okay so I've been coming on this board for the last few weeks looking at 2g's because I want fast and light car. my current car is powerful but weight 3660 with me in it. so I had my mind set on a 2g until me and my cousin went to the dodge dealer to gock at new cars. well I saw the srt-4 and loved it. so now I'm trying to decide which would be better.
choice 1
$21,000 for a srt-4
223whp 250wtq
4dr=friends(my current car is 4dr and hitting 100mph with four in the car
is fun)
new car warranty
new car reliability
more displacement
am I missing anything?


choice two
$3000-$7000 Gst a (good year)
170whp ???wtq
two door=me and girl only
aftermarket that doesn't end
what else?


pros and cons anyone?



marcus

You'd save a lot of money, be able to go way faster cheaper, not have to haul people around, and.. those neons look goofy, although the new ones DO have quaife and better tires now. cheated though, 2.4 liters.

i'd go for the Gs-T...i think with correct mods, the Srt-4 will be lunch for the Gs-T...those DSM's are quick little fellors...

okay so I've been coming on this board for the last few weeks looking at 2g's because I want fast and light car. my current car is powerful but weight 3660 with me in it. so I had my mind set on a 2g until me and my cousin went to the dodge dealer to gock at new cars. well I saw the srt-4 and loved it. so now I'm trying to decide which would be better.
choice 1
$21,000 for a srt-4
223whp 250wtq
4dr=friends(my current car is 4dr and hitting 100mph with four in the car
is fun)
new car warranty
new car reliability
more displacement
am I missing anything?


choice two
$3000-$7000 Gst a (good year)
170whp ???wtq
two door=me and girl only
aftermarket that doesn't end
what else?


pros and cons anyone?



marcus

ummm the GST ( 95 - 99 ) is 210 hp
and the 90 - 94 is only 15 hp less

pros, >>> its a dsm, and they sexy as hell
cons, >>> you kant be a taxi, :nono: ( thusly giving you a light car )

The SRT4 is definitely a good deal, one of the best bang for the buck new cars right now and it can put down 280+whp 300+tq and still be under factory warranty, I'll go SRT

yea its ugly, but it has power so it dont matter
kinda like a fat chick with alot of money,
the downside can be overlooked

the gs-t has 210crank hp and 170wheel hp assuming 20% drivetrain loss
the srt-4 is 280crank hp and 223wheel hp with 20% loss


didn't cheat with 2.4Liters i don't think it's DOHC
got torque?




marcus

but think about it, if you buy the GST, for lets say 8 grand... you still have 13 grand for mods and anything else you want your car to be or have, ok wait, screw the GST idea and spend 13 grand on a GSX and still have 8 grand for mods, then you could be pretty close to kevin (95GSXRacer) in the 1/4 mile, or quicker, i'm not sure how much he has spent on his car but its damn fast, try running 11's in a brand new neon for $21,000!

I say stick with the DSM!!! :iceslolan

since when are SRT-4's 280whp stock? its true that you can do it under warranty but turboaddict, he means factory installed mopar parts are still under warranty, and you can probably get over 300whp without voiding too. Was kidding about the 2.4 liters cheating thing, but its hard to compare to 4G63 when theres 20% more volume to work with. So don't go and think that the SRT-4 motor is better, because it's not 20% more powerful and that means (generally speaking) the engine doesn't put out more power in any aspect other than displacement.

I believe the mopar stage 1 and 2 mods bring up to about 280, factory installed, factory warranty. SOmeone can hopefully verify that, I'm no expert.

Fits thing first, doing 100 with 4 poeple in the car isnt fun, its stupid. It a fine way to kill your girl and 2 of your friends, while you live through it to stand trial for manslaughter and live with it on your concience for the rest of your miserable life ;) My car will do over 160, but you wont find me doing that alone, much less with other poeple in the car. But enough preaching.

Naturally I am biased and I will say pick up a 1g AWD for 2-3 grand, toss 2 grand at it and run 12s. Or do the 2g AWD for 6-7 grand, put 2grand in and run 12s. For the money you pay for a new car, you could run 10s, but naturally knowledge is more important than money here. IF you dont want to deal with AWD and its massive advantages, thats fine too. I would still say buy the DSM and put the money saved into mods. If you really want a new car, 4 door so you can kill some friends, and a warranty, go for the SRT4. Its no slouch. And being 2.4 as mentioned above, it should have lots of potential, once someone stops being a pussy and finds the breaking point of that motor.

