Are we car modellers a dying breed ??

Took a trip out of town today and visited 5 different model shops and was quite supprized by the lack of car models they seem to stock now days.
It had been awhile since i went on a trip to have a look at these shops and the feedback i got from the owners and speaking to others was that people are not making them as much as they used to.

IMO (after getting into a argument with a couple of owners :rolleyes:) that if they stocked there car kits up and had proper aftermarket stuff like wheels/bodies/decals, that they might sell more car kits.
One shop didn't even have any of the latest Tamiya kits !!
No ENZO's, 350Z's, Skyline's ....not a rally car in sight :rolleyes: ...in fact he didnt even know the Tamiya ENZO was out yet :banghead:
Most shops seem to cater for all the tank and army builders by suppling them with shit-loads of stuff along with 3-4 times as many kits.

The other interesting point that i was given was that people are just buying heaps more 1/18 scale die-cast cars already made up.

Last but not least...i even pointed out this site(AF) to one shop owner and we went online for me to show him what i was talking about.....all i can say is that i nearly tripped over his bottom lip walking out the day :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

NOW.....WTF Is going on here....are we a dying breed of builders :eek7: :eek7:

What do you guys find when you go to a model store.....us car builders are getting offered less and less :banghead: :banghead:

I agree with you about the model shops. They definitely do not cater to the scale car model enthusiast. The two largest stores here are an big time R/C car shop with lots of 1/18 die-cast, and 1/32 slot cars. A distant fourth is the 1/24 scale cars. They do offer some items, but restock very infrequently. The other shop is 90% military models. The good news is the have a lot of paints and supplies, but they've had the same car kits on the shelf for the past 3 months. Car modelers definitely get no love from hobby stores. And I can't remember the last time there was a model car show here. Though there was a military one about 5 months ago.

I don't think we are a dying breed, but it might help to show more people car modeling. Just the other day, I was hanging out with my brother and his friends while they were tuning his car. I am building a Tamiya R34 Skyline for him for Christmas, and brought it over to show the progress. Everyone was like "Wow", "How did you do that?", and "Do they make any of my car?". I told them about stuff and aftermarket items (turbos, wheels, body kits, etc), and they were definitely interested.

Of 4 LHSs that I frequently visit, 3 of them have pretty good stocks of Tamiya and Fujimi kits, and also quite a few Revell/AMT kits. The problem I find is that their prices are so outragous for the Japanese stuff, I rarely buy Tamiya kits from the LHS. The new Ferraris are especially bad. The Enzo I've seen in 2 stores... one listed $82 CAD, and the other was $75 CAD. MSRP 2800 yen = $34 CAD. From HS, I could have one of those in my hands for under $40. So I guess I'm contributing to the problem if I buy from overseas. On the other hand, if the prices were more reasonable, I'd buy from LHS, as would a lot of other people I'm sure, and you'd see a little more interest in the cars at the LHS. As it is, it's rare to see an aftermarket wheel set here, and I've never seen a resin car kit or accessory at any of the LHSs I've visited.

My LHS is the same Diecast, Millatary and R/C and 2 old Fujimi Car kits (Merc and a Suzuki Jimny) and a few airfix rally cars.
They don't even buy in car kits.
But am I to blame?. I 99% of my stuff Online from Japan because it's cheaper. I can't justify paying 24 pounds for a kit I can get from Japan delivered @ 14 Pounds max.

One of the model shops, which I used to go to all the time stocks more Fujimi/imported kits when I last checked, but had ridiculous price tags on them! I still remember the Ferarri Enzo & 360 running $40-45 USD a piece! Maybe they have a much larger stock because of the prices so no one purchases kits. Although I'm very reluctant on buying kits now, I still like to see good deals locally, rather than purchasing off the net. I even asked one of the employees about the prices on a few kits, and he told me, "I have no control over the pricing, it's what the distributor gives us."

As my LHS is, they also stock a lot of military/planes supplies and kits, much which I doubt leaves the shelves (I really wouldn't know). RC's there seem to be their main market. I'm not sure how their sales are, but think they're going down, much consumers seek the same for cheaper. I hope to pay them a visit sometime this month, and see if anything have shaped up.

Hey P-man, did you happen to stop at my hobby shop? Fortunately my LHS owner builds car models, but he really moves from cars to planes to armour and back, so it's not like he's really down with cars for his own sake. His model car section is pretty big, but it's full of three our four of the same Revell or AMT kit. There is a little corner with Tamiya cars, but I really think he gets those for me since I'm such a regular customer. What kills me is his really small aftermarket. He stocks nothing, not even engine wiring! But at the same time, like you said, the 1:18 and 1:24 diecast section has exploded in size!

A lot of people say they are impressed with the youth in the hobby today. Thing is, the youth in the hobby today is tiny (this forum is not a cross section of the whole modelling community) and being replaced by video games and other, less creative hobbies. While people are impressed with the craftsmanship and detail that goes into a model, no one I know is remotely patient enough to build a model.

Unfortunately, creativity seems to be on the decline. I've noticed fewer and fewer people who actually make things, whether it's drawing, writing, modelling, woodworking, anything. Except for performance, that's the exception. The unpleasant reality is that people don't have the ability or desire to think for themselves, or do for themselves. There is no internal motivation to create some sort of product, everything they need is prepackaged, predetermined, and any "customization" that can be observed today is usually very formulaic and cliche (with a few, notable exceptions). For instance, the automotive (import, mostly) show scene doesn't impress me any more. There are a few variations on the same theme (with a few, notable exceptions) because even though people think they are scratching a creative itch, they are instead stroking an uncreative ego.

