69 Gto

I have been looking into getting a 69 gto. I think that was when they looked the coolest. I don't really know about horsepower ratings and speed on them though. I read they were around 365 but who knows how accurate that is. I'm looking to be a streetable drag car out of it. Is it worth it? I meanI'm willing to spend $4-6 k on the car and up the $5k in restoration/aftermarket parts. I'm just wanted others feed back on it. I'm either gonna do that or get a mid 70's trans am and see if i can fit a 455 in it or Just take my 98 grand prix gt swap an l67 and do about $4K in engine mods and what not. I'm just really bored and I need a new project. I built up a ricer before but only because of budget. I want some real american balls this time. Any advice would be great.

There are many many things to look into when considering buying an old muscle car. If you want a '69 GTO for $4-6,000 the car will probably need some work. You probably won't find a GTO of any year in good condition for that price. I would look around on www.collectorcartraderonline.com and www.ebaymotors.com and just look around where you live. Sure, old GTO's are rare, but not impossible to find. If you live in an area where muscle cars aren't uncommon, I would consider driving around one day just looking in yards and lots. I know before I got my '66 I would keep my eyes peeled every time I got in my car just looking for a muscle car waiting to be bought.

As for the '69 GTO, do some research. I got some great GTO books that have been helpful to me. The GTO engine in that year was a 400 with an HO option. I believe the base 400 put out 365 HP and the HO put out somewhere around 385. There are some pretty simple and affordable mods you can do to these engines to get them well over 400 HP. If you are thinking of an all out drag car, you will of course need to get into more expensive modifications. But it won't be easy finding a good GTO for the price you are asking. I know I would take all the money I was willing to spend on a car and get a GTO in good shape. I believe in keeping them relatively stock. But that's just me. Let me know what you find.

Corrections: there were 4 engine options in this year. A 4-barrel 400 producing 350 HP, a 2-barrel 400 producing 265 HP, a Ram Air III package worth 366 HP and 445 foot-pounds of tourque. There is some controversy surrounding the Ram Air IV option. Pontiac rated it at just 370 HP, but it was tested to be well over 400 horses. Reportedly, the '69 GTO with the Ram Air IV was the fastest of all the GTOs. 0-60 in 6.6 seconds and a quarter mile of 13.9 at 101.5 MPH. But you are going to be paying a ton for original Ram Air III and IV packages. You are probably better off adding that to the engine later.

I hope that gives you an idea of what you're looking at. I would also consider a '68 GTO, the styling was almost the same. And don't forget about the Judge in '69!

I excluded the judge in my thoughts because of $. Judges are for someone with a better paying job than me. I'm fairly new to the old muscle car scene but have always liked them, they look so much meaner than cars now. I heard that the 400 was not a very reliable engine. I'd like just to find a motorless body and put a rebuilt 455 out of a junkyard. But I don't know how it bolts up with the 400 tranny (i assume that what they came with maybe 350?). I've been watching on ebay for a good deal on a gto but none are close enough, but if the right price comes along i'll drive 6 hours or so to get it. You have any pictures of ur 65? I'll check out that other site you mentioned though. I've been looking for a site like that but to no avail. I don't really plan on going "full out drag car" on whatever I buy, I just want to see if I can get it in the mid to low 11's. I still have alot to learn though so am I setting my goals to high? I just want to build a car up to drive around during summer and cruise it and be proud of it. And show these kids around here in civics what a real motor sounds like. There are alot of junkyards here maybe i'll see what they have. I know I don't want a clone, I want the real thing not a le mans or a tempest or whatever. Hey thanks for the advice and I'll keep you updated when I do buy something whatever it may be. Which will probabally be a gto because before i just liked it because of looks now that I know i could get over 400 pretty easliy I'll more than likely wait it out for that 69 to pop up.

As you may know, the engine available in a '66 GTO was a 389. It just so happens that some one stuck a '67 400 motor in mine, which I didn't find out till after I bought it. I don't know much about the 400 engine, but I have heard nothing but good things. I know it will be much easier to get 400+ HP out of than the 389, which is something I plan on doing. Pictures of my GTO in it's restoration are in the link in my signature. There are also pictures of my '66 LeMans.

If you don't plan on spending much, I am not so sure you picked the right car to go for. The parts aren't different than pretty much any other GM muscle car, but the car itself usually costs more than say a Chevelle or Camaro. I totally understand your reasons for getting a muscle car. Believe me, there is just a certain feeling you get driving one. It's different than anything else.

I was just looking at '69 GTOs on Collectorcartraderonline.com. It seems all of them cheaper than $10k need some work. If you are planning on replacing the engine, I would suggest a LeMans or Tempest. You can find them for a lot cheaper and the look is the same and of course a big block will fit. Just keep your options open and keep looking. Let me know what you find.

