cramped than America

Originally posted by gang$tarr


Nah, I'm just saying that alot of cars in europe are hatchbacks.
When I was in Italy last year, atleast 80% of the cars were hatchbacks.

I just dont like hatchbacks

It's also weird seeing less of the good manufacturers in their own region. I see loads of BMWs and Mercedes cars everyday, while in europe all I saw was alot of old ones and the occasional newer model. Don't get me wrong there are alot of different cars in europe, but it just seems like there are alot more good cars in the US.

I also didn't see many exotics, a couple porsches, a couple Ferraris over a 3 week trip.
While everyday on the highway here I will see atleast 5 porsches, a Ferrari once a day (on average), vipers, loads of corvettes. There are a couple Lotus Esprits a see in my city often.

I dont think people in europe take advantage of the variety of cars they have to choose from

Yet another uninformed and ignorant post from mister "Rich guy":rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Italy, like mentioned, is not Europe, in Italy all they seem to drive is FIAT Pandas or Punto's, but that is nuttty Itallians for you, but go to Switzerland, France or the UK and see just how superior these cars are to the shit-box trucks and American made shit (Or barstardised Jappers) that are North America, cars like Peugeot's, Smart's, Alfa Romeo's, Citroen's, Renaults, Rover's and Volkswagens come out in force in Europe and even smaller BMW's and Merc's, which make for a far more interesting trip down their fabulous roads (If we forget Portugal)

Of course Europe is not the onl place they are buying small, New Zealand is another place that has sorta-turned to small-cars, even if we still buy our Maxima's, Falcons and Commodores in force, slaes for cars like the Mondeo, Echo, 2O6, Golf, Polo, Stilo, 147, Clio, Astra, Barina and 3O7 to name a few have begun to skyrocket, which makes my trip's that little more interesting, now I have my balance of Japper's and Euro's

Originally posted by Pennzoil GT-R


i think that by going to italy you may have been in the wrong country to see more fancy cars.

I've also been in England (London), France and switzerland.
I know it's not as bad there

I'm just used to the way roads and cars are here.
people have different opinions it's not a big deal

When I went to switzerland, there were twice as many audis as there were Mercs and Beemers. Plenty of big jags in london too.

yeh, u get loads of the british cars like jags and range rovers in britain. Anyone with any kinda money in England seems to have a Range Rover

I dont think people in europe take advantage of the variety of cars they have to choose from

one word: BULL
spend a day in london and you'll see so much exotica you'll want to live there forever

Originally posted by crayzayjay

spend a day in london and you'll see so much exotica you'll want to live there forever

Well I did and I didn't see that much "exotica"

I see more here, not counting the 100s of boxsters driving around

Have you ever been to New York, L.A. or any cities in the U.S.?

Originally posted by gang$tarr


Well I did and I didn't see that much "exotica"

I see more here, not counting the 100s of boxsters driving around

Have you ever been to New York, L.A. or any cities in the U.S.?

i think what kind of cars you see depends on the areas you go to. same as any city, if you go to East London for example, you will not see anything special, but if you go to Hyde Park, Knightsbridge, Chelsea etc. there are Porsches, Ferraris, etc. everywhere you look. From what i have seen of the US, the same is true over there

Originally posted by Pennzoil GT-R


i think what kind of cars you see depends on the areas you go to. same as any city, if you go to East London for example, you will not see anything special, but if you go to Hyde Park, Knightsbridge, Chelsea etc. there are Porsches, Ferraris, etc. everywhere you look. From what i have seen of the US, the same is true over there

That's very true, I was only in London for a little while and mostly just in the downtown areas. We stayed at the Westbury hotel, there were a few nice cars there.

I'm not saying there aren't any nice cars, I just dont think there are more.

I know the roads are horrible for exotics in Europe though (not all the roads) but for the most part. Maybe people just dont drive them as much as they do here?

Originally posted by gang$tarr


That's very true, I was only in London for a little while and mostly just in the downtown areas. We stayed at the Westbury hotel, there were a few nice cars there.

I'm not saying there aren't any nice cars, I just dont think there are more.

I know the roads are horrible for exotics in Europe though (not all the roads) but for the most part. Maybe people just dont drive them as much as they do here?

If you ever come to England again then you should visit Alderley Edge near Manchester. This is the richest area in England, and probably every 1 out of 3 cars you see are in the £50-100,000 or above price range. its like a different world there.

you are probably right in saying there are not more, but there are the same amount of exotics in europe as america. europes roads are not suited to exotics, so alot of people who have them keep them locked away for weekends etc. and use little cars to go to work during the week, hence why dont see them unless you live here full time.

Originally posted by Pennzoil GT-R


If you ever come to England again then you should visit Alderley Edge near Manchester. This is the richest area in England, and probably every 1 out of 3 cars you see are in the £50-100,000 or above price range. its like a different world there.

you are probably right in saying there are not more, but there are the same amount of exotics in europe as america. europes roads are not suited to exotics, so alot of people who have them keep them locked away for weekends etc. and use little cars to go to work during the week, hence why dont see them unless you live here full time.

Yeah, you're right.
I'm sure there are nice areas with really nice cars in every country.
I guess some of those little cars a saw driving around had sister Ferraris sitting in the garage

I guess people would just rather buy a small car for the city, and nice cars for the weekends in europe.
While here people would rather buy a bigger luxury cruiser for everyday
I think our roads are more suited for for that.

So how do the sales for S-Class Mercedes and other large cars go in Europe? because I see them here everyday, but when I went there I didn't see many (if any, i don't remember)

Originally posted by gang$tarr


So how do the sales for S-Class Mercedes and other large cars go in Europe? because I see them here everyday, but when I went there I didn't see many (if any, i don't remember)

The S-class has really took off. They are everywhere, even in the not so good areas. All the directors seem to have them. 7 series arent so common, and Audi A8's arent either. I think the S-class has pretty much flooded the luxury market in Europe

Originally posted by gang$tarr



I know the roads are horrible for exotics in Europe though (not all the roads) but for the most part. Maybe people just dont drive them as much as they do here?
Someone obviously has not been to Monte Carlo and ridden in a BMW 540i taxi:rolleyes:

In a 540i Taxi ???? I know sby who has a 540 and if a taxidriver has that, he will banquerouted ! He must have a gazoil 5 series, a 520d, 525d or 530d : there are many in Europe because of the price of the gas !
The S-Class are good sold (many in Paris, but not in the "poor" parts !). The new serie 7 starts well. But again, people who have these cars will use smaller cars (the best example is the Audi S3) to drive in Paris and suburbs : more "fun" to drive, more agility, and in Paris you have to drive not slow, not like in the US, that's a big difference.
An example to end : my neibours have an Audi A6 Avant, a Z3 and a Peugeot 206 S16 : they use the Peugeot to work !

