Honda/Acura HP vs Torque

I was just wondering about something. For some reason, Honda/Acura cars almost always have a much higher horsepower than torque. For example, Accord(240,212), S2000(240,161), TL(270,238), etc..Now this is not a knock on these particular brands, rather a curiousity. Does anyone know the reason(s) why?!

i dunno, but id much rather have more torque than hp.

There are three types of forces that a metal must withstand, compression, tension and torque (i.e. push, pull, twist). Torque is a twisting force and torque causes stress on metals. It is less expensive to make an engine that spins fast (push, pull ) but there is a lot more involved when designing metals that can resist torque ( twist ).

i dunno, but id much rather have more torque than hp.

its just how they are designed, many 4 cyl cars almost always have higher HP than TQ numbers, most cars in fact. look up stats on any car, as long as they arent supercars, like ferraris, lambos, etc than you will see the same effect.

It all has to do with the displacement of the motor. Example a 2000 Civic Si 1.6 DOHC Vtec will have less 111tq, compared to a 2000 Integra GSR 1.8 DOHC Vtec with 128tq.
A 92 Dodge Daytona has a 2.5 motor with 100 hp and 135tq. That is why V8 Motors have so much tq because they have like 5.7 litres.

Also Honda motors get losts of Horsepower per liter, meaning that out of a small engine lots of horsepower is extracted, honda sport oriented engines are famous for that. By raising the redline power is increased in large amounts and torque is not, take for example, the 1.6 liter 185 hp, or the 1.8 195 hp, or the 2.0 240 hp. Torque i cannot be highered from a NA motor, it is very hard, you need forced introduction, but hosepower can be raised, by using technology such as highrevving vtec engines.

Also Honda motors get losts of Horsepower per liter, meaning that out of a small engine lots of horsepower is extracted, honda sport oriented engines are famous for that. By raising the redline power is increased in large amounts and torque is not, take for example, the 1.6 liter 185 hp, or the 1.8 195 hp, or the 2.0 240 hp. Torque i cannot be highered from a NA motor, it is very hard, you need forced introduction, but hosepower can be raised, by using technology such as highrevving vtec engines.

Actually a lot "import" guys out there seem to cling to this HP/Liter thing. To me it doesn't matter how the power is made (forced induction, larger engine, etc.). As long as I have that power in my car that's all I care about.

It all has to do with the displacement of the motor. Example a 2000 Civic Si 1.6 DOHC Vtec will have less 111tq, compared to a 2000 Integra GSR 1.8 DOHC Vtec with 128tq.
A 92 Dodge Daytona has a 2.5 motor with 100 hp and 135tq. That is why V8 Motors have so much tq because they have like 5.7 litres.
Pretty much, the design of the motor lends itself to a higher RPM range, and a completely different powerband than most domestic that run higher displacement, and why a Honda civic with a B16 that puts out 111 lbs ft can smpoke say a Cavalier the puts down 150, because torque NUMBERS, and Hp NUMBERS don't actually mean shit. It is 100% usable powerband, when and where your motor makes power. To give you a dramatic example look at your typical Mack truck, here are some specs from a Mack...

Mack E7-300 E-TECH (Electronic)
300 HP @ 1950 Gov. RPM
1160 lb. ft. Max. Torque @ 1200 RPM

Ok, so the Mack E7 motor makes 10 times the torque of a B16A right, so, why can't you drag them, I mean shit, look at that torque number. Because it doesn't put the power to use, and torque is just a NUMBER. By tself it is useless, you have to put it to the ground.

macks are also so goddam heavy lol. anybody ever see tractor trailer drag racing??? lol its fuggin sweet :)

macks are also so goddam heavy lol. anybody ever see tractor trailer drag racing??? lol its fuggin sweet :)
Exactly my point.

Actually a lot "import" guys out there seem to cling to this HP/Liter thing. To me it doesn't matter how the power is made (forced induction, larger engine, etc.). As long as I have that power in my car that's all I care about.

Yes, HP/Liter is calculated at only one exact point on the engine's RPM scale. In a street sports car, it is more important to have a higher average horsepower rating. No engine spends it's entire life at 8,5000 RPMs; Sometimes we have to stop at a red lights.

Pretty much, the design of the motor lends itself to a higher RPM range

Yes, the ratio of the rod length versus crank stroke dictates the shape of the power band of the engine. However, HP and Torque numbers are important because they provide insight into when and where the power is delivered.
Also, if the Mack truck had an imaginary 15 speed automatic transmission with incredibly tightly spaced gears, it would be very fast down the quartermile. But transmission gearing is entirely off this threads topic of HP/Trq on a Honda engine.

