Hi guys,

I'm the car columnist for the LA Times. I just test drove the GTO and also just got back from SEMA this week. The car is a stout piece and I give GM a lot of credit for building it.

I want to write a story about the GTO and the aftermarket. As you all probably know, GM declined to provide specs on the car to the aftermarket guys, like SLP Engineering, in what seems like an effort to monopolize the GTO customizing business with its own tuner package ("AutoCross," is it?) due out next year.

You all also probably know SLP is ramping up to offer the Bobcat and Judge packages, in defiance of GM's claim on the Judge copyright. GM is not happy, but I've heard rumors that GM was going to capitulate on this. In any event, it's only a matter of time before other companies start offering GTO variants of their own.

Here are my questions:

What is missing in the new GTO -- what essential GTO-ness -- that aftermarket guys could supply? The car is amazingly non-descript now. Do you think that's intentional, so GM has room to zoot it up in subsequent optional packages? Is this the blank canvas?

Why do you think GM is being stingy with the GTO? At SEMA this week it seemed like every OEM was desperate to get a bigger piece of that $27 billion pie. And not just the OEM's. Galpin Motor, the biggest Ford delaership in the country, is opening a custom shop. They'll do all the work and put on all the parts, from seat covers to dubs, and finance it as part of your purchase price. Do you think GM's strategy will backfire, or will it be a good source of profit? I tend to think a lot of cool things come out of the aftermarket.

What do you think about the GTO styling?

Are there other companies that are good candidates to "rice-ify" the GTO. Like E&G, for instance?

I need people who are passionate about GTO -- multiple owners, those with their orders in -- willing to be quoted in the paper. So please send name and city to dan.neil@latimes.com with your responses.

Thanks guys.

The only thing I really think the GTO is missing is the turn-your-head muscle car styling. It looks like anything else on the road. I would love some functional hood scoops, indented grills, and a dual exhaust with a pipe coming from either side of the car. As you can tell, all of these are styling cues. Nothing needs to be done with the performance, other than a 400 HP LS6 pakage offered by Pontiac. The new GTO at SEMA looked promising, there were triumphs and flaws. I can't wait to see what the aftermarket offers, and also what Pontiac will offer in the next years. This is supposedly a 3-year thing for GM, but if it sells well, which I think it will, they will keep 'em coming. I am looking forward to the SLP packages as well. I own a 1966 GTO, so my expectations were hire. However, the performance lives up to waht I expected and then some. It will be a true Mustang eater, but I don't like either car's styling more than the other. But it will get better both with aftermarket and in the years to come with Pontiac. GM's not stupid, and they will be going in the right direction with their modern muscle car.

I guess that pretty much sums up what you asked, but I am of course partial to the classic 60's GTOs...

First off, if the rumours of the cars power are true (low 5 second 0-60, 13.5 second quarter), then, it will have no trouble living up to the heritage of the GTO name. And keep it from flopping as horribly as the Slower-than-an-Accord-Marauder.

The car is based on Holden's from Australia, which are very good cars, and should be sold here. Australias general attitude towards cars is somewhere in between European and American tastes; which means it should be very appealing to people here looking for a car with European driving qualities, but at a more affordable price with a bit more room.
While not the type of car I would like to buy right out of University, it would hold appeal for me when I get to my 30's, and perhaps have a family to carry around. This car would be both eminently practical, and very fun to drive. Im very glad that a manual transmission is offered, as I personally will never buy a car with an automatic, unless it is a pure luxury car.

After seeing the concept interiors, I am extremely pleased. The layout is straightforward, and looks high quality. If they feel high quality, and last for longer than the duration of the warranty, it'll be an top-notch interior. As long as Pontiac is able to refrain from tacky plastic and shapes for the sake of shapes in the interior, of course.

The exterior styling is subjective. Im glad there is no typical gaudy Pontiac molding. However, I would like to see a small functional hood scoop (a shaker hood would be fairly awesome.) At least put in a hood bulge. Other than that, there isnt much that can be done on a large coupe, other than keeping it clean, which the GTO is.

All in all, I think that this is one of GM's best new products from the past few years.

I'll be blunt, GTO's were badass, and this one is just disgusting. For today’s technology I think for the money they could do much better performance wise and the styling is just horrid. This is one less buyer of this new "Muscle Car". :2cents:

Are we talking about the concept or the production GTO? The concept is the ugliest car I have ever seen, but the production is a very nice car, maybe a bit bland, the 'old' dead Firebird is by far much better looking. The concept does though have "turn your head styling" just though in a bad way. GM should have used a different body style than the Holden and should have made a replacement for the Firebird. Oh if anybody rices the (production)gto ill kill them. You can only make the concept better though. the production gto would look terible with hood scoops on them and they should not put mitsu or mustang gt like hood scoops on it, they should put hood scoops on the next gto like the one on the concept! More hp would be a pluss also.

i thinks thats some hot shiznit right there. the older one's were tight, but i like the new modern look. i cant wait to see what else the future brings.

nice man that looks kick ass!if that woks good i hope they can also bring back the camaro.

Remember when you criticize the styling; GM isnt willing to spend a huge sum of money to create and manufacture an entirely different platform. Since its based on a Holden, it has potential for production (obviously). But, it has certain size requirements, and certain strong points in the structure that cannot be compromised. These hard points are compromises between the engineers and stylists; but since the original car has been made, the restyling has many restrictions.
And its a large coupe; a very difficult design challenge, as customers wont settle for a small interior caused by radical styling.
All in all, I think they did a good job with it.

If you remember back to the original GTO"s Pontiac hopped it up and put some badges on a non-descript Tempest and produced the awesome GTO's. As the years went on Pontiac refined it and made it one awesome driving and cruising machineThe new one looks like the same blank page. Take a non-descript vehicle hop it up and then refine it. I personally like the looks of the new GTO and look forward to what will become of it in the years to come. Long live the GTO

Jack

it looks like a mid 90's thunderbird. yuck. i like the interior though.

Performance wise I think it's a great start. Styling wise I think they dropped the ball...big time! Ford and especially Dodge/Chrysler are having a field day with cars made with styling cues from the past. I don't see one thing relevant to previous GTO's in this car.

A hood tach would be the first thing on my list.

The new GTO(not concept) is bad ass - can't wait for the Judge.

Nothing will compare to the original GTO - Ferrari!

Hey guys, I responded to Dan at the LA Times directly but thought you might be interested in seeing what I had to say...
- - -
Hey there Dan, I own a '67 GTO convertible (bought by my mom brand new in '67!) and saw your post at Automotive Forums. Interesting questions.

Firstly I have to admit that I ride the fence when it comes to 'tuner culture'. Sure it's modern hot rodding - but what made original hot rodders cool was that they were taking nothing or junker cars and turning them into something.

