What is the greatest muscle car of all time, plain and simple. Base it on looks, speed, history, whatever.

Shelby GT500 (Shelby Mustang)

Hemi-Cuda...

1969 grand prix 400hp 427lbs tq rare muscle.

The Hemi Cuda is the greatest muscle car in my opinion. It was the quickest production car in the 1/4 (12.2) up until the McLaren F1 was technically considered a production car. They're also sort of a holy grail as far as collectors are concerned because they're almost never up for sale and when they are, be ready to shell out boucoup bucks if you actually plan on buying it. However this question really needs to depend on what you consider a muscle car. If you're just talking about that time period, then you have to consider the L88 vette, the Corvette Grand Sport, the Yenko Camaros, the Baldwin Motion Camaros, the ZL1 Camaros, and of course the AC Cobra.

For me it's a toss up between the 1970-1971 Hemi Cuda and the 1970 Charger Daytona/Superbird.

1974 Plymouth Roadrunner with a 440 6 barrel carb. Good old muscle.

i dont know about the best muscle car of all time, i dont really have one that i think is the best, but i like the 69 429 boss mustang, 68 california special mustang, 68-69 camaro ss 427, and the 70-71 hemi cuda.

1974 Plymouth Roadrunner with a 440 6 barrel carb. Good old muscle.

that would be my second pick, my dad had one as his first car, but i think it was more like a 71

well they say the gto was the first muscle car. and you have to love the gto....but i love the buick gs with the stage packages's. you know the one's with the 455 that produced more torque then the hemi... thats a muscle car and with style...go figure

oh and you can't forget about the amx by amc...

68 GT500 (preferably with a factory 427 medium riser in it, but I would settle for a 428SCJ in the KR version). Best combination of speed, looks, and it's Shelby. Shelby's 427 Cobra gets an honorable mention, and doesn't get the full nomination only because it just really is not a muscle car.

BTW, 9ball. The fastest accelerating car of the muscle era is very much up for debate. It definately is not "in the bag" for the HemiCuda by any means. Matter of fact, even though there are Mopar muscle cars I would nominate as potential candidates for that title the Hemi Cuda isn't in the top two...there were faster Mopars from that era IMO.

I will say that I think the Hemi-Cuda was Mother Mopars best street machine from the era, even if it wasn't the fastest. (It was damn fast though) Just like my nominee, the GT500, was not the fastest Ford ever offered.

To go off of acceleration times you have seen posted somewhere and saying this is it...period is putting too much faith in the man/organizations that got those times. I have seen lower numbers posted for the 427 Cobra, the 427 Vette (a 67 and a 69), and even more Ford, GM's, and Mopars too. Just my two cents.

Just pointing out that I don't know that anyone can say "this car turned THE fastest 1/4" for 60's era muscle.

i dont like muscle cars that much, but i would have to say i like the yenko camaro the best. especially the exposure in 2 fast 2 furious. once again, i said that i dont really look at muscle cars so dont rat on me about talking in this thread and watching 2 fast 2 furious.

A Hemi Cuda Couldn't Touch a 62-65 Polara with a 413/426 in it :O

And Nothing GM built Else comes close.

The 427 ford came close, but has far to many engine problems.

You can Build up a Chevy. But you will be doing it again within the next month.

Lets see I have a garage full of BMWs and loved SBC.

My real deal stand out performance car was the 1940 flat head V8.

It came with a 4.11 differential and could smoke the tires in all gears.

A few issues made driving one a test of mechanical knowledge.

1. It would vapor lock if the OAT got to 90 deg.
2. It ate generator brushes every 2k miles.
3. Tune ups every 6k miles were needed.
4. I would eat a radiator every two years.
5. It had mohair seat covers, scratches almost like fiberglass.
6. It needed an 8 ball drilled and used on the gear shift to smooth shifting.


Later,

My two picks:

AAR Cuda
Shelby Cobra 427

My two picks:

AAR Hemi Cuda
Shelby Cobra 427

The AAR Cuda only came with a 340 not the Hemi.

Hemi Cuda
Plymouth Superbird
The AC Ace with a 427 dropped in it by Carrol Shelby (I refuse to say Shelby Cobra)
Yenko Camaro

70's Hemi Challenger

A Hemi Cuda Couldn't Touch a 62-65 Polara with a 413/426 in it :O

And Nothing GM built Else comes close.