Originally posted by Stefanel1

in Paris you have to drive not slow, not like in the US, that's a big difference.
An example to end : my neibours have an Audi A6 Avant, a Z3 and a Peugeot 206 S16 : they use the Peugeot to work !

That's the difference, here people would have the Z3 for fun on weekends, then drive the A6 daily. We need a big comfortable luxury cruiser for everyday to get to work :)

Moss: I went to Monaco last spring break (March), I was talking about that place. Monaco is like a country for the rich, right when we got to our hotel there was a Ferrari 550 in front, and a Rolls-Royce parked. I didn't know it was going to be like that, my mouth dropped.

none they suck

Originally posted by Stefanel1
In a 540i Taxi ???? I know sby who has a 540 and if a taxidriver has that, he will banquerouted ! He must have a gazoil 5 series, a 520d, 525d or 530d : there are many in Europe because of the price of the gas !
The S-Class are good sold (many in Paris, but not in the "poor" parts !). The new serie 7 starts well. But again, people who have these cars will use smaller cars (the best example is the Audi S3) to drive in Paris and suburbs : more "fun" to drive, more agility, and in Paris you have to drive not slow, not like in the US, that's a big difference.
An example to end : my neibours have an Audi A6 Avant, a Z3 and a Peugeot 206 S16 : they use the Peugeot to work !

On the Taxi, it did present a case of supsision for me as well, despite the badging, it lacked some pure V8 grunt, who ever knew that taxi's would be affected by the ricer bug as well:D :D

G$: Why is it that North Americans have such a fixation on big cars????

But G$ while you make a good point, the roads of Europe are narrow compared to the US and it is a pain in the ass to navigate a big car through them, still I don't know why Stephanel's nieghbours would own an A6 AND a 2O6, I mean why what purpose does thier A6 serve if it isn't daily driven or a weekend fun car????:confused:

NSX-R-SSJ20K: shut the hell up, you live in Texas, where all the cars the people drive are SUV's and pick-up trucks and I think they suck so :finger4: until you have driven at least ONE of these cars stay the hell away from this thread

Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi

G$: Why is it that North Americans have such a fixation on big cars????

But G$ while you make a good point, the roads of Europe are narrow compared to the US and it is a pain in the ass to navigate a big car through them, still I don't know why Stephanel's nieghbours would own an A6 AND a 2O6, I mean why what purpose does thier A6 serve if it isn't daily driven or a weekend fun car????:confused:


I dunno, I think it's because we have big roads and we need cars that fill them lol :)

I think cars are getting smaller here, not counting SUVs ;)

Honda Civics are the best selling cars, but it doesn't get any smaller than that.

I can see how it would be a pain in the ass to drive around a big car in europe though, so I guess it would make sense to have a small car in the city.

I saw alot of those Mercedes A-Class cars last time I was in Europe, I guess some of those people have the better cars sitting at home.

Seems to suit the European needs perfectly
That car would not do well in North America though, that's for sure.

speaking of the A-Class, i saw one a couple months ago. i have no idea why it was in southern texas. it did have european plates though. i did a double-take and then realized it was an A-Class.

It's absolute crap to say that Europe's roads arent suited to exotics and the US's are. Twisty mountain roads, found pretty much in every European country are where you want to drive your supercar, not highways.

Its the same in any big city. Driving a supercar/exotic car is just not appropriate, whether its the US or UK. WHat happens in London is that people buy these cars anyway because its obviously a very wealthy city

We like *our* big cars because they're cheap, comfy, and easy to drive. With us, driving is a chore. If we had it our way, driving to work would require no more effort than an automatic toilet.

Plus we're a huge country with long, wide highways. If you lived in new york and wanted to visit you're relatives in L.A. what would use to get there? A crown victoria or a GTI? (and the vic only costs about $2000 more).

when i say that europe's roads arent suited to exotics i mean:

the cars are too much of a handful for everyday use on the small windy roads that are so common in europe, but european roads ARE perfect if you want to have some fun every so often

Originally posted by crayzayjay
It's absolute crap to say that Europe's roads arent suited to exotics and the US's are. Twisty mountain roads, found pretty much in every European country are where you want to drive your supercar, not highways.

Its the same in any big city. Driving a supercar/exotic car is just not appropriate, whether its the US or UK. WHat happens in London is that people buy these cars anyway because its obviously a very wealthy city

What?! Every single person I've talked to from Europe has told me that their roads are not very good, especially for low cars.
Not every road, but alot of them.

Whenever people visit here from Europe they say our roads are really smooth and wide compared to theirs which are less maintained and rather bumpy in the cities.

I'm not saying that all the roads in Europe are bad, but I've drivin there and it's not as easy as in the U.S. I can see how you would rather have a higher, smaller car to get around in the city.

People here will drive their exotics anywhere, cause the roads are pretty open everywhere (except for traffic)
I see more in big cities than any other places.


I think it's more of an ego thing here though, a rich guy with a Ferrari won't drive in his eyes, a cheap little car. He'll cruise to work in his 750iL or S500. Then take out his Ferrari when it's sunny and warm out.


Most people here just want to be comfortable, you don't want to be stuck in traffic or driving a long distance in a little car. You would rather be in a roomy car, with comfortable leather seats, and all the luxuries, like somebody mentioned before.

by saying europes roads are not suited to exotics i mean that the cars are a handful for every day use on the twisty roads, but the roads are perfect for occasional use

...deleted...

gang$tarr>

First of all we have to establish whether exotics are made to be driven in the city or on twisty roads. Here in the Uk the roads in major cities, though overcrowded are perfectly smooth to drive on. Dont be fooled into thinking everyone drives a hatchback, there are thousands of people who cruise to work in their beemers, mercs, porsches etc at an average speed of 5-6 mph. There are also many bendy roads around here to drive your fast car on, which unless ive lost my mind is what they were meant for in the first place. Track days are becoming more and more popular, with an increasing number of people buying an out-and-out racer to take on the track at weekends. this is why im saying theres a greater variety, if not in numbers (who knows) of exotics in the UK than ive seen anywhere else.