I can't quite get the concept of buying a new Civic and putting a bunch of lights and the wing off or a Cessna (if a Ferrari doesn't need one, neither do they) on it and somehow equating that with performance.

Now that said, there are indeed companies out there making aftermarket performance mods that are truly for performance - not looks. And realistically that's what Yenko and Bobcat and so forth did back in the 60s and 70s.

So from an aftermarket sense, I don't have a problem with GM not offering up the info to the aftermarket boys... that's what modification is supposed to be about... innovation!

Now the new GTO will be hot right out of the box. And if Aussie manufacturing protocols are upheld then it will be a very solid car indeed (remember that Holden is not only the most profitable affiliate of GM, but has one of the highest satisfaction/quality ratings).

However when it comes to styling GM dropped the ball big time. The new GTO is no Goat! It is mundane. GM could've taken the Monaro and done some interesting things to it stylistically... but they didn't. As a GTO aficionado I can only hope that the strategy is to get the car out, use the history yet appeal to a much younger crowd, and sell a bunch right away. In the process, see what kind of mods are being done and listen to what the 'old school' has to say.

One of the problems with all of the 'retro look' vehicles is that you can't really change them. What do you do to the PT Cruiser? the New Beetle? The Mini? once that style becomes tired?

With the New GTO coming out rather plain, GM has the opportunity to go through several iterations of models. We could see an upcoming model with modified headlights to give a stacked look and an elongated grill (to the thrill of the '65-7 crowd); there could be a mimic of the endura bumper and twin scoops (a al 68-70). Heck we could even see a bodywork redesign giving the car more of a trunk (may sound silly but look at the new Chrysler Hemi! That looks like a muscle car!!).

So I guess that despite the bland nature of the New GTO, it will endear itself through its performance. And gives GM the option to let the vehicle grow. With Lutz at the helm, you have to think that there has been more than just short term thinking at play.

Hope this helps.
Cheers, Jack.

I have heard from Speed Vision TV that GM will be offering hood scoops for the GTO in the 2005 model. These scoops will resemble something to the look of the 64 GTO's nonfunctional hood scoops. If that happens then great because a GTO is not a GTO without the hood scoops.

Also as was previously said the dual exhaust pipes need to extend to both ends of the car, not just the left side. That is rediculous on Pontiac's part, as you see all of Pontiac's other models Grand Am, Firebird, Grand Prix, Bonneville, even the Sunfire has a "dual exhaust" looking setup.

A new bright orange Judge would be nice from SLP but I agree that should be the right of Pontiac and GM to decide. The Judge was kind of like the SS model is to Chevrolet, and if Pontiac wants to make a new Judge, that should be their decision and not some aftermarket company.

Also the price is a problem. It seems that this GTO is going to be a few more thousand then a fully loaded Trans Am. They should have a more basic model of this GTO for the people who can't dish out that kind of money. Cloth seats or just plain black leather, none of the fancy guages and stitching, no aluminum interior pieces, keeping the cost down would make this car a little more successful. I have a feeling because of that price that Pontiac isn't going to sell as many as they would like.

I heard about the hood scoops, but I was hoping they would be functional. I hope at least they look good... I agree on the exhaust, if you make a car have true dual exhausts, make it look like it does too. About the Judge, it's Pontiac's fault they can't make it. They should've help on to the name and not let another company get their hands on it. But I think SLP's two packages will be very cool... I still hope Pontiac makes a 400+ HP LS6 GTO option. About the price, it is pretty low considering the performance and luxurious interior. I would be happy if they made a lower-cost option, most of the money off from the interior, like you said. Make the spoiler an option as well. But with the price as it is, these things will sell, and Pontiac should keep making them after the proposed 3 years.

it looks kinda funny and doesnt give it that muscle car feeling!

it looks kinda funny and doesnt give it that muscle car feeling!

It may not be the nicest car out there but I am sure it gives that 'muscle car feeling' when you are behind the wheel!

im scared guys i think they might use that f**king homosexual model on gto.com!NOOOOOOOO, are you guys sure that it will be that kick ass orange one or that pussy one on gto.com?help ccuz i was about to finally like pontiac, but if they use the gto.com one i wont like them anymore...the only ok part is the corvette engine and kind of on the interior but thats all :sly: :disappoin

What are you talking about? Are you referring to the 1999 GTO concept when you say 'the orange one.' That was a foam prototype with no interior and was meant just to attract some attention. The 2004 GTO, which I guess is the one you are calling a 'pussy' car, is a Holden Monaro slightly restyled to make it the new Pontiac GTO. Yes, that is the one that is seen on pontiac.com/gto.

First off...lets remember that this new GTO is introduced right after the cancellation of the Camaro and Firebird. Also remember that young adult American males are infatuated with muscle cars. However, this car is not a muscle car.
The auto industry in the USA is finally beginning to feel a recent trend. For years, American buyers have believed that economy, safety, and ease of use could only come from over-produced front-wheel-drive cars that offer no true "muscle." Don't get me wrong, I have a '93 Cavalier RS 3.1, and it is fun to drive, reasonably quick, and feels muscular for a FWD coupe. It is 99% reliable, but certainly lacking any true quality.
The retired Camaro/Firebird were also lacking in any true quality. This is why the Monaro is being introduced here. Sure, the price is a bit steep compared to its predecessors, and the performance is exactly the same, but the LS1 is perhaps the best engine GM has produced, EVER! Also, if the body and chassis of the new GTO are as stiff and rigid as they say, the car should be much safer and retain its "quality" much longer than the old rear-drivers (which we all know were fast but really pieces of junk.) This new car also reportedly gets better gas mileage than my 4cyl S10.
Finally, a car to break the mass illusion of FWD superiority. This new GTO reflects the trend of global automakers trying to get back to simpler RWD cars that last and perform. But remember, the GTO is only planned to be here for 3 years. I hope I see a Corvette based performer after that time (like the XLR? CTS-V?) Americans love performance, but the "muscle car" is dead.

I'd like to see this car offered with back doors. In the modern market, 2 door cars really just don't sell that well. Remember when they used to make lots of sports cars and sporty coupes? The Camaro and Firebird are gone, the Ford Probe is gone, the two door versions of the Grand Prix and Grand Am can't be had in 2 door form. Even the not-so-sporty 2 doors are disappearing. The 2 door Cherokee is gone, as well as the 2 door Bronco (Expedition), as well as Japanese cars such as the Camry and Corolla. As of late, only Honda and Toyota seem to have found a market for nice midmarket 2 door cars.

If this car is starting life as a price-bloated semi-luxury sports car, it will have nowhere to go. It is beginning life at the end of the road traveled by the Z car, the 300GT, the Thunderbird, among others. Its being offered only as a 30,000 playtoy for the middleaged in their midlife crises... No matter how great its performance, it won't be able to compete in the modern market.