Its up to you to decide, but if you ask me, they are all great choices.

well...I've hit 100 one with four people on a straight back road with no cars....I've done it myself more times but only on that road when it's empty. I'm just saying it's fun to be able to fast with four people.

well I'll stay away from srt-4.

oops forgot

srt-4 comes with 223whp from the factory base model. scc mag dynoed one. dodge under rated them because they didn't use any fans for the intercooler when they dynoed it.



marcus

did anyone mention about the abundant reliabuility problems the str has?

srt4 no contest...even though i love the looks of the 2nd gen dsm's i drove the srt and the best description is "holly crap"....the smoothest torque curve ever

did anyone mention about the abundant reliabuility problems the str has?

No, because that is bullshit.

Anyhow, there are a lot of things for me to address. First off I must say that I would take the SRT-4 over a DSM any day of the week. Granted I love the DSMs but there are a lot of things you have to think about. When buying any used turbo-charged car you have worry if the previous owner knew how to maintain the turbo properly or not. If not there is an expensive upgrade. There are also many other things that might be wrong with the car. With the SRT-4 you get a new car with a factory warranty that covers the factory installed stage kits. Granted the 2004 SRT-4 is about $21,000 but you're not going to find a DSM in good condition for less than $5,000 to $6,000 and even more for AWD models. How about power? With a DSM you're looking at about 210 HP and around 200 ft/lbs of torque at the crank. With the SRT-4 you're getting 240 HP and around 270 ft/lbs of torque at the wheels. Stock for stock you will eat a DSM like it was nothing. I am not sure what the DSMs run at the wheels but it is probably about 180-190HP and even less for AWD. The SRT-4 also comes with a Quafie limited slip differential, the DSMs don't, and you would have to pay about $1,400 for one of those for a DSM. Let's talk reliability for a second. The SRT-4 has the DSM there as well. DSMs have a pesky crankwalk problem, mostly second gen, and it is not a cheap fix. We're talking about $2,000 or more for a rebuild. The SRT-4's engine is overbuilt. Sport Compact Car took one apart finding an engine that could handle 1,000 HP on the stock bottom end. The 4G63 is a good engine but could never take that kind of power. They were also very impressed with all of the rest mechanical bits. In 2003 the SRT-4 even won their Sport Compact of the Year award and any sport compact was eligible to win, even all the DSMs.

With $2,000 you can be in the low 12s to high 11s with the SRT-4. It is a far better choice than the DSMs, trust me. If any of you need anymore convincing I'll be glad to oblige. The only reason to buy the DSM would be if money was an issue.

it wouldnt be stupid to buy a DSM, i mean even if the money isnt an issue, ok say you have 25,000 - i'm sure you could find a nice 99 GSX for 13-15 grand that will pretty much not have many problems, if any at all... my friend just bought the 04' SRT-4, right now its in the shop cause the tranny is fucked! oh and for CW < its not as common as you make it out to be, if the car has got any more that 50-60k miles then it most likly wont get CW! but say you got the car for 15 grand and you put the other 10 grand into it, (even if you buy the SRT-4 and put the other 4 grand into it, by the time the SRT-4 gets into 3rd, the GSX will be through the trap already!! its all about FWD vs. AWD and AWD will inhale it!

the whole cheaper and the use the money to mod it has been beaten to death...so lets leave it alone

point is....if you really like to heavily tinker with the car get the dsm...if you would just like to have a new car in warranty get the srt

it wouldnt be stupid to buy a DSM, i mean even if the money isnt an issue, ok say you have 25,000 - i'm sure you could find a nice 99 GSX for 13-15 grand that will pretty much not have many problems, if any at all... my friend just bought the 04' SRT-4, right now its in the shop cause the tranny is fucked! oh and for CW < its not as common as you make it out to be, if the car has got any more that 50-60k miles then it most likly wont get CW! but say you got the car for 15 grand and you put the other 10 grand into it, (even if you buy the SRT-4 and put the other 4 grand into it, by the time the SRT-4 gets into 3rd, the GSX will be through the trap already!! its all about FWD vs. AWD and AWD will inhale it!