The 427 ford came close, but has far to many engine problems.

You can Build up a Chevy. But you will be doing it again within the next month.

Actually I was going to say something about those old '63 Dodge Dart 413's. Those things were both hellaciously fast and hellaciously ugly. Perfect sleeper. Thing is, they weren't really muscle cars per se... with the 413 they were kind of hard to get a hold of.

I can't really say which is the best of the muscle cars because I like all of them... GM had a shitload of them that were cool, the GTO, the Buick GS stage 1 (serious drool factor), the Olds 442 W-30, (you can get these relatively cheap compared to other muscle cars) and of course the Camaros and SS Chevelles and Novas. Ford... well, they had a few goodies but they mainly focused on the Mustang and Cougar. They had the Torino...:/ Mopar, well, lets just say that nowadays, I can't stand Dodge. However, the late 60's early 70's Dodges and Plymouths are some of the baddest looking cars that America has ever produced, especially the '71 Barracuda. That thing is poetry in motion. Anyways, I'd take any of them really!

The AC Ace with a 427 dropped in it by Carrol Shelby (I refuse to say Shelby Cobra)

Why? They call the Mustangs he customized the 'Shelby GT XXXs', so if he customized the 'AC Ace' then it was the 'Shelby Cobra' if he wanted it to be.

Why? They call the Mustangs he customized the 'Shelby GT XXXs', so if he customized the 'AC Ace' then it was the 'Shelby Cobra' if he wanted it to be.
So, following that Logic I can buy a Mk 1 Ford Escort, drop and SR20DET in and call it the Jimmy Super-rocket?????


And then a few decades later make a retro-throwback and claim the Escort Mk 1 as a creation of my own.

I'm not a big domestic fan, but if i had to say one i would say '84 Grand National. Those things are packing turbos in stock form.. just not many domestic cars have turbos stock, but i prefer naturally aspirated anywayz.

Did some dude have like 1000hp in one of those things?... Monster i tell you. :eek:

definatly the hemi cuda

I'm not a big domestic fan, but if i had to say one i would say '84 Grand National. Those things are packing turbos in stock form.. just not many domestic cars have turbos stock, but i prefer naturally aspirated anywayz.

Did some dude have like 1000hp in one of those things?... Monster i tell you. :eek:

Yeah, but that wasn't really a muscle car. The muscle car era had ended long before the GN was built.

So, following that Logic I can buy a Mk 1 Ford Escort, drop and SR20DET in and call it the Jimmy Super-rocket?????

No, "Jimmys waste of space" sounds better in that case.

Anyways,

http://www.hallmark-cars.com/site/history.htm


What you said above implied that you would take a car that was already produced with a complete drivetrain, then switch engines out. Thats not what Shelby did. He ordered incomplete cars from AC, minus engines, trannys and rearends, then modified them to his specifications and, (here's the point), SOLD THEM HIMSELF, not in affiliation with AC. So they are SHELBY Cobras, not AC Aces with different engines.

The fastest mopar(besides S/S HEMI cuda and dart) was the 63 Ramcharger with the 426 MAX wedge. Very ugly, extremely fast, but you would need to get some bigger tires to get it to hook up. Besides the giant hood scoop is was a really good sleeper.
It was much faster than the street HEMI, but of course couldn't hold a candle to the S/S HEMI's. But those aren't street legal.

Yeah, but that wasn't really a muscle car. The muscle car era had ended long before the GN was built.

Not to mention the 84 Grand Nationals were absolute dogs stock. Honest to God my 88 T-Bird Turbo Coupe stood a decent chance of taking one of those out bone stock. An 87 GN would leave my Turbo Coupe like it was tied to a pole after I had modded the daylights out of it.

The GN's didn't get quick until 86-87 and they got seriously quick when it happened. The only thing the 86 and 87 cars had in common with the older models was the black paint job and they were V-6 Turbos...the entire fuel/turbo setup was different.