Look at the Firebird and Camaro. They'd become very much niche cars. They didn't offer versatility, they had fallen behind stylistically, they were cramped, loud, and uncomfortable. As much as I'd love to have seen them stick around a while longer, I'd have never owned one. The high sticker, the high gas consumption, the cramped interior, the wild back end in low traction conditions, and general poor reliability record would have outweighed the pure machismo of cruising in a 'Maro or 'Bird. The F-body is a legend, but one whose age had come to show a bit to clearly... after all, under all the sporty body work, it was basically a mid 70's car. Definately NOT worth the inflated costs.

As much as I admire this car as quite an improvement over the F-Body, I can't see it as a future success.

Well, you're somewhat right. There is a market for 2 door cars, but not a large one, especially for $32,000 bland Pontiacs. That is why this is just a 3-year thing for GM. They will sell well for these 3 years, even as just a collector's item. You make an interesting but irrelevant point about 2-door SUVs. Of course they were failures and are now obsilete. What the hell do you do with a 2-door 'sport utility vehicle.' About the F-bodies, there were many reasons this failed that had nothing to do with the 2-door sports car idea they were built on. I am sure there are many on people on this forum that can give you all the reasons, unfortunately I am not one of them. But bringing me back to my point, there will be a market for the new GTO over the aparent 3 year span. It has a roomy back seat for a 2 door, better interior than most cars GM is putting out there, and 350 horses. Oh yea, not to mention the famous 3 letters: GTO.

First off...lets remember that this new GTO is introduced right after the cancellation of the Camaro and Firebird. Also remember that young adult American males are infatuated with muscle cars. However, this car is not a muscle car.
The auto industry in the USA is finally beginning to feel a recent trend. For years, American buyers have believed that economy, safety, and ease of use could only come from over-produced front-wheel-drive cars that offer no true "muscle." Don't get me wrong, I have a '93 Cavalier RS 3.1, and it is fun to drive, reasonably quick, and feels muscular for a FWD coupe. It is 99% reliable, but certainly lacking any true quality.
The retired Camaro/Firebird were also lacking in any true quality. This is why the Monaro is being introduced here. Sure, the price is a bit steep compared to its predecessors, and the performance is exactly the same, but the LS1 is perhaps the best engine GM has produced, EVER! Also, if the body and chassis of the new GTO are as stiff and rigid as they say, the car should be much safer and retain its "quality" much longer than the old rear-drivers (which we all know were fast but really pieces of junk.) This new car also reportedly gets better gas mileage than my 4cyl S10.
Finally, a car to break the mass illusion of FWD superiority. This new GTO reflects the trend of global automakers trying to get back to simpler RWD cars that last and perform. But remember, the GTO is only planned to be here for 3 years. I hope I see a Corvette based performer after that time (like the XLR? CTS-V?) Americans love performance, but the "muscle car" is dead.
and no the ls1 isnt gm's greatest engine, i suppose the ls6 is...and "the muscle car is dead"-your wrong what about corvette and viper, or am i just answering the part that you meant the gto mucle car is dead?

[Disclaimer: I would love to buy this GTO, but I won't be able to afford a new car for years.]

I think the GTO offers practicality and performance with the drawback of bland styling. I would still consider it well worth a buy, if I could afford it.

However, I would not call it a muscle car. It sounds good like a muscle car, and it moves quickly like a muscle car, true. On the other hand, muscle cars were relatively cheap. Hopefully the premium the GTO commands will be offset by improved handling, reliability, and safety.

I think DeViL is on to something with regards to offering a base model. Ford continues to produce Mustang V6s because many people continue to buy them. I am pretty sure the Holden Monaro - the basis for the GTO - is available with a V6 and optional supercharger. That could put a low end GTO within the buying power of many people who just can't afford the $31,000 base cost of the V8 version.

V6 GTO is a contradicting statement. For Pontiac to make a 6-cylindar GTO would be heresy. They could strip down the interior a bit and that would drop the price, but I see nothing else happening. To pay $32,000 for a car, like you said, that looks so bland is rediculous to me. Someone on another forum said just look at it as a blank canvas for the aftermarket. But aftermarket parts means even more money. I guess the price is pretty good considering... I don't know what other cars offer that performance with semi-luxurious interior and good build quality for under $35,000. But that is expensive and thus one reason it is a 3-year project with limited quantities. If GM was going or the long haul, they would have to eventually add a V6 to keep the sales up, not to mention some major changes in styling. To me it is still sad that they based the car that is bringing back Pontiac's greatest performance legend on a different manufacturer's automobile. Shouldn't this be a task for a major design team. Hell, you're bringing back one of the greatest muscle cars of all time, and you are using another car to do so, just because it's never been sold in the States. I wanted to see Holdens in the US but not under these sercumstances. And because Pontiac had limited time to change the Monaro into the GTO, would it have been so bad to hold off production another year so you can make the car look better. Or god forbid hold it back a few years and design a new car yourself. I can rant and rave about this for days like I did when the car came out. But I received so much criticizm for these comments that I just started to be a 'yes' man of sorts and agreed with everything Pontiac was doing to this GTO and agreed with every positive comment made. But there is no escaping that Pontiac ruined a performance legend, perhaps scarring the name forever. Bring back the GTO, and make it a real MUSCLE CAR!

This new GTO is the first sensible, competitive and well executed sports sedan to come along from GM in many years. Thankfully, today's car market is really beginning to reflect the mass exodus of buyers into the SUV field by demanding cars with personality, true sporting intentions and a real level of both mechanical and aesthetic complexity. While the GTO is certainly not a polarizing car to look at (which is exactly what I believe GM was looking for... a non-confrontational package from the outside), it's presence in the market is extremely important for them.

First off, it's the only car they build outside of the Corvette with serious power and a sophisticated drivetrain/suspension. It also represents an important shift in production methods... 80,000 units a year were apparently not enough to make the Camaro/Firebird profitable for the General, but somehow they've managed to balance the books on importing 18,000 examples of the GTO. Thank God, for if economics at GM require them to sell over 100,000 units a year to see a profit we'll never see niche market and true sports cars from them again. And that is just how Nissan found itself facing oblivion in America a few short years ago, folks. It turns out that car people really do influence the larger buying public, and any manufacturer who ignores our sect in this country suffers dearly over the long haul.