I never said that it was stupid. Hell, I like the DSMs; I was just posting my opinion, which is that the SRT-4 is a far better choice. I also hear about people having all sorts of drive-train problems with their DSMs and more so with the AWD models. Do I believe them, no! I don't believe them because I don't know how they treated that car, I don’t know if they have any idea how to maintain it, and there are also things called lemons. Then you talk about the money that you saved you can put into mods, which is such horseshit. It is as fucking stupid as the HP/per liter debate. You're not going to take out the extra loan money to mod your car. Also, if you think that AWD is the god of traction, think again. When you launch the weight will shift to the back taking traction from the front wheels. You still get better traction but not as much as most people think. Also just like the SRT-4 you have half-shafts not solid axles, which are horrible for drag racing. Then you have to account for the fact that you have more drive-train loss, more weight, and more stuff to break. With the traction, if you had the power, you might rip him out of the hole but the SRT-4 will just fly by you before the end of 1/4 mile. A stock SRT-4 will drop a stock GSX like a bad habit. Also, the DSM has a puny turbo compared to the SRT-4’s and more displacement so the turbo runs out of steam quickly. That bigger turbo and increased displacement means more power potential for less cash because boost does not equal horsepower, airflow does. The same amount of boost on a GSX will produce more power on an SRT-4. Also since the exhaust housing has been built into the exhaust manifold turbo lag is almost gone and.

Like I said the SRT-4 has far more potential than a DSM.

OK RST you saying that a awd eclipse will take a gst no prob? Lets put it this way me and my friends have the exact same mods i mean exact same brand pushing the same boost yea he takes me off the line but oh crap he is loosing more at hight speeds he has beat me once when i spun the whole time BUT i would buy the eclipse dump all your other money you would spend on buying the neon on the mitsu you would be one fast mother

BUT i would buy the eclipse dump all your other money you would spend on buying the neon on the mitsu you would be one fast mother

the whole cheaper and the use the money to mod it has been beaten to death...so lets leave it alone

thank you.

no where did anyone say 280 whp. if you can read, and i hope you can, it said 280 crank hp.

i'll take the srt4, though i'll admit that i do like the dsm. but only awd.

you have you guys seen that SRT-4 video with a stage 3 kit and iwth a slightly bored out turbo compressor vs a stock EVO 8? that SRT-4 riped that evo 8 like nothing. he time after time he just took the evo like he was standing still. even after a while he even gave hte evo a chance to race from a dig. same result. the evo gets him off the line, then the neon blows by him. and for the last run, he even gave hte evo a headstart from a dig and still same result. the DSM with a stock T25 doesnt' put out much powre at the wheels with full boost and all hte bolt ons. you'll lucky if you can break 210whp. and thats fully tuned. the 04 stock SRT 4 puts down 248whp. stock. with a LSD. in order to get that kind of power, you need to get a 16G upgrade for a few grand. plus the neon weights less i believe. sorry to say, i love DSM's but i'm gonna have to go with the SRT 4 on this one.

aw shiet.
you brought the evo into it...
look out for the shit getting flung your way... ;)

you have you guys seen that SRT-4 video with a stage 3 kit and iwth a slightly bored out turbo compressor vs a stock EVO 8?

No, but I would sure like to. Do you know where I might be able to download such a nice gem? :)

*Ducks before the shit flinging begins.*

ha... i was thinking the same thing...
but honestly, it wouldn't surprise me to find a neon that outruns the stock evo 8... sorry...

but hey, poly's a chrysler guy, so that has to make him feel good, right? ;)

No, but I would sure like to. Do you know where I might be able to download such a nice gem? :)

*Ducks before the shit flinging begins.*


there are separate videos....one filmed in the srt and another one with different cars fillmed in the evo...same outcome...i have them both....

its true it seems its a breze to mod those srt4 to fly....srtgurl in the srtforums is running 12.6 with only about 1500 in mods....and nothing very extreme...i belive her main two mods are a wastegate actuator to hold boost till higher rpm and a boost controler and the 350$ stage 1

polgyon you were the one that posted that video up. here is the link on AF

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=129528&highlight=video+SRT4

polgyon you were the one that posted that video up. here is the link on AF

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=129528&highlight=video+SRT4


yeah poly is starting to forget things in his old age :biggrin:

i just saw the video again, and damn!!! that must've been sooo embarassing for the evo. oh man. that SRT got balls!

polgyon you were the one that posted that video up. here is the link on AF

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=129528&highlight=video+SRT4

:uhoh:

Now don't I feel stupid? :grinno:

I didn't think that, that SRT-4 has a stage 3 kit. They still don't have them out. I guess he had a stage one with some bolt ons.

yeah, it's got to be hard to get wasted like that...
either that kid didn't (like you said) know how to drive...
or that neon just ate him alive... awesome video...