To make my point you could get virtually the same turbo six from the 84 GN in a Monte Carlo, Nobody, and I do mean nobody, raves about those awesome turbo Monte Carlos. An 84 GN is a great way to get into a real GN if you are just going to completely rebuild the driveline anyway as they are much cheaper, but stock....nah.

well they say the gto was the first muscle car. and you have to love the gto....

Chevy Biscayne wit a 409 is the first muscle-car but I still love goats!

Chevy Biscayne wit a 409 is the first muscle-car but I still love goats!

What year was that? In 63' Dodge made the Ramcharger which had a 426 MAX wedge that had 425 HP. It was also really underrated as it is much faster than a 70' HEMI cuda. 12 flat in the 1/4, HEMI cuda was 13.1. That could knock the socks off the 360 HP 409 Biscayne.
Here is a link for proof:
http://www.autofacts.ca/classics/fast.htm

What year was that? In 63' Dodge made the Ramcharger which had a 426 MAX wedge that had 425 HP. It was also really underrated as it is much faster than a 70' HEMI cuda. 12 flat in the 1/4, HEMI cuda was 13.1. That could knock the socks off the 360 HP 409 Biscayne.
Here is a link for proof:
http://www.autofacts.ca/classics/fast.htm


How many did they sell? The GTO is considered the first because it started the trend.

How many did they sell? The GTO is considered the first because it started the trend.

I'm not sure of the production numbers. But, I have a book calles ''American Muscle cars'' and it says that most people consider the first muscle car to be the 56' Chrysler 300B because it was the first american car to have over 1 HP per cubic inch. It also had a hemi.

There's no doubt the GTO started a trend, but I think it started the ''pony car'' trend rather than a muscle car trend.

What is the greatest muscle car of all time, plain and simple. Base it on looks, speed, history, whatever.

Ive always been quited biased towards oldsmobiles, after all they did invent the modern OHV v8 and the 68 HO cutlass was one of the quickest (mid 12's on a wink wink nudge nudge 390hp motor that miraculously fit the 10lb/hp edict from gm in a 3900lb car)

the prettiest is clearly the 66 GTO

the sexiest is clearly a toss up between the 87 GNX or 96 DCM Impala.

Where do you get that mid-twelves? I'd like to see a link proving that.
On this list:
http://www.autofacts.ca/classics/fast.htm
it goes a 13.77

The fastest olds on that page is a 4-4-2 that goes 13.33

Here's another link backing up the 13.77
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/general/musclecars-50fast.shtml

But this link shows that same 4-4-2 going slower at 13.88. Whatever, the point is they are not even close to 12's, let alone mid 12's.
The only 2 muscle cars that do mid 12's are the 64 fairlane T-bolt and the 63 dodge 'Max Wedge' Ramcharger.

Sorry to burst your bubble but no olds made it to the 12's

How The Hell Did I Forget About The Thunderbolt

I'm not sure of the production numbers. But, I have a book calles ''American Muscle cars'' and it says that most people consider the first muscle car to be the 56' Chrysler 300B because it was the first american car to have over 1 HP per cubic inch. It also had a hemi.

There's no doubt the GTO started a trend, but I think it started the ''pony car'' trend rather than a muscle car trend.

'Most people' in that case would be guys like Polygon :D

Anyways, the Mustang was the 'pony car' trendstarter.

As for the 'Muscle car' itself, the mystique around them was that for the first time, the cars were targeted specifically at the youth market and commercials and options on the cars showed it. The Chrysler 300B may have had 1HP per cubic inch, but did the factory push it for the youth market and make it an 'exciting' car? Did they make it affordable, good looking and have all the good options? (disc brakes, air cond., power brakes/steering, etc.) The early Dodges like the Dart 413 certainly qualified on what they actually were, intermediates with big engines, but like morons, Chrysler never pushed them like they should have and they shoehorned the big motors into *hideous* cars with no serious big extras as options, and buried them on the options list or made them scarcely available unless you were a real drag racer. The GTO was the one that got the sales and response from the market that made all the other companies go 'oh shit, we'd better make something quick', because Pontiac pushed the GTO option really hard. Also, FINALLY, Chrysler hired someone who could make a nice looking mid-size.