So point to point: heritage. What is it with everyone claiming this car slaughters the GTO heritage? The originals looked damn near identical to their sedated passenger car cousins, the whole idea was a wolf in sheep's clothing and it played out expertly. The brains behind a muscle car were (and still are) found in pulling a weak sedan off the line and stuffing a serious motor into it, is this new GTO so different? Quite right, the shape sure could have a 200hp V6 in the nose and be just another largish coupe plodding around town with a 4 speed auto. But no, this one has an especially nice stance to it and a 350hp V8 under the hood. And it's all connected to a bulletproof 6 speed manual that'll give most drivers all the involvement they ever wanted while tossing around a 3700 lb vehicle through the corners, leaving black stripes at each apex as they dig deep into the LS1 and it's prodigious power. And this car really handles to boot, something no "muscle" car has ever before laid serious claim to.

Engineering: This car is very well thought out. It's got the right suspension, the right motor and the right chassis to do the job. The proportions are all there; a wind cheating shape, a comfortable and ergonomic cockpit, just about exactly the amount of power the tires will put up with and plenty of headroom under the hood for the corporate power mongers to play with... should any manufacturer decide to enter the fray.

Pricing: Find me another sporting 2+2 with a powerful V8 and well designed running gear for $33,000. Until then, the G35, 5 series and C class owners will have to make do with their slick sheetmetal and/or European badging as antidotes to buyer's remorse.

Styling: Give them a break. This is one of GM's largest gambles in recent memory, at least let them package the thing in sheetmetal that won't set off 80% of the population into convulsion. Given that this is a Pontiac, I'm still reeling from the fact the interior doesn't strongly remind me of a Fisher Price toy... no huge gray buttons or child safety rounded plastic corners seem to jump out at me, woohoo! Kudos to GM for making this an adult playground, and one where we can effortlessly slide into the fast lane and run near a buck down byways without bending the ear of every radar gun in the county. It's not bland, it's just simple. And simple is good, lest we forget what fancy is in Pontiac's language: a golden fire chicken emblazoned on the cowl induction hood of an all black T-topped monstrosity. Vanilla is the most popular flavor for a reason, ya know.

Final point: if GM can find reasons to build and sell cars like this in America, they aren't quite dead yet. Both Ford and GM still seem to be slow to realize the sort of technology buyers want in their cars these days (indeed, many of their best sellers survive through fleet service in rental garages across the country), but this car may represent a turning point for GM. They've designed a fantastic pickup to carry them into the next 5 years, they've finally got a sports car program everyone can envy... and now they're realizing how to build and market proper midsize performance cars. All it'll take is a little more investment and perhaps we'll again hear the blat of a Camaro exhaust, redesigned with a modern chassis and running gear this time, at a stoplight near you. Praise the GTO, for it may mark the return of American muscle to the streets of the modern world.

^^Well said. :smile:

To the guy who said the GTO comes from another manufacturer: the General owns Holden, it is just another division like Pontiac.

If they were to consider a base model, I would call it the Pontiac Lemans, put in the 3.8L V6 (non supercharged), single exhaust (stock Monaro), 16" X 8" wheels, cloth interior, but keep the drivetrain (6 speed & independant) to allow for power modifications.

^^Well said. :smile:

To the guy who said the GTO comes from another manufacturer: the General owns Holden, it is just another division like Pontiac.

If they were to consider a base model, I would call it the Pontiac Lemans, put in the 3.8L V6 (non supercharged), single exhaust (stock Monaro), 16" X 8" wheels, cloth interior, but keep the drivetrain (6 speed & independant) to allow for power modifications.

I was just going to say that. Make a base GTO with a V6 or supercharged V6, and name it the Pontiac LeMans. If the price was in the low-mid $20,000s, I bet it would sell really well.

About the LeMans idea, I am sure GM would be a huge fan of that if this wasn't just a 3-year project. They would know not to make a V6 GTO to lower the price, so go back to the past again and call it a LeMans. I am a fan of the idea but am aware that the car won't be around long enough. It wouldn't be worth it to make it for one or two years...

About the new GTO... I know GM owns Holden, but that doesn't change the fact that the GTO is someone else's design. I understand what texan is saying about the original GTOs looking like the other Pontiac models. But I am not going to say the new GTO is okay because it resembles the Grand Am, Grand Prix, and Bonneville. I also don't want a retro look like the 2005 Mustang, unless someone could come up with a nice new design looking like a '66 GTO. I don't see that happenning. I just wanted the new GTO to have a little attitude and muscle and not be a sleeper. I want you to know my car has some power. And don't get me wrong, I like the new GTO and I would rather them make this one than not make one at all. I will just go back to my point and say this is not a Pontiac GTO, it is a Holden Monaro. I get a lot of criticizm then from the guys who are buying this car because they love everything about it, not because it is the new GTO. I just think us GTO enthusiasts have a reason to be a little upset with the way this turned out. Most of my posts are coming from the view of an owner of a 1966 GTO, not a guy who is a fan of GM today. I am both, and I am just trying to state my oppinion on why the new GTO doesn't live up to it's heritage. Not as much as the Mustang, not as much as the 350Z, not as much as the Corvette...

It's ideas like making GTO's 4 doors that only GM would read from this site and actually think it's a good idea. That's there level of thinking.

When you buy a 2-door cars like the V8 F-bodies and Mustangs, you know when you buy it that it doesn't have as much practical use as a Taurus or Grand Prix. Comfort and luxary are not the point in buying the car, it never has been since day one in '64. Did Chevelles have a purpose other than going really fast and sucking up gas? No, F-bodies were no different in the 60's, and the GTO is the same way. These muscle cars are bought as something you leave in your garage all week, drive your Honda Civic to work, then on the weekends take the muscle car out and cruise, knowing you have a car faster then almost everything else on the road. Naturally not every situation works that way, thats just ideally.

However V6 Mustangs seem to have found a good spot for the market, I'd say mostly due to the very low cost and trunk space. The V8's have the same space but like I said they are not something for daily use like the V6 is. It's something sporty people can drive back and forth to work and not have a bland looking car like everyone else has, it's sporty, and it has pretty good gas mileage. The GTO could actually share this category because the shape is very similar, and it also has a good size trunk. But like what is said if they are only going to make this for 3 years a V6 Le Mans version is out of the question.

I believe that there are two reasons for the three year time limit:

#1: the Holden Monaro upon which the GTO is based is nearing the end of it's production run on it's current chassis.

#2: not knowing if an Australian built GTO will sell well in the U.S., GM has decided what minimum production volume it needs to sell to break even or make a profit, and wants to suggest limited availability to encourage sales.

If the GTO turns out to be a hot seller, then I don't doubt that they will design a new one after three years, based on a new chassis common to other new cars. In that case, they very well might include a base Lemans at that time.

Nice car, great performance. My understanding is that the Holden Monaro also has great handling and road characteristics, more in line with European sports sedans than most American sedans.

The styling is not bad in itself, but would benefit strongly from add-ons. The hood scoop is really a must, and others here have offered their own suggestions.

I'm curious to see how successful this car will be over the long-haul.

This car is amazing......I would love to have this car. The sleek style of it just makes me want to reach out and grab it.

When does this car come out?

Supposedly appearing at Pontiac showrooms near you this December. So keep an eye out.

To me, looks like a chop from the automotive art/graphic manipulation forum gone wrong, I like what I have heard about the handling though.

It looks like a variant of the Trans Am. In my opinion, the Trans Am has turned into a girls car, compared to the car it was in the '60's. Dad had a '64, and then a '67. This new car is just not unique looking.
Maybe I didn't answer your questions specifically, but that's my opinion.

Spdloader
T. Bryson
Thomasville, NC.

Hi guys,

I'm the car columnist for the LA Times. I just test drove the GTO and also just got back from SEMA this week. The car is a stout piece and I give GM a lot of credit for building it.

I want to write a story about the GTO and the aftermarket. As you all probably know, GM declined to provide specs on the car to the aftermarket guys, like SLP Engineering, in what seems like an effort to monopolize the GTO customizing business with its own tuner package ("AutoCross," is it?) due out next year.

You all also probably know SLP is ramping up to offer the Bobcat and Judge packages, in defiance of GM's claim on the Judge copyright. GM is not happy, but I've heard rumors that GM was going to capitulate on this. In any event, it's only a matter of time before other companies start offering GTO variants of their own.

Here are my questions:

What is missing in the new GTO -- what essential GTO-ness -- that aftermarket guys could supply? The car is amazingly non-descript now. Do you think that's intentional, so GM has room to zoot it up in subsequent optional packages? Is this the blank canvas?

Why do you think GM is being stingy with the GTO? At SEMA this week it seemed like every OEM was desperate to get a bigger piece of that $27 billion pie. And not just the OEM's. Galpin Motor, the biggest Ford delaership in the country, is opening a custom shop. They'll do all the work and put on all the parts, from seat covers to dubs, and finance it as part of your purchase price. Do you think GM's strategy will backfire, or will it be a good source of profit? I tend to think a lot of cool things come out of the aftermarket.

What do you think about the GTO styling?

Are there other companies that are good candidates to "rice-ify" the GTO. Like E&G, for instance?

I need people who are passionate about GTO -- multiple owners, those with their orders in -- willing to be quoted in the paper. So please send name and city to dan.neil@latimes.com with your responses.

Thanks guys.

Hi guys,

I'm the car columnist for the LA Times. I just test drove the GTO and also just got back from SEMA this week. The car is a stout piece and I give GM a lot of credit for building it.

I want to write a story about the GTO and the aftermarket. As you all probably know, GM declined to provide specs on the car to the aftermarket guys, like SLP Engineering, in what seems like an effort to monopolize the GTO customizing business with its own tuner package ("AutoCross," is it?) due out next year.

You all also probably know SLP is ramping up to offer the Bobcat and Judge packages, in defiance of GM's claim on the Judge copyright. GM is not happy, but I've heard rumors that GM was going to capitulate on this. In any event, it's only a matter of time before other companies start offering GTO variants of their own.

Here are my questions:

What is missing in the new GTO -- what essential GTO-ness -- that aftermarket guys could supply? The car is amazingly non-descript now. Do you think that's intentional, so GM has room to zoot it up in subsequent optional packages? Is this the blank canvas?

Why do you think GM is being stingy with the GTO? At SEMA this week it seemed like every OEM was desperate to get a bigger piece of that $27 billion pie. And not just the OEM's. Galpin Motor, the biggest Ford delaership in the country, is opening a custom shop. They'll do all the work and put on all the parts, from seat covers to dubs, and finance it as part of your purchase price. Do you think GM's strategy will backfire, or will it be a good source of profit? I tend to think a lot of cool things come out of the aftermarket.

What do you think about the GTO styling?

Are there other companies that are good candidates to "rice-ify" the GTO. Like E&G, for instance?

I need people who are passionate about GTO -- multiple owners, those with their orders in -- willing to be quoted in the paper. So please send name and city to dan.neil@latimes.com with your responses.

Thanks guys.

Sorry but, I'm old school hardcore and the only new car that would excite a true GTO or any previous 1964 - 1970 muscle car owner would be to transport back in time and buy one.
Front wheel drive 4 and 6 cylinder vehicles are not muscle cars.
Muscle cars have steel bumpers with massive chrome grills with teeth that eat little cars, mega amounts of interior, and gigantic v8 engines with 400 plus horse power.
They sound, smell and radiate high performance and do not have plastic safety bumpers packed with styro-foam.
Real muscle cars have carburetors, some have two or three and not electronic sensors with computers.
They have no cd player with 132 speakers
They have a motor that is facing forward with plenty of room that you can work on them without removing the damned engine. You can even change the spark plugs without busting your hands or head.
You can sit on the fender without having to pull out any dents even if you weigh in a 200 plus lbs.
They are big, loud, strong and beautiful.
Sorry, there are no serious muscle cars that are new. There are none being made today, its over and done with.
You can't un-f**k the automobile industry and the lobbyists who helped to rip it apart.
You can not undo the damage that the engineers have done to assist these greedy companies in their ultimate quest for the million dollar plastic and foam 1/2 horsepower 1 cylinder disposable vehicle.

If I buy another muscle car it will be from the late 60's early 70's. I could never be passionate about driving anything except the real thing.
Those people, especially of the new generations have no idea, they could never miss what they have never loved. They are clueless. They only know the miss-information, the overly commercialized, underpowered, overpriced lies of what they are led to believe is high-performance.
It's just a damned shame, it will never be the same. My heart aches.

Lucky Bastard - Pembroke Pines, Fl

Do you guys remember what the Nissan skyline GTR R35 concept looked like ? well at first i thought it was the most disgusting car but after a while it kinda grew on me and i like how it looks now, what i'm really trying to say is give it time. Usually the concepts differ from the final version

* deleted to save space *
Lucky Bastard - Pembroke Pines, Fl

If you're annoyed that the lobbyists have gotten their way as far as crumple zones, collapsable steering columns, and airbags, I respectfully disagree. If you got into a minor accident in a '66 Mustang, the 3000+ pounds of Detroit steel you were in would probably come out with just a few dents. The car was tough. You, on the other hand, would rattle around the inside like a tomato in a blender. I'd rather have my car take the brunt of the impact and not me.

If you're saying that the Chevy Impala SS, Nissan Maxima, Mitsubishi Lancer Evo, and a Honda Civic with a big spoiler and loud pipes aren't muscle cars, then I absolutely agree with you. On the other hand, the new GTO and the Mustang GT, Mach1, and SVT Cobra are all RWD cars with nice V8s and impressive handling. None of them top 400 horsepower stock, but they all have beautiful exhaust notes, respectable handling, and 0-60 mph and quarter mile times that very few 60s muscle cars can match. All that and better gas mileage on unleaded fuel too. I would call them the modern day muscle cars.

As a trade off for those safety improvements and more efficient engines, you lose the ability to easily work on the engine or tune your fuel/air mix. I can see how that's a real pain in the keister, but I think it's worth the trade off.

The only thing I really miss about the old fashioned muscle cars is the looks. I think even the retro Mustang doesn't hold a candle to the '66-'68 Mustangs, and while I really like the new GTO the older GTO looks a hundred times better.

Do you guys remember what the Nissan skyline GTR R35 concept looked like ? well at first i thought it was the most disgusting car but after a while it kinda grew on me and i like how it looks now, what i'm really trying to say is give it time. Usually the concepts differ from the final version

The new GTO was never a concept car. The 1999 GTO concept car was strictly a concept and is not the car they are building. It doesn't matter who that car grows on or who even knows it existed. The new GTO, as most should know, was previously produced as the Holden Monaro. So I don't know if you are mistaken or just thinking of the wrong Goat...

quickly
63 tempest was plain as hell in the 60's.. oit looked like every other car on the road... they made it a GTO

todays grand prix looks like every other car on the road.. frighteningly similar to the GTO

the GTO is the ultimate sleeper. thats the idea. its not out to be cool looking, or outrageous. its there to look like everything else on the road, only 2x as fast. the GTO will look cool in 2 years just like it did in the 1st gen. besides, as soon as they get the caddilac CTS frame under it (2-3 yrs.) and have it completely built in USA, the price will come down.

That's a good interpretation. The earlier muscle cars were pretty tame-looking, and it mostly wasn't until the late 60s - early 70s that we got the over-the-top add-ons and color schemes that we normally associate with the muscle car era.

I like the GTO but they should build a supercharged "Judge" version. They need to do that to show that they can take on any 4 banger GSX Evo or WRX that the japs can bring over, somthing that the Camaro and Firebird failed to do.

Muscle cars have steel bumpers with massive chrome grills with teeth that eat little cars, mega amounts of interior, and gigantic v8 engines with 400 plus horse power.


While I understand what you're trying to say, I have to chime in that most classic muscle cars had less than 400 horsepower...and even fewer of them would if they measured horsepower at the rear wheel as opposed to the flywheel like they did back then.

My family collects Oldsmobiles, and even my father's 70 W-30 makes less than 400 horsepower. Granted, it does have 500 lbs-ft of torque and an incredible power curve with its long stroke 455. :p

Sorry, didn't want to seem pedantic. Glad to see there are some old-school types posting here. :lol:

quickly
63 tempest was plain as hell in the 60's.. oit looked like every other car on the road... they made it a GTO

todays grand prix looks like every other car on the road.. frighteningly similar to the GTO

the GTO is the ultimate sleeper. thats the idea. its not out to be cool looking, or outrageous. its there to look like everything else on the road, only 2x as fast. the GTO will look cool in 2 years just like it did in the 1st gen. besides, as soon as they get the caddilac CTS frame under it (2-3 yrs.) and have it completely built in USA, the price will come down.

First of all they made the GTO a Tempest option in 1964, and it did not look like every other car on the road. GM didn't make the Holden Monaro a GTO because it looks like a Grand Am, which looks like every other car on the road. I don't think they had a 'sleeper' in mind either, even though most are glad it came out that way. And who said they are going to build it on a Cadillac CTS frame? GM only wants to make the GTO for 3 YEARS. That isn't a lot of time to put it on a new frame and start production of it here. If they did that, they would make it for more than 3 years, at least to make some profit. And the price won't come down much as long as there is a hefty V-8 and a GTO badge. What you see is what you get... It may evolve slightly, but the new GTO will be gone before you know it, assuming GM sticks to their word. Then some people will be wishing it was still here and some will be wishing they never made it.

While I understand what you're trying to say, I have to chime in that most classic muscle cars had less than 400 horsepower...and even fewer of them would if they measured horsepower at the rear wheel as opposed to the flywheel like they did back then.

My family collects Oldsmobiles, and even my father's 70 W-30 makes less than 400 horsepower. Granted, it does have 500 lbs-ft of torque and an incredible power curve with its long stroke 455. :p

Sorry, didn't want to seem pedantic. Glad to see there are some old-school types posting here. :lol:

Plus, the old cars were heavy because of the heavy medal and the big engines. If I recall correctly, most only offered 3 or 4 speed transmissions, too. So while a 400 horsepower monster from the 60s looks awesome and sounds awesome, most 350 horsepower cars from today will do just as well on the track - if not better.

Paradoxically, part of the appeal of the older muscle cars was how unbalanced they were...at least by modern standards, and the standards of contemporary European sports cars. A car would have an engine that was much too powerful for the rest of the vehicle. If you floored the accelerator without the car being pointed in a straight line, you were likely to break loose and go sideways. They take some skill to drive, and unless you are running straight drags, part of the challenge is to stay on top of all that power.

And most muscle cars today wear radials, so their roadholding was even worse with bias ply.

This is similar to debate on old vs. new 911. The old 911s could be a challenge to push at their limits, whereas the newer 996/911s are less eventful, and to some people, less interesting. But they are safer and generally faster.

You can never bring back the true GTO, it was American Muscle and there isnt anything better than American Muscle.

I am from Australia were they drive Monaros.
The Monaro was Australias first V8 coupe and quite a legend here in the late sixties and seventies. The release of the new monaro was given a warm welcome but unfurtunately it was just before the ricer/import thing came big here.
heaps of guys bag it out saying its to slow and plain and imports are the way to go.
Although many have this view the Monaro is hard to beat on the race track and strip but many try to ignore it, A recent 24 hour race finished with a Monaro coming first and second. Other cars racing included Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche but the Holdens maintaned lead throughout the entire 24 hours with ease.
The Monaro is a two door version of the Holden commodore wich is our popular choice of family car and taxi cabs. The Commodore has also been a succesful race car taking more wins at bathurst than any other car.
When Holdens were released back in 1948 they filled the gap in Australia between English and American cars. The American cars were spacious, smooth and powerful but used alot of fuel, handled bad on our roads and were unreliable in tough country conditions as well as a expensive price tag. On the other hand the english cars were handled good on rough dirt roads, were lite on fuel and cheap to buy but were squashy for an Aussie family, and to underpowered to cart them around. The styling of Holdens is like a cross between a vauxhal and a chevrolet. Styling has usually been a bit behind the US but seems to hold its style for longer probably due do being a little bit more basic in style. Holden quickly built a good name after its release due to its suitabillity to the average Australian family, it had more power and space than the English cars as well as better fuel economy and durability than its bigger Amercan sisters.
I dont know what it is like in the rest of the world but here a family sedan has pretty much always been a lot quicker than sports coupes available in the same price range in Australia.
Up until recently The holden has been the most popular choice for illegal street racing.
There are more performance parts for Holdens than any other make here and it has been like this since the 1950's.
I would imagine that once used monaros become more affordable to younger drivers that the V8 coupe will make its mark against the currently popular import car scene.
If you were to take a monaro out for a day, followed by a day of driving a Supra or Honda integra type R I doubt that you would choose any other than the monaro unless you are a die hard fuel economy enthusiest (Geek), no mater how much you love Japan.
Even though I have very little interest on post 1960 cars I see the Monaro as extremely under rated compared to imports.
I guess people who take their imports to track days would know what I mean.