I've only drove one "true muscle car". I mean there haven't been real muscle cars (in my opinion) since the late 70's. But one of my friends dad's (whom is a car dealer) had a 68 (I think) chevelle SS. It was a 4 spd and I beliebe it had a 454 i it (i'm not sure if those came stock). It was so awesome. He offered it to me at a disgustinly low price because I've been at their house all the time since grade school. I didn't have the $ at the time and it got sold. But now I do have the money to get something badass. I also recently made a logo (i'm a graphic designer) for a performance parts company and we made the deal of I make him a logo and I get performance parts for wholesale (which will be more than worth in the end). So i'll be set on parts prices atleast for engine mods. I think I'm gonna have that dealer friend of mine take to some of the dealer auctions he goes to and see if I can't fiind myself a deal. We'll see.

A Chevelle actually wouldn't be a bad choice. They looked good just about every year they were in production and they had some great engine options. They are more common than GTOs and cheaper. Like I said, keep your options open.

Yeah I am. Maybe i'll have to wait on my dream and settle for what I can get. Once I get out of college though I'll see what i can do. I'm pretty much sure i won't be able to get a gto just yet now, although I would love one. http://ultimategto.com/1969/69h_00100_1.jpg That is EXACTLY what I want down to every last detail. God its so beautiful.

That is a gorgeous GTO. Not liking those wheels but everything else is awesome. Black on black looks best on muscle cars. Don't give up on the GTO right away, but don't be hell bent on getting one. I'm sure you'll find something that you'll like. Keep me updated.

check ur pm box super car man

I'm new to this forum,but thought I might jump in here.What part of the country are you in? The inexpensive buildable cars are still out there, just keep looking, you'll find it. The '69 goat is a great looking car, i've had 7 of them.

Beware of what they call "clones" , if you get looking for a "goat". People have taken the Pontiac Lemans or Tempest (the car that was the platform for the GTO), dress them up like one & even fudge up the VIN plate to try & make it original so as to fetch big $$$'s for them. Read up on VIN id tag deciphering before you go looking as this usually will tell you if it's been cloned. The same holds true for any of those special ,sought after models ,; RS/SS camaro, Firebird 455RAV, Chevelle SS etc. The cloners usually have a s/n on the data plate that falls out of the range of when these cars were built....The Lemans is a nice car & can be done to perform as well as a Goat (that's what I settled with) for your budget...

Who ever told you 400s were unreliable, probably never HAD one. The 400 is by far, the most reliable of the Pontiac performance engines. WAY past the 455.
400s are readily available and relatively inexpensive to build, at least to the 500 horse mark. Beyond that, the field tends to level out.

mtndw, I have a question... What is a "Firebird 455RAV"? Ram AIr V was a VERY limited version of the 400, with "tunnel port" heads (not unlike the 427 Ford of the era), found ONLY in '69 Trans Ams and a few '69 GTOs. VERY RARE, and VERY useless in a street car. They made no power under 3,500 RPM, and didn't really "shine" until about 6,500, which is higher than the safe operating range of the stock shortblock. There are rumors there were a few "Ram Air VIs" made (a 428 version of the tunnel port), but no one seems to have actually SEEN one. 455 was introduced in the 1970 model year, and was available only as a "D-port" design. In '71, the 455 HO was introduced, which did have the round exhaust ports like Ram Air IV, but had a HUGE combustion chamber to limit compression.

Just doing my part for "rumor control"...

Sorry I may have got a rumor going there , must have been thinking of a RA IV. As for the 400, they all used the same blocks , starting with the 326, which was the original, bumped it up to the 350, then the 400, & on to the 455 (all Pontiac engs of course, with many interchangable parts).Sorry I don't mean to get any rumors going, as I'm still educating my self on this stuff, so pls correct me if I'm wrong. As for the original post try typing in Pure Pontiac Web Ring into google & that should drive you to hundreds of links on these beauties...

mtndw,
For a very good chronological history of the Injun Engine ("traditional" Pontiac V8), get Jim Hand's book "How to Build Max-performance Pontiac V8s", marketed by SA Designs (Car Tech). "Non-believers" will be amazed at the depth and breadth of Pontiac's racing history and success. This book is the first comprehensive study of the Pontiac since the HO Racing book of the mid-'70s. We've learned a bit since then...

Jim

MrPbody, I am familiar with the book, but haven't got my hands on one yet. I should probably have a read ,for when I get at the 75' 400 smogger in my 68 Lemans Ragtop. Gonna resto the car first & maybe get tweeking at the eng in later yrs (still runs quite strong yet).Keeping my eyes peeled for those "D" port heads in the meantime & who knows , maybe santa might leave a new book in my stocking....

Mike

Merry Christmas! BTW, pay particular attention to Chapter 2 "Building Your Shortblock".
What D-ports? Gimme a casting number, maybe I can scare some up for you.

Jim