Where do you get that mid-twelves? I'd like to see a link proving that.
On this list:
http://www.autofacts.ca/classics/fast.htm
it goes a 13.77

The fastest olds on that page is a 4-4-2 that goes 13.33

you will have to wait a day till I get to my library, but the test was done by *I think* 'hurst heritage' magazine (something from the 60's) and was a legit test done on a stock, as delivered 68 HO. I dunno if there is a link to such an old publication (I have a book that is a compilation of old test articles on old oldsmobiles from mainly the 60's - from about 8 or so different mags of the time)

Here's another link backing up the 13.77
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/general/musclecars-50fast.shtml

But this link shows that same 4-4-2 going slower at 13.88. Whatever, the point is they are not even close to 12's, let alone mid 12's.
The only 2 muscle cars that do mid 12's are the 64 fairlane T-bolt and the 63 dodge 'Max Wedge' Ramcharger.

Sorry to burst your bubble but no olds made it to the 12's

btw - HO cars are NOT in many cases 442's The HO package could be added to nearly any of the cutlass line as such, while the advertised HP had to be 'around' GMs edict, the published figures were lies. The '390hp 455' in the HO was actually closer to over 500hp, lies just like the '290 hp 302 chevy', the '310 hp 455SD' and the '425 hp AL427'. Simple examination of time slips on as delivered cars showed that some pretty tall tales were told.

(or, we are to believe that huge cams, massive valves, higher compression only led to 10hp over stock ;-)

Oh btw, another of my books show a LS6 SS454 chevelle touching 12's I believe, as tested by 'car craft' (*I think!*), Ill get both times for you.

What year was that? In 63' Dodge made the Ramcharger which had a 426 MAX wedge that had 425 HP. It was also really underrated as it is much faster than a 70' HEMI cuda. 12 flat in the 1/4, HEMI cuda was 13.1. That could knock the socks off the 360 HP 409 Biscayne.
Here is a link for proof:
http://www.autofacts.ca/classics/fast.htm


First Chevy Biscayne with a 409 in it was 62'. And the 409's in the Biscayne were rated a 409HP.

Anyways, the Mustang was the 'pony car' trendstarter.


No the GTO came out 3 months before the mustang.

But I see you point about the 300B. It's not my personal opinion, just telling you what I read in a book.

btw - HO cars are NOT in many cases 442's The HO package could be added to nearly any of the cutlass line as such, while the advertised HP had to be 'around' GMs edict, the published figures were lies. The '390hp 455' in the HO was actually closer to over 500hp, lies just like the '290 hp 302 chevy', the '310 hp 455SD' and the '425 hp AL427'. Simple examination of time slips on as delivered cars showed that some pretty tall tales were told.

(or, we are to believe that huge cams, massive valves, higher compression only led to 10hp over stock ;-)

Oh btw, another of my books show a LS6 SS454 chevelle touching 12's I believe, as tested by 'car craft' (*I think!*), Ill get both times for you.

I know I was talking about 2 different cars, one of them was a 442 and the other was an HO cutlass

The SS 454 in the 12's probably had slicks, as any muscle car with slick would just about take a full second off the ET. Thats why the S/S cuda seems so fast, because it came from the factory with slicks and it got 10.5(or 10.3 depending on source) in the 1/4.

while the advertised HP had to be 'around' GMs edict, the published figures were lies. The '390hp 455' in the HO was actually closer to over 500hp, lies just like the '290 hp 302 chevy', the '310 hp 455SD' and the '425 hp AL427'. Simple examination of time slips on as delivered cars showed that some pretty tall tales were told.


Well yeah, the max wedge HP rating was 410 for the street version and 425 for the racing. Street version does 12.44 and racing in 12 flat. I'm not sure if you've ever seen one, but the ramcharger sat on 7'' wide tires! Try 12 flat with 425 HP on 7'' tires, I don't think so. It probably had short times of 3 seconds LOL J/K. Point is even the street version had well over 500 HP. Street had 11:1 while the Race version had 13.5:1 compression among other things that would add up to a little more than 15 HP increase.

No the GTO came out 3 months before the mustang.

But I see you point about the 300B. It's not my personal opinion, just telling you what I read in a book.

Yes, the GTO did come out before the Mustang. The problem isn't that the GTO didn't come out first, the problem is that it isn't a pony car...it's a muscle car. And, there is a big difference between those two genres.

