Codes 171 & 174 too lean


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kwas
12-19-2003, 06:57 PM
Anyone else have this issue? Turns out it is very common. Ford has released a bulletin on it but has not recalled it. It is a defect that will cost you $600 plus. It is the o-rings and gaskets in fuel injection manifold and valve cover gasket.....go figure! If you had it repaired, save your receipt, maybe ford will finally own up and recall it.

Mthrgoos68
01-03-2004, 04:39 PM
I got the code 171 today at AutoZone, but not the 174. They told me that it meant that the engine just "hiccuped" and that it meant that there was probably condensation in the fuel. They told me to put a bottle of Heet in the gas tank and it should be fine. They also told me that the Engine Light should go off by itself now.

Does that sound right?

kwas
01-03-2004, 08:21 PM
171 is the 1st bank running lean. If you have the 3.8 motor, I am pretty sure it is the beginning of the leaks that cause the 174 code (other side) gaskets and seals to fail. Ford has never been able to make the 3.8 motor work! The good news is they are aware of it and have a service bulletin out on it. It probably will cost between 6-8 hundred, again assuming you have the 3.8 and it is a couple of years old. Save your receipt, maybe one day Ford will own up to their mistakes on the 3.8 and if they do a recall they will reimburse you. As far as the heat, I am pretty sure you just wasted the money!

SPCFan
02-02-2004, 08:53 PM
Can y ou tell me what the Tech Service Bulletin number is for this?

lewisnc100
02-03-2004, 07:13 AM
The TSB is for the 99-2003 model years, not sure what year everyone has. From other posts on cartrackers.com it looks like Ford is starting to cover some of the repairs making people pay for parts only. Not sure how widespread this is or if it could have been a dealer's good will to a customer. Here's a couple of links:

http://www.cartrackers.com/Forums/live/fordwindstar/1462.html

http://www.cartrackers.com/Forums/live/fordwindstar/1499.html

I don't think the TSB links work anymore but the number is 03-16-1 dated 08/18/03.

The TSB has nothing to do with the injectors, it involves changing the valve cover on 99-00 models with the old baffle design, inspecting and replacing if required the vacuum line from the intake manifold to the fuel pressure regulator, removing the upper intake to clean everything including the EGR orifices, replace the isolator bolts on the manifold and perform a PCM update. The part numbers for the TSB are:

XF2Z-9H486-AA Port Seal-Package of 6(1 Pkg Req. Per Veh)
3F2Z-9S479-AA Isolator Bolt Assy. - Package of 8 (1 Pkg Req. Per Veh)
XF2Z-9E498-DD Vacuum Line
3F2Z-6582-BA Valve Cover - LH

iam4uf
02-18-2004, 03:37 PM
I went to Ford and they stated they wouldnt cover anyof the costs. Does anyone think this is a safety issue? How can I get at least soem of this covered by Ford. Would it help to call Customer no service?

iam4uf
02-18-2004, 03:38 PM
I am getting the 171 and 174. Van is starting to miss allot when cold.

lewisnc100
02-18-2004, 03:44 PM
I went to Ford and they stated they wouldnt cover anyof the costs. Does anyone think this is a safety issue? How can I get at least soem of this covered by Ford. Would it help to call Customer no service?

Check at cartrackers.com, there have been some recent posts where someone got this fixed for the cost of the parts only, which are pretty cheap. There's also many posts on doing the repair yourself which isn't that difficult. Make sure you get a full copy of the TSB before going to the dealer, they tend to hold off a little on the BS when you have the specifics right in front of them. Calling Ford customer service wouldn't hurt either. Then there is always the route of getting the service done, marking "under protest" on the documentation when you pay, and sue since this is a defect. I'm betting that it will never get to court before they offer you a good settlement.

iam4uf
02-23-2004, 11:51 AM
I called Customer no-service and they stated that my van isnt under warrenty and that they wont cover any of the cost. I am think of doing the work my self. Anyone done the work? It says on the TSB that the PCM needs to be calibrated with the latest release. I will have to take to Ford to do that? Also, I have verified I do have the old Valve cover does that mean I need to replaces both Valve covers, front and back?

iam4uf
02-23-2004, 12:14 PM
I have read that these 171 and 174 codes that I got from Autozone are pretty generic codes and can be allot of things. I think I will take to Ford to get an exact estimate of what the problem is. Maybe I can find a garage that can give me a good estimate.

lewisnc100
02-23-2004, 12:22 PM
I called Customer no-service and they stated that my van isnt under warrenty and that they wont cover any of the cost. I am think of doing the work my self. Anyone done the work? It says on the TSB that the PCM needs to be calibrated with the latest release. I will have to take to Ford to do that? Also, I have verified I do have the old Valve cover does that mean I need to replaces both Valve covers, front and back?

Sorry you didn't have any luck, the links I sent to cartrackers.com has several posters that have done the fix. Doesn't sound difficult and the parts should be $100 or less. The only valve cover that needs to be replaced is the LH or front valve cover, about $60 including tax at the dealer. Before the new year you could find them cheaper but now they have really gone up in price, Ford is learning that their defects can be real money makers. The PCM calibration is to prevent pinging after the deposits have built up, if you aren't having pinging then I wouldn't worry about that for now. Make sure you have a good torque wrench and follow the tightening sequence closely and everything looks pretty straightforward. Good luck and take pics if you can.

iam4uf
02-24-2004, 09:50 AM
So, for anyone who has done the work themselves. What do you do exactly. Replace the front vavle cover and the vacuum hose. I am by no means a mechanic but seems to be pretty easy to do the work yourself. Would a Haynes book help with this?

iam4uf
02-24-2004, 05:45 PM
Alright everyone. I went to Ford and spoke with the head mechanic. Of course, he was very familiar with the 171 and 174. He told me not to replace the Valve cover that Ford just recommends it. He said that the only difference is the hole where the PCV vavle goes is different. He said replacing would have nothing to do with the code and the vehicle not running good. He told me I only needed to replace the Bolts and of course the seals. I cant believe the bolts were $6 each, $48 for just the bolts and another $17 for the Seals. he also printed me out the instructions on how to remove intake manifold. I am going to do the work tomorrow, ill let you know how it turns out.

lewisnc100
02-25-2004, 07:28 AM
Alright everyone. I went to Ford and spoke with the head mechanic. Of course, he was very familiar with the 171 and 174. He told me not to replace the Valve cover that Ford just recommends it. He said that the only difference is the hole where the PCV vavle goes is different. He said replacing would have nothing to do with the code and the vehicle not running good. He told me I only needed to replace the Bolts and of course the seals. I cant believe the bolts were $6 each, $48 for just the bolts and another $17 for the Seals. he also printed me out the instructions on how to remove intake manifold. I am going to do the work tomorrow, ill let you know how it turns out.

Although I agree that the improved valve cover does not eliminate the oil in the intake problem, it does reduce it. That's why I plan on replacing mine especially since the TSB is very specific about needing to replace it (quote from TSB "VALVE COVERS FITTING THIS DESCRIPTION MUST BE REPLACED"). The cause of the P0171 and P0174 problems is caused by the oil getting into the intake and being absorbed by the rubber grommets on the bolts. That's why they have a redesigned bolt, by the way verify that the bolts they gave you had green grommets on them and not black. Unfortunately they kept the same item number even though they are different. So with the improved bolts and new seal you probably won't see the leak again, but by not reducing the oil going into the intake you may see the clogged EGR ports and deposits in the combustion chambers sooner than with the improved valve cover which could lead to pinging. Good luck with the repairs and please post back with any hints.

rodeo02
02-25-2004, 10:11 AM
...The cause of the P0171 and P0174 problems is caused by the oil getting into the intake and being absorbed by the rubber grommets on the bolts. That's why they have a redesigned bolt, by the way verify that the bolts they gave you had green grommets on them and not black. Unfortunately they kept the same item number even though they are different. So with the improved bolts and new seal you probably won't see the leak again, but by not reducing the oil going into the intake you may see the clogged EGR ports and deposits in the combustion chambers sooner than with the improved valve cover which could lead to pinging. Good luck with the repairs and please post back with any hints.

Thanks Lewis, that's the best explaination of that issue yet! Now I understand the "LH valve cover replacement" thing. Is there a model year ford rectified this?
THANKS!
Joel

lewisnc100
02-25-2004, 12:39 PM
Thanks Lewis, that's the best explaination of that issue yet! Now I understand the "LH valve cover replacement" thing. Is there a model year ford rectified this?
THANKS!
Joel

Only the 99-00 came with the bad valve cover, the 01 and newer came with the improved version. Just to be sure you can remove the PCV valve and grommet from the valve cover and shine a light inside, you'll see the hole in the 5 o'clock position which I confirmed on mine.

Here's an even better write-up and solution to the oil problem, it's for the mustang but it is the same problem:

http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/pcv_filter.htm

The only problem is that our PCV hose is horizontal instead of vertical to allow the oil to drain back into the valve cover. But there is enough room under the hood to reroute it to provide for this setup. I know others have tried an in-line filter with limited success but I think the key is to get it installed vertically so the oil can drain back via the PCV valve.

iam4uf
02-26-2004, 09:48 AM
Well I did the TSB last night. Took me about 3 hours. Not that hard. The mechanic at Ford gave me a print out of the exact step by step procedure for installing new bolts and seals. Which was nice. I had allot of carbon in the ERG vavles, and there was allot of oil. Van runs allot better and with more pickup. The egine light is off, guess we will see if it stay off.

iam4uf
02-26-2004, 09:53 AM
Hey Lewis, I went to that site you posted on the valve. I think his in-line fuel filter ideal is allot cheaper than replacing valve cover. Think this would be a good idea?

lewisnc100
02-26-2004, 11:19 AM
Hey Lewis, I went to that site you posted on the valve. I think his in-line fuel filter ideal is allot cheaper than replacing valve cover. Think this would be a good idea?

Definitely, if you get that in there I wouldn't see any reason to change the valve cover assuming you have enough room to mount the filter vertically above the PCV valve. Plus even though the improved valve cover reduces the oil in the intake it doesn't eliminate it whereas this might. The new valve cover was already included on the 01 and newer Windstars yet the TSB you just did is for 99-03 models, so even the models with the improved valve cover are still having this TSB problem.

Also the frustrating part of the TSB is that you are working on the effect of the problem but never the cause. So the new bolts will keep you from getting a leak in the future, but you will still have the oil problems eventually leading to clogged EGR ports and excessive carbon deposits leading to pinging. This simple fix might be a way to eliminate the cause of the problem.

iam4uf
02-26-2004, 01:06 PM
Why does is have to vertical, mine runs horizontal no way for me to mount vertical.

lewisnc100
02-26-2004, 01:31 PM
Why does is have to vertical, mine runs horizontal no way for me to mount vertical.

On other forums many have posted that they've tried an inline filter such as this setup but it didn't relieve the oil in the intake. If you read that guys write-up in the link, the oil vapor hits the filter and then drips back down. If the line out is horizontal then the oil might not drip back down into the PCV valve but stay in the line getting sucked through the filter. I haven't tried this fix yet but from others that have tried it the trick seems to be to allow the oil droplets a way to drip back into the valve cover. I think there is enough room under the hood to install a setup similar to this that would drip back down.

iam4uf
02-26-2004, 02:54 PM
Thanks Lewis, that's the best explaination of that issue yet! Now I understand the "LH valve cover replacement" thing. Is there a model year ford rectified this?
THANKS!
Joel
I believe the new Valve covers came on the 2001 and up 3.8's.

iam4uf
02-26-2004, 02:56 PM
Im just going to bit the bullet and get the new valve cover. I think it may help in the long run. The only thing that would be left is the PCM upgrade. I dont really think its needed, anybody else have any opinions on it?

iam4uf
02-26-2004, 02:59 PM
By the way, if anyone out there does the owrk themselves, I recommend going to Ford and have them print out the procedure, it made it allot easier. I have it printed out and can try to fax to you guys if you think you need it. You can send me your fax number to ufrules@hotmail.com if you dont want to post. Ford may not give to everyone, I had a really nice tech print out for me at Ford even though he said he not suppose to.

lewisnc100
02-27-2004, 10:11 AM
By the way, if anyone out there does the owrk themselves, I recommend going to Ford and have them print out the procedure, it made it allot easier. I have it printed out and can try to fax to you guys if you think you need it. You can send me your fax number to ufrules@hotmail.com if you dont want to post. Ford may not give to everyone, I had a really nice tech print out for me at Ford even though he said he not suppose to.