The GTO Coming out this year.........Yes
The concept in the picture.............NO

I'll be blunt, GTO's were badass, and this one is just disgusting. For today’s technology I think for the money they could do much better performance wise and the styling is just horrid. This is one less buyer of this new "Muscle Car". :2cents:

Respectively speaking, this is not for people like you. I would really appreciate you refraining of making such comments on a vehicle that gave the japs the idea of what to do in cars in the first place.
Back on the 60's no japs where there? Why was that so?
Because we showed everyone how to build big bad automobiles.
Your import taste does not stand behind Chrysler's Hemis, Yenkos, CObras and the like of the era out there. So if you do not have anything good to say. Do not say it. Thanks.

it looks kinda funny and doesnt give it that muscle car feeling!

I am not sure is thaw you have in the picture is a GT500 but is gorgeous.
That is what a Muscle car should look like.

im scared guys i think they might use that f**king homosexual model on gto.com!NOOOOOOOO, are you guys sure that it will be that kick ass orange one or that pussy one on gto.com?help ccuz i was about to finally like pontiac, but if they use the gto.com one i wont like them anymore...the only ok part is the corvette engine and kind of on the interior but thats all :sly: :disappoin

I just checked the gto.com site and the car is gorgeous even on import terms(that is for the Acura person the other day).
It looks bald, aggresive. And interios styling is a well balance mix from European functionality and american heritage. The car is gorgeous.
If the specs are for real this is a really hevy contenders for the European HO vehicles. THis one looks really bad ass.

What pictures I've seen I have to agree it looks like there Sunbird or something .I saw were the power was suppost to be up there but is it I'm not going to drive something that I thinks is ugly or no cheap looking for pontiac ponys. Come on pontiac dosen't have any good looking car to me the only one they quit making and that was the trans am

Ok, I too am from Australia, and I must say that the styling on the GTO is a little bland. The Monaro over here actually has a different front to the GTO that will be taken over there. Holden's performance side ('HSV') makes much badder looking (in a good way) versions of the Monaro.

Here's a pict of the standard Monaro (notice the front)

http://users.tpg.com.au/jnfazack/Monaro_crop/Cnxt0007.jpg

And here's the HSV GTS Coupe (again a different front, but different from the normal Holden front too)

http://autozine.kyul.net/gallery/holden/Coupe.htm

(NOTE: The Grey GTO down the bottom of that page is not your GTO. Thats just another model of HSV Coupe.)

So as you can see, if you don't like the standard GTO look, then maybe the Holden or HSV stuff might be the go. Maybe there's even a niche market for importing the different fronts?

Oh, and we did have a supercharged 6 version of the Monaro, but that was dropped with the new model of Monaro. It appearently only held about 5% of the market.

I like the concept GTO much better than the proposed Monaro import. The Monaro just looks like a big Cavalier , albeit a Cavalier with a 350 Hp 5.7 , but still just a Cavalier :rolleyes: I won't be buying one anytime soon.

The new GTO is suppost to be built in limited numbers the first year so who ever wants one needs to put there name on the list but one thing I don't do is buy the first production year of any car give them time to work out the bugs and recalls.

I own a 1971 GTO Hardtop, with 400 small block, 3 speed atuomatic. Completely factory stock. My car just looks bad ass MEAN!!! Now, maybe this new GTO has some horsepower and is fast, but in my opinon it looks like every other little yuppie car out there!!!! I wouldn't take one if you gave to me. Actually, when we bought our 71, I offered my wife to by this new one if she wanted it. As soon as I showed her the picture, she started laughing and said "NO WAY!!!!, I want a real GTO, a 71, they just look mean!!!!" So I got on the web and found her a restored, Black w/ black int. 1971 Goat, and paid half the price for much more car!!!!! Anyway thats our opinion.

The new GTO is suppost to be built in limited numbers the first year so who ever wants one needs to put there name on the list but one thing I don't do is buy the first production year of any car give them time to work out the bugs and recalls.The Monaro line is by no means new , and I beleive this particular chassis has already been in production in Australia for a while. So the bugs should already be worked out. This is a new car to us here in the U.S. only , and not really THAT new , since it's using the corvette drivetrain.

I love the old goat never had chance to own one The old mopars was my passion but in todays auto I'm affraid that ford has me right now I have 2003 Cobra poor mans collecter but I get certificat and I have a low number built color and its paid and with 390 ponys right off the lot I don't think I'll be getting a GTO but thanks for the info I didn't really know that much about the new gto thats interesting who knows I might get one one day I had two chances at a trans-am and I walk away from it MY first car was Pontiac Bonneville Loved it.So I have a love for pontiac though they haven't come out with much in a while other than a little bit of supercharging. Sorry I just woke up and typing with one I shut did't mean to get wordy.

The new gto is a joke, a "muscle" car with 400 hp that only pulls off low 5s in 0-60 and 13+ in the quater mile? The lancer evo is only a turbo charged 4 cyl putting out around 280 hp and it can do the same times.

I just left the doctor office and was looking at the Motor Trend mag. and the HP was only in the mid 300's which is low and it looks like Chevolet Coursica I know I didn't spell it right you know that mid size chevy I think it was front wheel drive.No I don't think its going to be a good replacement of Pontiac's Trans AM with the good old LS-1 motor which was a sweet motor.

The new gto is a joke, a "muscle" car with 400 hp that only pulls off low 5s in 0-60 and 13+ in the quater mile? The lancer evo is only a turbo charged 4 cyl putting out around 280 hp and it can do the same times.

It's 350 horsepower, not 400 and the Lancer Evo is a much lighter car - especially since it uses a turbocharged, intercooled 4 cylinder instead of a big V8.

I just left the doctor office and was looking at the Motor Trend mag. and the HP was only in the mid 300's which is low and it looks like Chevolet Coursica I know I didn't spell it right you know that mid size chevy I think it was front wheel drive.No I don't think its going to be a good replacement of Pontiac's Trans AM with the good old LS-1 motor which was a sweet motor.