Mid size car with a big motor = a muscle car. The Mustang was a very stylish small car for it's time....a true grand touring car. I have never hear anyone debate that the GTO was a pony car before...ever. Heck, the Mustang being first is why the whole market came to be called pony cars.

Some do argue that the 300 was the first muscle car. And, the argument has some merit. But, I tend to side with the folks who think the GTO was the first muscle car even though the 409, SD Pontiac's, some wild early 60's Dodges, and the 300's all predated them.

All of those cars were either full size cars (Yes, we generally refer to them as muscle cars, but intitially they did not back then) or they were just a big engine shoved in your dad's car. The GTO brought aggressive style, and decent pricing if you wanted it, to the table....in a mid size package with a motor from a full size car. And that is what started the muscle car trend.

So the camaro isn't a pony car? With it's 396?
So the mustang turned into a muscle car in 67 with the 390?

So the camaro isn't a pony car? With it's 396?
So the mustang turned into a muscle car in 67 with the 390?

this debate has gone on for 20 years....'pony cars' were typically 2+2 coupes, and not with large engines...the v8 into the stang was an afterthought.

Muscle cars were typically family sedans with non-family motors in them.

then you have hybrids like the GM X body which used camaro underpinnings in a small sedan.

but regardless what the kids called the mid 80-s up to present transmaro and mustang, they stiff are 'pony cars', there happen to be at present no muscle cars (unless mercury did build the marauder)

So the camaro isn't a pony car? With it's 396?
So the mustang turned into a muscle car in 67 with the 390?

Please, feel free at anytime to show me where I mentioned that a pony car could not have a large engine in it. They did not originally come that way, but the additon of a larger engine hardly makes them a muscle car or prevents them from being pony cars. Also, please feel free to show me where I said that a big engine alone makes a car a muscle car. And, somehow you must be drawing a conclusion that the Mustang and the GTO are of similar size, concept, and style to call the GTO a pony car....Huh?

I mentioned the large engine size for muscle cars because that is a prerequisite of being a muscle car. I would think most people recognize that to truly fit the defintion there are are several other requirements as well. I must say that I find it interesting that somehow you have decided as a force of one that the car most people say started the breed, the GTO, now isn't a muscle car at all???....lol.

Would you like to inform us that the 65 Mustang fastback is no longer a pony car as well and go par for the course? Oh, wait, I forgot, you did reveal to everyone else that the Mustang wasn't the first pony car either according to you. Should we all stay tuned for your next stunning revelation that somehow the 427 Vette and 427 Cobra aren't sports cars because their engines are too big? It wouldn't surprise me. I did not mention engine sizes for a pony car, because engine size has nothing to do with wether or not a car is or is not a pony car.

Perhaps in the future you could actually read the posts you intend to respond to? You might also want to brush up on things automotive in general. Because, I still cannot get over you referring to the GTO as a pony car. Perhaps then we will have to start calling the friggin' huge 67 Catalina 2+2 a pony car as well??...after all, it is a 2+2.

Perhaps in the future you could actually read the posts you intend to respond to? You might also want to brush up on things automotive in general. Because, I still cannot get over you referring to the GTO as a pony car. Perhaps then we will have to start calling the friggin' huge 67 Catalina 2+2 a pony car as well??...after all, it is a 2+2.


LOL, you are so frustrated you are arguing something I didn't even say.
QUADDRIVER said the 2+2 thing moron.

You have contradicted yourself so many times.

LOL, you are so frustrated you are arguing something I didn't even say.
QUADDRIVER said the 2+2 thing moron.

You have contradicted yourself so many times.

No, what I am arguing is that if the GTO is a pony car (which you said)why not the Catalina then? Hell, apparently there are no size limits on pony cars if the Goat is one. I pointed out the 2+2 thing on the Catalina because that IS a requirement of being a pony car....the GTO is not now nor has it ever been a 2+2 design. And, as you apparently just make up automotive history as you go along I thought it was fitting for you.

Are you really that stupid or do you just want to be Jessica Simpson? I have yet to meet someone else in here who knew as little about car as you do, it is truly amazing. We need "stupidity" filters in here....what a dumbass.