Was the procedure they gave you just a printout of the TSB or did it have more info than the TSB instructions/pics?

iam4uf
02-27-2004, 12:42 PM
Was the procedure they gave you just a printout of the TSB or did it have more info than the TSB instructions/pics?

No, its was the actual procedure, step by step. Its what the Ford Techs use when they do the procedure.

iam4uf
02-27-2004, 12:44 PM
I just install new Valve cover. Looks like the only difference between the old and new is the small hole they talked out in the TSB that is positioned at 5 oclock under the PCV valve. Wonder if there is a way to cover the hole without replacing the entire valve cover. Too late for me but maybe someone else can figure out.

lewisnc100
02-27-2004, 12:53 PM
No, its was the actual procedure, step by step. Its what the Ford Techs use when they do the procedure.

I wonder what the difference is because the TSB has the full step by step procedure with illustrations. Are you going to see how it goes from here or try the inline filter as well?

iam4uf
02-27-2004, 01:18 PM
I wonder what the difference is because the TSB has the full step by step procedure with illustrations. Are you going to see how it goes from here or try the inline filter as well?
Oh, I didnt get that. The TSB I got has 1 page illsutration. The pages I got is about 6 pages with step by step instructions.

iam4uf
02-27-2004, 01:23 PM
I wonder what the difference is because the TSB has the full step by step procedure with illustrations. Are you going to see how it goes from here or try the inline filter as well?

Yes, going to see how it goes from here. Not going to do the filter becuase we may be trading the van in in about 9 Months or so. I am also going to get the PCM upgraded. The mechanis told me that its important. My local dealer is going to do it for free for all my troubles....Whoopy!

iam4uf
02-27-2004, 01:24 PM
Yes, going to see how it goes from here. Not going to do the filter becuase we may be trading the van in in about 9 Months or so. I am also going to get the PCM upgraded. The mechanis told me that its important. My local dealer is going to do it for free for all my troubles....Whoopy!
And they acted like that was some big deal. I told them they should of covered the entire thing

iam4uf
02-27-2004, 09:53 PM
Someone emailed me for TSB and they said that their dealer is going to do all the work for them and all they have to do is pay for parts. They said they told the dealer that other dealers were doing AWA. After Warranty Adjustment, aka "Recovery". Thats seemed to work for them. Maybe give that a try if you try to get your dealer to do it.

iam4uf
03-01-2004, 01:06 PM
For anyone that had Ford do the work and they covered the labor, how many miles were on your vehicle. My local Ford stated that it has to be under 50, 000 miles fot them to do the after warrenty adjustment.

iam4uf
03-02-2004, 06:25 PM
I just got my PCM reprogramed and they put a part number instead of a calibration release. Does anyone know what YU7A 12A650-EC part number is?

ccjoshua
03-10-2004, 04:10 PM
Thank you everybody!!!
I reviewed this forum and fixed my 2000 windstar.
I got code 171 and 174 first then couple days later another code 401 comes out. Ever since that, the 3.8L V6 always shudder when idle.
I called Ford and, of course, the TSB doen't mean nohing. I got sent the van to a auto shop. I paid for 250$ to have my PCV valve replaced, upper and lower intake cleaned, intake gasket replaced, EGR valve cleaned.

the most important thing is that the shop told me that my valve cover has been "updated". That is, even after the 99-00 3.8L V6 vavle cover replaced with the baffled one, the whole situation still may come back.

iam4uf
03-10-2004, 05:40 PM
Thank you everybody!!!
I reviewed this forum and fixed my 2000 windstar.
I got code 171 and 174 first then couple days later another code 401 comes out. Ever since that, the 3.8L V6 always shudder when idle.
I called Ford and, of course, the TSB doen't mean nohing. I got sent the van to a auto shop. I paid for 250$ to have my PCV valve replaced, upper and lower intake cleaned, intake gasket replaced, EGR valve cleaned.

the most important thing is that the shop told me that my valve cover has been "updated". That is, even after the 99-00 3.8L V6 vavle cover replaced with the baffled one, the whole situation still may come back.
It may come back but with the new valve cover it shouldnt. Knock on wood, I havent had a problem since doing the TSB. no oil anywhere and van runs fine. Ill keep my fingers crossed though.

lewisnc100
03-10-2004, 09:29 PM
That is, even after the 99-00 3.8L V6 vavle cover replaced with the baffled one, the whole situation still may come back.