First things first people, watch your mouth about the AWD. ;) Go the track on any given street night and tell me which imports own the place. Not FWDs, thats for sure ;) The occasional fast RWD rx7 or supra, the rest of the field is dominated by AWD dsms. The slight power loss you get from the rear drivetrain is overcompensated for by the massive launch advantage. Find me a SRT4 pulling 1.5 second short times. I do it on all season street tires. When I was running mid 13s short times were 1.7s. The whole comment about losing traction on hte front wheels is retarded.

Who cares if people are getting SRT4s in the 12s for 1500 bucks, DSMers have been doing that for the last 10 years. I did it on my 2g.

The turbo on the SRT4 has a TDO4 exhaust side last I heard. Thats going to become a major limiter especially with higher displacement of the 2.4.

I highly doubt the stock bottem end will do 1000 HP. Sounds like more misinformed misguided ricer magazine BS to me.

If the SRT4 has more potential than the DSMs why are DSMs still smoking them. Oh yeah, theyre "new." When my DSM has a 2.4 in it in about 2 weeks we'll see what the potential difference is :D

You cant "bore out" a compressor wheel.

Comparing a "stage 3" to a stock EVO is worthy of a good asskicking. Dont be stupid.

210 whp on a stock t25 is absurd. I made 250.

I'm sure everyone will now say that my car is heavily modded, or whatever, but I still have spent less than one would on a SRT4. Including car, upgrades, and all breakages/repairs and other so called AWD disadvantages. Dont get me wrong, I think the SRT4 is an awesome car, especially after riding in SBRs car. But lets not get caught up in the hype here. Give the car time to prove itself. Until then, there is still more potential from a DSM, more aftermarket, turbo options, etc. Not to mention spare parts are partcially free for these things. A local guy just gave away 4 0r 5 good 6 bolt blocks to make more space. Transfer cases, trannys, etc are dirt cheap. Maintenance is cheap on a DSM unless youre one of those tools that goes to the dealer for every squeaky belt that comes up. In that case, like I have said before, go with the warranty. Do us all a favor and do not buy a powerful car that actually has traction. ;)

how da hell did you get a T25 to flow that much air to get up to 250whp? you did this on a AWD dyno? can i see some dyno sheets? can i see what psi your running? i mean T25's can only physically spool up to 19psi anything higher and wheel compressor wheel will shatter. at 16psi your already hitting the max efficiency of the turbo. so by boosting any higher then that your not really doin much. even SR20DET's running stock T25's have a very hard time gettin past 210whp. in fact, i have yet to see one go that high yet. and they are both 2.0 liter but the SR has a more efficient drive train compared to the GSX. ( not the GST though )

how da hell did you get a T25 to flow that much air to get up to 250whp? you did this on a AWD dyno? can i see some dyno sheets? can i see what psi your running? i mean T25's can only physically spool up to 19psi anything higher and wheel compressor wheel will shatter.

When was the last time you shattered a compressor wheel? LMAO. I ran well over 20 psi. No problems. 117 octane race fuel took care of the knock. I would never waste 100 bucks or more to dyno a POS t25. See below.

at 16psi your already hitting the max efficiency of the turbo. so by boosting any higher then that your not really doin much.

This is true. On pump gas. Anything over 16 psi on a 2 liter motor (never leave displacement out when quoting boost numbers ;) ) is making a lot of heat. You need race gas to allow safe operation over that level.

even SR20DET's running stock T25's have a very hard time gettin past 210whp. in fact, i have yet to see one go that high yet. and they are both 2.0 liter but the SR has a more efficient drive train compared to the GSX. ( not the GST though )

I dont know much about the nissan motors, so I wont discus much here. I ran up to 100 mph on the t25 in the quarter, in a car that weighs 3350 with me in it. That wont be possible wih much less than 250 whp. I didnt have to dyno the car. Other people that ran the same times with the same weight have already paid that bill. ;) I'm not the only person to have done this. some people claim to have gone even faster, though I have never seen it myself. Also consider that the DSms make ~170 whp stock. To go from 15 flat at 90 to 13.7 at 100 takes more than a 40 whp increase ;) In my personal experience (the math says the same thing too) it takes about 10 whp to gain 1mph and .1 seconds at 3350 pounds. That rule of thumb easily backs up the 250 whp claim.