But it certainly isn't limited to creative decline, there is also a trend toward instant gratification. This trend has so permeated our society that the phrase "instant gratification" itself is cliche. Indeed, the explosion in the popularity of diecasts on the shelf in Wal-Mart, toy stores, and even in our modelling refuge the hobby shop is indicative of this. Oh, but lest I forget, there are tuning options for those diecasts, you can (of course!) swap the wheels or the body kits but that only requires you to pull off the wheel or unscrew a couple screws. And this also makes a case for the creative decline, how much more rigid could you make the tolerances of self expression?

I must admit, when building models I have copied some cars in real life (my green HiLux lives in my apartment complex, a future Skyline will closely follow an R32 recently completed here) but for the most part, they are a product of my imagination (though I am not claiming that I am a creative genius). And more importantly, I made them with my own hands. There is a fellow on the forum named Eugene who impressed me quite a bit when I first joined. Several times he made a comment to the effect of "I would be much prouder of my car knowing I had done it all myself" or "I wouldn't buy that because even though mine may not be as good, at least it's mine." Eugene will one day be a great model builder. He is driven to do his best, do whatever he can to build a superior model. He realizes that he can, through ingenuity, experimentation, and practice, make whatever it is he wants. Anyone has the power to do that, but they don't. There is a Ben Folds lyric which I hold dear: "How we just made fun/Of those who had the guts to try and fail?" And I think that's what's going on these days. People these says want to be cool, to be right, and they can't do that if they go out on a limb. They want something great, but don't want to have waste time making things that aren't. People don't realize that only thing greatness can be built upon is failure (with a few, notable exceptions; Eugene comes to mind).

With the permeation of disposability in our society, less and less emphasis is being placed on craftsmanship. With less emphasis comes less appreciation, and the further we go down that road the less we are going to see people doing creative, literally constructive things. Yes, P-man, I do think we are seeing a decline in our type of hobby in general. Not just in cars, but in all model building. Even RC is pushing more and more ready to run models instead of kits. We see it in all facets of life, though, not just hobbies. I think times will change for the better, but it will be a while down the road. I know when my dad was a about my age, maybe younger, it was rather popular that boys build cars (though not nearly as sophisticated as our models now) and when they got real cars it was rather popular to do work on it. Today, neither seems to be the case, instead my peers usually object to my "toys" in either 1:24 or 1:1 ("Why don't you just go somewhere and have your springs put in? What, is this the third time you've wasted an afternoon doing that?")

And after that absurdly long post, what it boils down to there is less value placed on the sort of skills modellers must possess, and as long as our skillls are not mainstream and perhaps "trivial" we must face a decline in the audience we reach with our cars.

Edit: Sorry if my post was overkill. I'm in final exams "write-all-you-know" mode.

yeah my lhs is arlight, it has some tamiya models, and occasionally will have decent prices, the revells and such go like hotcakes there, but there is far more military equipment and no tamiya spray paints.

another nearby lhs, has ridiculous price tags on models with kits starting at $28+ i even saw a porsche kit there for $55, its only 1/24 and its a tamiya whats up with that? they do have tamiya sprays, but its a bit farther away than my closer lhs

o well, and yes we are unfortunately a dying breed, but i'm trying to get more people so doen't worry ;)

and willimo... I agree completely! :smile:

Well, I'm on a first name basis with the fine folks at my LHS (Parma Hobby over on Ridge Road, next to Ganley Mazda). Their primary business is model car guys, O scale model railroaders, and RC airplane fans. We car guys are their bread and butter, keeping the doors open, while the train and plane guys finance store improvements and special events.

They're trying to get better at stocking import kits (MRC never did a good job of getting Fujimi and Aoshima kits out here to Ohio, and there's just not enough of a variety of Hasegawa stuff to justify a ton of it) especially Tamiya. And they try to get their hands on out of production stuff, too. Revell and AMT stuff, plus Lindberg, Polar Lights, and Galaxie Limited is there in abundance. And they stock plenty of Detail Master, Hoppin Hydros, XS Tuning, and Model Car Garage detail parts.

A lot of the LHS around here are like that.

Southeast Hobby tends to deal in obscure kits (only place where I've seen the Gunze Sangyo Bugeye Sprite MkI kit in person), while HobbyCastle is wall-to-wall discounted classic Revell, Monogram, AMT, Lindberg, and import kits. How about a Protar 1:12scale Ferrari 126C2? They had one (went home with my Dad).

You've got The Slot Shop in Elyria, Ohio; The second oldest continually operated hobby shop in the US with the world's oldest operational 1:24th scale slot track. They're pretty much your standard line of kits, but have a policy of "If you need it, we will find it." Hobby's ETC in Lorain is a nice place that is very good about keeping the latest stuff on their shelves, and has a long-standing reputation for "cutting good customers a deal." Shifter's in Eastlake is a slot car track, and the top one in the region, but they're trying to start stocking model kits on a regular basis (mostly because one of their classes, which I race in, is a stock car class that uses model car bodies. I run exclusively AMT 1975 Matador bodies).

Finally, we've go two Hobbytown USA's in Northeast Ohio. They don't usually have older stuff, but man do they stock current kits. Plus they're very fairly priced and have plenty of supplies.

Model cars are in a bit of a lean time, as far as the manufacturers are concerned. Kit sales are down, die cast sales are up, and new kits aren't being tooled as frequently. We lost AMT (regardless of the fact that there are new kits with the AMT label on them) and Lindberg is gone as well. Polar Lights is healthy enough, and Revell-Monogram is playing conservatively by producing well thought out kits of popular subjects, but not getting overly ambitious and alienating their primary kit buyers.

The best thing we model car guys can do is keep buying kits and making trips to our local hobby shop to remind them that we're still interested. If not a kit, try buying paints, or glues, or magazines at your LHS. Every little bit helps.