PWMAN, everyone in here is now dumber for having heard what you have to say. Anyone who calls a 300hp eight a "screamer" doesn't need to try and "enlighten" the rest of us I assure you.

'Most people' in that case would be guys like Polygon :D

I'll give you a laugh for that one. :grinno:

Anyhow; I don't consider the 300 series to be muscle cars. While they had the power they had too many frills and did not have the styling. They were sporty luxery cars. The GTO was the first marketed muscle car. The Mustang and Camaro were pony cars. And the Corvette was a sports car.

Plain and simple.

PWMAN, everyone in here is now dumber for having heard what you have to say. Anyone who calls a 300hp eight a "screamer" doesn't need to try and "enlighten" the rest of us I assure you.

OK a ''screamer'' is an engine that revs high, not necessarily makes a lot of HP. And BTW 325 HP is pretty good from a 273. Have you ever built one? I'm going to venture a guess and say no.

Anyway, what are you talking about size? OK so were mustangs still pony cars in 69' then? A 69 mustang is definitely bigger than a 64 GTO.
A 67 camaro wasn't much smaller (if any) than a 64 GTO.
MY point is some pony cars ARE muscle cars too, some cannot be seperated into those catagories. They simply fall into both, that is MY personal opinion so I don't care if you disagree.

PWMAN, everyone in here is now dumber for having heard what you have to say. Anyone who calls a 300hp eight a "screamer" doesn't need to try and "enlighten" the rest of us I assure you.

Oh I forgot to mention, I have the heads off right now and they are going to the machine shop to get ported, larger valves installed, and the combustion chamber to 52CC to raise compression. After the heads get back the engine will have closer to 375 HP-not bad for 280 CID with a mild cam.

my personal fav muscle cars were the charger/superbirds(never could get enough of the 3 foot spoiler), the hemi cuda is prolly my unbiased opinion though. only thing i dont like about cuda's are that there is one really beat up one right outside my house that a neighbour owns and i've been looking at it for 5 years and hes just letting it rot away

oh btw its not a hemi either lol thats for sure

you will have to wait a day till I get to my library, but the test was done by *I think* 'hurst heritage' magazine (something from the 60's) and was a legit test done on a stock, as delivered 68 HO. I dunno if there is a link to such an old publication (I have a book that is a compilation of old test articles on old oldsmobiles from mainly the 60's - from about 8 or so different mags of the time)

ok I looked up my source, the 68 HO ran 12.97 at 108.17 as clocked by 'Hurst Heritage' mag....

its engine was rated 390@5000 and 500T@3800, however the W30 motor was rated 360@5400 and it was a 6000+ rpm motor, so the claim was not a lie, I am sure it DID make 390hp at 5000...only it was not done.

1970 LS6 Chevelle was tested by Hot Rod mag and ran 13.44 also at 108.17 on a '450hp' advertised motor

OK a ''screamer'' is an engine that revs high, not necessarily makes a lot of HP. And BTW 325 HP is pretty good from a 273. Have you ever built one? I'm going to venture a guess and say no.

Anyway, what are you talking about size? OK so were mustangs still pony cars in 69' then? A 69 mustang is definitely bigger than a 64 GTO.
A 67 camaro wasn't much smaller (if any) than a 64 GTO.
MY point is some pony cars ARE muscle cars too, some cannot be seperated into those catagories. They simply fall into both, that is MY personal opinion so I don't care if you disagree.

??? Uh dude, my uncle owns a '64 GTO and it happens to be quite a bit larger than my '68 Mustang, which can't be much smaller than a '69 if at all. Pony cars, ALL OF THEM were in the 'compact car' category, (if you can believe that those were considered compact), and, here's the catch PW, a pony car was a sports car that happened to have a back seat, while muscle cars were 2 door sedans.

Personally, i Think a Polara or Belvedere with a neat paint job looks damn slick. But thats just me.

The Thread Said Greatest Muscle Car of all time,
If it said Best Selling Muscle car, i woulda said GTO :)

Jay Leno likes his Chevys, But He'll Admit his fastest car is a Mopar =)

Every pone of the original (64-73) Mustangs built was a hell of a lot smaller than a 64 Goat. Take a look at the difference in wheelbase between the Mustang and the Poncho....it is substantial to say the least. The Mustang's wheelbase grew a whopping inch over those years and was always a whole lot shorter than the Goat ever was.