Pennzoil>
by saying europes roads are not suited to exotics i mean that the cars are a handful for every day use on the twisty roads, but the roads are perfect for occasional use
I dont really agree with that. First of all no one really drives flat out in their exotic on these twisties EVERY DAY, and when they decide to put their foot down they're driving the car like its meant to be drive. Even supercars nowadays are relatively easy to drive on ANY ROAD (if youre not pushing) so i think the roads in the UK at least are perfectly suited to them.

But G$ is right a majority of the cars here in Italy are FIAT Panda's and hatchbacks, but there are a few nice Lancia's, Maserati's and Ferrari's here and there

I dont think that many people who live in the States appreciate small cars. Ok, leaving out the panda there are very many hatchbacks that would teach some of the American manufacturers a thing or two about making cars

Originally posted by crayzayjay
gang$tarr>

First of all we have to establish whether exotics are made to be driven in the city or on twisty roads. Here in the Uk the roads in major cities, though overcrowded are perfectly smooth to drive on. Dont be fooled into thinking everyone drives a hatchback, there are thousands of people who cruise to work in their beemers, mercs, porsches etc at an average speed of 5-6 mph. There are also many bendy roads around here to drive your fast car on, which unless ive lost my mind is what they were meant for in the first place. Track days are becoming more and more popular, with an increasing number of people buying an out-and-out racer to take on the track at weekends. this is why im saying theres a greater variety, if not in numbers (who knows) of exotics in the UK than ive seen anywhere else.


I dont think that many people who live in the States appreciate small cars. Ok, leaving out the panda there are very many hatchbacks that would teach some of the American manufacturers a thing or two about making cars

Well Jay you are half right in your first Paragraph- In the UK a lot of people drive 5 series, E Classes and A6's and all that to work, but in EUROPE the hatch is the way to go and especially in Italy and France where if they are going to drive a Luxury car it will be a Kappa, 6O7, Safrane, Vel Statis or XM. And the UK has one hell of an awesome rage of exotics as well I must say after reading the July 2002 issue of CAR :) And you should consider yourself lucky, in NZ it is a Porsche or Maserati or some high-performance Jap car- OR if you can wait a few years a Ferrari, Rolls, Bentley or Lambo.

As for Paragraph 2: More power to ya!!!!!! These hatchbacks are far better than any Yank Tank and hell even the Panda could show the Yanks a thing or two about rust-proofing and reliabilty :bloated: (Yes even if it is a rust-bucket)

crayzayjay:First of all no one really drives flat out in their exotic on these twisties EVERY DAY, and when they decide to put their foot down they're driving the car like its meant to be drive. Even supercars nowadays are relatively easy to drive on ANY ROAD (if youre not pushing) so i think the roads in the UK at least are perfectly suited to them.

Seeing as youre from the UK you will know as well as anyone wot the cops r like now for speeding. Speed isnt always practical anymore as the roads are windy. You will know that it wouldnt be a good experience fighting with the clutch in a Lamborghini Diablo round the streets of London at rush hour, or having to fight with it round the twisty commuter routes from Milton Keynes, Essex etc. every day. The roads are becoming more and more congested in the UK, and cameras are cropping up on alot of the best driving roads. TRUE exotics (read Lambo's, faster Ferraris etc.) are horrible to handle at lower speeds. I know a guy with an F40 and it is almost undriveable below 75, and many supercars are like this. I agree that 911's etc. are easy to drive, but i dont class them as TRUE supercars anymore (except GT2's, GT1's and the like). A supercar is designed to be driven fast, and the handling shows in them, they dont like having to crawl to work every day at 30mph. When the car is going for it flat out then there probably arent any better roads in the world than the Welsh mountain passes, but they are a pain in the arse if youre going anything less than flat out.

Anyway, there is my views on it, i could probably have said all that lot in a couple of sentences but never mind:)

Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi


As for Paragraph 2: More power to ya!!!!!! These hatchbacks are far better than any Yank Tank and hell even the Panda could show the Yanks a thing or two about rust-proofing and reliabilty :bloated: (Yes even if it is a rust-bucket)

Why do you guys hate the United States?
Seems like you guys will critisize anything that's done in the U.S. lol

Why were american cars even brought into this thread?

Most people around here drive European and Japanese anyway

Originally posted by gang$tarr


Why do you guys hate the United States?
Seems like you guys will critisize anything that's done in the U.S. lol

Why were american cars even brought into this thread?

Most people around here drive European and Japanese anyway

no idea y we hate american cars, and not all of us do. its probably the same kinda reason why alot of u guys thinks vipers and vettes are the best cars in the world! i guess we all think our own manufacturers are best

Originally posted by gang$tarr


Why do you guys hate the United States?
Seems like you guys will critisize anything that's done in the U.S. lol

Why were american cars even brought into this thread?

Most people around here drive European and Japanese anyway


I don't HATE the US as such, I just think they made mediocre half-assed cars (If we forget C5 'Vette and Viper) I mean look at the interior of a brand new Mustang- IT IS BARELY ON PAR WITH A YUGO!!! and don't even start me on the fact they are still using live rear-axles and pushrod engines........OR the 3-speed Auto found on the Neon before they removed the ugly POS from the New Zealand market-place

And ermmmmm................I think you may have jusssssst bought them into the thread:D

^^^you get the TRIPLE ROLL :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi



I don't HATE the US as such, I just think they made mediocre half-assed cars (If we forget C5 'Vette and Viper) I mean look at the interior of a brand new Mustang- IT IS BARELY ON PAR WITH A YUGO!!! and don't even start me on the fact they are still using live rear-axles and pushrod engines........OR the 3-speed Auto found on the Neon before they removed the ugly POS from the New Zealand market-place

And ermmmmm................I think you may have jusssssst bought them into the thread:D

I just found a picture of the interior of a new mustang since I've never been in one, and it doesn't look that bad to me. Not great, but for the price I don't think it's bad. Barely on par with a Yugo? I doubt that.
I dont know why you're mentioning Neons, thats like me talking about the biggest piece of shit car that comes out of europe and saying that european cars are like that.

I dont know why I'm defending American cars since I dont think my family has ever owned one, but there are decent cars like the Cadillac DTS with Nightvision, Escalade, Lincoln LS.

both European and Japanese cars are generally better than American, and I'd choose Euro or Jap over American.

I dont even remember what we were originally talking about, I just think people drive nicer cars here, seems like there are more nice cars.
That was my opinion.... me thinks

The Toyota Camry only sold 1000 units in England last year, and 400000+ in the US. I believe this is a good example of the differences. And pushrods are good, the Marcos used them, Ultima does, etc, etc. Also, the Panoz GTR uses them. The 3800 series GM engine makes as much hp and more torque than comparative European engines and it gets better mileage. So leave pushrods alone:alien2:

^^preach it moddy :D


(except for the pushrod part)

Originally posted by Chris
The Toyota Camry only sold 1000 units in England last year, and 400000+ in the US. I believe this is a good example of the differences. And pushrods are good, the Marcos used them, Ultima does, etc, etc. Also, the Panoz GTR uses them. The 3800 series GM engine makes as much hp and more torque than comparative European engines and it gets better mileage. So leave pushrods alone:alien2: But c'mon!!!! the pushrod technology has seldom changed since it's introduction, part of life is moving on, not living in the past, the pushrod technology should have far advanced. Hell even rotary technology has advanced more than pushrod technology :)

and fliquer- if you haven't got a valid opinion stay the f*** away from the thread thanks :) :D

Originally posted by Chris
And pushrods are good, the Marcos used them, Ultima does, etc, etc. Also, the Panoz GTR uses them. The 3800 series GM engine makes as much hp and more torque than comparative European engines and it gets better mileage. So leave pushrods alone:alien2:

Push rods may have not advanced much, but as the old sayin goes "if it aint broke don't fix it"

I was supporting Chris because I had said essentially the same thing (including the toyota camry example) in an earlier thread. So I think I have a valid reason for cheering.

America vs The World (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t11471.html)

IT IS BARELY ON PAR WITH A YUGO!!!

So this counts as a valid opinion? That statement is totally ridiculous. Comes across as hateful bashing. So I responded in kind...

Originally posted by Fliquer
I was supporting Chris because I had said essentially the same thing (including the toyota camry example) in an earlier thread. So I think I have a valid reason for cheering.

America vs The World (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t11471.html)



So this counts as a valid opinion? That statement is totally ridiculous. Comes across as hateful bashing. So I responded in kind...

Well, I have had a gawk at an LHD '99 Mustang Convertable in the States last time I was there and the door trims were coming apart and the Passenger airbag cover was loose, plus the radio looked as it if was on a slight 10 degree angle, they are even worse in RHD form, so I certainly have valid proof, great V8 though.

Quote "The 3800 series GM engine makes as much hp and more torque than comparative European engines and it gets better mileage. So leave pushrods alone":alien2:



Amen to that brother!

I love my 3800 supercharged engine! :angel:

I'm coming back !! ;) ... and I'll answer some questions.
Moss : my neighbours have an A6 Avant (station wagon) to have a car with room inside, the 206 3 doors and the Z3 are not vans !
I wanted to precisise that "little" cars are not bad cars, or cheap cars : they can be big inside, powerful, luxurious, and comfortable. But not big outside because, if you work in a big city, you'll have 2 more rooms (to park) as if you were in an 607 or E class.
Why did I choose a lancia Delta (which is a car as big as a Golf) ? because it's not small inside but not big outside. I bought this car as used car, and I could have bought an Alfa Romeo 164 for the same price, but it's too big, and also (it's important), it drinks less gas (1Euro/US$ for a liter).
Finally, the roads in Europe are boring (except for the highways with are the best in the world, at least in France) in the towns for example sometimes, but if you want to drive and play, it's good. But in the USA, the roads are very boring, straight lines, always and you drive at 30 mph... or almost.

Originally posted by LadyBuickGS
Quote "The 3800 series GM engine makes as much hp and more torque than comparative European engines and it gets better mileage. So leave pushrods alone":alien2:





But for every satisfied owner (ie. You) there are a lot of disatisfied owners of Holden Commodore/Statesman/Caprice V6's that would beg to differ, the Gen III V8 though is another example of how good pushrods CAN be with a little thought :coolguy:

Stephanel1: That answered my question quite well thanks :cool:I was picturing a sedan though :bloated: always pays to have a load-lugger
:)

Originally posted by Stefanel1
and you drive at 30 mph... or almost.

or my average speed on the highway is 75-80mph (approx. 130kph)

Originally posted by gang$tarr


or my average speed on the highway is 75-80mph (approx. 130kph)

is that you're personal average speed or the speed limit?!? the two might be very different:D When i last went to America (Florida) the limits was either 40 or 50 on the fastest roads

Average US Highway speed limit is about 65mph today. (average, not highest).

gang star, be careful, you'll have an accident : 75mph, oh, you're crazy ! ;) That's what I said, you drive slow in North America, on the highway and interstate mainly. Here (in France), the speed limit is 80-85 mph (95 in italy next year, unlimited in Germany) on the highway, and you can drive untill 100 (160 kmh) without having problems with cops. Many people drive over 100mph.

Originally posted by Stefanel1
gang star, be careful, you'll have an accident : 75mph, oh, you're crazy ! ;) That's what I said, you drive slow in North America, on the highway and interstate mainly. Here (in France), the speed limit is 80-85 mph (95 in italy next year, unlimited in Germany) on the highway, and you can drive untill 100 (160 kmh) without having problems with cops. Many people drive over 100mph.

I said that's my average speed :rolleyes:
meaning that is what I'm at just cruising comfortably, not speeding.
Most highways like the interstates are 65mph limit but most people drive at around 80mph or more (like fliquer said 65 is avg.)
and you said that the highways are 30mph? maybe in a residential area.
On highways I think the minimum speed is 45mph, otherwise you get a ticket.

Also in Dakota (I think it's Dakota) there are no limit freeways just like Germany.

Penzoil: I wouldnt compare Florida to the rest of the U.S. since that's pretty much a retirement state, and mostly old people live there :)

I'm surprised you guys can even get those little go-karts to go that fast on your highways haha

Originally posted by Stefanel1
gang star, be careful, you'll have an accident : 75mph, oh, you're crazy ! ;) That's what I said, you drive slow in North America, on the highway and interstate mainly. Here (in France), the speed limit is 80-85 mph (95 in italy next year, unlimited in Germany) on the highway, and you can drive untill 100 (160 kmh) without having problems with cops. Many people drive over 100mph.

95 in italy. damn u guys are lucky. last time i went to mainland europe i wasnt able to drive so i guess i neva took much notice of roads. the highest limit on UK roads is 70, with no signs of changing. cops will b on ur ass if u go above 75:(




unfortunately the autobahns arent gonna be unlimited for much longer, and the ones that are are too busy too speed on anyway

Many people drive over 100mph

I wish we could do that legally over here..

gang starr : we've not only little cars (like Twingo or Lupo) which are driving mainly in towns. But these cars ca go untill at least 100mph. And cars which are on the highways are often compact or sedans (Golf, 307, C5, E class and more). These cars can afford at least 110mph for the less powerfull.
So our "go karts" are better than you boats with a bad handling and poor motors : for example, 110 mph for a Camaro V6 : hahahaha !!! Plus, these kind of cars are drinking a lot of gas, thanks for environment and our wallet...
When I said 30mph, it was exagerated of course... I thought you saw that.
80 on an highway ? I remember driving at 85 (it was limited a 65, in nevada or California) on these roads, and I had a car of cops behind me, with all lights : I thought I had kill somebody !