I agree with many of you that said it's because the retail prices are too high that people are reluctant to buy, and hence staying away from this hobby. It's just too expensive to spark some people's interest. To some, even if they love cars, and want to make replicas, they will usually end up buying die cast. Die cast are cheaper in a sense (if you add up all the paint and glue money for our plastic models), and they look nice all pre-painted and pre-made which appeals to more people. Some people might even think that why buy a small plastic one when I can buy a bigger metal one for a lower price.

My LHSs got an okay selection of car models, but also an even larger selection of Gundams. Hobby shops want to make money (who doesn't, lol), so they must cater to people's interest.

Scale model cars don't appeal to much people, making the market smaller and smaller. We can't blame them, because if you think about it, there's nothing special about model cars to the regular folks, especially those won't don't care about cars. Instead, people like what's hip and cool. For example, lots of people made models of the "Titanic" when the movie first out. Same for the Fast and Furious cars, because of a movie that it became popular, and a demand for them grew. What I'm trying to say, car modelling just doesn't spark most people's interest. We may well be a dying breed if things don't start changing. Changes like lower price of models and model supplies, increase stocks in hobby shops. But before model makers and shop can do these, there must be more people buying and interested in this hobby. How that will happen, no one knows. Too bad Tamiya wasn't the company that made the Fast and Furious models, or else things might be alittle different. *dreaming*

I guess I'm the lucky one. My local hobby shop is less than 2 miles from my house and they stock all the newest kits from Tamiya, Fujimi and a lot of good kits from Aoshima. Heck, they just ordered me 2 sets of Aoshima 18" Work Meister S1's and 1 set of Aoshima 19" Lowenhart at their price. My area has a lot of automotive builders as well as the Gundam, military and RC.

I guess I'm the lucky one. My local hobby shop is less than 2 miles from my house and they stock all the newest kits from Tamiya, Fujimi and a lot of good kits from Aoshima. Heck, they just ordered me 2 sets of Aoshima 18" Work Meister S1's and 1 set of Aoshima 19" Lowenhart at their price. My area has a lot of automotive builders as well as the Gundam, military and RC.

wow i hate you! haha, no just kidding you are super lucky! :smile:

Sadly I often get the same impression. If it wasn't for the Internet I would have contact with very few people into the hobby and precisely nobody who has the same take on it as I.

Diecasts are the big culprit, they satisfy the desire for instant gratification demanded by modern life. I've even had people try to tell me diecasts are better than kits because they are more detailed! :rolleyes: Cars are far more affected by diecasts than aircraft or military vehicles. In Australia the diecast market is huge, with all kinds of limited runs of V8 Supercars and classic Fords and Holdens produced. The prices new are in the $200 range and some of the early issues have become rare and supposedly now worth several times the original price. I know people who buy three and four copies of each new diecast expecting to make a profit on them down the track. they don't really care about the cars just see it as a money making exercise.

Fortunately the Internet and model shows demonstrate that there are still a lot of people interested in the hobby, even if we are small in numbers compared to aviation and military modellers. I'm confident our hobby will not die out, it is undoubtedly challenged and out of popular favour at the moment, but since when has anything popular been any good? You just need to look at the TV or music charts to see that! All the good things are underground - just like us!

i often feel like making my own hobby store here in the uk, with the likes of sas over here it would be good to have the rest of the stuff like wheels etc availiable in only a day or so. not having to order up tens of sets of wheels every time.
I wonder if i could do a direct deal with the likes of tamiya japan and aoshima japan to get direct shipments?
but im sure to survive most shops end up catering to the tank and plane market to be their bread and butter

I can see your concern. I've been building car models since early 80's and then it was a much bigger thing. But I haven't been an active person in the local modeling scene here, I've just been building kits every now and then just for my own pleasure.

The thing here has been that the scene has been mostly into american cars and the car modeling "scene" has been very closely connected to american car clubs, so most of the models too have been american cars. I also built lots of american car models in the 80's. Nowdays I'm interested especially european cars, like Opels, but because hardly any of the model makers make kits of Opels, I started to collect die-cast cars too, 1/43 and 1/18. They have a much bigger selection of the european cars I'm interested, and there are also some resin kits in 1/43 of cars that never come out as plastic 1/24 kits.

There are also couple of internet groups for modeling, but they concentrate almost solely to RC models, mostly planes. Also the model magazines concentrate on RC models and military models. Personally I don't know today any other adult (I'm 36) who builds car models, so guess why I was glad to find this site. There are some car model shows here, usually connected to american/hot rod car shows, I've never taken part on those. Also one amercan car magazine here has a car modeling pages, where a very talented modeler shows his projects, including progress photos, those are very interesting, but of course he also concentrates only on american cars.

The LHS I use nowdays (Tieto-Nikkari in Helsinki) has some car models, as well as military and the other stuff, but doesn't carry Tamiya spray paints for example, but has the normal Tamiya paints. They could have more aftermarket stuff or some more special kits, they have at least Tamiya and Revell kits, but for example I've never seen those other japanese manufacturers here.

I have also plenty of diecast cars, the 1/43 diecasts are incredibly accurate and detailed, but the 1/18 cars never have been better than a properly built 1/24 model kit, I know, because I have same cars in different livery as 1/24 kits and 1/18 diecasts, and the kits are always more detailed, even built just out-of-the-box.