But hey, its all bench racing after all. ;) Most people upgrade that shyte turbo long before they even attempt to max it out anyway. Its a lost cause ;) Dynoing on the T25 is a waste of cash, so thankfully other poeple have done it, not me.

Another way to look at a turbos potential is the 1 pound per minute equals 10 HP rule. A t25 will flow up to 25 lns/min if you push it. I used to datalog it. In comparison a 14b is good to 31 or so, 16g to 38. My turbo, 65 :icon16:

If you donthave personal experience with the turbo, it doenst make sense to spread rumors about how weak it is or how it "shatters" over 19 psi, etc. ;)

This is true. On pump gas. Anything over 16 psi on a 2 liter motor (never leave displacement out when quoting boost numbers ;) ) is making a lot of heat. You need race gas to allow safe operation over that level.




yes because those evo's run only on race gas...since they run 19 psi from the factory and have a 2.0 engine

First things first people, watch your mouth about the AWD. ;) Go the track on any given street night and tell me which imports own the place. Not FWDs, thats for sure ;) The occasional fast RWD rx7 or supra, the rest of the field is dominated by AWD dsms. The slight power loss you get from the rear drivetrain is overcompensated for by the massive launch advantage. Find me a SRT4 pulling 1.5 second short times. I do it on all season street tires. When I was running mid 13s short times were 1.7s. The whole comment about losing traction on hte front wheels is retarded.

While I will admit that FWD isn't good for drag racing I will also say that AWD isn't that great either. With the added weight, drive-train loss, and durability issues it makes it a far cry from being ideal for drag racing. And there isn't a "slight" power-train loss with AWD either. I just don't like people touting AWD as the best drive-train for drag racing when it is a far cry from it.

Who cares if people are getting SRT4s in the 12s for 1500 bucks, DSMers have been doing that for the last 10 years. I did it on my 2g.

And who cares that DSMs have been doing it for the last ten years? Dodge has been doing it since the early 80s.

The turbo on the SRT4 has a TDO4 exhaust side last I heard. Thats going to become a major limiter especially with higher displacement of the 2.4.

I would highly doubt that since the SRT-4 turbo is capable of well over what a TD04 could produce. It is a Mitsubishi turbo but the exhaust side of the turbo is cast into the exhaust manifold. So that would make me doubt even more that the turbo is a TDO4.

I highly doubt the stock bottem end will do 1000 HP. Sounds like more misinformed misguided ricer magazine BS to me.

Go ahead and doubt it, there are guys that are running 9s in the 1/4 mile with the SRT-4 on the stock bottom end.

If the SRT4 has more potential than the DSMs why are DSMs still smoking them. Oh yeah, theyre "new." When my DSM has a 2.4 in it in about 2 weeks we'll see what the potential difference is :D

Sorry but stock for stock the SRT-4 has you beat.

210 whp on a stock t25 is absurd. I made 250.

Bullshit! You had better have some dyno sheets to back that up. With the small amount of airflow and the fact that you are AWD I am calling bullshit. Your car only puts 210HP to the crank stock.

I'm sure everyone will now say that my car is heavily modded, or whatever, but I still have spent less than one would on a SRT4. Including car, upgrades, and all breakages/repairs and other so called AWD disadvantages. Dont get me wrong, I think the SRT4 is an awesome car, especially after riding in SBRs car. But lets not get caught up in the hype here. Give the car time to prove itself. Until then, there is still more potential from a DSM, more aftermarket, turbo options, etc. Not to mention spare parts are partcially free for these things. A local guy just gave away 4 0r 5 good 6 bolt blocks to make more space. Transfer cases, trannys, etc are dirt cheap. Maintenance is cheap on a DSM unless youre one of those tools that goes to the dealer for every squeaky belt that comes up. In that case, like I have said before, go with the warranty. Do us all a favor and do not buy a powerful car that actually has traction. ;)

1. Yeah, the SRT-4 will cost more because it is brand new! Your car is used. You can't compare price for mods here including the car. I would say mod for mod they would be about the same price.

2. Give the car time to prove itself? Why, when Chrysler has been reliably turbo-charging cars for ages and with a good amount of power. They know what they're doing. Also, aftermarket, you have a damn good aftermarket for the SRT-4 and even better since the staged upgrade kits keep you covered under your factory warranty, sorry, but you can't do that wit your DSM.