So far you guys make sense. I look at two things myself: 1) The curve of the power band (the fatter the better, while peaky powerplants suck) and 2) How much power do I get at a low end. For instance in my GP I have excellent power down low, but it runs out of air as I get into the higher RPMs. To my driving needs, I prefer the low end for passing,
merging and quick starts.

Yes, the ratio of the rod length versus crank stroke dictates the shape of the power band of the engine. However, HP and Torque numbers are important because they provide insight into when and where the power is delivered.
Also, if the Mack truck had an imaginary 15 speed automatic transmission with incredibly tightly spaced gears, it would be very fast down the quartermile. But transmission gearing is entirely off this threads topic of HP/Trq on a Honda engine.
Hp and torque numbers as displayed from a factory sticker are usless, and drwan up to lure buyers into thinking they are getting something better than they are. I'll even sight Honda as a prome example of this. 99-00 Si 160hp, but like you said no one spends all day at 7900 rpms, and under 5000 rpms is hardly impressive in that heavy ass chassis. But now drop that in say a VX or CX, weight over a thousand pounds less, and that becomes a fairly competitive little car, I know, I hung with a 2003 Civic type R yesterday all the way to about 90 mph in mine. And about the tranny gearing, it isn't off topic at all, since it is DIRECTLY related to how a car performs, and how it translates it powerband into a forward motion, which is hte bases of hp and torque comparisions in the first place, right?

Hp and torque numbers as displayed from a factory sticker are usless, and drwan up to lure buyers into thinking they are getting something better than they are. I'll even sight Honda as a prome example of this. 99-00 Si 160hp, but like you said no one spends all day at 7900 rpms, and under 5000 rpms is hardly impressive in that heavy ass chassis. But now drop that in say a VX or CX, weight over a thousand pounds less, and that becomes a fairly competitive little car, I know, I hung with a 2003 Civic type R yesterday all the way to about 90 mph in mine. And about the tranny gearing, it isn't off topic at all, since it is DIRECTLY related to how a car performs, and how it translates it powerband into a forward motion, which is hte bases of hp and torque comparisions in the first place, right?

Yes I agree, the gearing is extremely important and should be included as part of this discussion. On an off topic for a second. My wife and I are considering getting a new car. '04 Accord V6 (coupe/sedan) is one of our many choices. Can I get the Honda/Acura side of the deliberation??

The 04 accord V6 coupe i've driven smooth ride nice handling good good power. I liked it plus allmost every car mag can't be wrong to agree.

The 04 accord V6 coupe i've driven smooth ride nice handling good good power. I liked it plus allmost every car mag can't be wrong to agree.

Once again your command of spelling and grammar failed you my friend.

I was just wondering about something. For some reason, Honda/Acura cars almost always have a much higher horsepower than torque. For example, Accord(240,212), S2000(240,161), TL(270,238), etc..Now this is not a knock on these particular brands, rather a curiousity. Does anyone know the reason(s) why?!


Hello GP2K,

It appears that your thread started as a question regarding engine architecture and its effects on torque ratings but then was hijacked into many unrelated topics. Good Luck.

Torque is the the meansurement of a tortional energy in a mass(twisting force). Horsepower is a function of torque and engine speed. With a given torque the higher the engine speed the higher the horsepower. Engines are designed with limits. The average honda has a much higher rpm range than say a domestic counterpart, they also have a really sloppy torque curve, FAR from flat.

You missed the key point of the specs on those cars. @ what RPM
A few examples.
2004 Accord V6 240hp@6250rpm 212lb-ft@5000rpm
2004 Mustang V6 190hp@5250rpm 220lb-ft@2750rpm
2004 focus SVT 170hp@7000rpm 145lb-ft@5500rpm
2002 S2000 240hp@8300rpm 153lb-ft@7500rpm
2004 H1 205hp@3400rpm 440lb-ft@1800rpm
2004 Phaeton W12 420hp@6000rpm 406lb-ft@3250rpm
2004 Maybach 64 543hp@5250rpm 664lb-ft@2300rpm(threw that in for s$%ts and giggles)

Notice something with those numbers?

Torque is the the meansurement of a tortional energy in a mass(twisting force). Horsepower is a function of torque and engine speed. With a given torque the higher the engine speed the higher the horsepower. Engines are designed with limits. The average honda has a much higher rpm range than say a domestic counterpart, they also have a really sloppy torque curve, FAR from flat.