Phil...the die-cast V8 Supercars here are just the same. People are paying up to $500NZD for a classic like the Brock XU1 etc. It seems to be more of a investment for these people now.
I have to agree with what has been said about the cost of kits.
Its far cheaper for me to buy a kit from Japan and have it shipped straight to my door then to pop down to the LHS to buy it.
I also think that they will price them selfs of the market unless they start to drop there costs.
Another interesting thing to me is how much harder it is for someone new to modelling finds it.
There is a huge lack of clubs here in New Zealand (what ones there are dont really cater for cars) so unless they have the net etc it is very hard to pick pointers up.
Plus the kits themselfs seem harder to the average person.
Already i've heard that the new Tamiya JTCC GTR34 Skyline has put severial people off due to the the amount of masking etc needed to paint just the body.
With Tamiya also bringing out there new Pre-finished kits it takes alot of the builders skill away from the kit.

well.... my LHS is going outta buissness....but theres one good thing about it. 20% off sale. I was able to get the Fujimi Chevy Astro AWD Van, Fujimi BMW M5, and the Tamiya 300zx

hmm...i find die cast cars are boring... its just like buying something and plonking it there.. none of ur own work required.... r/c cars are fun, but most run on b82rez, and i prefer the real ones, with customizable gears...

i don't mind if others dont' like modeling cars, i do it coz its fun (tho at times it slays me)

Last kit i brought in aus was fw24 and it cost me 42.00aus about the same if i brought from hlj and i find most kits are within ten dollars of hlj's prices so i think alot of the bigger hobby shops just mark them up to much, you just have to haggle. I would rather buy local for a few dollars extra (even if i have to order it in ) and know i'm supporting local businesses and jobs, and if anythings wrong i can take it backto the shop. The only stuff i need to buy overseas is photoetch and other access that dont come in to aus. Both my Lhs seem to cater for all types of modellers and are allways willing to order cars if they dont have them in stock. As for the car modellers becoming scarce i think its a matter of gettin our kids involved and thats hard with all the competition we have, but if you plant the seed it will get them later on in life, thats my opinion anyway. As for diecast bloody expensive and wheres the fun theres nothin like laying down a good paintjob and gettin it right, or the downside when things go wrong, thats emotion none of that with diecast. :smokin:

I'm doing my part; my model club brought up the idea to have a Tuner class at our next show in April and it was overwhelmingly passed!:iceslolan I even put up the money to sponsor it!!:sunglasse Our meetings are held at a hobby shop so we can usually share information about stuff that normally wouldn't be seen. I think that the hobby may be in a slump but it will get better eventually. I agree about buying stuff from Japan being cheaper; Thanks HLJ!!:evillol: I talk about car models to anybody that will listen and about AF and my own website as well. People are fascinated to find that people something so small can be created with such care and craftsmanship!! They see our stuff here and then talk my ear off about which at least keeps a buzz going about it. I'll always do my part for my hobby and hopefully you will as well!! Build until you can't!!:sunglasse:sunglasse:sunglasse

here here! i see many hobby stores taht cbf restocking... or stores that have just plain fags as owners...

bobj, i notice u said aus, where in australia are you? (if in vic) where do u get ur models?

There's a lot behind the scenes that we all don't know about.

Read the article on this subject first: Why Model Companies Aren't Making The Models We Want (http://www.scaleautomag.com/sca/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=538)

The big companies are being strangled by the major retailers, for one. US model companies have relied on big chain stores for their survival. They treat hobby shops like their redheaded stepchildren. AMT and Revell would go out of business if Wal Mart stopped buying their models. In some respects I blame Wal Mart for all the world's ills, they are a ruthless company... :disappoin

When a hobby shop customer walks into a hobby shop, and sees a kit they can get at Wal Mart for under $10 priced at about $16, what does this encourage? Hobby shops are being screwed by the big retailers...they always have. The big retailers have always had "special deals" because the bought so much. Wal Mart is the worst...they have their own line of models by AMT that sell for a third of the hobby shop price. How the hell does a hobby shop owner compete with that? In one sense, I'm glad that there are big retailers buying models, so that we have Revell (I could care less about AMT however). The problem is that the big retailers treat their suppliers in such a shitty fashion, they demand and the supplier must comply...just to survive. The big retailers don't want their customers shopping at local independant stores. It's a very cruel world. So they do everything they can, including dumping products at less than cost, to put the locals out of business. So basically Revell and AMT are whoring themselves out to Wal Mart, to survive, because they haven't figured out how to sell models otherwise, and they've done such a crappy job of customer service to the local shops-they've left them out in the cold for so many years. Because they deal directly w/the big chains, and have left middlemen-wholesale suppliers-to deal with hobby shops. And many of those have gone under because they can't compete.

AMT's parent company would much rather sell you diecast than plastic. And why not? The majority of people who buy model cars are not avid builders. Most people don't want the pain, hassle, aggravation of building a model car what with all the materials and skill needed, especially now that there are so many nicely assembled and detailed diecasts. Think about it for a minute...if you had no skill whatsoever, and wanted a model of a car, and saw it in diecast, and had a choice to take a gamble w/the plastic model and have it look like crap, or the diecast? If I were growing up today I'd probably forego the plastic.

Those of us who build and take great pride in the skills and results we get are a very small part of modeling.

Living in Atlanta, we've had a number of hobby shops of late go under. Four in the past year. Two of those are going to be gone by the end of this year...one has been a landmark for 18 years. The only stores left that carry models? We've got arts and crafts chains Michael's and Hobby Lobby, okay for selection but not for supplies. For real hobby shops, there are a couple of independent hobby shops in the outer suburbs, and two Hobbytowns-one regular w/a good selection, and one that's the biggest Hobbytown in the country...but his predatory pricing on aftermarket (he doubled wholesale) caused him to lose many car modelers as customers...car model guys are not going to pay more than retail for their stuff! So even though it's the biggest Hobbytown, it's pretty freaking lame. So I basically buy my models at shows, or online. I buy paint and supplies at hobby shops. When all the hobby shops are gone, I may hang it up completely...the trend these days is not good.

What I can't fathom is why the model car companies have such shitty marketing. Tamiya is the only Japanese company with any real presence in the US. They and the other Japanese companies really could care less about the US market. AMT has no clue what tools are useable over in China. Many times they can't do a kit they've announced because of missing parts. And if they do replacements, usually the new parts are horrible...they make toys seem like better replicas. Revell can't get a new model out after it's announced for nearly two years! They announced some new models last February at a toy show. None of the new tools are out yet, some are at least 6 months away. Yet this year in late September, instead of biting the bullet and not announcing anything until the next show in February, they announced a whole raft of new kits for 2004...and I know they won't be out until well into 2005! I dare say some may not be out until 2006 or later. And they are all missing the boat on why tuners/rally cars/exotics are such sales successes, which is partially fueled by the excitement for cars that is evident by people playing the video games that so many older modelers despise, because they think it kills any time/desire to build models. Bullshit! If Revell/Tamiya/Fujimi had any friggin' sense, they'd have a licensing tie-in with the game companies, and be selling real model cars that are featured in the games. This would give them a whole new avenue to sell their products, the games could have coupons for the models, and you could go online when you unlock a certain accessory to print/send a coupon to get that accessory for your model. How about a model car that was designed to be upgraded AFTER it's built, w/o basically starting from scratch? They don't have to be crappy diecast models, either. If done right, they could be just as cool as the good stuff. The model companies, if they want to survive, which I wonder if they really do??, need to think OUTSIDE THE BOX. Right now, they all act like they are BOXED IN. I'm glad I'm not in the business! :iceslolan

Hi everyone. I live in Poland and that's a hard place to find anything interesting... I looked for some Fujimi Wheels in every shop in my city and other online shops and there are only 2-3 shops that propably have one or two kits of wheels. They haven't any optionally bumpers, wings etc. The only good thing is you must use your own imagination and do the parts yourself ;) .
Sorry for my bad English ;)

When I went down to Denver, Colpar didn't have any new Tamiya kits like the 350Z, Skyline and stuff. I was pretty mad, but they did have a ton of Fujimi and a few Rally cars.
Bob's World of Hobbies, last time I went down there, they have a crap load of models. They have a whole coner of the the store, and even a few rows. They have a ton, so maybe its just kind of where you live.

The hobby aint dying where I'm from Pittsburgh PA. 4 fantastic hobby stores, who are always well stocked with AMT, Revell, Johan, Fujimi, and Tamiya kits, and alot of OOP kits.

pss.... i totally agree with u P-man, my shop carries alot of kits but not enough wheels, they only have like 5 sets of ugly aoshimas everytime, and no good decals such as carbon fiber or others. :mad:

Here in Japan. there are many model car builders in every generation.
many lively and crazy modelers (like me :p ) are living.
of course, car modeling is not a major hobby but surely there're many regular fans.
I want to say is Japanese model makers are never die and I believe that
they have enthusiasm for development of new kit all the time.
so at least, I don't feel the crisis in Japan.
as a matter of course? but if Japanese modelers die out. it's a real crisis for us.
I feel so sorry to hear that there're many guys who can't get kits they want
in their neighborhood.
Please don't give up, guys!

My lhs in mainly RC stuff. People just don't have as much time or patience these days and that's the main reason it's dying IMO, I scarcely have time or patience and only build 2/3 a year because it's all i have time for. It's also an expensive hobby to get started with, to be able to build your first model you need glue and paints and so on before you can even decide if you really like the hobby or not, so many people don't bother to start.

ZoomZoom, I agree with you completely. Big retailers definitely try to push out the local shops (ie. HobbyLobby has another 1/3 off sale again this week). And the manufacturers don't give the local shops any love either. And the internet isn't helping them either. It's no wonder many go out of business. Though it problem sort of describes most of the retailing experience nowadays with monster chain stores and the internet driving most specialty and local shops out of business.

I would love to buy my kits locally, but the selection is poor, and the price is too high. It costs me less to get the same kit in Japan including shipping. But I do buy what I can to keep the hobby shops going, paints (except Mr. Color and Tamiya enamels which aren't sold in the US), tools, SMS decals and P/E parts, etc.

What got me started in car modeling? Gran Turismo 2! A game!?!? I loved the Calsonic Skyline in the game, and while looking for R/C stuff at HobbyTown, I saw the Tamiya kit. I bought it, and the rest is history. Which is exactly to your point, why don't the model car companies do more tie-ins with other companies that target similiar audiences. I'd love to see a batch of GT4 models by Tamiya. They wouldn't even have to make new kits, just reissue/rebox some of their older kits (787B, Supra, Skyline, RX-7, etc), put them in a spiffy new box and add some new GT4 decals, maybe new wheels, and bam! Everyone knows GT4 will sell millions of copies worldwide, it would give Tamiya more exposure to people who would never step into a hobby shop. Other companies could do it too, just using Tamiya as an example. Revell could go for it. GT4 is supposed to have a lot more muscle cars (past and present).

I guess I am pretty lucky. I am on first name basis with a local hobby shop owner who finds rare OOP kits that he can and puts them away for me and calls me when he gets new shipment of stuff in. He stocks most of the new Tamyia stuff including 3 different versions of the 360 Modena and a couple of Enzo's and he discounts his prices for me because I usually buy a lot.

The real problem I am having is finding Tamyia paints and variosu supplies. The wheels I have to order from Joeclaw! (thanks man!) and most of the other aftermarket stuff I have to order separately like SAS, Scaleracecars and others... but between Ebay and all the other online vendors it is still not very difficult to find what you need and get it shipped to you.

But like I said, I am lucky that I know people in the biz.

I am pretty happy with my LHS a wall of kits and a wall of aftermarket parts with plenty of paint, and this is a small hobby shop.

You know I think it is interesting that ya'll are thinking about a model/video game licensing agreement of some sort. That idea popped into my head the other day when I was telling someone about all the cars I had in GT3; it occured to me at that moment thatthe majority of them were made by Tamiya. And also Fujimi, save the JGTC cars. It further occured to me that Gran Turismo 1 and Castrol NSX led me to buy my first Tamiya model, a Castrol Mugen NSX (at great expense to a sophomore, I think, in highschool). Even though that kit sat on my shelf, I bought and built a few other Tamiyas in the mean time.