I dont think you know what you are talking about...you're saying a 110 mph capacity makes your "karts" better than our "boats"? And what makes you think our "boats" are gas guzzlers? And who wants to be driving a stiffly suspensioned, cramped little golf on a long highway trip anyway?

If you want to get into a usa vs europe debate you'd better be prepared for it.

I said that because gang staar said that "our go karts" could'nt go at 100 or something like that. I don't say that the max speed is most important, and I'll never say that because it's false. But that's not because a car is small that it will not be able to go at a good speed on the Highway.
I had a Golf III and made a Paris-Mastricht at an average of 170kmh, I wasn't asleep because it's a good car. Of course, it will be a little bit better in a 607 or a 5 series, but it's not the same price.
A last thing : do not forget that many people here have a medium or big car for the WE or hollidays and a small one to go to work in big cities. Another thing, generally, the women have a small car and the men, a bigger one. I thing it's stupid but it's an explaination why you see as much little cars here.
PS : I don't want a war btw EU and US !

Originally posted by Stefanel1
gang starr : we've not only little cars (like Twingo or Lupo) which are driving mainly in towns. But these cars ca go untill at least 100mph. And cars which are on the highways are often compact or sedans (Golf, 307, C5, E class and more). These cars can afford at least 110mph for the less powerfull.
So our "go karts" are better than you boats with a bad handling and poor motors : for example, 110 mph for a Camaro V6 : hahahaha !!! Plus, these kind of cars are drinking a lot of gas, thanks for environment and our wallet...
When I said 30mph, it was exagerated of course... I thought you saw that.
80 on an highway ? I remember driving at 85 (it was limited a 65, in nevada or California) on these roads, and I had a car of cops behind me, with all lights : I thought I had kill somebody !

uh.. i was jus jokin. I said i'm surprised they can, not that they cant.

And I have no idea why you're bringing up american cars? American cars are crap for the most part.

And i never said oh we drive more chevy impalas and mustangs.... i said I see more BMWs, Mercedes, etc. around here than in europe.

You guys just have alot of little cars, while most of our cars are 3 series size.
Most cars driven around cities (well everywhere) are 3 series size here.
The highest selling cars are Honday Civics, I wouldnt call those "boats" that are driven around america.

Like somebody else mentioned in england there were a 1000 Toyota Camrys sold and here it was something like 400,000+
thats the difference right there...

FUCK!!!!!!! All you Europeans and Yanks should be bloody greatful that you can travel that fast :mad: :mad: :mad:

In New Zealand the open road and Highway spped limit is 60Mph OR 100 Km/h (Although I HAVE pushed it past 100MPH before on the Desrt Road)

Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi
FUCK!!!!!!! All you Europeans and Yanks should be bloody greatful that you can travel that fast :mad: :mad: :mad:

In New Zealand the open road and Highway spped limit is 60Mph OR 100 Km/h (Although I HAVE pushed it past 100MPH before on the Desrt Road)

lol i remember primera man sayin that its getting worse too
You guys have cameras that catch you speeding! :eek:

We had those for a couple monthes, then people complained that it's invasion of privacy and no more

i feel for you my friend.... keep your head up

Originally posted by gang$tarr


lol i remember primera man sayin that its getting worse too
You guys have cameras that catch you speeding! :eek:

We had those for a couple monthes, then people complained that it's invasion of privacy and no more

i feel for you my friend.... keep your head up

You talking about the Cops on the bridges (Overpasses behind trees) or Red light Cams? That's what we got here. Nobody I know got one, but the red light cam takes a pic of your plate as you sail thorugh the red and mails you a fine. :flipa: :mad: Damn police efficiency!

I think Primera man said that the mayor of auckland or somthin has put cameras on certain streets. If you're going more than like 5km/h (i think it's 5) over the speed limit, you get a ticket sent home. I heard that the police are making HUGE amounts of money on it doing nothing but sittin on their asses eating donuts.

I think they have some in England too but not sure

Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi


But for every satisfied owner (ie. You) there are a lot of disatisfied owners of Holden Commodore/Statesman/Caprice V6's that would beg to differ, the Gen III V8 though is another example of how good pushrods CAN be with a little thought


I've worked at GM dealerships for the past 5 years and I don't recall hearing complaints about the 3800. It's a well respected engine over here in the States.:ylsuper

Well there are two forms of Camera, one is a camera which is place high in a box which is on a pole, while the other one sits in the back of a Camry Station wagon and waits at the side of teh road (Which is the mobile version) hidden camera's were banned a while ago though:)


And LadyBuick: Here the 3.8 V6 is a V8-Underdog used only by Company Car fleets, Taxi drivers, cops and Rental Car agencies :finger:

Perhaps it is something the Aussies are doing to the engine :confused:

Originally posted by gang$tarr
I think Primera man said that the mayor of auckland or somthin has put cameras on certain streets. If you're going more than like 5km/h (i think it's 5) over the speed limit, you get a ticket sent home. I heard that the police are making HUGE amounts of money on it doing nothing but sittin on their asses eating donuts.

I think they have some in England too but not sure

England is swarmin with the damn things. there is at least 1 or 2 on every road that has a half decent volume of traffic. we now have them that time the distance it takes between 2 cameras and if u arrive at the second camera under the time limit you also get a ticket. a 3rd type is the one that has sensors in the road to detect speed, makin them totally invisible. the government has planned to increase the number of them by a factor of 7 in the next couple of years, so as u can imagine england is a pretty shitty place 2 drive/live right now.

one good thing is the cameras cant detect cars going over 170 mph, so i guess ill have to drive at that speed from now on!:D :D

Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi
And LadyBuick: Here the 3.8 V6 is a V8-Underdog used only by Company Car fleets, Taxi drivers, cops and Rental Car agencies :finger:

Perhaps it is something the Aussies are doing to the engine :confused:

Maybe it is the Aussies doing something to the engine... Who knows??


I highly doubt that the car fleets, taxis, cops, & rental car agencies have ever used the 3.8 v-6 w/ the supercharged engine. It's much faster.
:flipa: Back at ya!