The Mustang did get a little longer overall through those years, and nopticeably wider. But generally, the car got lower every time they redesigned it as well. And, the 69 Mustang was by no means a "large" car. For that matter neither were the 71-73's, the long hoods just make them look that way.

And nope, I have never built a Mopar of any sort, but I have built engines that small and even smaller. You will have to forgive my misinterpretation of your definition of "screamer". 375hp will be a little more like it for the displacement you are running IMO.

Every pone of the original (64-73) Mustangs built was a hell of a lot smaller than a 64 Goat. Take a look at the difference in wheelbase between the Mustang and the Poncho....it is substantial to say the least. The Mustang's wheelbase grew a whopping inch over those years and was always a whole lot shorter than the Goat ever was.

The Mustang did get a little longer overall through those years, and nopticeably wider. But generally, the car got lower every time they redesigned it as well. And, the 69 Mustang was by no means a "large" car. For that matter neither were the 71-73's, the long hoods just make them look that way.

And nope, I have never built a Mopar of any sort, but I have built engines that small and even smaller. You will have to forgive my misinterpretation of your definition of "screamer". 375hp will be a little more like it for the displacement you are running IMO.

Wheelbase doesn't mean much when you are talking about the size of a car.
I find it REALLY hard to believe that a 73 mustang had a smaller wheelbases than a 64 GTO. Have a link for specs on them?


I didn't think 325 HP was too bad with STOCK ports and valves. But yeah 375 is better! LOL

Wheelbase doesn't mean much when you are talking about the size of a car.
I find it REALLY hard to believe that a 73 mustang had a smaller wheelbases than a 64 GTO. Have a link for specs on them?


I didn't think 325 HP was too bad with STOCK ports and valves. But yeah 375 is better! LOL

huh? in 71 that generation of stang (71-73) had the wheelbase lengthened from 108 to 109 inches. the 64-67 GTO (lemans) was 115 inches.

6 inches is quite noticable.

huh? in 71 that generation of stang (71-73) had the wheelbase lengthened from 108 to 109 inches. the 64-67 GTO (lemans) was 115 inches.

6 inches is quite noticable.


All I'm asking for is a link of a website that has these specs.

All I'm asking for is a link of a website that has these specs.

I recommend google if you dont wanna believe what people tell you. Its not like someone is gonna lie about a wheelbase.

using 'wheelbase 73 mustang' as keywords I find:

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/3454/specs.html

using 'wheelbase 1964 GTO' as keywords I find:

http://www.theautochannel.com/vehicles/muscle/gto/64GTO.frame

These numbers nicely mimic the books I quoted from before.

Its not like someone is gonna lie about a wheelbase.


It's not really a thing about lying, it's just people make up stuff and post it. And they have no proof, so I just assume it's BS. Like everything SYR74 has said, he has given no proof.

My bad, GTO is a muscle car.

Shelby Cobra

I think it would be fair to include all old amcars as posibile mucel cars. The fastest would then be the Hemi Dart, it ran a quarter mile in 10sec. But if the cars should have stock tires, the 1973 Trans AM SD455 would be the fastest. No other mucle car could match the 13.2sec quarter mile on stock tires. It was the fastest production car in 17years, until the Corvette ZL1 came. Bye the way, a stock 426 Hemi "only" have 466hp gross, not 500+. A SD455 engine have 371net hp. If you seriuly think of it, how could the old engines produce that amount off hp? Yes compresion was high, cams was somewhat radical, but not roller, heads was not ported at all. My 455 engine with a mecanical roller cam with a duration of 310 and total lift with 1,5 rocket arms of 0,575 and dome pistons, a lot of port jobb. Produce only about 520hp. 450hp is much, and taking in consideration that they had a torque that was higher than 500, they where incredibile fast, all of them.

I dont know witch of them produced most power, but the big hemi is the ultimate matcho engine.

How could someone be stupid enough to say that a GTO is not a mucle car? It was the first mucle car. That something that every mucle car lover should know.

Sorry for my bad english, write in Norwegian and all will be cool. ;)

Please read this (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=162405) and do not revive old treads