An interesting note, the game Automodellista seems to have some sort of Tamiya license. One of the prizes you can win for being a good driver is a Tamiya banner to put in your garage. And later you can win a track, called Tamiya, that's actually and RC track and turns whatever car you've got into an RC for the race! Isn't that nuts?

Unfortunately, even though we think the companies missed the boat by avoiding that sort of license agreement, I guess Tamiya takes themselves too seriously to do something like that - to just rebox old kits for a video game tie in. Fujimi might consider something like that, but that might lead to more dissappointing results than them not doing it at all (though it might not, either?).

I would credit GT1,2,3 for getting a ton of people into models. That game made the Skyline a household name and what model gets built more than any other here? But I would have a hard time saying that video games in general are not competing with other hobbies - there are games out there other than racing games!

Not sure what I can add that hasn't alrady been said, but I will mention my lhs and my thoughts.
This appears to be a regional(continental)/continent problem.
I have one LHS here and the selection is poor. Lots more Ships, planes and military as was previously mentioned in other posts.
Aftermarket items are close to nil and if there are any it mainly applies to low riders, of which they sell no low rider models.
I see a few Hasagawa kits, and one or two other japanese manufactures sprinkled through.
Supplies are relegated to only Testors.
Just recently I was able to acquire some Tamiya Paint and was just blown away by the ease of use. However, my LHS will not carry it.
I get disgusted with them, however I still go to buy waht ever I can.
I too know my LHS owner on a first name basis. In fact I worked for him a few Christmas' for free! Well, he'd let me take a model home at the end of the day. Worked out great for him and I.
I talked with him just yesterday and he told me he was hoping on a great Christmas, things are certainly tight there. I'd hate to see him close up as they have been in buisness over 30 years.
The likes of Wal-Mart, Hobby Lobby and Michael's get my main model money. You can't beat Hobby Lobby's 50% off sales. That definitely hurts the LHS.
I am happy to say we have a local car model club, they do not allow any military modeling. They promote the hobby the best they can. They have two shows a year and donate make and takes to kids.
No matter how you slice it, modeling will be here, just that we are in a dip now.
Chris

found this interesting link about this very subject.

http://www.bonediggers.com/2-1/unglu/unglu.html

My LHS actually has a decent amount of car kits...and they do get the latest Tamiya kits. I don't think they sell too many of them though. The store is mostly trains. I know what your saying though, PMan, that our stores carry every little individual aftermarket part for an army kit or train set, but zero aftermarket parts for auto models. If my LHS got in some rims, I'd buy them in large quantities. I don't buy rims that often, because its a pain in the ass for me to order off the internet...which is my only way to purchase them. I think that eventually die-cast, army kits, and R/C are going to kill of the last of us modellers. :2cents: :banghead:

`RG

I agree %100, Car modeling is not what It used to be, at least you guys have LHS's my closest is a bookstore downtown that at one time had a total of 4 Revell models!, now they have one, and half a rack of testors paints. thats it. which is ok, but other than that its a half hour drive to a Military base where there is a hobby shop that has a hole wall of over priced Revells and AMT's. and 5 old tamiya kits in the corner, then there is about 3-4 walls of military models, and there is NO after market decals/wheels/parts of any sort for the car modelers, but a large rack full of photoetched/resin/diecast guns and other military accessories for sale.the majority of the tamiya paint is only paint you would ever see on a military vehicle, then if you drive another 20min there is another hobby shop, which is a cool shop but over priced, and all the kits suck. they have a big wall full of car models but they are all ugly ass kits that nobody in there right mind would want to build, and then a gigantic stack of nascars... And i love nascar, just dont like building nascar kits.. and all the paint is extremely over priced...

so to some, i have it real good, and to some i have it reaaaaal bad, this is why I order the majority of my kits over the internet, unless i find something i really like at a store like walmart, or a store downtown here that stocked about 30 kits, but there were only 5 models to choose from because they were all the same.!

Now, I wouldn't say that military modeling is a big threat. If anything, car kits have been a threat to military modeling for a longer time. There've been kits of armor and soldiers and that sort of thing in many different media for much longer than there have been plastic car kits.

And, in fact, many of the kit companies do both cars and military. Tamiya, Revell, and Hasegawa come directly to mind. And, recently, some military companies have started trying to chase the model car money. Dragon and Trumpeter are the best examples of this.

If the model car market goes away, it hurts all the other modeling people too. Let's say Tamiya blew a whole two year's tooling budget on a 1:12scale kit of the Audi R8R, and it tanks in sales. I mean, seriously tanks. As in, Revell 1970 AAR 'Cuda tanks. Well, guess what, that means not only no new cars from Tamiya for two years, but that leaves the ship, plane, tank, and motorcycle people out in the cold too. And, let's take it a step further and say it drives them into a position like Fujimi post-Enthusiast series. That's five genres of modeling that are out new releases for a long time because of one failed mega-kit.

There's not as much animosity between the car guys and the rest as there used to be. The only group of modelers who still seems to hold car modelers in contempt are rivet-counting model railroaders (I should know, I was a member of Ohio's Emerald Necklace model railroad club). That's mostly because model cars are unique in the hobby.

Most other models are replicas; scale miniatures of something that did exist. A ship builder recreates the Cutty Sark with all of her riggings. A tank builder will build a diorama of a King Tiger rumbling through the ruins of a town in the Sarthe. A train builder will map out towns and countrysides that existed decades and decades ago. And a plane builder will recreate a Supermarine Spitfire, waiting to takeoff in defense of Britain.

By comparison, model cars are more individualized and more a field for creativity. Yes, there are replica builders amongst us who create exact replicas down to the last detail, but there's more scale hot rodders and customizers. People who want to build their fantasies. In a sense, model cars are the modern art of modeling, whereas military modeling is the classical style.