Originally posted by LadyBuickGS


Maybe it is the Aussies doing something to the engine... Who knows??


I highly doubt that the car fleets, taxis, cops, & rental car agencies have ever used the 3.8 v-6 w/ the supercharged engine. It's much faster.
:flipa: Back at ya!


actually cops use the Commodore S with the supercharged engine and you can lease them as well

Originally posted by Pennzoil GT-R


England is swarmin with the damn things. there is at least 1 or 2 on every road that has a half decent volume of traffic. we now have them that time the distance it takes between 2 cameras and if u arrive at the second camera under the time limit you also get a ticket. a 3rd type is the one that has sensors in the road to detect speed, makin them totally invisible. the government has planned to increase the number of them by a factor of 7 in the next couple of years, so as u can imagine england is a pretty shitty place 2 drive/live right now.

one good thing is the cameras cant detect cars going over 170 mph, so i guess ill have to drive at that speed from now on!:D :D

That's insane!
They're controlling your lives as drivers, hasnt somebody tried to argue this?
People shouldnt be told what to do!

Hope it gets better :eek:

the government has planned to increase the number of them by a factor of 7 in the next couple of years, so as u can imagine england is a pretty shitty place 2 drive/live right now.

Thats crazy. How could u Brits let your government do that? Speed detection should be low on the list of "STUFF TO DO WITH YOUR TAX MONEY". That would never happen in the USA.

Originally posted by Fliquer


Thats crazy. How could u Brits let your government do that? Speed detection should be low on the list of "STUFF TO DO WITH YOUR TAX MONEY". That would never happen in the USA.

we havent got a choice. people do speak out, some people even rip them down or ram them, but the government wont listen. problem is is they make so much damn money of them. they got reelected cos there is no real other alternative government at the moment, so they keep on with the same money making scheme whilst disguising it as "road safety".

Wow, you are getting screwed royally.

Originally posted by Pennzoil GT-R


we havent got a choice. people do speak out, some people even rip them down or ram them, but the government wont listen. problem is is they make so much damn money of them. they got reelected cos there is no real other alternative government at the moment, so they keep on with the same money making scheme whilst disguising it as "road safety".

I'm pretty sure those go against your human rights and they are invasion of privacy.
Thats why we had them on some highways for a couple monthes and they were gone, because people said that as a human you have the right to make decisions for yourself and no other human should be able to control that.

I think alot of people took the government to court for that (invasion of privacy, etc.)

I feel for you... fight the power!

Originally posted by gang$tarr


I'm pretty sure those go against your human rights and they are invasion of privacy.
Thats why we had them on some highways for a couple monthes and they were gone, because people said that as a human you have the right to make decisions for yourself and no other human should be able to control that.

I think alot of people took the government to court for that (invasion of privacy, etc.)

I feel for you... fight the power!

Sorry, but there is no fighting the stubborn governments of NZ, but I kind of feel better that the cameras won't snap you unless you are exceeding the limit by 10 km/h and in Aucklands traffic congested main roads you will never get past 50 in your life, that siad, they are still worthless crap that are ripping off the NZ taxpayer and the government is clearly putting fuck-all back into the roads because they still are awful :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: Although a lot of speed cameras lenses get spray-painted over by vandals :D:D:D


The lesson for NZer's is- NEVER VOTE LEFT WING!!!!!!!!

nah, they arent against our human rights. thats the problem with our government, our prime minister (president) is too busy lickin george bush's arse to do anythin that the people want, and the rest of the government make the laws to suit themselves, and if they dont get the money from you one way they will get it another. the cameras are just an easy way to make lots of money, so they cover themselves with laws to make sure noone dares take them on. the cameras are always hidden behind trees etc. and there are enough road accidents for the government to justify them.

they even put them on motorways now, which just makes people slam their brakes on at 70mph plus to avoid getting caught by them, causing more accidents:rolleyes:

No speed cameras in Canada:D
That makes me happy.

However, you CAN make your license plate invisible. You can buy a clear plastic plate from a Canadian company, and it makes the plate unreadable by cameras but fine for people. If anyone is serious, I can find the number\website.

Originally posted by Chris
No speed cameras in Canada:D
That makes me happy.

However, you CAN make your license plate invisible. You can buy a clear plastic plate from a Canadian company, and it makes the plate unreadable by cameras but fine for people. If anyone is serious, I can find the number\website.

Yup I am getting one of those soon, I found an add in a ca magazine, no more cameras for me :D Actually if I drive past a Camry with a camera, the gy in the drivers seat can still get my number :(

Originally posted by Chris
No speed cameras in Canada:D
That makes me happy.

However, you CAN make your license plate invisible. You can buy a clear plastic plate from a Canadian company, and it makes the plate unreadable by cameras but fine for people. If anyone is serious, I can find the number\website.

wot is the website please? this would make mine and alot of other british driver's lives a hell of a lot easier. Thanx:D

U have to be very careful with those things.... its like those people that apply gloss over their plate so when they get flashed the plate comes out very bright, unreadable.. when the police reverse the polarity the plate can be read and the driver is in a lot of trouble... i.e find out if it really works before trying it

Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi


Yup I am getting one of those soon, I found an add in a ca magazine, no more cameras for me :D Actually if I drive past a Camry with a camera, the gy in the drivers seat can still get my number :(

Yeah but he thinks the camera is snapping away and he wont bother :)

Originally posted by gang$tarr


Yeah but he thinks the camera is snapping away and he wont bother :)


Yes good point :D :D

Also if you look into the interior of the car the drivers seat is reclined and it looks like the copper is asleep :finger:

Originally posted by gang$tarr


I'm pretty sure those go against your human rights and they are invasion of privacy.
Thats why we had them on some highways for a couple monthes and they were gone, because people said that as a human you have the right to make decisions for yourself and no other human should be able to control that.

I think alot of people took the government to court for that (invasion of privacy, etc.)

I feel for you... fight the power!


BAHAHAHAHA....Good to see that you still know how to post up on subjects that you know nothing about....If they hadspeed cameras in Canada,would the famous BMW 328ci appear as black or blue in the photos?

Sorry about the delay, but I had to find the ad, and the AF server is going through some hard times.

the site is www.redlineauto.com (http://www.redlineauto.com)
The phone is: Orders: 1-800-725-1501
Information(Int'l): 01-613-594-7890

Fax: 613-443-0529

Originally posted by taranaki



BAHAHAHAHA....Good to see that you still know how to post up on subjects that you know nothing about....If they hadspeed cameras in Canada,would the famous BMW 328ci appear as black or blue in the photos?