The new GTO does use the same LS-1 as was in the Trans AM. I'm pretty sure it's the same transmission, too.

If thats true then theres alot that can be done with aftermarket parts the LS-1 is capable of running good numbers or the track they where doing better time in some cases than the twin turboed cars I was heavy into the 300zx twin turbo seen for a while and they are capable of some big HP numbers mine was with some simple upgrades.

I realize the difference, my point is you can do the same thing to a 8 cyl engine. You cant get hyped about the preformance of a car, when it is outpreformed by a smaller, cheaper car. I mean how you can you call that a muscle car when they are going to start putting out 900+ hp cars stock? Cadilac already has one I beleave.

I don't know who you are your directing your reply to. I agree I dirve a 2003 Cobra SC pumping out over 400HP of course now I son't know if a stock WRX would put better time than my Cobra which is modified I would probly lay out a better 1/4 mile than a the WRX as I said my car stock was reted 390HP but now I'm well above that mark.Getting back to stocked cars in this months Hot Rod mag. ran a better 1/4 mile time than the Cobra the WRX is geared better than the Cobra. Now you can't go by magazine stats becauce they don't bring in reaction time per driver of each car which is a inportant part of a strip run and they don't count the wheel spin which will slow the time down and knowing a Cobra I bet you anything that the cobra smoked the tire at launch I can smoke mine with just a small stiff clutch release and the car will spin enough to what I call fish talling and thats not even trying. Sorry don't mean to make a long reply but anyway If you like the car buy it there will allways be someone with a faster car you could go broke trying to have the fastest car or buy what the Mags. times and what HP. stats. Alot of there HP is from the manufacter's stats which are fudged one way or the other like the Cobra ford says 390 but on a dyno the stock cobra has been showing over 400hp stock they do that to help keep the insurance rates down just like they have a pressure release valve which alot of us Cobra owners are bypassing or disconnecting it but they have it on there to lower the gas guzzler cost insted of it being 1000.00 dollar it would be around 1500.00 if they didn't have that relase valve on the supercharger. Man all I am trying to say is go with what you like not what it has I wouldn't drive a ugly car just because its got the most ponys in it. I love my Cobra I lovre the way it looks theres cars out there that are faster but I'm not going to sell it just because I had a little rice burner out run me. Cadilac had a show car with that kind of power but they aren't going to put it into production well thay do have one looks like and cost like those $ 200,000 Italian cars. I would love to have a ford Saleen 351sc but its sticker price is $100,000 way out of my reach. the word muscle car came from the early days of the Dodge Hemi's all the old big blocks thats what a muscle car is to start with and they stopped making them. But a muscle car is an American car I don't call or see a WRX a muscle car yes its fast but if dosen't have the tork well thats how I feel is that a muscle car has to be a Amercan V-8 but that might be my age showing.

I realize the difference, my point is you can do the same thing to a 8 cyl engine. You cant get hyped about the preformance of a car, when it is outpreformed by a smaller, cheaper car. I mean how you can you call that a muscle car when they are going to start putting out 900+ hp cars stock? Cadilac already has one I beleave.

I think you can make a good argument that the Lancer Evo is a better car. If I remember correctly, it is All Wheel Drive. It is amazingly fast, has great breaking (something crazy like 60mph to 0 in 110 feet) and supposedly it has superb handling too. It gets rave reviews. The two cars have similar amounts of interior space.

The GTO only has a few slight advantages. It has a decent interior, while the Evo is pretty much bare bottom interior. The GTO with the manual transmission gets slightly better gas mileage than the manual Evo. And maybe - I don't know, I'm just making a guess - it's easier to modify a 5.7 liter naturally aspirated pushrod V8 than an already heavily turbocharged and intercooled 2.0 liter inline DOHC 4.

On the other hand, as far as I know the only company that is actually putting a 900 horsepower vehicle into production is Volkswagen. They are resurrecting the old Bugatti brand with the Bugatti Veyron coming out next year. Costs 1.2 million, has something like 920 horsepower. Goes from 0-185 mph in less than 15 seconds. Cadillac had a 1000 horsepower concept car, but it isn't going into production. If you want to be cynical, it also as far as I know was never put on a dynometer in public so there probably isn't even proof that the concept car was really that powerful.

See theres a differant if I was looking at the EVO I would go ahead and get the WRX with 300hp. It has good reports and as I said in stock condition it made better time in the 1/4 mile than a 390hp ford cobra.I even looked at one but I just love the big tork and sound of a V-8 but thats my taste dosen't make it right or wrong. I just got out as I think I said before a 300zx twin turbo and turboed cars are not that hard to mod. Just a simple ECU upgrade will give you the most bang for your buck and there are allready a lot of after market parts for those cars. example the stock boost on my Z was around 9psi and with a simple ECU upgrade and a welding tip in the waste gate vac. line my bost went up to 15 and on cold days I could see 16 psi.

In response to Dan Neil's questions about opinions of the new vs old GTO -
You have to remember the original GTO was built during the cultural and sexual revolution of the 60's. Ask anyone who has ever owned a GTO from that period (and I have) and they will tell you that people just can't take their eyes off it. To drive one or leave one in a parking lot is like leaving a naked supermodel in the parking lot. People will stare at it, walk around it and look at it from every angle. When they finally walk away their heads are still turned toward it while they trip over curbs and shopping carts.
Seriously, can you picture anyone doing that over the new GTO/Holden Monaro? The new one has all the sex appeal of an overturned bathtub in a parking lot full of overturned bathtubs. It's not that people can't take their eyes off it, it's that they don't even see it. That's the first major difference between the two, and it is huge.
The other difference is related to the cultural revolution of the 60's. Music was extremely important then. With the GTO, the real music was what was coming from that 389 tri-power when you pushed the accelerator to the sweet spot where all three Rochesters kicked in. This was followed by you being shoved back into the seat while the speedometer needle climbed past 120 and started back around to zero. Anyone who's had this experience knows what I am talking about. Even the four barrel version Pontiac big block had this signature howl.
The LS1 small block Chevy is a fine engine, but the original song by Pontiac GTO, it just can't play.

I am glad to see a fast car produced by GM, but it is very plain... I hate the old school LS1, everyone thinks its more powerfull than its rated, but its not.. When i heard there was a new GTO coming out i would had never thought it would look the way it does, and when i first saw the pics i thought it was a grand prix.. Plus the fact that GM is using a foreign plateform kinda pisses me off.. Can't they come up with something decent themselves? They basically took a Australian car made in another country, and are trying to sell the same car here as a GTO.. Thats almost as bad as front wheel drive monte carlos and impalas...