I have no doubt it will come back even with the new valve cover considering that the 2001 and newer Windstars came from the factory with the updated valve cover but are still seeing this problem. Hopefully you just won't have to clean it as often as before.

rodeo02
03-11-2004, 06:28 AM
Do you guys think a periodic cleaning of the PCV line would help prevent this? 1) get a can of (sensor safe) carburetor / intake cleaner. 2) start the van, yank the PCV valve out of the valve cover & shoot the can of cleaner through the line. 3) drive the van to burn off the intake cleaner. Maybe the cleaner will "dissolve" any accumulated oil in the intake area & just force it into the combustion chamber where it will be burned off? Maybe this has been covered before :dunno: ? Just an idea.

G/luck
Joel

lewisnc100
03-11-2004, 08:11 AM
Isn't there a Seafoam product that is suppossed to do to the same thing? Sounds just like their directions if I remember right.

rodeo02
03-11-2004, 08:42 AM
Isn't there a Seafoam product that is suppossed to do to the same thing? Sounds just like their directions if I remember right.

It may very well be, but seafoam is much more difficult to find and much more $. It is good stuff FWIU. Carb cleaner can be had for about a buck a can. I'm just wondering if this is a feasable option to get the oil out of the intake.

Joel

DRW1000
03-11-2004, 11:02 AM
I always thought the seafoam thing was a joke.

Any idea where to get it in Canada?

mtherr
03-16-2004, 01:25 PM
This forum is a great thing! I discovered this thread just before (wrongly) buying hundreds $ of o2 sensors.

I went to the dealer (my car has 150,000km). He said this is not covered, repair price 600$. And then, when I offered to do the work, he offered me parts at "garage" price and he accepted to reprogram the PCM for free.

I did the TSB work last night, took me 4 hours (I'm not a mechanic at all, although I rebuilt an engine for my aircraft). I took many picture and I can create a web site to show them if there is interest.

Oups! I forgot to say... I'm a newbie here. Since the minivan starts to demand a lot of attention, I think I'll become active here.

Thanks again!

abctrophies
04-14-2004, 10:42 PM
Hello Everyone,

Boy, did I really enjoy what I have just read. Now, the big question is, will this LH Manifold Gasket replacement fix a 96 Windstar? If so, I definately don't mind doing the work myself. Hopefully I will get some good news from someone.

tarheel4eva
04-21-2004, 06:26 PM
i have a 97 windstar. would getting a new valve cover help me as well? i also got the 171 174 codes. the salesman told me it was to o2 sensors. but looking on this forum. I am going to follow the steps posted here. the only thing is that is there any pictures that i can refrence by to help me? Any suggestions??

pcitizen
11-16-2004, 05:43 PM
Great read everyone. My Windstar has been reporting P0171 and P0174 codes for about a week now - it runs great though. I read all three pages worth of posts found here with great interest. After doing so, I checked for the whole at the 5 o'clock position below the PVC valve. While I have an 2000 model Windstar with a 3.8 I did not find the hole described in the posts. Also, I checked the PVC and PVC line for oil build-up. Oil residue was present, but not what I'd consider heavy by any stretch.

Any suggestions on what I should check next. I am considering replacing the PVC valve as the vehicle has 67k on it.

Your comments and thoughts please.

DRW1000
11-16-2004, 05:55 PM
The hole within the valve cover is only part of a TSB that addresses codes 171/174. The hole (and elimination thereof) is a preventative step to try and prevent the clogged EGR ports in the future.

The TSB is described very recenty in this forum (Under "Isolator bolts". Still on the first pager of topics) and I would be more than happy to send you a copy if you need it.

pcitizen
11-16-2004, 06:02 PM
Thanks for the clarification.

Yes, I would appreciate any information you can send. Thank you.

DRW1000
11-16-2004, 06:03 PM
Pcitizen,

Send me a private message with your email address and I will send it.

12Ounce
11-16-2004, 08:32 PM
pcitizen
I would do the upper manifold and spacer (including the isolator bolts). It is a fairly simple low-cost, low-risk, task that may be all you need.

pcitizen
11-16-2004, 08:38 PM
I will check into that. I am attempting to get the Service Bulletin regarding this matter.

DRW1000
11-17-2004, 08:20 AM
The TSB is on its way.