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There are some people puting a CD on the interior mirror. Does it work if you don't want to be photografied ?

I seriously doubt it.

Originally posted by Stefanel1
There are some people puting a CD on the interior mirror. Does it work if you don't want to be photografied ? odd........indeed........:confused:

I just heard a rumour about that... ;)

Ive seen a lot of cars with a CD attached to the mirror, it looks pretty funny if you ask me :D

but if you think that the CD is attached to the mirror by a string, and consider that the car is accelerating, decelerating, and turning left to right the CD will sway from side to side as well as round and round, so you would have to be very lucky if the camera takes a picture of the front of your car and the CD is blocking your face because it would have to be swayed towards your face and parallel to it too! Phew! :hehe:

I'd think (if it really works) that it was to refect the flash of the radar, and so your car is not on the picture !
But I'm saying it's true. I'm just asking ;)

I didnt think of the reflection off the CD.... nice idea... still dont think it would work though :D

Another solution if you don't want to get a fine : shot the radars (an English did it) : http://actualite.free.fr/actu.pl?doc=insolite/3_2002-11-11T204112Z_01_MAT170729_RTRIDST_0_OFROE-GB-CAMERAS-SNIPER.XML
:D

Originally posted by Stefanel1
Another solution if you don't want to get a fine : shot the radars (an English did it) : http://actualite.free.fr/actu.pl?doc=insolite/3_2002-11-11T204112Z_01_MAT170729_RTRIDST_0_OFROE-GB-CAMERAS-SNIPER.XML
:D



ROFLMAO!!!!!!!:silly2: :grey: :silly2: :silly2: :silly2: :silly2:

Ive considered doing it many a time! :rocket:

funny article....

we have to make a club ! the ARCOW : Anti Radars Club Of the World. Nice isn't it ?
So we need guns, guns, and... guns ;)
Mmmh, seriously, sometimes, it's necessarely, but they want to put radars on the périphérique (ring) around Paris (do you know it ?). It's limited at 80 (50mph) and every body goes at 70 and more. What are we going to become ???! :( :D
But in London it's worse, you're almost forbiden to drive now !

yes, london is very bad. Britain in general is very anti-motorist.. the government is, anyway...

we will have to pay £5 to get into the centre of town from Feb 2003... £5 a day starts to add up very quickly!!

speed cameras are popping up everywhere... they say its to warn you of accident black spots , i.e. dangerous roads, but how does it make sense if they hide the camera behind a tree or a traffic sign!! Answer: it doesnt!

some of the speed limits are infuriating... on the way to the airport the speed limit is something like 40mph, completely ridiculous, and now they are putting bus lanes (where cars arent allowed to drive) on the motorway to further reduce the lanes and increase traffic for the motorist..

to top it all off, all road works are being done right now, and traffic lights stay red for longer, so when the £5 scheme is introduced, lights go back to normal, road works stop, and the scheme looks like a success...

if this isnt enough to enduce road rage, i dont know what is...

yes i do, cops hiding with radar guns trying to catch you out... or cops in unmarked cars following you if youre slightly over the speed limit, then sticking to your rear bumper so you accelerate more and then stopping you at the higher speed.... isnt that entrapment!?!?! :mad:

sometimes i hate driving in london... late at night though, its a dream

In France too the government is going to become anti motorist. It's not so bad as in the United Kingdom (you're not lucky !) but it's not funny at all. In Paris where I love to drive, there are more and more traffic jam (I hate !) because of the bigger busses lanes.
But this politic is "in trouble" because of our famous "Latin" behaviour ! But if you are caught by the cops, you can have a big fine if you don't know other cops who can cancel your fine !! :D

And we're sometimes "dreaming" : a politic who instored a severe law against "big speed overpass" were drinving at an average speed of 105mph on the highway between Paris and Lyon... It's not too much, but you drive at 85mph on the highway when you write a so stupid law !
But it was not this minister, it was his chauffeur ! mmhhh... they take us for stupid people (and we are sometimes) !

I f***ing hate buses!! :mad: they drive like a**holes and actually pollute as much as 100 cars (a survey found this last year), can you believe it! and the gvt says its for a cleaner london... pah!

at least if you are caught, the fine CAN be cancelled by a cop you know... here this is 100% impossible...

as for the politician who did 105mph in an 85, hes an idiot if he made the rule himself... here everyone drives 100mph on the M1 motorway, i do it and its completely safe.. the limit is supposed to be 70 and is completely ridiculous... even (most) cops drive 80 at least.... last time i was on it i was very unlucky: long trip and i got stuck behind a police driver driving 75 the entire way... no one overtook him cos they didnt want a ticket! me included :D

This politician was communist (they were 2), heum. Yes there are still ! But he's not at the government any more.

On the highway in France, you can drive untill 100 mph (160kmh) and you won't get a fine. But if you drive faster (as this politician who drove untill 130mph), you can have troubles. :(

These spid limits are stupid on the highways. Germany is the best to this point of view. They put speed limits when it's really dangerous. Hope European countries will do the same !

wow... 100mph limits.. thats pretty nice... like i said here it's 70... i thin 100 is a good limit, its fast but not insanely dangerously fast so its appropriate to most motorways


i cant believe there are still communists running around!
what was the name of the guy running for president? Le Pen? that guy was crazy :bloated:

There are still communists (not many !) : there was only two in the previous government. They are on the left of the left, they're not really communist.
But, there are some "real" : the famous Arlette laguiller... travailleurs, travailleuses... she thinks we're still living in the XIXth century :D

Le Pen arrived in the 2d turn. This is not so surprising. Indeed, they did about 17% (as every time) but this time, Jospin ("labour party") has been affected by many left lists (about 10 !).
But on the second round, Jacques Chirac won with 82% !!!! Saddam did better :D ;)

Back on topic...................To give you my honest opinion after driving all these viechles...........The FIAT Stilo is superior to the lot :) Mainly in Arabath form, but the 1.8 Manual is quite a good car

Where do you work ?? by Fiat ?!! ;)
The Stilo is a good car, but I do prefer the 307 or the Alfa 147, maybe the most beautiful current compact car.

Stilo the best?!?! No way! Not even the Abarth version! And look at the picture under my name!! In the case of the Stilo, the Abarth tag is exactly that, a tag. Because its stuck onto a very ordinary car. And that makes me furious! The Focus is better to drive, as is the Alfa. It only beats, lets see, maybe two out of the listed cars. :rolleyes:

I don't like the Focus. But that's true that the handling is not bad (exceptionnal and new for a Ford !)