I'm thinking about purchasing a few models finally. I have enjoyed real cars, r/c cars and car video games for years. I built models awhile ago, but all were muscle cars. Not exactly fun for me to build...all were purchased from walmart and such too...and none were built to any amazing perfection.

This board has really made me consider building some models of cars I hope to own someday...some of the members here make amazingly realistic models...I hope to do the same someday...

Maybe I should answer the original question-are we a dying breed? I think the dwindling numbers have waned, and we're actually getting more interest in younger modelers than in the past, probably due to the interest in the cars that are seen in the video games. Our tuner category at our NNL was packed! Some old pharts like myself and Veyron :evillol: and plenty of younger builders...so many that we're going to have a regular space for tuners. As long as there is interest in real cars, there will be someone interested in creating model cars. Maybe not as many as in the past, but a solid number of fanatics. And it may be a smaller, more devoted, more expensive market that serves the fanatics that are left. I just wish the model companies weren't lying around like dead fish waiting for the market to turn...they haven't done anything exciting PR wise in years. They don't advertise, when they do it's only preaching to the choir. They should advertise in new places, get known in different places. They don't do a damned thing to make anyone want to build model cars. Simply producing a product isn't enough. They should look beyond just movie licenses. They don't. Every time they fail at something, they never go anywhere near what they failed at...even if they were close, but not quite. Seems like fear motivates them more than a visionary attitude.

Wow! Great response, and very thought provoking.

Dying breed? I hope not, I still have about 100 kits to finish.

I'm not sure how many people here have children, but I feel they are the key to keeping this hobby afloat. New blood buying, building, and loving cars.

I have 3 children aged 9,7, and 2. My 2 oldest (boys) have taken on an interest in building recently. Which is surprising after years of me yelling "DON'T TOUCH!" when they got curious.

I have fully encouraged them to try their hand at building, and have bought them simple snap together kits. They need the "instant gratification" so easy kits that we can finish in a couple hours time is perfect. I haven't let them venture out on their own and build alone yet, but they're getting there. Now, I only get asked to figure out where they strayed and help them solve problems, and I'm always elected to put on decals.

The time spent with them is much better quality time than playing PS2 or watching cartoons.

Model building teaches kids co-ordination, following directions, reading, organization, etc.

The only problem I see in the future is them wanting to build MY kits. And I'm positive one day my wife will force me to share..LOL But not today..

Anyways, my point is this. If you have kids, or a younger brother, or sister, or even the neighbors kid. Share your love of modeling, and knowlege with them. I'm glad I did.

This topic kind of concerns me because I'm just now getting into modelling cars, but I'm not old enough to order anything online and my parents refuse to bust out the credit card to help me out. I go to some of the LHSs around here but find nothing but maybe a couple Tamiya kits from about 6 months ago. Revell kit's are an abundance, but I refuse to buy any at the moment. I have only seen one Enzo, which also was a Revell. Kind of sucks how the rest of the stores are RC related rather than modelling. My dad is really considering opening his own hobby shop that will be exclusively plastic models and paints, which I think is a great idea because I could get a discount on my kits :)

Dying breed? I hope not, I still have about 100 kits to finish. - CADguy

I think my 100+ kits are going to kill me! At least I'll die happy.

Dying breed indeed! last time I went to spore, I went to the local hobby shops like central hobby plus, specialist centre, achtung hobby they have tons of these military & airplanes models. And the the car model kits are usually discounted around 30 t0 50 percent(and their stocks are less than 10 models!!!!), which is great for me. I bought some of the hard to find kits like the jaguar xjs series from hasegawa's or even ARII Cadillacs. But on the other side, the retailers said nobody builds model cars anymore, the trends now is more in the model planes & armors line(which is boring for me).

People these days don't really like to spend time anymore in doing precisions, artworks, etc. In conjuction with my work field which is in Graphic Design, clients just want instant results out of everything ,there's no challenge on everything these days and of course less money they are willing to spend.

Well, it's like fujimi I heard their managements are now bankers type of people, these guys just want instant money, the don't have the passion in the process or the passion in their products. Just take a look at the recent quality of the models now it's not as good as it use to be, you name it, the wheels are small (And this just a marketing trick for us to BUY the seperate wheels) and the curb side body looking weirder than ever.

Its very hard to find good company like TAMIYA now, even these guys if you observe carefully they get money from RC and the 1:32 slot cars to support the 1:24 model kits line, which is very popular in japan and even my country Indonesia.

The trends now is also in diecast cars, I hears the licence fee to manufacture are also less than model kits. Just take look Maisto's and AutoArts they rule the market now just in 8 yrs in business they even beat the original makers in diecast business like Burago or Corgi's even Hotwheels. The original model kits manufature....well they started since the 1950's!

In Indonesia the supply of model kits is still ok and complete with retailers marking ups the product sky high. The gouverment in here are very stupid especially with their tax system whic usually goe into their own pocket. I will give you some stupid facts, I ordered from HLJ like a year ago with ems shipping which landed in airport customs services, they charge the tax twice the original price, and they call it luxury tax...what THE???!!!!!...

So yeah, now for me I just keep my my stocks until I got the moods to build them. On the bright side is now collectible items and it will raise in value in the future because lot of company stop making them.

Passion, Arts, Money, Business, Customer Satisfactions they just don't get along anymore, thanks to the people who loves war and making everything into a global scale economic turmoils

Regards

Andrian aka Spymaker

Thats stupid that peopple in NZ pay up to $500 for a XUI Brock racer, I see the fully detailed VX commodores and XY falcons for only $200 here, and they are genuine items too.
I'm lucky, a shop just opened in Penrith which is pretty close to me (i've been down there 3 times in the past 3 days) and they stock a shitload of car kits, but only revell and amt though, quite a few rare MPC and Monogram kits aswell as the brand new released from the Us. The guy there mostly does RC cars but a few requests and he ordered in alot of plastic models.
In fact, he has 4 more 63 impala lowriders and a few Monte Carlos now, looks like I am going to need a few hundred dolars......