I agree with 12ounce.....The Isolator bolt, Port seals and EGR port cleaning is probably all that is causing your troubles. IF you read the other posts on this subject you will get more insight into the TSB and what each step is supposed to do.

The reason you get the 171/174 codes is because air is getting into the cylinders from another source other than through the throttle body so the computer does not "know" about it. This is a vacuum leak and when the Isolator bolts stop functioning it allows air to enter from the Upper to Lower intake manifolds via the port seals.

pcitizen
11-17-2004, 05:39 PM
DRW1000... didn't receive the TSB. Please resend it.

Thanks.

packertundra
12-14-2004, 03:32 PM
I just sent you an email with my fax number. If you could send the procedure my way that would be great.



Im just going to bit the bullet and get the new valve cover. I think it may help in the long run. The only thing that would be left is the PCM upgrade. I dont really think its needed, anybody else have any opinions on it?

packertundra
12-14-2004, 03:44 PM
Does anyone have the procedure to replace the bolts and seals from Ford they could fax me?

pcitizen
12-14-2004, 05:43 PM
Does anyone have the procedure to replace the bolts and seals from Ford they could fax me?

The TSB I received via FAX does not actually explain how to change the bolts... only that it is required. Now... I am an experienced automobile mechanic and believe anyone can take care of this fix with a little time, the correct sized wrenches, phillips screwdriver, pliers, a couple clean rags, and an pick. I think I will take a few pictures and put them on the net soon. They won't detail the entire repair but should help some. I will also provide a link herein.

Honestly, this repair is far easier than I thought it might be. To replace the recommended parts comes with a $157.00 price tag, but I am 100% satisfied with the results

pcitizen
12-14-2004, 06:40 PM
Well... sorry about the false promise. Argh! I can't get the digital pictures off my camera to post them. If I overcome this problem, I will.

Sorry.

pcitizen
12-14-2004, 11:28 PM
OK. I have successfully remedied my digital camera's or my difficulty getting images from it, to my computer.

I have set up a cheesy web site that explains how to do the TSB repair discussed in this forum. Take it as it is. Cheesy-factor is pegged, but I think it will be helpful for some of you do-it-yourselfers.

Here's the URL.

http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html

dbogey
12-15-2004, 09:51 AM
OK. I have successfully remedied my digital camera's or my difficulty getting images from it, to my computer.

I have set up a cheesy web site that explains how to do the TSB repair discussed in this forum. Take it as it is. Cheesy-factor is pegged, but I think it will be helpful for some of you do-it-yourselfers.

Here's the URL.

http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html

Outstanding job pcitizen. I'm a total newbee to this forum. I too have the infamous P0171 & P0174 codes with the check engine light. 2000 Windstar w/ 57K miles. This is exactly what I'm looking for. Ammo that I can take to my local dealer. I had to replace the transmission three months after the OEM warranty expired and part of the deal was the purchase of an extended power-train warranty. By my estimations this P0171/0174 repair should be covered as part of the power-train warranty. Especially since it's manifold leakage problems to start with.

But just in case, your pictures and instructions are excellent! And thanks for posting the TSBs as well... Wish me luck with the 'stealer'.

DB

packertundra
12-15-2004, 10:10 AM
Thanks for the URL. EXCELLENT documentation.

I'm wondering what you or anyone else thinks of their windstar. I've sunk $1500 into since June and now this. I'm wondering if this is a never ending money pit or if its just a bump in the road. What is your opinion?

dbogey
12-15-2004, 11:46 AM
It wasn't my URL exactly... it was pcitizen's.

As for my thoughts on the windstar. It could have been a great vehicle if Ford would have spent a little more on the drive train. In my opinion transmission failure at 40K miles is unaccpetable and due to Ford trying to adapt a Taurus drive train to a much heavier Van chassis. Then there's the engine. I owned a 92 explorer before this van and it had similar intake/injection problems. Ford just hasn't figured out how to design an engine with light parts and still meet the lead emmision standards.

I'm actively looking at selling our Windstar and going back to the SUV route. This time I'm going to look at a Toyota 4-runner. After spending $32K on this '00 SEL only to have it be worth less than $10K 4-5 years later just doesn't seem like a value any way you spin it... I'm stearing clear of Ford's until they make some drastic changes to their medium size vehicles.

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