I must admit I did think the handling was very good on a Focus i drove... just dont tell anyone i drove one! Or the Ka i drove as well.... ssssshhhhhhhhhh.......

You drove a Ka ????????!!!! HOUUUUUUUUUU ! :D :D

IMHO teh Stilo is best because, it holds a reliability advantage over all but the Golf (maybe Focus) it is a more inspiring drive than all but the Focus, looks better than them all, is quicker than Megane, Golf, 3O7, Xsara. Of those list, I probably say nowdays that teh Focus is the best, Golf and of course the Alfa is better than them all, but for a price:)

I don't agree... but that's your choice ;)

personally I dont think it looks better than them all.. the megane, and the xsara, thats it....

So we are agreed on it looking netter than the Megane and the Xsara, but the Focus is just plaiin butt-ugly, the Leon looks ridiculous, the 3O7 looks like somebody transplanted a 6O7 nose onto a Civic, the Golf and Astra are snooze-makingly boring. Actually I often wonder what on earth possesses people to get an Astra :(



But we can't leave the Japanese competition out wither, that being Civic, Corolla, Almera, 323, Liana and Mitsubishi Lancer.


Of course the Liana, Lancer and Almera stand no chance against thier European opposition.

However the Civic, Corolla and 323 make a very good case. the 323 and Civic both lose out in the looks department, however the Civic is by far and undisputabley the worlds most practical and comfortable Large hatch, the 3 Jappers outdo everything on the poll as far as quality/reliability is concerned (Check any ownersship survery to see what I mean) and also out-perform everything here as well (Remember we are not including the hot-hatch models at the moment. As far as dynamics go the 323 has the class wrapped up, it's a shocker how such a drivers car can look so boring :( the Corolla presents a good case in the looks department as well, if I could ever get my scanner to work I could show you NZ Autocars 4-way comparision between Golf 2.0, 3O7, Civic and Corolla, the Corolla won, the Civic and 3O7 second= and the Golf a very convincing last.


How do I place this market segment.....well........In the order of best to worst..........and not inclusing the premium models (147, A Class, BMW Compact, A3 etc....)

Stilo, Corolla, Civic, 3O7, Leon, 323, Focus, Xsara, Golf, Megane, the rest of the Japanese :)

That's only an opinion about the design of these cars.
Personnally, I would class it :
Alfa 147, Peugeot 307, Renault Mégane II (not the first except in convertible), Audi A3, VW Golf IV, Fiat Stilo,some Japanese (Civic, etc.), Ford Focus and Opel Astra (but the convertible is nice).
But, you seem to over-protect the Stilo, and you didn't answer my question : are you working by Fiat Spa ???!
A last observation : the Stilo's sales are not good except in Italy. I don't dislike this car but I do prefer a 147, a 307 or an A3...

The Stilo IS better looking than the Astra. I forgot all about it when writing that post. And the Focus, coming to think of it, though i think i hate it cos its a Ford and not on the basis of its looks. But i kind of like the new Megane (i was thinking of the old one) so i would rate looks like this:

Alfa 147
Audi A3
Golf IV
Renault Megane
Seat Leon
Fiat Stilo
Ford Focus
Toyota Corolla
Honda Civic
Vauxhall Astra


i never thought the 323 would be a good drive... do they still make em or is there a new 323 model?

stephanel1- Sorry for missing your question, but I indeed do work for FIAT Spa. I was an accountant at the Turin base a while back but then they transferred me to Genoa to run a dealership :) Also my wife has a Stilo 1.8 Manual and I quite like it :D

Jay- They indeed still do make the 323 infact, they have recently released a 2.0 SP20 model which is damned hot AS WELL as plenty of aftermarket parts from Mazdaspeed. A new 323 is expected soon it'll be called the 3 and continue with the Mazda revival in styling, started by the Mazda 6 and the upcoming 2

here are some pictures of the Mazda 2 taken by member Moss1O6GTi at the Big Boys Toys 2002 show in New Zealand

http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/951547Mazda2front.jpg

http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/747352Mazda2rear.jpg

Untill when will you be working to Fiat ??... because I have to make a training period for next hollidays (July and August 2003) and I'd like to do it by an automotive maker. It would be great if it was in Italy because I love this country é voglio imprare l'Italiano il prossimo anno !
I'm just asking... and trying :D
oh ! I have a Lancia, is it a positive point ? ;)

hey Jimmy, you work for FIAT!?!?! Dont let Lancia go down! It's in your hands!

Lancia.........I'm trying my best to like them......But to be quite honest they need a good kick in the pants, the cars are fugly, the Y is an embarassment, the Lybra is mediocre, the Thesis is far too wierd for my likeing and don't get me started on the new people mover. It really sucks what is happening to Lancia :( Especially when you consider the great cars they have made like the Delta HF Intergale, Beta Monte Carlo and Gamma Coupe :(

stephanel I'll see what I can do for you :) My contract expires in 2004 so I will hopefully be with FIAT until then, just depends on who's paying me the most ;) :D

The future Y will be nice, isn't it ?
The Lybra is not original enough, alas. But I do like the Thésis, the problem is the image, the reputation of this make which is not so good today.

... you'lml say it to me if you could take me as trainer;)

ok the Y has been left behind, but it is an ageing design... still has bags of character if you ask me.... i quite like the Lybra and Thesis, but i do know they wont set the world on fire :(

http://www.just-auto.com/images/features/oct02/0210megane738_01.jpg

Don't forget the new Megane RENAULT and his modern design!

Indeed but at the time of this poll, the new Mégane was not in sale.

Originally posted by ThomasB
http://www.just-auto.com/images/features/oct02/0210megane738_01.jpg

Don't forget the new Megane RENAULT and his modern design!

DUDE! I checked your viechle list and it says you have a Peugeot 6O7 :D- I used to own one of them :p- Awesome car indeed- what model is your one??? Mine was a V6 SE (The only model that was available in NZ at the time)

Megane is nice- but a little too radical for this conservative world :)

For your information Thomas, the V6 SE is the equivalent of the V6 Pack in our country... and the Jimmy's 607 was blue ;)

Originally posted by Stefanel1
For your information Thomas, the V6 SE is the equivalent of the V6 Pack in our country... and the Jimmy's 607 was blue ;)

make that Monaco Blue :D- and true- my 6O7 was done to British specifications :D

they drive on the wrong side of the road in NZ :D

Do not post in ancient threads.

Closed