Well i just got into model cars by a post on performanceforums.com, where d0p3y (celsior) showed off some of his work. Don't know why I got into it, but I like 3d animation so I guess it came kinda naturally.
I have 3 hobby shops within about 10 minutes drive, so its easy to hop down there and check out the local bargains. Often however, that doesn't happen though. Most models are priced at AU$45+, which quite frankly is a rip off, especially when it is a kit like the Tamiya GT-Four. Of course one shop has some models cheap, while another one has other models cheap. So it makes it possible for me to find models priced at around AU$30 which is pretty good. Thats how I got my Rx7 and GT-Four. However one of the hobby shops is really going down in model cars. Everytime I go there, they have less and less Tamiya models (I think they have around 10 now). And the models they have are outrageously priced. I really won't buy a 10 year old model here if i can get 2 new models from japan for that price. It really is a matter of convenience. I'd rather wait a month to get goods for half the price from japan than buy them here. If they only decreased every model price by only 20% (which still prices cars such as a modena or enzo at $52), then I would definately consider buying models here. And don't even get me started on aftermarket rims. They cost AU$25 here at every model shop i've been to. I buy models for the same price! If rims were $12 i would definately buy them, but not that much..

Needless to say I don't think that we are a dying breed. There seriously has not been one time yet when I have walked into the model shops (at different times in the day) and not seen another person. Usually there is 3 or more people in the shops with me. Even at 10 in the morning at just before closing. I think it's all a matter of cost though. No way in hell would a person buy a 10 year old model car for AU$50 (for example the GT-Four at one of the local shops).

that is all

My local model shops do not stock that much car kits either, only the main stream stuff. Also, with UK tax being so high, I buy all Tamiya/Hasegawa/Fujimi stuff from HLJ anyway. I mean, why would I pay £35.00 GBP for the Tamiya Enzo for example when I can get it from the source at around £14-£15 GBP? Also the availablility of Fujimi/Hasegawa stuff is really really bad.

I can only dream of the perfect model car shop. Too many people in this area complain about the same thing...none of them are really all that great, the fun isn't in the equation when going to visit.

Shelves stocked w/the latest kits. Stuff that sits too long...blow it out cheap!

Plenty of aftermarket rims/tires/decals. Fresh stock of Tamiya/Gunze/Testors/Alclad metalizers. Any tools/supplies that are staples of builders...in stock. People who know what they are selling running the show.

Resin trans-kits. Built-up display to highlight the products and the local talent. Sitting area w/magazines, car videos. Video game/arcade...perhaps a selection of car-related video games and their platforms. Perhaps have an area with six monitors/sets for networked games. Pay a small fee for time, sell snacks. The idea to make $$ is to get people in the door, and offer them the items they want for a fair price. Give 'em some kind of discount...even a small one makes you look like a hero.

Slot cars and accessories. A track area to race. A sitting area to "modelpalooza" and have club meetings. A workshop area run like a co-op; buy time on the machinery like lathe and mill or spray booth. Where the shop becomes more than a place to buy, it's a place to hang out. Have how-to seminars. Host a few contests. We've got a big gaming-oriented hobby shop nearby w/a lot of gaming and sci-fi stuff, not many cars because that's not their forte. Half of this huge shop is basically a group area w/rows of tables and chaisr for gaming/meetings/etc. I'd love to see the same for cars. They're open late, even on Sundays. The only place I know that sells Jolt! cola and all the other assorted energy drinks...these guys are serious about their games.

Yeah, it would be cool. It could work if someone had the means to get it set up/started and the enthusiasm to run it, a good business plan and backup plans.

Hmmm.....innovation, what a concept. If only that concept could originate in a hobby shop and trickle up to the model makers.

:sleep: I must be dreaming.

The situation here in Germany isn't different from yours. The most modelers build military stuff. My local hobby shop carries Revell and Tamiya kits and some Tamiya spray paints. That's it. I buy all my kits and supplies online, that's the only way to get them.

Here on the Gold coast in Australia I have noticed the same. The K Marts and Big Ws have about 6 car kits usually AMT or older Revell and thats it. No military or bikes. The Toyworld shops have dropped way off in the last 12 months and now seem to have about a dozen car kits, nothing new and 3 times the amount of military. I asked if they can order kits in if I ordered say 6 kits at a time from one supplier as I could understand not wanting to just order 1 kit and each shop told me emphatically no - they wouldn't do it not even if I paid up front. (1) it wasn't worth there time to bother with such a paltry amount(I thought $300 bucks was quite a bit) and (2) they couldn't gaurantee that they could get any of the kits I wanted regardless of Supplier (Tamiya, Revell, Fujimi).
Now I know that this a load of utter cr.p as I managed a Toyworld for 5 years and did a lot of hobby ordering of both model kit and RC from these same suppliers and still talk regularly to the sales reps even though I am not in the trade anymore. The reps all say that the shop owners have no idea most of the time what they are doing which is why we only find the old cheap to buy at wholesale kits on the shelves. They don't want to do their homework and get the new releases in or the tuners that are predominant on the streets of the Gold Coast.
The only shop that has a decent range of car kits in Brisbane is Mr Toys at the top of the Queen Street Mall where Foggy01 works and even he gets frustrated with what he has in stock, is allowed to get and what is available through the suppliers. Revell Monogram/AMT importer is the worst with over 60 % of new releases not available here due to licencing.
butif you want to see just about every Tamiya car and bike or Fujimi kit that is available then that is the place to go. Prices are as per rest of Australia when compared to HLJ etc.

my model shop carries everything...well almost.

my model shop carries everything...well almost.

You're must be either very lucky or easily satisfied. :p