You missed the key point of the specs on those cars. @ what RPM
A few examples.
2004 Accord V6 240hp@6250rpm 212lb-ft@5000rpm
2004 Mustang V6 190hp@5250rpm 220lb-ft@2750rpm
2004 focus SVT 170hp@7000rpm 145lb-ft@5500rpm
2002 S2000 240hp@8300rpm 153lb-ft@7500rpm
2004 H1 205hp@3400rpm 440lb-ft@1800rpm
2004 Phaeton W12 420hp@6000rpm 406lb-ft@3250rpm
2004 Maybach 64 543hp@5250rpm 664lb-ft@2300rpm(threw that in for s$%ts and giggles)

Notice something with those numbers?

I noticed that Hondas make/reach their torque peak at higher RPMs than others. Also the horsepower is reached further up the RPMs. See that's what I don't like, is the sloppy torque curve as you said it.

It's just how honda tunes them. Tune it for peak torque at some absurd number and you get fuel economy and emissions when you're not in the gas. Like my little V6 accord. I've run a 15.13, but on a recent trip got 32mpg, so it's kind of peppy, but when I drive nice I get pretty damn good fuel economy. I think honda's specific goal is the best emissions ratings, as well as some of the best gas milage for the horsepower they claim, but it comes at a sacrifice. I've had a hard time explaining to my best friend why I barely take him in his 98 maxima v6 since he's really not much into cars(he designs semiconductors, and has a hard time getting matching socks on, so I give him a break). The concept of torque escapes him. He's into the HP number which means a little, but not as much as torque to me. Off the line he murders me, then I play catchup in second gear, and finally leave pull away from him in 3rd gear, and I dyno with almost as much hp to the ground as he has to the crank, but his car is making peak torque before my torque convertor even thinks about engaging, and LONG before my Vtec is even considering switching cam profiles, so by the time my slow pig gets out of the hole, he's pulling like a mother. Aside from the piss poor auto transmission in a 6th gen V6 accord, the torque just makes for a gutless car off of the line, however it's pretty strange that from a roll(30mph on) I can keep up with one of my other friend's Autotragic 96 Mustang GT Ragtop, even though his torque is much better than mine my HP pulls me but along just fine after I get to a decent rpm. Off the line he rapes me. By the time I can feel my car start pulling he's already 3-4 cars ahead, and it takes me to about 80 to finally get even with him.


I noticed someone else here mentions it in this thread, but the old concept of push pull really plays a strong part in the performance of a car. The torque pushes a car off of the line, and the HP pulls it through the rest of the trip. If you get a superb hole shot because of massive torque you're already up in a higher ramp letting your hp pull you through. If you have a torqueless wonder like my accord I have to rely on the HP on the high rpm to let me catch up.

It's just how honda tunes them. Tune it for peak torque at some absurd number and you get fuel economy and emissions when you're not in the gas. Like my little V6 accord. I've run a 15.13, but on a recent trip got 32mpg, so it's kind of peppy, but when I drive nice I get pretty damn good fuel economy. I think honda's specific goal is the best emissions ratings, as well as some of the best gas milage for the horsepower they claim, but it comes at a sacrifice. I've had a hard time explaining to my best friend why I barely take him in his 98 maxima v6 since he's really not much into cars(he designs semiconductors, and has a hard time getting matching socks on, so I give him a break). The concept of torque escapes him. He's into the HP number which means a little, but not as much as torque to me. Off the line he murders me, then I play catchup in second gear, and finally leave pull away from him in 3rd gear, and I dyno with almost as much hp to the ground as he has to the crank, but his car is making peak torque before my torque convertor even thinks about engaging, and LONG before my Vtec is even considering switching cam profiles, so by the time my slow pig gets out of the hole, he's pulling like a mother. Aside from the piss poor auto transmission in a 6th gen V6 accord, the torque just makes for a gutless car off of the line, however it's pretty strange that from a roll(30mph on) I can keep up with one of my other friend's Autotragic 96 Mustang GT Ragtop, even though his torque is much better than mine my HP pulls me but along just fine after I get to a decent rpm. Off the line he rapes me. By the time I can feel my car start pulling he's already 3-4 cars ahead, and it takes me to about 80 to finally get even with him.


I noticed someone else here mentions it in this thread, but the old concept of push pull really plays a strong part in the performance of a car. The torque pushes a car off of the line, and the HP pulls it through the rest of the trip. If you get a superb hole shot because of massive torque you're already up in a higher ramp letting your hp pull you through. If you have a torqueless wonder like my accord I have to rely on the HP on the high rpm to let me catch up.

Excellent post! Thank you for some honesty regarding Honda and an Accord in particular. :smile: